Headlights burnt out AGAIN! WTF?
m...@privacy.net
Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
lights, etc.
I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
pretty standard 2003 bulb
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
service!! All else worked fine including high beams
and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
I think?
Question.... what abt replacing them with LED units
that have super long life? I am university student and
don't like working on cars or have much time for it?
Bottom line....chalk it up to happenstance and put
another set of Sylvania bulbs at $18? Or maybe look
for other cause or go LED?
Scott Dorsey
>I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 180k miles on it.
>
>Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
>precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
>lights, etc.
>
>I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
>pretty standard 2003 bulb
>
>http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
No, this is NOT a standard 2003 bulb, this is an extra high intensity
bulb. And it's not a very good one either. That intensity comes with
serious disadvantages, and you just found them.
>Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
>low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
>service!! All else worked fine including high beams
>and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
>
>Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
>low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
>I think?
Go and get proper 2003 bulbs. NOT fancy high intensity ones. They will
be fine. Go to a real auto parts store, not some place like Wal-Mart which
sells the lowest quality products at the lowest prices.
This is, of course, assuming that your bulbs ARE out, and you haven't done
something like blow a fuse (since these lamps do pull more current than
regular ones).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
m6onz5a
> I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 180k miles on it.
>
> Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
> precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
> lights, etc.
>
> I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
> pretty standard 2003 bulb
>
>
> Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
> low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
> service!! All else worked fine including high beams
> and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
>
> Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
> low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
> I think?
>
> Question.... what abt replacing them with LED units
> that have super long life? I am university student and
> don't like working on cars or have much time for it?
>
> Bottom line....chalk it up to happenstance and put
> another set of Sylvania bulbs at $18? Or maybe look
> for other cause or go LED?
go buy some halogen 9003's. that is what that car calls for.
both blowing out at the same time is a bit unusual, but I've seen it
happen before.
dsi1
My guess is that headlights are like lightbulbs - brighter lights are
more fragile and won't last as long. Try using the standard bulbs. I'll
bet however, that what you're really looking for is something cool, in
which case, go with the LEDs. To tell the truth, I don't think you can
get LED headlights for the Mazda at this time. Wouldn't you need a
housing and reflector made specifically for that application?
N8N
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 180k miles on it.
>
> > Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
> > precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
> > lights, etc.
>
> > I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
> > pretty standard 2003 bulb
>
>
> > Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
> > low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
> > service!! All else worked fine including high beams
> > and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
>
> > Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
> > low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
> > I think?
>
> > Question.... what abt replacing them with LED units
> > that have super long life? I am university student and
> > don't like working on cars or have much time for it?
>
> > Bottom line....chalk it up to happenstance and put
> > another set of Sylvania bulbs at $18? Or maybe look
> > for other cause or go LED?
>
> My guess is that headlights are like lightbulbs - brighter lights are
> more fragile and won't last as long. Try using the standard bulbs. I'll
> bet however, that what you're really looking for is something cool, in
> which case, go with the LEDs. To tell the truth, I don't think you can
> get LED headlights for the Mazda at this time. Wouldn't you need a
>
> - Show quoted text -
also, please excuse me if I'm insulting your intelligence, but do NOT
touch the glass when installing the bulb, that will drastically
shorten its life. If you do happen to accidentally touch the glass,
stop, clean the glass well with rubbing alcohol and dry with a lint
free cloth, then start over.
nate
dsi1
Good point. The packaging on the light bulb does not emphasize this
important step enough. I'm slightly embarrassed to say that I was one of
those AV-room nerds in grade school that learned how to change a halogen
bulb early on. :-)
I had a bulb on my Taurus that lasted less than two weeks recently. The
problem was water in the housing. My wife must have gone over a bump and
splashed water on the bulb and shattered it. In this case, I had to
replace the headlight housing - the housing and bulb cost me about $42.
$17 for the housing/bulb and $25 for shipping. Thanks eBay! :-)
> nate
m...@privacy.net
>This is, of course, assuming that your bulbs ARE out, and you haven't done
>something like blow a fuse (since these lamps do pull more current than
>regular ones).
OK.....but how could it be a fuse if the high beams
STILL work?
Steve W.
Maybe because high and low beams have separate fuses?
--
Steve W.
Scott Dorsey
If they are fused seperately.
Hey, my E28 has four fuses, for left and right high and low.
Steve W.
