So, the chicane
Phil Newnham
that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may have made
the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
--
Phil
forty
> Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking there
> that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may have made
> the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
>
No help whatsoever. It remains a boring abomination of a Grand Prix circuit.
--
forty
“To embrace an extreme, one must first let go of reason.”
a_Frank
wrote:
>Phil Newnham wrote:
>> Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking there
>> that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may have made
>> the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
>>
>
>No help whatsoever. It remains a boring abomination of a Grand Prix circuit.
>
Thanks for asking and replying. I was going to take notes during the
race, but fell asleep. Had a great dream though. The chicane was
removed along with the track. :-)
--
Regards, Frank
Yaris
be ripped out by it assphault!
T C
> Everty chicane on every race track installed in the last twenty years should
> be ripped out by it assphault!
>
>
>
created all sorts of dumb stuff and I think, messed up a lot of the existing
tracks. Montreal put in one that was really stupid, and later removed it.
The wholesale, flying like a flat-out nut case race tracks like Silverstone and
Monza ended a long time ago. Silverstone in the 1980's was a gas, kind of like
Mosport, but without the elevation changes.
Mark Jones
wrote:
>> Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking there
>> that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may have made
>> the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
>>
>
>No help whatsoever. It remains a boring abomination of a Grand Prix circuit.
We're not surprised, are we? Did you hear about how the cars are
suffering in turbulent air even if they're 2.5 seconds behind each
other?
--
- Jones
Bigbird
> Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking
> there that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may
> have made the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
Perhaps they should look into reducing aero grip...if it's at all
possible for them to discuss a solution without resorting to hyperbole.
;)
--
Vinci
> We're not surprised, are we? Did you hear about how the cars are
> suffering in turbulent air even if they're 2.5 seconds behind each
> other?
But a side effect of the new chicane should have been slowing down the
last turn, allowing cars to run nearer through it and getting the
slipstream on the main straight.
I had the impressione that they were anyway not near enough in most cases,
already through the chicane.
--
Vinci
Vinci
> The abject paranoia that followed Senna's and Roland Ratzenberg's deaths
> created all sorts of dumb stuff and I think, messed up a lot of the existing
> tracks. Montreal put in one that was really stupid, and later removed it.
You can't "really" count the temporary chicanes laid down in 1994. As a
result, they removed a chicane in Barcellona, on the (actual) back
straight. Obviously they had no time before 1994 race so they built the
tyre chicane (!), while Montermini crashed and hurted himself in the last
corner during practice.
I doubt it would be possible to run on the "classic" Monza or Silverstone
layouts (without chicanes) with today's cars. There would be no way of
having some kind of real safety
--
Vinci
a_Frank
wrote:
Don't need hyperbole. Chicanes are not a very good passing point full
stop.
Almost any attempt of an overtake into a chicane, with two close to
equal cars, naughty aero or not, will likely result in the loser
having to go off the track, even if just momentarily. Because the two
turns are so close and the chicanes so narrow, that only one car can
make the right lines through both of them.
For a clean pass, you need the other car to be much slower, or yield
to you.
--
Regards, Frank
Mark Jones
>On Mon, 14 May 2007 04:15:41 +0000, Mark Jones wrote:
>> We're not surprised, are we? Did you hear about how the cars are
>> suffering in turbulent air even if they're 2.5 seconds behind each
>> other?
>
>But a side effect of the new chicane should have been slowing down the
>last turn, allowing cars to run nearer through it and getting the
>slipstream on the main straight.
But the cars still can't get close enough to each other in the slower
corners, so it's no help. Despite the havock Tilke has wrought over
the years, it's a car problem, not a track problem.
--
- Jones
Phil Newnham
Whoosh, I think. The chicane was supposed to help overtaking into T1,
way down the other end of the start/finish straight, by slowing the cars
through the last corner and allowing them to draft. I think the problem
is, the chicane is so slow that the car behind can't get on the power
quick enough to keep up.
--
Phil
a_Frank
wrote:
Ok, i was indeed wooshed on where they thought it may help.
However, these cars do not prvide draft to speak of. I see more actual
drafting effect in MotoGP. They do on the other hand have comparable
braking power and engine power, driven by a very smart computer(old
timers may recall days when human drivers actually measured the amount
of pedal movement to avoid wheelspin and lock ups).
So the end result will always be a simple concertina which will only
help cars if they have better engines to T1.
Better known in OZ as a Clayton's excitement.. which is what F1 sadly
seems to be edging towards. Make it all look busy, that's good racing.
Not.
--
Regards, Frank
Phil Newnham
> Ok, i was indeed wooshed on where they thought it may help.
> However, these cars do not prvide draft to speak of. I see more actual
> drafting effect in MotoGP. They do on the other hand have comparable
> braking power and engine power, driven by a very smart computer(old
> timers may recall days when human drivers actually measured the amount
> of pedal movement to avoid wheelspin and lock ups).
Since you do still see lock ups in F1 I think you're perhaps
exaggerating slightly for effect ;)
> So the end result will always be a simple concertina which will only
> help cars if they have better engines to T1.
> Better known in OZ as a Clayton's excitement.. which is what F1 sadly
> seems to be edging towards. Make it all look busy, that's good racing.
> Not.
Well, Alonso got a good draft from Massa, but to get it, he had to be
right up behind the Ferrari. I think it must still be possible to go
faster behind an F1 car than in free air, because the F1 car must impart
some forward acceleration to the air. The problem seems to be that by
the time they get into the last corner, they're already not close
together having come out of the chicane, and the last corner is still a
fast corner because they accelerate so fast - fast enough that they
cross the line at the same speed this year as last year.
--
Phil