At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace' since the season opener.
CatharticF1 wrote:
> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have
> any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided
> Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the
> championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now
> that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace'
> since the season opener.
On Apr 23, 2:38 am, CatharticF1 <rasf1pos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace' since the season opener.
> They seem to be going backwards..
I think there is podium or better pace in the cars and drivers, it's
strategic calls and pit work that are letting them down. The McLaren
is the only car that's had good pace in every race so far. Now that
might mean that it's the only car that's worked in every set of
conditions, or it might mean that they understood their car better and
faster than the other teams who are now catching up.
The last two races Button has been well placed for a charge late in
the race, and looked to have the speed to do something with it, but
had the rug pulled from underneath him by, respectively, a botched pit
stop and a puncture. Hamilton was poorly served in the last race and
had 3 podiums before that. Everybody else has been more up and down
performance wise - so far.
> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace' since the season opener.
> They seem to be going backwards..
they never went forward...they never had the impressive race pace that distinguished them from the others...full tank they are slow as balls
On Apr 23, 10:38 am, CatharticF1 <rasf1pos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace' since the season opener.
> They seem to be going backwards..
No not backwards at all. The Macca is still the benchmark.
As I said in my preview, the Macca was quick enough initially with
heavy fuel but tapered off rather quickly, that was a circuit thing
*and* the lower track temps, almost 10 degrees lower on Sunday added
to the problem. Macca will be there or there abouts in Spain.
CatharticF1 wrote:
> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have
> any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided
> Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the
> championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now
> that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace'
> since the season opener.
> They seem to be going backwards..
Are Mercedes going backwards since last weekend?
The cars have different strengths and weaknesses but the biggest truth
is that unless you have a perfect understanding of the tyres it's hit
and miss whether you will extract the speed from the car. This is one
of the reasons we have heard so much less, AFAIAC, about the cars
aero...everything at the moment is secondary to being able to switch on
and manage the tyres.
Bigbird wrote:
> The cars have different strengths and weaknesses but the biggest truth
> is that unless you have a perfect understanding of the tyres it's hit
> and miss whether you will extract the speed from the car. This is one
> of the reasons we have heard so much less, AFAIAC, about the cars
> aero...everything at the moment is secondary to being able to switch on
> and manage the tyres.
Indeed. Tyres are the reason the power balance has changed from race
to race.
Four winners from four teams. Everything is still very open. Someone
in another forum noted that Lotus seems to be the best team on full
tanks (and they also test on friday without using much DRS -
simulating the race - while others use it more around the track).
With Mugello tests and Barcelona coming up, I think we might see some
settling in the situation. Some problems will no doubt be solved. But
like someone said, McLaren has so far been the most consistent team
pace wise, but various other issues have denied them the results they
otherwise would have been capable of grabbing.
> > At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have
> > any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided
> > Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the
> > championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now
> > that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace'
> > since the season opener.
> > They seem to be going backwards..
> Are Mercedes going backwards since last weekend?
> The cars have different strengths and weaknesses but the biggest truth
> is that unless you have a perfect understanding of the tyres it's hit
> and miss whether you will extract the speed from the car. This is one
> of the reasons we have heard so much less, AFAIAC, about the cars
> aero...everything at the moment is secondary to being able to switch on
> and manage the tyres.
Sadly, that means most cars are only truly competitive for 10/15 laps in every race. The rest of the time, they're marking time, waiting for the 'best' time to change tyres, hoping to fuck they gain some slight advantage for a couple of laps over the other cars. Get it wrong and you become the rabbit in the race.
This article by Gary Anderson is interesting, coming from a true insider
"...It was also interesting to hear Mercedes' Michael Schumacher complain about the Pirelli tyres.
He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access..."
>>> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have
>>> any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided
>>> Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the
>>> championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now
>>> that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace'
>>> since the season opener.
>>> They seem to be going backwards..
>> Are Mercedes going backwards since last weekend?
>> The cars have different strengths and weaknesses but the biggest truth
>> is that unless you have a perfect understanding of the tyres it's hit
>> and miss whether you will extract the speed from the car. This is one
>> of the reasons we have heard so much less, AFAIAC, about the cars
>> aero...everything at the moment is secondary to being able to switch on
>> and manage the tyres.
> Sadly, that means most cars are only truly competitive for 10/15 laps in
> every race. The rest of the time, they're marking time, waiting for the
> 'best' time to change tyres, hoping to fuck they gain some slight
> advantage for a couple of laps over the other cars. Get it wrong and
> you become the rabbit in the race.
