Bruton Buys Bristol!
Lynwood Matteson
: CWNA...@mci.newscorp.com (Craig Witkowski) writes:
: << SNIP >>
: >national champ, somewhat like other major sports with east-west
: >divisions.
: >We'll just see when the official announcement comes to pass about
: >Bristol, but given the track record of my bud's information, and who
: >his boss is, I believe what he told me is true.
: Geez, and JUST in my last post I was talking about how excited I was for the
: coming season. Oh well, I guess I better enjoy it - if this idea comes to
: fruition, this may just be my LAST season as a fan. Hmm - guess all I'll have
: left then is hockey :(
: Shaun
: 3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3
: * Shaun Lippy "If he'd come along when I did, he *
: 3 h-l...@cs.uiuc.edu might have won 300 races!" 3
: * Champaign, IL - Richard Petty on Dale Earnhardt *
: 3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3*3
Shaun-
An Earnhardt fan AND a hockey fan...you the MAN, shaun, you the MAN!!
And I'll bet you just LOVE the Red Wings, bein's how you're from the Shy-town
state:):) Seriously, I used to go to Red Wing games at the old Olympia
Stadium in Detroit, and loved the Blackhawk's uniforms...even saw Chicago
beat Montreal at Montreal.
Lynn
Craig Witkowski
purchased Bristol International Raceway, part of a master plan to
eventually go to a split series as was discussed here. 10 races would
be "overlap" races, where both divisions would go head-to-head, while
there would be other weekends where the two divisions would compete at
different tracks. It sounds as screwy as anything I've ever heard of,
but given what Bruton has done in the past, and his plans to have a
race in Texas THIS fall instead of at North Wilkesboro, I wouldn't put
it past him to try to get this done.
This would give the expansion to other markets, but still crown a
national champ, somewhat like other major sports with east-west
divisions.
We'll just see when the official announcement comes to pass about
Bristol, but given the track record of my bud's information, and who
his boss is, I believe what he told me is true.
Craig Witkowski CWNA...@mci.newscorp.com
#3, #25 WC / #11 ARCA / #3 BGN / #3, #16 ST / #12 Dash / #11 LMSC
rec.autos.sport.nascar Team Photographer / Test Driver
Andy Hillenburg Fan Club Member #3
Dennis Jones
a broadcast covered event (CBS, ABC) and when the feild gets stretced out and
there hasn't been a yellow for about 120 to 140 laps, you can count on a
"debris" call. They get the field bunched back up...
DE...@AOL.COM
Big D.
>fruition, this may just be my LAST season as a fan. Hmm - guess all I'll have
>left then is hockey :(
Yeh but are we gonna have to look at that damn Fox puck?
I tell ya this year is really getting off to a bad start for me. NW,
distraco-pucks, and now my favorite track has fallen into the hands of a man
whose intentions I do not trust.
What could be next? TV timeouts in racing? You know, throw the yellow and an
"official" walks out onto pit road and holds his hand up until the commercials
are over(if you've been to a televised college football game you'll know the
guy I'm talking about). Forget I said that. I don't want NASCAR getting any
ideas.
Big D.
--
'95 FLSTN
Go Icecaps! lb...@bnr.ca
Roush Racing Rules! Left wing
"That which doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger."
lippy harry shaun
<< SNIP >>
>national champ, somewhat like other major sports with east-west
>divisions.
>We'll just see when the official announcement comes to pass about
>Bristol, but given the track record of my bud's information, and who
>his boss is, I believe what he told me is true.
Geez, and JUST in my last post I was talking about how excited I was for the
coming season. Oh well, I guess I better enjoy it - if this idea comes to
fruition, this may just be my LAST season as a fan. Hmm - guess all I'll have
left then is hockey :(
Shaun
Lynwood Matteson
: h-l...@eehpx25.cen.uiuc.edu (lippy harry shaun) writes:
: >fruition, this may just be my LAST season as a fan. Hmm - guess all I'll have
: >left then is hockey :(
: Yeh but are we gonna have to look at that damn Fox puck?
: I tell ya this year is really getting off to a bad start for me. NW,
: distraco-pucks, and now my favorite track has fallen into the hands of a man
: whose intentions I do not trust.
: What could be next? TV timeouts in racing? You know, throw the yellow and an
: "official" walks out onto pit road and holds his hand up until the commercials
: are over(if you've been to a televised college football game you'll know the
: guy I'm talking about). Forget I said that. I don't want NASCAR getting any
: ideas.
: Big D.
: --
: '95 FLSTN
: Go Icecaps! lb...@bnr.ca
: Roush Racing Rules! Left wing
: "That which doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger."
I know we'll catch hell here for talkin' hockey, but I gotta agree...that
damn Glow-Puck has got to go...who had problems seein' the puck in the
first place? Of course, I used to be a goalie, so maybe my eyesight was
superior:):)
Lynn
Kimberly Hullfish
>Having been to the August Bristol race and also to Charlotte, I hope
>Bruton doesn't ruin a good thing at Bristol
>
>
Let's think about this one other way: Last spring, the Atlanta Journal
said that the Atlanta springrace has not been sold out, at least not in
the last 7 years. Also, the fall Charlotte race has not been sold out
at least for the past 3 years. If you want to drop a race from a
schedule, why not drop the ones that don't sell out? Too simple? Of
course, that would mean Smith losing 2 races, and with his power....
Kimberly
WC 42, 28, 81
bill bradshaw
Cheryl Woods
(Craig Witkowski) writes:
>
>I heard from a good friend in Charlotte that Bruton Smith has just
>purchased Bristol International Raceway, part of a master plan to
>eventually go to a split series as was discussed here. 10 races would
>be "overlap" races, where both divisions would go head-to-head, while
>there would be other weekends where the two divisions would compete at
>different tracks. It sounds as screwy as anything I've ever heard of,
>but given what Bruton has done in the past, and his plans to have a
>race in Texas THIS fall instead of at North Wilkesboro, I wouldn't put
>it past him to try to get this done.
>
>This would give the expansion to other markets, but still crown a
>divisions.
>
>We'll just see when the official announcement comes to pass about
>Bristol, but given the track record of my bud's information, and who
>his boss is, I believe what he told me is true.
I've been out of touch with RASN for over a week and am flabbergasted
by this new twist. All I can say is what I said over the sell-out
(pardon the pun) of North Wilkesboro:
MONEY TALKS AND BULLSHIT WALKS!
Cheryl Woods
Larry Phillip Kelly
any thing else with other intentions in mind. I feel sorry for the
people in Wilkes Co. and I hope somehow they do not loose their two
races. That is a fun track to go watch races at. They could do a little
upgrading of some of the facilities. Texas does need a race, they had
oppuntunities before and did want to get into in back in the 70's and
80's because it was considered a redneck's sport. Now with all the big
money and corporate sponsors everybody wants a track and a race.
If we are not careful this sport will get like baseball and not be fun
anymore.
larry
Go 94,6 and 16.
Djbanyas
<Pine.SOL.3.91.960126...@godzilla3.acpub.duke.edu>, Larry
Phillip Kelly <l...@acpub.duke.edu> writes:
>It scares me when people with this much money start buying up tracks or
>any thing else with other intentions in mind.
Larry are you privy to the inner thoughts of Bruton Smith? The public
statements he's made have all said he's not going to eliminate the Bristol
dates. So what makes you think he's going to do so?
Daniel
Rusty!
--
Daniel (djba...@aol.com)
Also - sa...@sagus.com
Chicago Bulls - The only team I cheer for that actually WINS!!
Mark A. Breland
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960126...@godzilla3.acpub.duke.edu>, Larry Phillip Kelly <l...@acpub.duke.edu> writes:
>It scares me when people with this much money start buying up tracks or
>any thing else with other intentions in mind.
What are these "other intentions" that scare you? Bruton Smith isn't
buying up tracks to kill racing...he's buying them up to provide more
racing at more venues.
