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Ashton Crusher
May 14, 2012, 8:12:18 PM5/14/12
to
I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. It scopes out fine
yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
set a code. No codes have popped up. Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
right up to redline in any gear.
saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. It scopes out fine
yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
set a code. No codes have popped up. Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
right up to redline in any gear.
jim beam
May 14, 2012, 11:08:59 PM5/14/12
to
cylinders from the plugs on the right might indeed be running lean, but
they're also burning oil. that is one whole lot of ash accumulated, and
beyond the threads, the plug bodies are wet with it. it would explain
why it runs fine on new plugs and misfires when the ash accumulates -
weakened spark insulation at idle when voltage requirements are high.
if you don't want to fix the oil situation, i'd run some injector
cleaner through it and just keep changing the plugs - they're cheap
enough. and the codes will remain fine until the catalytic
converter/oxygen sensors get ashed up and lose efficiency.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
richard
May 14, 2012, 11:10:38 PM5/14/12
to
Those were changed after 5,000 miles?
Then by their appearance, you also may have a minor water problem.
The only way to know what is causing the problem is to tear down the block
and inspect for hairline ftactures.
m6onz5a
May 15, 2012, 5:51:30 AM5/15/12
to
correct plugs for your vehicle? Have you replaced them several times
and each time they last about 5k? Is your valve cover leaking?
I'm having a similar problem as well on my '98 Plymouth Breeze 2.4L.
I have an occasional miss at idle and changing my plugs corrected this
problem, but 3 weeks later the miss has returned. I may try another
set of plugs (cheapest fix first) and see if I may have a defective
plug.
jim
May 15, 2012, 8:34:31 AM5/15/12
to
hasn't been firing at idle. Have you checked compression?
Is the miss just one cylinder going "pfft pfft pfft" at idle and
then it smoothes out when revved.
What does "It scopes out fine" mean?
Did you looked at the secondary using an Oscilloscope and
see no difference in the spark form on all cylinders?
-jim
Ashton Crusher
May 15, 2012, 11:40:19 AM5/15/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 17:12:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net>
wrote:
Thanks for the replies. From the questions asked here is more info to
answer them and see if anyone has further thoughts.
The engine runs like new power wise, other then this miss. It doesn't
burn any oil between changes or 3000 mile+. Only needs more coolant
perhaps once or twice a year, never blows white smoke or any other
smoke on startup. The shop that "fixed it" last year said they could
find no problems when I brought it in as it was running fine that day.
The ignition looked "fine" by whatever test equipment they used. I
brought it back two days later because it started acting up again.
This time they could occasionally experience the problem while driving
but could still find nothing when they "tested" it. They did a fuel
injector cleaning and gave it back to me. It ran the same with the
occasional miss. I brought it back. At this point it had some bosch
double plats in it that I had put in about 5K earlier. The mechanic
didn't like the bosch plugs and said he thought it was the plugs even
though they "tested" OK. So I told him to go ahead and put whatever
plugs he liked in it which as Motorcraft copper core. When it got it
back it ran fine and continued to run fine until recently when it
started the same miss again.
Here's a more complete description of the "miss". Sometimes it will
idle ok but when you start up you can feel a miss that feels like a
single cylinder. That may persist till you get it up to about 2000
rpm and then it goes away. On the freeway it's fine, kick it into
passing gear and it's fine. Sometimes it will have what feels like
the single cylinder miss but as you accelerate normally, say from a
stop light, it gets to 1200 rpm and feels like all of a sudden 2 or 3
cylinders are missing and it losses power significantly. This may
last for a few seconds and then it clears up and goes back to a single
cyl type miss and then goes away. I thought it was ignition till I
read the below...I'm on the road now so I'm just hopping three new
plugs will eliminate the problem for a few weeks.
From the net....
I had the same problem with my '95. Low RPM miss I couldn't track
down. Did all the usual checks/replacements of vacuum leaks, plugs,
wires, coil pack, sensors, etc... Then I decided to check the
resistance I was getting off of my injectors after none of that
resulted in the miss getting fixed. BINGO! even though I wasn't
getting a CEL, the truck was running lean, but not lean enough to
throw a code. I had 2 bad injectors, and another 2 reading higher than
normal. Normal range is between 13 and 19 Ohms. One was way off
intermittently at 54 Ohms, and another was just over 24. the other 2
were just about 21 Ohms, definitely out of spec.
So I ordered a new set of 6 ( what is the point of just replacing the
ones that were bad, seeing the others could go at any time as well)
from a place online. $120 for all 6 shipped, can't beat that deal
anywhere! And they are FORD parts.
Anyway's, after getting them all installed (about 2 hours of work
total) The miss was gone and has been running like it was brand new
ever since.
I was ready to start throwing parts at it
wrote:
answer them and see if anyone has further thoughts.
The engine runs like new power wise, other then this miss. It doesn't
burn any oil between changes or 3000 mile+. Only needs more coolant
perhaps once or twice a year, never blows white smoke or any other
smoke on startup. The shop that "fixed it" last year said they could
find no problems when I brought it in as it was running fine that day.
The ignition looked "fine" by whatever test equipment they used. I
brought it back two days later because it started acting up again.
This time they could occasionally experience the problem while driving
but could still find nothing when they "tested" it. They did a fuel
injector cleaning and gave it back to me. It ran the same with the
occasional miss. I brought it back. At this point it had some bosch
double plats in it that I had put in about 5K earlier. The mechanic
didn't like the bosch plugs and said he thought it was the plugs even
though they "tested" OK. So I told him to go ahead and put whatever
plugs he liked in it which as Motorcraft copper core. When it got it
back it ran fine and continued to run fine until recently when it
started the same miss again.
