Why does everyone hate USAviator?
Charles Troy Tripp
OK, not 'everyone', but why do I see all these threads that seem
dedicated to trashing this mag? I don't subscribe but I've picked it at
the newstand from time to time and it looks decent to me. So, what's
the problem?
Geoff Thistlethwaite
I'm not going to try to defend Jim Campbell on all the points brought up on
this board; however, as to Chuck S. being "Zoomed" I have to say that Mr.
Campbell was right when he stated that Chuck should treat his customers
better.
I helped a friend build a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, and the manuel and prints left
quite a bit to be desired(putting it mildly). Chuck said all the parts to
the kit were there and they weren't, when this was pointed out he call my
friend a liar, and it was only with repeated phone calls and pressure that
we were able to get all the parts that were paid for.
BTW Chuck, I know you will read this, and just so there is no mystery my
friends name is Quinn Ducharme of Opelousas La.
Once the plane was finished it seemed to have a trim problem, so Quinn
installed a trim tab and it's a good thing he did because at a fly-in he
pulled back on the stick and the flimsy attachment between the stick and the
elevator cables failed leaving him with no elevators at all. That trim tab
possibly saved his life if not the aircraft.
Several times I've read in us aviator where Mr. Campbell stated that he
thought the aircraft produced by Chuck were good that his only beef was in
customer service, this I know to be true first hand.
So if Campbell was right about Chuck is it possible that he could be right
about other matters?
Could you be the R. Brady of the powered parachute fame?
Seems there was a guy that had problems of the same nature as Chuck who was
selling powered parachutes.
Now as to why I would post this on this board...
My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it almost
always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented either see
that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act like
adolecent kids and attack the critic.
I think I see a pattern here on this news group......
BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court room....
as "happy miles" is doing, Of course a libel suit is a double edge sword, if
you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck .... you'd
have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and malicious....hmmm In
light of the forth comming NTSB report I don't think "happy" is gonna have
much of a chance.
Geoff Thistlethwaite
Richard Riley wrote in message <34ff5690...@news.loop.com>...
>Chuck S's "Zoomed" isn't on Deja News and I don't have it.. If anyone out
there
>in interface land has it stashed away, it's a good primmer for folks who
don't
>know the history.
>
>Charles, I'm sure there will be a LOT of answers and it's not a simple
topic.
>No one objects to the magazine per se, it's the person who
>publishes/edits/writes it that's the problem. It's a fine point, but
important.
>For example, Vicki Cruse occasionally contributes to the group, she's Jim's
ex
>wife and the ex-co-publisher of the magazine, and she's respected and liked
>here. Jamie Beckett used to work there, Ron Wanttaja was listed as a
>contributing editor, we don't hold them is any less esteem because of those
>youthful indiscretions.
>
>As for what is wrong with Mr. C, a good place to start is
>http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/se-4661.txt. Then follow with a Deja News
>search of R.A.H. with the keywords "Zoom" "Campbell" and "US Avitator".
But
>schedule yourself a few days to get through it all.
>
>
>Richard "The FBI should be here soon, I have milk and cookies out" Riley
>
Charles K. Scott
In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
"Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geof...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Now as to why I would post this on this board...
> My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
> newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
> States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
> editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
> I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it almost
> always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented either see
> that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act like
> adolecent kids and attack the critic.
> I think I see a pattern here on this news group......
> BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court room....
> as "happy miles" is doing, Of course a libel suit is a double edge sword, if
> you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck .... you'd
> have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and malicious....hmmm In
> light of the forth comming NTSB report I don't think "happy" is gonna have
> much of a chance.
>
> Geoff Thistlethwaite
Geoff, you might want to do a little of what your father did for his
newspaper and research the story. There is one heck of a lot behind
the storm of controversy that is Jim Campbell. Happy Miles can sue
because he has the money to do so, very few of the people he maligned
in public print had the means for rebuttle. This forum became the only
means possible when you consider that Campbell was sending his opinions
to thousands, well maybe many hundreds; among other things his
circulation statistics are being questioned.
Some of the people who reply negatively to Campbell threads were once
people who believed in him and the good fight. It usually didn't take
very long for them to find out how wierd things were around him and
left. Some of the people who left suffered very strange stalking like
incidents. Naturally they are a little bitter about the experience.
Want to get an eye opener? Try talking to his ex wife.
But most of all, do some research before you comment.
Corky Scott
GooberB
>From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 11:16 EST
>I'm not going to try to defend Jim Campbell on all the points brought up on
>this board; however, as to Chuck S. being "Zoomed" I have to say that Mr.
>Campbell was right when he stated that Chuck should treat his customers
>better.
>I helped a friend build a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, and the manuel and prints left
>quite a bit to be desired(putting it mildly). Chuck said all the parts to
>the kit were there and they weren't, when this was pointed out he call my
>friend a liar, and it was only with repeated phone calls and pressure that
>we were able to get all the parts that were paid for.
>BTW Chuck, I know you will read this, and just so there is no mystery my
>friends name is Quinn Ducharme of Opelousas La.
>Once the plane was finished it seemed to have a trim problem, so Quinn
>installed a trim tab and it's a good thing he did because at a fly-in he
>pulled back on the stick and the flimsy attachment between the stick and the
>elevator cables failed leaving him with no elevators at all. That trim tab
>possibly saved his life if not the aircraft.
>Several times I've read in us aviator where Mr. Campbell stated that he
>thought the aircraft produced by Chuck were good that his only beef was in
>customer service, this I know to be true first hand.
>So if Campbell was right about Chuck is it possible that he could be right
>about other matters?
<<<<<Major Snipage>>>>
>Geoff Thistlethwaite
Well Geoff,
If you're not here to defend Campbell, why did you post your reply on this
thread?
I do not knoweverything about your friends problems, but as my Dad used to say,
"there are three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth."
You wouldn't be the same Geoff Thistlewaite that had a letter to the editor in
USAviator Nov/Dec (the famous Oshkosh Issue)? You were prasing Campbell to the
heavens and re-telling the story of your wife's cocaine problem.
The only question I have is, "did you get your two copies of the Sportplane
Resource Guide?" No one else has.
Service is the eyes of the beholder.
Goober
Vernon1950
As I have stated in this forum many times, the 1st Amendment is a double edged
sword, it slices both ways. When used as it was written and intended, it is a
masterful piece of work. However, when abused, as Mr. Campbell is doing and has
done many, many times in his publication, it will slice your throat. I'm sorry
to say that Zoomer's throat is heavily exposed.
I too was a friend and a regular contributor to the magazine, as was Kas
Thomas, Don Parsons and many others. I was also for a great deal of time a
strong defender of Mr. Campbell. It is a sad state of affairs that I can no
longer be in his camp. On a personal level, I wish him expedient treatment for
his mental health. On a business level, Mr. Campbell without aid from
terrorists, clandestine operatives, and others, all by himself destroyed what
could have been the best sport aviation publication to hit the mail box and
newsstands in at least two decades. He is brilliant, he had a sense of
propriety that got lost in his own self deluded world. He has personally, in my
humble view, worked harder to destroy the rights given under the 1st Amendment
than any individual in the publishing business I have ever observed.
BTW, I have spent my life in the news business, just in case you're curious. I
strongly believe in quality balanced journalism. The story, if written in a
balanced manner will always tell the consumer everything he needs to know. It's
unfortunate, that these old school standards are ignored so readily in almost
all journalism products on the market today.
Vernon Barr
RobertR237
In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff Thistlethwaite"
<geof...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Now as to why I would post this on this board...
>My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
>newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
>States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
>editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
>I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it almost
>always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented either see
>that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act like
>adolecent kids and attack the critic.
>I think I see a pattern here on this news group......
>BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court room....
>as "happy miles" is doing, Of course a libel suit is a double edge sword, if
>you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck .... you'd
>have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and malicious....hmmm In
>light of the forth comming NTSB report I don't think "happy" is gonna have
>much of a chance.
>
>Geoff Thistlethwaite
>
>
The first amendment seems to be the favorite excuse used by everyone in the
publishing and broadcast media for saying anything about anybody with total
immunity. It is a freedom which I personally cherish and was willing to lay
down my life to defend. It also seems to be the first thing those same people
forget when the critical light is turned around.
The true question with regards to USAviator and Jim Campbell is one of
responsibility and credibility. Once I have caught someone such as Jim
Campbell, USAviator, 60-Minutes, or any other public media outlet in a lie, the
total credibility of the organization is in question from that point on. As
far as I am concerned, the printed and broadcast media has a greater
responsibility to ensure that what they publish is accurate than anybody else.
If the editors, publishers, and broadcasters fail to accept the
responsibilities along with the constitional rights then they diserve to be
critized. If that raises your hakles then I say too bad. Get Over It!
Bob Reed
Alan Staats
>Now as to why I would post this on this board...
>My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
>newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
>States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
>editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
...i see. it raises your hackles when someone hides behind the skirt
of the first amendment to publish whatever they like about a person or
company; to call employers, relatives, and friends and defame a
person in the name of "sport aviation?"
mr. thistlewaite, all i can say is you learned some things from your
father, i.e. the meaning of the first amendment. what you did not
learn is that there is a responsibility attached to that right. in
your case, the responsibility lies in not having done your homework.
i have never, in my 26 years of journalism, seen anyone who tramples
on the first amendment more than mr. campbell. there are literally
dozens of people on this newsgroup alone who, for simply stating their
opinions have been threatened with lawsuits, their employers have been
called, their relatives have been called, they have been demeaned in
print and public forum, all because they had the temerity to express
an opinion.
you sound like a farily staunch supporter of mr. campbell. i, too,
was at one time. i even worked for the man. however, having had
first hand insight as to his modus operandi, i could not motivate
myself to do the kind of job i should have, and left his employ.
the ensuing months were filled with threats to me, calls to the
aforementioned, and finally, a threat of physical harm on myself and
more importantly, my children. do i know for certain that the latter
threat came from mr. campbell? no. have i received one since i
reported the matter to authorities? no? did i receive one before, or
since? no. my gut feeling on the matter is obvious. there are at
least two people who know who sent it. i am one of them.
personally, i think you are a supporter of mr. campbell for a very
good reason: it fits your (and your friend's) agenda to have an ally
in whatever fight you have with CGS Aviation.
the saddest part in the whole Campbell/USAviator saga is that such a
publication is needed, and the chance to truly be what he envisions
himself and his magazine to be was indeed firmly within his grasp.
however, personal problems, an ego larger than life (fueled by larger
than life tales), and an extremely self centered and abrasive
personality have more or less destroyed whatever credibility the
magazine may have ever posessed.
and that is the point of publishing, first amendment notwithstanding.
credibility, shaped by objectivity.
and while your hackles are raised, by the way, you might want to take
a quick look into what mr. campbell says about his contemporaries (for
which comment i apologize to what i consider the legitimate aviation
press for lumping them in with mr. campbell) in mr. campbell's world
they are, in his publically expressed opinion, driven by kow-towing to
advertisers. this is, in my opinion, a cheap shot that attempts to
undermine both the credibility and good efforts of these magazines
while aggrandizing his own feeble effort. while i will make no
judgement on the editorial policies of the magazines he maligns, i
will say this: i haven't seen them taking subscriptions two days
after filing bankruptcy, nor have i seen a bankruptcy creditors list
that includes virtually every vendor the magazine ever had.
make your own decisions, mr. thistlewaite. that's what freedom is all
about. but make informed decisions.
staats
Ron Pearlman
Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote:
> Could you be the R. Brady of the powered parachute fame?
> Seems there was a guy that had problems of the same nature as Chuck
> who was
> selling powered parachutes.
>
> Now as to why I would post this on this board...
> My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
> newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the
> United
> States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks
> on an
> editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
> I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it
> almost
> always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented
> either see
> that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act
> like
> adolecent kids and attack the critic.
> I think I see a pattern here on this news group......
> BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court
> room....
> as "happy miles" is doing, Of course a libel suit is a double edge
> sword, if
> you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck ....
> you'd
> have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and
> malicious....hmmm In
> light of the forth comming NTSB report I don't think "happy" is gonna
> have
> much of a chance.
>
> Geoff Thistlethwaite
As Bill Robie pointed out many years ago, Mr. Campbell has an incredible
influence on his readers. Not only do they adopt his views on aircraft
such as the CGS Hawk and the Paracender, they even copy his writing
style.
Mr. Campbell's writing is rife with ellipsis, the three dots that
indicate that something has been removed from quoted material. But Mr.
Campbell uses them in a uniquely. Normally there is no blank space
between the ellipsis and the following text. Mr. Campbell uses them
with a blank space between the last dot and the following word, and he
uses them in place of a paragraph break, as a transition between
separate topics.