>I feel sorry for the
>people in Wilkes Co. and I hope somehow they do not loose their two
>races.
We all are saddened with the changes that the passage of time brings, but
it's too late for little N. Wilkesboro. Their WC dates are gone.
>That is a fun track to go watch races at. They could do a little
>upgrading of some of the facilities.
That's putting it mildly...
>Texas does need a race, they had
>oppuntunities before and did want to get into in back in the 70's and
>80's because it was considered a redneck's sport.
I'm assuming you meant "did *not* want to get into" racing several years
back because of its redneck connotations. Well, you're wrong. Absolutely.
For many reasons, but the major one concerned the lack of a suitable
location for the kind of track on which WC cars can run. Texas World
Speedway has a fantastic racing surface, but its location sucks. The
rationale back in the '70s was that it was ideally located equidistant
from the major citeis of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio such that
it could draw fans from all those markets. The problem was that the
Bryan-College Station area in which it was located lacked a major
airport or sufficient motel/hotel facilities. Highway access was
pretty disgusting as well.
So before you go so far as to lump the entire state of Texas into
one general category of opportunities and desire, you best think again...
>Now with all the big
>money and corporate sponsors everybody wants a track and a race.
Nope, we've wanted NASCAR back in Texas for a long time...and it has
*nothing* to do with corporate sponsors or money.
>If we are not careful this sport will get like baseball and not be fun
>anymore.
Now you're getting somewhere...the monopolistic grabs that Smith is
making is what is unnerving to me. I have no qualms over lots of
*different* track owners improving facilities or opening new ones in
different places (even if 'traditional' lose their dates). I do get
a mite squeamish about *one entity* controlling a large segment of
available race dates.
--
Mark A. Breland "Unless you want to finish last,
Racing, ranching, whatever... you got to kick a little!..."
Austin, Texas (Little Texas)
Voice/FAX: 512-389-3951 http://www.breland.com NB#51
Dennis Jones
explored some of the facts and rumors concerning Bruton and his intentions.
One of the more interesting rumors is that Bruton would like to establish
some type of primetime night racing series. Similar to Monday Night Football
and Baseball. He's got Humpy, who's a terrific promoter and has been in the
sport since he was in high school. They have been running the Legends cars
at Charlotte at night and the response has been respectable considering the
drivers are usually not to well known, by using WC drivers to generate
interest.
DE...@gnn.COM
RWNolt
I'm having problems connecting to Breland.com...is it my
server or the page?
GO #18!!
W. Nolt
Jeff Oswald
>What are these "other intentions" that scare you? Bruton Smith isn't
>buying up tracks to kill racing...he's buying them up to provide more
>racing at more venues.
I'm offended at your use of the term "racing" here. Perhaps it's just a
subjective thing, but as far as Bruton's cookie cutter plan is concerned,
you'd be better off calling it "McRacing"...
>Now you're getting somewhere...the monopolistic grabs that Smith is
>making is what is unnerving to me.
Whoa...don't stand up and say that at the stockholder's meeting...
>I have no qualms over lots of
>*different* track owners improving facilities or opening new ones in
>different places (even if 'traditional' lose their dates). I do get
>a mite squeamish about *one entity* controlling a large segment of
>available race dates.
I think "tradition" has its place (imagine a day that the NASCAR circuit does
NOT include Daytona). Two things worry me. First, I've lived within spitting
distance of Charlotte Motor Speedway long enough to know how Bruton conducts
business at the track and at his car dealerships. Call me a conspiracy nut,
but I simply don't believe that he's buying up speedways to continue business
as usual. Controlling 30% of the schedule gives him a lot of leverage to use
AGAINST NASCAR if he so chooses. I couldn't tell you what his master plan is,
but I will remain suspicious of his motives. Bruton's still looking for a
second Texas date, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that
he can make more money with one date at the 150,000 seat TMS as he can with
two at the 80,000 seat Bristol. And to top it all off, it's control of two WC
dates he can keep out of the grubby paws of Homestead, Penske/California, and
Las Vegas.
Second, the more short tracks that disappear from NASCAR, the less of a fan I
become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
"McSpeedways". Charlotte Motor Speedway historically has the least
competitive snoozers I can recall seeing on a consistent basis. Now there
will be 2 more just like it? CMS's only saving graces as far as I'm concerned
are that the 600 and 500 often produce a first time winner, and the Winston
Select is always a good show.
I predict that Bruton will most likely drop ONE Bristol Date in `97 or `98 to
secure a second for Texas...UNLESS...he can take over controlling interest in
Rockingham (I almost suspect a news conference before I finish typing this)..
If that happens, He buries Rockingham, Texas and Bristol keep both dates, and
sends Homestead, Las Vegas and Penske/California scrambling elsewhere to raid
the likes of Martinsville and Richmond (the only short track that APPEARS to
be safe for the time being, but then again, none of us saw the Bristol deal
coming...).
The bottom line for me is: short tracks good...McSpeedways bad...
E
--
It oughta be in the FAQ
lippy harry shaun
<< SNIP >>
>Second, the more short tracks that disappear from NASCAR, the less of a fan I
>become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
>"McSpeedways". Charlotte Motor Speedway historically has the least
>competitive snoozers I can recall seeing on a consistent basis. Now there
>will be 2 more just like it? CMS's only saving graces as far as I'm concerned
>are that the 600 and 500 often produce a first time winner, and the Winston
>Select is always a good show.
<< SNIP >>
>The bottom line for me is: short tracks good...McSpeedways bad...
Yeah, what he said.
Long live the short tracks!!!
Mark A. Breland
In article <4emq4r$h...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) writes:
>In article <DLy9M...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.comr says...
>
>>What are these "other intentions" that scare you? Bruton Smith isn't
>>buying up tracks to kill racing...he's buying them up to provide more
>>racing at more venues.
>
>I'm offended at your use of the term "racing" here. Perhaps it's just a
>subjective thing, but as far as Bruton's cookie cutter plan is concerned,
>you'd be better off calling it "McRacing"...
Racing is racing is racing. If I follow your logic, then you're saying
that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
still racing.
>Whoa...don't stand up and say that at the stockholder's meeting...
I'll say whatever I damn well please whenever I damn well feel like it.
>I think "tradition" has its place (imagine a day that the NASCAR circuit does
>NOT include Daytona). Two things worry me. First, I've lived within spitting
>distance of Charlotte Motor Speedway long enough to know how Bruton conducts
>business at the track and at his car dealerships. Call me a conspiracy nut,
Conspiracy nut...
[snip]
>Second, the more short tracks that disappear from NASCAR, the less of a fan I
>become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
>"McSpeedways".
Which is your perogative to have, and which is your decision to make
regarding staying or walking away. If you insist, I'll trot out all
the comments I've already made privately regarding this situation. it
won't bother me one bit. Basically, the powers that be could care less
how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
won't even care that you don't care that they don't care.
>I predict that Bruton will most likely drop ONE Bristol Date in `97 or `98 to
>secure a second for Texas...UNLESS...he can take over controlling interest in
>Rockingham (I almost suspect a news conference before I finish typing this)..
>If that happens, He buries Rockingham, Texas and Bristol keep both dates, and
>sends Homestead, Las Vegas and Penske/California scrambling elsewhere to raid
>the likes of Martinsville and Richmond (the only short track that APPEARS to
>be safe for the time being, but then again, none of us saw the Bristol deal
>coming...).
Read the article on TMS in this week's Winston Cup Scene...a track the size
of TMS requires a minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date. It's
highly doubtful to me that Bruton will take away a Bristol cash cow date.
Looks more like a given that he'll take one of the Rockingham dates, or
lacking that, he'll bank on Pocono losing out on at least one. As for the
other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date, the others
have Bill Jr. to deal with.
cn2904
<slash & burn>
>Racing is racing is racing. If I follow your logic, then you're saying
>that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
>then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
>still racing.
