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6V to 12 conversion q.
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Jorge
May 7, 2013, 11:29:37 AM5/7/13
to
a neighbor with a '60 bug asked me how difficult it is to go 12 volt.
I thought the starter was the worst of it.
tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
where can one get this?
TIA
g
--
Karma ; what a concept!
I thought the starter was the worst of it.
tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
where can one get this?
TIA
g
--
Karma ; what a concept!
Bill Leary
May 7, 2013, 12:46:33 PM5/7/13
to
"Jorge" wrote in message
news:georgewk10-44D8B...@news.toast.net...
my case it was because I put in the motor from a late '70's bug, 12V
alternator rather than 6V generator, that had been in a front end collision.
I got them to throw in the starter. Ground out the transmission housing a
bit to let the flywheel fit. Starter bolted right in. Had to replace all
the light bulbs, not forgetting the dash board lights. And had to put a
piece of plywood on top of the battery because the 12V one was just a bit
too tall and if someone heavy enough sat on that side of the back seat it
would short out.
Not your situation, though.
Before I talked them into giving me the starter, I looked into replacing the
gear on the starter with the right one for the new engine. That would be a
6V Starter with a 12V starter gear. It turned out the starter rebuild shop
could do the job for a reasonable price. I expect you could do it the other
way around too.
I have to wonder if your bigger problem isn't going to be a 12V generator.
- Bill
news:georgewk10-44D8B...@news.toast.net...
> a neighbor with a '60 bug asked me how difficult it is to go 12 volt.
> I thought the starter was the worst of it.
> tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
> tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
> where can one get this?
I converted an, I think, '64 bug from 6V to 12V back in the '70's. But in
> I thought the starter was the worst of it.
> tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
> tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
> where can one get this?
my case it was because I put in the motor from a late '70's bug, 12V
alternator rather than 6V generator, that had been in a front end collision.
I got them to throw in the starter. Ground out the transmission housing a
bit to let the flywheel fit. Starter bolted right in. Had to replace all
the light bulbs, not forgetting the dash board lights. And had to put a
piece of plywood on top of the battery because the 12V one was just a bit
too tall and if someone heavy enough sat on that side of the back seat it
would short out.
Not your situation, though.
Before I talked them into giving me the starter, I looked into replacing the
gear on the starter with the right one for the new engine. That would be a
6V Starter with a 12V starter gear. It turned out the starter rebuild shop
could do the job for a reasonable price. I expect you could do it the other
way around too.
I have to wonder if your bigger problem isn't going to be a 12V generator.
- Bill
alv...@example.com
May 8, 2013, 12:24:39 AM5/8/13
to
> I have to wonder if your bigger problem isn't going to
> be a 12V generator.
> - Bill
x2 :)
> be a 12V generator.
> - Bill
Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire a 6v
generator to make enough voltage to charge a 12v battery.
The original idea was for dune buggies.
Too much load for that little thing?
Answer: Reduce the load. ;)
Throw that st00pid #$%in' radio out first thing.
Make your VW engine run good and listen to it. ;)
I never liked running a dune buggy at night, YMMV?
Alvin in AZ
Bill Leary
May 8, 2013, 5:30:38 AM5/8/13
to
wrote in message news:kmck27$c1l$1...@reader1.panix.com...
thinking of a fun to do.
> The original idea was for dune buggies.
> Too much load for that little thing?
> Answer: Reduce the load. ;)
Well, if it's dune buggies it seems lighting would be the big issue (yes, I
know you address that later). If you want it to be street legal you need at
least the standard VW complement of lights. If you want to use it off road
at night, you pretty much need a lot more than standard.
> Throw that st00pid #$%in' radio out first thing.
> Make your VW engine run good and listen to it. ;)
My recollection was that I could run a radio (regular radio, not a "sound
system") all day and still start it. Headlights would drain the battery in
a few hours.
> I never liked running a dune buggy at night, YMMV?
Yes. I'd be afraid of getting out somewhere and it going dark and not being
able to get back.
