Quarters vs competition cautions?
DAVe
Since NASCAR seem to be trying to emulate the NFL why don't they
consider quarters and a commercial zone half time?
I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
leading at halfway.
armpit
"DAVe" <small...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bae18e87-8955-4247...@y24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
When did they award points for leading at halfway? Maybe I'm getting too
old, but I don't recall Nascar ever awarding halfway points.
DAVe
> "DAVe" <smalleys...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I thought it was $10,000.00 and a point or two. Not positive on the
points, but for sure the money.
John McCoy
dd5960...@y24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
> Another ignorable suggestion for NASCAR.
>
> Since NASCAR seem to be trying to emulate the NFL why don't they
> consider quarters and a commercial zone half time?
They tried that in the Truck series for the first couple of
years, it was roundly disliked by the competitors, fans, track
owners, and pretty much everyone else involved.
> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
> leading at halfway.
I don't recall there ever being points, altho maybe there were in
some of the weird points schemes NASCAR used before 1972. There
have been several money awards (I think Unocal did one for a
while) for the mid-race leader, most recently I beleive MBNA did
one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
if the halfway leader also won the race.
John
TS02_05champ
> DAVe <small...@gmail.com> wrote
>> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
>> leading at halfway.
>
> I don't recall there ever being points, altho maybe there were in
> some of the weird points schemes NASCAR used before 1972. There
> have been several money awards (I think Unocal did one for a
> while) for the mid-race leader, most recently I beleive MBNA did
> one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
> if the halfway leader also won the race.
>
> John
Wow, I'm surprised that you and Pit don't remember this. The leader at
the 1/2 way point used to get 5 bonus points. And it wasn't that long
ago when they did away with it. I'm glad they got rid of it. It was
stupid. Kinda like getting 5 bonus points for leading a lap.
TS02_05champ
Guess I'm the one with the faulty memory, because I can't find one link
on Google about awarding points at the 1/2 way point. I do know that
they always made a big deal out of "leading at halfway and a bonus".
Maybe it was just money.
TS02_05champ
>> leading at halfway.
>
> I don't recall there ever being points, altho maybe there were in
> some of the weird points schemes NASCAR used before 1972. There
> have been several money awards (I think Unocal did one for a
> while) for the mid-race leader, most recently I beleive MBNA did
> one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
> if the halfway leader also won the race.
>
> John
Well, Dave, both of our memories are faulty....lol
Chad
They still have a prize for the halfway leader. One of those little stickers
they run sponsor it and only pay if the lead car is carrying their sticker.
--
Chad
DAVe
wrote:
> John McCoy wrote:
> > DAVe <smalleys...@gmail.com> wrote
Good catch.
Actually I like the concept of increasing rewards at different points
in the race.
1 for leading at 1/4, 2 for 1/2, 3 for 3/4 and 5-10 for winning.
I like reasons for making people want to be up front for more than
just the last lap.
I'd also have 5-20 minute breaks so TV could have their commercials
and us fans could go to the bathroom and beer/food stands.
I'm of the habit of relieving myself and buying lots of liquid just
before the race, standing straight through the race and hitting the
crowd pleaser after the checkers.
Chad
LOL, that thread is just an discussion over the same thing as this one, and
also without the answer.
--
Chad
Chuck Steak
>most recently I beleive MBNA did
>one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
>if the halfway leader also won the race.
>
>John
Are you thinking about the deal, where if you won the race AND
you were leading points, you got a rollover, weekly increasing bonus?
And when it was won, it started over again.
I don't recall the halfway/winner bonus.
Which certainly doesn't mean much.
I don't remember what I did last Thursday.
Dan
------------------------------------------
You should keep your words soft and sweet.
Tomorrow, you may have to eat them
TS02_05champ
> On Dec 14, 6:01 pm, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> John McCoy wrote:
>>> DAVe <smalleys...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
>>>> leading at halfway.
>>> I don't recall there ever being points, altho maybe there were in
>>> some of the weird points schemes NASCAR used before 1972. There
>>> have been several money awards (I think Unocal did one for a
>>> while) for the mid-race leader, most recently I beleive MBNA did
>>> one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
>>> if the halfway leader also won the race.
>>> John
>> Well, Dave, both of our memories are faulty....lol
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yczb47t
>
> Good catch.
I would have bet money that they used to get 5 bonus points for leading
at the halfway point.
Chuck Steak
>DAVe wrote:
>>>> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
>>>> leading at halfway.
