Altitude compensating carburator, bad news
Charles K. Scott
advocate going straight to the source for information of a technical
nature. Where better to find technical answers than from the people
who make the product?
Bruce Frank had asked me for details on the altitude compensating
carburator I'd mentioned and even though I'd been assuming for years
that such a beast existed I had to admit I'd never seen one. So I
asked the engine shop and had them scratching their heads. Uh oh, if
these guys didn't know of one then do they exist?
I checked the web, just asked to search for "Holley", and up came the
Holley web page. I called their tech number and after being on hold
for a while, talked with one of their tech reps. "Never heard of it",
he said.
Well, Holley makes a lot of carburators and makes them for a number of
different applications. If the people who make carburators haven't
heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
doesn't exist. I'm still going to carry on the search for a while
longer but it doesn't look likely I'm going to find anything that will
fit my manifold without enormous tinkering.
I'm sorry if I raised the anticipation level of folks who thought this
would be a pretty neat idea like I did. I'm also wondering where I
heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
a carburator that has a variable venturi.
So again my appologies for wetting any appetites.
Corky Scott
SkyFlyte
Rotax engines on homebuilts and ultralights. You don't see many since they are
quite expensive
bil kleb
>
> [...] If the people who make carburators haven't
> heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
FWIW: my 89 jeep grand wagoneer has an altitude compensating carburetor
according to the shop manual... i have not tried to figure out how it
works, but it is a rather large chamber at the back of the carburetor
that has a spring-loaded value.
you might try a dejanews search on the techincal car newsgroup: rec.autos.tech
--
bil <mailto:w.l....@larc.nasa.gov>
Ron Natalie
>
> Bruce Frank had asked me for details on the altitude compensating
> carburator I'd mentioned and even though I'd been assuming for years
> that such a beast existed I had to admit I'd never seen one. So I
> asked the engine shop and had them scratching their heads. Uh oh, if
> these guys didn't know of one then do they exist?
>
Yes, I have one on my plane. It is an option for the Bendix
PS-5 carb.
> I checked the web, just asked to search for "Holley", and up came the
> Holley web page.
Oh, you wanted an auto one. Sorry, never heard of one. Cars
don't change alt much. When I moved to Colorado, they just
manually reset it.
QDurham
altitude compensating carburators. In theory it seems plausable to make this
happen but possibly only with a carburator that has a variable venturi.
So again my appologies for whetting any appetites....>
Hi Corky.
Nice post. Maybe try Pratt and Whitney as I think they made the R4350's we had
in the old P2Vs. As I mentioned in an earlier post, they (early models at
least) had such "carbs". You could actually see the throttles move forward,
albeit v. slowly.
Big problem was if ice were to accumulate in the "carb" (obviously not a real
carb -- whatever they were called) the automatic feature kept compensating and,
sadly, obscuring the icing problem. Later models (I think) didn't have the
feature. May have been otehr problems with device as well -- for all I know
Quent.>
>
>
>
Paul Hastings
Most of the snowmobile manufactures have developed carbs that are altitude
compensating. These are generally put on the "mountain" type sleds.
Paul Hastings
Revelation Graphics
Charles K. Scott wrote in message <6rc720$q39$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>...
>Those of you who know me through this group know that I generally
>advocate going straight to the source for information of a technical
>nature. Where better to find technical answers than from the people
>who make the product?
>
>Bruce Frank had asked me for details on the altitude compensating
>carburator I'd mentioned and even though I'd been assuming for years
>that such a beast existed I had to admit I'd never seen one. So I
>asked the engine shop and had them scratching their heads. Uh oh, if
>these guys didn't know of one then do they exist?
>
>I checked the web, just asked to search for "Holley", and up came the
>Holley web page. I called their tech number and after being on hold
>for a while, talked with one of their tech reps. "Never heard of it",
>he said.
>
>Well, Holley makes a lot of carburators and makes them for a number of
>different applications. If the people who make carburators haven't
>heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
>doesn't exist. I'm still going to carry on the search for a while
>longer but it doesn't look likely I'm going to find anything that will
>fit my manifold without enormous tinkering.
>
>I'm sorry if I raised the anticipation level of folks who thought this
>would be a pretty neat idea like I did. I'm also wondering where I
>heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
>
>In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
>a carburator that has a variable venturi.
>
Scott Maley
I know that the Hiller UH-12D (Helicopter) uses an altitude compensating
carb on it's Lyc. VO-435 engine. I assume it can still be had used or
new, although maybe a tad expensive if you aren't used to buying
certified components... If you take a look at the TCDS for a Hiller
UH-12, I'm sure it would tell you the mfg and model of this carb. I can
probably find out this info if someone needs it.
QDurham wrote:
> Big problem was if ice were to accumulate in the "carb"
> (obviously not a real carb -- whatever they were called) the
> automatic feature kept compensating and, sadly, obscuring the
> icing problem. Later models (I think) didn't have the
> feature.
I guess Hiller was aware of this. In the place of the mixture control,
there is a carb-heat control. Standard procedure is to adjust this
control so that the carb-temp stays within a green-range (unlike the
ON-OFF application of conventional carb heat). I guess this doesn't
completely reduce the workload, but carb heat doesn't have to be
adjusted as often or as precisely as a mixture control.
My instructor used to comment: "The first indication of carb-ice in the
Hiller is silence..." (Like when the engine quits.)
sig@arco.com Tom O'Grady
carburetor. It was only sold in states with higher elevations like
Colorado. It was nominally a two-barrel, but had a small aneroid chamber
on the side of the carb and when the outside pressure dropped enough, it
opened up a third throat. I do not think that this had any jets in it, but
I cannot be sure. It might have even been a Holley, but I'm not sure.
--
Tom O'Grady, Professional Engineer
reply to ak_f...@hotmail.com
Charles K. Scott <Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu> wrote in
article <6rc720$q39$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>...
Wyle E. Coyote
early
flight training in them, and never touched a mixture control in a plane
until a
week ago, when I transitioned to a C152. The flight school with the Katanas
closed,
so I have to learn a new plane :-( Katanas use Rotax engines, so obviously
the
carbs are available.
They work quite well, though there were a couple incidents where something
went
wrong and the fuel consumption increased by about 40-50% until the fault was
corrected. Fortunately the failures were on the rich side! I'd say they are
generally reliable, because I only know of two problems in a fleet of 6
planes
flying almost all the time for a year.