So what you are saying is: Racing = Racing, therefore F1 racing = NHRA
racing = Indy racing = NASCAR racing. Correct? Want to be how many F1
racing fans you'll find demanding that CBS carry a race live?
>>Whoa...don't stand up and say that at the stockholder's meeting...
>I'll say whatever I damn well please whenever I damn well feel like it.
Good! Nothing worse than a bunch of sissy stockholders being led
around by a bunch of overpaid BOD.
> Call me a conspiracy nut,
>Conspiracy nut...
The lone jackman?
<more slash & burn>
>Which is your perogative to have, and which is your decision to make
>regarding staying or walking away. If you insist, I'll trot out all
>the comments I've already made privately regarding this situation. it
>won't bother me one bit. Basically, the powers that be could care less
>how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
>insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
>up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
>won't even care that you don't care that they don't care.
You seem to overlook the fact that each flood starts with one
raindrop. Add a whole bunch together and you get wiped out. Individual
fan, no, whole lotta fans, yes.
>Read the article on TMS in this week's Winston Cup Scene...a track the size
>of TMS requires a minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date. It's
>highly doubtful to me that Bruton will take away a Bristol cash cow date.
>Looks more like a given that he'll take one of the Rockingham dates, or
>lacking that, he'll bank on Pocono losing out on at least one. As for the
>other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date, the others
>have Bill Jr. to deal with.
Rockingham. No night races, almost always a 50/50 chance of the spring
race being rained/sleeted/snowed out. October date usually has better
luck. I'd think the weather in TX might be more favorable the weekend
after Daytona.
>--
>Mark A. Breland "Unless you want to finish last,
>Racing, ranching, whatever... you got to kick a little!..."
>Austin, Texas (Little Texas)
>Voice/FAX: 512-389-3951 http://www.breland.com NB#51
R.A. Henderson cn2...@coastalnet.com
No racecar, no ranch, whatever broken.
Dale Evans
>I think "tradition" has its place (imagine a day that the NASCAR circuit does
>NOT include Daytona).
That will NEVER happen!
<snip>. And to top it all off, it's control of two WC
>dates he can keep out of the grubby paws of Homestead, Penske/California, and
>Las Vegas.
Homestead/Vegas & Calif. will NOT have to scramble over anything.
NASCAR will not give 2 dates to ANY new track.....not for awhile....especially if some of these
"current" WC tracks improve the conditions....along with the infrastructure of the communities
that they're in. Look fo BGN/Dash/and Supertruck dates instead....just like MIAMI/Homestaed!
>I predict that Bruton will most likely drop ONE Bristol Date in `97 or `98 to
>secure a second for Texas...UNLESS...he can take over controlling interest in
>Rockingham.
jEff...you're sitting too close to the TV...or you need your automobile's exhaust system
checked!! ;)
Bristol is SACRED ground........the hardest ticket to find...including IMS & DIS!
NASCAR will dump Indy BEFORE going anywhere near Bristol....especially with a missing short
date (N.Wilkes).
Wilkesboro ASKED for it.....you've been there....so no explination is needed here!
--
Dale Evans dale...@shadow.net
Kendall,Fl. http://www.shadow.net/~dalelama/
IAC # 23 & #37
Contest Director-33rd Sebring Aerobatic Chmps. / April 11-12-13, 1996
Mark A. Breland
In article <310F02...@redrose.net>, RWNolt <bri...@redrose.net> writes:
>Hello Mark...
> I'm having problems connecting to Breland.com...is it my
>server or the page?
Since the domain registration is so recent, not all servers may have yet
updated their domain maps. That may be your problem. Be patient and just
keep trying, or else give your ISP heck... ;)
Cheryl Woods
a fan I
>>become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
>>competitive snoozers I can recall seeing on a consistent basis. Now
there
>>will be 2 more just like it? CMS's only saving graces as far as I'm
concerned
>>are that the 600 and 500 often produce a first time winner, and the
Winston
>>Select is always a good show.
>
> << SNIP >>
>
>>The bottom line for me is: short tracks good...McSpeedways bad...
>
>Yeah, what he said.
>
>Long live the short tracks!!!
>
>Shaun
>
Finally something you and I can agree on wholeheartedly! I like
Charlotte because of the facilities and because it is in the hub of
racing, but I think every track should be unique, not a carbon copy of
another. That's one of the great things are the short tracks. No two
are the same or ever could be.
Cheryl
Jeff Oswald
You folks have been mighty patient. I know you've been waiting for
it...wondering if it would ever come...no...*knowing* it would come, but
wondering just when...knowing it was inevitable, and somewhat agape as each
day passed with it more and more conspicuous by its absence...
Well, your patience has paid off, and the day has come.
Ladies and gentlemen...for your entertainment pleasure...I give you...
********************************
BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
********************************
(round 1)
In article <DM27z...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.com. says...
>Racing is racing is racing. If I follow your logic, then you're saying
>that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
>then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
>still racing.
Lighten up...
A most simplistic analysis of a much more sophisticated concept...
I don't take offense at his approach. I only regret the least common
denominator formula that merely expands the sport rather than advancing it.
You are ecstatic that your home state got a NASCAR race. You are pleased as
you watch your investment in TRK stock grow...
And well you should be. As your friend, I share your joy and bask in its
glow.
But did you shout "hallelujah-thank-gawd-amighty!!! It's a carbon Copy of
Charlotte Motor Speedway!!!"???
Perhaps you did. I'll not speculate...
>>>Now you're getting somewhere...the monopolistic grabs that Smith is
>>>making is what is unnerving to me.
>>>
>>Whoa...don't stand up and say that at the stockholder's meeting...
>
>I'll say whatever I damn well please whenever I damn well feel like it.
You're absolutely right. I was way off base to tell you how to tend to your
business. So, I say go ahead...stand up and say that at the stockholder's
meeting...I'd be curious as to the chairman's response...
Really, I would...
>Which is your perogative to have, and which is your decision to make
>regarding staying or walking away. If you insist, I'll trot out all
>the comments I've already made privately regarding this situation. it
>won't bother me one bit.
Is that a threat or a promise? ya big scrappy Texan, you...
>Basically, the powers that be could care less
>how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
>insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
>up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
>won't even care that you don't care that they don't care.
Well, I don't care that they don't care that I don't care that they don't
care times infinity...
No sneering, griping and groaning here. Allow me to trot out one of my
comments made privately regarding this situation. It won't bother me one bit.
At some point, as the VARIETY of short tracks and intermediates start to fall
prey to the McSpeedways, I will simply become disinterested, and rediscover
the grandeur of the great outdoors on a lazy Sunday, the singing of birds,
the thick sweet scent of honeysuckle on the vine, the laughter of children
in the staccato cadence of a lawn sprinkler, the pealing of the ol' church's
carrilon, the smell of freshly cut grass...and continue taking in the dust
and thunder of Saturday night dirt track racing (They sell you the whole
seat, but you'll only need the edge...). And perhaps as I sip my
julep,reclined in my weather resitant. space aged alloy patio lounge chair,
I'll have chance to say "Son...lemme tell ya `bout what we used to call
NASCAR...and guys with names like Junior an' Ironhead, an' the Silver Fox,
and Swervin' Irvan, an' Awesome Bill an' Chocolate..." I'll be happy, the
powers that be will be happy, and we will most likely all be blissfully
ambivalent of the thoughts, emotions and desires of one another.
>Read the article on TMS in this week's Winston Cup Scene...a track the size
>of TMS requires a minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date. It's
>highly doubtful to me that Bruton will take away a Bristol cash cow date.
Why wouldn't he? If that proves to be the only (or most expeditious) way to
get his second TMS date he doubles his money by killing one Bristol date.
It's fairly simple math. Need a pencil?
