The winningest car ever?
The Creative Director
Which is the winningest car ever in any single season?
McLaren in 88, 89, Williams in 92, 93 or Benetton 94, 95?
------------------------------------------------------
From The Creative Director
Brock Bolton
I think it was the 1988 McLaren MP4/4. It won 15 of 16 races between Prost
and Senna.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brock Bolton | Speed Kills-----
Carleton University | Drive a Ford,
Email address: bbo...@chat.carleton.ca | Live forever!!!
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Brian Robinson
Didn't the King (Richard Petty) win over 20 events one year. Y'all best
get yer facts strait. : )
Brock Bolton <bbo...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote in article
<6blhd6$7k2$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>...
cku...@starnetinc.com
On 9 Feb 1998 00:08:06 GMT, bbo...@chat.carleton.ca (Brock Bolton)
wrote:
>The Creative Director (cal...@umich.edu) wrote:
>> Which is the winningest car ever in any single season?
>
>> McLaren in 88, 89, Williams in 92, 93 or Benetton 94, 95?
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> From The Creative Director
>I think it was the 1988 McLaren MP4/4. It won 15 of 16 races between Prost
>and Senna.
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brock Bolton | Speed Kills-----
>Carleton University | Drive a Ford,
>Email address: bbo...@chat.carleton.ca | Live forever!!!
This probably doesn't quite fit, but, as Nigel Roebuck points out,
Ascari won all 9 GPs held from Spa '52 (jun 22 '52) to Spa '53 (jun 21
53). I assume the car was the Ferrari 500F2, though I don't know how
much it was changed between the 52 and 53 seasons. Probably not much I
would guess.
CK
Geoff Schuler
On 9 Feb 1998 02:24:37 GMT, Brian Robinson wrote:
>Didn't the King (Richard Petty) win over 20 events one year. Y'all best
>get yer facts strait. : )
But we're talking about *real* racing here. ;-)
Geoff Schuler
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Brian Robinson
Geoff Schuler <gsch...@REMOVE.logicworld.com.au> wrote in article
<34dee94d...@news.logicworld.com.au>...
> On 9 Feb 1998 02:24:37 GMT, Brian Robinson wrote:
>
> >Didn't the King (Richard Petty) win over 20 events one year. Y'all best
> >get yer facts strait. : )
>
> But we're talking about *real* racing here. ;-)
>
Why the smiley after YOUR post?
Alan Jones
I would go for the 1940 Mercedes. When the Italians insisted on running
the 1.5l superchaged formula, Mercedes built a team from scratch for the
one race, which they won easily.
Considering that the 158 Alfa, which (inter alia) it beat, was the best
available in 1949, imagine how good that Mercedes was.
Alan Jones
A J Samuels
You mean 1939? I think you'll find there wasn't much racing going
on in 1940, except at Indianapolis.
AJ
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Jari Viljasaari
In article <24...@dolomite.win-uk.net>,
ajsa...@dolomite.win-uk.net (A J Samuels) wrote:
>
>
> In article <6bqii6$io7$1...@nargun.cc.uq.edu.au>, Alan Jones (a...@maths.uq.oz.au) writes:
> >I would go for the 1940 Mercedes. When the Italians insisted on running
> >the 1.5l superchaged formula, Mercedes built a team from scratch for the
> >one race, which they won easily.
> >Considering that the 158 Alfa, which (inter alia) it beat, was the best
> >available in 1949, imagine how good that Mercedes was.
> >
>
> You mean 1939? I think you'll find there wasn't much racing going
> on in 1940, except at Indianapolis.
>
> AJ
>
Yup,
The Mercs were fast on '38/'39 seasons but so were Auto Unions
as well, on terms of victories of those seasons I do not know.
I just remember that it was not a Mercedes dominance.
BTW wasn't Alfa Romeo still racing the legendary P3 in
'38/'39 seasons? I don't think the 'little Alfa' saw
any real Grand Prix action before WW2?
On the subject of most succesfull car ever I would nominate
the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158/159. I seem to recall that
this car dominated the seasons of '50/'51 and never lost
a Grand Prix until Silverstone '51 which was won by
Gonzales in a Ferrari.
Anyone out there with the facts?
Rgds,
-Jari
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A J Samuels
>> You mean 1939? I think you'll find there wasn't much racing going
>> on in 1940, except at Indianapolis.