>>>
>>> When did they award points for leading at halfway? Maybe I'm getting
>>> too old, but I don't recall Nascar ever awarding halfway points.
>>
>> I thought it was $10,000.00 and a point or two. Not positive on the
>> points, but for sure the money.
>They still have a prize for the halfway leader. One of those little stickers
>they run sponsor it and only pay if the lead car is carrying their sticker.
I don't think they do, Chad.
I think John was right.
MBNA used to do it, but they stopped, and it wasn't picked up.
They do have a ton of small awards from those fender sponsors,
but a halfway leader isn't one of them.
TS02_05champ
What do you mean without the answer? The second poster said you got 5
bonus points for leading at the halfway point and was corrected by 4
people.
TS02_05champ
> In article "Chad" <cbs...@safemail.com> wrote:
>> DAVe wrote:
>
>>>>> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points for
>>>>> leading at halfway.
>>>> When did they award points for leading at halfway? Maybe I'm getting
>>>> too old, but I don't recall Nascar ever awarding halfway points.
>>> I thought it was $10,000.00 and a point or two. Not positive on the
>>> points, but for sure the money.
>
>> They still have a prize for the halfway leader. One of those little stickers
>> they run sponsor it and only pay if the lead car is carrying their sticker.
>
>
> I don't think they do, Chad.
> I think John was right.
> MBNA used to do it, but they stopped, and it wasn't picked up.
> They do have a ton of small awards from those fender sponsors,
> but a halfway leader isn't one of them.
>
> Dan
During my "research" I read that Gatorade used to pay out money to the
leader at the 1/2 way point if the driver was carrying their sticker.
TS02_05champ
> In article John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> most recently I beleive MBNA did
>> one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
>> if the halfway leader also won the race.
>>
>> John
>
> Are you thinking about the deal, where if you won the race AND
> you were leading points, you got a rollover, weekly increasing bonus?
> And when it was won, it started over again.
> I don't recall the halfway/winner bonus.
> Which certainly doesn't mean much.
> I don't remember what I did last Thursday.
>
> Dan
I recall the leader at the halfway point getting something...I thought
it was 5 points and money, but now it seems it was just money.
They used to make a huge deal about being the leader at the halfway
point. Shit, now I'm gonna have to pull out some old races on VHS and
see exactly what it was.
John McCoy
@adenine.netfront.net:
> In article John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>most recently I beleive MBNA did
>>one that paid for leading at halfway, and an additional payout
>>if the halfway leader also won the race.
>>
>>John
>
> Are you thinking about the deal, where if you won the race AND
> you were leading points, you got a rollover, weekly increasing bonus?
> And when it was won, it started over again.
No, that was a different one (and annoyingly I can't recall right
at the moment who sponsored that, altho I know I know it).
> I don't recall the halfway/winner bonus.
I don't think it ran for very long...MBNA was bought by Bank of
America (one set of thieves acquiring another, some might say)
in 2005, and I don't recall them doing much in the way of
sponsorship before the turn of the century.
John
John McCoy
10cd65...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> I'd also have 5-20 minute breaks so TV could have their commercials
> and us fans could go to the bathroom and beer/food stands.
Y'know, what you really want is heats and features.
It has occured to me, with NASCAR's infatuation with bogus debris
cautions with maybe 20 laps to go being so pronounced in recent
times, that what they should do is, instead of running say a 300
lap race, is run a pair of 100 lap heats to set the starting
grid, and then a 25 lap feature for the money. It's pretty much
what you have now, running the first 200-odd laps just to gain
"track position", and then everyone running for the win in whatever
order they come out of the last pit stop. It'd simply be more
honest.
John
Chad
I didn't think it was that clear who was right or wrong there is all. We
have about the same number of people discussing it here and don't seem to
have it nailed down for certain either.
I wouldn't be surpised if someone turns up with a reference to it having
happened at some time yet.
--
Chad
Chad
> In article "Chad" <cbs...@safemail.com> wrote:
>> DAVe wrote:
>
>>>>> I liked it years ago when there was some money and a few points
>>>>> for leading at halfway.
>>>>
>>>> When did they award points for leading at halfway? Maybe I'm
>>>> getting too old, but I don't recall Nascar ever awarding halfway
>>>> points.
>>>
>>> I thought it was $10,000.00 and a point or two. Not positive on the
>>> points, but for sure the money.