>Looks more like a given that he'll take one of the Rockingham dates,
He has to get controlling interest first...not a given, however, if he does,
as I stated before, Bristol keeps its 2, TMS gets its 2nd, and Rockingham
becomes NC's largest outdoor flea market.
>lacking that, he'll bank on Pocono losing out on at least one.
Ain't speculation grand? We can both be right...
>As for the other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date,
I suppose you think Raja's gonna be content with having *a* date? Especially
considering your statement, and I quote: "a track the size of TMS requires a
minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date."
>the others have Bill Jr. to deal with.
And it's quite evident that Bill Jr.'s ready to deal...
Ain't it?
E
--
It's gonna be another great season...I can tell...
Brian France
cw_...@ix.netcom.com(Cheryl Woods ) writes:
> In <4epj96$1...@ralph.vnet.net> eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) writes:
> >
> <snip>
> >********************************
> >BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
> >********************************
> >
> >(round 1)
> >
> <MAJOR snip>
>
> Oh no, they're at it again. . . . .When do the women have to come in
> and tend their wounds????????
>
> Now we're having some fun. . .
>
> Cheryl
NO Cheryl, that's what they REALLY want. Y'all have seen the WWF or
such, this is what they're doing. Dream up this stuff, and then "play"
it out.
Brian 'Do I really need a :-) ' France
cn2904
<weedwacker>
>No, I shouted no such thing because TMS is not a carbon copy of CMS. TMS
>will be a quad-oval, but with dual grade banking (an 8 degree apron for
>IndyCar-style racing and an upper 24 degree banking for stock cars) not to
>be found anywhere else.
What inquiring minds want to know (having never seen it) is, how ya'
gonna' keep the indy cars off of the banks? How can you have "dual"
banking? Seriously, the indy guys are going to race on the apron, the
stockers on the 'real' track?
This isn't going to look like the go-carts on Sat. Nite. Thunder now
is it? They race down on the apron and stay off of the banks where
the bike racers run. Will they have hay bales along the upper portion
of the velodrome, er,ah, I mean upper part of the track?
>--
>Mark A. Breland "Unless you want to finish last,
>Racing, ranching, whatever... you got to kick a little!..."
>Austin, Texas (Little Texas)
>Voice/FAX: 512-389-3951 http://www.breland.com NB#51
R. A. Henderson
Cheryl Woods
>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>********************************
>
>(round 1)
>
Mark A. Breland
In article <4ep50o$s...@treasure.coastalnet.com>, cn2...@coastalnet.com (cn2904) writes:
>ma...@breland.com (Mark A. Breland) wrote:
>
>>that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
>>then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
>>still racing.
>
>racing = Indy racing = NASCAR racing. Correct? Want to be how many F1
>racing fans you'll find demanding that CBS carry a race live?
Don't be ridiculous. Neither Jeff nor I was talking about anything
other than NASCAR WC racing at tracks of the same configuration of CMS.
Or are you just bored and out for a troll?
>>I'll say whatever I damn well please whenever I damn well feel like it.
>
>Good! Nothing worse than a bunch of sissy stockholders being led
>around by a bunch of overpaid BOD.
If you have a problem with corporate America, fine. Don't drag my
independence into it.
>>Conspiracy nut...
>
>The lone jackman?
You must be bored...
>You seem to overlook the fact that each flood starts with one
>raindrop. Add a whole bunch together and you get wiped out. Individual
>fan, no, whole lotta fans, yes.
And you definitely overlook the fact that there are more general
entertatinment folks out there to fill seats than there are traditional
fans who get upset enough to walk out. The Bruton Smith's of NASCAR
are after the general entertainment dollar...not the bucks out of the rabid,
historical fan's wallet. It's a NASCAR vs. NFL vs. MLB vs. NBA vs.
Disney vs. USPGA vs. MGM vs... Get it now?
>Rockingham. No night races, almost always a 50/50 chance of the spring
>race being rained/sleeted/snowed out. October date usually has better
>luck. I'd think the weather in TX might be more favorable the weekend
>after Daytona.
Not if the current ice storm continues... :(
Mark A. Breland
In article <4er177$6...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, h-l...@eehpx25.cen.uiuc.edu (lippy harry shaun) writes:
>eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) writes:
>
>
>NEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!! I love a good ol' Texas rodeo :):):):):)
"Nee-haw"????? Is that what you say when it's -30 degrees?...
lippy harry shaun
<< 122 lines deleted >>
NEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!! I love a good ol' Texas rodeo :):):):):)
Shaun
Mark A. Breland
In article <4epj96$1...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) writes:
>
>You folks have been mighty patient. I know you've been waiting for
>it...wondering if it would ever come...no...*knowing* it would come, but
>wondering just when...knowing it was inevitable, and somewhat agape as each
>day passed with it more and more conspicuous by its absence...
>
>Well, your patience has paid off, and the day has come.
>
>Ladies and gentlemen...for your entertainment pleasure...I give you...
>
>********************************
>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>********************************
Mere wishful thinking...
>>Racing is racing is racing. If I follow your logic, then you're saying
>>that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
>>then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
>>still racing.
>
>Lighten up...
>
>A most simplistic analysis of a much more sophisticated concept...
>
>I don't take offense at his approach. I only regret the least common
>denominator formula that merely expands the sport rather than advancing it.
Invert and go mobius at the first sign of trouble, eh? You said you
took offense at the use of the term racing to describe events at SMI
tracks. If you would be more precise in expressing your troubles, I
wouldn't have to explain to you how imprecise you were in the first
place.
>You are ecstatic that your home state got a NASCAR race. You are pleased as
>you watch your investment in TRK stock grow...
First, I own no stock in Speedway Motorsports Inc. (SMI), whose stock
symbol is the TRK to which you refer. Your assumption is faulty, as
are all your other derivative insinuations thereto.
Yes, I am ecstatic that Texas will soon receive at least *one* date. As
opposed to the 14 or so currently enjoyed within the NC-VA-SC-TN region...
>And well you should be. As your friend, I share your joy and bask in its
>glow.
That's mighty charitable of ya...
>But did you shout "hallelujah-thank-gawd-amighty!!! It's a carbon Copy of
>Charlotte Motor Speedway!!!"???
>
>Perhaps you did. I'll not speculate...
No, I shouted no such thing because TMS is not a carbon copy of CMS. TMS
will be a quad-oval, but with dual grade banking (an 8 degree apron for
IndyCar-style racing and an upper 24 degree banking for stock cars) not to
be found anywhere else.
>You're absolutely right. I was way off base to tell you how to tend to your
>business. So, I say go ahead...stand up and say that at the stockholder's
>meeting...I'd be curious as to the chairman's response...
See above.
>Really, I would...
Can't you hear?
>Is that a threat or a promise? ya big scrappy Texan, you...
Yer just jealous...
>Well, I don't care that they don't care that I don't care that they don't
>care times infinity...
They started not caring before the Big Bang...
>I'll be happy, the
>powers that be will be happy, and we will most likely all be blissfully
>ambivalent of the thoughts, emotions and desires of one another.
So why aren't you running for Secretary of State?...
>Why wouldn't he? If that proves to be the only (or most expeditious) way to
>get his second TMS date he doubles his money by killing one Bristol date.
>It's fairly simple math. Need a pencil?
Simple math for simple minds...and you still need a pencil? You can
qualify anything with that might big "If" you start your whole argument
with... He could keep building seat to the tops of the mountains
around Bristol and still not have enough. It's a proven cash cow.
I hear you can still get into Marketing 101 at UNC this quarter...
>He has to get controlling interest first...not a given, however, if he does,
>as I stated before, Bristol keeps its 2, TMS gets its 2nd, and Rockingham
>becomes NC's largest outdoor flea market.
Duh.
>Ain't speculation grand? We can both be right...
So long as you acknowledge your conjecture.
>>As for the other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date,
>
>I suppose you think Raja's gonna be content with having *a* date? Especially
>considering your statement, and I quote: "a track the size of TMS requires a
>minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date."
