Toyota just lost a sale
Ashton Crusher
killed the cop and his family one of the ladies in my office said she
was ruling out buying a Highlander as a result. She wants to get a
bigger car for her family and was looking at Highlanders but not
anymore. Frankly I was amazed that something like this would so
quickly turn off a buyer.
Hachiroku ハチロク
I am too, considering the Highlander is not one of the vehicles affected
by the problem.
Tegger
news:shjtg5p8te53o9huh...@4ax.com:
And that's likely just the sort of thing Toyota is trying to prevent by
jumping all over the issue the way they are.
--
Tegger
Vic Smith
wrote:
In the end folks will remember the lengths that Toyota went to to fix
it more than the initial problem.
Something the domestics never learned.
--Vic
phaeton
-J
cuh...@webtv.net
the vehicles I own now, I have never had any problems concerning
sticking gas pedals, or otherwise ''runaway vehicles''.
cuhulin
dsi1
I'll bet you a buck that this lady will remember Toyotas as unsafe
vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame of
the Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
>
> --Vic
>
Hachiroku ハチロク
Funny, isn't it? After 40+ years in the US making safe, reliable cars, one
error taints the brand for a while?
Bet she goes out and buys an Equinox...
BTW, as I mentioned, the Highlander was not affected. But, that doesn't
matter to people who don't pay attention.
>
>
>> --Vic
>>
Hachiroku ハチロク
YOU know how to drive...
dsi1
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:51:47 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:23:13 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <inv...@invalid.inv>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote in
>>>> news:shjtg5p8te53o9huh...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> After the news came out about the unintended acceleration problem that
>>>>> killed the cop and his family one of the ladies in my office said she
>>>>> was ruling out buying a Highlander as a result. She wants to get a
>>>>> bigger car for her family and was looking at Highlanders but not
>>>>> anymore. Frankly I was amazed that something like this would so
>>>>> quickly turn off a buyer.
>>>>
>>>> And that's likely just the sort of thing Toyota is trying to prevent by
>>>> jumping all over the issue the way they are.
>>> In the end folks will remember the lengths that Toyota went to to fix it
>>> more than the initial problem.
>>> Something the domestics never learned.
>> I'll bet you a buck that this lady will remember Toyotas as unsafe
>> vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame of the
>> Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
>
> Funny, isn't it? After 40+ years in the US making safe, reliable cars, one
> error taints the brand for a while?
Wish I could get a Lexus - hey, maybe the prices will drop! I remember
when that Audi 5000 hassle came about. I though it would be a great time
to get one. Unfortunately, the damn seats were too hard on my ass. I
have a normal ass so it beats me how most folks could stand driving that
model for any length of time. That's the breaks - it's always
something... :-)
cuh...@webtv.net
top of the ceiling joists in my attic so I can stash my junk up there
and little doggy and I can have some space down below.That plywood is
rough on my knees.I went to Lowe's and I bought some cheap knee
pads.Makes all the difference in the world for my knees.
cuhulin
dsi1
Amazing seat materials. Advanced German/European thinking. Evidently, my
ass was not up to the European standards of the time. My guess is that
these days, European asses are getting to be more like good old American
ass, i.e., softer and fatter. Yay! :-)
Tegger
>
> I'll bet you a buck that this lady will remember Toyotas as unsafe
> vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame of
> the Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
Possibly influential difference: Ford stonewalled on the Pinto for quite a
while. Toyota never did that.
And Audi had no problem to fix in the first place, which put them in a bit
of a spot as to what to do before somebody came up with the idea of the
brake interlock.
--
Tegger
Hal
> quickly turn off a buyer.
And Toyota as a whole just shrugs and waves....maybe she'll go buy a
Ford. Then we can all laugh at her when she starts getting the recall
notices and repair bills....
