GPL's Realism
Thomas Everett
as possible) why Grand Prix Legends is so much more
realistic than any other driving sim? What things does this
new Papyrus engine model that games like Nascar Racing 2
or Ubisoft's F1 Racing Simulation do not model?
Thomas
Kenny L.
the up/down axis, which completes the 3D reactions of the car. Also, each
tire is separately modeled in GPL, that's how you can lock up only one tire
entering a turn. Ex. when the car is entering a left hand turn, the sim
will calculate how much your turning the wheel, and then unload the left
front and left rear while loading the right front and right rear, all using
separate calculations based on the suspension settings for each corner of
the car, how fast you are going, the temp of each tire etc., cool. Very
busy game engine. Can't wait for Nascar 3, since I'm a stock car nut.
After a few laps in this sim, I know why they added wings to the cars.
Thomas Everett wrote in message <01be178d$08201360$31779888@dantooine>...
cho...@my-dejanews.com
practicing long hrs with it.It just gets more and more realistic to me as I
learn how to race a car fast.Watch alot of different replays at tracks like
the Ring and Zandvoort and youll start to see that no matter what happens the
cars behave like in real life.I believe that a person who races cars in real
life will instantly see how good this physics model is and people who dont
will have a hard time.The reason is that people dont drive their street cars
on their edge and so dont know what understeer for example feels like let
alone FEELING this with only visuals on a PC screen.I was all over the road
in GPL until I finally learned that these cars need to be powered thru turns
to keep them stable.What I mean is that you wnat to keep the nose of the car
light under power so that the steering inputs you make dont send the car
swerving off the road.Then you can judge a turn and if your not turning
enough you can start to lift off the throttle to transfer more weight foward
and improve the turn.Drive in icy conditions for awhile and youll start to
get a feel for what these drivers back then went thru.Watch the little AVI
thats in the GPL folder to see how much the sims cars react like the cars
they model.
Dan
In article <01be178d$08201360$31779888@dantooine>,
"Thomas Everett" <flat...@uclink2.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Could someone explain to me (in as non-technical a language
> as possible) why Grand Prix Legends is so much more
> realistic than any other driving sim? What things does this
> new Papyrus engine model that games like Nascar Racing 2
> or Ubisoft's F1 Racing Simulation do not model?
>
> Thomas
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
John Moore
grip, input force, where gpl is using way more things like each tire
modeled seperately, each suspension seperate, etc etc. For example in n2
the total tire traction for the whole car is computed where in gpl each
tire is seperate and when you turn in a corner the traction available to
each tire changes, you can imagine the difference. I think the total
items modeled went from 6 to 15 or something like that. Each of these
were updated 12 times a second in n2 and now 288 times a second in gpl.
so in simple terms it is simple wayyy more complex.
Wosco
Kenny L. wrote in message ...
>In N2, the physics model is only 2 axis, left/right & front/rear. GPL adds
>the up/down axis, which completes the 3D reactions of the car.
Just to add to your 3d reactions i believe it also models pitch and roll or
something like that (im not a flight sim guy) which adds some more degrees
of 3d action. They say something like 6 degrees of movement. Each tire can
go forward back left right but if you watch when you get light or airborn
you see that it also "rolls" and same with the whole car, with the example
of reving the motor at stand still, everything is modeled so you have more
degrees or movement. I remember in CPR, you get airborn and the car physics
dont know what to do, they just kinda throw you up and its like all gravity
is lost, and same with rolls (i remember driving the pacecar around and then
cutting it tight and the car would roll and then it would just go crazy)
Well thats my .02 to add to Kenny's post.
Wosco
Thomas Everett
Where'd you get the 12/288 figure? I'm trying to write up a review
of sorts, so I need to be accurate. Is this stuff in the manual?
Thomas
John Moore <jmo...@uswest.net> wrote in article
<365ABA04...@uswest.net>...
Thomas Everett
"unload" and "load" the tires?
Thomas.
Kenny L. <tyna...@SPAMinreach.com> wrote in article
<Bgv62.17512$Pk4.7...@news.inreach.com>...