This is the way that Mr. Thistlethwaite uses them in the text above. It
is also curious that Mr. Thistlethwaite has never posted to the Usenet
before. Is it possible that Mr. Thistlethwaite is yet another of Mr.
Campbell's personalities, like Nuthe...@aol.com, ReblWOClu@AOL and
the like?
Of course not. Mr. Campbell's mental illness, documented in the
transcript his hearing (Referenced in an earlier post, at
http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/se-4661.txt.) surely must have been
treated years ago. Otherwise he would be exhibiting the symptoms that
the doctors described then, such as telling inflated tales of his own
prowess, not paying his bills and threatening people who don't do
exactly what Mr. Campbell wants them to do.
I'm also curious as to how Mr. Thistlethwaite gained access to the NTSB
report on the Adventure Air accident prior to it's release. Mr.
Campbell has claimed that he's working with the NTSB on the
investigation (a claim the NTSB disputes, and one which lead to Mr.
Miles suit against Mr. Campbell) but these thing are normally kept
confidential until their publication.
Ron P.
Charles Troy Tripp
Well, I read all the responces and I'm no closer to understanding what the
problem is. Someone care to enlighten me without a lesson in freedom of the
press?
rleo...@wizrealm.com
In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
the net. Anybody else see any simularity in "his" writing style to the
style of the person he is ostensibly defending ? ...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Craig Wall
rleo...@wizrealm.com wrote:
> Hmmm... An author profile on Geoff shows this to be his only contribution to
> the net. Anybody else see any simularity in "his" writing style to the
> style of the person he is ostensibly defending ? ...
It's popular diversionary tactic these days....check out the roto-clone on the
rotorcraft newsgroup and the PRA conference....
Craig (..and they ain't fooling anyone anymore..) Wall
Badwater Bill
>>
>> Geoff Thistlethwaite
>>
>Hmmm... An author profile on Geoff shows this to be his only contribution to
>the net. Anybody else see any simularity in "his" writing style to the
>style of the person he is ostensibly defending ? ...
>
>Ray rleo...@wizrealm.com
BBBWWWAAAAHHHAAAAA! What a dork, Zzzzzz is. As if all of you
smart people couldn't figure him out...
Thistelwhisstielsews! What a name! How in the hell could any normal
person even come up with that one?
Jesus Jim. If you need some money for therapy I'll send you a couple
hundred.
I always told you folks I felt sorry for him.
BWB
Badwater Bill
>Charles Troy Tripp wrote:
>
>> OK, not 'everyone', but why do I see all these threads that seem
>> dedicated to trashing this mag? I don't subscribe but I've picked it at
>> the newstand from time to time and it looks decent to me. So, what's
>> the problem?
>
Give it up Chuck. You need to lurk for awhile. Period!
BWB
rleo...@wizrealm.com
In article <6dqgie$hh6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
rleo...@wizrealm.com wrote:
> Hmmm... An author profile on Geoff shows this to be his only contribution to
> the net. Anybody else see any simularity in "his" writing style to the
> style of the person he is ostensibly defending ? ...
>
> Ray rleo...@wizrealm.com
P.S. Forgot to mention the appearance of a lockstep belief that
the first amendment is supposed to protect an editor in
anything he wants to say, but not protect any other individual
that publicly disagrees with said editor.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
RBucha7924
In his defense, I would have to say that "in
my experience" (ahem) Mr. Campbell is far
less abrasive in person than he is in text.
My experience w/ him was only that of
standing next to him at an airshow.
When I discovered who he was I just hung
around a while to see why I (and many
others) had a difficult time enduring him.
He came off as a guy who might walk up to
Chuck Yeager, stick out his hand and say,
"Hi Chuck, It sure is exciting to meet
important people, you must be thrilled."
After several minutes of having just about
as much as I could enjoy,
I walked off w/o introducing myself.
Appeared a little to full of himself for
my liking. Of course this is only one man's opinion.
tom c
> Jesus Jim. If you need some money for therapy I'll send you a couple
> hundred.
>
> I always told you folks I felt sorry for him.
>
> BWB
>
BWB,
How about sending me a couple of hundred bucks for therapy. Of course for
me therapy is spelled flying :)
Tom Cooper
Tony P.
Charles:
Well, if you don't want to do the research, the major problem is that
Mr. Campbell describes himself as the most credible, authoritative and
experiences "fly-writer" in the world, and the primary consumer advocate
of sport aviation (see his blurbs on the Sportplane Resource Guide page,
which, incidentally, has been at the printers now since last summer, per
his pages). But in reality the evidence shows that he has not
credibility at all. Zero. None. The evidence shows a pattern of
chronic fabrication.
I will stick only to the indisputable stuff: Start with the
adjudication of mental illness in 1980 for chronic lying and posing as a
physician, fabricating credentials, etc. (read the transcript at
http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/se-4661.txt), then add the evidence of a
dozen former employees and writers (look above at Vernon Barr, Jamie
Beckett, for example), ex-fiances and ex-wife, former business partners
(shareholders and otherwise, like Don Jones, Ted Aggelis, Ruthann and
Conrad Eaddy, Cal and Martha Anderson) and others. Then look at the
hundreds o fthousands of dollars in unpaid creditors, including a string
of printers going back to 1993, the Boy and Girls Clubs of Lakeland
(unpaid for food at Sun & Fun until just before the next Sun $ Fun and
after a lawsuit). Lawsuit after lawsuit, and always somebody else to
blame. It goes on and on.
Then add the fact that he put the company publishing US Aviator in
bankruptcy on July 10, 1997 and immediately went to Arlington and sold
subscriptions to the magazine. I won't say more there than the
undisputed facts, because there is litigation in the bankruptcy court on
this and I am involved as an attorney. I can't comment on the subject
of litigation except to say that it exists and involves who owns the
magazine itself and other assets. Then look at the number of issues he
has delivered since his subscription drive for this monthly magazine in
September, 1997 (is it three?) And the number of subscriptions he has
just gone on selling at Sun & Fun, OshKosh, Copperstate, etc. Then
there's the SRG, due out in Summer, 1996 but still not out, though most
advertisers paid back then. Etc. etc. etc.
I guess it's worth the flack to point you in the right directio, so you
don't end up as benighted as I did for as long.
Tony Pucillo
"Castigat ridendo mores" <laughter succeeds where lecturing
won't>
Reply to: <to...@pucillo.com>
[I speak only for myself unless I say otherwise; one personality is
quite enough, thank you.]
Tony P.
But Geoff:
Weren't you sticking up for His Zoomness and trashing his adversaries
long before you ever mentioned this CGS stuff? Is that a coincidence?
I'll admit that the tenor of your current post is a bit more temperate
than the one's I've endured from you in the past, but it doesn't change
the breathless praise you heaped upon him in your letters or the abuse
you piled on his adversaries (as perceived by him, at least) here.
Might that have influenced your view of CGS, knowing of this dispute?
It is VERY hard to acknowledge that one has been stupidly, naively and
embarrassingly wrong, as I can attest firsthand on this subject.
And, BTW, have we heard from the friend, or are you only dissatisfied
on his behalf. Has he posted anything, made any complaints or otherwise
raised this, or are you making a point in defense of your personal views
here "on his behalf?"
Pardon my cynicism, Geoff, but recalling your previous posts, I have
some doubt as to your objectivity even if the namecalling has stopped.
Tony P.
Charles:
I suggest you do a Dejanews search. The comments by Ron Wanttaja are
probably the most balanced. Of course, I think mine are as well, but
since I have been denominated, in effect, the Great Satan by his
Zoomness, you won't believe that unless you go 'way back to the
beginning when I was his staunchest defender around here.
Happy reading, it's an amazing story.
Tony P.
Regarding Mr. Thistlethwaite:
Well, Geoff either exists or is a fairly long-term fantasy. I don't
discount either. He has a consistent self-described history, even if
his email address has changed (lives in Louisiana, per letters and
posts). It's hard to tell whether people are simply emulating the
Zoomish style, due to their awestruck adulation, or it's simply him
wishing. This writer HAS seemed to emulate Zoomish punctuation (the
misused ellipses) and some of his terminology is suspect (see his
published letter: "THEY COULDN'T TAKE MY DREAMS" "the pain and blow to
my self confidence took two years to recover from. "... I've met and
married a wonderful, smart and beautiful woman," etc. etc.) I thought I
recalled a fairly inarticulate rant last year with this name, which was
at the time suspected of being another one from the Great Pretender, and
indeed turned one up, directed at Chuck Slusarczyk and supporting the
Zoomlet. From its tone, it was clearly either a Zoom windup toy (primed
by the Web page and possibly one of his "go get 'em" messages) or a
figment. I also had an exchange with him, if I recall correctly, and
his comments were similarly gratuitously personal and unpleasant. You
may have missed him if you assumed his email address hadn't changed; it
was net-connect.net or something similar, not ATT.net.
Then "his" letter was published in the "sort of" Dec./Jan. USA (Nov./
Dec.) issue. It's one of those breathless "thank you, Zoom, we need
you" things we all cringe at (because we were similarly deluded once).
Turns out per his published letter that Mr. T. tragically "lost his
wife" in '93 to crack cocaine. Well, no she's okay, and not lost, just
not with him anymore (not to make light of that, simply to point out the
similarity to the Zoom-assumed roles occasionally arising, tragic loss
of wife, etc.; possibly evoked by the long Zoom-whine he was responding
to about loss of life's love, etc. Melodrama, anyone?)
Anyway, here it gets a bit interesting. There are a half-dozen posts
by Mr. T., almost all relating to his KOLB FIRESTAR II, WHICH HE IS
SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLETING REAL SOON. He plans to register it with the
FAA (wonder what that number would be? Not 767, I'm sure.)
Now in tracking down our Mr. "Kolber," I find that the header is
obviously both bogus and the work of a fairly practiced Internet sneak.
First, his header address is Sprynet, but the actual origin is msn.net
(Microsoft Net), from a different geographic region (moswest).
Searching for other posts originating from that URL (outgoing line) in
the same time period, I find several test posts at about the same time
(with a phony "time" entry of 00:00 GMT) by "No...@nowhere.com."
Similar tests periodically by this person convince me that he is simply
smart enough to check his own headers with test posts after changing his
Identity info, before posting under a phony name. Must have goofed
once. I then find posts posing as a gay Hispanic escort, a SPAMMED
pyramid chain letter(with names), a "computer customer" post which is
clearly phony and appears to be self-laudatory of a business, real or
imaginary (a computer outfit with suspiciously low prices posted, with
the endorsement clearly coming from the same source. Are there even
computers? Who knows?). There are certain consistencies which lead me
to suspect this is the same person and that I know who this is, under
two different "legitimate" names as well as the nonsense names. They
also suggest a pattern of very weird impostures, if I'm correct, but I'm
not yet certain enough to say so publicly.
Does it matter? I never worry too much whether these things are the
Zoomlet himself or just one of his dupes. As I've said many times
"Garbage in, garbage out." If you are told a pack of lies and believe
them, you will behave as intended. There's only one ultimate source of
this behavior even when the pawns don't yet realize what they are. If he
has so buffaloed some poor soul as to make him a proxy, that fool is as
much a victim as those he attacks. Alternate realities can be both
communicable and dangerous.
Anyway, look at the content of the two "Kolber" messages. Whoever
originated them (GT, the GP or some other dupe), they make sense in only
one context. They are directed at two different persons with nothing in
common except that they are perceived as adversaries by the Great
Pretender. BWB and Bob Reed have both publicly challenged Campbell, and
this poster now attacks them in suspiciously Zoomish language (who else
"peruses" the newsgroup?) Bruce Frank -- whose position on The GP has
been quite low-key to the point where his criticism of Campbell was
apparently noticed by nobody BUT the Zoomlet (who sent him the usual
"why pick on me" greetings) -- on this occasion merely questioned the
attack on Adventure Air situation and received a meaningless and
personal attack in response.
Now if one wanted to be even more speculative, the fellow who started
the gratuitous Adventure Air thread originated with connect-net.
Meanwhile, Thistlethwaite, formerly of Connect-net, now pops up from
ATT.net where we've seen previous Zoomish "popups" and here comes a new
one from HIS ISP. (I haven't bothered to check the history on this
fellow.) It almost makes you think that somebody is maintaining a
series of different ISP accounts just to play games with, or repeatedly
opening "instant" ones. Meanwhile, they tell me there is a new clone
over in rotorcraft. It will never end.
Anybody who wants to see the Kolber-related stuff, let me know. Use
only To...@pucillo.com, even if you see idt.net pop up here (I'm just
downloading last mail shreds, painfully slowly).
Dave DeWinter
Tony,
Ever see the movie, "Multiplicity"? Maybe the Zoomer had himself
cloned with each clone being a clone of a clone. Just think of how
twisted the clone would be after a few rounds. Hell, the first one
would be bad enough. Anyway, that's what I think has happened.
