The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to help McLaren with its set-up.
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which > it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to > help McLaren with its set-up.
> Toast.
> They're finished.
> Banned from ever competing in F1.
> buh-bye
The only problem being that, at the moment, that's just press speculation. The FIA haven't (won't) confirm it. Neither will McLaren and, Ferrari are out of the loop on this one, for the moment.
Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything about due process.
<nick.wf1commde...@btinternet.com> wrote: >"Hell and High Water" <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message >news:MPG.214a0009c7c76147989b1b@news.giganews.com... >> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which >> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to >> help McLaren with its set-up.
>> Toast.
>> They're finished.
>> Banned from ever competing in F1.
>> buh-bye
>The only problem being that, at the moment, that's just press speculation. >The FIA haven't (won't) confirm it. Neither will McLaren and, Ferrari are >out of the loop on this one, for the moment.
>Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything >about due process.
McLaren have already been adjudicated guilty once in this mess, and evenhanded due process would have them then punished accordingly. Or is the shitstain apologist voice in your head putting words in my mouth?
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which > it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to > help McLaren with its set-up.
The press has Fernando Alonso confused with Mika Salo, presumably.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 19:32:40 -0400, "Charles Perry"
<pipesandtoba...@hotmail.com> wrote: >"Luigi Topolino" <tif...@mindspring.com> wrote in message >news:jvo0e3d1tgef8nptg05p6abhv3dt5ruu0u@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:17:16 +0300, Jari Arkko >> <j...@otapois.arkko.com> wrote: >>>> A permanent ban is a minimum.
>>>Personally, I'd like to be stricter, this is a very >>>serious matter. Permanent + 3 years, at least.
>> And Ron Dennis should be forced to pay restitution.
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which > it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to > help McLaren with its set-up.
> Toast.
> They're finished.
> Banned from ever competing in F1.
> buh-bye
There are two things that motivate me about this.
The first is that Ferrari do look to have been cheated out of what they deserved this season. I wanted the season they *should* have had, not whatever might result.
The second is that the people in this group who have been so pathetically and transparently in denial of a sequence of such highly suspicious facts will lose even the laughable pretence of a claim to credibility.
Sure the chief Designer had the documents. But there could not be even indirect benefit to the team he works for. Nobody else knew. Or if they did they stopped him from receiving information at work. Or it's whistle blowing. Any senior McLaren staff who might have seen diagrams remembered that they didn't want to look at what Coughlan showed them anyway.. And there is no possible way to get any benefit from 780 pages of documentation with something as complex as an F1 car even if they did know. It's just a coincidence that McLaren made such a turnaround.
"Probert" <nick.wf1commde...@btinternet.com> writes: > "Hell and High Water" <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message
[SNIP - hellishly out-of-depth blather]
> Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything > about due process.
I was going to say "aren't we all lucky that neither he, Brian nor Mark actually know anything about anything", and then I realised that in reality I would be happier if they would evolve a brain, preferably one each.
Phil -- Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all. -- Microsoft voice recognition live demonstration
>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which >> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to >> help McLaren with its set-up.
>> Toast.
>> They're finished.
>> Banned from ever competing in F1.
>> buh-bye
>There are two things that motivate me about this.
>The first is that Ferrari do look to have been cheated out of what they >deserved this season. I wanted the season they *should* have had, not >whatever might result.
>The second is that the people in this group who have been so pathetically >and transparently in denial of a sequence of such highly suspicious facts >will lose even the laughable pretence of a claim to credibility.
>Sure the chief Designer had the documents. >But there could not be even indirect benefit to the team he works for. >Nobody else knew. >Or if they did they stopped him from receiving information at work. >Or it's whistle blowing. >Any senior McLaren staff who might have seen diagrams remembered that they >didn't want to look at what Coughlan showed them anyway.. >And there is no possible way to get any benefit from 780 pages of >documentation with something as complex as an F1 car even if they did know. >It's just a coincidence that McLaren made such a turnaround.
>It's a sad episode.
Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless submission to a cult of personality.
