VW Jetta TDI racing series - "clean diesel"?
jeffareid
95% conventional diesel, so this seems more like a case of "clean
coal", then an actually clean fuel source.
Indy race cars, now running ethanol should be considered more
"green", even though the milage is much worse.
APLer
news:06wJm.4792$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad:
There is nothing green about ethanol. It costs more in conventional
gasoline to produce and transport than it delivers, and is still a
hydrocarbon so produces the same sort of exaust as gasoline. Bring back
the hydrogen burning car!.
Jan Verschueren
>> "jeffareid" wrote
>> That so called clean diesel is only 5% bio-diesel, with the
>> other 95% conventional diesel, so this seems more like a
>> case of "clean coal", then an actually clean fuel source.
>>
>> Indy race cars, now running ethanol should be considered
>> more "green", even though the milage is much worse.
>>
> There is nothing green about ethanol. It costs more in
> conventional gasoline to produce and transport than
> it delivers, and is still a hydrocarbon so produces the same
> sort of exaust as gasoline.
It's renewable, though, whereas fossil fuels aren't.
APLer
news:r0IJm.19597$TK7....@newsfe18.ams2:
How you figure if it a) consumes more fossil fuels in production than it
gives and b) there is no way fror the US (as an example) to replace all
it's fossil fuels (or even a large chunk) with bio-ethanol? There *is*
some talk about ethanol from corn stalks as opposed to just the kernels,
but it still doesn't generate enough. All it is is PC marketing. Nothing
more. However Hydrogen is in *every* organic molecule and storage of it
is already used for the boring fuel cells. Good for NASA, but for cars
just makes them less desirable.
rcgldr
>> 95% conventional diesel, so this seems more like a case of "clean
>> coal", then an actually clean fuel source.
>> Indy race cars, now running ethanol should be considered more
>> "green", even though the milage is much worse.
> There is nothing green about ethanol. It costs more in conventional
> gasoline to produce and transport than it delivers, and is still a
> hydrocarbon so produces the same sort of exaust as gasoline.
I don't think that was the point. IRL isn't claiming to be green, but
the VW series is making that claim, even though it's only 5% bio-diesel.
Personally, I don't see the excitement of driving 175hp FWD sedans or
why there was any interest in this series when there are already
established series for SCCA beginners. I don't understand why iRacing
chose to get involved with that series either. I don't know how
the participant cost of $60,000 plus repair of any damage compares to
the cost to compete in other series, but it seem high (Perhaps the
high cost is what it has in common with iRacing?).
>hydrogen
With current technology, most hydrogen is extracted from fossil fuel
sources. It's clean burning, but it's not clean to produce it.
Ian Riches
The "clean" in clean diesel refers to the tailpipe, rather than the fuel
source.
Ian
--
Ian Riches
Bedford, UK
Jan Verschueren
>> "Jan Verschueren"
>> <snip>
>> It's renewable, though, whereas fossil fuels aren't.
>>
> How you figure if it a) consumes more fossil fuels in
> production than it gives
The energy used in the production of ethanol doesn't have to come from
fossil fuels. It does now, but in future it could come from renewable
sources too.
> b) there is no way fror the US (as an example) to
> replace all it's fossil fuels (or even a large chunk)
> with bio-ethanol? There *is* some talk about
> ethanol from corn stalks as opposed to just the
> kernels, but it still doesn't generate enough.
True, in years to come we're going to need to make drastic lifestyle and
economic changes to reduce our dependance on fuels, period, because
alternatives are neither cheap nor plentifull enough. Fossil fuels will run
out, it's no use refusing alternatives because "they're unpractical". ;-p
> However Hydrogen is in *every* organic
> molecule and storage of it is already used
> for the boring fuel cells. Good for NASA,
> but for cars just makes them less desirable.
Hydrogen is an option, but it comes with a lot of safety headaches which
makes the technology too expensive for the moment. There is work being done
and progess being made in that area, though.
APLer
Where is the "dirt" then? You chemically extract it from natural gas
or oil, there is no combustion involved. I do hope you're not comparing
"clean" with "renewable" as they are completely different things. Even in PC
language.
It is in Iceland at least - or was. I have no idea if the severe effect
the depression had on Iceland stopped their hydrogen project or not.