SkyFlyte wrote in message
<199808181812...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Bela P. Havasreti
(Charles K. Scott) wrote:
Corky, check this link out:
Bela P. Havasreti CP-ASEL-I
SNJ-5 BuNo 91077 Basket case
NATA member #1742
EAA Warbirds of America (Cascade Warbirds Squadron #2)
Warbirds Worldwide
Puyallup, Washington USA
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2951
Tobus
mixture control, as others have said. If you look inside the carb,
however, there is a large piston that slides up and down (as installed
on the Rotax), increasing and decreasing the size of the passage the air
flows through. This might be the "variable venturi" that Corky referred
to.
I have the installation manual for the R-912...let me look into this and
post something more cogent.
Regards,
Martin
Patrick O'Neill
Stratus Subaru EA-81 conversions - you can see the large diaphragms in some
of his pictures.
--
Patrick O'Neill
ozo...@wolfenet.com - please remove the 'nospam' when responding
*** I am Homer of the Borg. Prepare to be assimil - OOH, donuts!***
Graham E Laucht
<skyf...@aol.com> writes
>Bing makes an altitude compensating carburetor which is used on a variety of
>Rotax engines on homebuilts and ultralights. You don't see many since they are
>quite expensive
A relatively low cost source would be the Bing Constant Velocity 40mm
bore 94/40/10X series fitted originally to BMW R series motorbikes.
They are broadly similar to those fitted to the Rotax 912/4 and Jabiru
2200 engines and will after jetting correctly give compensation up to
around 8,000' over ISA. Both aircraft engine variants are designed to go
full throttle on a cable break or linkage failure which is simple to
engineer even on the bike version.
Here in the UK they can be had for around $90-100 a pair second hand and
can be relifed for less then $30.
They do like a nice smooth air supply by the way and are tricky to sync
in pairs or multiples unless a good vacuum manometer is used.
Expect to swap out the diaphragm rubbers regularly as they suffer ozone
damage when flown.
--
Graham E Laucht
Jeremy Sholovitz
but here is what I can remember.
I finished my private training in the DV & DA model Katanas from
Diamond Aircraft. These use a Rotax 914 engine, internal reduction
gear, constant-speed prop, liquid-cooled heads & air-cooled cylindars,
and a CARBURETOR for fuel induction.
Now, there is absolutely NO mixture control. My flight instructor
told me at the time that the carburetor was altitude-compensating.
But sitting here right now and looking through the POH's for both
aircraft, there is simply no mention of mixture or the specifics of
the carb at all; there is simply a paragraph about carb heat.
When taking my checkride in the Katana, I seem to remember the DE
asking about mixture and altitude, and I gave him some short answer
about the theory, and when he asked me about it in the specific
aircraft, I duitifully repeated what my flight instructor had said to
me; the DE did not challenge this, and I passed the checkride.
Now, the POH does not say anything about what make/model of carb is
used, but perhaps this is a starting-point for your search. YMMV.
jeremy
Willard561
>Holley web page. I called their tech number and after being on hold
>for a while, talked with one of their tech reps. "Never heard of it",
>he said.
>
>
They never owned a VW I guess, there was
a altitude comp. main jet available for them, it
consisted of a altitude sensitive bellows, coupled to a needle in the jet. I
didn't have one on my Karman Ghia's (1965) so I can't say how they worked. I
think it was for the type 3's
Bill Higdon Willa...@aol.com
Dave Sutton
> Charles K. Scott <Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu> wrote in
> > I'm sorry if I raised the anticipation level of folks who thought this
> > would be a pretty neat idea like I did. I'm also wondering where I
> > heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
> >
> > In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
> > a carburator that has a variable venturi.
The M-14P engine (Russian radial) used on all Russian aerobatic
aircraft have aneroid controlled automatic mixture controlled carbs
which work fine, last forever, and have all had the carb heat function
removed as they do not apparently suffer from carb ice. We have operated
these for many years with no difficulty. I have no clue how it works (I just fly 'em!)
Likewise the engine on my Broussard (P&W R-985) has an auto-leaning carb,
two settings on mixture: auto-rich and auto-lean. Rich for T/O, lean for all
other. P&W R-2000 has a similar setup (from my limited DC-4 experience)
???????????????? On genav applications ????????????
Dave Sutton pil...@planet.net
Yak-50, Fouga Magister, DeHavilland Vampire, MiG-17
"There is no substitute for horsepower...."
IFLYAMPHIB
heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
doesn't exist. I'm still going to carry on the search for a while
longer but it doesn't look likely I'm going to find anything that will
fit my manifold without enormous tinkering.
"I'm sorry if I raised the anticipation level of folks who thought this
would be a pretty neat idea like I did. I'm also wondering where I
heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
a carburator that has a variable venturi."
Corky, Look at the Bing carbs used on the Rotax engines. The 912 utilizes
altitude compensating carbs as standard. You may also purchase them as an
option on the 2 cycle engines, although they are not cheap. I believe about
$400 per carb. Jim from Arnet Pereyra
Bruce A. Frank
on his own product. The Holley tech said that he knew of no carbs that
were leanable. Holley produced and may still produce carbs with
electronic leaning controlled by a ten posistion knob on the dash. The
carb that we first started to use on the Fords was the 34-4412, the 4412
designating a two barrel 500 cfm carb and the 34 indicated that the
model was the electronic leanable unit. It was ineffective and could not
lean above 5000 ft. though it was intended to provide advantage in races
like the Pikes Peak ralley.
Most of those using carbs, on both the Ford 3.8L and the Chevy 4.3L
V-6's, are using the McNeiley(my spelling of his name may not be
correct) leaning block that replaces the jets in the Holley carbs.
McNeiley's leaning devise allows for full adjustability of a Holley
card, going from full rich at WOT all the way down to lean cutoff. The
leaning blocks are available from Johnny at Northwest Aero.
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding
While trying to find the time to finish mine.
Steven D. Sharp
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
<snip some important stuff>
Most of those using carbs, on both the Ford 3.8L and the Chevy 4.3L
> V-6's, are using the McNeiley(my spelling of his name may not be
> correct) leaning block that replaces the jets in the Holley carbs.
> McNeiley's leaning devise allows for full adjustability of a Holley
> card, going from full rich at WOT all the way down to lean cutoff. The
> leaning blocks are available from Johnny at Northwest Aero.
Or truy this:
Tom McNeily
14001 East Williams Field Road
Gilbert, AZ 85296
(602) 899-7313
I have one of his units on a Holley 2300 (0-7884) 350cfm 2bbl. Tom also has
one for a 500cfm 2300 series. I got the last $75 unit, Tom told me he was
upping the price to$100, but will include everything you will need. You have
to plug the power valve (plug = $4), pull the jets, mount the accelerater
pump arm extender, put in 2 new gaskets (gaskets=$6 maybe), reassemble with
the supplied screws and go. I can adjust mixture at idle from way over rich
to shut off.