As much as I want punishment and retribution exacted from Ron Dennis and his filthy gang of thieves, for hammering the nails in the coffin of F1 above all else, I hope those who support and excuse their methods and practices, as such suit their own prejudices and bigotries, somehow suffer the agonizing realization that their self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" were never anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
<thefatphil_demun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >"Probert" <nick.wf1commde...@btinternet.com> writes: >> "Hell and High Water" <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote in message >[SNIP - hellishly out-of-depth blather]
>> Aren't we all lucky that neither you, Brian or Mark actually know anything >> about due process.
>I was going to say "aren't we all lucky that neither he, Brian >nor Mark actually know anything about anything", and then I >realised that in reality I would be happier if they would evolve >a brain, preferably one each.
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which > it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to > help McLaren with its set-up.
Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
Greg Campbell <ggeone...@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583 @newsfe06.phx:
> Hell and High Water wrote:
>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which >> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to >> help McLaren with its set-up.
> Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero > settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
> Doh, Homer! DOH!!
Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a significantly different tire".
And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
Of course it it would.
That you or any of the Denial Club pretend that McLaren engineers couldn't make use of detail of a car running Bridgestone tyres with cardboard and string suspension speaks only to your bias.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:16:51 -0500, Hell and High Water
<tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote: >The suggestion is that... >The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between >Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which >it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to >help McLaren with its set-up.
Important four words omitted from your quote from press speculation reinserted...
>Toast.
I'll have blackcurrant jam with mine, please.
>They're finished.
You're a half wit.
>Banned from ever competing in F1.
Here we go again. Guilty until proven innocent, based on media speculation...
>buh-bye
I do hope you mean that. Take the other two transatlantic dickheads with you...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:43:04 -0400, Luigi Topolino
<tif...@mindspring.com> wrote: >Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of >unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which >quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless >submission to a cult of personality.
Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest"...
>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices >that suit my own prejudices and >bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my >self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never >anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
On Sep 6, 8:16 pm, Hell and High Water <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between > Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which > it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to > help McLaren with its set-up.
Now why don't you try quoting accurately - especially if you're going to crow about somebody else's ethics?
> On Sep 6, 10:34 pm, Luigi Topolino <tif...@mindspring.com> wrote: >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:17:16 +0300, Jari Arkko
>> <j...@otapois.arkko.com> wrote: >> >> A permanent ban is a minimum.
>> >Personally, I'd like to be stricter, this is a very >> >serious matter. Permanent + 3 years, at least.
>> And Ron Dennis should be forced to pay restitution.
> Personally I'd like the various people complaining about ethics and > honesty to check things for accuracy before they get on an even > higher > horse.
>>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of >>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which >>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless >>submission to a cult of personality.
>Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's >you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial >self-interest"...
>>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices >>that suit my own prejudices and >>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my >>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never >>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
>There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
>I give you none.
>David
Here here. Frusciante is a fat, ugly, ill-educated, malicious racist, and always has been.
>>>Indeed. But it serves as 21st century reminder of the dangers of >>>unchecked nationalism, bigotry, and parochial self-interest, which >>>quickly lead to the wholesale rejection of reason and mindless >>>submission to a cult of personality.
>>Here we go. "I am not a bigot" (c) MJ Frusciante. As ever though, it's >>you who is the first to mention "nationalism, bigotry, and parochial >>self-interest"...
>>>I support and excuse any of Ferrari's methods and practices >>>that suit my own prejudices and >>>bigotries, without suffering the agonizing realization that my >>>self-proclaimed "propriety", "superiority" and "greatness" was never >>>anything more than a delusional, boastful, fraudulent sham.
>>There, adjusted slightly to make a good mission statement for you...
>>>...But I give the wretched shitstained pigs far too much credit.
>>I give you none.
>Here here. Frusciante is a fat, ugly, ill-educated, malicious racist, >and always has been.
And to think I once tried to persuade you otherwise at Le Mans...
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:19:07 -0700, Bob Dubery <megap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 6, 8:16 pm, Hell and High Water <tifoso...@OVEcomcast.net> >wrote: >> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between >> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which >> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to >> help McLaren with its set-up.
>Now why don't you try quoting accurately - especially if you're going >to crow about somebody else's ethics?
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