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Building a light A1/A2 racer

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EBavely

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
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Hello all...

I just got a new job and I'm thinking of maybe getting a second GTI (or
VW) to turn into a auto-cross or slalom car. I've heard excellent things
about the power to weight ratios of the early euro-GTI's and A1
cars....but I like the A2 so much better...

As an idea, this car would get a beefed 8V motor, a fatty bored-out 2+
liter 16V motor, a G60 or some other crazy combination....Kind of
follows the lines of the European Car article (this month) on that guy's
A1 20V racer that smokes Corvettes.

Any thoughts? Does anyone have a setup that is working well for them?
Are suspension upgrades easier on A1's or A2's? Are the aftermarkets
strong in both?

If I was going with an A1 car, would it be better to start with a GTI or
just a normal rabbit (as most of the stock parts will be replaced
anyway...)?

Just an idea to kick around...I mean, hey, I need something to daydream
about at work, right?

Thank you . ..

Elliott
89 GTI
74 Ghia
80 something woods buggy

"Friends call me the eggman....Drivin' around, eggin' the town...Always
got my window rolled down...."


CHRIS86VW

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
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>If I was going with an A1 car, would it be better to start with a GTI or
>just a normal rabbit (as most of the stock parts will be replaced
>anyway...)?

I personally think if you are gonna change everything then you might as well
start with the base model for 3 reasons.

1. The base model with be cheaper so if you plan to strip and replace
everything then why spend the extra for stuff you are gonna throw away.

2. Insurance! I don't know if you plan on registering the car but a GTi has a
higher premium then a base rabbit. If you are gonna change everything and build
something better then a GTi then why pay the extra premium, the insurance
company doesn't have to know the car you built will eat a regular GTi. Both
the A2s and A1s came in 2 door base models at sometime, or Gt for the A2s, so
something like that would be a good base.

3. Leave the GTi for someone who wants to restore it or really wants a GTi for
everyday. We lose more and more of those things everyday and eventually they
will become extinct. If you want to save a few classics for our children don't
turn them into race cars, where it is their fate to be beaten and destroyed.


The only time I personally would use an actual GTi for a project/race car is if
I planned to keep the badges on, which will never happen. I do not believe in
rebadging a car something that it is not. A Rabbit or Golf is not a GTi, they
are there own breed, so just because your car is cooler or whatever then a
stock GTi doesn't make it a GTi. If you built up a 328 with everthing the same
as an M3 right down to the last detail, is it an M3, no it is a pretty cool
328, why because the factory didn't call it an M3.

I apoligize for my going on, but I get very upset around misbadged cars. I
think cars should come from the factory with no badges and it should be your
choice if the thing says Jetta on the back or has a big VW emblem in the grill,
its my car gosh darnit, not theirs. And it is even worse when people put other
badges on their cars. Worst example I saw was a Supra twin Turbo with Gold
Lexus emblems and it even said Lexus on the back. Now a Supra is better then
any Lexus, why would you want to do that. Also supposedly on Bucsh Campus at
Rutgers, parked outside Metzger, if anyone wants to go and laugh, is a Sebring
or something with BMW badges on it. Didn't see it to confirm but this is what
I have heared.

I apoligize again for my goings on, no I will go, bye.

chris
chris86vw@aol

Brad84GTI

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
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I agree with chris about saving the GTi's... But yesterday I bought another
'84 that was sitiing in someones backyard and doesn't run. It has some rust
but nothing major, the interior got wet recently, the oil looked good and
overall it will turn out ok. My plan is to rebuild into one mean street/track
machine. Normally I would feel bad doing this to a GTi but it was in such poor
shape that anything I do to it will make it better. Not looking for permission
or anything I just wanted to let everyone to know I have a project car ;) I am
now accepting donations in the form of parts or plain cash. Anyway everyone
have a good day enjoying their cars.
Brad '84 GTi's

Jake Russell

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
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EBavely <eba...@fuse.net> wrote in article <37E32B73...@fuse.net>...

> Hello all...
>
> I just got a new job and I'm thinking of maybe getting a second GTI (or
> VW) to turn into a auto-cross or slalom car. I've heard excellent things
> about the power to weight ratios of the early euro-GTI's and A1
> cars....but I like the A2 so much better...

Sounds like fun...

Have you seen the results from this year's SCCA Solo II nationals yet?
Folks from all around the country were out autocross racing this week in
Topeka, Kansas.

Check out the results for DSP, hot off the press as of yesterday, at:
http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/99nationals/results/page8.html

Notice how Fiat X1/9s are very competitive cars in this class. In fact,
these have been dominating the class for quite a while now. Besides that
you see a lot of VWs - mostly Rabbits but some sciroccos and the occasional
A2, and a few other makes/models but nothing an popular as the VWs.
Beginning next year the VWs won't have to compete against the Fiats anymore
due to the Street Prepared class restructuring (All other DSP eligible cars
will go to ESP, but Fiats will go into the new DSP, therefore the VWs will
be very competitive cars - make sense?)

Anyway, I think you're on the right track with a Rabbit. Possibly consider
a scirocco for it's lower CG, although the Rabbit allows better course
visibility / seating position

> As an idea, this car would get a beefed 8V motor, a fatty bored-out 2+
> liter 16V motor, a G60 or some other crazy combination....Kind of
> follows the lines of the European Car article (this month) on that guy's
> A1 20V racer that smokes Corvettes.

