A/C vs climate control. me thinks 1:0

[AD]

I like the simplicity of A/C setups over climate controls (esp dual
units).

Firstly you get mechanical wheels to adjust air flow and temp
and, secondly, you don't have to guess what happens if it's
21C outside and you have the temp set to 22C.

Does it warm up the air if I shut off A/C switching to vent mode?
I don't want it to.

I don't have to guess in 18-22C outside range with A/C systems:
just turn off a/c and turn the temp all the way to the low setting
vary the fan speed to taste in that 4C/7F range.

Any climate control affictionados care to comment how all the
complexity is supposed to pay off?

[Vic Smith]

It always "pays off" for those that pay for it. Human nature.
I wouldn't pay for it, because I'm KISS.
Bells and whistles.

--
Vic

[Bill]

In article <01e51afa-349a-4b50-a3eb-
5f8977...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>, isq...@gmail.com says...

Well I notice I don't fiddle with the controls as much with a system
where you just set the temperature in degrees and forget it.

So I suppose that could mean you are paying a bit more attention to your
driving - a tad more safety.

Although for myself that does not matter because I only fiddle with
controls in the car when it is safe to do so (it is safe to take my eyes
away from the road for a moment).

I know inexperienced drivers will take their eyes off the road for
several seconds (rather than just one second) and a LOT of stuff can
happen in those several seconds if you are going fast.

Then it is common for one person to prefer a cooler or warmer
temperature than another. So I suppose a dual temperature system could
make for a more pleasant trip in some cases.

[hls]

"Bill" <Nomail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2a2925cb5...@news.individual.net...

> So I suppose a dual temperature system could
> make for a more pleasant trip in some cases.

Pleasant enough when they work correctly, but being more
complicated, they are more prone to failure and more expensive
to work on.

Our Avalon has this system, it is pleasant, and we have never
had a problem with it BUT our previous Buick was a PITA.

[AMuzi]

Never had A/C of any description, don't want it. All my cars
have wing windows and mechanical footwell vents including
the convertible. meh.

Girlfriend loves her electronic and complex system.

Suit yourself; Choice is good.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[jim beam]

i'm with you on that. i once drove through the mojave desert at noon to
las vegas in july. no a/c, open windows.

don't get me wrong, it was good and toasty, and you had to drink a lot,
but that's what summer and deserts are all about. girlie bleated and
complained the whole freakin' way though. she never would have made it
west in a conestoga wagon.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[N8N]

Meh, I always thought that climate control was something of a
frivolous gimmick until one day I realized that I was always
comfortable in my old 944, and hadn't touched the HVAC controls in
months. As opposed to every other car I've had where it seems like
I'm always fiddling with them.

Something else that car had that I really liked and wished every car
had was the heated outside mirrors. Worth their weight in gold in the
wintertime.

nate

[MG]

"N8N" <njn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:66bdf9c6-45be-49ea...@d33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey. It sucks in my 2007 VW.
I'm a split vote.

[gregz]

It's usually better to partially open the windows. It's just hitting you
with more hot air. Been through that in a 74 1/2 mustang, no air.

Greg

[gregz]

64 1/2

Greg

[ckoz...@snet.net]

That's what happened when VW moved their assembly to Mexico, et al! German reliability went out the window. Shame, the world's best handling outside of the big Italians(Maserati, 'Ghini), but hit & miss reliability.

[Yousuf Khan]

On 25/05/2012 6:42 PM, MG wrote:
> Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey. It sucks in my 2007 VW.
> I'm a split vote.

That's because it's a European car -- bad electricals. No one is ever
going to convince me that a European car (Germans included) is higher
quality than a Japanese car.

You can really tell a good quality car when you take it out into a
winter of Canada, not by driving them around in the stable climate of
southern California. Good quality cars will not have strange electrical
problems between the winter and the summer. My own 2000 Subaru Outback
is a Japanese car made in America, so it's showing signs of a hybrid
American/Japanese quality.

Yousuf Khan

[N8N]

I don't think this is a better/worse dichotomy.

A German car, traditionally, (of course there are exceptions to the
rule) is designed more with serviceability in mind, and will require
more frequent and extensive maintenance. However, if you keep up on
the recommended maintenance and repair anything faulty as soon as it
occurs, the vehicle will likely last until the chassis rusts in two.
(Apparently my mom's old '86 Golf was spotted on the road again, after
being bought out of the junkyard that the guy that bought it from my
mom sent it to after a couple years...)

A Japanese car will likely require less attention during the first
150-200K miles of its life. Then, at some point, it will begin nickel
and diming you to death. It'll also be a pain in the arse to work on,
requiring flexible forearms and dainty hands.

