HAL taking over
build
Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
handbrake worked.
Considering the thread a few weeks back I thought you may be
interested.
beers,
build
build
Chad
Wow that is an interesting report. I think a lot of people assumed that cop
who was killed with his family must have been a pretty big dufus to not just
turn the ignition off.
Wonder why that doesnt work in these cases?
--
Chad
build
"Open the pod bay doors HAL"
Bob Dubery
I can't speak as regards this case, but there are now cars in which
there are no keys. Consider some Renault models where you get a smart
card. It's different from the old key because it doesn't operate a
mechanical switch, it sends instructions to a CPU which then starts
the car. And once the car is started you can pull the smart card out
and stick it in your pocket. Sure there are buttons on the smart card
to stop the engine, but they too send a signal to a CPU which is
supposed to act on that signal by stopping the engine.
If the CPU goes crazy....
DAVe
Ever since the first one I have been against computers in cars and
aircraft. I hate drive by and fly by wire.
If and when I am forced to go back to the states I hope to buy an old
Camaro where the only electronic components will be cdi ignition and a
radio.
Devany
And on the radio will be static, because the rest of the world is
listening to mp3s.
Devany
If you take the ignition key out, or switch it off, the steering lock
comes on... makes it hard to turn.
(Happened to a friend of mine while he was being towed.)
TS02_05champ
Compressed garbage for people with tin ears.
News
Steering lock only engages with the key OUT.
Just turning it OFF, turns it OFF.
Wretched Excess
> > > Wonder why that doesnt work in these cases?
>
> Ever since the first one I have been against computers in cars and
> aircraft. I hate drive by and fly by wire.
>
> If and when I am forced to go back to the states I hope to buy an old
> Camaro where the only electronic components will be cdi ignition and a
> radio.-
A Jackie Stewart reminiscence, from many years back, when he was a
Ford consultant. De Thomaso, being a Ford sideline, debuted a new (=
same old) Pantera, and Jackie was cruising it through Monaco in the
summer sun, when the electrics fried. Car stopped. Jackie found that
the ELECTRIC DOOR LOCKS were frozen, and he had to sit there broiling
thoroughly, in full public view, in the middle of the packed street,
until a De Thomaso mechanic took a long long time to fiddle the doors
open from the outside.
(While we're on JS's professional expectations, when he was doing
promotion for a petrol company, he did an informal early morning "drop-
in" at a newly-opened gas station ---- one staffer was shaving, braces
down, in the main window, and the other was sitting round the side, on
a crate, having a fag. The wee scot had a wee word.)
DAVe
> DAVe wrote:
> > If and when I am forced to go back to the states I hope to buy an old
> > Camaro where the only electronic components will be cdi ignition and a
> > radio.
>
> And on the radio will be static, because the rest of the world is
> listening to mp3s.
There will always be enough of us Luddites around for old tech to
survive.
News
...and slap another 8-track into the dash.
Frank Adam
wrote:
Oh yeah, nothing like the joy of a stuck accelerator cable or linkage.
Like that never happened to me..
I've seen a lot more cars on the side of the road with the bonnet up
in the '70s than these days.
There was also a story in the last couple of days about some washing
machines being recalled because water on the lid could seep under the
control panel and electrify the lid. That part runs on low voltage so
it's just a tingle, but i guess we better go back to washing by hand
in the bathtub.
No wait, i once slipped and banged my head on the bathtub and the Doc
said it is a very common accident with kids. So make that washing in
the river.. actually no, make it a lake, rivers can have slippery
rocks. And don't take the car, you could have a hydraulic fault and
drive straight in and drown ! Ride a horse.
I'd like to say that paranoia should be banned, but i'm scared people
might come after me. ;-)
--
Regards, Frank
Frank Adam
>>>
>>
>> If you take the ignition key out, or switch it off, the steering lock
>> comes on... makes it hard to turn.
>>
>> (Happened to a friend of mine while he was being towed.)
>
>
>Steering lock only engages with the key OUT.
>
>Just turning it OFF, turns it OFF.
>
Apparently the CPU got fried somehow and the engine just simply didn't
quit. The model had a recall of the cruise control module previously,
but this guy didn't know about it.
It is kinda puzzling to me how the CPU could fry in such way that the
ignition can't be cut and the gears won't change at all. If that is
true, a rethink of what the key cuts is in order.
--
Regards, Frank
build
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:04:20 -0800 (PST), DAVe <smalleys...@gmail.com>
> >If and when I am forced to go back to the states I hope to buy an old
> >Camaro where the only electronic components will be cdi ignition and a
> >radio.
>
> Oh yeah, nothing like the joy of a stuck accelerator cable or linkage.