At least Toyota is owning up to the problem, something several other
auto makers could take a lesson or two from. And as far as the folks
who got killed by their runaway cars, why are these people not putting
the transmission in neutral? Or holding down the 'start/stop' button
to kill the engine? It's sad that people die from this but
seriously..did they read the owners manual? Do they know how to safely
operate the car? Because it sure seems to me they did not.....
Chris
Hal
> vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame of
> the Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
>
The pinto -was- an unsafe vehicle. The differential case would
puncture the gas tank in a rear-end collision and start a fire, and
what exacerbated the problem was the fact that the doors would jam
shut in a rear collision due to deformation of the passenger
compartment. Do a little reading on the infamous "ford memo" where it
was decided the cost of fixing the cars to be safe would be more
expensive than paying off the families of the people who got killed.
Quality is Job 1 my ass.......Ford should be ashamed that they ever
did something that horrible.
The Audi...rumor has it the gas pedal and the brake were a little too
close together, and people would hit both accidentally. I never owned
one so I don't know, but I'd sure as hell take an Audi 5000 over a
pinto, or any other ford for that matter.
Chris.
AZ Nomad
>And Audi had no problem to fix in the first place, which put them in a bit
>of a spot as to what to do before somebody came up with the idea of the
>brake interlock.
And when the infamous audi unintended acceleration cases all vanished
with the addition of the interlock, it became obvious that the cases
were all ones where the driver had confused the pedals.
dsi1
>> I'll bet you a buck that this lady will remember Toyotas as unsafe
>> vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame of
>> the Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
>>
>
> The pinto -was- an unsafe vehicle. The differential case would
> puncture the gas tank in a rear-end collision and start a fire, and
> what exacerbated the problem was the fact that the doors would jam
> shut in a rear collision due to deformation of the passenger
> compartment. Do a little reading on the infamous "ford memo" where it
> was decided the cost of fixing the cars to be safe would be more
> expensive than paying off the families of the people who got killed.
> Quality is Job 1 my ass.......Ford should be ashamed that they ever
> did something that horrible.
As I recall, it was a protruding bolt in the differential that posed a
hazard. This was a problem but I don't believe that this resulted in any
more deaths than other cars, at least I've never read anywhere that this
was true, although most people seem to feel that it is.
I have heard of the Ford memo. This memo dealt with the costs to the
automotive industry of making cars and trucks resistant to fuel leaks
during roll-overs. The fact that car companies do not build cars with
racing safety fuel cells means that they still do these studies today.
>
> The Audi...rumor has it the gas pedal and the brake were a little too
> close together, and people would hit both accidentally. I never owned
> one so I don't know, but I'd sure as hell take an Audi 5000 over a
> pinto, or any other ford for that matter.
I never noticed anything strange about the Audi's pedals during my
limited time in the car, but it could be. I've owned a Capri and used to
drive a Pinto company car. They're pretty good driving cars as far as
driver control and handling goes. Compared to most other cars of the 70s
they were quite enjoyable to drive. Build quality was so-so. That's the
breaks.
>
> Chris.
phaeton
As I recall reading previously, according to the NHTSA, of the 2
million Pintos built, only 27 deaths ever resulted from fire. This is
typical for highway safety of the time in any car. There also were no
specifics about each accident- for all anyone knows these people could
have crashed into a train or a gas station. I also recall Ford
eventually recalling Pintos and putting plastic caps on the bolts of
the diff (decide for yourself i that will make a difference) and that
the notorious "Ford Pinto Memo" was actually false.
Keep in mind also, that a number of years ago when GM was accosted for
the saddle tanks outside the frame rails in their full-size trucks, we
also heard a "statement" similar to "it will be cheaper for us to pay
off lawsuits from actual cases than to recall all 3.4M vehicles".
-J
dsi1
>
> As I recall reading previously, according to the NHTSA, of the 2
> million Pintos built, only 27 deaths ever resulted from fire. This is
> typical for highway safety of the time in any car. There also were no
> specifics about each accident- for all anyone knows these people could
> have crashed into a train or a gas station. I also recall Ford
> eventually recalling Pintos and putting plastic caps on the bolts of
> the diff (decide for yourself i that will make a difference) and that
Those must have been some caps!
