The damning evidence
Hell and High Water
Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
help McLaren with its set-up.
Toast.
They're finished.
Banned from ever competing in F1.
buh-bye
-Bob
Probert
"Hell and High Water" <tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.214a0009c...@news.giganews.com...
The only problem being that, at the moment, that's just press speculation.
The FIA haven't (won't) confirm it. Neither will McLaren and, Ferrari are
out of the loop on this one, for the moment.
Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything
about due process.
Cheers,
Probert.
Jari Arkko
> A permanent ban is a minimum.
Personally, I'd like to be stricter, this is a very
serious matter. Permanent + 3 years, at least.
Luigi Topolino
McLaren have already been adjudicated guilty once in this mess, and
evenhanded due process would have them then punished accordingly.
Or is the shitstain apologist voice in your head putting words in my
mouth?
Luigi Topolino
And Ron Dennis should be forced to pay restitution.
Phil Newnham
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
> help McLaren with its set-up.
The press has Fernando Alonso confused with Mika Salo, presumably.
--
Phil
AC
"noone" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:noone-AFD255....@free.teranews.com...
> In article <jvo0e3d1tgef8nptg...@4ax.com>,
>
Mutual masterbation in public is a criminal offence.
AC
Charles Perry
"Luigi Topolino" <tif...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jvo0e3d1tgef8nptg...@4ax.com...
News
One might persuasively argue that anyone working for
BernieCo Enterprises is already in that position.
Luigi Topolino
He's no doubt a patron already.
CatharticF1
There are two things that motivate me about this.
The first is that Ferrari do look to have been cheated out of what they
deserved this season. I wanted the season they *should* have had, not
whatever might result.
The second is that the people in this group who have been so pathetically
and transparently in denial of a sequence of such highly suspicious facts
will lose even the laughable pretence of a claim to credibility.
Sure the chief Designer had the documents.
But there could not be even indirect benefit to the team he works for.
Nobody else knew.
Or if they did they stopped him from receiving information at work.
Or it's whistle blowing.
Any senior McLaren staff who might have seen diagrams remembered that they
didn't want to look at what Coughlan showed them anyway..
And there is no possible way to get any benefit from 780 pages of
documentation with something as complex as an F1 car even if they did know.
It's just a coincidence that McLaren made such a turnaround.
It's a sad episode.
--
CatharticF1
McLaren - breaking regulations with impunity.
Phil Carmody
> "Hell and High Water" <tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message
> Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything
> about due process.
I was going to say "aren't we all lucky that neither he, Brian
nor Mark actually know anything about anything", and then I
realised that in reality I would be happier if they would evolve
a brain, preferably one each.
Phil
--
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
-- Microsoft voice recognition live demonstration
Luigi Topolino
wrote:
Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which
quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless
submission to a cult of personality.
As much as I want punishment and retribution exacted from Ron Dennis
and his filthy gang of thieves, for hammering the nails in the coffin
of F1 above all else, I hope those who support and excuse their
methods and practices, as such suit their own prejudices and
bigotries, somehow suffer the agonizing realization that their
self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" were never
anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
Luigi Topolino
<thefatphi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>"Probert" <nick.wf1...@btinternet.com> writes:
>> "Hell and High Water" <tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message
>[SNIP - hellishly out-of-depth blather]
>
>> Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything
>> about due process.
>
>I was going to say "aren't we all lucky that neither he, Brian
>nor Mark actually know anything about anything", and then I
>realised that in reality I would be happier if they would evolve
>a brain, preferably one each.
You two jerk-offs want to get a room?
...Burning books in public is so 'last pogrom'.
Greg Campbell
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
> help McLaren with its set-up.
Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
Doh, Homer! DOH!!
CatharticF1
@newsfe06.phx:
Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the
Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so
of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a
significantly different tire".
And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
Of course it it would.
That you or any of the Denial Club pretend that McLaren engineers couldn't
make use of detail of a car running Bridgestone tyres with cardboard and
string suspension speaks only to your bias.
DC
<tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>The suggestion is that...
>The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
>it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
>help McLaren with its set-up.
Important four words omitted from your quote from press speculation
reinserted...
>Toast.
I'll have blackcurrant jam with mine, please.
>They're finished.
You're a half wit.
>Banned from ever competing in F1.
Here we go again. Guilty until proven innocent, based on media
speculation...