Here's a more complete description of the "miss". Sometimes it will
idle ok but when you start up you can feel a miss that feels like a
single cylinder. That may persist till you get it up to about 2000
rpm and then it goes away. On the freeway it's fine, kick it into
passing gear and it's fine. Sometimes it will have what feels like
the single cylinder miss but as you accelerate normally, say from a
stop light, it gets to 1200 rpm and feels like all of a sudden 2 or 3
cylinders are missing and it losses power significantly. This may
last for a few seconds and then it clears up and goes back to a single
cyl type miss and then goes away. I thought it was ignition till I
read the below...I'm on the road now so I'm just hopping three new
plugs will eliminate the problem for a few weeks.
From the net....
I had the same problem with my '95. Low RPM miss I couldn't track
down. Did all the usual checks/replacements of vacuum leaks, plugs,
wires, coil pack, sensors, etc... Then I decided to check the
resistance I was getting off of my injectors after none of that
resulted in the miss getting fixed. BINGO! even though I wasn't
getting a CEL, the truck was running lean, but not lean enough to
throw a code. I had 2 bad injectors, and another 2 reading higher than
normal. Normal range is between 13 and 19 Ohms. One was way off
intermittently at 54 Ohms, and another was just over 24. the other 2
were just about 21 Ohms, definitely out of spec.
So I ordered a new set of 6 ( what is the point of just replacing the
ones that were bad, seeing the others could go at any time as well)
from a place online. $120 for all 6 shipped, can't beat that deal
anywhere! And they are FORD parts.
Anyway's, after getting them all installed (about 2 hours of work
total) The miss was gone and has been running like it was brand new
ever since.
I was ready to start throwing parts at it
Orval Fairbairn
May 15, 2012, 12:25:20 PM5/15/12
to
In article <fgp4r7l2tc3bl0gbp...@4ax.com>,
Have you checked your fuel filter? Do you have water contamination in
the fuel? Try changing out the fuel filter and see if the problem goes
away.
It is not uncommon to get contaminated fuel -- especially if you fuel up
during or shortly after (<1 hr) the gas station has received a new load
of gas.
Does the car sit outside a lot overnight? This can result in
condensation of atmospheric water in the tank.
the fuel? Try changing out the fuel filter and see if the problem goes
away.
It is not uncommon to get contaminated fuel -- especially if you fuel up
during or shortly after (<1 hr) the gas station has received a new load
of gas.
Does the car sit outside a lot overnight? This can result in
condensation of atmospheric water in the tank.
Jim Yanik
May 15, 2012, 7:18:58 PM5/15/12
to
Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net> wrote in
news:fgp4r7l2tc3bl0gbp...@4ax.com:
have you replaced your plug WIRES? distributor cap/rotor?
the wires do get old and begin to break down. Then your plugs will misfire.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
news:fgp4r7l2tc3bl0gbp...@4ax.com:
the wires do get old and begin to break down. Then your plugs will misfire.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Ashton Crusher
May 15, 2012, 7:45:24 PM5/15/12
to
On Tue, 15 May 2012 18:18:58 -0500, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
wrote:
Wires are only a couple years old. Took it out for a drive tonight
with the three new plugs in it and it purred like a kitten, not a
single miss. When I get home I'm going to pull one of the plugs on
the other side and see what that side looks like but it seems that
side is OK.
wrote:
with the three new plugs in it and it purred like a kitten, not a
single miss. When I get home I'm going to pull one of the plugs on
the other side and see what that side looks like but it seems that
side is OK.
jim beam
May 15, 2012, 11:27:04 PM5/15/12
to
dodgy. they may be making connection now because you've just
manipulated them fitting the new plugs, but it doesn't mean they're 100%
good. just like being only 2 years old doesn't mean they're good.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Jim Yanik
May 16, 2012, 10:58:36 AM5/16/12
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jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote in news:jov6q7$j92$2...@speranza.aioe.org:
constant pulling of the plug wires can damage the center
conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
astray,under certain conditions.
Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
astray,under certain conditions.
Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
jim beam
May 16, 2012, 10:16:27 PM5/16/12
to
On 05/16/2012 07:58 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
<brevity>
>
> Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
yup. but if it's a rotor, it's usually a problem affecting all
cylinders, not just one.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
<brevity>
>>
>
> constant pulling of the plug wires can damage the center
> conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
> or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
> astray,under certain conditions.
indeed.
>
> constant pulling of the plug wires can damage the center
> conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
> or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
> astray,under certain conditions.
>
> Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
cylinders, not just one.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Ashton Crusher
May 17, 2012, 12:15:22 AM5/17/12
to
computer and coil pack and pickup coil down by the harmonic balancer.
One of the reasons I'm leaning toward the fuel injectors as the
underlying problem is that in the past when I've had ignition system
problems they were the worst at high load/high rpm. In this case the
problem goes away at high load-high rpm. I wonder if what I'm
perceiving as a "Miss" is really knocking from too lean a mixture.
m6onz5a
May 17, 2012, 5:15:58 AM5/17/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'd replace the wires first. That is your next weakest point. Since
you moved the wires your problem has stopped for the time being. I'm
having the same issue w/ my car and I'm gonna replace the wires next.