> the notorious "Ford Pinto Memo" was actually false.
In the sense that it wasn't about the Pinto or rear-end crashes or
specifically about Ford, you're right.
>
> Keep in mind also, that a number of years ago when GM was accosted for
> the saddle tanks outside the frame rails in their full-size trucks, we
> also heard a "statement" similar to "it will be cheaper for us to pay
> off lawsuits from actual cases than to recall all 3.4M vehicles".
Boy, you can't put that fuel tank anywhere! OTOH, anywhere was better
than sticking it on the passenger's lap like in a VW type 1.
>
> -J
fred
news:b67d4281-ac71-4257...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>> anymore. �Frankly I was amazed that something like this would so
>> quickly turn off a buyer.
>
> And Toyota as a whole just shrugs and waves....maybe she'll go buy a
> Ford. Then we can all laugh at her when she starts getting the recall
> notices and repair bills....
>
And the calls from the collection agency about her unpaid car loan from
Ford credit despite her using a bank directly.
tn...@mucks.net
>>And that's likely just the sort of thing Toyota is trying to prevent by
>>jumping all over the issue the way they are.
>
>In the end folks will remember the lengths that Toyota went to to fix
>it more than the initial problem.
>Something the domestics never learned.
You mean the length that Toyota went to ignore the problem until the
news media couldn't ignore it any longer?
You really think the gas pedal is the true fix? Just as the floor mat
was a diversion, so is the gas pedal.
Nate Nagel
I'm not... now I'm not a target buyer for a Prius, I always wondered
about cramming that much electronics into a car and how good an idea it
was to have that much fly by wire stuff, recent events have only made it
less likely for me to buy one. I like nice direct connections between
my feet and the throttle, brakes, clutch etc. - maybe not the most
efficient but definitely the safest.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Hachiroku ハチロク
I have had this same concern myself. Now, I am an electronics technician,
so the thought of my Scion's drive-by-wire throttle quitting in the middle
of East Overshoe, VT doesn't bother me TOO much; I have AAA 100 mile tow
service and rearely venture further than that.
What does bother me is that, perhaps when the potentiometer goes it also
takes the ECU with it, and now what was a ~$10 repair is now a $1210
repair. Plus, a lot of people say it's in my head, but I NEVER stalled a
car as much off the line as this one! There is a slight hesitation that
you can correct in a car with a traditional throttle linkage that can't be
trimmed out. I read in a Scion forum you can adjust the pot to take out
the slack, but I found it only works until the ECU relearns the pot
setting and...it comes back again.
I don't even want to think of drive-by-wire steering or brakes. Anyone got
an '88 Corolla for sale?
Hachiroku ハチロク
Do they have ass pads?
Tegger
news:slrnhgul2h.6...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net:
I'm not too sure about the "all vanished" thing. Apparently there were
about 10,000 cases of UA from 1985 to 2003.
<http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/18/local/me-pedal18>
And:
<http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/george-russell-weller>
Since by about 1991 just about all new AT-equipped vehicles came with brake
interlocks, I suspect a good chunk of those 10,000 drivers managed to find
a way to get a car to go out of control even with the interlock in the way.
After all, the interlock only comes into play when moving out of Park. It's
still possible to mess up afterwards. One of those incidents is mentioned
in the LA Times articles I referenced above.
--
Tegger
Tegger
Hey, I just had a Jimmy Neutron-type Brain Blast! Just remove the gas pedal
from the vehicle entirely. With only a brake pedal to push, it will be next
to impossible to get yourself into an accident. Problem solved!
My idea is so brilliant I'll have to consider patenting it.