> <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>>> This is, of course, assuming that your bulbs ARE out, and you haven't done
>>> something like blow a fuse (since these lamps do pull more current than
>>> regular ones).
>> OK.....but how could it be a fuse if the high beams
>> STILL work?
>
> If they are fused seperately.
>
> Hey, my E28 has four fuses, for left and right high and low.
> --scott
>
Same with most vehicles from about 2001 and up.
Of course it could also bee that the higher wattage bulbs fried the low
beam relay or took out the power feed wire to them as well.
--
Steve W.
Hal
> > OK.....but how could it be a fuse if the high beams
> > STILL work?
>
> Maybe because high and low beams have separate fuses?
>
They probably have separate relays too. If both low beams failed at
once I'd test one bulb, if it was good the next step is the fuse, if
that's good, it has to be the relay or the switch.
Chris
m...@privacy.net
>Maybe because high and low beams have separate fuses?
Really!!
I had no idea that was possible! I thought the
low/high beams all on same circuit. No?
m...@privacy.net
>Same with most vehicles from about 2001 and up.
>Of course it could also bee that the higher wattage bulbs fried the low
>beam relay or took out the power feed wire to them as well.
Well if it ever stops raining here (Missouri) and
clears up.... I can get outside and check all this out
(no garage for me).
But it is supposed to only be in the twenties next few
days.......... crap!
Thanks everyone and will report back what I find. I
had no idea that some cars had sep circuits for
low/high beams and even sep headlamps!
Paul
No. Not since about 1984.
Get out your ohm/volt meter and test.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> also, please excuse me if I'm insulting your intelligence, but do NOT
>> touch the glass when installing the bulb, that will drastically shorten
>> its life. If you do happen to accidentally touch the glass, stop, clean
>> the glass well with rubbing alcohol and dry with a lint free cloth, then
>> start over.
>>
>>
> Good point. The packaging on the light bulb does not emphasize this
> important step enough. I'm slightly embarrassed to say that I was one of
> those AV-room nerds in grade school that learned how to change a halogen
> bulb early on. :-)
We try to hide it as much as possible. Did you have a propellor hat?
(I left mine at home...)
Ashton Crusher
If my memory is correct, the Xtravision are rated for around 200 hours
of use, the "regular"Vision are around 1500 hours. There isn't a
whole lot of extra light that you get from the Xtravision for that
trade off, something like 1400 Lumens verses 1200 lumens. The
difference in power draw is not enough to worry about, both are
roughly the same wattage. After trying several different bulbs of
various wattages I concluded that there isn't much you can do with a
different bulb that will make a crappy headlight better, if the
reflector/lens design sucks with a 55 watt bulb it still sucks with a
100 watt bulb.
Steve Austin
A lot of vehicles will put both of the low beams or both of the high
beams into a series circuit for daytime running lights. Switching from
series to parallel requires separate circuits for each side.
Don Stauffer
> I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 180k miles on it.
>
> Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
> precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
> lights, etc.
>
> I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
> pretty standard 2003 bulb
>
> http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
>
> Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
> low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
> service!! All else worked fine including high beams
> and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
>
> Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
> low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
> I think?
>
frequently. Bulbs are very non-linear devices and sensitive to proper
voltage.
hls
"Don Stauffer" <stau...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:4b1fb4f2$0$48222
>>
> One of the symptoms of a bad voltage regulator is burning out bulbs
> frequently. Bulbs are very non-linear devices and sensitive to proper
> voltage.
I believe that used to be more of a problem (with generators and electro-
mechanical voltage regulators) than it normally is today.
Wiring with intermittent open conditions can also burn out bulbs quickly,
and you normally wont see it by fuses going bad. (This same condition
is often a cause of failure of blower motor resistor packs. The pack may
fail but the fuse may not blow)
Also, if water gets into lighting units, I have seen the bulbs blow.
Don Stauffer
>
> "Don Stauffer" <stau...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
> news:4b1fb4f2$0$48222
>>>
>> One of the symptoms of a bad voltage regulator is burning out bulbs
>> frequently. Bulbs are very non-linear devices and sensitive to proper
>> voltage.
>
> I believe that used to be more of a problem (with generators and electro-
> mechanical voltage regulators) than it normally is today.
