OT: Starting a new project... MB 190SL
Jan
Off topic but I thought I'd share...
I took delivery of a 1961 Mercedes SL190 last night, it's a side job for
an older gentleman who bought the car in 63. It is is dream car, but
sadly due to all sorts of circumstances, it was in an accident and has
been sitting outside since 1983. On dirt.
The plan is to bring it back to life as a reliable daily driver that
looks authentic. Doesn't need to be a 100% restoration, he wants to
drive it, thats all.
I'll post pictures later if anyone cares to see. It's a beautiful car.
Or was :D
I'll start with mechanical work first, but most likely metal work and
BONDO will follow later :D
Jan
Joey Tribiani
"Jan" <bug...@rocketmailDOT.com> wrote in message
news:7n2cq4F...@mid.individual.net...
> I'll post pictures later if anyone cares to see. It's a beautiful car. Or
> was :D
Please do, most of us here are "car" people that just happen to like the
vw's...
>
> and BONDO will follow later :D
>
If you need any advice on that, there's a resident expert in this
group....<G>
John Stafford
Jan <bug...@rocketmailDOT.com> wrote:
> Off topic but I thought I'd share...
>
> I took delivery of a 1961 Mercedes SL190 last night, it's a side job for
> an older gentleman who bought the car in 63. It is is dream car, but
> sadly due to all sorts of circumstances, it was in an accident and has
> been sitting outside since 1983. On dirt.
First thing - replace the engine and transmission with a modern V6 and
turbotrans.
Jan Andersson
Nah, this will be all original. Owner has a dual carb kit from a higher
end model SL for it that I may put on it. They have a tendency to get
loose and develop intake leaks however... need to fabricate a decent
support for the whole deal. But first let me see if I can make that
engine turn :)
Jan Andersson
Correction.. this engine came with duals but due to teh inherent
loosening problem they were replaced with a single from another MB
model. Engine ran great with it but lacked top end.
Whatever.
Here are some pictures from earlier this year, this is where it sat
since 83 or so. These pictures were taken after some initial cleaning
was already done. (Hard to believe, huh)
Jan Andersson
What saves the day here, is that the door pillars, doors and lids are
all aluminum... zero rust there :D
Tony W
>> http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/
>
>
> What saves the day here, is that the door pillars, doors and lids are
> all aluminum... zero rust there :D
Good thing. From the pix, it looks like a total rust bucket...
Tony
Jan Andersson
yea well... what can be rusted on it, IS. :D
But you wouldn't believe the thickness of these panels, it's unreal.
There are spots that were sanded down to metal when it was parked, and
are now covered in DEEP craters... but not through. Not even soft. It's
like hitting on solid friggin steel. You could probably sandblast it and
have more metal thickness left than on any modern car.
And yes, it makes the car very heavy, so they never were very fast. It
could have used the 6 cylinder engine of the more coveted and famous
bigger brother 300SL
Joey Tribiani
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7n3gfpF...@mid.individual.net...
> Here are some pictures from earlier this year, this is where it sat since
> 83 or so. These pictures were taken after some initial cleaning was
> already done. (Hard to believe, huh)
>
> http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/
looks like a very good project, Jan.... will be time consuming, no doubt,
but at least it's still intact and complete...
Max
Make the old guy happy, Jan!
Max
Rusty Shackelford
Those were really beautiful cars back in the day. If you get it close
to original it will be a really special daily driver. You've got a bit
of work ahead, but it look doable. Did the car stay intact enough to
keep water out of the passenger compartment all these years or do you
have rusted out floorpans to deal with as well?
Rusty Shackelford
If you've got rusted, pitted, but still thick sound metal, why not think
about using lead (really probably tin these days) filler on the cratered
rust instead of plastic filler? It's really not that hard (I've done it
myself) and it does restore *some* (but not all) structural integrity to
the panel. It is more permanent and more authentic to the era of the
vehicle. Body shops were still filling with lead when that car was new.
In fact some coach builders like Karmann were using lead to do seams
and such back then.
Eastwood sells a decent lead or tin filler kit. Tin takes a somewhat
hotter temperature to work (propane works but mapp gas works better as
does acetylene) but the good thing about tin is you can use regular
power sanders on it (can't do so with lead since tiny airborne particles
of lead are a *bad* thing).
Lead/Tin filling is a great skill to learn if you have ideas about
restoring truly valuable vintage cars.