--
Tegger
dsi1
In a short while, the accelerator will all be by wire, mostly because
we'll be driving electric. Maybe braking too. I'm not so sure about the
steering because there's no compelling reason to go that route. You can
say goodbye to the clutch pedal. :-(
>
> nate
>
Hachiroku ハチロク
I still think the whole problem is the nut behind the steering wheel.
Toyota is not one to take things lightly. They probably determined the
cause is Operator Error, and are now going to make changes to protect
themselves from us...
hls
"Ashton Crusher" <de...@moore.net> wrote in message
news:shjtg5p8te53o9huh...@4ax.com...
> After the news came out about the unintended acceleration problem that
> killed the cop and his family one of the ladies in my office said she
> was ruling out buying a Highlander as a result. She wants to get a
> bigger car for her family and was looking at Highlanders but not
> anymore. Frankly I was amazed that something like this would so
> quickly turn off a buyer.
Overreaction. This is really an "un-problem". Toyota is going the
second mile to try to eliminate this accelerator pedal hanging in an
overly long carpet.
It ISNT a quality issue, but rather a perceived safety hazard which is
being dealt with quickly.
Tegger
wrote in news:pan.2009.11.27....@e86.GTS:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:33:31 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey, I just had a Jimmy Neutron-type Brain Blast! Just remove the gas
>> pedal from the vehicle entirely. With only a brake pedal to push, it
>> will be next to impossible to get yourself into an accident. Problem
>> solved!
>>
>> My idea is so brilliant I'll have to consider patenting it.
>
>
> I still think the whole problem is the nut behind the steering wheel.
Oh, the "loose nut" theory again, huh?
How about we drill the nut and safety-wire it, like on an old race car? The
nut might complain a bit, especially during the drilling part. But hey,
it's for his own good, right?
--
Tegger
Hachiroku ハチロク
Tegger
wrote in news:pan.2009.11.28...@e86.GTS:
Would drilling those be more fun than drilling a nut?
Inquiring minds want to know.
--
Tegger
dsi1
���噤��恩�麗��屋姐�旭魂虻完��旭穐�壹艸纈��阡綺
�
松�戎蜩鎰屋臆㈱霓饋悲竏蜥闍�襲造促魯船蹈讐峠餌讐限申�者鴣緕鐇絽峡敗咯��阡�松�蜴�鈬�咋瘤�旭庚臼�勲桶�庚桶�慣晃粟絽峡敗唳
松
松���汝薔�卸�麗��屋姐�姥些該咳��旭穐�壹艸纈��阡綺
松�松�松松�斐彅��褫齡�葹��慕迯�励�鳫遶�鞳�択瘟�滝癈堯�宝齡�鱚迴����艨�松松�鞳籬�胙闕����蓍竚�緕�鱚踟��怏��闔踟��碣瘠�鞳籬���頤鼈��蜚
松松��跛�矼�鈬����蜊竟齠蛯跂���艱�尞�黼趾�蜴��瘤�痺竕粤銓��會閧跂�松松�齒踝繖�松松
松松�吏�蜆縺�蜩�齒�碣蛹跚瘤�彦跛�葹����竢銖蜆纈�鞜�銓蜴�蜚�
松�松��齡蛹��蜴����闌�頏閧跂�蜩���銛�矼蓍鈔���齡繞鱸鈑��繞谺
松
松
松�������闖黼�銛槇��繽鴒�瘍瘟遯�蔘菴
松
松�被��痰阨���糅蛹���銛�瘤�黶聽�∠蜥�蜚��跚諷�闔�瘤�闌�鱇竇�竅鮨
松�壽�銛�迚艾�竢逅赱蜴��砠��纉鞳竕瘡踟�糒鱸鈑���糅蛹跚鈑�鞜鶯��濯�松�蒹彅�蜚��肬�蓍�阯�苡閼��鱸艾�
�
�壽蜩�竢��蒹跟�齒踝���頏閧跂蹼�
�
�蔗�痕�繖蛛�矚�齬闥趙�闕�蜒�鱚�痺桶臼�痺繖瘍裙�韃
�
�
�
被踟�鉗韶跂�竏瘋紂
Tegger
news:heooc...@news3.newsguy.com:
I've owned cars that had the pedal affixed to the floorboard and pivoted at
that connection. This would be counter to the common modern practice of
hinging the gas pedal from a pivot point above the driver's foot.