>
ones, they still go bad. Auto manufacturers unfortunately save money by
using semiconductors with insufficiently high max temp ratings, then
stick them in hot places like interior of alternators. Not a good idea :-(
hls
>>
> While electronic regulators are more reliable than electromechanical ones,
> they still go bad. Auto manufacturers unfortunately save money by using
> semiconductors with insufficiently high max temp ratings, then stick them
> in hot places like interior of alternators. Not a good idea :-(
Exactly. That is one of the nice things about Fords and Chryslers...the
regulators normally hold up better.
N8N
> "Don Stauffer" <stauf...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
On the flip side, the voltage on my ('93) Ford drops off at idle,
something that my Chevy and Porsche do not do. Win some, lose some.
nate
hls
"N8N" <njn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:5805e317-f63d-45dd-9749-
On the flip side, the voltage on my ('93) Ford drops off at idle,
something that my Chevy and Porsche do not do. Win some, lose some.
nate
*****
No challenge on that, Nate.
Steve Austin
And if they don't, on a lot of Chrysler's you get to replace the ecu.
hls
"Steve Austin" <sau...@northnet.org> wrote in message news:4b223c4f$0$26136
>> Exactly. That is one of the nice things about Fords and Chryslers...the
>> regulators normally hold up better.
>
> And if they don't, on a lot of Chrysler's you get to replace the ecu.
I guess both Ford and Chrysler has the regulator as part of the ECU, and GM
in
the alternator.
I have owned one Chrysler in the past ten years, no Fords, and a lot of GMs.
The
one Chrysler has never given me a problem (318 cid engine, good tranny,
etc).
Every GM I ever owned had alternator problems, going back to the mid or
early
80's.
Do you see the comment from Nate that the Ford voltage rolls off as the
engine
idles as being a general problem with Fords??
cuh...@webtv.net
alternators, I think so.
cuhulin
Ashton Crusher
>
>"Steve Austin" <sau...@northnet.org> wrote in message news:4b223c4f$0$26136
>
>>> Exactly. That is one of the nice things about Fords and Chryslers...the
>>> regulators normally hold up better.
>>
>> And if they don't, on a lot of Chrysler's you get to replace the ecu.
>
>I guess both Ford and Chrysler has the regulator as part of the ECU, and GM
>in
>the alternator.
>I have owned one Chrysler in the past ten years, no Fords, and a lot of GMs.
>The
>one Chrysler has never given me a problem (318 cid engine, good tranny,
>etc).
>Every GM I ever owned had alternator problems, going back to the mid or
>early
>80's.
>
My last GM alternator only lasted 190,000 miles and 20 years. Pure
crap.
Steve Austin
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:27:44 -0600, "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>> "Steve Austin" <sau...@northnet.org> wrote in message news:4b223c4f$0$26136
>>
>>>> Exactly. That is one of the nice things about Fords and Chryslers...the
>>>> regulators normally hold up better.
>>> And if they don't, on a lot of Chrysler's you get to replace the ecu.
>> I guess both Ford and Chrysler has the regulator as part of the ECU, and GM
>> in
>> the alternator.
>> I have owned one Chrysler in the past ten years, no Fords, and a lot of GMs.
>> The
>> one Chrysler has never given me a problem (318 cid engine, good tranny,
>> etc).
>> Every GM I ever owned had alternator problems, going back to the mid or
>> early
>> 80's.
>>
> My last GM alternator only lasted 190,000 miles and 20 years. Pure
> crap.
>
>
hls
"Ashton Crusher" <de...@moore.net> wrote in message
> My last GM alternator only lasted 190,000 miles and 20 years. Pure
> crap.
Good for you. Some were better than others, of course.
The ECS100 series were the worst, AFAIK. I got my first one of these in 89,
and that car would use 2-5 alternators per year. (Yes, OEM brand new ones)
Steve Austin
No problem for me. I don't have a monster sound system that I use to
annoy other motorists at stop lights though.
Scott Dorsey
There's nothing to say you have to use the original replacement. Some of the
1-wire GM units will last forever and are easy to rebuild yourself, too,
and they can be retrofitted onto just about anything, including foreign cars...
hls
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:sdidnX6xRbVYKL7W...@giganews.com...
I think it is only fair to say that the quality of these alternators was not
bad. The
applications were bad. These were the small bodied hi amperage units that
were
developed to fit in small spaces. The heat and vibration ate them up.