> Like that never happened to me..
> I've seen a lot more cars on the side of the road with the bonnet up
> in the '70s than these days.
> I'd like to say that paranoia should be banned, but i'm scared people
> might come after me. ;-)
> --
> Regards, Frank
Any car or motorcycle is a public wank. Denying that is like denying
that you ever had a solo sexual experience. Driving a race car is a
bigger wank. But, we all do it and I would rather drive an e-type V12
roadster or a 1970 firebird or ride my 1949 Ariel as those wanks are
better than yours. Gnah, ngah.
I'm comin ;-)
beers,
build
DAVe
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:04:20 -0800 (PST), DAVe <smalleys...@gmail.com>
> >If and when I am forced to go back to the states I hope to buy an old
> >Camaro where the only electronic components will be cdi ignition and a
> >radio.
>
> Oh yeah, nothing like the joy of a stuck accelerator cable or linkage.
I had that happen twice. Once on a small bike with no key had to kick
the spark plug cap off. One in my 67 Buick Special I merely turned off
the key.
The problem is when you don't have a way to shut off the motor as is
the case with the new fully computer controlled cars.
Ray O'Hara
"Devany" <noone@thisaddress> wrote in message
news:v76dnTJQ7PgwkbXW...@bt.com...
MP3s are are doomed, flac. and shn. files are taking over.
Chad
A mandatory emergency cut-of button would be my guess.
--
Chad
CatharticF1
Exactly - can you imagine a computer with no way of disconnecting the
power?
--
CatharticF1
"What you thought was freedom is just greed."
Chad
Kinda glad I can't justify buying a new car now. Let the affulent be the
guinea pigs for once. :-)
--
Chad
CatharticF1
@h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Interview with the driver here:
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/terrifying-ordeal-resembles-
speed/20091215-ktv8.html
Ford Explorer apparently..
Bigbird
How to cut yourself off form the world.
--
Bigbird
#
You'll be laughing when I'm dead!
Frank Adam
wrote:
No, bloody hell, we'd have Rasf on all day ! ;)
That seems to be exactly what happened to this guy.
On my new Commode what strcuk me(and almost put me off) was the huge
red hazzard switch in the middle of the dash/console. I mean it's good
that it is nice and easy to punch as i plow into a semi-trailer with a
stuck throttle, but hm... it kinda sends a message "you will need this
often".
--
Regards, Frank
APLer
news:Xns9CE39CC333290r...@203.26.24.228:
I get a mental image of someone crawling on the hood ala the kid trying
to get the shells in Mad Max.
APLer
news:Xns9CE3A30771483r...@203.26.24.228:
> build <bui...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:64ccf1d8-edb8-4bf6-ad0d-59fcf4b6fb25
> @h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> or is it VIKI?
>>
>> Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
>> the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
>> Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
>> escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
>> handbrake worked.
>>
>> Considering the thread a few weeks back I thought you may be
>> interested.
>>
>> beers,
>> build
>
> Interview with the driver here:
>
> http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/terrifying-ordeal-resemble
> s- speed/20091215-ktv8.html
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y8w353u
>
> Ford Explorer apparently..
>
Take that Toyota haters.
APLer
news:v76dnTJQ7PgwkbXW...@bt.com:
White noise it's called. Calms the nerves it does. If you listen to it
carefully enough, you can hear the universe being created - no bull. And
you don't get rude interuptions from some microcephalic with a "golden
throat".
Mike
> or is it VIKI?
>
> Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
> the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
> Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
> escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
> handbrake worked.
>
> Considering the thread a few weeks back I thought you may be
> interested.
>
> beers,
> build
Mechanic " Looks like you lost a lot of fluid"
Driver "Wouldn't you?"
build
ROFLMAO
10/10
NM
Wot Ariel do you have? I had a red hunter.
Wretched Excess
> Oh yeah, nothing like the joy of a stuck accelerator cable or linkage.
> Like that never happened to me..
> I've seen a lot more cars on the side of the road with the bonnet up
> in the '70s than these days.
>
Right; I had a 1971 Plymouth Satellite Sebring coupe, nice crackly
383 V-8, and although I noticed it getting distinctly jumpy on the
gas, I never looked enough to spot a broken engine mount. So, one day
hanging a tight left at the lights, I gassed it hard, and the motor
reared up enough to keep the throttle open ---- I still can't remember
how I got it to the side of the road and stopped. Later that day I
asked a buddy to look under the hood while I revved it, and he jumped
back with a scream ---- problem identified.
Wretched Excess
> I had that happen twice. Once on a small bike with no key had to kick
> the spark plug cap off.