I have a picture if anyone is interested. Please E-mail me and I will send
it to you.
Tom is a hell of a nice guy and isn't making a dime on these units from what
I understand. He helps in any way he can.
Another option MAY be the Percy Performance mixture control available at
most major hot rod shops and thru Summit Racing.
For what it's worth.
--
Steven D. Sharp
coz...@earthlink.net
ICQ#: 9925394
Robert Chilcoat
>
> I sent email to Corky to let him know that his Holley contact was not up
> on his own product. The Holley tech said that he knew of no carbs that
> were leanable. Holley produced and may still produce carbs with
> electronic leaning controlled by a ten posistion knob on the dash. The
> carb that we first started to use on the Fords was the 34-4412, the 4412
> designating a two barrel 500 cfm carb and the 34 indicated that the
> model was the electronic leanable unit. It was ineffective and could not
> lean above 5000 ft. though it was intended to provide advantage in races
> like the Pikes Peak ralley.
>
10+ years ago I had a 451 Mercury wagon with a Rochester (I think) VV
(variable venturi) carburetor that compensated for EVERYTHING. It was
so complex (even had stepping motors adjusting some jets) that when it
stopped working near the end of its life (97,000 miles - ALMOST made it
to 100k) that I couldn't fix it even with the carb manual from Ford.
Hell, I couldn't even figure out which of the 25+ versions I had, and
that was with the manual spelling out how each one differed. I traded
the car in the end. That was right at the end of Detroit's failed
attempts to meet emission standards without fuel injection. I certainly
wouldn't recommend that particular beast for an aircraft, but they
exist(ed).
Bob
Some friends of mine got me a sweater for my birthday. I'd have
preferred a moaner or a screamer, but the sweater was OK.
-- Steven Wright
Scott Christensen
for a holley carb. It was manual however. He may still sell this?
In <6rc720$q39$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>Those of you who know me through this group know that I generally
>advocate going straight to the source for information of a technical
>nature. Where better to find technical answers than from the people
>who make the product?
>
>Bruce Frank had asked me for details on the altitude compensating
>carburator I'd mentioned and even though I'd been assuming for years
>that such a beast existed I had to admit I'd never seen one. So I
>asked the engine shop and had them scratching their heads. Uh oh, if
>these guys didn't know of one then do they exist?
>
>I checked the web, just asked to search for "Holley", and up came the
>Holley web page. I called their tech number and after being on hold
>for a while, talked with one of their tech reps. "Never heard of it",
>he said.
>
>Well, Holley makes a lot of carburators and makes them for a number of
>different applications. If the people who make carburators haven't
>heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
>doesn't exist. I'm still going to carry on the search for a while
>longer but it doesn't look likely I'm going to find anything that will
>fit my manifold without enormous tinkering.
>
>I'm sorry if I raised the anticipation level of folks who thought this
>would be a pretty neat idea like I did. I'm also wondering where I
>heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
>
>In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
>a carburator that has a variable venturi.
>
Johnny
manifold so I could mount 8 of them in side draft configuration.
Probably be too tall then to fit in anything without the 'hood scoop' to
go along with it. If I took them all apart and had the pieces chromed it
might look kinda neat though.
-j- (wonder if you get a break when you buy 8 of them?)
Bela P. Havasreti wrote:
>
> On 18 Aug 1998 15:36:32 GMT, Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu
> (Charles K. Scott) wrote:
>
Charles K. Scott
Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
> SU's
> may be running right now on some V-8 engined Rovers but I'm not sure
> they are of the diaphram or piston type, they may be ordinary downdraft
> versions, I'll ask the Rover group.
I did ask the Rover e-mail group and got a quick response, several in
fact. I learned that MG installed a special manifold for the Rover V-8
they installed in the MGB-V8 (this is the British Leyland liscensed
Buick/Olds 215). It had two SU's facing the rear feeding the intake
manifold through two long runners. The SU's were hung off the rear of
the engine. This was done in order to keep an unsightly bulge out of
the hood.
Then I heard from another guy who begged me not to fly behind SU carbs.
He said he can't keep his tuned for longer then one week at a time.
I've actually worked on SU's and can confirm that they can be
diabolically difficult to tune and adjust.
The search goes on.
Corky Scott
JStricker
Those Webers are truly a work of mechanical art. A well tuned set of them
could stay right with a mechanical fuel injection system on the top end and
give better derivability throughout the range.
Their problem was that they weren't reliable in the long term. They
required constant fiddling to keep them "right". I never tried the
auto-trans fluid though as I was told the only thing to make things right
again was Marvel Mystery Oil. (Which, BTW, can still be bought here in farm
country if somebody needs a supply and can't find it.)
John "Who's fixed more than one truck engine by dumping Marvel Mystery Oil
down the carb till it dies" Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Bruce A. Frank wrote in message <6rif4h$n...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>Isn't it interesting that the Australian group was able to get uniform
>mixture to each cylinder with their custom manifold and SU carbys. For a
>time in my life I worked as a mechanic in a British Sports Car shop in
>Augusta, GA. The fix for a rough running Healey or Jag was to remove the
>cap and pour auto trans fluid into the little reservoir on the carb.
>ALWAYS fixed the problem. Didn't work their long enough to learn the SU,
>Did learn a lot about the Webers 'cause they were on the Fiats (yes, I
>know they are not British cars, what do you expect in Augusta, GA) we
>sold. And I owned a screaming 600 Multipla. Weber makes a beautiful dual
>throat carb with full leaning ability and full adjustability on about 18
>other perameters. You can get it so far out of kilter that you have to
>send it back to the manufacture to put back at the default settings.
>Some builders found than with that carb you spent 2 hours fiddling for
>every 1 hour of flying. That's why I love those Holleys.
Bruce A. Frank
David Pincus
JStricker wrote:
> Those Webers are truly a work of mechanical art. A well tuned set of them
> could stay right with a mechanical fuel injection system on the top end and
> give better derivability throughout the range.
>
> Their problem was that they weren't reliable in the long term. They
> required constant fiddling to keep them "right".
I guess we all have different experiences. I had a three 2-barrel Weber setup
on a 4.4 Liter Ferrari V-12 365 GT that spec'd out from the factory at 368 hp.
That on 268 c.i. I owned it for 10 years and drove it daily for 4 years and
never once had a bit of trouble from the Webers. Maybe it was because it
was a factory setup and not some aftermarket kluge. It was tractable in
street traffic but really liked the open roads. Power all across the spectrum.