Jim Yanik
May 17, 2012, 8:38:13 AM5/17/12
to
Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net> wrote in
news:u8u8r71tppi7m0sl9...@4ax.com:
Clive
May 17, 2012, 11:25:56 AM5/17/12
to
In message <XnsA05657DC9C01F...@216.168.3.44>, Jim Yanik
<jya...@abuse.gov> writes
I know it's considered out of date and very seldom practised nowadays,
but "Pinking" or pre-ignition can sometimes be caused by a build up of
carbon near the plug in the head which glows red hot as the engine gets
warm. A good 100mile blast as hard as you can down a motorway normally
burns that off. The usual reason for carbon buildup is if the engine
is under utilised, to lightly loaded or never given for more than a few
mile as a time.
--
Clive
<jya...@abuse.gov> writes
but "Pinking" or pre-ignition can sometimes be caused by a build up of
carbon near the plug in the head which glows red hot as the engine gets
warm. A good 100mile blast as hard as you can down a motorway normally
burns that off. The usual reason for carbon buildup is if the engine
is under utilised, to lightly loaded or never given for more than a few
mile as a time.
--
Clive
hls
May 17, 2012, 11:45:44 AM5/17/12
to
"Clive" <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> I know it's considered out of date and very seldom practised nowadays, but
> "Pinking" or pre-ignition can sometimes be caused by a build up of carbon
> near the plug in the head which glows red hot as the engine gets warm. A
> good 100mile blast as hard as you can down a motorway normally burns that
> off. The usual reason for carbon buildup is if the engine is under
> utilised, to lightly loaded or never given for more than a few mile as a
> time.
> --
white slag of mineral deposits, it would appear. There is also a little
red
color to some of these, which could be iron/rust.
Nontheless, these deposits can cause the pinging you describe in the same
way as carbon deposits.
But where is this coming from? If antifreeze were bleeding into the
cylinders,
it might give this sort of scale product. Some kinds of oil additives might
also burn off white like these deposits.
5000 miles is too short a time to use up a set of plugs traditionally.
Something
here doesnt quite fit.
m6onz5a
May 17, 2012, 2:53:56 PM5/17/12
to
On May 14, 8:12 pm, Ashton Crusher <j...@here.net> wrote:
installed as well?
Vic Smith
May 17, 2012, 3:47:06 PM5/17/12
to
Good point about which plug. In my experience OEM is best.
Those plugs look oil fouled. Not bad though, and it's running good
enough to burn off most the oil.
Could be blowby, could be valve seals.
For valves seals oil gets sucked in at higher vacuum, backing down on
speed or idling.
I had a Ford 352 that would use a quart every 500 miles in local
driving. Went on a 3000 road trip and didn't use a quart.
Pissed me of because I had completely rebuilt it, but the shop I took
the heads to screwed up on the valve seals.
Without the miss the plugs may stay clean. Maybe.
You don't mention miles on the engine.
I've never had luck pinpointing bad injectors. Just did OHM tests
though. Always bit the bullet and put all new in.
'92 is getting long in the tooth. You might want to run a compression
test before you throw money at it.
--
Vic
Clive
May 17, 2012, 4:10:22 PM5/17/12
to
In message
<66b337ae-46b9-4a61...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
m6onz5a <cor...@comcast.net> writes
I've just had a quick look, the left one looks to be OK the right two
definitely look like lean mixture to me.
--
Clive
<66b337ae-46b9-4a61...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
m6onz5a <cor...@comcast.net> writes
definitely look like lean mixture to me.
--
Clive
Clive
May 17, 2012, 4:16:07 PM5/17/12
to
In message <djjar7pfjferuh570...@4ax.com>, Vic Smith
<thismaila...@comcast.net> writes
from a idle. At that age the injectors can be either electronic or
mechanical depending on the system used. Bosch made both, but I don't
know anything about American cars.
--
Clive
<thismaila...@comcast.net> writes
>I just started here, so excuse me if this was covered.
>Good point about which plug. In my experience OEM is best.
>Those plugs look oil fouled. Not bad though, and it's running good
>enough to burn off most the oil.
>Could be blowby, could be valve seals.
>For valves seals oil gets sucked in at higher vacuum, backing down on
>speed or idling.
>I had a Ford 352 that would use a quart every 500 miles in local
>driving. Went on a 3000 road trip and didn't use a quart.
>Pissed me of because I had completely rebuilt it, but the shop I took
>the heads to screwed up on the valve seals.
>Without the miss the plugs may stay clean. Maybe.
>You don't mention miles on the engine.
>I've never had luck pinpointing bad injectors. Just did OHM tests
>though. Always bit the bullet and put all new in.
>'92 is getting long in the tooth. You might want to run a compression
>test before you throw money at it.
Leaking valve guides show up as a puff of blue smoke when you accelerate
>Good point about which plug. In my experience OEM is best.
>Those plugs look oil fouled. Not bad though, and it's running good
>enough to burn off most the oil.
>Could be blowby, could be valve seals.
>For valves seals oil gets sucked in at higher vacuum, backing down on
>speed or idling.
>I had a Ford 352 that would use a quart every 500 miles in local
>driving. Went on a 3000 road trip and didn't use a quart.
>Pissed me of because I had completely rebuilt it, but the shop I took
>the heads to screwed up on the valve seals.
>Without the miss the plugs may stay clean. Maybe.
>You don't mention miles on the engine.
>I've never had luck pinpointing bad injectors. Just did OHM tests
>though. Always bit the bullet and put all new in.
>'92 is getting long in the tooth. You might want to run a compression
>test before you throw money at it.
from a idle. At that age the injectors can be either electronic or
mechanical depending on the system used. Bosch made both, but I don't
know anything about American cars.
--
Clive
Vic Smith
May 17, 2012, 5:17:32 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:16:07 +0100, Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
American cars have catalytic converters, which can eat a lot of oil
before they fail.