Jan Andersson
I plan on doing just that, I have used lead for 10 years, and if I may
say so it, I'm pretty good with it :)
I use bondo for a super thin surface coat in areas that need it for
paint, not to build structure or thickness.
jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
I thought you won't touch a water-cooled with a 10 foot pole! lol
Yeah those classics have some flair to them!
The last MB I worked on was a 1953 RHD with Semaphores and maybe Suicide
Doors. It needed the center bearing for the driveshaft and had to be
ordered from Germany. This was back in 1979 IIRC.
Well it looks better that some cars I have seen up my way! It really
doesn't look bad!
Have fun and I agree with the metal filler on that heavy beast using the
Eastwood products!
Nothing like claiming that it is all metal and no BONDO! ;-)
My '71 911 had lead filler before I bought it.
--
later,
(One out of many daves)
"Rusty Shackelford" <ru...@arlen.com> wrote in message
news:6k3Pm.145063$5n1.51460@attbi_s21...
Kafe...@aol.com
The bad boy of VW
Jan
> Hey Jan Have you used All-Metal it really replaces leading,
>
> The bad boy of VW
>
Have not, I'll look into it, thanks. It's hard to imagine what would
truly replace leading...
jan
Joey Tribiani
"Jan" <bug...@rocketmailDOT.com> wrote in message
such... it's a metal laced BONDO, so to speak... Nothing replaces leading...
bodymen know that, you know that.... the dufus of VW doesn't...
Jan Andersson
Amazingly, all sparkplugs came out without a fight, and so did most of
the lugnuts. Most. Still have 4 that are stuck. Soaked them with PB and
I'll try again later.
BTW the tires hold air and the car even rolls freely. I told the owner
to NOT hit the brake pedal for any reason, when he has it flatbedded to
my house.
Joey Tribiani
> I told the owner
> to NOT hit the brake pedal for any reason, when he has it flatbedded to my
> house.
excellent advice, that can save you some work and trouble, and the owner
some money!
Rusty Shackelford
Ah, you are are a real restorer. I've done tin filling a few times and
I think I'm *pretty* good at it, but I haven't done it enough to say I
am a pro. Once you get the hang of controlling the temperature so that
the metal is *just* at the point of plasticity it's not that hard to do.
Love to hear what you're saying about plastic fillers (bondo). People
should really think of bondo as a really thick coat of paint, no more.
Some folks just get crazy with the stuff and end up with something that
is not a long term restoration.
Jan Andersson
Yes well that is the hard part, LOL. On vertical surfaces.... not so
easy. I have had good luck with a metal spatula, I can bring heat to the
backside of the spatula and press it against the lead, and I can feel it
starting to give when it gets soft. Sort of indirect heat that's easier
to control. Oh yea the spatula is lightly oiled with veggie oil.
> Love to hear what you're saying about plastic fillers (bondo). People
> should really think of bondo as a really thick coat of paint, no more.
> Some folks just get crazy with the stuff and end up with something that
> is not a long term restoration.
The greatest benefit with leading is that the metal underneath HAS to be
spotless. It won't stick to rusty or dirty metal. So it sort of forces
you to do proper metal work first, can't use lead to hide rust, can't
take shortcuts. Even the darkened surface right at a fresh weld seam has
to be polished up. :)
Oh yea, I have also used "Spray filler". Like bondo in a spray can. It's
thicker than primer, sands great and if the colors you are working with
are different enough, it will reveal imperfections. You sand it and go
through high spots, while leaving filler in low spots. Some call it a
"sanding color" but that may actually be a different product still. Same
idea. Goes on after primer.
Rusty Shackelford
You never said what the floors of your MB 190SL looks like? Did the
windows and doors stay intact enough to keep water out of the inside of
the car? Seems whenever I find a really cool car some kid threw a rock
through a window 15 years ago and it's been routinely getting rainwater
inside the passenger compartment and the floor is shot. What does the
floor of this car look like?
Really cool project. Gotta love those 190s.
Jan Andersson
Haven't built up enough courage to go inside. (bugs). Windows are all
intact and have been closed all this time. But it was parked on a dirt
driveway, so I don't know. It had slowly sunken into the ground up to
the brake drums, probably axles or floor pan stopped it from sinking
deeper :D Have not looked underneath either. I plan on getting it up on
jackstands as soon as I get the last 4 lugnuts off.
Got the trunk open. Found the front grille, some hubcaps, body chrome,
new (they WERE, in early 80's) front shocks, and some other stuff I
don't know what they are yet. Haven't pulled anything out. (bugs).