Now those are gross generalizations, and I don't think that they're
necessarily even true anymore as even the Germans have finally
realized that very few people keep their cars past 150K miles.
However, it certainly was true in the past and was a big part of my
penchant for German cars. Growing up in Pennsylvania to a family of
mostly German ancestry, the "fix it forever" mentality rubbed off on
me so obviously the German philosophy of cars appealed to me. (the
"Pennsylvania Dutch" are really Germans, you know, and their
reputation for being frugal is probably matched only by the
Scottish.) That, and German cars are just fun to drive.

To the exact subject at hand, I had no problems whatsoever with the
climate control on my 944, and in fact the only real problems I had
with it were a bad ECU (common,) a CV joint (wear item) and a bent
wheel that nobody could diagnose (I'll blame that one on incompetent
mechanics. I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known
good" used wheels and tires and swapping them out one by one, not
having access to my own balancer.) I'd probably still be driving it
today if I didn't have a job with a company car.

nate

[jim beam]

On 05/29/2012 07:15 AM, N8N wrote:
> On May 29, 8:17�am, Yousuf Khan<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 25/05/2012 6:42 PM, MG wrote:
>>
>>> Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey. It sucks in my 2007 VW.
>>> I'm a split vote.
>>
>> That's because it's a European car -- bad electricals. No one is ever
>> going to convince me that a European car (Germans included) is higher
>> quality than a Japanese car.
>>
>> You can really tell a good quality car when you take it out into a
>> winter of Canada, not by driving them around in the stable climate of
>> southern California. Good quality cars will not have strange electrical
>> problems between the winter and the summer. My own 2000 Subaru Outback
>> is a Japanese car made in America, so it's showing signs of a hybrid
>> American/Japanese quality.
>>
>> � � � � Yousuf Khan
>
> I don't think this is a better/worse dichotomy.
>
> A German car, traditionally, (of course there are exceptions to the
> rule) is designed more with serviceability in mind, and will require
> more frequent and extensive maintenance.

??? so all those expensive special tools for jobs that on other cars
simply require a couple of ordinary wrenches, is all about
"serviceability"??? you're out of your freakin' mind.

<snip drivel>

> the Germans have finally
> realized that very few people keep their cars past 150K miles.

other way around big guy - the germans decided that they didn't /want/
you driving a car past 150k miles. less actually. i know this for fact
because one of my materials professors was a consultant and helped them
solve some very difficult "bathtub curve" lifetime limitation issues
which they couldn't otherwise solve. to be clear, this was to design
the rear of the tub /in/, not out as was previously the case.
technically very difficult. [it costs more to manufacture, but it's
worth it in increased sales.]

> To the exact subject at hand,

unusual

> I had no problems whatsoever with the
> climate control on my 944, and in fact the only real problems I had
> with it were a bad ECU (common,)

if that's not a "real problem", then getting beaten to death with a
piece of 2x4 is merely getting a headache...

> a CV joint (wear item)

and yet a properly maintained honda joint will last 300+k miles...

> and a bent
> wheel that nobody could diagnose (I'll blame that one on incompetent
> mechanics.

no nate, that's down to you. 100%. diagnosis is simply measuring with
a gauge while rotating. if you couldn't do that yourself [quite
extraordinary for an "engineer"], then any shop not doing it chose not
to because you're such a pain in the ass.

> I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known
> good" used wheels and tires and swapping them out one by one, not
> having access to my own balancer.)

so they weren't bent, they were merely out of balance? you don't know
what you're talking about. as usual.

> I'd probably still be driving it
> today if I didn't have a job with a company car.

yeah, that government job where incompetents get paid to be clueless and
incapable, and waste time on usenet during office hours.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[AS]

My friend's jetta electric windows have a mind of their own, open and
close when they think it is time... Second Yousuf's opinion.

Mercedes and BMW have had their share of electrical problems as well.

[Scott Dorsey]

AS <do...@spamme.com> wrote:
>My friend's jetta electric windows have a mind of their own, open and
>close when they think it is time... Second Yousuf's opinion.

There's a door seal that is bad, I bet. Water is getting where it should
not, which is a common problem with these.

>Mercedes and BMW have had their share of electrical problems as well.