My son had a car with worn cylinders walls that ate oil like crazy
with no outwardly visible signs - until the cat failed and he had to
punch holes in it with a screwdriver to get down the road - smoking.
I didn't have a cat on my 352, and never saw puffs of smoke.
I could smell it when conditions were right.
It was a pick-up so that obscures the exhaust. An Explorer isn't much
different in that regard.
Anyway, if there are no leaks, checking the dipstick tell the tale.
I don't recall my plugs getting fouled like the OP's, but I changed
plugs spring and fall back then, and a quart every 500 miles isn't
very serious as oil burning goes.
--
Vic
wrote:
before they fail.
My son had a car with worn cylinders walls that ate oil like crazy
with no outwardly visible signs - until the cat failed and he had to
punch holes in it with a screwdriver to get down the road - smoking.
I didn't have a cat on my 352, and never saw puffs of smoke.
I could smell it when conditions were right.
It was a pick-up so that obscures the exhaust. An Explorer isn't much
different in that regard.
Anyway, if there are no leaks, checking the dipstick tell the tale.
I don't recall my plugs getting fouled like the OP's, but I changed
plugs spring and fall back then, and a quart every 500 miles isn't
very serious as oil burning goes.
--
Vic
jim beam
May 17, 2012, 9:43:59 PM5/17/12
to
On 05/16/2012 09:15 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 19:16:27 -0700, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 05/16/2012 07:58 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> <brevity>
>>>>
>>>
>>> constant pulling of the plug wires can damage the center
>>> conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
>>> or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
>>> astray,under certain conditions.
>>
>> indeed.
>>
>>>
>>> Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
>>
>> yup. but if it's a rotor, it's usually a problem affecting all
>> cylinders, not just one.
>
>
> On this Vehicle, the explorer, there is no distributor, just a
> computer and coil pack and pickup coil down by the harmonic balancer.
so it could still be a plug lead from the coil pack.
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 19:16:27 -0700, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 05/16/2012 07:58 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> <brevity>
>>>>
>>>
>>> constant pulling of the plug wires can damage the center
>>> conductor/connection,usually at the ends.
>>> or there could be an insulation break,allowing your spark energy to go
>>> astray,under certain conditions.
>>
>> indeed.
>>
>>>
>>> Or a cheapo dist.cap/rotor could cause problems.
>>
>> yup. but if it's a rotor, it's usually a problem affecting all
>> cylinders, not just one.
>
>
> On this Vehicle, the explorer, there is no distributor, just a
> computer and coil pack and pickup coil down by the harmonic balancer.
> One of the reasons I'm leaning toward the fuel injectors as the
> underlying problem is that in the past when I've had ignition system
> problems they were the worst at high load/high rpm. In this case the
> problem goes away at high load-high rpm.
like blockage or insufficient opening show up the most.
ignition voltage requirements are highest for idle and high load, with,
i think, idle being the worst. which is consistent with what you've
described.
> I wonder if what I'm
> perceiving as a "Miss" is really knocking from too lean a mixture.
plugs are as ashed up as they are and starting to miss, your problem is
oil fouling. start the motor from cold, run it just enough for the miss
to be present, then shut it down and pull the offending plugs. that
way, they shouldn't be hot enough to have burned off any oil, and you'll
be able to see whether all that black stuff on the plug walls is also
present on the plug tip.
further thought on re-reading your second post:
1. use ngk plugs if you can get them for this vehicle. while i don't
specifically endorse them, i've never had a problem with them, and i
have every other plug manufacturer, sooner or later. especially bosch.
2. check out the e.g.r. system. these things tend to coke up and when
they do, you get ignition flat spots that lead to hesitation and
"misfires".
this last doesn't explain why new plugs should help of course, but egr
blockage is very common and give drivability problems like you describe.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
m6onz5a
May 18, 2012, 1:43:54 PM5/18/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've actually had a couple of issues with NGK.. Getting carbon stuck
> - Show quoted text -
in the electrode.. Went back to regular plugs and all is well.
I try to sell what originally went in the vehicle.
Fords - Autolite / Motocraft
GM - AC Delco
Chryslers - Champion
Euro & Japanese etc NGK & Bosch.
Though you can basically use brand plug in any vehicle some plugs just
seem to run better in certain vehicles.
We have one customer who puts champion in everything, and we have
another customer who wouldn't put champion plugs in a row boat.
Ashton Crusher
May 19, 2012, 9:11:57 PM5/19/12
to
has an EGR. The plug wires were new when I put the Bosch plugs in,
which is less then 10,000 miles. They could still be bad but they are
not very old. I think they were autozone premium brand, might have
been bosch.
Ashton Crusher
May 19, 2012, 9:13:34 PM5/19/12
to
talked to don't seem to have much good to say about them.
Ashton Crusher
May 19, 2012, 9:18:48 PM5/19/12
to
in this truck and was just replacing them "because". So back around
10K miles ago I it was due for plugs just "because" so since it had
over 120K on the original wires I figured I'd do the wires too "just
to be safe". Then 5K later it starts missing. The shop replaced the
bosch with Motorcraft and miss went away. Now about 5000 miles later
the miss came back.... replaced the three easy plugs and the miss is
gone again. Does make me wonder if the new wires are the underlying
cause.
Ashton Crusher
May 19, 2012, 9:23:56 PM5/19/12
to
and never smokes. Been using Mobile One for the past 5 years. I had
a caprice that developed a similar miss on just one cylinder and when
I pulled that plug out it was filthy and caked with burnt oil
deposits. As you saw in the photos, these plugs are fairly clean, two
of them are almost too clean and the other one looks to me like it's
the one that was missing and getting dirty but still looked a lot
better then back in the old days of leaded gas.