Upon opening the lid, something jumped out and ran for cover. (bug).
Yea. I'll bug-bomb it again.
Rusty Shackelford
Speaking of lead filling, it seems that you've done quite a bit of it.
I was just curious as to what you like to use as a heat source. I'm
using Tin, which has a higher melting point than Lead, and I've found
that a regular propane torch is just a little bit under powered. I've
gone to using Mapp Gas, and it works fairly well (though it is more
expensive than propane). I understand that some people use acetylene,
but I would think you would want a torch head that gives a rather broad
flame, something that I haven't had much luck finding. Most acetylene
torch heads are optimized for cutting or welding, which requires a very
high heat in a fairly small area. Any tips?
Thanks
Jan Andersson
I use the lead mix that has lead and tin in it. It has lower melting
point that plain tin (or what is said to be tin with no lead). Just
before I moved out of Finland, I started hearing rumors about the
government phasing out lead filler, and something else (tin based) would
replace it. <sigh>.
I haven't tried the new tin-type rods yet. I'm kinda worried because of
the higher temp required. So no, I have no answer for you :(
Let me know if you find something that works well. You are right, broad
flame and not overly hot. Easy to control and move around. Acetylene is
out of the question.
I've been using a propane torch with lead.
I'll ask our bodyshop guys what they know, the next time I see them.
Jan Andersson
A small update.
The valve cover is HUGE, and held on by just two 8mm bolts.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02944.jpg
Opened the oil fill cap and took a peek inside... uh oh. Doesn't look
promising.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02945.jpg
Go the cover off... in about 10 seconds. And found this.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02946.jpg
Funny, those two allen head bolts are still wet with oil.
Oh well. It's ok. :)
I can fix that :D
Jan
Joey Tribiani
oxy/acetylene with a "rosebud" tip(available in various sizes) works very
good... but you can easily overheat the panel
dave AKA vwdoc1
molasses
even soda pop (some root beers like A&W have molasses in them) might help
you with a cheaper solution to remove that rust!
My daughter did a science project using apple cider vinegar and root beer
separately. Both took the rust off some 42+ year old rusty lug bolts that
were in my garage. Vinegar worked the quickest but the root beer was
effective too!
The lug bolts are back to rust free condition. They are black and no
scrubbing has been done yet.
I was impressed since all she had to do was soak them and the rust literally
flaked off within days!
She also tried baking soda in water and the bolts still look the same only
wetter! lol
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/vinegar/index.htm
http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/5vin.html
"Paint adheres better to galvanized metal that's been wiped with vinegar"
http://virtualindian.org/projrust.htm
http://www.syrupmakers.com/rust/
http://antiqueautoranch.com/montana500/adrian/rust.html
and they briefly thought about molasses here! lol
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0901_rust_removal_guide/index.html
I prefer that safer methods and wish I could immerse my '70 Beetle in root
beer! lol
Someone has tried the hose flowing the solution over larger rusty car parts
but the process was taking way too long.
NOW I read about Ketchup and Mayonaise! 8^o
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=15708
Hmmmm I have got to try Ketchup from those little packets from McDonalds on
some rust spots.
It should stay put too!
AND spray your clean & rust free parts with some Marvel Mystery oil. I do
that with engines that I am rebuilding!
Have fun with your new project and keep us informed!!!
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nbevhF...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
Cool ideas.
The lugnuts are off and So are all exhaust/intake manifold nuts. Those
came off easy, phew! Next thing to do is to pop the head off.
Well before that I need to figure out where the chain tensioner is and
how to get the chain off 8)
I could cut it of course.. looks like I'll be getting a new one anyways.
Jan
Jan Andersson
unreal.. even the exhaust flange bolts came off with basic hand tools,
none of the 3 snapped or stripped? LOL
The exhaust flange itself won't come apart. Argh. Soaking in PB now...
P.J.Berg
It would probably start even in that condition..
J.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jan Andersson
got the cam off, had to cut the exhaust pipe because it wouldn't
separate from the manifold.
Crank won't turn. Head is about ready to come off, just need to make
sure there are no more hidden bolts and such.
Jan Andersson
No pictures yet, wife took the camera and went to sing with her band.
I got the head off. Combustion chambers and valves (seen from teh
chamber side) look surprisingly good.
Two pistons were almost at TDC, and two were down. The cylinder walls on
the two that were exposed, had ZERO rust on them???!! That was
encouraging. LOTS of crap on top of piston #1, less on the others.