Gotta go, time for another beer.
--
Keep em Spinning,
Dave DeWinter
*******************************************************
Visit my Web Page here http://www.mindspring.com/~rv6dd
DAlexan424
Hey, Here's one I got from my Right Wing Conspiracy Group. It came packaged
with the Kennedy Skiing accident report: the one that notes that a second tree
was involved.
Flash! Zoom Campbell and Jim Bede have never been seen in public together.
Coincidence?
Where are Sculley and Mulder when you really need them?
Dale Alexander
Velocity 173 RGE
dpi...@erolsxx.com
> On Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:36:25 -0800, in <35013F...@magg.net>,
> "Tony P." <ae...@magg.net> wrote:
> >
> >I suggest you do a Dejanews search. The comments by Ron Wanttaja
> >are probably the most balanced. Of course, I think mine are as well, but
> >since I have been denominated, in effect, the Great Satan by his
> >Zoomness, you won't believe that unless you go 'way back to the
> >beginning when I was his staunchest defender around here.
> >
>
> Richard Riley wrote:
>
> Tony! I thought I was the Great Satan! Did I get traded again?
> Why doesn't somebody tell me these things!
Richard,
In matters of religion on RAH, nobody tells anybody anything. Not long ago
I was nominated for ArchBishop and no one told me either until after
it happened! :)
Pastor Dave
Teri Brady
Dear Geoff
That must be the ultimate insult! To be compared to "R Brady"!
Another example of Campbell's yellow journalism. Sorry to hear you've
believed it all, hook, line and sinker.
Mrs. R Brady
Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Ronald James Wanttaja
In article <35018e90....@news.loop.com>,
Richard Riley <ber...@nospam.seesig> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:36:25 -0800, in <35013F...@magg.net>, "Tony P."
><ae...@magg.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I suggest you do a Dejanews search. The comments by Ron Wanttaja are
>>probably the most balanced. Of course, I think mine are as well, but
>>since I have been denominated, in effect, the Great Satan by his
>>Zoomness, you won't believe that unless you go 'way back to the
>>beginning when I was his staunchest defender around here.
>>
>
>somebody tell me these things!
Heck, figure this out, quick! Campbell says I'm a devil worshipper... I
gotta know whether to ship the goat to California or Florida!
Ron "Hello, UPS....?" Wanttaja
want...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
Charles Troy Tripp
My name is not Chuck, I've lurked for quite a while without making headway, and
your post is about as enlightening as a book of wet matches.
JStricker
Ron,
Don't fool around, send it to Pink Knee Ville. After we're done worshipping
whatever it is we are supposed to worship with a goat (I suggest a good, red
wine) we sacrifice and barbecue it. Besides, It will save JRJ the trouble
of mowing around the hangar. Goats eat a lot of grass you know.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Ronald James Wanttaja wrote in message <6dt1dp$9lp$1...@halcyon.com>...
Bruce A. Frank
Your impressions of Jim when meeting him in person are accurate. He
certainly comes across as a personable individual, east to talk to and
knowledgable. After all, Ms Vickey married him. If that public persona
were the same presented in email, print, and other sites on the net,
we'd all love him. But, it is not and many of those here don't.
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding
While trying to find the time to finish mine.
dpi...@erolsxx.com
>>> Richard Riley wrote:
>>>
>>> Tony! I thought I was the Great Satan! Did I get traded again?
>>> Why doesn't somebody tell me these things!
> > dpi...@erolsXX.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >Richard,
> >
> >In matters of religion on RAH, nobody tells anybody anything. Not long ago
> >I was nominated for ArchBishop and no one told me either until after
> >it happened! :)
> >
> >Pastor Dave
> >
Richard Riley wrote:
>
>Yeah, I know the story. I missed one service of the Church of the Supreme
>Aviator and found out they'd made me Pontiff pro tem. Now the Silent Martyr
>is nagging me all the time to perform some miracle for her. I've got to remind
>her that she's the SILENT martyr soon.
She wants to see a miracle? Tell her you'll make her disappear! By the way,
is this the First Martyr or is this Martyr Number Two?
Pastor Dave
Bill Berle
Great Satan?, poor little goats barbecued?, and the cataclysmic battle
over worshipping definitely the wrong savior?
Well, it sounds like you guys have been playing the King "actual ATC
communications" tapes backwards again...
What's next, posters of Marilyn Manson on the hangar walls?
Bill Berle
Alan Staats
On 7 Mar 1998 09:15:45 GMT, rbuch...@aol.com (RBucha7924) wrote:
...snip
>Appeared a little to full of himself for
>my liking.
there is another word for "himself" that he was full of, mr. bucha.
just a thought, mind you.
staats
Carl A. Johansson
Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote:
>
>
> Now as to why I would post this on this board...
> My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
> newspaper,
Geoff, could you please Identify this newspaper by name and location (as
well as year). Being somewhat of a "press history buff" I would like to
add this info to my files. Also can you give me a resource that
validates this claim?? you know -- independant proof of this statement
in a credible source???
I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
> States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
> editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
Being a scholar of the US constitution you, above all others, should
recognize that what you characterize as "personal attacks" are also
protected by the first amendment. I assume that you just temporarily
forgot that 1st amendment protections pertain to all US citizens, not
just selected "publishers or editors" with whom you happen to agree
with. If, in fact, these responses are "personal Attacks" and can be
shown to be " both untrue and malicious" then corrective measures can
be initiated by the person so harmed.
You yourself state "Of course a libel suit is a double edge sword"
So I don't understand why you are upset or dismayed that some are
seeking that remedy against Zoom in court, while at the same time you
are defending Zoom, who is constantly threatening various individuals
with the same tool which you aparently are upset by.
Please, in the tradition of your father and all oldtime newsmen I ask
you to be consistant. If threatening a publisher with a lawsuit is a
direct attack and slanderous, why isn't a publisher threatening the same
action to a private citizen considered to be the same offense.???
> I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it almost
> always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented either see
> that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act like
> adolecent kids and attack the critic
You are absolutely and positively correct here. And Zoom is the
embodiment of the "knowing it is true, act like adolecent kids and
attack the critic." portion of the statement.
Make your dad proud - go out and look at the evidence - a large body of
which has been displayed here (backed up by original sources) Come up
with good solid unimpeachable sources which can be independantly
verified to back your views, present credible evidence, which can be
independantly verified, which contradicts the previously presented
evidence Then present that information like a good newsman - try to
accurately present the cases of both sides of the issue, and allow the
reader to make their own decision based on the facts which you present.
Anything less from a person with your background should be relegated to
the "National Enquirer" school of journalism.
Give us facts, not your whiney "don't trash my hero" crap. And if your
validation of your "expertise" is that your dad was a publisher, then
you should adhere by the same set of rules and ethics attached to your
"professional validation".
> BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court room....
> as "happy miles" is doing,
> you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck
Do you know for a fact that he has descided not to pursue this matter???
.... you'd
> have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and malicious....
so your defense of Cambell is that he can lie because the proof of
maliciousness is so difficult??
hmmm In
> light of the forth comming NTSB report I don't think "happy" is gonna have
> much of a chance.
Maybe so, but I wonder do you have a direct line to David Starr
Jordan, is that where you have apparently recieved "leaked" info about
an unpublished NTSB report. When my brother died in an aircraft
accident they wouldn't tell me anything of substance about the
investigation , just sent me as copy after it was made public. Shit I
wish I would have known you were so well connected , you could have
given me the inside scoop and I could have sued the manufacturers before
they left the US.
>
--
Carl Johansson, Chief Yahoo/Gonzo Biologist
Midway, Utah
"Anything I can do - you can do better"
Avid Mark IV N2114N
Ronald James Wanttaja
I'm going to save a bit of bandwidth and answer two posters in this one
message.
In article <34FF4F58...@mindspring.com>,
Charles Troy Tripp <ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>OK, not 'everyone', but why do I see all these threads that seem
>dedicated to trashing this mag? I don't subscribe but I've picked
>it at the newsstand from time to time and it looks decent to me.
>So, what's the problem?
The fundamental issue is the truthfulness of the Publisher/Editor-in-
Chief of the magazine. Eighteen years ago, he was such an
uncontrollable liar that it led to a diagnosis of a personality
disorder. Some people, including myself, see strong similarities
between his behavior then (as documented in Federal Record) and his
behavior now. I posted summary of the earlier court action a few
months back, with specific comparisons between his behavior as
documented in the NTSB record and his statements on
his web page and in the magazine. You might look it up on Dejanews.
Having an investigative reporter with a history of lying is bad enough.
But make that reporter his own editor AND his own publisher, and you
have a recipe for disaster.
The two sides of the debate can be roughly split as follows: On one
side, you have people who have worked FOR Campbell or in the same
industry long enough to observe him. On the other side, you have folks
who have only read his magazine, or met him once at a Fly-In.
In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I helped a friend build a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, and the manuel and prints
>left quite a bit to be desired(putting it mildly). Chuck said all the
>parts to the kit were there and they weren't, when this was pointed
>out he call my friend a liar, and it was only with repeated phone
>calls and pressure that we were able to get all the parts that were
>paid for.
>So if Campbell was right about Chuck is it possible that he could be
>right about other matters?
Like, for instance, that "Terrorists" caused the destruction of Airdale
Press? That he moved the headquarters of his magazine out of its large
airport office to his own small apartment because it was a "more
defendable" location, and NOT because the city evicted USA for non-
payment of rent? Or like just last January, when he claimed that the
NTSB "tasked" him to perform the "initial investigation" of a homebuilt
accident...which the NTSB Regional Director has since denied?
Campbell once gave a negative recommendation about a company. I
personally know a builder who had the same problems Campbell reported.
We agree as far as that company goes.
But without any similar personal experience, how do I dare believe him
in regards to any other? How do I know if there have been legitimate
beefs against the company, as opposed to Campbell having a personal
disagreement with its owner? Is the suspected company indeed throwing
any semblance to good customer relations to the winds...or did they
merely stop advertising in US AVIATOR, a common denominator in the CGS,
Adventure Air, Flightworks, Parascender, Carlson, and who knows how
many other cases?
Are there THAT many more complaints against CGS than against companies
like, say, Quicksilver?
The only one who knows is James R. Campbell. The "Zoomed" posting
referred to by another poster was Chuck Slusarzik's version of events.
The negative coverage of CGS, according to Chuck, started AFTER he quit
advertising in US AVIATOR magazine. Campbell kept running his ad and
billing him. When Chuck protested the negative coverage started.
But let's compare US AVIATOR's coverage of CGS to its coverage of
another company. The president and chief designer of this company
designed a light plane that went into production in the 1960s and was
produced until about 1980.
It has the highest fatality rate in its class.
He went on to design a small homebuilt. He accepted deposits from
THOUSANDS of potential builders. He then announced that the homebuilt
would also be a certified production airplane, and again, thousands of
dollars were taken in deposits.
The company went bankrupt in the late 70s. The company had never got
the airplane working right.
Out of desperation, some builders went on to complete their partial
kits on their own. Many tried to fly them.
This homebuilt design accrued a fatality rate of ONE MILLION PER
HUNDRED THOUSAND HOURS. Legend has it that only one man was ever able
to fly the original design without crashing...and he was the company
test pilot.
A modified version, with a longer set of wings, turned out to be much
safer. But the airplane is one of the least crashworthy in the
homebuilt fleet (small pusher, pilot sits practically on the belly
skin). Crash = Serious injury (usually to the back) or death.
So, in the late 80s/early 90s, the same designer has a new company. A
homebuilt *supersonic* jet. During a demonstration flight at Reno, the
vertical tail suffered a structural failure. The company designed a
strengthening mod, which was included when the rights to the design was
sold to another company.
The vertical stabilizer of the new company's "supersonic" plane failed
at 380 knots, killing the test pilot.
The NTSB determined the cause was "...due to inadequate substantiation
by the designer." In other words, the designer didn't properly
determine the aerodynamic loads on the tail. Another of these
airplanes crashed, again killing the pilot.
The current score: Four planes built, two fatal crashes.
While this was going on, the designer's NEW new company had a hot new
propeller-powered two-seat homebuilt design. They started a marketing
blitz, hauling mockups to the big airshows and collecting deposits.
Big change this time, though...the deposits would actually be put into
an escrow account to protect the buyers.
The airplane crashed on its first flight.
Details from the company waffled. Builders grumbled. Rosy press
reports were issued. Then little clues started coming out: For
instance, the airplane's CG had been too far back EVEN WITH 170 POUNDS
OF LEAD IN THE NOSE. The airplane would be rebuilt...with changes to
the landing gear and to the wing position. This was a kit ready for
market?
The company entered financial difficulties. Then it turned out that
the money in the buyer's "escrow" account HAD BEEN SPENT.