> In N2, the physics model is only 2 axis, left/right & front/rear. GPL
adds
> the up/down axis, which completes the 3D reactions of the car. Also,
each
> tire is separately modeled in GPL, that's how you can lock up only one
tire
> entering a turn. Ex. when the car is entering a left hand turn, the sim
> will calculate how much your turning the wheel, and then unload the left
> front and left rear while loading the right front and right rear, all
using
> separate calculations based on the suspension settings for each corner
of
> the car, how fast you are going, the temp of each tire etc., cool. Very
> busy game engine. Can't wait for Nascar 3, since I'm a stock car nut.
>
> After a few laps in this sim, I know why they added wings to the cars.
>
> Thomas Everett wrote in message <01be178d$08201360$31779888@dantooine>...
EldredP
In article <Bgv62.17512$Pk4.7...@news.inreach.com>, "Kenny L."
<tyna...@SPAMinreach.com> writes:
>After a few laps in this sim, I know why they added wings to the cars.
You ain't just whistling DIXIE, Dixie :)
I've killed myself, other drivers, and even SPECTATORS so many times, I lost
count. Although I'm doing BETTER, I still keep getting punted by that DAMN J.
Rindt...I just about to DELETE him from the game...
Eldred
David Ewing
> I've killed myself, other drivers, and even SPECTATORS so many times, I lost
> count. Although I'm doing BETTER, I still keep getting punted by that DAMN J.
> Rindt...I just about to DELETE him from the game...
I told you that Jochen Rindt was a menace! (see previous thread - "GPL:
Jochen Rindt is a menace").
Dave Ewing
Mark R.
'unloading' is with respect to tire and suspension dynamics, I'd
suggest you pass on writing any reviews of a sim of GPL's
caliber.
Rgds,
Mark R.
On 25 Nov 1998 19:02:52 GMT, "Thomas Everett"
<flat...@uclink2.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>John,
>
>Where'd you get the 12/288 figure? I'm trying to write up a review
>of sorts, so I need to be accurate. Is this stuff in the manual?
>
>Thomas
>
>
>John Moore <jmo...@uswest.net> wrote in article
><365ABA04...@uswest.net>...
>> well in nontechy techtalk n2 physics is based on a few items like speed,
>> grip, input force, where gpl is using way more things like each tire
>> modeled seperately, each suspension seperate, etc etc. For example in n2
>> the total tire traction for the whole car is computed where in gpl each
>> tire is seperate and when you turn in a corner the traction available to
>> each tire changes, you can imagine the difference. I think the total
>> items modeled went from 6 to 15 or something like that. Each of these
>> were updated 12 times a second in n2 and now 288 times a second in gpl.
>> so in simple terms it is simple wayyy more complex.
>>
>> Thomas Everett wrote:
>>
EldredP
In article <365C8639...@opendisc.com>, David Ewing
<David...@opendisc.com> writes:
<g> I remembered the thread, but I couldn't remember who STARTED it... :)
Eldred
...Who finally WON a 6-lap race at Monza, with ten 'reversed-AI' opponents!
Ok, so I would have finished 10th with a full field, but at this point, I don't
CARE!<g> Woo-Hoo!!!
Kenny L.
changes. For example, when you hit the brakes going into a turn, the weight
of the car shifts to the front wheels, causing the front of the car to dip.
when you hit the brakes and turn right, the weight transfers forward and to
the left , loading the l/f tire and unloading the r/r tire. when you hit
the gas, the weight transfers back to the rear tires thus loading the rear
tires. you will see the actions and reactions in the front suspension.
Viper Racing has this very cool camera view of just the front suspension,
which illustrates this weight transferring effect oh so well.
try this, find a long sweeping turn, and watch the tire temps change.
Thomas Everett wrote in message <01be18a6$17b92540$31779888@dantooine>...
>Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a bit confused. What does it mean to
>"unload" and "load" the tires?
>
>Thomas.
>
>Kenny L. <tyna...@SPAMinreach.com> wrote in article
><Bgv62.17512$Pk4.7...@news.inreach.com>...
>> In N2, the physics model is only 2 axis, left/right & front/rear. GPL
>adds
>> the up/down axis, which completes the 3D reactions of the car. Also,
>each
>> tire is separately modeled in GPL, that's how you can lock up only one
>tire
>> entering a turn. Ex. when the car is entering a left hand turn, the sim
>> will calculate how much your turning the wheel, and then unload the left
>> front and left rear while loading the right front and right rear, all
>using
>> separate calculations based on the suspension settings for each corner
>of
>> the car, how fast you are going, the temp of each tire etc., cool. Very
>> busy game engine. Can't wait for Nascar 3, since I'm a stock car nut.
