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Average finish position Vs points

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CatharticF1

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Dec 13, 2009, 11:13:55 PM12/13/09
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Brian is most likely to help here, but I'm curious to see the average
finishing position used as an alternative means of determining the WDC.

I'd suggest considering a non classification as coming last (so all drivers
not finishing is classified 20th in a 20 car starting field)

My gut feeling is that this will overly reward a driver with good car
reliability and consistent midfield runners.

--
CatharticF1

"What you thought was freedom is just greed."

Patrick Texier

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Dec 18, 2009, 10:30:08 AM12/18/09
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On 14 Dec 2009 15:13:55 +1100, CatharticF1 wrote:

> Brian is most likely to help here, but I'm curious to see the average
> finishing position used as an alternative means of determining the WDC.
>
> I'd suggest considering a non classification as coming last (so all drivers
> not finishing is classified 20th in a 20 car starting field)

For 2009, 20 starters unless Hungary (Massa) and Japan (Glock):

driver pl
-------------------- -------
1. Jenson Button 4.5294
2. Rubens Barrichello 5.4706
3. Sebastian Vettel 7.1765
4. Mark Webber 7.4118
5. Kamui Kobayashi 7.5000
6. Timo Glock 7.8571
7. Nico Rosberg 8.4706
8. Kimi R锟絠kk锟絥en 8.6471
9. Felipe Massa 9.5556
10. Lewis Hamilton 9.8235
11. Fernando Alonso 10.1765
12. Nick Heidfeld 10.7059
13. Jarno Trulli 11.0000
14. Heikki Kovaleinen 11.8235
15. Robert Kubica 12.0588
16. Giancarlo Fisichella 12.3529 [Force India 12.5000 Ferrari 12.0000]
17. S锟絙astien Bourdais 14.2222
18. Kazuki Nakajima 14.2353
19. Nelson Angelo Piquet 14.4000
20. Vitantonio Liuzzi 14.8000
21. S锟絙astien Buemi 14.8235
22. Adrian Sutil 15.0588
23. Luca Badoer 15.5000
24. Romain Grosjean 16.7143
25. Jaime jr Alguersuari 18.0000

================= SQL ===============================
select
concat(PilPrenom, " ",PilParticule, PilNom) as driver,
avg(sr.place) as pl from
(select r1.ResPilote as pil, r1.ResCodeGp as gp,
if( r1.ResPlace < 25,
r1.ResPlace,
if((r1.ResCodeGp = 813) or (r1.ResCodegp = 818), 19, 20)) as place
from result as r1
where (r1.ResCodeGp between 804 and 820)
and r1.ResPlace <= 170
order by r1.ResPilote, r1.ResCodeGp
)
as sr
left join pilotes on PilCode = sr.pil
group by sr.pil
order by pl;
====================================================

I have average race positions using lap charts:

+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Position | Driver | Car | # |
|----------+----------------------+-------------+-----|
| 4.1039 | Sebastian Vettel | Red Bull | 15 |
| 4.3824 | Jenson Button | Brawn | 22 |
| 5.3019 | Rubens Barrichello | Brawn | 23 |
| 6.2544 | Mark Webber | Red Bull | 14 |
| 6.6055 | Felipe Massa | Ferrari | 3 |
| 6.7813 | Kimi R锟絠kk锟絥en | Ferrari | 4 |
| 7.2625 | Nico Rosberg | Williams | 16 |
| 7.9048 | Kamui Kobayashi | Toyota | 10 |
| 7.9646 | Lewis Hamilton | McLaren | 1 |
| 9.0165 | Heikki Kovaleinen | McLaren | 2 |
| 9.1008 | Fernando Alonso | Renault | 7 |
| 9.3985 | Jarno Trulli | Toyota | 9 |
| 10.1412 | Robert Kubica | BMW | 5 |
| 10.2243 | Timo Glock | Toyota | 10 |
| 11.1736 | Nick Heidfeld | BMW | 6 |
| 11.7813 | Kazuki Nakajima | Williams | 17 |
| 11.8031 | Giancarlo Fisichella | Force India | 21 |
| 12.5380 | Nelson Angelo Piquet | Renault | 8 |
| 13.1546 | S锟絙astien Buemi | Toro Rosso | 12 |
| 13.4110 | Giancarlo Fisichella | Ferrari | 3 |
| 13.6803 | Adrian Sutil | Force India | 20 |
| 13.8168 | Vitantonio Liuzzi | Force India | 21 |
| 14.0740 | S锟絙astien Bourdais | Toro Rosso | 11 |
| 15.1273 | Jaime Alguersuari jr | Toro Rosso | 11 |
| 15.2500 | Romain Grosjean | Renault | 8 |
| 15.8600 | Luca Badoer | Ferrari | 3 |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
--
Patrick Texier

vim:syntax=mail:ai:ts=4:et:tw=72

Bob Dubery

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Dec 18, 2009, 11:25:56 AM12/18/09
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On Dec 18, 5:30 pm, Patrick Texier <p.tex...@alussinan.org> wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2009 15:13:55 +1100, CatharticF1 wrote:
>
> > Brian is most likely to help here, but I'm curious to see the average
> > finishing position used as an alternative means of determining the WDC.
>
> > I'd suggest considering a non classification as coming last (so all drivers
> > not finishing is classified 20th in a 20 car starting field)
>
> For 2009, 20 starters unless Hungary (Massa) and Japan (Glock):
>
>    driver                   pl  
>    --------------------   -------
>  1. Jenson Button          4.5294
>  2. Rubens Barrichello     5.4706
>  3. Sebastian Vettel       7.1765
>  4. Mark Webber            7.4118
>  5. Kamui Kobayashi        7.5000

And there's the problem. You have to take number of races into
consideration too.