I converted one of them to a single wire system for my tractor, and replaced
a small
Bosch unit with it. It is not nestled into the engine curves, gets plenty
of air circulation,
and has been working perfectly for several years. Of course, John Deere
doesnt draw
many amps after it starts up either.
hls
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
> There's nothing to say you have to use the original replacement. Some of
> the
> 1-wire GM units will last forever and are easy to rebuild yourself, too,
> and they can be retrofitted onto just about anything, including foreign
> cars...
> --scott
Size was a problem on this one, Scott. There was only a very small space to
nestle that alternator into. This alternator was designed to put out over
100
amps in that small package. You could buy an "Iceberg" kit for it which
might
make it last longer, but if the fins on the kit took up too much room, then
it
wouldnt go.
I had similar problems with a Fiero, and I believe both issues were too much
heat
and vibration. Starter motors also suffered on this little car, because
they were right
next to the exhaust manifold.
So in this case, it wasnt the quality of the parts, I guess, just the wrong
application under
the circumstances.
m...@privacy.net
>Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
>low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
OK this time I replaced the headlamp bulbs with
standard HB2 9003 bulbs
BINGO!! It worked!
It seems that BOTH bulbs did burn out same time! Not
sure why unless the Xtravision bulbs were just too high
wattage like was said earlier
Nate Nagel
they shouldn't be higher wattage, but they *do* produce more light by
driving a smaller filament harder - that is, they put the same wattage
through a smaller filament, making it hotter.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
m...@privacy.net
>they shouldn't be higher wattage, but they *do* produce more light by
>driving a smaller filament harder - that is, they put the same wattage
>through a smaller filament, making it hotter.
Ahhh..... I see Nate.... thanks!
tenne
> "Steve Austin" <saus...@northnet.org> wrote in message news:4b223c4f$0$26136
One thing that often gets overlooked is the ground circuit. Make sure
that there is a good connection on the ground side. My experience has
shown that cleaning the ground connection on the rad support or where
ever it is makes more improvement that any higher intensity light.
Chris
Nate Nagel
Now if you convert to H4s, you can get some bulbs of *ahem* questionable
legality... on the shelf I have two pair of 90/100W H4s... never felt
the need to use 'em though (55/60s are bright enough in good Cibie
reflectors, and with a relay harness are WAAAAAAAY brighter than the
original non-halogen sealed beams that were in my car)
Nate Nagel
In the case of my pickemup truck, I did clean all the grounds I could
find and reassembled them with silicone grease, and did the same with
the battery terminals and the connections on the other end of the
battery cables. I also removed the alternator and cleaned its
connector, and had it bench tested at my FLAPS, "no fault found."
It still starts every time, so I stopped worrying about it. It's
annoying to watch the headlights dim at idle though.
Steve W.
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote:
>>
>>> they shouldn't be higher wattage, but they *do* produce more light by
>>> driving a smaller filament harder - that is, they put the same
>>> wattage through a smaller filament, making it hotter.
>>
>> Ahhh..... I see Nate.... thanks!
>
> Now if you convert to H4s, you can get some bulbs of *ahem* questionable
> legality... on the shelf I have two pair of 90/100W H4s... never felt
> the need to use 'em though (55/60s are bright enough in good Cibie
> reflectors, and with a relay harness are WAAAAAAAY brighter than the
> original non-halogen sealed beams that were in my car)
>
> nate
>
I'm using those "off road only" bulbs quite a bit. They work pretty good
in the spot/flood lights we have on the engines. You have to make a
reflector for the housing to accept the bulbs but they seem to work Ok
and they are MUCH MUCH cheaper than the factory sealed beams. (the
normal sealed beam units cost 90 bucks per bulb! and each head takes
three....)
--
Steve W.
Scott Dorsey
>"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
>> There's nothing to say you have to use the original replacement. Some of
>> the
>> 1-wire GM units will last forever and are easy to rebuild yourself, too,
>> and they can be retrofitted onto just about anything, including foreign
>> cars...
>
>nestle that alternator into. This alternator was designed to put out over
>100 amps in that small package. You could buy an "Iceberg" kit for it which
>might make it last longer, but if the fins on the kit took up too much room,
>then it wouldnt go.
That sounds... really horrible.
Steve
Its also a symptom of an intermittent ground in the alternator field
circuit. Brief grounding of the field full-fields the alternator and
shoots the system voltage to the high side of 20 volts... pop go the
lights. Been there, done that... :-(
Steve
Nah. You just wire in a 72-up standalone Chrysler voltage regulator. The
exact same circuit got replicated onto the ECU board, so the function is
identical.