What a great engine it would be in a 2/3 scale Spit. Made that "ripping canvas"
blat that Ferraris (and Merlins) are famous for. Other than leaking oil (never
could get that completely stopped) I never had any major engine problems.
The engine and 5-speed transmission were excellent and reliable, at least
mine was.
I'd love to have it back again and race any RV down the P'ville Runway!
David Pincus
Rvbldr3170
<nwa...@northwest-aero.com> writes:
>In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
>> >a carburator that has a variable venturi.
Back in the 70's when I was drag racing, there was a variable venturi
carburetor that was marketed to the racers by a company called Kendig. "Dyno
Don" Nicholson used a pair of them on his A/FX Comet, and they sponsored the
car. I don't know whatever happened to the thing but it used vacuum lines from
the intake manifold, connected to pistons which were, in turn, connected to a
pair of opposed blade dampers and it responded to changes in manifold vacuum
and (supposedly) optimized the venturi opening for the requirements of the
engine at that particular throttle setting. It must not have been effective
because I haven't heard of it in the last 20 or so years, but the concept
sounds viable. He won a few races with it too. The drag racers though, only
cared about one throttle setting, WOT, and it may have been the wrong venue to
try and sell them.
EAA chapter 325 Newsletter Editor
RV-4 Chevy V-6 builder
Tinkerer, motorhead, and general gizmo-freak
"Heavier than air flying machines are impossible"
Regards,
Merle
Charles K. Scott
rvbld...@aol.com (Rvbldr3170) writes:
> Back in the 70's when I was drag racing, there was a variable venturi
> carburetor that was marketed to the racers by a company called Kendig. "Dyno
> Don" Nicholson used a pair of them on his A/FX Comet, and they sponsored the
> car. I don't know whatever happened to the thing but it used vacuum lines from
> the intake manifold, connected to pistons which were, in turn, connected to a
> pair of opposed blade dampers and it responded to changes in manifold vacuum
> and (supposedly) optimized the venturi opening for the requirements of the
> engine at that particular throttle setting. It must not have been effective
> because I haven't heard of it in the last 20 or so years, but the concept
> sounds viable. He won a few races with it too. The drag racers though, only
> cared about one throttle setting, WOT, and it may have been the wrong venue to
> try and sell them.
What with the information I've picked up over the last few days, it
appears that altitude compensating carbs do exist but most are either
old designs and fiendishly complicted or are of the SU variety which
even the people using them don't recommend.
There is also the possibility of using the Ellison Throttle Body device
which is a low pressure single point fuel injection type device. I
think it would work but Ellison has exhibited a propensity to denigrate
auto engine conversions (or at least that's the impression I get from
their Website) so I don't know how much help they'd be with the
installation or if they'd even be interested in selling one to me for
my project. I don't see why it wouldn't work though.
Corky Scott
Charles K. Scott
"Bruce A. Frank" <BAFRANK@**MailBlockŽ**.worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Some builders found than with that carb you spent 2 hours fiddling for
> every 1 hour of flying. That's why I love those Holleys.
There definately is a lot to be said for "setting and forgetting". I
had to work on a couple of carburational disasters called "Thermoquads"
in my mechanicking days. They were plastic bodied four barrels on
certain Chrysler models and required some 21 sequential checks and
adjustments during re-assembly and woe to the mechanic who skipped a
step or did one out of sequence. Lordy, it makes you wonder how any of
them ever worked right.
Corky Scott
Gregory Travis
>
> In article <6reo0q$a4d$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
> Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>
> > SU's
> > may be running right now on some V-8 engined Rovers but I'm not sure
> > they are of the diaphram or piston type, they may be ordinary downdraft
> > versions, I'll ask the Rover group.
>
> I did ask the Rover e-mail group and got a quick response, several in
> fact. I learned that MG installed a special manifold for the Rover V-8
> they installed in the MGB-V8 (this is the British Leyland liscensed
> Buick/Olds 215). It had two SU's facing the rear feeding the intake
> manifold through two long runners. The SU's were hung off the rear of
> the engine. This was done in order to keep an unsightly bulge out of
> the hood.
>
> Then I heard from another guy who begged me not to fly behind SU carbs.
> He said he can't keep his tuned for longer then one week at a time.
>
> I've actually worked on SU's and can confirm that they can be
> diabolically difficult to tune and adjust.
I've got (horrors) dual SUs on my P1800. My learning curve on them was
fairly steep and I can tune them, now, in about 1/2 hour using a
Uni-Syn.
Prior to breaking down and buying the Uni-Syn I used to use the "listen
through a hose" trick. The Uni-Syn makes life SO much easier!
I think the trick to the SUs is to always start from a known good reference
point. When I rebuilt them last year I made sure to measure the jet height
in the carb base and to mark both carbs on the jet adjusting nut where they
were both at the same height.
Now I just re-set each jet to the reference height and then make sure and
turn each adjusting nut the EXACT same amount as I hunt for peak RPM.
My SUs stay in adjustment pretty much all the time. I enrichen them
a 1/4 turn in the winter and wind it back in the summer. That's all there
is to it!
Like all carb adjustments, another key is to make sure your ignition and
valve timings are EXACTLY right before even trying to screw with the carbs.
I can't count how many times I've chased mixture settings fruitlessly
because the distributor shaft bushing was worn. Of course, starting with
good carbs is also a necessity. You won't get anywhere but bummer-ville
if your throttle shaft bushings are gone or the piston is sticking.
I used to have an old wagon with a pair of Stromberg carbs. I really hated
those. The best thing I ever did was replace the two of them with a
big Weber. It totally transformed the car and had a wicked throaty
growl to boot.
greg
--
greg travis "The coffee shop piano plays toe-tapping jazz,
gr...@littlebear.com thanks to its Windows operating system."
http://www.prime-mover.org/ --- Microsoft, in "The Future is Today"
Gregory Travis
Charles K. Scott <Charles.K.Scott@**NOSPAM**.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>I'm also wondering where I
>heard carburators automatic altitude compensating carburators.
>
>In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
>a carburator that has a variable venturi.
You don't need a variable venturi. You just need a way to (virtually)
adjust the size of the fuel jet.
Traditionally this has been done by using a sealed aneroid to bias the
pressure in the float chamber. The same technique can be used on
mechanical fuel injection by biasing the difference between impact and
venturi air pressure.
Lots of carbs and injection systems with automatic altitude adjustments
were built in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Continental and Precision still
build 'em.