- Bill
>> I have to wonder if your bigger problem isn't going to
>> be a 12V generator.
>
>> be a 12V generator.
>
> x2 :)
>
> Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire
> a 6v generator to make enough voltage to charge a
> 12v battery.
To each his own, I guess. Winding motors/generators isn't something I'd be
>
> Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire
> a 6v generator to make enough voltage to charge a
> 12v battery.
thinking of a fun to do.
> The original idea was for dune buggies.
> Too much load for that little thing?
> Answer: Reduce the load. ;)
know you address that later). If you want it to be street legal you need at
least the standard VW complement of lights. If you want to use it off road
at night, you pretty much need a lot more than standard.
> Throw that st00pid #$%in' radio out first thing.
> Make your VW engine run good and listen to it. ;)
system") all day and still start it. Headlights would drain the battery in
a few hours.
> I never liked running a dune buggy at night, YMMV?
able to get back.
- Bill
KWW
May 8, 2013, 5:40:11 AM5/8/13
to
starts instantly. Can't sit and crank it a lot though. Make sure the
bushing is in good shape cause it could chew up the flywheel.
For some reason my engine constantly forced the upper pulley to dig into
the face of the 12v generator or alternator. Not sure why. It would
auger out the back of the puly where it meets the stop. Always made sure
it was tight, etc.
KWW
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Jorge
May 8, 2013, 10:07:25 AM5/8/13
to
In article <UZCdnSwimuJvshTM...@giganews.com>,
I know the stand is different. on the starter bushing. I believe there
is a difference and someone makes a thin one to fit the bell housing and
the starter end.
is a difference and someone makes a thin one to fit the bell housing and
the starter end.
alv...@example.com
May 8, 2013, 1:34:59 PM5/8/13
to
Bill Leary <Bill_...@msn.com> wrote:
> > Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire
> > a 6v generator to make enough voltage to charge a
> > 12v battery.
>
> To each his own, I guess. Winding motors/generators isn't
> something I'd be thinking of a fun to do.
> - Bill
> > Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire
> > a 6v generator to make enough voltage to charge a
> > 12v battery.
>
> To each his own, I guess. Winding motors/generators isn't
> something I'd be thinking of a fun to do.
Yeah but, Bill! ;)
...I'm easily entertained! xD
I've always liked ramva, for example. ;)
> > Too much load for that little thing?
Friggin' arguing against myself here... LOL :)
Bosch etc didn't make the 12v generator bigger just for the fun of
it. ;) They re-wired the 6v generator for 12v use and tried it out.
They made the 12v bigger knowing the heat generated and the future
demands VW was going to put on it?
Betcha it was something like that. ;)
But always-wanted-to for dune buggies and maybe my '67 bug, anyway.
Little fan shroud, little generator, 88mm slip-ins... <shrug>
Alvin in AZ is a tinkering fool and never had any trouble with 88's.
Bill Leary
May 8, 2013, 7:15:57 PM5/8/13
to
((..not replying to anyone in particular..))
When they are popular, I wanted a dune buggy. And considered converting my
bug into a buggy, but needed it as my daily driver. And, besides, I didn't
want to use a swing axle rear suspension for a buggy. Anyway, I never did
it.
I had a '64, 1.2L, 40HP, 6 volt bug. I put very large wheels and tires on
the back, installed air-shocks in the back, and replaced the engine with a
1.6L 65 or 70HP engine from a late 70's era beetle. Had to grind out the
transmission housing to clear the pinion wheel on the clutch. The car was
very quick and handled very well after all that.
- Bill
When they are popular, I wanted a dune buggy. And considered converting my
bug into a buggy, but needed it as my daily driver. And, besides, I didn't
want to use a swing axle rear suspension for a buggy. Anyway, I never did
it.