>>
>
>The Mercs were fast on '38/'39 seasons but so were Auto Unions
>as well, on terms of victories of those seasons I do not know.
>I just remember that it was not a Mercedes dominance.
>BTW wasn't Alfa Romeo still racing the legendary P3 in
>'38/'39 seasons? I don't think the 'little Alfa' saw
>any real Grand Prix action before WW2?
>
>On the subject of most succesfull car ever I would nominate
>the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158/159. I seem to recall that
>this car dominated the seasons of '50/'51 and never lost
>a Grand Prix until Silverstone '51 which was won by
>Gonzales in a Ferrari.
>Anyone out there with the facts?
The Alfa 158 was designed and built originally in the late 30s for
the 'voiturette' formula (effectively Formula 2) with 1.5 litre
supercharged engines. It was originally intended that these engine
rules would be adopted for GP racing in 1940, and for this Alfa
planned to introduce a rear-engined flat-12 car. At least one of
these was built (I saw a photo once, it looked like a red
Auto-Union), but due to subsequent events it was unfortunately never
raced. The 158s were de-mothballed for post-war GP racing and as
they proved good enough to beat all opposition until Alfa
withdrew from F1 in 1951 the rear-engined car was not pursued.
Alan Jones
>In article <24...@dolomite.win-uk.net>,
> ajsa...@dolomite.win-uk.net (A J Samuels) wrote:
>>
>>
>> In article <6bqii6$io7$1...@nargun.cc.uq.edu.au>, Alan Jones (a...@maths.uq.oz.au) writes:
>> >I would go for the 1940 Mercedes. When the Italians insisted on running
>> >the 1.5l superchaged formula, Mercedes built a team from scratch for the
>> >one race, which they won easily.
>> >Considering that the 158 Alfa, which (inter alia) it beat, was the best
>> >available in 1949, imagine how good that Mercedes was.
>> >
>>
>> You mean 1939? I think you'll find there wasn't much racing going
>> on in 1940, except at Indianapolis.
>>
>> AJ
>>
No. I mean 1940. By October 1939 nothing much was happening war-wise
in Europe. Italy was still uncommitted (they didn't enter the war
until June 1940) and organised a Grand prix for the Voiturette class
(1.5 litres supercharged) which Alfa and Maseratti had been dominating
while Mercedes and AutoUnion fought out Formula 1 (3.0 litres
supercharged). Mercedes took up the challenge and produced a 1.5litre
car just for the race. (They probably thought it might have more of a
future, but world events intervened.)
Alan Jones
Cesar D'Agord
In article <rsv.887232818@treasure> r...@barwonwater.vic.gov.au (Roger Virgo) writes:
>Jari Viljasaari <jari.vi...@posti.fi> writes:
>>On the subject of most succesfull car ever I would nominate
>>the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158/159. I seem to recall that
>>this car dominated the seasons of '50/'51 and never lost
>>a Grand Prix until Silverstone '51 which was won by
>>Gonzales in a Ferrari.
>>Anyone out there with the facts?
>in 1953. Ascari winning 9 in a row over the two seasons and both world
>championships.
Talking about successful Alfa Romeo's, if I'm not mistaken, after WWII the
Alfa racing team manager was no other than Mr. Enzo Ferrari - the guy
responsible for its success. Enzo left Alfa to form his own racing team,
still using Alfa's (and already using the prancing horse as a symbol). Later
Enzo started the Ferrari company (50 years ago?). Anyone out there to
confirm and/or bring more details to this?
Later,
Cesar D'Agord
Mark Jackson
Jari Viljasaari <jari.vi...@posti.fi> writes:
> ajsa...@dolomite.win-uk.net (A J Samuels) wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alan Jones (a...@maths.uq.oz.au) writes:
> > >I would go for the 1940 Mercedes. When the Italians insisted on running
> > >the 1.5l superchaged formula, Mercedes built a team from scratch for the
> > >one race, which they won easily.
> > >Considering that the 158 Alfa, which (inter alia) it beat, was the best
> > >available in 1949, imagine how good that Mercedes was.
> > >
> >
> > You mean 1939? I think you'll find there wasn't much racing going
> > on in 1940, except at Indianapolis.
> >
> > AJ
> >
>
> Yup,
>
> The Mercs were fast on '38/'39 seasons but so were Auto Unions
> as well, on terms of victories of those seasons I do not know.
> I just remember that it was not a Mercedes dominance.