Roger J.Hamlett
'problems', such as a tendency for the butterfly spindle to wear
quite quickly, resulting in changes to the mixture. The 45mm
horizontal variants (DCOE?) though proved very reliable in
competition vehicles, and compared to the best fuel injections of the
day, gave more power and better economy. There was also an allmost
identical 'clone', the Delorto, that offered larger venturied
versions. Isn't there a famous Sir Henry Royce quote that goes
something like:
'A carburetor, is an extremely complex device to ensure that an
engine at no time receives the correct mixture'.
Despite this the performance and reliability of this type of
carburetor was extremely good.
I too had a number of vehicles with these carbs, and they gave far
less trouble than the ignition systems of the day.
Best Wishes
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| EMail ro...@ttelmah.demon.co.uk http://www.ttelmah.demon.co.uk/ |
| A beard! A beard! cried Fly Nicholas.'By God, that's a good one!'|
| (Chaucer) |
Bruce A. Frank
I didn't mean to leave the impression that I didn't like Webers. I love
them but some versions were dogs just because of their complexity.
Johnny
-j-
Rvbldr3170 wrote:
>
> In article <35DBCED1...@northwest-aero.com>, Johnny
> <nwa...@northwest-aero.com> writes:
>
> >In theory it seems plausable to make this happen but possibly only with
> >> >a carburator that has a variable venturi.
>
> Back in the 70's when I was drag racing, there was a variable venturi
> carburetor that was marketed to the racers by a company called Kendig. "Dyno
> Don" Nicholson used a pair of them on his A/FX Comet, and they sponsored the
> car. I don't know whatever happened to the thing but it used vacuum lines from
> the intake manifold, connected to pistons which were, in turn, connected to a
> pair of opposed blade dampers and it responded to changes in manifold vacuum
> and (supposedly) optimized the venturi opening for the requirements of the
> engine at that particular throttle setting. It must not have been effective
> because I haven't heard of it in the last 20 or so years, but the concept
> sounds viable. He won a few races with it too. The drag racers though, only
> cared about one throttle setting, WOT, and it may have been the wrong venue to
> try and sell them.
>
Clare Snyder
wrote:
>Charles K. Scott wrote:
>>
>> [...] If the people who make carburators haven't
>> heard of an altitude compensating carburator then it's highly likely it
>> doesn't exist. [...]
>
>FWIW: my 89 jeep grand wagoneer has an altitude compensating carburetor
>according to the shop manual... i have not tried to figure out how it
>works, but it is a rather large chamber at the back of the carburetor
>that has a spring-loaded value.
>
>you might try a dejanews search on the techincal car newsgroup: rec.autos.tech
>
>--
>bil <mailto:w.l....@larc.nasa.gov>
Autolite VV carbs from early 80s? ford 302 and 351 ar altitude
compensating - and a REAL bugger to set up properly. They do, however,
exist. Toyota Tercels used a VV feedback carb about '87. Similar
design. SU and Strombergs can, aparrently, be made altitude
compensating without much difficulty. I believe it has something to do
with relocating a vent.
Snyder Enterprises
Appropriate Technology for the Information Age
Waterloo Ontario.
To reply please drop the r, and send to :
cls...@ibm.net
Too many misdirected replies plugging my mail box!!!
Willard561
Ken Rand used an SU on his originarl KR-1
Until it crapped out and he wound up landing short of the intended landing
area.
I had a Japanese copy of the SU on MY Datsun Roadster(2 of the
BEASTS!!!!!(carb's))
, boy did I hate having to work on them alot.
Bill Higdon
Willa...@aol.com
Clare Snyder
<jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>Bruce,
>
On the SU and Stromberg variants, the tranny fluid was a MUST as it
"damped" the plunger, giving the effect of an accelerator pump. Forget
to check the dampers and they would bog and backfire something awful.
On a Stromberg, the diaphragms would split, making things worse.
Lack of attention to the dampers caused a lot of carb fires on the
Vauxhaul HC, sold in canada as a Pontiac "any f'rens a yours aint
f'renz a mine" Firenzas in the seventies. Grat little car if you knew
how to look after them - I drove my $75 aquasition for almost 5 years,
and sold it to a friend who drove it another 3 or 4.
Bruce A. Frank
> There is also the possibility of using the Ellison Throttle Body device
> which is a low pressure single point fuel injection type device. I
> think it would work but Ellison has exhibited a propensity to denigrate
> auto engine conversions (or at least that's the impression I get from
> their Website) so I don't know how much help they'd be with the
> installation or if they'd even be interested in selling one to me for
> my project. I don't see why it wouldn't work though.
>
> Corky Scott
Jerry Schweitzer is using the Ellison on his Ford V-6 in his RV-6 and is
VERY happy with everything about it EXCEPT the exorbitant price. THe
only resistan that I have run in to with the company is that they can't
get the automotive people to understand the to set you up with the
correct model they don't want horse power or displacement, they want
swept volume. Since most of the automotive engines are running through a
PSRU then calculated cubic feet per minute is the way to get the flow
rate needed for the throttle body. If you have the bucks they'll sell
you the unit.
Bob U.
wrote:
>I guess we all have different experiences. I had a three 2-barrel Weber setup
>on a 4.4 Liter Ferrari V-12 365 GT that spec'd out from the factory at 368 hp.
Ahhh Pastor Dave.....
Just like Flip Wilson and his "Church of What's Happening Now" or
Reverend Ike of NYC fame...
Your Church of RAH certainly seems to afford you some of the finer
amenities of life.
Never did I didn't realize the folks here were all that well healed
although BWB has eluded to a godly, I mean goodly, number of RAH
millionaires. The only name that came to mind was that of Ron
Wanttaja. Maybe I have another list in mind. Damn, it 's hell getting
old.
Perhaps it was the P'ville video you claim you sold AT COST that
keeps you in your modest lifestyle of opulence... or was it some other
past practice or two or more?
But, I digress.
>>>>>>>>>>>> snipped stuff <<<<<<<<<
>
>I'd love to have it back again and race any RV down the P'ville Runway!
>
For something under 1320 feet maybe...
What did you say the rate of climb was on that 368 hp? <g>
You stand a better shot with the RV on a dragstrip, your irreverence.
Bob U.
JStricker
That's it. I can stand no more. I challenge anyone here, ANYONE, to prove
the superiority of automatic transmission fluid over Marvel Mystery Oil as a
fuel system supplement/cleaner/lubricant/unwanted pregnancy limiter/hair
tonic/laxative/etc./etc./etc.