This is because they put electronic gadgets on everything. The BMW electronics
are actually very reliable, but you add ten times the amount of electronic crap
on the car, even even reliable electronics are ten times less reliable. And
Mercedes is even worse in that regard. Both also suffer from the typical
German "why use one part when you can use two" philosophy as well.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Yousuf Khan]

On 29/05/2012 10:15 AM, N8N wrote:
> On May 29, 8:17 am, Yousuf Khan<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 25/05/2012 6:42 PM, MG wrote:
>>
>>> Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey. It sucks in my 2007 VW.
>>> I'm a split vote.
>>
>> That's because it's a European car -- bad electricals. No one is ever
>> going to convince me that a European car (Germans included) is higher
>> quality than a Japanese car.
>>
>> You can really tell a good quality car when you take it out into a
>> winter of Canada, not by driving them around in the stable climate of
>> southern California. Good quality cars will not have strange electrical
>> problems between the winter and the summer. My own 2000 Subaru Outback
>> is a Japanese car made in America, so it's showing signs of a hybrid
>> American/Japanese quality.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>
> I don't think this is a better/worse dichotomy.
>
> A German car, traditionally, (of course there are exceptions to the
> rule) is designed more with serviceability in mind, and will require
> more frequent and extensive maintenance. However, if you keep up on
> the recommended maintenance and repair anything faulty as soon as it
> occurs, the vehicle will likely last until the chassis rusts in two.
> (Apparently my mom's old '86 Golf was spotted on the road again, after
> being bought out of the junkyard that the guy that bought it from my
> mom sent it to after a couple years...)

Are you kidding?!? The exception to the rule is when a German car is
_actually_ easily serviceable. Some current Mercedes and BMW's (don't
know about Audis) have a cover over their engine bays to prevent you
from servicing them.

> A Japanese car will likely require less attention during the first
> 150-200K miles of its life. Then, at some point, it will begin nickel
> and diming you to death. It'll also be a pain in the arse to work on,
> requiring flexible forearms and dainty hands.

Every car nickels and dimes you to death once they start getting on in age.

Yousuf Khan

[Yousuf Khan]

My first -- and only -- German car I ever had was in the 80's, and even
back then, it suffered from gadgetitis. And on top of that, they would
wholesale change out every part in the car from one model year to the
next, even if the car didn't change in appearance. So that guaranteed
that all parts were extremely expensive, and not available in stock.
After that car I said, goodbye to German cars. For those who think
European cars are easy to service, then the days of the original
cheap-as-cheese VW Beetle are long since passed, even the new Beetle is
loaded with gadgets.

Yousuf Khan

[jim beam]

no, he's not kidding. just ignorant, inexperienced, and incapable of
learning.

> The exception to the rule is when a German car is
> _actually_ easily serviceable. Some current Mercedes and BMW's (don't
> know about Audis) have a cover over their engine bays to prevent you
> from servicing them.

indeed. but nate couldn't recognize reality, let alone admit its
existence, if it smacked him over the head with a herring.

>
>> A Japanese car will likely require less attention during the first
>> 150-200K miles of its life. Then, at some point, it will begin nickel
>> and diming you to death. It'll also be a pain in the arse to work on,
>> requiring flexible forearms and dainty hands.
>
> Every car nickels and dimes you to death once they start getting on in age.

german car's don't nickel and dime you, they gold and silver dollar you.


>
> Yousuf Khan


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[Yousuf Khan]

On 25/05/2012 5:35 AM, AD wrote:
> I like the simplicity of A/C setups over climate controls (esp dual
> units).
>
> Firstly you get mechanical wheels to adjust air flow and temp
> and, secondly, you don't have to guess what happens if it's
> 21C outside and you have the temp set to 22C.

I've had climate control, and I've liked it, but I don't find much
advantage to it over standard controls. But then again, I live in a
country where the knob is usually placed at full-blast all of the time,
whether it's full-blast heating or full-blast AC -- or full-blast turned
off. Very little fiddling needed in between.

Yousuf Khan

[AD]

On May 25, 10:30 pm, N8N <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 5:35 am, AD <isq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I like the simplicity of A/C setups over climate controls (esp dual
> > units).
>
> > Firstly you get mechanical wheels to adjust air flow and temp
> > and, secondly, you don't have to guess what happens if it's
> > 21C outside and you have the temp set to 22C.
>
> > Does it warm up the air if I shut off A/C switching to vent mode?
> > I don't want it to.
>
> > I don't have to guess in 18-22C outside range with A/C systems:
> > just turn off a/c and turn the temp all the way to the low setting
> > vary the fan speed to taste in that 4C/7F range.
>
> > Any climate control affictionados care to comment how all the
> > complexity is supposed to pay off?
>
> Meh, I always thought that climate control was something of a
> frivolous gimmick until one day I realized that I was always
> comfortable in my old 944, and hadn't touched the HVAC controls in
> months.  As opposed to every other car I've had where it seems like
> I'm always fiddling with them.

I need different settings before and after the meal (higher before,
lower after when body starts to produce much more heat
that needs to be dissipated)