If you want to win in SCCA Solo II, put all those thoughts of crazy engine
swaps out of your mind. They would put you into Modified category, where
you'll have to compete against open-wheeled, purpose built racecars. In
other words, you might have a lot of fun doing the swap and all, but don't
expect on being competitive at least not nationally

It is permitted to swap any Rabbit or A1 Jetta motor, including 90-hp,
low-compression 1.8l GTI motor (or even an '83-'84 Rabbit/Jetta turbodiesel
;) The motor must be transplanted in it's entirety - no mismatching
blocks/heads/cams, etc

> Any thoughts? Does anyone have a setup that is working well for them?
> Are suspension upgrades easier on A1's or A2's? Are the aftermarkets
> strong in both?

Aftermarket support is good for each car. For national-caliber auto-x
racers, A2s are less popular because they weigh a little more. But on the
flip-side, A2s have the high-compression 1.8 engine available which has
more HP. I think one can do well with either. Locally, DSP of the
northwest region I'm in is dominated by an A2 GTI. I wonder how this guy
would do at nationals as he is very good!

> If I was going with an A1 car, would it be better to start with a GTI or
> just a normal rabbit (as most of the stock parts will be replaced
> anyway...)?

I've heard rumor that german-built are lighter than westmoreland, but have
been unable to verify this so far. What is clear is that using a two-door
will be lighter than a four-door and no sunroof will be lighter and have
lower CG than with sunroof. Ideally, find a car meeting the above criteria
as well as having no dealer-applied undercoating, and you'll have a good
starting point. Engine, transmission, brakes, all the little interior
bolt-on doodads that aren't part of the chassis itself, etc can all be
backdated/updated from previous or later models of Rabbit or Jetta (A1)
including GTI goodies like vented 9.4" brake rotors, etc

> Just an idea to kick around...I mean, hey, I need something to daydream
> about at work, right?
>

> Elliott
> 89 GTI
> 74 Ghia
> 80 something woods buggy
>
> "Friends call me the eggman....Drivin' around, eggin' the town...Always
> got my window rolled down...."

I've been considering doing the same for about 2-3 months now...

Taken my GTD racing but boy would it be nice to have a dedicated car just
for racing. (I don't relish the thought of putting camber plates and 400
lb-in springs and start making mods just to save weight on my daily driver
:P)

Jake
- VW Golf GTD: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jaker/gtd> Thank you . ..


zndbu...@mail.gci.net

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
to

> Also supposedly on Bucsh Campus at
> Rutgers, parked outside Metzger, if anyone wants to go and laugh, is a Sebring
> or something with BMW badges on it. Didn't see it to confirm but this is what
> I have heared.

got one better I have seen a ford festiva with a lexus nameplate and
badge hehe man that is Cool..NOT!

Zac

Matt B.

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Sep 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/18/99
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zndbu...@mail.gci.net wrote in message
<37E467CB...@mail.gci.net>...

>got one better I have seen a ford festiva with a lexus nameplate and
>badge hehe man that is Cool..NOT!

Saw a late 80s Mazda 323 hatchback today with a BMW 'M' badge on the
back. Pffft!

--
-Matt
1991 Golf GTI 8v, 124K+ miles and counting...
Remove 'fightspam.' from email address to reply


JJ

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Sep 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/19/99
to
Oh MAN! Go with the A1! Much easier to get a faster car with less $$$.
The A2 is about 300+ lbs heavier even after stripping them both. I just
finished the first stage of my G60 Rabbit and damn it is FAST. I was haning
with an early 80's Porsche 911 Turbo tonight.

Basically I bought an 83 GTI from a friend with 200k miles on it and
stripped it. I chipped out all the sound deadening too. I put in the
Corrado dash and all wiring and instruments *everything works great BTW) and
sprayed some of that Sound deadening in a can. Then I put in a new carpet
today which went pretty well actually and barely added any weight. There is
no stereo, AC, PS or anything unnecesary for driving. I guess the car is
about 1800-1900 lbs and I'm going to weigh it next week.

The motor is stock now except for header, raised compression, 944 turbo fpr,
and a big intercooler and it is extremely fast. It handles extremely well
too on the coil-overs I got. No A2 I've driven has ever felt as rigid and
tossable as the A1 cars. The Scirocco is my favorite so far but this Rabbit
is neck and neck with all my previous Sciroccos now :) GO A1! Good luck,
J

EBavely wrote:

> Hello all...
>
> I just got a new job and I'm thinking of maybe getting a second GTI (or
> VW) to turn into a auto-cross or slalom car. I've heard excellent things
> about the power to weight ratios of the early euro-GTI's and A1
> cars....but I like the A2 so much better...
>

> As an idea, this car would get a beefed 8V motor, a fatty bored-out 2+
> liter 16V motor, a G60 or some other crazy combination....Kind of
> follows the lines of the European Car article (this month) on that guy's
> A1 20V racer that smokes Corvettes.
>

> Any thoughts? Does anyone have a setup that is working well for them?
> Are suspension upgrades easier on A1's or A2's? Are the aftermarkets
> strong in both?
>

> If I was going with an A1 car, would it be better to start with a GTI or
> just a normal rabbit (as most of the stock parts will be replaced
> anyway...)?
>

> Just an idea to kick around...I mean, hey, I need something to daydream
> about at work, right?
>

> Thank you . ..
>


TDey709971

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Sep 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/19/99
to
if you go with a rabbit, they are right about being lighter, find an early
german built rabbit with no undercoating, stay away from a gti, you can aways
get the sway bars and crap from one. keep in mind that if your really picky
about wieght, alot of aftermarket body panels are lighter than stock. in our
min-stock class, you want to put the wieght where you need it, not just the
lighter the better, but maybe its different in auto-x jazz, hope that helps!

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