The gauntlet of challenge has been thrown down. Govern yourselves
accordingly. :-)
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Clare Snyder wrote in message <35de2f19...@news2.ibm.net>...
Yoram Leshinski
> THe
> only resistan that I have run in to with the company is that they >can't
> get the automotive people to understand the to set you up with the
> correct model they don't want horse power or displacement, they want
> swept volume. Since most of the automotive engines are running through a
> PSRU then calculated cubic feet per minute is the way to get the flow
> rate needed for the throttle body.
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor
Can you say that again in plain english, please. Some of us are to damm
to understand the above (Me).
Yoram Leshinski
Bruce A. Frank
Hmmm... Lets see. OK, I didn't mean to sound obtuse. As I re-read it, I
made it sound complicated. It's how much fuel air mixture the engine
sucks in over a one minute period. At maximum revs (or where the engine
developes its peak horse power), the volume of a cylinder times the
number of cylinders receiving a charge of fuel/air per revolution times
RPM. That gives you the actual cubic feet per minute of flow through the
carbureter (usually refered to as "swept volume"). The carb that
adequately supplies a chev 350 cid at 3000 rpm on the road may not be up
to the job at 6000 rpm in an aircraft. This is no big deal. The people
at Ellison did the calculations for me when I called them a couple of
years ago. BTY, the Ford 3.8L V-6 (232 cid) works with the #5 Ellison
throttle body.
--
Gregory Travis
Bruce A. Frank <BAFRANK@**MailBlockŽ**.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Hmmm... Lets see. OK, I didn't mean to sound obtuse. As I re-read it, I
>made it sound complicated. It's how much fuel air mixture the engine
>sucks in over a one minute period. At maximum revs (or where the engine
>developes its peak horse power), the volume of a cylinder times the
>number of cylinders receiving a charge of fuel/air per revolution times
>RPM. That gives you the actual cubic feet per minute of flow through the
>carbureter (usually refered to as "swept volume"). The carb that
>adequately supplies a chev 350 cid at 3000 rpm on the road may not be up
>to the job at 6000 rpm in an aircraft. This is no big deal. The people
>at Ellison did the calculations for me when I called them a couple of
>years ago. BTY, the Ford 3.8L V-6 (232 cid) works with the #5 Ellison
>throttle body.
I think what Bruce is trying to say is that carburetors spec'd for ROAD
use on a given engine are usually undersized. If you want to get
maximum power from the engine, as you would in an aircraft or road racing
application, you need to fit a larger than stock carb.
Why are road carburetors undersized? Two reasons. The first is for
drivability. A carb large enough to not present a serious restriction to
airflow at high power will typically perform poorly at low power. Because
of the large venturis needed for adequate airflow at high power, velocity
past the same venturis at low power (low airflow) will be, well, very low.
This results in inadequate vaporization of the mixture, poor fuel metering,
terrible throttle response, etc.
The multi-stage/multi-barrel carb was developed to try and "fix" this problem
but, being a discrete (or is it discreet?) device it can only go so far.
Likewise, variable-venturie constant depression carbs like the Stromberg
and SUs are somewhat immune to it (but present their own particular
performance problems).
The second reason is manufacturing economy. If you know that it's very
unlikely that your engine will see more than 50% power demands for its life
then you can save quiet a bit of money by fittnig a smaller/cheaper carb
as standard.
It really has nothing, directly, to do with engine RPM. It's all about
the airflow necessary to produce a given amount of horsepower. That airflow
is demanded irrespective of if you're cycling 122 cubic inches through
6,000 RPM or 360 cubic inches through 2700 RPM.
Now you know why that MA-5 is so honkin' big and why your O-360 idles like
a steam engine.
Don
>
>>I guess we all have different experiences. I had a three 2-barrel Weber
setup
>>on a 4.4 Liter Ferrari V-12 365 GT that spec'd out from the factory at 368
hp.
>Ahhh Pastor Dave.....
>
>
>although BWB has eluded to a godly, I mean goodly, number of RAH
>millionaires. The only name that came to mind was that of Ron
>Wanttaja. Maybe I have another list in mind. Damn, it 's hell getting
>old.
> Perhaps it was the P'ville video you claim you sold AT COST that
>keeps you in your modest lifestyle of opulence... or was it some other
>past practice or two or more?
>
>But, I digress.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> snipped stuff <<<<<<<<<
>>
>>I'd love to have it back again and race any RV down the P'ville Runway!
I think someone should bring a Ferrari to P'ville 99 and we can have a pool
on how long it takes Rev. Pincus to get into it.
Don (not quite a millionaire) Hausman
JStricker
Sounds like a plan. A Countach would be even better, but for those on a
budget like mine a Fiero will do.
I'll bring the calendar to time the event, since I'm sure the batteries in
my stopwatch won't last that long.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Don wrote in message <6rq67h$orj$1...@supernews.com>...
Bob U.
>
> >
>>>I guess we all have different experiences. I had a three 2-barrel Weber
>setup
>>>on a 4.4 Liter Ferrari V-12 365 GT that spec'd out from the factory at 368
>hp.
>>Ahhh Pastor Dave.....
>>
> >
>>Never did I didn't realize the folks here were all that well healed
>>although BWB has eluded to a godly, I mean goodly, number of RAH
>>millionaires. The only name that came to mind was that of Ron
>>Wanttaja. Maybe I have another list in mind. Damn, it 's hell getting
>>old.
>> Perhaps it was the P'ville video you claim you sold AT COST that
>>keeps you in your modest lifestyle of opulence... or was it some other
>>past practice or two or more?
>>
>>But, I digress.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> snipped stuff <<<<<<<<<
>>>
>>>I'd love to have it back again and race any RV down the P'ville Runway!
>
>I think someone should bring a Ferrari to P'ville 99 and we can have a pool
>on how long it takes Rev. Pincus to get into it.
>
>Don (not quite a millionaire) Hausman
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If I wasn't so "Muzzle Loader Challenged" these days, I might stand a
chance of generating a great post like yourz.....
If we sell tickets for the pool at a buck apiece here in the
noozgroup, we will have money left over after buying the Ferrari.
Yep.. there are that many sick and demented minds willing to turn
loose of their hard earned sheckles . Since someone will have to hold
his camcorder during his attempt, we can click off a few cassettes and
sell them to PBS to replace that "homebuilt in 30 days" crap.
Bob U.
highflyer
>
> Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> > THe
> > only resistan that I have run in to with the company is that they >can't
> > get the automotive people to understand the to set you up with the
> > correct model they don't want horse power or displacement, they want
> > swept volume. Since most of the automotive engines are running through a
> > PSRU then calculated cubic feet per minute is the way to get the flow
> > rate needed for the throttle body.