Nate Nagel
May 19, 2012, 9:27:06 PM5/19/12
to
Scirocco, decided to give it a tuneup for no better reason than it had a
ton of miles on it. less than 5K miles later, it was running like crap,
dropped it off at shop, they said "your spark plug wires are crap, we
replaced them" and it ran fine ever since. I've driven vehicles with
tattered likely OEM plug wires that ran fine, only set of wires that I
ever had that cause a problem came out of a Bosch box.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Nate Nagel
May 19, 2012, 9:27:38 PM5/19/12
to
>>
>> Though you can basically use brand plug in any vehicle some plugs just
>> seem to run better in certain vehicles.
>>
>> We have one customer who puts champion in everything, and we have
>> another customer who wouldn't put champion plugs in a row boat.
>
>
> Champion seems to be the "fram" of spark plugs. Most people I've
> talked to don't seem to have much good to say about them.
they're not bad but they have a reputation of not taking kindly to oil
>> Though you can basically use brand plug in any vehicle some plugs just
>> seem to run better in certain vehicles.
>>
>> We have one customer who puts champion in everything, and we have
>> another customer who wouldn't put champion plugs in a row boat.
>
>
> Champion seems to be the "fram" of spark plugs. Most people I've
> talked to don't seem to have much good to say about them.
fouling.
Ashton Crusher
May 19, 2012, 9:28:46 PM5/19/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:10:22 +0100, Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
That was my initial thoughts too. If you buy the injector theory as
the problem it fits. If I can get to the injectors to OHM them I'm
going to when I get home. I've had the truck since it was new and
plan to keep it another 10-15 years so if the injectors OHM out bad
I'll replace em all.
wrote:
the problem it fits. If I can get to the injectors to OHM them I'm
going to when I get home. I've had the truck since it was new and
plan to keep it another 10-15 years so if the injectors OHM out bad
I'll replace em all.
Jim Yanik
May 19, 2012, 9:43:56 PM5/19/12
to
Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net> wrote in
news:40hgr7dfbm37c5ali...@4ax.com:
My 03 Sentra Spec V 2.5L leaves the exhaust valves open longer to have some
exhaust sucked back into the cylinders after the exhaust stroke.
Early motors would damage the catalytic(right next to the exh. manifold...)
under certain ordinary conditions,and the cat would flake off little chunks
that got sucked back into the cylinders and proceed to tear up the cylinder
walls. Nissan had to replace a lot of 2.5L motors.
Vic Smith
May 19, 2012, 10:10:51 PM5/19/12
to
On Sat, 19 May 2012 18:23:56 -0700, Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net>
Could be. Just looks like oil fouling to me. Won't hurt to do a
compression test.
BTW, my injectors caused bucking only at low speed during
acceleration. Idled fine, and *seemed* to run fine at speed.
Only other missing I've had on FI cars was fixed by new spark plug
wires and/or coil packs.
Never used a scope. Just ears and throw parts at it.
Injectors are last, since they're expensive.
--
Vic
compression test.
BTW, my injectors caused bucking only at low speed during
acceleration. Idled fine, and *seemed* to run fine at speed.
Only other missing I've had on FI cars was fixed by new spark plug
wires and/or coil packs.
Never used a scope. Just ears and throw parts at it.
Injectors are last, since they're expensive.
--
Vic
m6onz5a
May 20, 2012, 7:15:20 PM5/20/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Take a spray bottle of water and spray the wires with the engine
> - Show quoted text -
running and see if the miss gets worse, or wait until dark and see if
you see any sparks jumping when the motor misses.
m6onz5a
May 21, 2012, 8:44:03 AM5/21/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I meant to say spray on mist setting.
> - Show quoted text -
jim beam
May 21, 2012, 8:46:48 PM5/21/12
to
On 05/19/2012 06:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
<brevity>
miles. literally, one morning, the car wouldn't start. i changed the
plugs to a different brand, it fired up first time. just to be sure, i
swapped the bosch back in, totally dead. i will never use bosch plugs
ever again. ever.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
<brevity>
>
> I'll have to check the manual to be sure but I don't think this engine
> has an EGR. The plug wires were new when I put the Bosch plugs in,
> which is less then 10,000 miles. They could still be bad but they are
> not very old. I think they were autozone premium brand, might have
> been bosch.
i've had repeated problems with bosch plugs - one set went bad inside 5k
> I'll have to check the manual to be sure but I don't think this engine
> has an EGR. The plug wires were new when I put the Bosch plugs in,
> which is less then 10,000 miles. They could still be bad but they are
> not very old. I think they were autozone premium brand, might have
> been bosch.
miles. literally, one morning, the car wouldn't start. i changed the
plugs to a different brand, it fired up first time. just to be sure, i
swapped the bosch back in, totally dead. i will never use bosch plugs
ever again. ever.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim beam
May 21, 2012, 8:48:11 PM5/21/12
to
> Been using Mobile One for the past 5 years. I had
> a caprice that developed a similar miss on just one cylinder and when
> I pulled that plug out it was filthy and caked with burnt oil
> deposits. As you saw in the photos, these plugs are fairly clean, two
> of them are almost too clean
they're /way/ heavier than normal. this is supported by the black shiny
stuff on the plug wall - excess oil.