While all this has been going on, Chuck Slusarzik had been delivering
airplanes since the mid '70s. He apparently had a problem in the '80s
when ultralight companies were folding left and right, but came back.
According to the KITPLANES December issue and the AEROCRAFTER book, he
has delivered well over a thousand kits.
Now the $100 question: Who has received more negative press in US
AVIATOR magazine: Chuck Slusarzik, or Jim Bede?
Even more telling, compare the NEGATIVE coverage CGS gets to the positive,
even GLOWING coverage Jim Bede got. Do a Dejanews search for
Campbell's postings under his old AOL account. You'll find a number of
postings announcing the status of the BD-12. They read like Bede press
releases.
A couple of years back on AOL, some BD-12 customers were grousing about
the company's problems.
Jim Campbell's response: "I've talked to Jim a bit... and it's obvious
that he's really under the gun. He's having some financial and vendor
problems. And the naysayers aren't helping any." (AOL 2/26/96)
"The naysayers aren't helping"? Is this the kind of statement an
unbiased journalist makes? An investigative journalist is SUPPOSED to
be a nay-sayer. Is SUPPOSED to doubt what the company press flacks
tell him.
"The naysayers aren't helping" can be equally applied to many
companies. Has Campbell ever said it about CGS? About Adventure Air?
Why is CGS vilified for a SINGLE delivery problem dating from fifteen
years ago, when Campbell's most cutting comment about Bede is, "...I
had once hoped that Bede's worst days were behind him"?
It should be perfectly obvious that US AVIATOR's negative coverage of
CGS has NOTHING to do with how the company treats their customers. The
complaints that arise are but sawdust thrown into an already-roaring
fire.
>My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
>newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the
>United States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal
>attacks on an editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
Unfortunately, because Campbell is the publisher and editor of the
magazine, any discussion regarding the fairness or truth of his
coverage MUST touch on something quite personal: His history of mental
illness.
But perhaps what you mean is that you want actual examples, not one-
liners about how crazy he is. All right. Let's examine how Campbell's
"personal" problems may have affected the coverage in his magazine.
Let's look at what I believe is the most telling example in the
checkered history of US AVIATOR magazine.
First off, let's establish one fact: James R. Campbell has a large
ego. There shouldn't be an argument there...Campbell admits it.
The only argument is to the *size* of his ego, and whether it's just
the manifestation of an accomplished individual or a sign of mental
illness.
The diagnosis of the court-appointed psychiatrist back in the '80s was
that of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). The Diagnostic and
Statistics Manual of Mental Diseases makes it clear to this layman that
when psychiatrist talk about NPD, they're talking about an ego problem:
"...A persuasive pattern of grandiosity...hypersensitivity to the
evaluation of others...a grandiose sense of self-importance...expect to be
noted as "special...the person may be preoccupied with how well he or
she is regarded by others...in response to criticism, he or she may
react with rage..."
In the July 1994 issue of US AVIATOR, in an article titled "An Exercise
in Absurdity... US AVIATOR Under Attack," Campbell makes charges about
an employee of Flightworks aircraft.
"...Threats of extortion issued to us by Flightworks employee Laurel
Ramey..."
"...caught in the lie, Flightwork's Ramey then said she had 'no
comment'..."
"...Flightworks' Sales Manager also accosted, confronted, or called my
writers and staffers..."
...[the postmark of an alleged anonymous mailing] reads "Fox Valley
IL", which...just happens to be a stone's throw from the relative of a
certain Flightworks employee."
"...this Flightworks staffer (Ramey, again) upset at having been
questioned by the local police over a grand theft matter..."
One problem: Laurel Ramey was a former employee of US AVIATOR... a
fact that Campbell didn't deem important enough to mention. At one
point, she was his Managing Editor (US AVIATOR magazine, January 1993,
page 84).
Even worse: Ramey was Campbell's ex-fiance. She'd left him less than
a year earlier.
Don't take my word for it. About ten months after she left, Campbell
filed a complaint against Ramey with the Winter Haven Police
Department, alleging theft. Quoting from the report: "Victim (J.
Campbell) advised in a sworn-taped statement that the suspect was
employed by him and was also engaged to him." (Agency Number
FL0531600, Agency Case Number 94-11954).
Campbell has a large ego. And what's the worst possible blow to one's
ego? Having one's SO break off a relationship has to rank right up
there.
With Campbell's medically-documented ego problems...we're expected to
believe that the failed relationship had NOTHING to do with the way he
covered the story?
If so, when confronted with it in this newsgroup back in '94, Campbell
could have shrugged, admitted the relationship, and stated that he felt
it hadn't affected his story. Or even just ignored the accusations.
He didn't. He denied the relationship in his postings in this
newsgroup. He referred to Ramey as his "alleged fiance." He threatened
to sue those who questioned his judgement.
As far as the article itself, journalistic ethics demand that the
reader be notified of such a relationship. Campbell didn't do so. If
he'd worked for another publication, he would have been fired.
But of course, he was the Publisher of US AVIATOR. He could print
whatever he wanted, subject only to his victim's ability to scrape
together $30,000 or so for a libel lawsuit. Thirty grand was probably
more than Ramey made in a year. And as the former Managing Editor and
Marketing Manager of the magazine, she would have known there would be
no money to pay any judgement to her.
The Campbell-Ramey relationship wasn't a secret to anyone working in
the homebuilt industry. Any Campbell critic knew it.
But most of the readers of the magazine didn't know. Had no way of
finding out.
If you are a fan of Campbell's, consider: If Zoom had prefaced the
article with a comment like "I know this looks bad, but I have to admit
that Ramey is my former fiance," would you have thought the lesser of
him?
Probably not. You would have been impressed by his honesty. You would
have believed him even more.
Campbell insists the relationship had nothing to do with the content of
the story. Why not state that in the story itself?
It wasn't to keep the information from his critics...they already knew.
The only possible explanation: He didn't trust that his readers would
come to the "right" conclusion. Unless he kept them in the dark.
I repeat: He doesn't trust his readers with all the facts...only those
that match the message he wants to send. He wanted his readers to
believe that Laurel Ramey was a criminal. Any facts that got in the
way of this message were suppressed.
As an example, recall Campbell's comment about Ramey being "...upset at
having been questioned by the local police over a grand theft
matter..."
The grand theft matter was Campbell's *own* accusation; the same one
where he admitted under oath that she had been his fiance. One that,
at press time of the magazine, Campbell already KNEW that the State
Attorney had refused to bring charges (Agency Case #94-11954, Page #3:
"No criminal prosecution. Case closed.")
But if he HAD mentioned those facts...well, it wouldn't make his ex-
fiance look so much like a criminal, eh?
Do journalist ethics demand that Campbell reveal both that the "grand
theft matter" was his own accusation and that the authorities declined
to prosecute? I believe so. Here's an example as to the dangers:
Suppose you're a critic of US AVIATOR. The Zoomer calls your local
police department and accuses you of being a child molester. Note that
in most communities, the names of the accusers in such cases are never
revealed.
The cops look into it (as the law requires) but quickly dismiss it.
But in his next editorial, Campbell can casually refer to your being
"Investigated for child molestation." And you can't do a DAMNED thing
about it. It's not libel...you WERE investigated. There's no law that
requires Campbell to mention that it was his own accusation, or that
you were cleared of the charges. Unless you can convince your local
authorities to release the name of your accuser (which they usually
won't do), you have no legal remedy.
The 1994 article is a mass of twisted information and suppressed truth.
A man named Frank Hitlaw is accused of a number of things, including an
unrequited love affair with Ramey. What's NOT mentioned is that when
Ramey decided to move out, Hitlaw helped her get her property out of
the house before Campbell found out.
Campbell accuses Hitlaw of threatening him...yet when the police
investigated, they ejected Campbell, not Hitlaw, from the Fly-In.
In an earlier section of the article, Campbell says he filed a lawsuit
against Flightworks "to end this harassment." I happen to believe that
he filed the suit for that purpose...but the suit itself wasn't for
libel or slander or harassment.
It claimed Flightworks hadn't paid an advertising bill.
I believe this called a "SLAPP" action...Strategic Lawsuit against
Public Participation. The tobacco companies use them to silence
critics. Campbell says he won the suit by default when Flightworks
didn't show up in court. Oddly enough, he's subsequently stated that
the monetary judgement wasn't even enough to pay his legal fees. You'd
think a default judgement would AT LEAST cover those, wouldn't you....?
Campbell claims in the article that Brady of Parascender assaulted him,
and that Brady made threats that Campbell caught on tape. Yet the
police report in this case lists Campbell as the SUSPECT...and Brady as
the victim! Some quotes from the investigating officer's report, as
posted here back in July: "I did listen to the tape...but heard no
such threats." "I later learned the SU [Suspect, Campbell] told SGT
Smith that VI [Victim, Brady] attacked SU by the throat, but he
[Campbell] mentioned nothing about this to me when I interviewed him.
Additionally, there were no marks on the SU's neck." And, of course,
Campbell couldn't produce any witnesses to an assault that supposedly
happened in the midst of the world's second-largest Fly-In.
The result of the police investigation? Campbell was ejected from the
Fly-In FOR A SECOND TIME. (The ejections are documented on two
trespass notices issued to Campbell. Event Number 94-04-2935, 4/12/94,
where the ejection was at the request of the Lakeland Airport director,
and the second was Event Number 94-04-3775, 4/15/94, at the request of
the President of Sun-N-Fun.)
The ejections best-illustrate the reality of the Campbell situation.
Every time an unbiased observer examines his claims, Campbell's
accusations are rejected. The only time Campbell wins is when his is
the only voice heard, like the "default" judgement in the Flightworks
case.
He knows it. The steps he takes to try to silence critics have been
well-documented in this newsgroup.
This is a free country. If Mr. Thistlethwaite wants to believe that
Campbell's actions as a journalist were perfectly ethical when he
attacked his own ex-fiance in print, Mr. Thistlethwaite is free to
do so. If he believes Campbell's claims of "terrorism," he's free
to publicly support Campbell.
Just as I...and others...are free to express our contrary opinions.
And back them up with documented records, not skewed interpretation and
unsupported accusations.
If a lawyer is unethical, the Bar Association can take action. If a
cop is dishonest, there are internal investigators that find the truth.
If a hairdresser is incompetent, his or her professional license can be
revoked.
But if a magazine or newspaper publisher is unethical, dishonest, and
incompetent...there's no "publishing license" to remove, no board of
ethics that can "disbar" them.
When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon
left to the common man.
Ron Wanttaja
want...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff says...
I've been out of town or else I would have responded sooner.
>I helped a friend build a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, and the manuel and prints left
>quite a bit to be desired(putting it mildly). Chuck said all the parts to
>the kit were there and they weren't, when this was pointed out he call my
>friend a liar, and it was only with repeated phone calls and pressure that
>we were able to get all the parts that were paid for.
After reading this post I have the feeling you might be someone else or someone
else is using your name. The tone and style of writing in this and your letter
to the editor,(us aviator Nov/Dec 97)in which you describe your cocaine addicted
wife,are to similiar to be just chance. Having said that,I will give you the
benefit of the doubt that you are who you say you are.
I only had a short time to research this but so far I know this.He bought his
kit from a dealer in LA less engine.Built the plane and flew it to Sun n Fun
with another fellow who was flying I think a GT -400.If you really know Quinn
you would know that if I called him a liar as you claim he would have looked me
up and probably knocked me on my ass.Instead he and a group from LA drank beer
one more than one occasion that week. I think I even gave him a Hawk hat.
As far as the plans go your probably right,they weren't as good as they could
have been back then.But his kit was #25 and they are vastly improved and also
come with a video now.You'd know this jim if you were half the reporter you say
you are. Parts too were probably back ordered but we got a handle on that as
well.Quinn got his parts sooner then you'll get your 2 copies of the Resource
Guide.
>BTW Chuck, I know you will read this, and just so there is no mystery my
>friends name is Quinn Ducharme of Opelousas La.
I know who he is and I will contact him as soon as I can to see if he really
feels the way you says he does.Not to worry ,I won't threaten him with a lawsuit
like your friend does...
>Once the plane was finished it seemed to have a trim problem, so Quinn
>installed a trim tab and it's a good thing he did because at a fly-in he
>pulled back on the stick and the flimsy attachment between the stick and the
>elevator cables failed leaving him with no elevators at all.
Exactly what flimsy attachment are you talking about? Since you helped build it
what did the attachment look like?? What your claiming is very serious,why did
you wait 5 years to tell me this? If you were a right thinking person you'd have
told me about a potential problem so I could look into this. Fortunatly there is
no "flimsy" attachment and the stick assembly is the same today as it was
then.Had there truly been a problem and you remained silent as you did ,that
would make you the lowest form of life I could imagine.
>Now as to why I would post this on this board...