Soaking in PB and WD40 now. I'll probably try to tap each piston with a
hammer to shock them loose, and then see if the crank would turn.
I think it's safe to say this engine will run again. Now I need to start
putting together an estimate for the engine rebuild. The shortblock
only has 50k miles on it, I don't think it needs anything. Will see.
Jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
Did you have to cut the timing chain?
I wonder why the crank still isn't turning!
I prefer Marvel Mystery Oil over PB and Water Displacement 40!
SeaFoam should help free up any carbon on parts.
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote >
Jan Andersson
moderate cussing, and the tensioner, and it gave me enough room to pull
the cam sprocket off with the chain still on it. Easy from there on.
I think the rings have rusted to the cylinders and that's why it's not
turning.
PB and WD40 is all I had at home and I didn't feel like going out to get
anything else. Staying home with 2 kids..
If the engine still wont' turn tomorrow, I'll probably put the car on
jackstands, drop the oil pan, and see if I can disconnect the rods from
the crank. It would allow me to see if the crank would turn even just a
little bit without the rods. I'll know if it's the pistons or the crank
that is stuck. And if there's enough room, I may be able to whack the
pistons down in the cylinder and knock the rings loose, one piston at a
time. Once they break loose, I think they would easily move either way.
The engine is still in the car, but I think it will need to come out to
allow room for some metal work in the engine bay.
With the car up in the air, I can also start looking at the brakes.
Jan
Jan Andersson
New pix:
Exhaust and intake ports are on the same side. Cam is off, rockers look
ok and move ok, a couple of them are a bit stiff on their shaft but
they'll be ok.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02950.jpg
Valves and chambers look ok, wonder what the seats look like. Haven't
removed valves yet. The chamber shapes are really weird... looks like
the quench area of the chamber goes outside of the cylinder bore :D And
there is a pocket in the head for the exhaust valve, deeply recessed
above the quench deck... and that's where the spark plug is. I wonder
what the idea here was.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02953.jpg
And then the cylinders. The liquid had not gone anywhere overnight. I
was sort of hoping it would have seeped through past the rings somehow.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02954.jpg
I'll try to get the pistons out today, and start working on the brakes.
dave AKA vwdoc1
I use PB blaster as a sacrificial penetrant but the newer stuff just doesn't
seem as effective as the original PB! :-(
They will free up!!! (positive attitude) lol
I wonder how some soda pop would have worked? ;-)
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7negpjF...@mid.individual.net...
P.J.Berg
I would remove the WD-40(Water Dispersant) and use something more
aggressive.
If you can't buy a penetrant that works try some lemon juice, as in the
concentrate you use in tea.
It will at least need to sit overnight though. Another fluid you could try
are the rust converters, contains Muratic acid. You will need to keep an
eye on it though as it will start to react with aluminium alloy of the
pistons.
Why is everything so extremely corroded? Has the car been sitting close to
the sea? You could find forest-wrecks up here that would look new compared
to this car.
Jan Andersson
The car spent several years up north where the rusting started. Then
sitting for almost 3 decades down here in extremely HUMID Florida did
the rest.
And I have no money for any other penetrants until I get a deposit from
the owner. Kind of have to use what I have laying around.
I don't want to convert the rust in the engine. I want to break the
parts loose and then remove the rust.
Lemon juice is reserved for rum & coke ;)
P.J.Berg
<bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote:
I know, you could still try the rust converter as it is aggressive enough
to eat most things in its way.
J.
>
>
> Lemon juice is reserved for rum & coke ;)
The Busman
that around.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428473
Andy
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ng38fF...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
As a matter of fact, I do!
Thanks for the tip.
Jan
Jan Andersson
Got the drums off. It was way too easy. They put 3 M8 threaded bolt
holes through the face of the drum so you can turn bolts through them
that bottom out on the hub and push the drum off. 1-2-3 and they were
all out. And to my surprise, they look flawless. These can go right back
into service untouched! I'll check for warpage of course, and treat the
outside. The shoes are a bit worn but they'd work in a pinch. Everything
looks dry.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02957.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02958.jpg
I have to admit though, I had some professional help:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02956.jpg
Although sometimes I had my doubts about his professionalism:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02960.jpg
Some shots showing rust holes in the fender wells and pan area... pretty
much needs all new floorpans
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02960.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02971.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02974.jpg
Looks like the oil pan would come out pretty easy.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02972.jpg
Jan Andersson
first one I'm doing. One piston moves a little with compressed air, but
not enough to come out. The other went in but won't come back out at
all. Feels like there's a wall they are both hitting when you drive them
in, so I may not be able to push them through from one side to the other.