> and the other one looks to me like it's
> the one that was missing and getting dirty but still looked a lot
> better then back in the old days of leaded gas.
that, it's pretty healthy.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim beam
May 21, 2012, 8:52:11 PM5/21/12
to
roughly per the book, you're good. people that are worried about a few
ohms +/- are clutching at straws. particularly when the engine computer
is monitoring them for you as well.
as for measuring resistance, it's not really possible for an injector to
"gradually" go bad on the coil - it either works or it doesn't. and if
you get say 150Ω when the book says 100Ω, you're still going to be ok.
it's important to get the right diagnosis. you're frustrated with it
happening, but you're looking to throw parts at it and you're
straw-clutching at one guy's story off the net by way of corroboration.
reality is that if you're changing the plugs and that makes a
difference, then that is much more likely the right track. and the pic
you posted supports that.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Scott Dorsey
May 21, 2012, 10:18:27 PM5/21/12
to
plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Ashton Crusher
May 22, 2012, 12:05:30 AM5/22/12
to
On Mon, 21 May 2012 17:52:11 -0700, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 05/19/2012 06:28 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:10:22 +0100, Clive<cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message
>>> <66b337ae-46b9-4a61...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>>> m6onz5a<cor...@comcast.net> writes
>On 05/19/2012 06:28 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:10:22 +0100, Clive<cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message
>>> <66b337ae-46b9-4a61...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>>> m6onz5a<cor...@comcast.net> writes
>>>> On May 14, 8:12?pm, Ashton Crusher<j...@here.net> wrote:
>>>>> I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>>>>> saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>>>>> http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>>>>> they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. ?It scopes out fine
>>>>> I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>>>>> saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>>>>> http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>>>>> yet misses. ?Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
>>>>> miles. ?Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
>>>>> injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
>>>>> set a code. ?No codes have popped up. ?Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
>>>>> right up to redline in any gear.
>>>> What was the Bosch part # installed? Maybe the wrong plugs are
>>>> installed as well?
>>> I've just had a quick look, the left one looks to be OK the right two
>>> definitely look like lean mixture to me.
>>
>> That was my initial thoughts too. If you buy the injector theory as
>> the problem it fits. If I can get to the injectors to OHM them I'm
>> going to when I get home. I've had the truck since it was new and
>> plan to keep it another 10-15 years so if the injectors OHM out bad
>> I'll replace em all.
>
>ohms alone don't tell you much. basically, if you get resistance
>roughly per the book, you're good. people that are worried about a few
>ohms +/- are clutching at straws. particularly when the engine computer
>is monitoring them for you as well.
>
>as for measuring resistance, it's not really possible for an injector to
>"gradually" go bad on the coil - it either works or it doesn't. and if
>you get say 150? when the book says 100?, you're still going to be ok.
>>>> What was the Bosch part # installed? Maybe the wrong plugs are
>>>> installed as well?
>>> I've just had a quick look, the left one looks to be OK the right two
>>> definitely look like lean mixture to me.
>>
>> That was my initial thoughts too. If you buy the injector theory as
>> the problem it fits. If I can get to the injectors to OHM them I'm
>> going to when I get home. I've had the truck since it was new and
>> plan to keep it another 10-15 years so if the injectors OHM out bad
>> I'll replace em all.
>
>ohms alone don't tell you much. basically, if you get resistance
>roughly per the book, you're good. people that are worried about a few
>ohms +/- are clutching at straws. particularly when the engine computer
>is monitoring them for you as well.
>
>as for measuring resistance, it's not really possible for an injector to
>"gradually" go bad on the coil - it either works or it doesn't. and if
>
>it's important to get the right diagnosis. you're frustrated with it
>happening, but you're looking to throw parts at it and you're
>straw-clutching at one guy's story off the net by way of corroboration.
> reality is that if you're changing the plugs and that makes a
>difference, then that is much more likely the right track. and the pic
>you posted supports that.
I will probably just buy some genuine ford plug wires and do that
>it's important to get the right diagnosis. you're frustrated with it
>happening, but you're looking to throw parts at it and you're
>straw-clutching at one guy's story off the net by way of corroboration.
> reality is that if you're changing the plugs and that makes a
>difference, then that is much more likely the right track. and the pic
>you posted supports that.
first since the problem started within 5K of the change in wires..
jim beam
May 22, 2012, 12:36:49 AM5/22/12
to
because they use a wire conductor, they can be more reliable long term
than standard oem graphite. they have good quality insulation too.
another thing worth mentioning: when fitting new plugs, keep sweaty
fingers off the insulators. sweat salt is hygroscopic and can leave a
moisture conduction path for the spark. [same for rotor caps and
rotors, though this may not be relevant for you.] never wire brush a
plug - it leaves metal traces on the insulators and again, this can
provide a leakage path for the spark.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim beam
May 22, 2012, 9:38:54 AM5/22/12
to
chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
a problem with ngk in those applications?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Scott Dorsey
May 22, 2012, 10:16:26 AM5/22/12
to
In article <jpg4tc$aid$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>
>>
>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>
>i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>a problem with ngk in those applications?
I have. The NGKs don't work well at all in the BMW M30. Have not tried
>chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>a problem with ngk in those applications?
them in a Bug. They're more expensive than the Silbers although they're a
whole lot easier to get. None of the auto parts stores want to carry the
Silbers; in the US they seem to be a specialty shop item.
The Bosch Platinums are total crap... I tried them in the M30 engine and
they do not behave well at all. I suspect they're a much higher profit
margin item too.
Tom $herman (-_-)
May 22, 2012, 10:51:37 PM5/22/12
to
On 5/22/2012 8:38 AM, jim beam wrote:
> [...]
plugs, despite coming from places as varied as Smyrna, Tennessee, USA;
East Liberty, Ohio, USA; Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, Japan; Wuyang, Guangzhou,
China; Iwata, Shizuoka, Japan; and Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!
> [...]
> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had a
> problem with ngk in those applications?