I had a '64, 1.2L, 40HP, 6 volt bug. I put very large wheels and tires on
the back, installed air-shocks in the back, and replaced the engine with a
1.6L 65 or 70HP engine from a late 70's era beetle. Had to grind out the
transmission housing to clear the pinion wheel on the clutch. The car was
very quick and handled very well after all that.
- Bill
alv...@example.com
May 9, 2013, 3:47:54 PM5/9/13
to
> And, besides, I didn't want to use a swing axle rear suspension
> for a buggy. Anyway, I never did it.
The trick was to use the swing axle actually but put an old Bus-axle
> for a buggy. Anyway, I never did it.
in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when climbing a hill setup like a
Bug-axle will.
I could climb steep old cattle trails with a 40hp the other guys
with their powerful engines couldn't touch even with a fast head
start. It's rough and rocky around here and they'd have to slow down
at some point and that's when their Bug-axled dune buggy showed its
main flaw.
They'd get to a really steep spot and need to gas-it-a-little and
their Bug-axled-buggies would lift the nose so high, looked like it
was going to flip over backwards.
My second dune buggy just had a Bug-axle, never found a cheap enough
Bus-axle to put in it. :/ But sliding it around using the turning
brakes was better with that one tho. xD
> Had to grind out the transmission housing to clear the pinion
> wheel on the clutch.
Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the 12v
flywheel and ring gear would fit?
If so, BTDT. :)
Had the kids help me sweep up the shavings and piled 'em up and
set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
Alvin in AZ
Bill Leary
May 10, 2013, 12:11:39 AM5/10/13
to
wrote in message news:kmguh9$iqa$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> ((..omitted..))
places the engine/transmission mounting bolts go through. At those points
the inside of the bell housing swells towards the drive shaft by (if memory
serves) about an inch. I ground down those four points by about a quarter
of an inch each to clear the 65HP / 12v engine's flywheel. Maybe earlier
transmissions, or later engines, would have require more grinding. It was
mostly tedious. Put the engine in, turn it (or try to) with the crank, pull
it back out, see where they bound up, and do it again. I'd been cautioned
by the a VW mechanic who took interest in the project to grind away the
minimum possible. I think we test fit it four or five times until it
finally would spin without hitting anything.
> If so, BTDT. :)
Yes.
> Had the kids help me sweep up the shavings and piled 'em
> up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
I just vacuumed them out.
- Bill
>> And, besides, I didn't want to use a swing axle rear
>> suspension for a buggy. Anyway, I never did it.
>
> The trick was to use the swing axle actually but put an old
> Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when climbing a
> hill setup like a Bug-axle will.
Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of the axles?
>> suspension for a buggy. Anyway, I never did it.
>
> The trick was to use the swing axle actually but put an old
> Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when climbing a
> hill setup like a Bug-axle will.
> ((..omitted..))
>> Had to grind out the transmission housing to clear the
>> pinion wheel on the clutch.
>> pinion wheel on the clutch.
> Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the
> 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
Yes, but it wasn't cutting out the entire housing. There are the four
> 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
places the engine/transmission mounting bolts go through. At those points
the inside of the bell housing swells towards the drive shaft by (if memory
serves) about an inch. I ground down those four points by about a quarter
of an inch each to clear the 65HP / 12v engine's flywheel. Maybe earlier
transmissions, or later engines, would have require more grinding. It was
mostly tedious. Put the engine in, turn it (or try to) with the crank, pull
it back out, see where they bound up, and do it again. I'd been cautioned
by the a VW mechanic who took interest in the project to grind away the
minimum possible. I think we test fit it four or five times until it
finally would spin without hitting anything.
> If so, BTDT. :)
Yes.
> Had the kids help me sweep up the shavings and piled 'em
> up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
- Bill
alv...@example.com
May 10, 2013, 2:43:54 AM5/10/13
to
Bill Leary <Bill_...@msn.com> wrote:
> > ...put an old Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when
> > climbing a hill {...} like a Bug-axle will.
if you were converting a Bug transmission + differential to Bus.
^^that's the key to the whole thing, see it? :D
> > Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the
> > 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
> Yes, but {I} wasn't cutting out the entire housing.