Neighbour in the UK, about 50 years ago, throttle cable on his BSA
frayed and snapped one night on his way home. Friendly garage did a
very quick fix-it ----- soldered the frayed ends together, but
resulted in enough overlap that the gas was about half-way open. So,
kick-start, WRAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHH, one stamp-snarl-change into 2nd, and
he rode home faster than he wanted, on a mix of clutch and brake
fudging. Said it was fun for about 10 seconds, then not fun at all.
Bigbird
With all "those wanks" I'm guessing biological...with softener.
--
Bigbird
#
You'll be laughing when I'm dead!
build
> NM wrote:
> > > Any car or motorcycle is a public wank. Denying that is like denying
> > > that you ever had a solo sexual experience. Driving a race car is a
> > > bigger wank. But, we all do it and I would rather drive an e-type
> > > V12 roadster or a 1970 firebird or ride my 1949 Ariel as those
> > > wanks are better than yours. Gnah, ngah.
> > Wot Ariel do you have? I had a red hunter.
>
> With all "those wanks" I'm guessing biological...with softener.
>
> --
> Bigbird
Hmmm, I guess you do not have any wank toys to brag about, that's a
shame.
beers,
build
Bigbird
I have a sense of humour. I guess not having one leaves you in the dark
with your "pure clean" tidy whities. ;)
Less beers, please. :)
--
Bigbird
#
You'll be laughing when I'm dead!
build
> build wrote:
> > Hmmm, I guess you do not have any wank toys to brag about, that's a
> > shame.
> > beers,
> > build
> I have a sense of humour. I guess not having one leaves you in the dark
> with your "pure clean" tidy whities. ;)
> Bigbird
ROFL, you just can't admit you do not have toys? I must admit I was
guessing but then you confirm it. C'mon mate you *need* a life, go get
a toy.
beers and lots of them,
build
Bigbird
> On Dec 17, 7:13�pm, "Bigbird" <Bigbird.usenetNOS...@Gmail.com> wrote:
> > build wrote:
> > > Hmmm, I guess you do not have any wank toys to brag about, that's
> > > a shame.
> > > beers,
> > > build
>
> > I have a sense of humour. I guess not having one leaves you in the
> > dark with your "pure clean" tidy whities. ;)
> > Bigbird
>
> ROFL, you just can't admit you do not have toys? I must admit I was
> guessing but then you confirm it. C'mon mate you need a life, go get
> a toy.
>
> beers and lots of them,
As if your posts weren't evidence enough.
Ian Rawlings
> or is it VIKI?
>
> Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
> the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
> Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
> escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
> handbrake worked.
His brakes weren't enough to stall the engine? I've not had one yet that
didn't have brakes that could out-do the engine in any gear. It'd have to
be a fairly major goof to have made a car that can have all that fail at
once. Sure it's not just another shaggy dog story?
--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/
Bob Dubery
> On 2009-12-15, build <bui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > or is it VIKI?
>
> > Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
> > the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
> > Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
> > escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
> > handbrake worked.
>
> His brakes weren't enough to stall the engine? I've not had one yet that
> didn't have brakes that could out-do the engine in any gear. It'd have to
> be a fairly major goof to have made a car that can have all that fail at
> once. Sure it's not just another shaggy dog story?
I think it possible that something went haywire in the electronics so
that the cruise control couldn't be overwritten, but I can't see what
would prevent the driver knocking the car out of gear.
Chad
I heard the guy in a radio interview say that the key and gear lever would
not move and the brakes only slowed it down to 80kph from the cruise control
speed of 100. He reckons the pedal wouldn't go any further.
The weird thing was it actually sounded like he managed to stop it in the
end by jamming on the handbrake then stomping the brakes as hard as he
could. No mention of scraping against anything.
So probably a little bit over stated about not being able to stop.
--
Chad
Bob Dubery
> I heard the guy in a radio interview say that the key and gear lever would
> not move
That's interesting. I wonder what it was. I can see how with a flappy
paddle box the CPUs could thwart a gear change. I can't see it with a
conventional manual box. Automatic? Hmmmmm....
> and the brakes only slowed it down to 80kph from the cruise control
> speed of 100. He reckons the pedal wouldn't go any further.
Well yes. You stand on the brakes and the engine keeps on delivering
power to the wheels then something has to give - and most likely it'll
be the brakes eventually.
Thinks: What would ABS do? What if the ABS is controlled by the same
CPUs?
Ian Rawlings
> I heard the guy in a radio interview say that the key and gear lever would
> not move and the brakes only slowed it down to 80kph from the cruise control
> speed of 100. He reckons the pedal wouldn't go any further.