>My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
>newspaper, and I was brought up to believe in the constitution of the United
>States, especially the 1st amendment... So when I see personal attacks on an
>editor or publisher it really raised my hackles.
Just for grins what was the name of your father's paper,when was it published?
If your truly being honest you should have no problem answering that question
>I've seen how people react when they are criticized n print and it almost
>always comes out the same: those whom the criticism is warrented either see
>that is constructive and fix the problem or knowing it is true act like
>adolecent kids and attack the critic.
How true,I critize zoom and his magazine and he attacks me like an adolecent
child.
>BTW if someone is libeled there is always the remedy of the court room....
>as "happy miles" is doing, Of course a libel suit is a double edge sword, if
>you lose ....... maybe that is why you didn't bother eh Chuck .... you'd
>have to prove that what was printed was both untrue and malicious....
You see Geoff(jim) I've been doing exactly what you told me to do over and over
again, "take care of your customers".So rather than spend $10,000.00 on
attornies I bought alum tubing and "took care of my customers".Now we're
delivering faster than ever with 99.99-100% complete kits. It's taken 5 years to
get where we're at now, no thanks to zoom.That's why I haven't sued....Yet.
As I research this more I will up date the group. I will post any private e-mail
to me at my discression.
Chuck(I'm going to the bankruptcy hearing)Slusarczyk Cluck Cluck
Kevin Riley
You go Ron,
Ronald James Wanttaja wrote:
> I'm going to save a bit of bandwidth and answer two posters in this one
> message.
Snipage of really good stuff
> When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon
> left to the common man.
I've popping in and out of this NG for 4 or 5 years now (leave when a major
flame war starts...last one was Lamar) and this has got to be the best rundown
of his Zoomage I have ever seen.
I've met a few like him, exuding airport macho from every pore. Sometimes they
take themselves out of the gene pool, sometimes not. It's when they take
someone else with them is when it really hurts.
Take a look at http://www.radix.net/~lindo/Alexpage.htm to see the ship I used
to work on that was lost by just such a person.
One question, dos this guy have a ticket? I'd hate to have to share airspace
this him.
--
Kevin Riley Remove "nospam" to reply
S.A.M.
The Pentagon
Washington DC
http://www.sam.pentagon.mil/
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <6e0t2j$m...@drn.newsguy.com>, ChuckSlusarczyk says...
Correction to statement.Should have read as follows: add "with me"
>you would know that if I called him a liar as you claim he would have looked me
>up and probably knocked me on my ass.Instead he and a group from LA drank >beer
>"With Me" on more than one occasion that week. I think I even gave him a >Hawk
>hat.
Alan Staats
On 9 Mar 1998 00:07:18 -0800, want...@halcyon.com (Ronald James
Wanttaja) wrote:
...snip
>
>When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon
>left to the common man.
>
>
>Ron Wanttaja
>want...@halcyon.com
>http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
bravo! and thank you, ron.
staats
Geoff Thistlethwaite
I TRIED TO MAIL THIS TO CHUCK BUT IT CAME BACK SO I POST IT HERE FOR HIM TO
SEE
From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
To: ChuckSlusarczyk
Subject: on knees apology
Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 9:48 AM
Chuck,
MY MOST HUMBLE AND HEARTFELT APOLOGIES!!!!!!!(wipping myself with large wet
noodles...ouch....ouch)
Unfortunately I won't be able to attend S-N-F this year to buy you beer or
any other beverage that you'd care for(I've got to be in Chicago for work),
I figure I owe you AT LEAST that....
Quinn will be there and if you e-mail me with your beverage of chioce I'll
send it along with him!!!
I attach e-mail apologies that I've sent to others on this board.
PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THIS AND PAST IGNORANT TRANSGRESSIONS!
Geoff Thistlethwaite
From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
To: to...@pucillo.com <to...@pucillo.com>
Subject: Apologies
Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 2:43 PM
Tony,
Please accept my most humble apologies. I've just spent about 5 hrs. doing
research on net and it seems that I have been WAY off base on my accusations
towards you. I have no excuses to offer except I really wanted to believe
that there was still heroes left in the world. Way too naive for someone my
age.
However just to clear up one point, the situation with GCS came about
before I'd ever heard of usaviator and only seem to confirm the veracity of
mr campbell. There were problems getting parts to finish the plane, but it
was finished, and flew, tho it did have some problems which I won't go into
here.
Once again please accept my apologies, and know I wish you no ill.
Now I've got to go check on that big pot of crow in the oven and see if I've
got enough Tabasco!
scarred but smarter(I hope)
Geoff Thistlethwaite
From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
To: Alan Staats <alan....@MCIONE.com>
Subject: Re: Why does everyone hate USAviator?
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 5:04 AM
Alan,
Crow taste awful, even Tabasco sause doesn't help.
->personally, i think you are a supporter of mr. campbell for a very
>good reason: it fits your (and your friend's) agenda to have an ally
>in whatever fight you have with CGS Aviation.
HOWEVER, in the above point you couldn't be further from the truth.
I nor my friend has ANY "agenda" with GCS Aviation. The example used was
true BEFORE I ever read anything or ever heard of Campbell or usaviator. I
sighted the example because I know it to be true and when I finally came
across usaviator it seem to confirm what I had experienced. Neither i nor my
friend hve a fight with GCS, but at the time their service was poor and
according to my friend, insulting.
>the saddest part in the whole Campbell/USAviator saga is that such a
>publication is needed,
I couldn't agree more
>
>make your own decisions, mr. thistlewaite. that's what freedom is all
>about. but make informed decisions.
>
>staats
Well I am a little better informed now; also somewhat
disillusioned,disappointed, and a bit pissed; you would not believe some of
the crap I've gotten over this. Yours and Vernon Barrs where about the most
polite, the rest would like to string me up by my privates...tho I probubly
deserve some of it.
I originally came to this board to find some help with a couple of projects
I've got going but after this I shan't ever be back.(not true-I've got to
accept the abuse I've earned gt)
If I've insulted you in any way please accept my apologies, I've already
sent Tony a couple of notes of apologies.
Good-by and good luck
Geoff Thistlethwaite
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl A. Johansson <bird_...@byu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
To: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Why does everyone hate USAviator?
>Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote:
>>
>>
>> Now as to why I would post this on this board...
>> My father owned,edited and published the worlds first daily offset
>> newspaper,
>
>Geoff, could you please Identify this newspaper by name and location (as
>well as year). Being somewhat of a "press history buff" I would like to
>add this info to my files. Also can you give me a resource that
>validates this claim?? you know -- independant proof of this statement
>in a credible source???
Carl try a search for The Daily World of Opelousas La. Their lead story of
the year was the passing of the founder of the paper, my father John
Richmond Thistlethwaite. perhaps this will prove that I'm who I say I am.
I'm trying to attach a couple of e-mails I sent to Tony P. and Alan Staats,
if I'm unable to (I'm still new to this hi tech stuff) then ask them about
my most recent correspondance.
Trying to chew much vile crow
disillusionanlly yours,
Geoff Thistlethwaite
RobertR237
In article <6e07vm$2cg$1...@halcyon.com>, want...@halcyon.com (Ronald James
Wanttaja) writes:
>>>>> Many Details removed prior to the following closing <<<<<<<<<
>
>But if a magazine or newspaper publisher is unethical, dishonest, and
>incompetent...there's no "publishing license" to remove, no board of
>ethics that can "disbar" them.
>
>When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon
>left to the common man.
>
>
>Ron Wanttaja
>want...@halcyon.com
>http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
>
>
Ron,
Thank you for the time you took to put together the above response. There seem
to be many who will take the time to read the garbage that JC spews forth but
will not take the time or make the effort to find the truth. I hope that your
"TIP OF THE ICEBURG" replies will open just a few eyes. It's just unfortunate
that the facts will reach such a small percentage of those who read the
Zoomsters crap. (I am not saying that everything that USAviator prints is
crap, but how can anyone tell what is and what isn't once a publication crosses
the line of truth.)
Your closing comments are what keep me on somewhat of a campaign to challange
JC and other publications from time to time. I have been witness to numerous
fabrications and enhancements by the press and broadcast media which turned out
to be out and out lies. As you said, there is { no "publishing license" to
remove, no board of ethics that can "disbar" them} and very little that we can
do to right the wrongs. Just how many times have you seen the "Press" do a
critical story about the abuse of the "Press". How many times have you seen
"Front Page Stories" be retracted by a one line retraction on lower left corner
of page 33 instead of the "Front Page". (One is too many!)
The internet and these newsgroups are the first and only medium which provide
everyone the equal right and opportunity to true "Freedom of Speech" and
"Freedom of the Press". Just try to get that same freedom by critizing your
local paper, television station, radio station or magazine and see if they will
print or broadcast your critical editorial replies.
Your final statement should be the creed that everyone in the press lives by:
>>>When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon left to
the common man.
Thanks again for your replies,
Bob Reed
John R. Johnson
I don't know if I want any kids around my hangar, John.
John
On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, JStricker wrote:
> Ron,
>
> Don't fool around, send it to Pink Knee Ville. After we're done worshipping
> whatever it is we are supposed to worship with a goat (I suggest a good, red
> wine) we sacrifice and barbecue it. Besides, It will save JRJ the trouble
> of mowing around the hangar. Goats eat a lot of grass you know.
>
> John Stricker
>
> --
> Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
> why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
>
> jstr...@odsys.net
>
> "I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
> just to become a vegetarian"
>
>
> Ronald James Wanttaja wrote in message <6dt1dp$9lp$1...@halcyon.com>...
> >In article <35018e90....@news.loop.com>,
> >Richard Riley <ber...@nospam.seesig> wrote:
> >>On Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:36:25 -0800, in <35013F...@magg.net>, "Tony P."
> >><ae...@magg.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I suggest you do a Dejanews search. The comments by Ron Wanttaja are
> >>>probably the most balanced. Of course, I think mine are as well, but
> >>>since I have been denominated, in effect, the Great Satan by his
> >>>Zoomness, you won't believe that unless you go 'way back to the
> >>>beginning when I was his staunchest defender around here.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Tony! I thought I was the Great Satan! Did I get traded again? Why
> doesn't
> >>somebody tell me these things!
> >
Kevin Riley
"And the truth shall be known"
You know one of the great things about USENET?
The truth will eventually be distilled out.
That's single malt truth by the way.
ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article <6dp7gq$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff says...
>
> I've been out of town or else I would have responded sooner.
Snip of more vary good stuff
> You see Geoff(jim) I've been doing exactly what you told me to do over and over
> again, "take care of your customers".So rather than spend $10,000.00 on
> attornies I bought alum tubing and "took care of my customers".Now we're
> delivering faster than ever with 99.99-100% complete kits. It's taken 5 years to
> get where we're at now, no thanks to zoom.That's why I haven't sued....Yet.
>
> As I research this more I will up date the group. I will post any private e-mail
> to me at my discression.
>
> Chuck(I'm going to the bankruptcy hearing)Slusarczyk Cluck Cluck
--
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <6e152a$h...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff says...
>Well I am a little better informed now; also somewhat
>disillusioned,disappointed, and a bit pissed; you would not believe some of
>the crap I've gotten over this. Yours and Vernon Barrs where about the most
>polite, the rest would like to string me up by my privates...tho I probubly
>I originally came to this board to find some help with a couple of projects
>I've got going but after this I shan't ever be back.(not true-I've got to
>accept the abuse I've earned gt)
Geoff,
Let me be the first to tell you that you earned a lot of respect with your last
post and I would urge you to reconsider your statement that "I shant be back"
There is a wealth of good information to be had here and I for one would welcome
your input.This is a big hangar so please reconsider.
Chuck S
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <6e152a$h...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff says...
>MY MOST HUMBLE AND HEARTFELT APOLOGIES!!!!!!!(wipping myself with large wet
>noodles...ouch....ouch)
>Unfortunately I won't be able to attend S-N-F this year to buy you beer or
>any other beverage that you'd care for(I've got to be in Chicago for work),
>I figure I owe you AT LEAST that....
Beer is fine,I appreciate the fact that you are man enough to correct yourself
and I for one would be proud to have one with you. Tell Quinn to stop by our
tent on Monday for the Hawk Owners party and I'll by him one... I have no grief
with you...Case closed
Good luck
Chuck Slusarczyk
RobertR237
In article <6e152a$h...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff Thistlethwaite"
<geof...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Trying to chew much vile crow
> disillusionanlly yours,
> Geoff Thistlethwaite
>
>
Geoff,
There are more of us who have had to pull feathers from between our teeth than
we would like to admit. Welcome to the USAviators Feather Pluckers Club. I
have to admit that "I've been there and done that" and had to eat a bit of the
old crow myself. Like you, I spoke up then did the research. Also, like you,
I learned that there are three sides to every story. I also hope that you will
stick around and contribute in the future.
We live, we learn and then hopefully we give back.