> <snip>
> Maybe earlier transmissions,... would have require more grinding.
Yeah, that was the case with mine, a little bit all the way around
and more at the four bolt/stud holes.
> It was mostly tedious.
LOL! :) ...not on a dune buggy it wasn't. ;)
> Put the engine in....
...then pull it right back out again and take a look. ;)
Set the engine on an old metal milk-basket out of the way. xD
> I think we test fit it four or five times until it finally would
> spin without hitting anything.
Same here. :)
> > Had the kids help me {collect} the shavings and piled 'em
would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was
prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
Alvin in AZ
> > ...put an old Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when
> > climbing a hill {...} like a Bug-axle will.
>
> Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of
> the axles?
Yes and you had to put the ring on the opposite side of the pinion
> Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of
> the axles?
if you were converting a Bug transmission + differential to Bus.
^^that's the key to the whole thing, see it? :D
> > Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the
> > 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
> <snip>
> Maybe earlier transmissions,... would have require more grinding.
Yeah, that was the case with mine, a little bit all the way around
and more at the four bolt/stud holes.
> It was mostly tedious.
LOL! :) ...not on a dune buggy it wasn't. ;)
> Put the engine in....
...then pull it right back out again and take a look. ;)
Set the engine on an old metal milk-basket out of the way. xD
> I think we test fit it four or five times until it finally would
> spin without hitting anything.
> > Had the kids help me {collect} the shavings and piled 'em
> > up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
>
> I just vacuumed them out.
> - Bill
That would have been kind of "exiting" if the magnesium shavings
>
> I just vacuumed them out.
> - Bill
would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was
prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
Alvin in AZ
Bill Leary
May 10, 2013, 5:30:39 AM5/10/13
to
wrote in message news:kmi4va$n2l$1...@reader1.panix.com...
mechanically adept and (3) it never occurred to me.
>>> Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the
>>> 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
>
>> Yes, but {I} wasn't cutting out the entire housing.
>> <snip>
>> Maybe earlier transmissions,... would have require more grinding.
>
> Yeah, that was the case with mine, a little bit all the way around
> and more at the four bolt/stud holes.
It's *possible* I'm forgetting having to grind anywhere else. This was
decades ago.
>> It was mostly tedious.
>
> LOL! :) ...not on a dune buggy it wasn't. ;)
I imagine that would make it easier. Still, several of us owned more or
less contemporary bugs and we'd gotten to where we could get an engine out
or back in in minutes.
>> Put the engine in....
>
> ...then pull it right back out again and take a look. ;)
>
> Set the engine on an old metal milk-basket out of the way. xD
Oh, we just left it on the piece of plywood on the floor jack. The guy
holding the light held onto the engine with his other hand so it wouldn't
fall off. And we had the car parked with the back tires on cinder blocks,
which got it to a convenient height to slip the engine under the body at the
back.
>> I think we test fit it four or five times until it finally would
>> spin without hitting anything.
>
> Same here. :)
The mechanic talked as if it wasn't all *that* unusual, but to this day,
I've never encountered anyone else who actually did it.
>>> Had the kids help me {collect} the shavings and piled 'em
>>> up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
>>
>> I just vacuumed them out.
housing was made of (with?) magnesium. Well, maybe "exiting" is the right
word too. I imagine we'd have been out of that garage pretty damn fast if
that had happened.
> Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was
> prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
>
> http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
Seems handy. We just used an electric drill with a grinding wheel in it.
> It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
I imagine. What's the motor from? I can see "BARTLETT EQUIPMENT CO." on
it, but can't read anything else.
- Bill
> Bill Leary <Bill_...@msn.com> wrote:
>>> ...put an old Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when
>>> climbing a hill {...} like a Bug-axle will.
>>
>> Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of
>> the axles?
>
> Yes and you had to put the ring on the opposite side of the pinion
> if you were converting a Bug transmission + differential to Bus.