This sounds like a case we had in the UK, the guy in question got
prosecuted for dangerous driving in the end, despite claiming that the car
"ran away with him" and that he couldn't slow it down.
Personally I think it's wildly improbable that the keys should fail, the
cruise control should fail, the gearstick would get stuck, the handbrake
wouldn't work and the brakes would be ineffective, all suddenly failing at
the same time.
Also, anyone who's trodden on the brakes would know that the idea of
functioning brakes only being able to scrub 20KPH off the speed of the car
is daft, so he'd have to have been suffering from brake failure as well as
all the rest.
I'd put money on him being a twat.
Chad
> On Dec 19, 8:08 am, "Chad" <cbs...@safemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I heard the guy in a radio interview say that the key and gear lever
>> would not move
> That's interesting. I wonder what it was. I can see how with a flappy
> paddle box the CPUs could thwart a gear change. I can't see it with a
> conventional manual box. Automatic? Hmmmmm....
>
It was a T-Bar auto.
A Nissan 4wd auto I drove recently had this annoying electronic lock on the
T-Bar that stopped it moving out of Park unless your foot was quite firmly
on the brake pedal.
Maybe it's a similar feature to that.
Bigbird
> On 2009-12-19, Chad <cbs...@safemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I heard the guy in a radio interview say that the key and gear
> > lever would not move and the brakes only slowed it down to 80kph
> > from the cruise control speed of 100. He reckons the pedal wouldn't
> > go any further.
>
> This sounds like a case we had in the UK, the guy in question got
> prosecuted for dangerous driving in the end, despite claiming that
> the car "ran away with him" and that he couldn't slow it down.
>
> Personally I think it's wildly improbable that the keys should fail,
> the cruise control should fail, the gearstick would get stuck, the
> handbrake wouldn't work and the brakes would be ineffective, all
> suddenly failing at the same time.
Did you consider the inter relationship?
Did the brakes or the handbrake really fail or were they simply
ineffective in the circumstances?
Was the way the were applied responsible for a lack of efficiency? I am
thinking that brake fade can occur pretty quickly. If the brakes were
tentatively applied build up in heat and resultant fade could occur
before they are fully applied, no?
Was it an manual or automatic? I don't know about automatics. Would it
normally be easy to shift into neutral while the accelerator is fully
applied. I've only driven a few but I recall you having to apply the
brake in order to put the car in reverse. Could a similar safeguard
have caused a problem.
Just saying it may not be as open and shut as you suppose.
>
> Also, anyone who's trodden on the brakes would know that the idea of
> functioning brakes only being able to scrub 20KPH off the speed of
> the car is daft, so he'd have to have been suffering from brake
> failure as well as all the rest.
>
> I'd put money on him being a twat.
I wouldn't take the bet. ;)
Ian Rawlings
> Did you consider the inter relationship?
Yes I did, I don't totally rule out the possibility that everything would
be locked out by the cruise control malfunction, but that would have to be
a chronically poor, unsafe car design for that to happen. Also I doubt
very much indeed you'd get brake fade scrubbing off 20KPH of speed in a
car with a runaway engine, or that someone would sit there tentatively
applying the brakes on a runaway car. Also no automatic I've driven yet
(not that many admittedly) has had a lock-out on anything other than
moving between park or reverse, the rest can be selected on the fly
including neutral.
A car with an electronic handbrake could have problems I suppose, but the
brakes on a modern car are invariably very good and I've still yet to find
one where the engine could beat the brakes in any gear, let alone a
reasonably high gear.
My money's still on him being a twat, and getting arrested.
Chad
> On 2009-12-19, Bigbird <Bigbird.us...@Gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you consider the inter relationship?
>
> Yes I did, I don't totally rule out the possibility that everything
> would be locked out by the cruise control malfunction, but that would
> have to be a chronically poor, unsafe car design for that to happen.
> Also I doubt very much indeed you'd get brake fade scrubbing off
> 20KPH of speed in a car with a runaway engine, or that someone would
> sit there tentatively applying the brakes on a runaway car. Also no
> automatic I've driven yet (not that many admittedly) has had a
> lock-out on anything other than moving between park or reverse, the
> rest can be selected on the fly including neutral.
>
> A car with an electronic handbrake could have problems I suppose, but
> the brakes on a modern car are invariably very good and I've still
> yet to find one where the engine could beat the brakes in any gear,
> let alone a reasonably high gear.
>
> My money's still on him being a twat, and getting arrested.
I don't think he will end up arrested. They played part of his police call
and the guy thought he was going to die. (or faked it well) He was only in
his early 20s and sounded like a mild mannered type btw.