> BTW wasn't Alfa Romeo still racing the legendary P3 in
> '38/'39 seasons? I don't think the 'little Alfa' saw
> any real Grand Prix action before WW2?
>
> On the subject of most succesfull car ever I would nominate
> the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158/159. I seem to recall that
> this car dominated the seasons of '50/'51 and never lost
> a Grand Prix until Silverstone '51 which was won by
> Gonzales in a Ferrari.
> Anyone out there with the facts?
Right here. . .
Jari, AJ, and Alan are jointly confounding the prewar Grand Prix
formula (called, I believe, Formula A) with the /Voiturette/ or
light-car class. It was the former (a weight maximum, later a 3 liter
displacement maximum) which was dominated by Mercedes (W125, later
W163) and Auto Union, and in which the Alfa P3 competed. /Voiturette/
(1.5 liters max) racing was more competitive; Alfa Romeo built the type
158 for that class and did well in 1938 and early 1939. Accordingly
the 1939 Tripoli GP was changed into a /Voiturette/ race (recall Lybia
was an Italian colony at the time); in response Mercedes developed the
W165 and scored a 1-2 in their only appearance. The Alfetta won the
rest of the /Voiturette/ races it entered (Mercedes were absent),
including the Tripoli GP of 1940 (Italy was neutral until June).
The 158 dominated the postwar racing scene when it was entered, in
particular sweeping the 6 F1 World Championship races of 1950 and (in
159 form) the first three of 1951, before Gonzalez took Silverstone for
Ferrari.
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Roger Virgo
Jari Viljasaari <jari.vi...@posti.fi> writes:
>On the subject of most succesfull car ever I would nominate
>the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 158/159. I seem to recall that
>this car dominated the seasons of '50/'51 and never lost
>a Grand Prix until Silverstone '51 which was won by
>Gonzales in a Ferrari.
>Anyone out there with the facts?
Correct, but what about the Ferrari F2. Won every race in 1952 and 7 out of 8
in 1953. Ascari winning 9 in a row over the two seasons and both world
championships.
The Lotus 72 and McLaren M23 would also have to be concidered among the
winningest cars I would think.
Roger and out...
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Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
Cesar D'Agord (dago...@osu.edu) wrote:
> Talking about successful Alfa Romeo's, if I'm not mistaken, after WWII
> the Alfa racing team manager was no other than Mr. Enzo Ferrari
The date is not quite correct. Enzo started at Alfa Romeo as a driver
in 1920. Later he was an admin at Alfa's race team. Then he started his
own independent team, which mostly raced Alfa Romeos (although he also
raced Duesembergs and motorcycles). He was winning major races in 1931.
In 1938, Alfa recreated a race team, and hired Enzo to run it. But Enzo
couldn't go back to being an employee, after he had been his own boss.
So he broke up with Alfa Romeo, and created Auto Avio Construzioni (he
couldn't use hiw own name for 5 years, due to an agreement with Alfa).
The first time a AAC was raced was in 1940 (Mille Miglia).
1947 is the official date of the birth of the Ferrari factory. Last year
they did a lot of events to commemorate the 50th anniversary.
Source: "Un siecle de course automobile", French Sport-Auto, July 1996
(page 90).
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A J Samuels
In article <6bt6nl$91t$1...@nargun.cc.uq.edu.au>, Alan Jones (a...@maths.uq.oz.au) writes:
>
>No. I mean 1940. By October 1939 nothing much was happening war-wise
>in Europe. Italy was still uncommitted (they didn't enter the war
>until June 1940) and organised a Grand prix for the Voiturette class
>(1.5 litres supercharged) which Alfa and Maseratti had been dominating
>while Mercedes and AutoUnion fought out Formula 1 (3.0 litres
>supercharged). Mercedes took up the challenge and produced a 1.5litre
>car just for the race. (They probably thought it might have more of a
>future, but world events intervened.)
>
Well, your source of information is inaccurate, I'm afraid. The
race you are referring to was the 1939 Tripoli GP.
Ian Thomas
Luiz Rodrigues wrote:
>
> On Sun, 08 Feb 1998 23:34:06 GMT, cal...@umich.edu (The Creative
> Director) wrote:
>
> | Which is the winningest car ever in any single
> | season?
>
> 16 races in 1988 with Ayrton Senna e Alain
> Prost.
I cannot remember if Nigel Mansell still holds the record for the
greatest number of wins in a single season but surely the car that this
was achieved in is the winningest.
--
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