> > --
> > Bruce A. Frank, Editor
>
> Can you say that again in plain english, please. Some of us are to damm
> to understand the above (Me).
>
> Yoram Leshinski
To properly size a carburetor you have to know approximately how much
air will pass through it in operation. That is free air, and is about
equal to the swept volume of the engine over time. A quick and dirty
swept volume calculation is displacement divided by two times the
RPM.
highflyer
>
> JStricker wrote:
> > Those Webers are truly a work of mechanical art. A well tuned set of them
> > could stay right with a mechanical fuel injection system on the top end and
> > give better derivability throughout the range.
> >
> > Their problem was that they weren't reliable in the long term. They
> > required constant fiddling to keep them "right".
>
> on a 4.4 Liter Ferrari V-12 365 GT that spec'd out from the factory at 368 hp.
> never once had a bit of trouble from the Webers. Maybe it was because it
> was a factory setup and not some aftermarket kluge. It was tractable in
> street traffic but really liked the open roads. Power all across the spectrum.
> What a great engine it would be in a 2/3 scale Spit. Made that "ripping canvas"
> blat that Ferraris (and Merlins) are famous for. Other than leaking oil (never
> could get that completely stopped) I never had any major engine problems.
> The engine and 5-speed transmission were excellent and reliable, at least
> mine was.
>
>
Jaguars, Ferraris, and Radials are SUPPOSED to leak oil.
JStricker
You left out Internationals (IHC's, In Hell Constantly). They're not happy
unless they're sitting over a puddle of oil so if you can park over one to
begin with, you'll save yourself some leakage. If the concrete is clean,
they'll spring a leak just to soil it. (Kinda like BWB)
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
highflyer wrote in message <35E1C2...@alt.net>...
Don
Don (BMW's don't leak) Hausman
JStricker wrote in message
<914D0A35EB7B1E29.B305D518...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>Flyer,
>
>You left out Internationals (IHC's, In Hell Constantly). They're not happy
>unless they're sitting over a puddle of oil so if you can park over one to
>begin with, you'll save yourself some leakage. If the concrete is clean,
>they'll spring a leak just to soil it. (Kinda like BWB)
>
>John Stricker
>
>>Jaguars, Ferraris, and Radials are SUPPOSED to leak oil.
Clare Snyder
<jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>Clare,
>
>That's it. I can stand no more. I challenge anyone here, ANYONE, to prove
>the superiority of automatic transmission fluid over Marvel Mystery Oil as a
>fuel system supplement/cleaner/lubricant/unwanted pregnancy limiter/hair
>tonic/laxative/etc./etc./etc.
>
>The gauntlet of challenge has been thrown down. Govern yourselves
>accordingly. :-)
>
Use the Mystery stuff if you like - will likely do the job. But for
heaven's akes, USE SOMETHING. An empty damper is a no-no!!!!
highflyer
>
> Flyer,
>
> You left out Internationals (IHC's, In Hell Constantly). They're not happy
> unless they're sitting over a puddle of oil so if you can park over one to
> begin with, you'll save yourself some leakage. If the concrete is clean,
> they'll spring a leak just to soil it. (Kinda like BWB)
>
> John Stricker
>
I've certainly noticed that tendency with my airplane. When I park
it over my oil catching pan it doesn't leak at all! :-) Park it over
a clean spot of concrete and it will nail it every time.
Chris Schuermann
BTW,
I have bendix PS5-BD altitude compensating carbs on my
1953 Aero Commander. They work remarkably well. Just leave
the mixtures in the full-rich (auto) position except for
engine shutdown. Once the motors are stopped, advance the
levers back open to keep from damaging the diaphrams.
They use a nitrogen filled bellows for alt. compensation.
They also have an "extra rich" full throttle setting that
auto leans to "ideal" below %75.
Really a remarkable piece of engineering for the time. I've
never had a bit of trouble with 'em, and they're just about
the easiest-to-start engines I've ever run. If only the
IO-540 in my Viking was as easy to hot start.....
Chris Schuermann
Ric & Shari Lee
motorcycle back in our high school daze and brought it over to my house to show
me. While I was standing there admiring his new toy my father walked up an said
"Hummmm. Still has the same oil leak mine had 20 years ago."
Ric
Don wrote:
> You also left out Harleys. If it's not leaking oil, it must be out of oil.
> Don (BMW's don't leak) Hausman
>
> JStricker wrote in message
> <914D0A35EB7B1E29.B305D518...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
> t>...
> >Flyer,
> >
> >You left out Internationals (IHC's, In Hell Constantly). They're not happy
> >unless they're sitting over a puddle of oil so if you can park over one to
> >begin with, you'll save yourself some leakage. If the concrete is clean,
> >they'll spring a leak just to soil it. (Kinda like BWB)
> >
> >John Stricker
> >
>
JStricker
Don't get me started on Brit Bikes. Bosch Electric's, Britain's way of
getting even with the Americans for winning the Revolutionary War.
John Stricker
Royal Enfield, the first, only, and true Interceptor
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Ric & Shari Lee wrote in message
<6s2bcd$1t7$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Chasmo
Lightning. Great bike! Worst bike...Kawasaki Mach III. Handled like it
had a hinge under the seat, and you best wear thick soled shoes because
you needed them to help stop the beast, but in a straight line....hold
on!
Chasmo
--
MZ
JStricker
You shoulda tried the 750 Kaw. Absolutely greased lightening that you could
never tell where it was going to go.
And before it hits my server, yes, Pasture Dave, I had a mental lapse, it
should have been LUCAS electric's and not Bosch. I'm doing my penance now
by eating old electrical insulation.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Chasmo wrote in message <6s2oqn$juo$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
Chasmo
Never rode one, but the 500 certainly got my attention! After-market
tuners circa-19 68-70 had the 750 turning the quarter in the mid to low
ten's at 130+mph and this was a "streetable" bike! One in a modern frame
and with good brakes would still be an awesome machine.
I'll always have a soft spot for those Beezer's though, a great crusing
bike.
CHas
JStricker
It takes more than that to humiliate me. Brain farts are all too common
with me and I know enough that the Yahoo's here are very forgiving as long
as you're man enough to admit you've f****d up. It's when you try to lie
your way out of it you're in trouble.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
David Pincus wrote in message <6s4vum$pqd$1...@winter.news.erols.com>...
>
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:19:12 -0500, "JStricker" wrote:
>>> Don't get me started on Brit Bikes. Bosch Electric's, Britain's way of
>>> getting even with the Americans for winning the Revolutionary War.