I think you and BB are both on the right track though, when he finally
panicked, pulled on the handbrake (apparently for the first time) and
stomped on the brakes hard, the car did stop, so I'm thinking a bit of dumb
operator syndrome contributed to the 50 minute ride myself.
I bet Ford would be making press releases by now if it was an obvious lie as
well.
--
Chad
Frank Adam
<new...@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Bigbird <Bigbird.us...@Gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you consider the inter relationship?
>
>Yes I did, I don't totally rule out the possibility that everything would
>be locked out by the cruise control malfunction, but that would have to be
>a chronically poor, unsafe car design for that to happen. Also I doubt
>very much indeed you'd get brake fade scrubbing off 20KPH of speed in a
>car with a runaway engine, or that someone would sit there tentatively
>applying the brakes on a runaway car. Also no automatic I've driven yet
>(not that many admittedly) has had a lock-out on anything other than
>moving between park or reverse, the rest can be selected on the fly
>including neutral.
>
Ian, the Ford Territory has sequential gearbox, IOW, no linkages but
fly by wire. So if the CPU locked itself into a corner, the automatic
and the throttle would be always at optimum to maintain the
pre-selected speed.
I'm sure you've gone into the odd whoops loop in your C days that you
couldn't do anything through the UI, yet your sound or graphics card
was stuck in it's own loop ? And you had to reboot to get out of it.
That is basically what is being said happened to this car. The
computer apparently crashed, but the cruise module remained active.
I don't know enough(make that nothing) about the architecture of ECUs
in cars, but i do know enough about programming that such things can
indeed happen.
>A car with an electronic handbrake could have problems I suppose, but the
>brakes on a modern car are invariably very good and I've still yet to find
>one where the engine could beat the brakes in any gear, let alone a
>reasonably high gear.
>
How often have you tried to pull up a 2 Tonne vehicle travelling at
100 clicks with a locked cruise control and a 4L 380Nm
engine that has the auto box's gear control on its side ?
I'd say in that panic situation, it would be dead easy to cook the
brakes and with an engine not giving up, from there on you've lost the
fight.
IMO, that's what happened to the guy, then after a while of driving
on, his brakes came back and with the handbrake applied, he didn't
boil the brake fluid as much as he did when he just braked with the
foot.
>My money's still on him being a twat, and getting arrested.
>
Well, he is a Queenslander, so the former goes without saying. ;-)
However, he spent a long time with the 000 emergency crew on the
phone. Those people tend to pick up on hoaxes, then he spent quality
time with street cops, again, they are not easy to throw. Then he
spent some more time being treated for shock in hospital and doctors
tend to have a clue too. None saw it fit so far to make any statement
contrary to it just being a wild ride.
So i doubt that it was a hoax, it is possible that he was just
overcome by panic and not everything went the way it is being recalled
by him, but in theory it is certainly possible that he was up shit
creek.
If it turns out to be a publicity stunt, he should be getting the next
Oscar.
--
Regards, Frank
Ian Rawlings
> Ian, the Ford Territory has sequential gearbox, IOW, no linkages but
> fly by wire. So if the CPU locked itself into a corner, the automatic
> and the throttle would be always at optimum to maintain the
> pre-selected speed.
Brakes would still work though..
> I'm sure you've gone into the odd whoops loop in your C days that you
> couldn't do anything through the UI, yet your sound or graphics card
> was stuck in it's own loop ? And you had to reboot to get out of it.
Nah, I never programmed under Windows ;-)
> That is basically what is being said happened to this car.
Still sounds like a crock of shite, brakes not enough, can't turn it off,
manages to control it well enough not to crash though.
> The
> computer apparently crashed, but the cruise module remained active.
So now we've got a car that's so reliant on a computer that if it fails
it can't be stopped, but somehow it was able to maintain forward motion at
a constant speed? Sounds even more far fetched.. Independent modules
that maintain their functions if the "computer" (whatever that's supposed
to mean) goes down, but the safety features are entirely dependent on the
"computer"? This is media stuff.
> I don't know enough(make that nothing) about the architecture of ECUs
> in cars, but i do know enough about programming that such things can
> indeed happen.
We know computers can crash, that's why you don't rely on them, and auto
manufacturers also know this, fine if it won't start, but they're not
going to build it in a manner that means it's not dependent on "the
computer" to keep moving but is dependent on it to stop. Well, they might
do in the movies or on slow news days I suppose.
> How often have you tried to pull up a 2 Tonne vehicle travelling at
> 100 clicks with a locked cruise control and a 4L 380Nm
> engine that has the auto box's gear control on its side ?
When I put the brakes on on my Defender, the bloody thing stops, engine or
not, the brakes on the rear of my Defender are more powerful than the
brakes on the front of my Esprit.