Penske's California plans are nowhere near as grand at this moment as
Smith's are. Stop and ponder that for awhile...
>And it's quite evident that Bill Jr.'s ready to deal...
>
>Ain't it?
Doesn't look that way to me. Looks more like he's ducking and hiding in
deference to letting the track owners force the issue.
Rich Bemben
: I think "tradition" has its place (imagine a day that the NASCAR circuit does
: distance of Charlotte Motor Speedway long enough to know how Bruton conducts
: but I simply don't believe that he's buying up speedways to continue business
: as usual. Controlling 30% of the schedule gives him a lot of leverage to use
: AGAINST NASCAR if he so chooses. I couldn't tell you what his master plan is,
: but I will remain suspicious of his motives. Bruton's still looking for a
: second Texas date, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that
: he can make more money with one date at the 150,000 seat TMS as he can with
: dates he can keep out of the grubby paws of Homestead, Penske/California, and
: Las Vegas.
...I tend to side with you where Bruton Smith is concerned. Something smells
pretty cheesey in Charlotte. The rumour of NASCAR turning Bahre down for a
2nd date makes me wonder if Smith hasn't done a little arm twisting with Bill
France so that he might be able to fenagle Bahre out of the other half of NW.
(But then again - the rumour that the date might be offered to Holmstead just
may be legit 8^\...but not any more palatable.)
: Second, the more short tracks that disappear from NASCAR, the less of a fan I
: become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
: "McSpeedways". Charlotte Motor Speedway historically has the least
: competitive snoozers I can recall seeing on a consistent basis. Now there
: will be 2 more just like it? CMS's only saving graces as far as I'm concerned
: are that the 600 and 500 often produce a first time winner, and the Winston
: Select is always a good show.
"McSpeedways"...it DOES have sort of a sleezy twang to it 8^\ ! Personally I
think we've just seen the first salvo of the WC land rush and it appears that
the people behind it are the ones with the REALLY big money that can go in and
buy up the smaller fish. I'm really suprised that we haven't seen a little bit
of a power play on Penske's part as yet tho'. I consider him to be even colder
and more calculating than Bruton.
: I predict that Bruton will most likely drop ONE Bristol Date in `97 or `98 to
: secure a second for Texas...UNLESS...he can take over controlling interest in
: Rockingham (I almost suspect a news conference before I finish typing this)..
: If that happens, He buries Rockingham, Texas and Bristol keep both dates, and
: sends Homestead, Las Vegas and Penske/California scrambling elsewhere to raid
: the likes of Martinsville and Richmond (the only short track that APPEARS to
: be safe for the time being, but then again, none of us saw the Bristol deal
: coming...).
Agreed. I get the impression right now that the short tracks are looked at in
the same light as the road courses...they can stay but they'll have to make do
with but one date since, with the exception of Bristol, they can't seat the
number of fans needed to cover expences and purses. They could be upgraded but
then why would the Brutons and the Penske's want to sink money into a facility
that's only going to be really "used" but once a year. Unless you could field
a date that has both Super Trucks and BGN as the drawing card I think that a
"BIG" short track would look half empty at best which would not look good in the
TV camera's eyes.
Same holds for a venue like Pocono where, if its to be kept, a very large amount
of $$$$$ will have to be sunk into it to bring it up to date and be able to
truely handle the large volume of cars and people that happen on race day. It
wouldn't suprise me to see somebody like Bruton go in and turn it into a real
estate development or a shopping mall...he'd probably get a far better return
on his investment...and it'd pull the cork on one venue in the N.E. that's been
hotly debated for some time now and also free up two dates.
Power politics and business rolls down pit road in Winston Cup Racing. If you
ain't in it yet you're probably already too late. It probably does sound like
a story for alt.conspiracy except for the fact that Winston Cup Racing is on
a financial roll now and getting hotter every day. Where there's the
probability for big profits to be made the greedy tend to poke their sticky
finger into the pie (and eventually ruin a good thing in the process 8^().
: The bottom line for me is: short tracks good...McSpeedways bad...
Again, I firmly agree with you Eldo! But like Mark Breland sez - the sharks
really could give two shits...
Rich
--
Rich Bemben rbe...@mbunix.mitre.org
DoD #0044 (617) 271-7136
The street giveth and the street taketh away - Catmother
*********************************************************************
Jeff Oswald
>
>eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) wrote:
>
>>I think "tradition" has its place (imagine a day that the NASCAR circuit
>>does NOT include Daytona).
>
So, apparently, tradition does have its place...
><snip>. And to top it all off, it's control of two WC
>>dates he can keep out of the grubby paws of Homestead, Penske/California,
>>and Las Vegas.
>
>Homestead/Vegas & Calif. will NOT have to scramble over anything.
>NASCAR will not give 2 dates to ANY new track.....not for
>>awhile....
NASCAR won't have to do anything. Bruton set the precedent for "private
sector" transfers and partnerships. You might see any combination of
partnerships to attempt buyouts of the more vulnerable tracks to bury them
and create open dates for their tracks. NASCAR can just sit back, stay out of
the fight and let the owners fight it out. NASCAR can't race at a track where
the owner won't let them...so, NASCAR divvy's up the dates between the
partners. I don't see NASCAR giving Homestead and Vegas more than one date,
but Bruton and Raja ain't just gonna roll over and be happy with one each.
Bet on that.
especially if some of these
>>"current" WC tracks improve the conditions....along with the infrastructure
>of the communities
>that they're in. Look fo BGN/Dash/and Supertruck dates instead....just like
>MIAMI/Homestaed!
I am insignificantly comforted by this thought.
>jEff...you're sitting too close to the TV...or you need your automobile's
>exhaust system checked!! ;)
Dale, you need to use the oxegen mask when you're up there flying around in
the thin air of high altitude. One tends to get disoriented, confused and
sluggish when one does not...
>Bristol is SACRED ground........
The Garden of Eden was sacred ground. God still felt the need to inhabit it
with a serpent. And now, you can't even find it on a map...
>the hardest ticket to find...
Because of a limited number of seats. It's about money, it ain't about
racing. 150,000 tickets per event vs. 80,000 tickets per event. Do the
math...
>NASCAR will dump Indy BEFORE going anywhere near Bristol....
That'd be fine by me, but NASCAR doesn't have the ultimate authority in the
Bristol deal. NASCAR cannot sanction a race there if Bruton decides he
doesn't want them there. Is that so hard to understand?
>especially with a missing short date (N.Wilkes).
Uhhh...here's a little secret I'll let you in on: N. Wilkeboro is done after
April. Finished. Gone. Period. It's 2 missing dates, and they're already
spoken for.
>Wilkesboro ASKED for it.....you've been there....so no explination is needed
here!
No, they did not ASK for it. They allowed it to happen through the inability
to compete in the financial end of the sport. I've been there. It is
certainly "rustic"...a fixer-upper...but it was the place where I saw more
incredible racing action in each lap than I ever did at certain
1.5 mile tri-ovals.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that certain tracks are sacred and will not
be tampered with. Daytona is safe, not becuse of its prestige and mystique,
but because of its marketability and power wielded in the front office. The
ones with the megabucks are going to change the schedule through forced
buyouts and collusion. The races will go where the money is. Not where the
action is.
That is where the sport is headed. Speaking only for myself, I think that is
sad.
Jeff Oswald
>>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>>********************************
>>
>>(round 1)
>>
>
>Oh no, they're at it again. . . . .When do the women have to come in
>and tend their wounds????????
just when DID the women ever come to tend our wounds?
lippy harry shaun
<< ECONOMICS 101 LESSON SNIPPED >>
>That is where the sport is headed. Speaking only for myself, I think that is
>sad.
No, you're speaking for me as well, jEff.
Djbanyas
>Hello Mark...
> I'm having problems connecting to Breland.com...is it my
>server or the page?