>>>
>
>> John Stricker wrote:
>>
>> >And before it hits my server, yes, Pasture Dave, I had a mental lapse,
it
>> >should have been LUCAS electric's and not Bosch. I'm doing my penance
now
>> >by eating old electrical insulation.
>
>
>No, go back and take a look John. That was an email I sent you. I would
never
>knowingly embarrass one as knowledgeable as you by public humilliation for
>making such a glaring error. I was sure you knew the right answer, but that
>you probably just had a brain fart while typing it up. :)
>
>'Pastor' Dave
>
JStricker
You made me spew Coke all over. You reminded me of my younger brother.
After he rode my Yamaha 400 dirt bike the first time (this was the old one,
with the single cylinder 2 stroke and rotten suspension), he came back and
said "It's kinda flaky in the rear end but you can drive out of it after
about 90mph or so". This was in our pasture at the time.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
Glenn Scherer wrote in message ...
>On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:19:12 -0500, "JStricker"
><jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>>Chaz,
>>
>>You shoulda tried the 750 Kaw. Absolutely greased lightening that you
could
>>never tell where it was going to go.
>>
>>
>>Chasmo wrote in message <6s2oqn$juo$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>>>One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was getting rid of my BSA
>>>Lightning. Great bike! Worst bike...Kawasaki Mach III. Handled like it
>>>had a hinge under the seat, and you best wear thick soled shoes because
>>>you needed them to help stop the beast, but in a straight line....hold
>>>on!
>>>Chasmo
>
>They built them that way on purpose, guys. Separated the riders from
>the chaff. :) Kept it up through the 900/1000 series, too.
>
>Glenn "Wobble? What wobble?" Scherer
>
Chasmo
>
> They built them that way on purpose, guys. Separated the riders from
> the chaff. :) Kept it up through the 900/1000 series, too.
>
> Glenn "Wobble? What wobble?" Scherer
I don't think so..but if they did, it worked on me. Laying that dog down
in a corner and having it side-step into oncoming traffic was NOT my
idea of a good time. Ditto having the brakes fade while still doing 50
or so. Great engine though.
Chasmo
Daryl1953M
>getting even with the Americans for winning the Revolutionary War.
ah, might you mean Lucas? The reason brits drink warm beer?
Best Wishes,
Daryl
Living Past Commodore in the Kansas Navy . . . . .yeah, I know, you'd be a bit
crabby too.
John Ousterhout
<jstr...@odsys.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>And before it hits my server, yes, Pasture Dave, I had a mental lapse, it
>should have been LUCAS electric's and not Bosch. I'm doing my penance now
>by eating old electrical insulation.
Ah yes, Lucas the prince of darkness. It was years before I learned
that the founder of that company was Joseph Lucas, I had only heard
him referred to as God Damned Lucas.
On a related note --
Q: Why do they say "There will always be an England"?
A: Because when they finally turn shut off that great ignition key
off the country will just keep running on.
-John Ousterhout -
FORMER British auto and motorcycle owner.
David Pincus
>
> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:19:12 -0500, "JStricker" wrote:
>> getting even with the Americans for winning the Revolutionary War.
>>
> John Stricker wrote:
>
> >And before it hits my server, yes, Pasture Dave, I had a mental lapse, it
> >should have been LUCAS electric's and not Bosch. I'm doing my penance now
> >by eating old electrical insulation.
Glenn Scherer
>Chaz,
>
>You shoulda tried the 750 Kaw. Absolutely greased lightening that you could
>never tell where it was going to go.
>
>
>Chasmo wrote in message <6s2oqn$juo$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>>One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was getting rid of my BSA
>>Lightning. Great bike! Worst bike...Kawasaki Mach III. Handled like it
>>had a hinge under the seat, and you best wear thick soled shoes because
>>you needed them to help stop the beast, but in a straight line....hold
>>on!
>>Chasmo
They built them that way on purpose, guys. Separated the riders from
highflyer
>
> Glenn,
>
> You made me spew Coke all over. You reminded me of my younger brother.
> After he rode my Yamaha 400 dirt bike the first time (this was the old one,
> with the single cylinder 2 stroke and rotten suspension), he came back and
> said "It's kinda flaky in the rear end but you can drive out of it after
> about 90mph or so". This was in our pasture at the time.
>
> John Stricker
>
Is that the brother who is the professional pilot, John?
highflyer
It is a problem, at you age, you become more flatulent.
JStricker
I've noticed a rather alarming trend in the flatulence direction that even
the old standard "It wasn't me" or the looking at the cat or even the tried
and true "Chris, what did you do?" aren't covering for me anymore.
Oh well, I knew I wouldn't stay young forever.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
highflyer wrote in message <35E6F1...@alt.net>...
JStricker
Nope. That was my younger brother. My older brother that is the
professional pilot was always into street bikes. His last one, a few years
ago, was a Honda 1100 Interceptor. Hence my Royal-Enfield remark.
John Stricker
--
Remove the "nosp..........." Oh hell, you folks know what to do and
why I had to put it in. If one of you real humans wants to contact me:
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to become a vegetarian"
highflyer wrote in message <35E6F0...@alt.net>...
Frank Stutzman
I've heard it refered to as a "flow through filtration system". Pour
it in the top and it flows right through and out the bottom.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B
Hood River Oregon
Bob U.
wrote:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hee, hee.
Can you make P'ville next year.
You'll fit right in!
Pastor Dave will be glad to meet ya, I'm sure.
Bob U.
highflyer
>
> >> >>Jaguars, Ferraris, and Radials are SUPPOSED to leak oil.
>
> I've heard it refered to as a "flow through filtration system". Pour
> it in the top and it flows right through and out the bottom.
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B
> Hood River Oregon
When it gets serious, like a Gnome or an F-86, it is called a
"single pass" lubrication system. I usually only throw about
a pint an hour. Just enough to keep the belly well lubricated
and keep my tailwheel loose.
highflyer
>
> >>> >>Jaguars, Ferraris, and Radials are SUPPOSED to leak oil.
> >
> >I've heard it refered to as a "flow through filtration system". Pour
> >it in the top and it flows right through and out the bottom.
> >
> >Frank Stutzman
> >Bonanza N494B
> >Hood River Oregon
> Hee, hee.
> Can you make P'ville next year.
> You'll fit right in!
>
> Pastor Dave will be glad to meet ya, I'm sure.
>
> Bob U.
Maybe he can arrange to fly out in that Banana with Oysterhouse.