>
>> They still have a prize for the halfway leader. One of those little
>> stickers they run sponsor it and only pay if the lead car is
>> carrying their sticker.
>
>
> I don't think they do, Chad.
> I think John was right.
> MBNA used to do it, but they stopped, and it wasn't picked up.
> They do have a ton of small awards from those fender sponsors,
> but a halfway leader isn't one of them.
>
> Dan
He sounds like he knows!
Maybe I was getting mixed up with the Nationwide series or something.
--
Chad
TS02_05champ
>
Well, Pit and McCoy have a NASACR vault in their head and they are
usually correct.
I also checked Wiki (yeah I know) and there is no mention of points at
the 1/2 way point of the race.
When I get time, I'll pull out some of my older races on VHS and see
what is mentioned.
Maybe Alan Jones can give us the *exact* details <G>
Chuck Steak
>Chuck...@nospam.com (Chuck Steak) wrote in news:hg6p00$1kv9$1
>@adenine.netfront.net:
>> Are you thinking about the deal, where if you won the race AND
>> you were leading points, you got a rollover, weekly increasing bonus?
>> And when it was won, it started over again.
>No, that was a different one (and annoyingly I can't recall right
>at the moment who sponsored that, altho I know I know it).
Nextel.
>I don't think it ran for very long...MBNA was bought by Bank of
>America
>John
You're right.
It didn't last very long.
Chad
LOL
An AJ style endless argument might help fill in the off season at least!
They must be near ready to wind tunnel test those roof flaps in reverse if
you are reading Alan. :-)
--
Chad
twisted
1972 Season Recap
February 6, 2002
10:40 PM EST (0340 GMT)
1972 was a special year in NASCAR history. Not only did the
organization get a new president as Bill France handed the reins to
his son, Bill Jr., but the sanctioning body would have a new ally. The
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, through its Winston brand, would become
the title sponsor of the NASCAR Winston Cup Series (formerly NASCAR
Grand National). Their involvement began the evolution of stock car
racing and marked the beginning of NASCAR's ascent to major league
status. More money was involved in the series and drivers now had more
to race for.
A new point system was also created where the winner would receive 100
points for a race victory with a drop of two points for each position
thereafter. Each driver also received points based on each lap
competed in every race, and point values were determined by the length
of the race track.
DAVe
> DAVe <smalleys...@gmail.com> wrote in news:7d5e64f7-6143-4e1d-be22-
> 10cd65485...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
You've mentioned this before but after thinking about your heats and
features suggestion I feel it's much different scenario.
It seems to me that heats are needed when you have too many cars for
the final.
NASCAR likes 43 on track. This would give them the 43 on track, all
bunched up nice and neat.
twisted
"No" points for "halfway":
For instance, the 1949 points system awarded points to the top 10
finishers in each race -- 10 for first, 9 for second, 8 for third, and
so on -- multiplied by a percentage of the race purse. So for
Charlotte, winner Jim Roper received 250 points (10 x ($5,000 x .
005)). In 1952, the basis was expanded to the top 25 finishers and the
multiplier altered. That system stayed in place until 1968, when the
basis jumped to 50 points and the multiplier used race distances
instead of purses.
In 1972, points were doubled and laps completed were added to the
equation. And two years later, the points were based on total money
winnings multiplied by starts divided by 1,000. So series champion
Richard Petty accumulated 5,037.75 points in 30 races, while third-
place David Pearson wound up with 2,389.25, despite running 11 fewer
events.
In the summer of 1974, Bill France realized he had to do something.
New series sponsor R.J. Reynolds wanted more exposure, and a points
system that would create more late-season suspense was paramount to
their marketing plans. So France turned to Latford, a long-time public
relations official and Daytona Beach native who went to school with
France's son.
Latford explained to the other two how he felt the points system
should work, settling on 175 points for the race winner and using what
Holmer referred to as "an accordion" effect to distribute points to
each succeeding position. Latford suggested a difference of five
points between the top five finishing positions, four points between
positions sixth through 10th, and then three points thereafter.
http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/features/02/18/enterprise.maumann.evolution.points.system/index.html
george9219
wrote:
> Chad wrote:
> > TS02_05champ wrote:
> >> Chad wrote:
> >>> TS02_05champ wrote:
> >>>> John McCoy wrote:
I'm pretty sure points were never awarded for leading at the halfway
point, but I am sure that they used to award money for it. The
commentators used to make a big deal of it, an for a while, they even
had a promotion that awarded money to a fan (or fans) that correctly
predicted the driver leading at halfway. I'm not sure when they ended
the practice, but I'm sure it was in force in the eighties, and
possibly into the nineties.