Since it bears the time-honored stamp Breland, Inc., no doubt any
problems are due to sunspots.
Djbanyas
>Ladies and gentlemen...for your entertainment pleasure...I give you...
>********************************
>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>********************************
>(round 1)
*DING!*
>At some point, as the VARIETY of short tracks and intermediates start to
fall
>prey to the McSpeedways, I will simply become disinterested, and
rediscover
>the grandeur of the great outdoors on a lazy Sunday, the singing of
birds,
>the thick sweet scent of honeysuckle on the vine, the laughter of
children
>in the staccato cadence of a lawn sprinkler, the pealing of the ol'
church's
>carrilon, the smell of freshly cut grass...and continue taking in the
dust
>and thunder of Saturday night dirt track racing (They sell you the whole
>seat, but you'll only need the edge...). And perhaps as I sip my
>julep,reclined in my weather resitant. space aged alloy patio lounge
chair,
>I'll have chance to say "Son...lemme tell ya `bout what we used to call
>NASCAR...and guys with names like Junior an' Ironhead, an' the Silver
Fox,
>and Swervin' Irvan, an' Awesome Bill an' Chocolate..." I'll be happy, the
>powers that be will be happy, and we will most likely all be blissfully
>ambivalent of the thoughts, emotions and desires of one another.
Yeah - but who'll listen to ya, big guy? Mark's right - they don't need
you.
They don't need me. They don't need any individual fan. I daresay they
don't need r.a.s.n. (I do - but that's a different story :) Any fan who
wants
to follow Nascar will be able to because of TV - and they'll fill any
seats
they build. You tried to duck that one, but Mark got the jab in.
>>Read the article on TMS in this week's Winston Cup Scene...a track the
size
>>of TMS requires a minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date.
It's
>>highly doubtful to me that Bruton will take away a Bristol cash cow
date.
>>As for the other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date,
>
>I suppose you think Raja's gonna be content with having *a* date?
Especially
>considering your statement, and I quote: "a track the size of TMS
requires a
>minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date."
Ooooo! Oswaldorado slips the lead and counters with a strong upper-cut
that Breland felt all the way to his toes!
>>the others have Bill Jr. to deal with.
>
>And it's quite evident that Bill Jr.'s ready to deal...
>Ain't it?
Ooooo! Another strong shot lands at the bell!
>It's gonna be another great season...I can tell...
Well, duh.
Daniel
Rusty!
My scorecard for Round 1 - 10-9 Oswald.
JerryH
>
>
>In article <4emq4r$h...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald)
writes:
>>In article <DLy9M...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.comr says...
>>
>>>What are these "other intentions" that scare you? Bruton Smith isn't
>>>buying up tracks to kill racing...he's buying them up to provide more
>>>racing at more venues.
>>
>>I'm offended at your use of the term "racing" here. Perhaps it's just a
>>subjective thing, but as far as Bruton's cookie cutter plan is concerned,
>>you'd be better off calling it "McRacing"...
>
>that what we see during the Winston and the Coke 600 at CMS isn't racing
>then. Take offense at Smith's *approach* all you like, but the racing is
>still racing.
>
>
>I'll say whatever I damn well please whenever I damn well feel like it.
>
does
spitting
>>distance of Charlotte Motor Speedway long enough to know how Bruton
conducts
>>business at the track and at his car dealerships. Call me a conspiracy nut,
>
>
>[snip]
>
>>Second, the more short tracks that disappear from NASCAR, the less of a fan
I
>>become, especially when replaced with one of Bruton's or Roger's
>>"McSpeedways".
>
>regarding staying or walking away. If you insist, I'll trot out all
>the comments I've already made privately regarding this situation. it
>how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
>insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
>up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
>
>>I predict that Bruton will most likely drop ONE Bristol Date in `97 or `98
to
>>secure a second for Texas...UNLESS...he can take over controlling interest
in
>>Rockingham (I almost suspect a news conference before I finish typing
this)..
>>If that happens, He buries Rockingham, Texas and Bristol keep both dates,
and
>>sends Homestead, Las Vegas and Penske/California scrambling elsewhere to
raid
>>the likes of Martinsville and Richmond (the only short track that APPEARS
to
>>be safe for the time being, but then again, none of us saw the Bristol deal
>>coming...).
>
>of TMS requires a minimum of two WC dates and one IndyCar-like date. It's
>highly doubtful to me that Bruton will take away a Bristol cash cow date.
>lacking that, he'll bank on Pocono losing out on at least one. As for the
>other upcoming tracks, Penske/California already has a date, the others
>have Bill Jr. to deal with.
>
Remember that Penske is only guaranteed a date for California in '97. If
that's really sucessful, I'm betting on dropping of the Sears Point date and
a continued date for the new oval, wherever it is in California. Then the
California date guaranteed for one year is available for Miami, or Texas, or
Vegas, or ...
JerryH
Bill Pogue
: >how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
: >insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
: >up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
: >won't even care that you don't care that they don't care.
Please, please, if anyone wants to rip up their season tickets let me
know. I'll be more than willing to assist in taking those out of your
worries. :-)
bill
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go #3 #24; Crossing the finish line in 1st: Davey, Alan, Neil, Rob, Rodney!
Diane C. Genthner
In article <4eusas$s...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) says:
>
>In article <DM45...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.com says...
>
>>Mere wishful thinking...
>
>If the following quoted text ain't pissin', I don't know what is...
>
>You're so cute when you pretend to fail to recognize my sarcasm.
>>Your assumption is faulty, as are all your other derivative insinuations
>>thereto.
>
>What a coincidence, yours too...
>>>Is that a threat or a promise? ya big scrappy Texan, you...
>
>Aw, c'mon...don't take a pass with such a weak comeback...trot out the big
>guns like you were threatening to...
>
>Because I'm incapable of telling a lie. It's a prerequisite in NC politics.
>
>>I hear you can still get into Marketing 101 at UNC this quarter...
>
>Taught it...
>
>>Duh.
>
>Excuse me? Did you say "duh"? As in...like..."duh" in the classic context of
>being a sarcastic response to one who states the obvious? If that's the case,
>why did you reply with all this tripe when a simple "I agree" would have
>easily sufficed?
Well, folks, we have Punxatawny Phil to tell us when spring
will be here...we have Granpa's big toe to predict rain...and
there's no better barometer for predicting the start of the
Winston Cup season than Mark & jEff scrappin' like a couple of
caged wolves.
Diane
And *don't* ask me to lick yer wounds...
Jeff Oswald
>Mere wishful thinking...
If the following quoted text ain't pissin', I don't know what is...
>>A most simplistic analysis of a much more sophisticated concept...
>>
>>I don't take offense at his approach. I only regret the least common
>>denominator formula that merely expands the sport rather than advancing it.
>
>Invert and go mobius at the first sign of trouble, eh? You said you
>took offense at the use of the term racing to describe events at SMI
>tracks. If you would be more precise in expressing your troubles, I
>wouldn't have to explain to you how imprecise you were in the first
>place.
You're so cute when you pretend to fail to recognize my sarcasm.
>First, I own no stock in Speedway Motorsports Inc. (SMI), whose stock
>symbol is the TRK to which you refer.
When did you unload? I'm guessing when it hit an all time high of 33 1/2
about a week ago...gotta get those closing costs somewhere, eh?
I'll update my files...
>Your assumption is faulty, as are all your other derivative insinuations
>thereto.
What a coincidence, yours too...
>Yes, I am ecstatic that Texas will soon receive at least *one* date. As
>opposed to the 14 or so currently enjoyed within the NC-VA-SC-TN region...
When did the Southeast market come into this conversation? It has nothing to
do with the topic at hand.
>That's mighty charitable of ya...
Yeah, but is it also faulty and derivative?
>No, I shouted no such thing because TMS is not a carbon copy of CMS.