It seems to my increasingly ancient and foggy brain that hinging the pedal
at the BOTTOM would necessarily prevent a floormat from being able to creep
beneath such a floor-hinged pedal. The floor mat might eventually creep on
TOP of the pedal and try to hold it down, but I think you'd get a fairly
progressive warning as that occurred.
So...
My first very silly question: Why don't they hinge the gas pedal at the
floor anymore?
My second very silly question: What was wrong with the old BMC practice of
putting a little metal roller on the end of the throttle-pedal rod instead
of a great big rubber pad?
--
Tegger
Tegger
news:CZ_Pm.45448$We2....@newsfe09.iad:
> Hachiroku ハチロク���阡綺
松�
松�蔗�痕�繖蛛�矚�齬闥趙�闕�蜒�鱚�痺桶臼�痺繖瘍裙�韃
松�
松�
松�
�
�被踟�鉗韶跂�竏瘋紂
�
�竅�轣諷��纃�矼�纈���謗阯�蓖�
⑬�
壹艸纈
phaeton
> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Tru...@e86.GTS>
> wrote innews:pan.2009.11.28...@e86.GTS:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:20:40 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>
> >> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Tru...@e86.GTS>
>
> >>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:33:31 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>
> >>>> Hey, I just had a Jimmy Neutron-type Brain Blast! Just remove the
> >>>> gas pedal from the vehicle entirely. With only a brake pedal to
> >>>> push, it will be next to impossible to get yourself into an
> >>>> accident. Problem solved!
>
> >>>> My idea is so brilliant I'll have to consider patenting it.
>
> >>> I still think the whole problem is the nut behind the steering
> >>> wheel.
>
> >> Oh, the "loose nut" theory again, huh?
>
> >> How about we drill the nut and safety-wire it, like on an old race
> >> car? The nut might complain a bit, especially during the drilling
> >> part. But hey, it's for his own good, right?
>
> > This could help solve the problem...
>
> >http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Mac2311/Racedagje.jpg
>
> Would drilling those be more fun than drilling a nut?
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> --
> Tegger
Makes one wonder how female auto racers fare in a crash whilst in the
regulation 5-link harness.
Ashton Crusher
wrote:
>Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
The issue with both is that they create holes in the floor and rust
attacks those spots. Suspended pedals don't have that problem.
Nate Nagel
That hesitation is one thing that really annoys me about my company car
('08 Impala) oddly I never noticed it on my old (now my mom's) GTI 1.8T
which also has a DBW throttle control.
I guess that's good because the Impala is an automatic and the GTI is
obviously a stick; would suck balls if the situtation were reversed.
Well, actually, I would never have bought the GTI if it'd had that issue...
Nate Nagel
Got me. I actually liked the feel of bottom hinged pedals, although the
only cars I've driven with them are old Porsches and Studebakers.
However, I have had a Studebaker gas pedal stick under the edge of a
firewall insulator once...
Pete C.
Suspended pedals also are better for power adjustable pedal setups.
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>that connection. This would be counter to the common modern practice of
>hinging the gas pedal from a pivot point above the driver's foot.
>
>It seems to my increasingly ancient and foggy brain that hinging the pedal
>at the BOTTOM would necessarily prevent a floormat from being able to creep
>beneath such a floor-hinged pedal. The floor mat might eventually creep on
>TOP of the pedal and try to hold it down, but I think you'd get a fairly
>progressive warning as that occurred.
>
>So...
>
>My first very silly question: Why don't they hinge the gas pedal at the
>floor anymore?
>
firewall. And the natural angle with the bottom hinge is a trap for
debris.