> However, he spent a long time with the 000 emergency crew on the
> phone. Those people tend to pick up on hoaxes, then he spent quality
> time with street cops, again, they are not easy to throw.
Our twat also phoned the police and whined about the car being out of
control, and claimed to have tried everything etc etc.
> So i doubt that it was a hoax, it is possible that he was just
> overcome by panic and not everything went the way it is being recalled
> by him, but in theory it is certainly possible that he was up shit
> creek.
Either way he's a twat, but my money's still on a dishonest twat who's
going to get arrested.
Berf
> or is it VIKI?
>
> Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
> the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
> Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
> escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
> handbrake worked.
>
> interested.
>
>
HAL from 2001 A Space Odyssey has a birthday coming up.
Depending on whether it's the book HAL or the Kubrick movie HAL.
HAL became operational on 12 January 1997 (1992 in the film).
I first realized that when I received a voice mail from a friend on January 12
1992 telling me that it was HAL's birthday!
According to Wikipedia:
HAL is ranked #13 on a list of greatest film villains of all time on the AFI's
100 Years... 100 Heroes and Villains.
And Winnipeg Canada's Doug Rain who voiced HAL in the movie, never met the
actors in the first movie. I don't know about the second one.
Frank Adam
<new...@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Frank Adam <fa...@notthis.optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Ian, the Ford Territory has sequential gearbox, IOW, no linkages but
>> fly by wire. So if the CPU locked itself into a corner, the automatic
>> and the throttle would be always at optimum to maintain the
>> pre-selected speed.
>
>Brakes would still work though..
>
Not once they are cooked. With the pads and discs overheated you will
feel like you are pushing against a wall, meanwhile your brake fluid
also comes to a boil making that wall feel like reinforced concrete.
Braking performance would be down to maybe 20%, if that. Your engine
could outdo that with a wee smile.
You do know how to do donuts with a rear wheel drive, don't you ? :)
>> I'm sure you've gone into the odd whoops loop in your C days that you
>> couldn't do anything through the UI, yet your sound or graphics card
>> was stuck in it's own loop ? And you had to reboot to get out of it.
>
>Nah, I never programmed under Windows ;-)
>
Heh.. touche. :)
>> That is basically what is being said happened to this car.
>
>Still sounds like a crock of shite, brakes not enough, can't turn it off,
>manages to control it well enough not to crash though.
>
Well, the ignition switch was/is puzzling to me too. But having
thought about it, nowdays there are so many gizmos that the ignition
switch may only send a signal to the ECU to turn off the car instead
off physically cutting power as it used to in my caring days.
If the ECU is in a wild state, such signal may not be processed.
But i'm only guessing.
>> I don't know enough(make that nothing) about the architecture of ECUs
>> in cars, but i do know enough about programming that such things can
>> indeed happen.
>
>We know computers can crash, that's why you don't rely on them, and auto
>manufacturers also know this, fine if it won't start, but they're not
>going to build it in a manner that means it's not dependent on "the
>computer" to keep moving but is dependent on it to stop. Well, they might
>do in the movies or on slow news days I suppose.
>
While manufacturers are pouring in all kinds of goodies, both safety
and gimmicks, there is virtually no standard car with a decent brake
system. Most cars can't do a short series of 30Mph stops without
notable brake fade, they will do a single emergency braking, but you
will feel a lot of fade towards the end of that trip and taking off
again and stopping will feel like you have no brakes. You do of
course, but in relative terms, they're "gone". And ABS adds to that,
since you don'tlock up anymore. It's pad friction all the way.
Not related to this story, but being a brake nut, i've just recently
gone through a lot of brake pad reviews, to see what's hot at the
moment in the industry and to see what brands would be a reasonable
combination of price/performance for my car. Certainly not OEM pads or
rotors. The only thing that was really striking in those readings was
how crap and marginal car brakes are on the average car.
>> How often have you tried to pull up a 2 Tonne vehicle travelling at
>> 100 clicks with a locked cruise control and a 4L 380Nm
>> engine that has the auto box's gear control on its side ?
>
>When I put the brakes on on my Defender, the bloody thing stops, engine or
>not, the brakes on the rear of my Defender are more powerful than the
>brakes on the front of my Esprit.
>
Sure and as soon as you touch the brakes, your cruise control switches
off too. Woohoo.. :)
Ok, go try it. Cruise to 60 MPh, step on the brakes and throttle the
engine. Don't forget, your left foot's job is to stop, your right foot
is now the cruise control trying to maintain your speed. Don't cheat.
Report back. I ain't cooking my brakes for this. :)
>> However, he spent a long time with the 000 emergency crew on the
>> phone. Those people tend to pick up on hoaxes, then he spent quality
>> time with street cops, again, they are not easy to throw.