Bob Reed
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <6e152a$h...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Geoff says...
>Well I am a little better informed now; also somewhat
>disillusioned,disappointed, and a bit pissed; you would not believe some of
>the crap I've gotten over this. Yours and Vernon Barrs where about the most
>polite, the rest would like to string me up by my privates...tho I probubly
>I originally came to this board to find some help with a couple of projects
>I've got going but after this I shan't ever be back.(not true-I've got to
>accept the abuse I've earned gt)
Geoff,
rleo...@wizrealm.com
In article <6e07vm$2cg$1...@halcyon.com>,
want...@halcyon.com (Ronald James Wanttaja) wrote:
>
big snip
Good summary Ron - Maybe it ought to be included in the FAQ - the current
subject would make a good header as well.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Bill Robie
Geoff -
Don't worry about it, and please don't feel that you have to go
away somewhere. You are only the most recent of a number of
people here who really wanted to believe in heroes, then
found out that they had made an unfortunate selection in that
department.
There are real heroes out there, Geoff, but you will find that the
real ones don't have to work so hard trying to convince everyone
that they are genuine. Yeager and Hoover, for example, don't
need to run their own self-promoting publicity machine in order to
gain admirers.
Welcome to the newsgroup. What were your questions?
Bill Robie
John R. Johnson
Should have. I think I have you on the registrants list now, Walt.
I got you and a buddy, still unnamed! :-) Looking forward to seeing
both of you here.
John
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, B25flyer wrote:
> John just wondering if you got my registration for the flyin?
>
> Walt
>
JStricker
Geoff,
I myself am a relative newbie to this group (in comparison to many of the
others here anyway) having participating for less than a year.
I was not, however, a newbie to Usenet having been involved in the late
'70's while in academia. I was away from it for about 7 or 8 years with no
access to an ISP locally. I have a couple of primary rules I follow on
Usenet postings.
The first is, you never have to retract that which you have not said.
The second is, never type anything to anyone you wouldn't say to them face
to face.
While you certainly didn't violate the second of my self-imposed rules, you
did the first. I was lurking here for about 4 months before I ever
commented on anything. This wasn't out of fear, or any trepidation, I felt
it a matter of courtesy. I have never felt comfortable jumping into a
conversation that I really didn't know what was being talked about. I also
know better than to argue facts with someone that is eminently more
qualified than I. The only way to get to know those on the group is to sit
and listen.
For example, since I know nothing of publishing or writing, I would never
suppose to know more about that facet of aviation than Mr. Statts or
Wanttaja. Likewise, I will defer every time to someone of Mr. Travis
credentials regarding the current state of the aviation piston powerplant.
And so it goes. BTW, the Mr.. references are intentional and not inserted
lightly. I have never met any of these people (of which these are but a few
of the regulars here) but I hold them in the highest regard and with utmost
respect, hence the formality in this thread. (Not sure I could ever refer
to BWB as Mr. Phillips, but I'm working on it)
All the members here have their weaknesses, strengths, and, dare I say, hot
buttons with which they contribute. It amazes me how quickly a troll or
malcontent (this is NOT a reference to you sir) is identified and then
summarily, and severely dealt with. IMHO, group policing by the peers at
it's best.
I never contributed a post to this thread until now. Not because I had
nothing to say on it, but because I knew that Ron, Al, Chuck, and the rest
knew many more of the details of the history and could explain and defend
their positions much better than I.
As I said, I wish more would adhere to my rules above, but when they don't
there isn't a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about it. The group as a
whole will not hesitate to correct the offender though and this in itself
helps to keep us honest.
While some may have taken your letter personally in my estimation your only
"crime" was speaking in haste. Let he who is without THAT particular sin
cast the first stone. Your apology to Chuck in particular and the others in
the group took courage and showed moral character. It's not easy to eat
crow, even when able to hide behind a computer screen. Don't feel you have
to go away and hide forever over this. You will find that if you have
questions about your projects you will get at least a couple of good
suggestions. Usually many more than that. By nature, the members of this
group are helpful and giving of their experiences so you shouldn't just
throw that resource away.
The group is no different than any other conversation you might have with a
bunch of airport buds over a beer or two. You can expect great friends,
great conversations, and almost a brother (& sister) hood of experimental
aviators. Just like in a family, don't expect everything to be all rosy all
the time. The mud and especially the BS gets thrown about on occasion.
Just like in real life. This group, more than almost any I follow, will NOT
suffer (what they perceive to be) fools gladly.
Deal with it, but please don't go stomping off mad because somebody
corrected you. If you don't like homebuilding, fine, you have no reason to
be here. But if you do like conversations about homebuilding, aircraft, or
any of the other subjects the group tends to diverge to (such as this) from
time to time, then learn from it and go on.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote in message
<6e152a$h...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>I TRIED TO MAIL THIS TO CHUCK BUT IT CAME BACK SO I POST IT HERE FOR HIM TO
>SEE
>From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geof...@worldnet.att.net>
>To: ChuckSlusarczyk
>Subject: on knees apology
>Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 9:48 AM
>Chuck,
>MY MOST HUMBLE AND HEARTFELT APOLOGIES!!!!!!!(wipping myself with large wet
!
JStricker
I believe that's age discrimination sir. I'LL SUE!!!
(Hell, everyone else is, I'm feeling left out having never been sued in my
life.)
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
John R. Johnson wrote in message ...
>I don't know if I want any kids around my hangar, John.
>
>John
>
>
>On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, JStricker wrote:
>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Don't fool around, send it to Pink Knee Ville. After we're done
worshipping
>> whatever it is we are supposed to worship with a goat (I suggest a good,
red
>> wine) we sacrifice and barbecue it. Besides, It will save JRJ the
trouble
>> of mowing around the hangar. Goats eat a lot of grass you know.
>>
>> John Stricker
>>
>> --
>> Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
>> why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
>>
>> jstr...@odsys.net
>>
>> "I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
>> just to become a vegetarian"
>>
>>
Carl A. Johansson
Janice Phillips wrote:
>
> Hey! You don't have to go away. Nobody's perfect. Just look before
> you leap in this group or you'll get your head cut off. There are
> many times all of us have gone to the whipping post of the group. You
> just screwed up and had your turn there upon your first posting. Lurk
> awhile. We aren't mean spirited people. Actually most of the jerks
> on this group are a lot of fun!! Hang around, you'll see.
>
> Badwater Bill
Hey Phillips
you have a sex change or does your ISP know something we don't.
Charles Troy Tripp
Thanks for the rundown. Gosh, I almost wish I hadn't posted the question to
begin with: seems I added more fuel to the flame war!
Actually, that's exactly why I posted. I've read RAH for three or four years
now, but I've avoided the "Zoom" thread because it was 1% information and 99%
fireworks. Now I've got a handle on what's going on.
Ronald James Wanttaja
In article <6e1jtd$3ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <rleo...@wizrealm.com> wrote:
>In article <6e07vm$2cg$1...@halcyon.com>,
> want...@halcyon.com (Ronald James Wanttaja) wrote:
>>
>big snip
>
>Good summary Ron - Maybe it ought to be included in the FAQ - the current
>subject would make a good header as well.
The FAQ is intended to be a repository of NON-CONTROVERSIAL answers to
common questions. I'm going to exert my dictatorial powers over the FAQ
content and decree that this issue doesn't qualify as "non-controversial." :-)
Ron "Veni, Vedi, Voce (I came, I saw, I posted :-)" Wanttaja
want...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
JStricker
BWB
Legally?? Your parents must have really hated you. Or you were at least a
difficult delivery. ;8-)
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Billphil@ ix.netcom.com (Janice Phillips) wrote in message
<3507876a....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:24:32 -0600, "JStricker"
><jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>>. (Not sure I could ever refer
>>to BWB as Mr. Phillips, but I'm working on it)
>
>>John Stricker
>
>Stop working on it John. I don't respond to it even from the people
>who work for me. Badwater Bill is fine! It's my real name you know!
>
>BWB
Roger Halstead
Alan Staats wrote in message <35040a8...@news.primenet.com>...
>On 9 Mar 1998 00:07:18 -0800, want...@halcyon.com (Ronald James
>Wanttaja) wrote:
>
>...snip
>>
>>When the power of the press is abused, the Truth is the only weapon
>>left to the common man.
>>
Well put Ron.
The "truth" can be elusive indede, but here (on the internet) there is
*usually* enough information available for the determined individual to
seperate fact from fiction and emotion from reality.
Thanks for DejaNews!
It really is possible to quite often find the reasoning behind many posts,
and only when the background becomes present can many of these posts be seen
in their true nature. Quite often a little background can give them a whole
new meaning.
Roger Halstead K8RI and EAA Chapter 1093 Historian
N833R World's oldest Debonair? S# CD-2
http://members.tm.net/rdhalste
>>
>>Ron Wanttaja
>>want...@halcyon.com
>>http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/
>
YOUR NAME HERE
Charles,
When I discovered this group about a year ago I lurked for a few months to get a feel for what was going on before making my first post. I had no knowledge of Mr. Campbell or USAviator magazine and no axe to grind with anyone. Everytime I read a thread having to do with Mr. Campbell someone would always mention doing a DEJANEWS search on the subject. One evening I undertook such a search and was astonished at the amount of material available on the subject. I spent hours reading about Mr. Campbells' exploits and certainly did not get through all of it. It did give me enough information to form an opinion of the man.
Later last year at the Oshkosh Fly-in I had the good fortune to meet some of the people that Mr. Campbell has written so often about At a party one evening I was introduced to Happy Miles, Chuck S. of CGS, (I'm not even going to attempt the spelling) Tony Pucillo, Richard Riley, Dave Ronnenburg, Vicky Cruse (Mr. Campbell's ex-wife) and several others. To a person, I found them to be knowledgeable, pleasent, logical and level headed. Just the kind of people I like to associate with. IMHO, I find these individuals to be far more credible than Mr. Campbell.
Ric Lee
riclee at earthlink dot net
Real guy, my opinions
Janice Phillips
Janice Phillips
John Ousterhout
>The fundamental issue is the truthfulness of the Publisher/Editor-in-
>Chief of the magazine. Eighteen years ago, he was such an
>uncontrollable liar that it led to a diagnosis of a personality
>disorder. Some people, including myself, see strong similarities
>between his behavior then (as documented in Federal Record) and his
>behavior now. I posted summary of the earlier court action a few
>months back, with specific comparisons between his behavior as
>documented in the NTSB record and his statements on
>his web page and in the magazine. You might look it up on Dejanews.
>The diagnosis of the court-appointed psychiatrist back in the '80s was
>that of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). The Diagnostic and
>Statistics Manual of Mental Diseases makes it clear to this layman that
>when psychiatrist talk about NPD, they're talking about an ego problem:
>"...A persuasive pattern of grandiosity...hypersensitivity to the
>evaluation of others...a grandiose sense of self-importance...expect to be
>noted as "special...the person may be preoccupied with how well he or
>she is regarded by others...in response to criticism, he or she may
>react with rage..."
Great Summary Ron.
Excerpt from the transcript of the hearing where the NTSB
Administrative LAW judge affirmed the FAA's Emergency order of
revocation for Jim Campbell's Medical certificate.
=================================================
I have no alternative with the evidence - or the overwhelming evidence
that I have heard today - but to affirm the Emergency order of
Revocation that has been filed in this case, and to hold that
Respondent is not medically qualified to exercise the privileges of
any class of airman medical certificate now or for the next two years,
due to the fact that he does have a personality disorder that makes
him unable to safely perform those duties at the present time or
within the next two years.
Therefore he is disqualified for airman medical certification under
the sections of the Federal Aviation regulations herein before cited.
It is therefore ordered that any airman certificate held by the
Respondent is hereby revoked.
Entered this 18th day of November, 1980, in New York, New York.
==================================================
I have posted a copy of the entire NTSB transcript (se-4661) on my
home page for all to read or download. I suggest that all interested
parties read it and decide for yourself if Jim Campbell has changed
since 1980.
- John Ousterhout -
www.cyberis.net/~jouster
jou...@cyberis.net
John R. Johnson
If you are feeling affectionate toward him, I have heard him referred to
as "Bad Billy."
John
John R. Johnson
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, JStricker wrote:
> I believe that's age discrimination sir. I'LL SUE!!!
>
Shucks, John. One of the problems with the news groups seems to be
a complete lack of discrimination! :-)
John
Badwater Bill
On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:24:46 -0500, Charles Troy Tripp
<ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Well, I read all the responces and I'm no closer to understanding what the
>problem is. Someone care to enlighten me without a lesson in freedom of the
>press?
If you can't figure out what's going on by now, give it up Chuck.
Badwater (up-Chuck) Bill
Badwater Bill
> Hey Phillips
>you have a sex change or does your ISP know something we don't.