Not that I haven't had dropped stuff catch behind a top-hinged pedal.
Just guesses.
>My second very silly question: What was wrong with the old BMC practice of
>putting a little metal roller on the end of the throttle-pedal rod instead
>of a great big rubber pad?
Don't know anything about that. Do seem to recall some kind of roller
on pedal assemblies long, long ago.
--Vic
aemeijers
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:37:28 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <inv...@invalid.inv>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
>>> news:heooc...@news3.newsguy.com:
>>>
>>>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> So...
>>>
>>> My first very silly question: Why don't they hinge the gas pedal at the
>>> floor anymore?
>>>
>>> My second very silly question: What was wrong with the old BMC practice of
>>> putting a little metal roller on the end of the throttle-pedal rod instead
>>> of a great big rubber pad?
>> The issue with both is that they create holes in the floor and rust
>> attacks those spots. Suspended pedals don't have that problem.
>
> Suspended pedals also are better for power adjustable pedal setups.
Floor mounted gas pedal would also add steps to the assembly process,
since it would have to go in after the carpet. Other than an old VW I
had, I haven't seen a floor-mounted pedal since some of the 1960s GM
boats. I'm sure there were others out there, but I never sat behind the
wheel of one.
--
aem sends...
Phil
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1573-4B0E...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> Of all the vehicles I have owned before since over fifty years ago, and
> the vehicles I own now, I have never had any problems concerning
> sticking gas pedals, or otherwise ''runaway vehicles''.
> cuhulin
>
...........
Yeah Larry, but did any of them actually run? LOL How you doing Larry? Just
kidding you.
C. E. White
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11.26....@e86.GTS...
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:54:01 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> After the news came out about the unintended acceleration problem
>> that
>> killed the cop and his family one of the ladies in my office said
>> she was
>> ruling out buying a Highlander as a result. She wants to get a
>> bigger car
>> for her family and was looking at Highlanders but not anymore.
>> Frankly I
>> was amazed that something like this would so quickly turn off a
>> buyer.
>
> affected
> by the problem.
Unfortunately most people don't actually read the articles. I wasn't
worried by this "issue" at all. We never even gave it a thought when
car shopping. However, I've had two different friends call me and warn
me about the dangerous new Toyota my mother is driving. The SO has had
a friend call her about her RAV4 and her daughters 4Runner (neither of
which has been recalled)
On the other hand, the SO's father (a loyal Toyotaite) was disparging
a friends 10+ year old Chevy truck becasue it needed something done to
the valves (turns out it needed valve guide seals). I agreed this was
a common problem for some old Chevy V8s, but then I pointed out it was
a common problem for old Toyotas as well. He looked at me like I was
insane. He did not think Toyotas had problem like that. I asked him
about his old Camry...didn't it often blow a little blue smoke in the
morning? He admitted it did, but thought it wasn't a problem. I agreed
it wasn't a problem, but it was a sign of leaking valve guide seals -
exaclty the same problem as the old Chevy V8. Only difference was that
the Chevy guy got talked in to paying to fix it.
Ed
C. E. White
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5rmtg5p2r5d4fht0j...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:23:13 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
> <inv...@invalid.inv>>>news:shjtg5p8te53o9huh...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> After the news came out about the unintended acceleration problem
>>> that
>>> killed the cop and his family one of the ladies in my office said
>>> she
>>> was ruling out buying a Highlander as a result. She wants to get
>>> a
>>> bigger car for her family and was looking at Highlanders but not
>>> anymore. Frankly I was amazed that something like this would so
>>> quickly turn off a buyer.
>>
>>
>>
>>by
>>jumping all over the issue the way they are.
>
> In the end folks will remember the lengths that Toyota went to to
> fix
> it more than the initial problem.
> Something the domestics never learned.
This is just not true. Toyota has no choice but to fix it. NHTSA is
all over Toyota about this issue. In the old days, when Toyota had a
small percentage of the US market, they could jsut sweep problems
under the rug. Not any more. When you are number 1, you ahve a trget
on your back. NHTSA can't jsut ignore major defects from high volume
manufacturers.