>buh-bye
I do hope you mean that. Take the other two transatlantic dickheads
with you...
David
DC
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which
>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless
>submission to a cult of personality.
Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's
you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial
self-interest"...
>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices
>that suit my own prejudices and
>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my
>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never
>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
I give you none.
David
Bob Dubery
wrote:
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
> help McLaren with its set-up.
Now why don't you try quoting accurately - especially if you're going
to crow about somebody else's ethics?
Bob Dubery
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:17:16 +0300, Jari Arkko
>
> >> A permanent ban is a minimum.
>
> >Personally, I'd like to be stricter, this is a very
> >serious matter. Permanent + 3 years, at least.
>
> And Ron Dennis should be forced to pay restitution.
Personally I'd like the various people complaining about ethics and
honesty to check things for accuracy before they get on an even higher
horse.
AC
"Bob Dubery" <mega...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189153293.6...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
And learn a bit of motorsport history.
AC
Suzieflame
wrote:
Here here. Frusciante is a fat, ugly, ill-educated, malicious racist,
and always has been.
Suzie
--
Suzieflame
DC
wrote:
Expecting porcine aviation are we...?
David
DC
<suzie...@yachtmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:10:01 +0100, DC <gojphN...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:43:04 -0400, Luigi Topolino
>><tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
>>>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which
>>>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless
>>>submission to a cult of personality.
>>
>>Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's
>>you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial
>>self-interest"...
>>
>>>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices
>>>that suit my own prejudices and
>>>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my
>>>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never
>>>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
>>
>>There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>>
>>>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
>>
>>I give you none.
>>
>Here here. Frusciante is a fat, ugly, ill-educated, malicious racist,
>and always has been.
And to think I once tried to persuade you otherwise at Le Mans...
David
DC
wrote:
>On Sep 6, 8:16 pm, Hell and High Water <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net>
You're lucky he can even read...
David
Suzieflame
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest
<high speed coffee projectile hits 22" flatscreen monitor>
Oh, the irony!
Suzie
--
Suzieflame
Bigbird
> Hell and High Water <tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in
> news:MPG.214a0009c...@news.giganews.com:
>
> > The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from
> > which it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was
> > used to help McLaren with its set-up.
> >
> >
> >
> > Toast.
> >
> >
> > They're finished.
> >
> >
> > Banned from ever competing in F1.
> >
> >
> > buh-bye
>
> There are two things that motivate me about this.
>
> The first is that Ferrari do look to have been cheated out of what
> they deserved this season. I wanted the season they should have had,
> not whatever might result.
>
> The second is that the people in this group who have been so
> pathetically and transparently in denial of a sequence of such highly
> suspicious facts will lose even the laughable pretence of a claim to
> credibility.
>
If you were honest what bothers you most is that you lost all
credibility some months ago. Trying to taint those of us who chose to
rely on facts rather than wild speculation is laughable and you further
demean yourself.
>
> It's a sad episode.
In oh so many ways.
--
Bigbird
> Greg Campbell <ggeo...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in
> news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583 @newsfe06.phx:
>
> > Hell and High Water wrote:
> >
> >> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails
> between >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la
> Rosa, from which >> it is clear that information that originated from
> Ferrari was used to >> help McLaren with its set-up.
> >
> > Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
> > settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
> >
> > Doh, Homer! DOH!!
>
> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing
> the Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a
> month or so of design, work, and testing before the car could
> properly make use of a significantly different tire".
>
> And yet now you conveniently put forward that it wouldn't help to
> know how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
> Of course it it would.
>
And you consider that a level playing field.
--
DC
They don't do irony, donja know...
David
Luigi Topolino
>wrote:
>>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:43:04 -0400, Luigi Topolino
>><tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
>>>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which
>>>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless
>>>submission to a cult of personality.
>>
>>Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's
>>you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial
>>self-interest"...
>>
>>>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices
>>>that suit my own prejudices and
>>>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my
>>>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never
>>>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
>>
>>There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
HAHAHAHA That kindergarten cut and paste bit is SO Oscar Wilde!
>>>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
>>
>>I give you none.
Piss off, freakshow.
>Here here. Frusciante is a fat, ugly, ill-educated, malicious racist,
>and always has been.
Dude, your slip is showing.