As you can see I screwed up. I just bought the full version of Agent
and upgraded. Unfortunately I upgraded Boom-Booms files, not mine.
Without knowing this I posted under her software. I've fixed the
problem now as you can see.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste!
BWB
John R. Johnson
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote:
> I originally came to this board to find some help with a couple of projects
> I've got going but after this I shan't ever be back.(not true-I've got to
> accept the abuse I've earned gt)
> sent Tony a couple of notes of apologies.
> Good-by and good luck
> Geoff Thistlethwaite
Hi Geoff,
Takes guts to admit that perhaps you were wrong. I realize it is a long
way from Chicago to Sun-N-Fun. However, the whole gang is getting together
at my place in southern Illinois in May. The 15, 16, and 17. Come on
down to Pinckneyville that weekend and have a beer and bar-b-que with the
crowd. You should be able to get LOTS of questions answered, and maybe
even some debate or so. I promise no one will hit you with any thing
hard on purpose! :-)
John
Kevin Riley
You know Bill,
I've been out of this group since the infamouse Lamar wars, (Vetran in good
standing) and it's to see things have'nt changed much.
Badwater Bill wrote:
--
JStricker
JRJ,
Interesting point John. In all seriousness.
A couple of months ago I had my wife read some of the posts that struck me
particularly funny. ( I believe it was the classic suggestions on BWB's
dog, flying, and chili. A truly classic thread and one that SHOULD be
included in the FAQ's Ron, IMHO, but I digress).
She asked me "Who are these people? What are they like?"
I told her well, other than the common thread of marginal sanity, it was
probably the most diverse group I've ever run into with about the only real
common thread being homebuilding. There's teachers, writers,
farmers,software engineers, hardware engineers. retirees, students, even a
mad nuclear bomber and God knows what else..
She says "What do they look like?"
I had to tell her that, with a few exceptions, I really didn't know. Nor
did I care. Black, white, red, yellow, Protestant, catholic, Jew, doesn't
matter as long as they don't turn themselves into lawn darts and like to
talk airplanes.
She says "Huh. Never heard of that before." I said "what??" She says
"Well, think about it. If you get a new job, or join a new group, I don't
care how open minded you are there are going to be people that you just
don't care for on sight, with no reason. While you don't necessarily
dislike them, you will probably never become real friends with them."
Well the point of this rambling is just this. For the most part, Usenet is
blind (as well as deaf, dumb, and stupid at times) to the outward
appearances. It may be as perfect an association of people, free of
prejudice based on appearance, that has ever been devised. I'm a case in
point. Do any of you know what religion I am? Color of my skin? Nope,
probably not. Do any care? I'd wager less than 1 in a 100 of the posters
here give a tinker's damn one way or the other.
It certainly still has it's problems, as buttholes arise in every color and
ethnic group, but I have never heard a racial slur or insult to ones ethnic
or religious background in all the time I've been here. (Joking not
considered, and often those few are immediately followed by a post that
"hey, I might have stepped over the line here and I didn't
mean................") And that appears to be the rule on Usenet on any of
the "real" groups (i.e., not the conspiracy theory/KKK/all that BS kind of
stuff that has no real useful purpose). While things get pretty hot
sometimes (re: the JRJ/Bass feud currently in progress) it is normally
because one or the other or both parties view the other as genuine
butt-wipes and not from preconceived notions.
OK, enough of this crap. Time to get back to my old mean-spirited, bigoted,
republican self now. I'm late in getting back to the
alt.right.wing.conspiracy group. Hope to see all of you at Pink Knee Ville
in May so that I can start stuffing you all in your little pigeon holes and
hating you for no reason like all real Amuricuns do.
Just some meaningless ramblings while I'm waiting for my pants to dry out.
Don't ask.
John
"I'm still waiting to be persecuted for joining the church of the
temporarily grounded" Stricker
(I wonder if Pasture Dave can deduct the trip to Pink Knee Ville as a
missionary expense and if we can't deduct it as a pilgrimage. After all, we
have the goat.)
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
John R. Johnson wrote in message ...
Badwater Bill
On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:01:11 -0600, "JStricker"
<jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
snip some good shit
> There's teachers, writers,
>farmers,software engineers, hardware engineers. retirees, students, even a
>mad nuclear bomber and God knows what else..
>
>She says "What do they look like?"
I'm not mad. I'm very happy.
I do want you to know that I am a minority, however. I was born a
poor, blind, black, jewish, nuclear physicist from the deserts of
Nevada. Now I'm fat, flatulent, old, and stupid. Thank God you can't
see me. I'm terrible to look at. Small children scream when they see
me on the streets. I may have to avoid the "Wounded Knee fly-in"
just because I'm so embarrased about my looks. On second thought, a
few beers and nobody will notice. I remember telling myself that once
in a bar at about two in the morning as I looked at an old bag that
stumbled in and sat next to me. (That was when I was single of course)
Badwater (ugly to the bone) Bill
bob_ranck
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.980310102015.1088z-100000@reliant>, "John says...
>
>On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, JStricker wrote:
>
>> I believe that's age discrimination sir. I'LL SUE!!!
>>
>
>Shucks, John. One of the problems with the news groups seems to be
>a complete lack of discrimination! :-)
>
>John
>
Wasn't this how he intended to write it ?
I believe that's age. Damnation, sir, I'M SURE!!!
Bob
Bruce A. Frank
> OK, enough of this crap. Time to get back to my old mean-spirited, bigoted,
> republican self now. I'm late in getting back to the
> alt.right.wing.conspiracy group. Hope to see all of you at Pink Knee Ville
> in May so that I can start stuffing you all in your little pigeon holes and
> hating you for no reason like all real Amuricuns do.
Republican! Man, I thought there was a rule or they were trying to make
a law or something to prevent communication between such zellots.
Bruce (did I forget to say dittos) Frank
MikeT nyc
I took a long absence from this list hoping that the loonies wasting bandwidth
on US Aviator would finally go away, but here you all are still, ranting away
about US Aviator and the wickedness of Jim Campbell. Isn't it tome you people
got a life and let homebuilders have this newsgroup back? There are plenty of
conspiracy newsgroups you could go to and rant about Jim Campbell, Roswell,
Black Helicopters, Grassy Knolls, etc. You'd be right at home.
dpi...@erolsxx.com
You accuse us of wasting bandwidth, while you go and post the IDENTICAL
message in RAH under two different headings, this one above and
"Re: USAviator Craps Out Again (can you tell I live in Vegas?)".
So I will answer you once more, Campbell was a dead issue around here
until some newbie started it all over again. And this thread, along with
you, will both hopefully be gone again in a few days.
Or to paraphrase Julius Ceasar in his Commentaries on the Gallic and
Civil Wars, "You came, you disappointed us all again, you left
(permanently)".
Pastor Dave
RobertR237
In article <3508cc3a....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, bill...@ix.netcom.com
(Badwater Bill) writes:
>
> I do want you to know that I am a minority, however. I was born a
>poor, blind, black, jewish, nuclear physicist from the deserts of
>Nevada. Now I'm fat, flatulent, old, and stupid. Thank God you can't
>see me. I'm terrible to look at. Small children scream when they see
>me on the streets. I may have to avoid the "Wounded Knee fly-in"
>just because I'm so embarrased about my looks. On second thought, a
>few beers and nobody will notice. I remember telling myself that once
>in a bar at about two in the morning as I looked at an old bag that
>stumbled in and sat next to me. (That was when I was single of course)
>
>Badwater (ugly to the bone) Bill
At Long Last, he tells the truth!
We are in total agreement about your avoiding Wounded Knee but do send "Boom
Boom" in your place. ;-) Then the rest of us can practice being dirty old
men without fear of retaliation.
Now there is a good reason for me to take some time off from work to attend.
Bob (damn, I wish I could make it) Reed
Carl A. Johansson
MikeT nyc wrote:
>
> I took a long absence from this list hoping that the loonies wasting bandwidth
> on US Aviator would finally go away, but here you all are still, ranting away
> about US Aviator and the wickedness of Jim Campbell. Isn't it tome you people
> got a life and let homebuilders have this newsgroup back? There are plenty of
> conspiracy newsgroups you could go to and rant about Jim Campbell, Roswell,
> Black Helicopters, Grassy Knolls, etc. You'd be right at home.
And you post your message twice. I assume to make sure all of us see
your infinite wisdom and knowledge.
I repeat : Isn't this post part of the "problem" you are complaining
about???
Tell us who is forcing you to read these posts - we'll send BWB down to
take him out for good so you are not tortured anymore by the "have to
read this post against my will monster"
Daniel Grunloh
In article <19980311064...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
mike...@aol.com (MikeT nyc) wrote:
>I took a long absence from this list hoping that the loonies wasting
>bandwidth on US Aviator would finally go away,
With 99 posts in three threads out of 714 on my local server I hope
sport aviation can withstand the use of 13% of our bandwidth. :-)
>got a life and let homebuilders have this newsgroup back?
87% still available for your contributions.
>There are plenty of conspiracy newsgroups you could go to and rant about
>Jim Campbell, Roswell, Black Helicopters, Grassy Knolls, etc.
This subject would not belong there as the Campbell story is EASILY
verified, and much more entertaining also.
Dan (loonie, and junior chickenologist) Grunloh
-------------------------
--Daniel Grunloh (gru...@uiuc.edu)
--University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana
--http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~grunloh - for ultralight info
Badwater Bill
On 9 Mar 1998 18:46:52 GMT, YOUR NAME HERE <USER...@aros.net> wrote:
>Charles Troy Tripp <ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Don't waste your time on this guy Ric. He's either a plant from the
Cambell camp or he's too thick to get the drift.
BWB
Charles Troy Tripp
I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
2) Eat shit and die you worm.
Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
Badwater Bill wrote:
> On 9 Mar 1998 18:46:52 GMT, YOUR NAME HERE <USER...@aros.net> wrote:
>
> >Charles Troy Tripp <ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>My name is not Chuck, I've lurked for quite a while without making headway, >and your post is about as enlightening as a book of wet matches.
> >
> >Charles,
> >
> >When I discovered this group about a year ago I lurked for a few months to get a feel for what was going on before making my first post. I had no knowledge of Mr. Campbell or USAviator magazine and no axe to grind with anyone. Everytime I read a Don't waste your time on this guy Ric. He's either a plant from the
Ronald James Wanttaja
In article <3506d16b...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
Badwater Bill <bill...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Don't waste your time on this guy Ric. He's either a plant from the
>Cambell camp or he's too thick to get the drift.
Bill, I think you're getting bit by propagation delay. The message you
posted Tuesday referenced a posting from Charles on *Friday*; before the
biggest flood of "here's why" postings. Also, I saw another posting
from him on Sunday or so saying he understood the situation better.
For those who don't understand what I mean by "propagation delay," it
can sometimes take a week (or even two) for a posting to make it to your
system. That's why you'll see responses posted to a message you haven't
seen yet; the follow-up posters have a better connection to the original
poster's message, and there's less delay from the follow-up sites than the
original site.
That's one of the reasons old-timers advise against posting "breaking
news." When Challenger exploded, "Bulletins" appeared on various groups
for up to two weeks after.
Badwater Bill
>I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
>
>1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
>
>2) Eat shit and die you worm.
>
>Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
>
>
Oh, I don't have to use email to say these things you cowardly little
bastard. Only the little chicken shits of the Internet post email.
If I wanted that email posted here I'd have done it myself. So, you
are the one who takes responsibility for it's content, not me. You're
a coward.
But just so you know how I really feel, here it is in public.
1. Go fuck yourself ass hole
2. Eat shit and die you worm.
Now, CHUCK does that make you feel better?
Badwater Bill
Peter S. Lert
I was under the impression that "propagation delay" is related to the
difference in speeds of light and sound--for example, the way you see
the lightning flash before you hear the thunder.
More germane to the present issue is that this is why many people appear
to be fairly bright until they begin to speak.
John R. Johnson
And here, all these years, I thought the "propagation" delay was about
nine months! :-)
JOhn
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <350747A6...@mindspring.com>, Charles says...
>
>I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple
>question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did,
>thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up
>with two e-mail messages that read:
>
>1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
>
>2) Eat shit and die you worm.
>
>Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical
>school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
Charles
Any chance you could post BWB's e-mail to you complete with headers? Not that I
doubt what your saying but to assertain that it in fact came from Bill. I tend
to think if BWB wanted to say those things,he probable would have done it right
here in the open...
I remain
Chuck S
Badwater Bill
>Charles
>Any chance you could post BWB's e-mail to you complete with headers? Not that I
>doubt what your saying but to assertain that it in fact came from Bill. I tend
>to think if BWB wanted to say those things,he probable would have done it right
>here in the open...
