I am not trying to start a war here, I just HAVE to know!!!
Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas mileage, why would I even consider one?
My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> I am not trying to start a war here, I just HAVE to know!!!
> Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
> low end torque, durability and the long range, mileage is a plus for most, > diesel is also cheaper in lots of places its also fairly unique
Amen to that. Here in Atlanta, Diesel prices/gallon are exactly midway between 87-octane gas and 89-octane gas - MUCH cheaper than the 93 so many VW's require (or at least strongly desire).
I was hoping to find a TDI 5-speed myself, but hardly found any TDI's (and all I did find were automatic). Not that I exactly "settled" for the thirsty-for-premium VR6 in my GTI, mind you :)
--
· George C. Mantis · "Oh Lord, please · · · | · don't let us · · - + - screw up." · · · | · -The Shepherd's prayer www.ASDL.gatech.edu · (Alan Shepherd)
If fuel milage were not a factor for me, I might have bought the 1.8 gas turbo Golf instead of the TDI. It was very zippy and responsive. But at 31 mpg, it gets worse milage than my '92 Honda Civic. I like my TDI a lot: powerful, frugal and responsive enough. I've had it less than a month, though.
"TOE" wrote: > If I don't care about gas mileage, why would I even consider one?
Maybe you should care! Less fuel burned per mile is less CO2 in the air, less money out of your wallet, etc.
"George C. Mantis" wrote: > Amen to that. Here in Atlanta, Diesel prices/gallon are exactly midway between > 87-octane gas and 89-octane gas - MUCH cheaper than the 93 so many VW's require > (or at least strongly desire).
> I was hoping to find a TDI 5-speed myself, but hardly found any TDI's (and all > I did find were automatic). Not that I exactly "settled" for the > thirsty-for-premium VR6 in my GTI, mind you :)
Out in sunny California, diesel $1.59/gal, 87 unleaded, $1.91 or more. I'm liking my (non-TDI) VW diesel nowadays :-)
> If fuel milage were not a factor for me, I might have bought the 1.8 gas > turbo Golf instead of the TDI. It was very zippy and responsive. But at 31 > mpg, it gets worse milage than my '92 Honda Civic.
TOE, you ask a very good question. The TDI is a wimp on acceleration and power. If you want those characteristics (good acceleration and horsepower), you wouldn't even want to consider the car. People are in love with it because it gets great gas mileage and diesel costs less. Who cares about that if you really don't put on that many miles. And don't let people play the environmental thing on you because diesels still emit more particulate matter than gasoline engines and these particulates cause health problems. I'll dig up the link to the research if anyone is interested.
> I am not trying to start a war here, I just HAVE to know!!!
> Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
> TOE, you ask a very good question. The TDI is a wimp on acceleration and > power. If you want those characteristics (good acceleration and > horsepower), you wouldn't even want to consider the car.
If you only compare the models available in the US you are right. But if you compare models with the same horsepower like: 1.6 100HP gas / 100 HP TDI PD you would see the difference, of course a 90 HP TDI is weaker than the 1.8T, but the 1.8T (150 HP) will hardly keep up with the 130 HP TDI PD in street driving (as long as you don't hit the top speed range of course).
> TOE, you ask a very good question. The TDI is a wimp on acceleration and > power. If you want those characteristics (good acceleration and > horsepower), you wouldn't even want to consider the car. People are in love > with it because it gets great gas mileage and diesel costs less. Who cares > about that if you really don't put on that many miles. And don't let people > play the environmental thing on you because diesels still emit more > particulate matter than gasoline engines and these particulates cause health > problems. I'll dig up the link to the research if anyone is interested.
> > Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> > My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> > What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
If you chip the TDI, I've heard reports that the emissions get worse (i.e. more smoking and particulates). This weakens the benefit of "environmentally friendly" even further.
"Slaven Karalic" <skara...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
> There's always the possibility of chipping a TDI so > you get good performance and great fuel economy also...
> "Carter Fields" <cfield...@mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:9fq085$flb$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net... > > TOE, you ask a very good question. The TDI is a wimp on acceleration and > > power. If you want those characteristics (good acceleration and > > horsepower), you wouldn't even want to consider the car. People are in > love > > with it because it gets great gas mileage and diesel costs less. Who > cares > > about that if you really don't put on that many miles. And don't let > people > > play the environmental thing on you because diesels still emit more > > particulate matter than gasoline engines and these particulates cause > health > > problems. I'll dig up the link to the research if anyone is interested.
> > > Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > > > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > > > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > > > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> > > My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > > > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> > > What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
Do you believe everything you hear? Depends on the chip really. Even unchipped, there are ways of solving the particulate emissions. Most of the problem is the crappy diesel fuel we get here in the US. Europe is light years ahead. Having the gov't mandate Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel would virtually solve that and the NOx emissions. Even today though, a mixture of 80% dino diesel, 20% biodiesel does wonders! And biodiesel can be made from a number of renewable sources (soy beans, filtertered fryer waste oil!)
> If you chip the TDI, I've heard reports that the emissions get worse (i.e. > more smoking and particulates). This weakens the benefit of > "environmentally friendly" even further.