John McCoy
0d7b90...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> It seems to me that heats are needed when you have too many cars for
> the final.
Yeah, that's what they're often used for. But a lot of Saturday
night tracks use them to set the starting order for the main
event, even tho they don't have too many cars. Drivers prefer
it over qualifying because they get to race two races, a heat
and the feature, instead of just one.
It's the latter scenario that NASCAR has become similar to, except
with a very long heat. The first race is for fun, and to set the
starting order. Then the second race is for all the money.
And, of course, heats and features at the Saturday night track
gives everyone plenty of time to hit the restroom, beer stand,
and perhaps grab a funnel cake.
John
JerryD(upstateNY)
But a lot of Saturday night tracks use them to set the starting order for
the main
event, even tho they don't have too many cars.
Now, the heat races mean nothing with most of the tracks around here.
They line up in the feature by how much money you won in the last 3 weeks.
The more money you won, the farther BACK you start.
If you haven't been there for the last 3 weeks, you are credited with 3
wins.
This starts the fast cars in the rear and makes a much better show than
starting the fastest car on the poll, second fastest on the outside poll,
etc, etc, like the WoO cars start their features.
Years ago, on any Friday, Saturday or Sunday, they had more cars come to the
track than would start the feature, so the heats meant something.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
armpit
"JerryD(upstateNY)" <m...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hg84mb$8kf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> John wrote......
> But a lot of Saturday night tracks use them to set the starting order for
> the main
> event, even tho they don't have too many cars.
>
> Now, the heat races mean nothing with most of the tracks around here.
> They line up in the feature by how much money you won in the last 3 weeks.
> The more money you won, the farther BACK you start.
> If you haven't been there for the last 3 weeks, you are credited with 3
> wins.
> This starts the fast cars in the rear and makes a much better show than
> starting the fastest car on the poll, second fastest on the outside poll,
> etc, etc, like the WoO cars start their features.
The track I raced at used to do nearly the same thing, except that they
based it on your average finish for the previous 3 weeks rather than your
winnings.
Chuck Steak
>Now, the heat races mean nothing with most of the tracks around here.
>They line up in the feature by how much money you won in the last 3 weeks.
>This starts the fast cars in the rear and makes a much better show than
>starting the fastest car on the poll, second fastest on the outside poll,
>etc, etc, like the WoO cars start their features.
That's the way it always was where we raced as well.
What changed that for the two local tracks here, was when they
went to NASCAR affiliation.
When you were running for NASCAR regional/national short track titles,
you were competing for NASCAR points,
against guys at other tracks in other states, even in different classes,
that started their features heads up by time trials or heats.
SO...... The guys that were in contention to win the NASCAR champeenship
were fast guys, starting on the point, and winning 14 features in a season.
Pretty tough for guys starting in the back every week to keep up that way!
Now they have some sort of compromise, where you can't start further back
than like 10th if you win your qualifier.
It's a ton tougher winning 35-50 lap races from the back!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan
I got a new Matco tool box for my wife.
Best trade I ever made...
John McCoy
@adenine.netfront.net:
> In article John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>No, that was a different one (and annoyingly I can't recall right
>>at the moment who sponsored that, altho I know I know it).
>
> Nextel.
Right, now I remember. It used to be the Winston Leader Bonus
or something like that, and then it changed to the NASCAR
Nextel Leader Bonus. Having the NASCAR name in there threw
me off (I've been pretty much tired of the NASCAR this and
NASCAR that ever since Helton & co decided they had to stick
in the name in everywhere they possibly could).
John
JerryD(upstateNY)
At that time there were 35-40 cars showing up for every race, trying for the
24 starting spots in the feature.
Many of the heat races were better than the feature.
Fulton Speedway in Fulton, NY was a 3/8 mile paved oval.
One time they ran a special race........50 cars 50 laps.
The car on the poll came up to the last car on the first lap.
The fans got their money's worth that day. <g>
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
armpit
"TS02_05champ" <tonystewar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b26fbfd$0$4971$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
<snip>
>
> Well, Pit and McCoy have a NASACR vault in their head and they are usually
> correct.
>
McCoy has a vault. I have a lockbox with a broken hinge.
DAVe
> "TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
I got an old gunny-sack that I have to climb into with a flashlight.