> This article by Gary Anderson is interesting, coming from a true insider
> "...It was also interesting to hear Mercedes' Michael Schumacher
> complain about the Pirelli tyres.
> He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after
> your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
> When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early
> 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and
> Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
> They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them
> to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative
> of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
> It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around,
> because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the
> working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which
> nobody else had access..."
although i agree that schumacher is overrated, opportunistic piece of crap (not entirely his fault, just his bullshit on track in duels), the point of a racing driver is NOT "looking after the damn tires", but its rather going all out and actually racing
On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:11:27 PM UTC+10, RzR wrote:
> On 23.4.2012. 23:56, Timmy wrote:
> > Bigbird wrote ...
> >> CatharticF1 wrote:
> >>> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have
> >>> any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided
> >>> Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the
> >>> championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now
> >>> that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace'
> >>> since the season opener.
> >>> They seem to be going backwards..
> >> Are Mercedes going backwards since last weekend?
> >> The cars have different strengths and weaknesses but the biggest truth
> >> is that unless you have a perfect understanding of the tyres it's hit
> >> and miss whether you will extract the speed from the car. This is one
> >> of the reasons we have heard so much less, AFAIAC, about the cars
> >> aero...everything at the moment is secondary to being able to switch on
> >> and manage the tyres.
> > Sadly, that means most cars are only truly competitive for 10/15 laps in
> > every race. The rest of the time, they're marking time, waiting for the
> > 'best' time to change tyres, hoping to fuck they gain some slight
> > advantage for a couple of laps over the other cars. Get it wrong and
> > you become the rabbit in the race.
> > This article by Gary Anderson is interesting, coming from a true insider
> > "...It was also interesting to hear Mercedes' Michael Schumacher
> > complain about the Pirelli tyres.
> > He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after
> > your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
> > When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early
> > 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and
> > Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
> > They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them
> > to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative
> > of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
> > It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around,
> > because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the
> > working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which
> > nobody else had access..."
> although i agree that schumacher is overrated, opportunistic piece of > crap (not entirely his fault, just his bullshit on track in duels), the > point of a racing driver is NOT "looking after the damn tires", but its > rather going all out and actually racing
On Apr 24, 10:11 am, RzR <2r4z...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the
> point of a racing driver is NOT "looking after the damn tires", but its
> rather going all out and actually racing
'Twas ever thus. To finish first, first you must finish. Drivers have
always had to look after the car, watch their tyres, keep an eye on
fuel, not cook the brakes and so on - except, possibly, during the re-
fuelling, no tyre restriction era in the 90s. It's long been part of
the game.
> On Apr 24, 10:11 am, RzR<2r4z...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> the
>> point of a racing driver is NOT "looking after the damn tires", but its
>> rather going all out and actually racing
> 'Twas ever thus. To finish first, first you must finish. Drivers have
> always had to look after the car, watch their tyres, keep an eye on
> fuel, not cook the brakes and so on - except, possibly, during the re-
> fuelling, no tyre restriction era in the 90s. It's long been part of
> the game.
>On Apr 23, 2:38 am, CatharticF1 <rasf1pos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> At season start they looked the team to beat, but Lewis didn't have >>any better pace in the last stint than Alonso in the much derided >>Ferrari and Button wasn't much better. I was quite expecting the >>championship to be between Lewis and Jenson, but it occurs to me now >>that expectations aside, McLaren haven't had 'race winning pace' since >>the season opener.
>> They seem to be going backwards..
>I think there is podium or better pace in the cars and drivers, it's
>strategic calls and pit work that are letting them down. The McLaren
>is the only car that's had good pace in every race so far. Now that
>might mean that it's the only car that's worked in every set of
>conditions, or it might mean that they understood their car better and
>faster than the other teams who are now catching up.
>The last two races Button has been well placed for a charge late in
>the race, and looked to have the speed to do something with it, but
>had the rug pulled from underneath him by, respectively, a botched pit
>stop and a puncture. Hamilton was poorly served in the last race and
>had 3 podiums before that. Everybody else has been more up and down
>performance wise - so far.
Apart from Webber, who has been dramatically consistent.
On the subject of inconsistency, we have a good chance - if Kimi can hold it together - of starting the season with five different teams winning the first five races; and even if not, if Lewis, Mark, Schumi or... OK, not Massa!.. it would still be five different drivers out of five.
When was the last time that happened?
-- Richard Miller