Pretty damn close though except for a few changes...
>TMS will be a quad-oval, but with dual grade banking (an 8 degree apron for
>IndyCar-style racing and an upper 24 degree banking for stock cars) not to
>be found anywhere else.
Or wanted...A definate compromise in dedication to quality for a a specific
purpose. McDonald's was once known for great burgers fast. Since the addition
of various marketing concoctions such as chicken McNuggets, McRibs, McPizza,
McLobster sandwiches (Ask some of the New Englanders, it's true...McLobster).
It's clear that the market noodling compromised the quality of the the thing
they were good at. Burgers.
>>Is that a threat or a promise? ya big scrappy Texan, you...
>
>Yer just jealous...
Aw, c'mon...don't take a pass with such a weak comeback...trot out the big
guns like you were threatening to...
>>Well, I don't care that they don't care that I don't care that they don't
>>care times infinity...
>
>They started not caring before the Big Bang...
Like I care...
>>I'll be happy, the
>>powers that be will be happy, and we will most likely all be blissfully
>>ambivalent of the thoughts, emotions and desires of one another.
>
>So why aren't you running for Secretary of State?...
Because I'm incapable of telling a lie. It's a prerequisite in NC politics.
>>Why wouldn't he? If that proves to be the only (or most expeditious) way to
>>get his second TMS date he doubles his money by killing one Bristol date.
>>It's fairly simple math. Need a pencil?
>
>Simple math for simple minds...and you still need a pencil?
I have one. Shall I draw you a flow chart? It makes complex concepts much
easier to understand. Perhaps even for you.
>You can qualify anything with that might big "If" you start your whole
>argument with...
It's an educated guess and quite feasible. Bruton will take the path of least
resistance to get a second date. To date, the 2 possible scenarios I've put
forth are the easiest ways for him to do it. I don't mind qualifying it
with an "if". Future events could influence the scenarios. I'm not so stupid
as to think I know exactly what's going to happen, but I'll be happy to enter
a significant wager as to one of my speculative scenarios happening.
You game?
>He could keep building seat to the tops of the mountains
>around Bristol and still not have enough. It's a proven cash cow.
Why bother when he could just kill a date and double his money on the spot?
Or gain control of another vulnerable track and kill it. Then he can keep
Bristol's 2.
>I hear you can still get into Marketing 101 at UNC this quarter...
Taught it...
Was offered the job at U of Texas, everybody failed the entrance exam...
One student's head exploded...
>>He has to get controlling interest first...not a given, however, if he
>>does, as I stated before, Bristol keeps its 2, TMS gets its 2nd, and
>>Rockingham becomes NC's largest outdoor flea market.
>
>Duh.
Excuse me? Did you say "duh"? As in...like..."duh" in the classic context of
being a sarcastic response to one who states the obvious? If that's the case,
why did you reply with all this tripe when a simple "I agree" would have
easily sufficed?
>>Ain't speculation grand? We can both be right...
>
>So long as you acknowledge your conjecture.
You make it out as if I were issuing a divine decree.
>Penske's California plans are nowhere near as grand at this moment as
>Smith's are. Stop and ponder that for awhile...
Is that a decree? Or speculation?
Yep. Raja's sitting there thinking "gee, I'm glad I've got one date. Sure
hope I don't get another one..." How "grand" his plans are does not preclude
him from taking the first opportunity available to secure a second date. If
he wants a second date, he'll do what it takes to get it.
And he wants one.
>>And it's quite evident that Bill Jr.'s ready to deal...
>>
>>Ain't it?
>
>Doesn't look that way to me. Looks more like he's ducking and hiding in
>deference to letting the track owners force the issue.
That's the best way to deal. If everybody's solving your problems for you,
why jump into the fight? Bill Jr. wants to change the market to take
advantage of larger ones, but he doesn't have to actively participate,
because apparently, the market is changing itself to his favor.
I used to teach that in marketing 101. They never quite understood it in
Texas.
Mark D. Jilson
In article <4es7od$f...@ralph.vnet.net>,
eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald) writes...
>That'd be fine by me, but NASCAR doesn't have the ultimate authority in the
^----------------------------------------^
>Bristol deal. NASCAR cannot sanction a race there if Bruton decides he
>doesn't want them there. Is that so hard to understand?
Oh but they do!!! If Bill France doesn't like what Bruton is doing he just
leaves the old Bristol dates open and cuts the season short by 1 or 2 races
and tells Bruton to go pound sand. Bill doesn't need the $$$ from any of
Bruton's races but Bruton certainly does NEED the $$$ from NASCAR
sanctioned races. Bill has the resources to play hardball, overhand
fastballs aimed right at your head, but Bruton can only play softball.
Bruton will go bankrupt before Bill even has to pull the belt in a notch.
Mark D. Jilson - Digital Customer Support Center
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Born & Raised in Chemung, NY and moving back as soon as the ^#$% house sells.
Mark D. Jilson
In article <4er1rb$h...@linus.mitre.org>,
rbe...@mbunix.mitre.org (Rich Bemben) writes...
>I'm really suprised that we haven't seen a little bit
>of a power play on Penske's part as yet tho'. I consider him to be even colder
>and more calculating than Bruton.
>
Ah but we have seen his first steps. He's taking his speedways public so
he can generate the $$$$ needed to compete with Bruton et al. 3 years from
now there may be a big bidding war for Pocono, Martinsville, etc. just so
new tracks can get a first or second date.
Mark D. Jilson - Digital Customer Support Center
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Born & Raised in Chemung, NY and moving back as soon as the ^&%# house sells.
Cheryl Woods
>
>In article <4eqbdc$1...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, cw_...@ix.netcom.cot
says...
>>
>>In <4epj96$1...@ralph.vnet.net> eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald)
writes:
>>>
>><snip>
>>>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>>>********************************
>>>
>>>(round 1)
>>>
>>
>>Oh no, they're at it again. . . . .When do the women have to come in
>>and tend their wounds????????
>
>just when DID the women ever come to tend our wounds?
>
>E
Only in our dreams. . .
Cheryl
Jeff Oswald
>
>In article <4epj96$1...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald)
>writes:
>
>>Ladies and gentlemen...for your entertainment pleasure...I give you...
>>********************************
>>BRELAND/OSWALD PISSIN' MATCH `96
>>********************************
>>(round 1)
>
>Yeah - but who'll listen to ya, big guy?
I have no desire to be "heard". I'm simply stating how the present and
possible near-future changes in the sport will affect my enjoyment of the
series.
Are we clear on that?
Yet?
>Mark's right - they don't need you.
Nor I them...
>My scorecard for Round 1 - 10-9 Oswald.
My cornerman may be a little bit biased, but he had it scored more like
12-2...
Mark A. Breland
In article <4f2ip1$n...@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, jil...@bss.enet.dec.com (Mark D. Jilson) writes:
>
>Oh but they do!!! If Bill France doesn't like what Bruton is doing he just
>leaves the old Bristol dates open and cuts the season short by 1 or 2 races
>and tells Bruton to go pound sand. Bill doesn't need the $$$ from any of
>Bruton's races but Bruton certainly does NEED the $$$ from NASCAR
>sanctioned races. Bill has the resources to play hardball, overhand
>fastballs aimed right at your head, but Bruton can only play softball.
>Bruton will go bankrupt before Bill even has to pull the belt in a notch.
So true, so true...one has only to read the original SMI prospectus to
realize how cyclical a track's financial well-being is. Cyclical as in
for each major WC weekend...
Weather postponement? Ouch!...
Outright cancellation? Let's schedule some serious creditor negotiations...
Cancellation of all dates? Lessee, those Chapter 11 forms are around here
somewheres...
Jeff Oswald
>How can one unload when one never owned? Curious how you like to
>imagine certain circumstances to suit your own purposes...
Ok, ok already, thoughtcha did...my bad...
>Ahh, the old "I'm rubber and you're glue" gambit.