>
>I remain
>
>Chuck S
To Chuck Slusarczyl:
This little chicken shit (Chuck Shit-head Tripp) sends me two
unsolicited emails and gets those two responses from me, then the
coward posts them here. These were my responses to his unsolicited
email. He was a smart ass in his private email to me and I blew him
off. He dosen't need to post the headers, I sent the mail.
To Chuck Shit-Head Tripp:
Don't email me anymore you little coward. My email address is not for
your use. If you email me again, you'll get a response like you did
before. If you have something to say to me, say it here in this open
forum. I have no interest in your private thoughts or you cluttering
up my email box. Consider yourself warned.
If you do it again, I'm going to hunt you down like an animal.
Badwater Bill
Roger Halstead
John R. Johnson wrote in message ...
>And here, all these years, I thought the "propagation" delay was about
>nine months! :-)
>
>JOhn
>
>
>On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Peter S. Lert wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression that "propagation delay" is related to the
>> difference in speeds of light and sound--for example, the way you see
>> the lightning flash before you hear the thunder.
In one of its more recognizable forms it is the time from the point where my
wife reminds me that it's time to take out the garbage until I put the cans
out by the road the next morning.
>>
>> More germane to the present issue is that this is why many people appear
>> to be fairly bright until they begin to speak.
(and present themselves as a "dim bulb"?)
In this form "Propagation Delay" is the time measured from the point where
we decide to say something remarkable until we actually speak and say
something entirely different (and usually inappropriate)
While most of us are only slightly dyslexic (sp?) there is a small
percentage, but far more noticable, that suffer from diarea of the mouth.
Roger Halstead K8RI and EAA Chapter 1093 Historian
N833R World's oldest Debonair? S# CD-2
http://members.tm.net/rdhalste
>>
>>
Kevin Riley
Badwater Bill wrote:
> If you do it again, I'm going to hunt you down like an animal.
>
> Badwater Bill
I love it when you talk dirty. He He
I'd listen to him Chuck.
Life on USENET can be vary short.
Anybody know where the Holly Hand Grenade of Antioch got off to?
Carl A. Johansson
Roger Halstead wrote:
>
> John R. Johnson wrote in message ...
> >And here, all these years, I thought the "propagation" delay was about
> >nine months! :-)
> >
> >JOhn
> >
I always thought that it was a result of parents coming home to early
(or maybe just in time)
Carl A. Johansson
Charles Troy Tripp wrote:
>
> I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
>
> 1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
>
> 2) Eat shit and die you worm.
So you didn't take his advise???
>
> Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
On the other hand BWB does know how to turn on his line wrap.!!
dpi...@erolsxx.com
Carl A. Johansson wrote:
>
> Charles Troy Tripp wrote:
> >
> > I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question,
and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the
other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
> >
> >
> > 2) <Snip>
>
> So you didn't take his advise???
> >
> > Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical
school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
> On the other hand BWB does know how to turn on his line wrap.!!
> >
> >
> Carl Johansson, Chief Yahoo/Gonzo Biologist
As opposed to some people whose fishing line got wrapped around
themselves:
> BTW Phillips you missed out on spectacular day and 16 brown trout
> yesterday.
> Carl
You lie like a dog, Johansson!! You couldn't even catch the flu!!
Pastor Dave :)
John R. Johnson
On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Carl A. Johansson wrote:
> Roger Halstead wrote:
> >
> > John R. Johnson wrote in message ...
> > >And here, all these years, I thought the "propagation" delay was about
> > >nine months! :-)
> > >
> > >JOhn
> > >
> John,
> I always thought that it was a result of parents coming home to early
> (or maybe just in time)
> > >
Definately another and equally valid interpretation! How many more can
we come up with, now that Carl and I have picked off the cripples?
John
John R. Johnson
On 12 Mar 1998 ChuckSlusarczyk@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
> In article <350747A6...@mindspring.com>, Charles says...
> >
> >I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple
> >question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did,
> >thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up
> >with two e-mail messages that read:
> >
> >1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
> >
> >2) Eat shit and die you worm.
> >
> >Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical
> >school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
>
>
> Charles
> Any chance you could post BWB's e-mail to you complete with headers? Not that I
> doubt what your saying but to assertain that it in fact came from Bill. I tend
> to think if BWB wanted to say those things,he probable would have done it right
> here in the open...
>
> I remain
>
> Chuck S
>
>
Chuck, you are assuming that Charley here didn't actually send Billy some
kind of snide e-mail that he was merely replying in kind to!
Sometimes, one good turn deserves another! :-)
JOhn
JStricker
C'mon Bill,
Don't hold back, tell us all what you REALLY think about him.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Badwater Bill wrote in message <350e0b72....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>>Charles
>>Any chance you could post BWB's e-mail to you complete with headers? Not
that I
>>doubt what your saying but to assertain that it in fact came from Bill. I
tend
>>to think if BWB wanted to say those things,he probable would have done it
right
>>here in the open...
>>
>>I remain
>>
>>Chuck S
>
>
>To Chuck Slusarczyl:
>
>This little chicken shit (Chuck Shit-head Tripp) sends me two
>unsolicited emails and gets those two responses from me, then the
>coward posts them here. These were my responses to his unsolicited
>email. He was a smart ass in his private email to me and I blew him
>off. He dosen't need to post the headers, I sent the mail.
>
>To Chuck Shit-Head Tripp:
>
>Don't email me anymore you little coward. My email address is not for
>your use. If you email me again, you'll get a response like you did
>before. If you have something to say to me, say it here in this open
>forum. I have no interest in your private thoughts or you cluttering
>up my email box. Consider yourself warned.
>
JStricker
JRJ,
And here I always thought it was the difference in the delay of the wife
picking up my stuff off the counter and moving it (just less than the speed
of light) and picking her stuff up and moving it (something I have to time
with a calendar). This is really an educational forum.
JOhn "Don't you hate it when the left pinky doesn't let up on the shift key"
Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
sue
Bob, Ranck wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.980310102015.1088z-100000@reliant>, "John says...
> >
> >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, JStricker wrote:
> >
> >> I believe that's age discrimination sir. I'LL SUE!!!
no, that's me
sue***
replies to:
sue.k...@add.ssw.abbott.com
my opinions only. worth exactly what you paid.
sue
Carl A. Johansson wrote:
>
> On the other hand BWB does know how to turn on his line wrap.!!
and in this knowledge, BWB's stuff actually gets READ, vs. the
other stuff that just goes on and requires unnatural manipulations to
the screen!
sue
ChuckSlusarczyk
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.980312132259.1088X-100000@reliant>, "John says...
>Chuck, you are assuming that Charley here didn't actually send Billy some
>kind of snide e-mail that he was merely replying in kind to!
>
>Sometimes, one good turn deserves another! :-)
>
>JOhn
Very true,you know what they say about "assume" and I guess I suumed.
I just get "nerveous" when I hear BWB saying "Chuck I'm gonna hunt you down like
an animal" and "that Chicken shit Chuck".....Can't we call him Charley Tripp or
Charlette or something besides Chuck??? When someone see's references to
Chickens and Chuck the're liable to think it's me.....Oh the shame of it all!!!
To be mistaken for a fornicating worm!!!!I'm sure PB will write this up as
another disgruntled customer!!!!!!OOOH woe is me,it's a cruel world ooooohh
Charles Joseph Robert Slusarczyk aka Chuck the Good not to be confused with
Chuck the Bad Tripp Amen
Ronald James Wanttaja
In article <6ea6p3$o...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>, <who...@who.net> wrote:
>
>(Or am I really Ron W, I've got the 'bwahahaha' trademarked don't I? I mean, he
>does...)
Nah, you ain't me, I go "bwahahaha" in a higher-pitched voice.
who...@who.net
Hey, Charles, you're getting quite an introduction to the group! Yep, that's
our Bad Billy, sometimes he's a bit eager to buy the 'conspiracy' theory and
with a liberally administered dose of his favorite rat poison, becomes Bad
Bully... and while I myself don't take to uttering such invectives (well, not
usually...), if you find it offensive, hey that's usenet sometimes, maybe we
should commission a new T-shirt "I've been offended by BWB!" to go with your
"I've been zoomed!" collection...
Actually, to own both makes you kind of special - and you probably will get the
Zoomed one sooner or later...
(Now, just watch, BWB's been counting my ellipsis usage and is certain by now
that I'm the z-guy fer sure...) Bwahahahaha!!
(Or am I really Ron W, I've got the 'bwahahaha' trademarked don't I? I mean, he
does...) oh, just come to p-ville and find out...
And Tony can sleuth around with his headers and trailers and stuff...
Signed,
Whoami
Charles Troy Tripp <ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question, and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
>1) Go fuck yourself ass hole!
>2) Eat shit and die you worm.
>Naturally, BWB does this because by way of e-mail because, like your typical school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
>Badwater Bill wrote:
>> On 9 Mar 1998 18:46:52 GMT, YOUR NAME HERE <USER...@aros.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Charles Troy Tripp <ctt...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>My name is not Chuck, I've lurked for quite a while without making headway, >and your post is about as enlightening as a book of wet matches.
>> >
>> >Charles,
>> >
>> >When I discovered this group about a year ago I lurked for a few months to get a feel for what was going on before making my first post. I had no knowledge of Mr. Campbell or USAviator magazine and no axe to grind with anyone. Everytime I read a Don't waste your time on this guy Ric. He's either a plant from the
>> Cambell camp or he's too thick to get the drift.
>>
>> BWB
Geoff Thistlethwaite
Are we sure this isn't a Propaganda Delay?
JStricker wrote in message
<66BEA8F566EFD9AD.CE58A6A2...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
DHoyteXX
In article <3507DF...@montrose.net>, "Peter S. Lert"
<pete...@montrose.net> writes:
>More germane to the present issue is that this is why many people appear
>to be fairly bright until they begin to speak.
>
>
Peter,
It is just another form of propagation delay. You see, the mouth or keyboard
engages and emits before thought has a chance to propagation across to the old
grey matter.
Dan H.
Dan Hoyte PPL
Perpetual Student
Human responders: remove xx to send e-mail
John R. Johnson
Well Chuck the Good Chicken Guy ...
You do have a problem that way. Since NOBODY can spell your last name
correctly with any consistency, we tend to just read the "Chuck" part
and ignore the mispelled last name! :-)
John
On 12 Mar 1998 ChuckSlusarczyk@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
Carl A. Johansson
dpi...@erolsXX.com wrote:
>
> Carl A. Johansson wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I don't know who Badwater Bill is, and frankly, I don't care. I asked a simple question,
>
> and some of you took the time to answer. Those of you who did, thanks. BWB, on the
>
> other hand, was instantly insulting and has followed up with two e-mail messages that read:
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) <Snip>
> >
> > So you didn't take his advise???
> > >
>
> school-yard bully, he thinks he is intimidating. In reality, he's just sad.
>
>
> > >
> > >
>
> As opposed to some people whose fishing line got wrapped around
> themselves:
>
> > BTW Phillips you missed out on spectacular day and 16 brown trout
> > yesterday.
> > Carl
>
> You lie like a dog, Johansson!! You couldn't even catch the flu!!
>
> Pastor Dave :)
Alright Pope Pinkass the clueless
You say I lie like a dog - so whats your point???
If I'm not appropriating the truth for later use as an embelishing
verifyer of my tales, I do not belong in RAH.
As for my fishing prowness, it is legendary, and the legend is being
driven by my sorrily self inflated ego.
But you, above all others, as a fisher of men, should investigate my 3
part plan to guaranteed fishing sucess.
Step 1) grab the electroshock equipment from the fishsqueezers here at
the university, then go out and indiscrimanantly shock every stream you
can find until one produces lots of stunned fish floating to the
surface.
(By the way being a celibate man of the cloth, I can give you some
tips on how to rig your waders and the shocking unit so you'll have the
time of your life - even if no fish surface)
Step 2) carefully rig my pole put a worm on the hook and go "stocking
the wiley trout" (I think thats a breed like a rainbow or a brown trout)
that having failed we go to the secret weapon, the most aesthetically
pleasing- fly fishing
Step 3) The Gonzo high mountain flyfishing technique.
Rig a heavy duty fly rod, tie on the secret fly "the Nitroglycerine
cadisfly (TNT for short).
fire up the end of the fuse on the TNT cast it into a likely hole, and
wait for the bite.
Upon the bite the fish fly out of the hole and "leap" 20 or 30 feet into
the air. Experienced experts like me catch em out of midair, rookies
often need someone to pick up the fish and throw it to them. It is
extremely important that you either "catch" the fish in midair or catch
it when its thrown to you. If you DO NOT DO THIS you will be lieing to
the judge when you tell him you "caught the fish".
you ought to give it a try on your flock - uh I guess thats school of
listeners Pope Dave, I can almost guarantee a short term increase of
"donations"
And as for your "couldn't even catch the flu" comment
I catch hell almost every day
so there
--
Carl Johansson, Chief Yahoo/Gonzo Biologist