Ed
C. E. White
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> Funny, isn't it? After 40+ years in the US making safe, reliable
> cars, one
> error taints the brand for a while?
ONE??????????????????????? You have to be kidding!
In the last few years Toyota has had to recall massive numebrs of
vehicle for safety defects - bad ball joints, rusting frames, rusting
rear suspension, faulty fuel systems, faulty seat belts, etc., etc.,
etc.
Take off those blinders!
Toyota builds some fine vehicles, just like many other manufacturers.
BUT, just like other manufacturers, Toyota has produced some real POS
vehicles and made dumb design desicions on some otherwise fine
vehicles.
Ed
>
> Bet she goes out and buys an Equinox...
>
> BTW, as I mentioned, the Highlander was not affected. But, that
> doesn't
> matter to people who don't pay attention.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> --Vic
>>>
>
C. E. White
"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9CCFD173...@208.90.168.18...
> dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com> wrote in
> news:ITBPm.12537$cX4....@newsfe10.iad:
>
>
>>
>> I'll bet you a buck that this lady will remember Toyotas as unsafe
>> vehicles for quite a while. At least that's the main claim to fame
>> of
>> the Ford Pinto and Audi 5000.
>
>
>
> Possibly influential difference: Ford stonewalled on the Pinto for
> quite a
> while. Toyota never did that.
BS! Toyota is the king of stonewalling. Go review the history of the
truck ball joint problems, or the truck frame rusitng problems. I
think this runaway Lexus is a bunch of hooey BUT, given all the media
attention and NHTSA pressure, Toyota had no choice but to react.
> And Audi had no problem to fix in the first place, which put them in
> a bit
> of a spot as to what to do before somebody came up with the idea of
> the
> brake interlock.
I think you are completely wrong when you say Ford stonewalled on the
Pinto gas tank issue. I believe many responsible people at Ford did
not think their was a problem and they fought a high profile lawsuit
in court and lost. Ford was clearly not balmeless in the case of the
Ford Pinto, however, I think if you go read the history of the case
you will see that the reality is far different than the public's
perception. I suggest you read the articles at:
http://www.pointoflaw.com/articles/The_Myth_of_the_Ford_Pinto_Case.pdf
http://www.wfu.edu/~palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html
Pintos were not dangerous vehicles compared to other car of comparable
size and cost.
Ed
C. E. White
"Hal" <hal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b08c7b11-f2ee-48c6...@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> The pinto -was- an unsafe vehicle. The differential case would
> puncture the gas tank in a rear-end collision and start a fire, and
> what exacerbated the problem was the fact that the doors would jam
> shut in a rear collision due to deformation of the passenger
> compartment. Do a little reading on the infamous "ford memo" where
> it
> was decided the cost of fixing the cars to be safe would be more
> expensive than paying off the families of the people who got killed.
> Quality is Job 1 my ass.......Ford should be ashamed that they ever
> did something that horrible.
You are repeating the same old BS originally spit out by Mother Jones
News. Go read the facts and I think you 'll quit repeating this
distroted history.
See:
sctvguy1
> My first very silly question: Why don't they hinge the gas pedal at the
> floor anymore?
My 1941 Chrysler has that arrangement! I think it was Ford that came up
with the hinged pedals in about 52 or so. I like pushing the clutch all
the way to the floor and knowing that the brake is directly connected to
the master cylinder.
sctvguy1
> The issue with both is that they create holes in the floor and rust
> attacks those spots. Suspended pedals don't have that problem.
They made rubber grommets that fit around the pedal stem to prevent water
and stuff from coming in the floorboard. My 41 Chrysler has those.
cuh...@webtv.net
companies have done them too.
cuhulin
Ashton Crusher
wrote:
That won't stop rust cancer from getting a start those places.