>
>
I think everything internal combustion powered I own has NGK spark
> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had a
> problem with ngk in those applications?
>
>
plugs, despite coming from places as varied as Smyrna, Tennessee, USA;
East Liberty, Ohio, USA; Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, Japan; Wuyang, Guangzhou,
China; Iwata, Shizuoka, Japan; and Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!
jim beam
May 22, 2012, 11:08:36 PM5/22/12
to
On 05/22/2012 07:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article<jpg4tc$aid$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>>
>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>> a problem with ngk in those applications?
>
> I have. The NGKs don't work well at all in the BMW M30.
interesting. did you experiment with the heat range at all? i know
> In article<jpg4tc$aid$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>>
>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>> a problem with ngk in those applications?
>
> I have. The NGKs don't work well at all in the BMW M30.
some of the more modern bmw's come with custom 4-ground ngk's from
factory so i can't imagine what any disruption mechanism might be other
than mistaken spec.
> Have not tried
> them in a Bug. They're more expensive than the Silbers although they're a
> whole lot easier to get. None of the auto parts stores want to carry the
> Silbers; in the US they seem to be a specialty shop item.
>
> The Bosch Platinums are total crap... I tried them in the M30 engine and
> they do not behave well at all. I suspect they're a much higher profit
> margin item too.
> --scott
>
--
jim beam
May 22, 2012, 11:12:52 PM5/22/12
to
On 05/22/2012 07:51 PM, Tom $herman (-_-) > wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 8:38 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> [...]
>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had a
>> problem with ngk in those applications?
>>
>>
> I think everything internal combustion powered I own has NGK spark
> plugs, despite coming from places as varied as Smyrna, Tennessee, USA;
> East Liberty, Ohio, USA; Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, Japan; Wuyang, Guangzhou,
> China; Iwata, Shizuoka, Japan; and Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
>
so plenty of room for german, italian, french, swedish, british and
> On 5/22/2012 8:38 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> [...]
>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had a
>> problem with ngk in those applications?
>>
>>
> I think everything internal combustion powered I own has NGK spark
> plugs, despite coming from places as varied as Smyrna, Tennessee, USA;
> East Liberty, Ohio, USA; Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, Japan; Wuyang, Guangzhou,
> China; Iwata, Shizuoka, Japan; and Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
>
russian then!
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Tom $herman (-_-)
May 23, 2012, 1:12:20 AM5/23/12
to
Germany - BMW G650GS Sertao
Italy - Aprilia Tuono V4R
France - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 (Group B homologation)
Sweden - Volvo C303
GB - Triumph Bonneville SE
Russia - Ural
Czech Republic - Tatra 813 8x8
Canada - Honda Civic Si
Thailand - Honda PCX 150
Austria - KTM 690 SMC R
Antarctica - Penguin
jim beam
May 23, 2012, 10:18:30 AM5/23/12
to
you ever seen the ari vatanen video, "climb dance"? check it out on
youtube if not.
re canadia, the 89 e.f. is my personal fave. recently managed to get
one with a completely straight frame - almost unheard of. with more
room than the crx, and very nearly as light, it's pretty much the
ultimate in practical car that'll seat 5, that with the seats down will
fit a full size file cabinet and a huge amount of other garbage, and all
in a little package that corners so hard, it'll shame vehicles many
times its price. i just wish honda had made a little pickup of it -
like the rabbit pickup of that era.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Scott Dorsey
May 23, 2012, 11:59:37 AM5/23/12
to
In article <jphkbl$b34$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 05/22/2012 07:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article<jpg4tc$aid$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>>>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>>>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>>>
>>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>>> a problem with ngk in those applications?
>>
>> I have. The NGKs don't work well at all in the BMW M30.
>
>interesting. did you experiment with the heat range at all? i know
>some of the more modern bmw's come with custom 4-ground ngk's from
>factory so i can't imagine what any disruption mechanism might be other
>than mistaken spec.
I did not, although since I just ordered a set of Silbers for the 2002
>On 05/22/2012 07:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article<jpg4tc$aid$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, and a lot of other folks, have had trouble with the expensive Bosch
>>>> plugs. The inexpensive Silber plugs, though, are just fine and are the
>>>> plugs of choice in air-cooled VWs and older BMWs.
>>>
>>> i know a lot of people do that, but i can't see the point taking the
>>> chance. or to put it another way, have you or anyone you know ever had
>>> a problem with ngk in those applications?
>>
>> I have. The NGKs don't work well at all in the BMW M30.
>
>interesting. did you experiment with the heat range at all? i know
>some of the more modern bmw's come with custom 4-ground ngk's from
>factory so i can't imagine what any disruption mechanism might be other
>than mistaken spec.
and Bavarian Motorsport charged me $6 each for the things, maybe I will in
fact play with slightly hotter and cooler NGKs next time. The Silbers are
the plugs that are well under a Euro in Germany....
Scott Dorsey
May 23, 2012, 12:00:24 PM5/23/12
to
In article <jphrjn$q31$1...@dont-email.me>, Tom $herman (-_-) <""> wrote:
>Want list:
>
>Germany - BMW G650GS Sertao
>Italy - Aprilia Tuono V4R
>France - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 (Group B homologation)
>Sweden - Volvo C303
>GB - Triumph Bonneville SE
>Russia - Ural
>Czech Republic - Tatra 813 8x8
>Canada - Honda Civic Si
>Thailand - Honda PCX 150
>Austria - KTM 690 SMC R
>Antarctica - Penguin
I don't see a Trabant on this list. How could you not want a Trabi?