>
>Our twat also phoned the police and whined about the car being out of
>control, and claimed to have tried everything etc etc.
>
>> So i doubt that it was a hoax, it is possible that he was just
>> overcome by panic and not everything went the way it is being recalled
>> by him, but in theory it is certainly possible that he was up shit
>> creek.
>
>Either way he's a twat, but my money's still on a dishonest twat who's
>going to get arrested.
>
LOL. Either way ? Ok. :)
Eh, we're only guessing as usual. If it turns out to be a hoax i'll
feel like a a bit of a fool, but not as a much as all the people
involved in his ride and subsequent hospital treatment.
So i'm ok with it either way. :)
--
Regards, Frank
Berf
> You do know how to do donuts with a rear wheel drive, don't you ? :)
>
I sure do. I once owned a 1973 Dodge Coronet with a 360 CID engine and
standard tires. What a boat.
It was so light on the rear end that when the gas tank was empty, I could spin
the thing until passengers were ready to vomit from dizziness!
It was also Hell in the snow when the tank was low. Almost no traction at
all.
At times, avoiding donuts with that car was the skill, not knowing how to do
them.
APLer
news:MPG.2596bc0a6...@News.Individual.NET:
One thing that still bugs me is them using a WASP for Dr. Chandra in the
movie version of 2010.
Berf
> >
> One thing that still bugs me is them using a WASP for Dr. Chandra in the
> movie version of 2010.
>
>
Why is that? They used David Carradine to play a Chinese guy in Kung Fu, and
he beat out Bruce Lee!
:)
APLer
news:MPG.25978cb87...@News.Individual.NET:
<tapes down anti-woosh hat with scotch tape left over from tin foil hat
repair>
Well, it *was* the same reason IMHO. Bruce *created* the idea for the
show in the first place and the only reason he didn't play Kwai Chang
Caine was that he was chinese as well. Just as silly for exactly the
same reasons.
~misfit~
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Chad wrote:
> build wrote:
>> or is it VIKI?
>>
>> Tonight on Aus news a bloke had his cruise control lock on. He rang
>> the police and they stepped him through, Throttle, Brakes, Ignition,
>> Transmission and finally handbrake. Nothing worked so under police
>> escort he scraped an island till speed was low enough that the
>> handbrake worked.
>>
>> Considering the thread a few weeks back I thought you may be
>> interested.
>>
>> build
>
> Wow that is an interesting report. I think a lot of people assumed
> that cop who was killed with his family must have been a pretty big
> dufus to not just turn the ignition off.
>
> Wonder why that doesnt work in these cases?
...brings back memories of an idiot mate of a mate who decided to turn his
ignition off and coast down a long fast hill. The twat turned it too far and
locked the steering and then panicked and tried to unlock the steering with
too much pressure on the steering wheel. The front seat passenger finally
sorted it as a corner approached. Car was on the soft shoulder but managed
to regain the road. I was in the back.
For quite a few years now I've really not liked being a passenger in a
car....
--
Shaun.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
Chad
The way you have described some of your exploits behind the wheel, I bet
your friends feel the same way too! :D
--
Chad
Ian Rawlings
> ...brings back memories of an idiot mate of a mate who decided to turn his
> ignition off and coast down a long fast hill. The twat turned it too far and
> locked the steering and then panicked and tried to unlock the steering with
> too much pressure on the steering wheel.
A friend of mine used to regularly turn off his engine when coasting down
long hills, we were teenagers at the time and were showing off our
knowledge of cars with things like that... We were clever, see.
Anyhow, he was showing off with another friend of his in the car and his
mate was chortling about the engine being off, so my friend then decides
to take the keys out of the ignition and chuck them in the back seat..
*click*
He went onto the verge just as a crash barrier began, one of those ones
that rises out of the ground, so he had half the car on top of the crash
barrier and was still doing about 20MPH at the time. The local police had
a good laugh about that one, no-one hurt luckily.
~misfit~
LOL. You do have a point. There was one guy, one night said he who refused
to ever get in a car with me again. (He went back on it later though...)
It was a wet rainy night, a few of us in my Mk II Zephyr, long straight
approaching a right-angle corner, they got to talking about how fast they
could take this corner....
The figures were around 30mph, 35mph.. I said that I'd be able to take it at
50mph easy. Everyone said no way was that possible but this one guy, when I
was commited, started screaming at me to slow down.... I got around the
corner without leaving the road. The back stepped out so far it was close to
full lock (which would have been a spin of course) but I did it, no
over-correcting either. He made me stop there and then and he got out and
walked.