>>
>> After a few laps in this sim, I know why they added wings to the cars.
>>
>> Thomas Everett wrote in message <01be178d$08201360$31779888@dantooine>...
Russell D. Laughlin Jr.
all over the place by Clark?
Russ
EldredP
In article <73mtkg$db9$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Russell D. Laughlin
Jr." <rlaug...@earthlink.net> writes:
Edit the file in the GPL directory called DRIVER.INI
The drivers are listed from 1 to 19. Just renumber them. In other words,
Clark is normally number 1. Just change his number to 19, change the next to
18, etc. When you run a race, you're now selecting the SLOWEST drivers first.
As you get better, you can select more drivers, who will be progressively
faster. I don't remember who originally gave this tip, so I can't give proper
credit, sorry.
Eldred
p.s. BTW, I just ran a full distance, full damage race yesterday. Won by 17
seconds...YESSSS!<g>
Russell D. Laughlin Jr.
EldredP wrote in message <19981127172129...@ngol01.aol.com>...
EldredP
In article <73nbhd$5gu$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Russell D. Laughlin
Jr." <rlaug...@earthlink.net> writes:
>Don't Rub it in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>EldredP wrote in message <19981127172129...@ngol01.aol.com>...
>>
>>Eldred
>>p.s. BTW, I just ran a full distance, full damage race yesterday. Won by
>17
>>seconds...YESSSS!<g>
<g>
Would it make you feel better if I told you I almost put it in the fence on lap
60? I *hate* the Lesmos corner(s) :(
Eldred
Russell D. Laughlin Jr.
EldredP
In article <73pbnu$mgu$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Russell D. Laughlin Jr."
<rlaug...@earthlink.net> writes:
Oh! Well, that's different.... Nevermind. - Emily Litella
Eldred
holys...@spammy.net
EldredP wrote:
>p.s. BTW, I just ran a full distance, full damage race yesterday. Won by
>17 seconds...YESSSS!<g>
A full race.. Wow, and full damage too. Geez it CAN be done!! <g>.
I don't care if the A/I cars had a top-end of 55mph,
congratulations!!
Matt
-Teehole
Quote: "Many games create the ultimate technological experience, but falter
when it comes to creating a compelling story to keep gamers interested".<<
Author:Tim Royal,Computer Games Strategy Plus.
EldredP
>EldredP wrote:
>
>>p.s. BTW, I just ran a full distance, full damage race yesterday. Won by
>>17 seconds...YESSSS!<g>
>
> A full race.. Wow, and full damage too. Geez it CAN be done!! <g>.
>
> I don't care if the A/I cars had a top-end of 55mph,
>congratulations!!
>
> Matt
>
LOL!
<elvis voice on>
Thank you, thank you very much...
<elvis voice OFF>
Eldred
Mark R.
Scurr) wrote:
>Sparks@spam_this.mailroom.com (Mark R.) wrote:
>
>>Thomas, with all due respect, if you don't know what 'loading' or
>>'unloading' is with respect to tire and suspension dynamics, I'd
>>suggest you pass on writing any reviews of a sim of GPL's
>>caliber.
>
>I think that *any* review is valid as long as a person puts it into context by
>stating their point of view. Are you a gamer or an automotive engineer? For
>example.
>
>glen
I'm not announcing to the world that I am planning on writing a
review, so my qualifications are inconsequential. I was merely
offering Thomas my opinion on his endeavor. People will make no
buying decisions based on my particular post quoted above.
People do make buying decisions based on reviews. $30 or $40 does
not come easy to many.
Your concept of stating the perspective and qualifications of the
reviewer is a noble one, but rarely followed in the real world.
Bogus magazine reviews abound, as any serious simmer can attest
to. Ergo, IMHO reviews are best left to 'highly experienced'
gamers and/or professionals in the simulation's field. FYI, I'm
neither, but I've been around. And I _do_ know what
loading/unloading is <g>.
Rgds,
Mark R.