I find that the opposition becomes most disoriented when you change your tack
and start employing THEIR tactics...
>>When did the Southeast market come into this conversation? It has nothing
>>to do with the topic at hand.
>
>I brought it...because of certain whinings that existing tracks would
>be supplanted...14 of said existing tracks being in the NC-VA-SC-TN
>region...wherein lies *all* of the particularly lamented short tracks.
The geography of the series is merely coincidental to the subject. Do not
attempt to imply that there is an ounce of provincialism in my lament. Hell,
if they want to clear dates, I say take one from Charlotte, both Atlantas and
lose the July Daytona race.
>>>No, I shouted no such thing because TMS is not a carbon copy of CMS.
>>
>>Pretty damn close though except for a few changes...
>
>When "a few changes" includes a dual-grade racing surface, that's pretty
>significant. To claim otherwise would be...uh...not so smart.
OK, that's one...cite a couple more, and I'm still right. So the apron is
wider...hardly significant...
>Stop and consider just how foolish this sounds...I mean, really...you're
>trying to compare fast food with high performance race tracks. How inane.
Nice try, but there is nothing inane about it. The metaphor stands as valid,
and more importantly, insightful and visionary. TMS is a compromise, much as
every "multi-use" municiple stadium in the country. Have you ever been
distracted by gridiron yard markers on a Major League baseball field, or
cringed as an NFL player ran across the dirt of a baseball diamond, or
tripped on the seam where they cover the pitcher's mound with astroturf? Have
you ever watched a basketball game in the cavernous Superdome? Unnerving,
isn't it? The correlation to TMS may be a little more esoteric, but it is
there. Minimal perhaps for the "general entertainment" dollar spender, but
most likely will be frowned upon by the competitors. Winston Cuppers will
milk the apron/indy track for all they can get, and will most likely produce
tragic results, and the indy guys will slip onto the banking after going in
hot, most likely producing tragic results.
A compromise of quality, pure and simple.
>I have no "big guns", I have an analysis of the situation:
Now you want to discuss the topic?
>The approach of one Bruton Smith is expediency to reduce costs.
Result: Compromise of quality.
>The costs for building new facilities are so outrageous that any manner
>of re-use to reduce the expense is the way to go. What you're seeing is
>the re-use of architectural drawings, blueprints, and plans. Why spend
>the bucks for all that engineering when you already have the documents in
>hand?
Oh...I don't know...maybe to offer something unique to the consumer instead
of force feeding them more of the same?
>I'm not necessarily advocating the approach, just 'splaining it... ;)
Thanks for making that clear to the rest of our tiny little minds...
>MIS and TWS and CaliforniaMS all use the same D-oval plans as well. The
>money required for such full engineering from scratch is huge. Bruton
>and Penske are merely being businessmen and capitalizing on what they've
>found to be proven formulas for their respective tracks.
Hence, my disdain...a formulaic approach.
>Bruton, however,
>is adding a valuable twist with his dual-grade TMS surface to make the
>track multi-series capable. Those extra dates make that engineering
>investment worthwhile.
Sorry, but a completely new design is a mere drop in the bucket compared to
future revenues. The plan shortchanges race fans...and general entertainment
dollar fans. They just won't know it.
>They could care less about ambience and tradition.
And that's sad.
>I doubt Smith will consign Bristol to a similar fate as NW...it's too
>much of a cash cow now as it is.
If the Bruton Buy-a-thon stopped where it is now, he'd drop one Bristol date
in a heartbeat if it guaranteed him a second at TWS. Very simple economics.
As I've said before...and before that...
A cash cow can certainly be sacrificed if it creates a cash herd...
>Bristol is *proven*...they *know* it will sell out. They don't yet
>know that about the track of TMS. Until they can see how much revenue
>TMS can *actually generate*, they will not mess with the proven revenue
>generator which is Bristol. Bidness...pure and simple.
It ain't much of a stretch to say that TMS will sell out 2 events. Twice as
many seats and lower overhead will make for higher purses which will make
NASCAR and the teams happy. Bruton makes more money. So who gives two shits
whether Bristol is a guaranteed sellout...
The bottom line is that *at this time* Bristol is Bruton's trump card. If
that's the only way he gets a second date at TMS, he'll kill a date in a
heartbeat. If he nabs the rock or Pocono, he gets it through them, and gets a
bonus by not having to drop a Bristol date. It is simply foolish to say he
would NOT kill a Bristol date to get a second at TMS if that's the only way
he could get it.
>Anybody think they can *realistically* organize a mass boycott or protest
>over the direction things are going? Realistically now?
Who's trying?
>We can probably effect change over some tactical issues (seating,
>parking, amenities, concessions), but not over strategic ones that
>concern a buttload of cashola over the next several decades. Shoot
>me, flame me, call me a cynical pessimist if you must, but that's
>the pragmatics we're up against...I'm only the messenger.
Did anybody say you were wrong? (even LAST time you posted this same
thought...)
>I wasn't referring to the act of lying, I was referring to the act of
>grandstanding and playing to the emotion of the masses.
You have an extremely warped sense of my intentions here. All I've done so
far is state how the current changes in the sport are effecting my enjoyment
of it. Is that so hard to understand?
>But if you're trying to hold me out as someone who *likes* the pragmatics
>that I described above, then you are lying.
I have not done so and resent the implication.
>I made a mistake by responding to your first sling of mud with another.
>Mea culpa.
Yes, indeed. You-a culpa.
I believe I was just talking issues until someone attempted to falsely imply
that it was nothing more than provincial "whining, wailing, and gnashing of
teeth" ad nauseum...
>The remainder of your continued mud slinging don't merit a reply. Lose the
>insults and we can have a debate, otherwise you're going nowhere fast.
The remainder of your continued mud slinging don't merit a reply. Lose the
insults and we can have a debate, otherwise you're going nowhere fast.
Djbanyas
writes:
>I have no desire to be "heard". I'm simply stating how the present and
>possible near-future changes in the sport will affect my enjoyment of the
>series.
Enjoyment? Are you sure you don't mean "employment" ? :)
>>My scorecard for Round 1 - 10-9 Oswald.
>
>My cornerman may be a little bit biased, but he had it scored more like
>12-2...
10 point must system, you schmuck.
Daniel
Rusty!
Jeff Oswald
>
>In article <4f3c1g$m...@ralph.vnet.net>, eldo...@vnet.net (Jeff Oswald)
>writes:
>
>>I have no desire to be "heard". I'm simply stating how the present and
>>possible near-future changes in the sport will affect my enjoyment of the
>
>>series.
>
>Enjoyment? Are you sure you don't mean "employment" ? :)
I most certainly mean "enjoyment". The "employment" is rock solid, and will
probably become even moreso, at the expense of my enjoyment.
Kathy Ward
>In article <DMBC7...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.com says...
>
>>How can one unload when one never owned? Curious how you like to
>>imagine certain circumstances to suit your own purposes...
>
>Ok, ok already, thoughtcha did...my bad...
(out-of-the-line-of-fire snip)
Uh E, could you have been thinking about the Wards here? It was I who
bought the Speedway Stock. (It was also I who sold it right after Bruton
bought Bristol and right BEFORE the price went up. I'm such a NYSE
guru!)
--
KW
STEVE HATLEY RACING 1995 ACE SPEEDWAY
Chapel Hill, NC WRS LMSC ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
BE SMOOTH & SAFE RACING!! #11
Rich Bemben
: : In article <DM27z...@mcc.com>, ma...@breland.comČ says...
: : >how the individual fan (such as yourself) feel about it. Sneer and
: : >insult and gripe and groan and whine and wail and gnash your teeth...rip
: : >up your season tickets in disgust, and they won't even notice...they
: Please, please, if anyone wants to rip up their season tickets let me
: know. I'll be more than willing to assist in taking those out of your
: worries. :-)
...case in point!