<shrug> Folks knew how I drove, shouldn't have been in my car if he didn't
like it.
Oh! Hehee! There was another guy, I just remembered. I lived on unsealed
roads out in the sticks and, at the time was driving an AP5 Valiant (slant
straight six, 3.7l, great engine). He'd see me go past from his house. He
had quite a good view of quite a bit of the road from his home. I guess he
didn't like adrenaline or something because one day on my way to work he was
walking, car broken down. I stopped and asked if he wanted a lift and he
refused the ride. It was raining too.
Musta been a pussy. I mean, he could see a lot of the road (his house
overlooked the valley) so he must have known that I never ran off the road
(without meaning to, see next point) or hit anything coming in the other
direction. (Always a problem on what is essentially a 1.5 lane unsealed road
that services a lot of farms, hence a lot of stock-trucks and farmers in
four-wheel drives (mainly Toyota Landcruisers in those days) with bull-bars.
Honestly, I don't like being a passenger because, IMO 95% of people can't
drive for shit and it scares me. If I have to be a passenger (and I mean
*have to*, it's been a while, years in fact since I've been passenger
outside of 'just down town') then I take a Valium or three and try to sleep.
There are some nutters out there! ;-)
~misfit~
Lucky indeed.
I read that right? The driver threw the keys on the back seat? 'Cause if
someone had done that to me when I was driving I'd be rather put out.
--
Cheers,
Berf
> There are some nutters out there! ;-)
> --
>
Indeed. I walked up the street today and at the same time was listening to
CBC on the FM radio doing a show on Halleujah. It's origins, everything from
Handel's Messiah to Lenoard Cohen's version. Singing to myself on the MP3
player. Playing "air piano" like Glenn Gould.
I'm confident that with the wind chill at -20 C and whatnot, that I appeared
quite insane humming along as I walked.
But I've got the week off, and that's what I'm up to! :)
On Monday I went and saw "Avatar" in IMAX 3-D.
It's a really shitty plot, but a feast for the eyes.
I strongly suggest it.
James Cameron, the director, is from "The Kap" Kapuskasing Ontario, where the
Koreans test their cars.
It's a small town, but I know three people from Kapuskasing, all are
Francophones. "it's way the f**k up north" from me!
Great movie. He's done a freaking great job.
Best 3-D ever, even better than the IMAX U2 concert.
build
> ~misfit~ wrote
>
> > There are some nutters out there! ;-)
> > --
Berf just confirmed it.
and ... then there is me on air guitar ... even in imagination,
Frampton I am not.
;-)
build
~misfit~
> ~misfit~ wrote
>> There are some nutters out there! ;-)
>>
> listening to CBC on the FM radio doing a show on Halleujah. It's
> origins, everything from Handel's Messiah to Lenoard Cohen's version.
> Singing to myself on the MP3 player. Playing "air piano" like Glenn
> Gould.
Heh! Cool.
> I'm confident that with the wind chill at -20 C and whatnot, that I
> appeared quite insane humming along as I walked.
>
> But I've got the week off, and that's what I'm up to! :)
Your aim for your week off is to appear quite insane? I try to do that for
the whole year (it's not hard...). That way people give you a wide berth
unless they have good reason to bother you. Not to mention that it's quite
fun. <g>
> On Monday I went and saw "Avatar" in IMAX 3-D.
>
> It's a really shitty plot, but a feast for the eyes.
>
> I strongly suggest it.
You've confirmed what I've heard; Visually stunning but don't expect to be
mentally challenged.
I'm not sure if we even have an IMAX theatre in Auckland anymore. One opened
to great fanfare perhaps 15 years ago but the last I heard of it there
simply weren't enough movies being released in the format to warrant the
chunk of prime real-estate that it was built on. I guess it could still be
going...
> James Cameron, the director, is from "The Kap" Kapuskasing Ontario,
> where the Koreans test their cars.
Now I know that you're having me on! You want me to believe that the Koreans
actually test their cars? Ha!
> It's a small town, but I know three people from Kapuskasing, all are
> Francophones. "it's way the f**k up north" from me!
>
> Great movie. He's done a freaking great job.
>
> Best 3-D ever, even better than the IMAX U2 concert.
I'm pleased that you enjoyed it Berf. I dare say that I'll be waiting for a
good copy to come to a bittorrent site near here, probably in six months.
Must get around to building a home IMAX theatre. :-/
--
Cheers,
Ian Rawlings
> Lucky indeed.
>
> I read that right? The driver threw the keys on the back seat? 'Cause if
> someone had done that to me when I was driving I'd be rather put out.
Yes it was the driver, he was entirely daft enough to do that kind of
thing himself!