Suzieflame
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Dude, you have got your attributes all mixed up. Way to look like a
fool, dude...
Suzie
--
Suzieflame
Lloyd
wrote:
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
> help McLaren with its set-up.
>
And I've heard Elvis is alive and well on Mars.
> Toast.
>
> They're finished.
>
> Banned from ever competing in F1.
>
> buh-bye
>
> -Bob
Lloyd
> Greg Campbell <ggeone...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583
> @newsfe06.phx:
>
> > Hell and High Water wrote:
>
> >> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
> >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
> >> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
> >> help McLaren with its set-up.
>
> > Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
> > settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
>
> > Doh, Homer! DOH!!
>
> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the
> Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so
> of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a
> significantly different tire".
>
> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
> how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
Not unless you had the same chassis, suspension, etc. And not unless
the tires were identical to last year's.
Greg Campbell
> Greg Campbell <ggeo...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583
> @newsfe06.phx:
>
>> Hell and High Water wrote:
>>
>>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>>> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
>>> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
>>> help McLaren with its set-up.
>> Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
>> settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
>>
>> Doh, Homer! DOH!!
> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the
> Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so
> of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a
> significantly different tire".
> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
> how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
> Of course it it would.
Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!' (But
you might first take the time to prove that some form of data exchange
actually occurred!! As of Friday, 9/7, I don't believe any such proof
has been offered.)
The tilt of the original post was that a 'stolen' Fez setup would
somehow transmogrify the sluggard Macs into world beaters. That's absurd.
Again, without knowing what data - IF ANY - Fred and Pedro exchanged, it
is impossible to say anything meaningful. That doesn't stop the
Frothing Ferrari Faithful types from calling for Ron's head on a stick,
and throwing shit at anyone who doesn't 'mega-ditto' their immediate
sycophant support for the 'Great Crusade' you presume to champion. Take
your shit and .....
> That you or any of the Denial Club pretend that McLaren engineers couldn't
> make use of detail of a car running Bridgestone tyres with cardboard and
> string suspension speaks only to your bias.
'My bias' - LOL! Sorry, nitwit, I've never been much of a joiner.
I'm calling total f-ing bullshit there, pal. To paint me as a card
carrying 'Denial Club' member is chickenshit. Neither you nor I have
any clue what data was in the book, or what data may or may not have
been exchanged between various drivers. The Frothing Ferrari Faithful
insist that McLaren would be incapable of changing the oil without the
'Stolen Data.' When I take a more moderate view, and say 'prove it,'
you accuse me of burying my head in the sand. Just because I don't
agree with your polarized opinion doesn't mean I hold an equally extreme
opposite view.
While you're digging up my old posts, why don't you re-read my opinion
that Ron's mishandling of the Hungary debacle has cost Ron/Mac the
benefit of the doubt in my eyes.
-Moo!
alexti
> CatharticF1 wrote:
>> Greg Campbell <ggeo...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in
>> news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583 @newsfe06.phx:
>>
>>> Hell and High Water wrote:
>>>
>>>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>>>> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from
>>>> which it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was
>>>> used to help McLaren with its set-up.
>
>>> Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
>>> settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
>>>
>>> Doh, Homer! DOH!!
>
>> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing
>> the Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a
>> month or so of design, work, and testing before the car could properly
>> make use of a significantly different tire".
>
>> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to
>> know how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
>> Of course it it would.
>
> Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
> particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
> extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
> guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
> findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!'
I think that at this stage the primary importance of the evidence (if it
exists) related to usage of Ferraris setups will be in discrediting
McLaren's statements about their innocence and full cooperation with FIA.
If there's a prove that something as minor as looking at Ferrari's setups
has been used by McLaren, WMSC is likely to request McLaren to proof that
no other use of those materials has been made instead of evaluating if
McLaren has gained any advantage from what they've admitted at the previous
meeting.
If McLaren revealed that they've looked at Ferrari's setups during the
initial investigation, evaluating how much advantage it could provide would
be relevant to the verdict, but now, if those allegations are true, McLaren
will likely be seiously penalised, no matter how useful or not that
information has been.
Greg Campbell
> Greg Campbell <ggeo...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in
>> Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
>> particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
>> extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
>> guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
>> findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!'
> I think that at this stage the primary importance of the evidence (if it
> exists) related to usage of Ferraris setups will be in discrediting
> McLaren's statements about their innocence and full cooperation with FIA.