Chad

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Dec 19, 2009, 1:37:12 AM12/19/09
to

Interesting stuff Patrick.

It sure makes Jaime Alguersuari look bad! (worse than I thought he went
anyway)

--
Chad


Claude

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Dec 19, 2009, 1:34:48 AM12/19/09
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"Bob Dubery" <mega...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c0e3d17-e36c-4b77...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

>And there's the problem. You have to take number of races into
>consideration too.

Not really a problem - same issue crops up time and again in research
projects. Just set a reasonable minimum number of races to be eligible for
inclusion, say at least 10


Patrick Texier

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Dec 18, 2009, 1:25:49 PM12/18/09
to
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:25:56 -0800 (PST), Bob Dubery wrote:

> And there's the problem. You have to take number of races into
> consideration too.

Like European Championship 1935-1938 (and original 1939 but not used at
end) :

1 - 1st
2 - 2nd
3 - 3rd
4 - others with over 75% of race distance
5 - " 50% "
6 - " 25% "
7 - others starters.
8 - did not start.

CatharticF1

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Dec 20, 2009, 6:18:02 PM12/20/09
to
Patrick Texier <p.te...@alussinan.org> wrote in
news:hggams.3...@genindre.org:

> On 14 Dec 2009 15:13:55 +1100, CatharticF1 wrote:
>
>> Brian is most likely to help here, but I'm curious to see the average
>> finishing position used as an alternative means of determining the
>> WDC.
>>
>> I'd suggest considering a non classification as coming last (so all
>> drivers not finishing is classified 20th in a 20 car starting field)
>
> For 2009, 20 starters unless Hungary (Massa) and Japan (Glock):
>
> driver pl
> -------------------- -------
> 1. Jenson Button 4.5294
> 2. Rubens Barrichello 5.4706
> 3. Sebastian Vettel 7.1765
> 4. Mark Webber 7.4118
> 5. Kamui Kobayashi 7.5000
> 6. Timo Glock 7.8571
> 7. Nico Rosberg 8.4706

> 8. Kimi R�ｿｽikk�ｿｽnen 8.6471


> 9. Felipe Massa 9.5556
> 10. Lewis Hamilton 9.8235
> 11. Fernando Alonso 10.1765
> 12. Nick Heidfeld 10.7059
> 13. Jarno Trulli 11.0000
> 14. Heikki Kovaleinen 11.8235
> 15. Robert Kubica 12.0588
> 16. Giancarlo Fisichella 12.3529 [Force India 12.5000 Ferrari

> 12.0000] 17. S�ｿｽbastien Bourdais 14.2222


> 18. Kazuki Nakajima 14.2353
> 19. Nelson Angelo Piquet 14.4000
> 20. Vitantonio Liuzzi 14.8000

> 21. S�ｿｽbastien Buemi 14.8235

> | 6.7813 | Kimi R�ｿｽikk�ｿｽnen | Ferrari | 4 |


> | 7.2625 | Nico Rosberg | Williams | 16 |
> | 7.9048 | Kamui Kobayashi | Toyota | 10 |
> | 7.9646 | Lewis Hamilton | McLaren | 1 |
> | 9.0165 | Heikki Kovaleinen | McLaren | 2 |
> | 9.1008 | Fernando Alonso | Renault | 7 |
> | 9.3985 | Jarno Trulli | Toyota | 9 |
> | 10.1412 | Robert Kubica | BMW | 5 |
> | 10.2243 | Timo Glock | Toyota | 10 |
> | 11.1736 | Nick Heidfeld | BMW | 6 |
> | 11.7813 | Kazuki Nakajima | Williams | 17 |
> | 11.8031 | Giancarlo Fisichella | Force India | 21 |
> | 12.5380 | Nelson Angelo Piquet | Renault | 8 |

> | 13.1546 | S�ｿｽbastien Buemi | Toro Rosso | 12 |


> | 13.4110 | Giancarlo Fisichella | Ferrari | 3 |
> | 13.6803 | Adrian Sutil | Force India | 20 |
> | 13.8168 | Vitantonio Liuzzi | Force India | 21 |

> | 14.0740 | S�ｿｽbastien Bourdais | Toro Rosso | 11 |


> | 15.1273 | Jaime Alguersuari jr | Toro Rosso | 11 |
> | 15.2500 | Romain Grosjean | Renault | 8 | 15.8600 |
> | Luca Badoer | Ferrari | 3 |
> | +-----------------------------------------------------+

Excellent!

Thanks Patrick.

The surprises of the average race finishing were those who raced few races
and the advantage of consistency (DNFs are very costly). On balance that
looks enough to rule it out for my preferences of 'fairness'.

Lewis and Kimi should be above Timo and Nico imo.

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