Thanks for the info Jeff, but the fact remains that we still get "crappy" fuel in the US and so we still have to deal with particulates. Sure, laws and new fuel would be great, but we have particulates now and the chip question/answer was based on CURRENT situations.
-Carter.
"JeffD" <jdonsb...@altavista.com> wrote in message
> Do you believe everything you hear? Depends on the chip really. Even > unchipped, there are ways of solving the particulate emissions. Most of the > problem is the crappy diesel fuel we get here in the US. Europe is light > years ahead. Having the gov't mandate Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel would > virtually solve that and the NOx emissions. Even today though, a mixture of > 80% dino diesel, 20% biodiesel does wonders! And biodiesel can be made from > a number of renewable sources (soy beans, filtertered fryer waste oil!)
> Carter Fields <cfield...@mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:9fqrrf$nlo$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net... > > If you chip the TDI, I've heard reports that the emissions get worse (i.e. > > more smoking and particulates). This weakens the benefit of > > "environmentally friendly" even further.
As I understand it the particulates that the diesel produces are bigger (more the size of house dust) that the lungs can handle. In the gasoline the fuel is reburned in the catalytic converter which produces much smaller particles that get much further into the lungs and get stuck. Except here in Canada where our gas has between 300-800 ppm sulpher content so the cat cons don't work at all after a few months.. Diesel is around 30ppm. Go figure. Russ.
Carter Fields wrote: > TOE, you ask a very good question. The TDI is a wimp on acceleration and > power. If you want those characteristics (good acceleration and > horsepower), you wouldn't even want to consider the car. People are in love > with it because it gets great gas mileage and diesel costs less. Who cares > about that if you really don't put on that many miles. And don't let people > play the environmental thing on you because diesels still emit more > particulate matter than gasoline engines and these particulates cause health > problems. I'll dig up the link to the research if anyone is interested.
> > Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> > My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> > What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
So, has anyone experimented with a catalytic convertor for their diesel for the particulate? I know they exist since I helped a friend install one on an cogenerator for his house (burns home heating oil, and runs an alternator for electricity and warms incoming water as an assist to a conventional hot water heater)
Upon starting the cat is cold, and it acts only as a trap. Once a few minutes of run time have allowed it to get up to temperature, it's core acts as a catalyst for the soot. I know it reduces particulate (the black smoke) greatly, but I don't know what it does with sulfur content.
Maybe an automotive version isn't practical. Anyone know more about these?
-Arthur
Carter Fields wrote:
> Thanks for the info Jeff, but the fact remains that we still get "crappy" > fuel in the US and so we still have to deal with particulates. Sure, laws > and new fuel would be great, but we have particulates now and the chip > question/answer was based on CURRENT situations.
In article <3B2381AF.1EDF5...@NOSPAMbellatlantic.net>, Arthur Russell
<a...@NOSPAMbellatlantic.net> wrote: > So, has anyone experimented with a catalytic convertor for their diesel > for the particulate? [snip]
> Maybe an automotive version isn't practical. Anyone know more about > these?
I know a couple of years ago Peugeot (and Volvo?) were looking at a pyrolizer which would collect soot and periodically "fire" to burn it off. Haven't had time to pursue what happened to the idea.
Interesting, our gas prices in the metro area (Charleston WV and surrounding) are varying all over the map right now, from $1.95 (BP premium) to $1.76 (Citgo premium). If you want the Speedway crap it's even cheaper. (BTW, the BP and Citgo are both 93 octane)
Amen to that. Here in Atlanta, Diesel prices/gallon are exactly midway between 87-octane gas and 89-octane gas - MUCH cheaper than the 93 so many VW's require (or at least strongly desire).
Go up a steep hill in 5th gear in any other 4 banger, and if you have never cared about gas mileage? their is some great roads your missing oh ya the handling (17" rims, sport shocks and strut stabilizer and don't forget Pilot tires) Hang On
> I am not trying to start a war here, I just HAVE to know!!!
> Everyone loves their TDI's and they seem to be so desireable. People > swear they will never go back to gas and have always had diesels > throughout the years etc etc... But why?! If I don't care about gas > mileage, why would I even consider one?
> My sister has a New Jetta TDI and I found nothing exciting about it. > I like my New Jetta and New Beetle better.
> What gives? I just want to know what I'm missing.
In article <443W6.210$Sd.121...@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"BZ" <zapper...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Go up a steep hill in 5th gear in any other 4 banger, and if you have never > cared about gas mileage? their is some great roads your missing oh ya the > handling (17" rims, sport shocks and strut stabilizer and don't forget Pilot > tires) Hang On
> Driver Found
The 1.8T has 155ft-lbs from 1,950-4,500 - 50rpm higher for the peak torque compared to the TDI so the 5th gear acceleration might be very very similar if not identical.
: As I understand it the particulates that the diesel produces are bigger (more : the size of house dust) that the lungs can handle. In the gasoline the fuel is : reburned in the catalytic converter which produces much smaller particles that : get much further into the lungs and get stuck. Except here in Canada where our : gas has between 300-800 ppm sulpher content so the cat cons don't work at all : after a few months.. Diesel is around 30ppm. Go figure. : Russ.
Actually I think diesel particulates are of the nasty size for your lungs... too small for your cilia to deal with.