>
> If there's a prove that something as minor as looking at Ferrari's setups
> has been used by McLaren, WMSC is likely to request McLaren to proof that
> no other use of those materials has been made instead of evaluating if
> McLaren has gained any advantage from what they've admitted at the previous
> meeting.
>
> If McLaren revealed that they've looked at Ferrari's setups during the
> initial investigation, evaluating how much advantage it could provide would
> be relevant to the verdict, but now, if those allegations are true, McLaren
> will likely be seiously penalised, no matter how useful or not that
> information has been.
Greets Alex.
One thing wonder about is this: just how specific is the information
the drivers might have exchanged? I suspect that they talk to their
race engineers in terms of "Let's try increasing the fast rebound to 6."
(Whatever a '6' may be...) Do they actually know how many
Newton-seconds per meter this works out to? (For that matter, do they
have a clue at what wheel speeds the fast damping kick in?? This is
likely to be changeable and track specific.) Even if they did, you
again run into differing suspension geometries, probably rendering the
data somewhat / largely irrelevant. Beyond that are all manner of
complex curves relating camber/caster/etc. to steering angle, ride
height, etc.... I REALLY doubt that Fred Alonso knows the specifics of
this stuff.
It's just possible that Mac, Ferrari, and other top-tier teams have
experienced a form of parallel evolution, and that their respective
suspension packages are nearly identical? This seems highly unlikely,
IMO. With such great potential for differences, both subtle and
complex, between the two teams, I strongly doubt that Ferrari's specific
setup information would be of huge value to another team.
-Moo
alexti
Hey Greg :)
I don't know in what terms F1 cars are set up. I can only extrapolate my
own experiences from sim-racing. Sometimes the general idea of someone
else's setup can be useful, because you haven't think about it - something
along very different lines than your own direction. I don't know if such
things can happen in F1, maybe every team tries (or simulates) all even
remotely possible ideas for setup. I agree it's highly unlikely to be of
huge value, but whether it's useful or not... I don't have enough
information even to make an educated guess :)
Alex.
ric zito
> from which it is clear
No it isn't.
> that information that originated from Ferrari
<quote Alonso> "I don't believe it" </unquote>.
> was used to help McLaren with its set-up.
Yeah, sure it was.
--
ric at pixelligence dot com
ric zito
> In article <Xns99A4694725B2F...@202.83.64.15>,
> CatharticF1 <efer...@heaven.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > It's a sad episode.
>
> You are referring to the degredation that resulted when England ceased
> to be an Italian colony, right?
It was never an "Italian" colony, you illiterate twat.
Luigi Topolino
Piss of lady, I know fully well I was responding to two different
freakshows.
ric zito
> > > You are referring to the degredation that resulted when England ceased
> > > to be an Italian colony, right?
> >
> > It was never an "Italian" colony, you illiterate twat.
>
> Sure it was. So was France.
>
> It galls me to have to educate you.
So educate yourself.
News
noone wrote:
> In article <1i44jo4.pc5wtej4ijvoN%add...@in.sig>,
> Sure it was. So was France.
>
> It galls me to have to educate you.
>
That would be Gauls, no?
Greg Campbell
>> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
>> how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
> Well done. A liar exposed.
That's a sad little world you inhabit. May your suffering be brief.
Suzieflame
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 19:32:40 -0400, "Charles Perry"
><pipesan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>"Luigi Topolino" <tif...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:jvo0e3d1tgef8nptg...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:17:16 +0300, Jari Arkko
>>> <ja...@otapois.arkko.com> wrote:
>>>>> A permanent ban is a minimum.
>>>>
>>>>Personally, I'd like to be stricter, this is a very
>>>>serious matter. Permanent + 3 years, at least.
>>>
>>> And Ron Dennis should be forced to pay restitution.
>>>
>>I say force him into prostitution.
>
>He's no doubt a patron already.
"The late Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, who was Ferrari's technical
director, admitted that he had been the mastermind behind a
clandestine break-in at the Williams garage during the German Grand
Prix in 1980. A group of Ferrari personnel spent the entire night in
the garage, wielding their tape measures and taking photographs of the
car that would win Australian Alan Jones that year's championship.