>
> ^^that's the key to the whole thing, see it? :D
Yes. But, in my case, (1) this was a street car (2) I wasn't that
>>> ...put an old Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when
>>> climbing a hill {...} like a Bug-axle will.
>>
>> Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of
>> the axles?
>
> Yes and you had to put the ring on the opposite side of the pinion
> if you were converting a Bug transmission + differential to Bus.
>
> ^^that's the key to the whole thing, see it? :D
mechanically adept and (3) it never occurred to me.
>>> Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the
>>> 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
>
>> Yes, but {I} wasn't cutting out the entire housing.
>> <snip>
>> Maybe earlier transmissions,... would have require more grinding.
>
> Yeah, that was the case with mine, a little bit all the way around
> and more at the four bolt/stud holes.
decades ago.
>> It was mostly tedious.
>
> LOL! :) ...not on a dune buggy it wasn't. ;)
less contemporary bugs and we'd gotten to where we could get an engine out
or back in in minutes.
>> Put the engine in....
>
> ...then pull it right back out again and take a look. ;)
>
> Set the engine on an old metal milk-basket out of the way. xD
holding the light held onto the engine with his other hand so it wouldn't
fall off. And we had the car parked with the back tires on cinder blocks,
which got it to a convenient height to slip the engine under the body at the
back.
>> I think we test fit it four or five times until it finally would
>> spin without hitting anything.
>
> Same here. :)
I've never encountered anyone else who actually did it.
>>> Had the kids help me {collect} the shavings and piled 'em
>>> up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
>>
>> I just vacuumed them out.
> That would have been kind of "exiting" if the magnesium shavings
> would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
Exciting? I suppose so. I don't recall being aware that the transmission
> would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
housing was made of (with?) magnesium. Well, maybe "exiting" is the right
word too. I imagine we'd have been out of that garage pretty damn fast if
that had happened.
> Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was
> prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
>
> http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
> It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
it, but can't read anything else.
- Bill
alv...@example.com
May 13, 2013, 11:27:25 PM5/13/13
to
Bill Leary <Bill_...@msn.com> wrote:
> > That would have been kind of "exiting" if the magnesium shavings
> > would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
> Exciting? I suppose so. I don't recall being aware that the
> transmission housing was made of magnesium. Well, maybe "exiting"
> > That would have been kind of "exiting" if the magnesium shavings
> > would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
> Exciting? I suppose so. I don't recall being aware that the
> is the right word too. I imagine we'd have been out of that
> garage pretty damn fast if that had happened.
Drag that baby outta the garage spray water on it the Mg takes the
> garage pretty damn fast if that had happened.
oxygen away from the H2 as if you were puring liquid oxygen on the
fire. See? ;) Exciting. LOL :)
> > Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was
> > prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
> > http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
> We just used an electric drill with a grinding wheel in it.
Yeah, since it ain't-aluminum, it prob'ly cut pretty good. :)
> > It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
>
> I imagine. What's the motor from? I can see "BARTLETT EQUIPMENT
> CO." on it, but can't read anything else.
> - Bill
Either used to clean the steel shoes or cut the drums??
I just got the motor from a yard sale really cheap cause the front
ball bearing was noisy. :)
-----------------
Engine cases are magnesium too. xD
Alvin in AZ
gail...@gmail.com
May 14, 2013, 10:54:05 AM5/14/13
to
On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 8:29:37 AM UTC-7, Jorge wrote:
> a neighbor with a '60 bug asked me how difficult it is to go 12 volt.
>
> I thought the starter was the worst of it.
>
> tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
>
> tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
>
> where can one get this?
>
> TIA
Been running the original 1958 6v starter in alfie for over 10 years since his conversion to 12v, with no issues..
> a neighbor with a '60 bug asked me how difficult it is to go 12 volt.
>
> I thought the starter was the worst of it.
>
> tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
>
> tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear?
>
> where can one get this?
>
> TIA
In my 54 I did the same thing, and sold the car after 15 years..
The car spins and starts instantly!
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