>Want list:
>
>Germany - BMW G650GS Sertao
>Italy - Aprilia Tuono V4R
>France - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 (Group B homologation)
>Sweden - Volvo C303
>GB - Triumph Bonneville SE
>Russia - Ural
>Czech Republic - Tatra 813 8x8
>Canada - Honda Civic Si
>Thailand - Honda PCX 150
>Austria - KTM 690 SMC R
>Antarctica - Penguin
jim beam
May 23, 2012, 12:07:19 PM5/23/12
to
On 05/23/2012 08:59 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
if you're paying that kind of money, go for the ngk iridiums [but shop
around - prices vary a lot]. very wide heat range, and the fine
electrode will fire almost any extreme of mixture.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
around - prices vary a lot]. very wide heat range, and the fine
electrode will fire almost any extreme of mixture.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Ashton Crusher
Jun 22, 2012, 7:09:54 PM6/22/12
to
On Mon, 14 May 2012 17:12:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher <jo...@here.net>
>yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
>miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
50 miles of the return trip it started missing again and I almost
turned back. It was raining most of that 50 miles. Slogged on
another 10 miles to the Interstate Service Area with it seeming to
come and go. Check engine light flashed on and off and on and off
several times and then stayed on. Got to the Service area and shut it
off, opened the hood and poked around looking for wetness but
everything seemed dry. Started it back up and the light was off and
it ran fine. Ran fine for the rest of the trip, 4000 miles. Yesterday
I drove it quite a bit and no problems and when I got home I left it
on and got my infrared heat measuring gun and measured the exhaust
manifold by the three cylinders on the side I replaced the plugs.
Front cyl was about 450 degrees, second cyl 550 and third cyl 550. So
that's making me think it may be related to those fuel injectors
running too lean as was suggested by the web post I found. Anyone know
what the "normal" temp is when getting a manifold temp reading like
this?? Averaged 20.5 mpg for the trip.
wrote:
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>
>
>http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>
>
>they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. It scopes out fine
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>
>
>http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>
>
>yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
>miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
>injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
>set a code. No codes have popped up. Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
>right up to redline in any gear.
Update on this.... Got home so it's 4000 miles later. In the first
50 miles of the return trip it started missing again and I almost
turned back. It was raining most of that 50 miles. Slogged on
another 10 miles to the Interstate Service Area with it seeming to
come and go. Check engine light flashed on and off and on and off
several times and then stayed on. Got to the Service area and shut it
off, opened the hood and poked around looking for wetness but
everything seemed dry. Started it back up and the light was off and
it ran fine. Ran fine for the rest of the trip, 4000 miles. Yesterday
I drove it quite a bit and no problems and when I got home I left it
on and got my infrared heat measuring gun and measured the exhaust
manifold by the three cylinders on the side I replaced the plugs.
Front cyl was about 450 degrees, second cyl 550 and third cyl 550. So
that's making me think it may be related to those fuel injectors
running too lean as was suggested by the web post I found. Anyone know
what the "normal" temp is when getting a manifold temp reading like
this?? Averaged 20.5 mpg for the trip.
jim beam
Jun 23, 2012, 12:05:31 AM6/23/12
to
On 06/22/2012 04:09 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 17:12:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher<jo...@here.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>> saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>>
>>
>> http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>>
>>
>> they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. It scopes out fine
>> yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
>> miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
>> injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
>> set a code. No codes have popped up. Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
>> right up to redline in any gear.
>
>
> Update on this.... Got home so it's 4000 miles later. In the first
> 50 miles of the return trip it started missing again and I almost
> turned back. It was raining most of that 50 miles.
if you can't connect rain with an indication of an issue with the
> On Mon, 14 May 2012 17:12:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher<jo...@here.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I would appreciate any thoughts on what, if anything, these plugs are
>> saying... lean, rich, too hot, too cold, whatever.
>>
>>
>> http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1732/imag01561.jpg
>>
>>
>> they are from a 92 explorer with a low rpm miss. It scopes out fine
>> yet misses. Replacing these plugs seems to "fix" it for about 5000
>> miles. Searching the net suggests the problem is that the fuel
>> injectors are going bad and running too lean but not lean enough to
>> set a code. No codes have popped up. Over 2000 rpm it runs smooth
>> right up to redline in any gear.
>
>
> Update on this.... Got home so it's 4000 miles later. In the first
> 50 miles of the return trip it started missing again and I almost
> turned back. It was raining most of that 50 miles.
ignition system, then the problem is in the passenger compartment, not
the engine compartment.
> Slogged on
> another 10 miles to the Interstate Service Area with it seeming to
> come and go. Check engine light flashed on and off and on and off
> several times and then stayed on.
to report what it is...
> Got to the Service area and shut it
> off, opened the hood and poked around looking for wetness but
> everything seemed dry.
soaking wet.
> Started it back up and the light was off and
> it ran fine.
> Ran fine for the rest of the trip, 4000 miles. Yesterday
> I drove it quite a bit and no problems and when I got home I left it
> on and got my infrared heat measuring gun and measured the exhaust
> manifold by the three cylinders on the side I replaced the plugs.
> Front cyl was about 450 degrees, second cyl 550 and third cyl 550. So
> that's making me think it may be related to those fuel injectors
> running too lean as was suggested by the web post I found.
> Anyone know
> what the "normal" temp is when getting a manifold temp reading like
> this?? Averaged 20.5 mpg for the trip.
bottom line, if you want to go ahead and change the injectors, then go
ahead and do it. just don't keep bothering us about it - especially
since you don't want to analyze what these symptoms indicate, and you're
clearly not prepared to listen to anyone else who does.
--
fact check required
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