Ironically, none of the information gleaned appeared to make any
difference to Ferrari."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2042025.ece
http://sport.independent.co.uk/motor_racing/article2737046.ece
Suzie
--
Suzieflame
Suzieflame
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
"The late Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, who was Ferrari's technical
RBrickston
suzie...@yachtmail.com says...
Ferrari at the 1980 German Grand Prix when he did not work for Ferrari
until May of 1981?
Luigi Topolino
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
--
"Shame that New Zealand team made a mess of things."
Luigi Topolino
Suzieflame
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>people will eventually come to believe it." - Max Mosley, son of famous Nazi.
Indeed.
Suzie
--
Suzieflame
Dan
>Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the
>Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so
>of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a
>significantly different tire".
>
>And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
>how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
>Of course it it would.
>
>That you or any of the Denial Club pretend that McLaren engineers couldn't
>make use of detail of a car running Bridgestone tyres with cardboard and
>string suspension speaks only to your bias.
I seem to remember a Bridgestone guy on ITV coverage saying that the
control tyres used this year are significantly different to those of
previous seasons and use much cheaper, simplified rubber compounds.
If so, I doubt that data gathered from last year's tyres are much
use for this year's.
Richard Miller
<nick.wf1...@btinternet.com> writes
>
>"Hell and High Water" <tifo...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message
>news:MPG.214a0009c...@news.giganews.com...
>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
>> help McLaren with its set-up.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> They're finished.
>>
>>
>> Banned from ever competing in F1.
>>
>>
>> buh-bye
>
>The FIA haven't (won't) confirm it. Neither will McLaren and, Ferrari are
>out of the loop on this one, for the moment.
>
>Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything
>about due process.
>
>Cheers,
>Probert.
Can someone help me with two problems here.
Problem number 1: If a permanent for all time ban is the right
punishment for what McLaren have done here, what is the appropriate
punishment for breaking into a rival team's garage and spending the
entire night measuring every last bit of the car?
Problem number 2: How could information about how the Ferrari is set up
be of any use in setting up the very differently constructed McLaren?
--
Richard Miller
Alessandro D. Petaccia
<ric...@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Can someone help me with two problems here.
Sure, it's monday and I don't really feel like working anyway.
>Problem number 1: If a permanent for all time ban is the right
>punishment for what McLaren have done here,
But it is not.
> what is the appropriate punishment for breaking into a rival team's garage...
Well, assuming it's true (which we'll never know) I kinda like that
one. It sounds like the Good Old Days, you know? When men were men,
cars were cars, and teams snuck into each other's garages with
measuring tapes. Measuring tapes! And what do we get now? CAD-CAM
files on pendrives. How horribly unromantic.
But having said that, I'd give them both the same punishment; I just
can't be bothered to figure one out.
>
>Problem number 2: How could information about how the Ferrari is set up
>be of any use in setting up the very differently constructed McLaren?
Ah, but we don't know that, now do we. Apart from the obvious
consideration that knowing your enemy gives you an advantage by
default; and apart from the fact that if the law says what they did is
illegal, whether useful or not, then punished they shall be,
modern F1 cars are slightly more complicated than Windows Millennium
Edition, I believe; so even your rival's smallest bit could
potentially give you one of those "ah-hah!" moments that lead to
improvement in your own design...
ADP.
Phil Newnham
One might even suggest that data gathered from tests when a particular
team was last using Bridgestones would be just as useful...
--
Phil
DC
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:12:51 +0200, Suzieflame
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:10:01 +0100, DC <gojphNOJUN...@hotmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:43:04 -0400, Luigi Topolino
> >><tif...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of
> >>>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which
> >>>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless
> >>>submission to a cult of personality.
>
> >>Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's
> >>you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial
> >>self-interest"...
>
> >>>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices
> >>>that suit my own prejudices and
> >>>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my
> >>>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never
> >>>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
>
> >>There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>
> HAHAHAHA That kindergarten cut and paste bit is SO Oscar Wilde!
"Cut and paste"? I just edited your drivel - no need to use Ctrl at
all. Do you know how to use a computer...?
> >>>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
>
> >>I give you none.
>
> Piss off, freakshow.
Erudite, witty response, as ever...
dAVID
DC
>
> "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
> people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
Only the dumb people. You've been telling the same lies here endlessly
for years, chump, and very few around here with more than one brain
cell (that lets out your bosom buddies) believe a single world of the
shite you spout...
David