Steve
> My last GM alternator only lasted 190,000 miles and 20 years. Pure
> crap.
>
Obviously not a CS120. Delco made some GREAT alternators... and some
utter crap.
Steve
> hls <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>> Size was a problem on this one, Scott. There was only a very small space to
>> nestle that alternator into. This alternator was designed to put out over
>> 100 amps in that small package. You could buy an "Iceberg" kit for it which
>> might make it last longer, but if the fins on the kit took up too much room,
>> then it wouldnt go.
>
> That sounds... really horrible.
Yeah... it sounds horrible until you saw the WATER-cooled alternator
setup on some Northstar Cadillacs. Then it looks a little less horrible.
Ick.
Steve
Yes. Also the first with electronic ignition, and the first with
electronic voltage regulators. Among other things. Chrysler was a world
leader in automotive engineering... once upon a time, not all that long
ago :-(
Steve Austin
I figured to do something like that if I ever owned one. I could never
do that to a customer's car. (I know - never say never)
Nate Nagel
yup, Chrysler and Studebaker were ahead of Ford and GM with a lot of
things that really mattered (I mention Studebaker for adopting disc
brakes, and also electronic ignition - not sure if they had it before
Chrysler or just at the same time, although it still used points instead
of a Hall sender or other electronic means) and look where it got 'em.
Of course, only Ford is really left standing at the moment...
cuh...@webtv.net
What is 72 up?
cuhulin, the dummy
cuh...@webtv.net
flexible brake hoses.That kept the hoses from ballooning when the brakes
are used.
cuhulin
Nate Nagel
I think he means model year 1972 or later. They're all the same basic
thing for a decade or more IIRC so if you ask for one for, say, a '74
Imperial you'll get what you want.
Steve
Model year 72 through the time when the VR became part of the ECU.
m...@privacy.net
>I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 180k miles on it.
>
>Last June one of my low beams burnt out. So, as a
>precaution, I replace ALL the bulbs including tail
>lights, etc.
>
>I used Sylvania XtraVision as replacement headlamps....
>pretty standard 2003 bulb
>
>http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
>
>Two days ago I went to Walmart and when I came out BOTH
>low beams were non-functional after only 5 months
>service!! All else worked fine including high beams
>and all turn/parking lights.... but no low beams!
>
>Surely this is unusual given both bulbs out and such
>low life, yes? Or does this actually happen more than
>I think?
>
>Question.... what abt replacing them with LED units
>that have super long life? I am university student and
>don't like working on cars or have much time for it?
>
>Bottom line....chalk it up to happenstance and put
>another set of Sylvania bulbs at $18? Or maybe look
>for other cause or go LED?
A follow up to MY above original post from awhile back:
Last week my alternator DIED..... I now think the
problem above was just a symptom of a bad
alternator.... as some suggested.
However, new alternator and two new belts cost $450!!
That abt right price for that?
Nate Nagel
Installed? Brand new? that ain't bad. A reman alt for a VW Corrado is
about that much just for the part.
m...@privacy.net
>Installed? Brand new? that ain't bad. A reman alt for a VW Corrado is
>about that much just for the part.
>
>nate
yes
m...@privacy.net
>Installed? Brand new? that ain't bad. A reman alt for a VW Corrado is
>about that much just for the part.
yeah I guess its not bad...considering I got 182k miles
out of original alternator, yes?
Nate Nagel
yeah... and since you seemed to be having overvoltage problems, it was
likely the regulator that was bad, so a "quick fix" benchtop "rebuild"
with new brushes and oil for the bearings wouldn't have fixed it
Steve
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Installed? Brand new? that ain't bad. A reman alt for a VW Corrado
>>> is about that much just for the part.
>>
>> yeah I guess its not bad...considering I got 182k miles
>> out of original alternator, yes?
>
> yeah... and since you seemed to be having overvoltage problems, it was
> likely the regulator that was bad, so a "quick fix" benchtop "rebuild"
> with new brushes and oil for the bearings wouldn't have fixed it
>
> nate
>
Actually Ill bet it had a short to ground in the field (rotor) coil.
That will cause very high voltage spikes until it fails permanently and
burns out the rotor coil.