Also need to disconnect a steering rod from under the oil pan to be able
to drop the pan, and I didn't have my pickleforks at home. The one joint
puller I had was too big.
Oh well. No biggie. A grease gun should pop the pistons out.
Tony W
> You could also try a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF fluid if you have any of
> that around.
> http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428473
> Andy
That reminds me of the home brew gun cleaner Ed's Red. It's equal parts
ATF, acetone, mineral spirits and kerosene. It's a great solvent and
penetrant.
Tony
Tom Malmevik
>
> Got the drums off. It was way too easy. They put 3 M8 threaded bolt
> holes through the face of the drum so you can turn bolts through them
> that bottom out on the hub and push the drum off. 1-2-3 and they were
> all out. And to my surprise, they look flawless. These can go right back
> into service untouched! I'll check for warpage of course, and treat the
> outside. The shoes are a bit worn but they'd work in a pinch. Everything
> looks dry.
>
> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02957.jpg
>
> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02958.jpg
Hey Jan. I notice in the pictures that the springs have "spacer" in
them. Usually indicative of weak sagging springs that need replacement.
This is one hell of a project car. Good luck. And personally, I would
have the drums turned anyway.........
--
the Grokdoc....Tom Malmevik
all that groks is god
IBA # 23337....ISRA # 3736
03 Silverado "shewolf"
67 Baja "marti"
Unchained Brotherhood MC
P.J.Berg
How about towing the car somewhere and have it cleaned with a high
pressure water (forgotten the name)?
Would make it a tad more pleasant to work with.
And, the laundry does NOT go on the garage floor. :o}
P.J.Berg
<bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote:
> First minor setbacks. Can't get the wheel cylinder pistons out from the
> first one I'm doing. One piston moves a little with compressed air, but
> not enough to come out. The other went in but won't come back out at
> all. Feels like there's a wall they are both hitting when you drive them
> in, so I may not be able to push them through from one side to the other.
>
> Also need to disconnect a steering rod from under the oil pan to be able
> to drop the pan, and I didn't have my pickleforks at home. The one joint
> puller I had was too big.
You can get by without the joint-puller. Use two large hammers and hit the
female part of the joint at 180 deg. simultaneously, this shocks the
conical bind and it will come loose after a few tries.
J.
>
> Oh well. No biggie. A grease gun should pop the pistons out.
Jan Andersson
> Jan Andersson wrote:
>>
>> Got the drums off. It was way too easy. They put 3 M8 threaded bolt
>> holes through the face of the drum so you can turn bolts through them
>> that bottom out on the hub and push the drum off. 1-2-3 and they were
>> all out. And to my surprise, they look flawless. These can go right
>> back into service untouched! I'll check for warpage of course, and
>> treat the outside. The shoes are a bit worn but they'd work in a
>> pinch. Everything looks dry.
>>
>> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02957.jpg
>>
>> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02958.jpg
>
> Hey Jan. I notice in the pictures that the springs have "spacer" in
> them. Usually indicative of weak sagging springs that need replacement.
> This is one hell of a project car. Good luck. And personally, I would
> have the drums turned anyway.........
Yea he said the rear sagged so those rubber spacers were installed.
I wont' turn the drums unless they need it, that just removes material
unnecessarily and makes the brakes a tiny bit weaker... that's how drum
brakes work. I don't know how close to the limit they are now, don't
have the specs yet.
dave AKA vwdoc1
Those pistons should free up and there will be excellent compression again.
Do you have a heat gun to warm up the pistons and cylinders up a little?
I have used a heat gun to warm up parts along with some rust penetrant
successfully!
I would sop/soak up some of that solution before using the heat gun though!
Or poof! lol
GOOD VENTILATION PLEASE!
Tapping with a wide piece of wood might help free those pistons up one at a
time.
LIGHT TAPPING ONLY!
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nf9oiF...@mid.individual.net...
Max
> > And then the cylinders. The liquid had not gone anywhere overnight. I was
> > sort of hoping it would have seeped through past the rings somehow.
>
Shop vac should make short work of that fluid.
Max
Jan Andersson
LOL yea I imagine so, but I wanted it to go to the rings :)
Jan Andersson
The left side brakes came apart today. With minor injuries to my wrist
as the *wrong side* piston shot out under compressed air :D Didn't
expect that to budge, as it hadn't moved before. I need to find that
darn thing, it took off like a bullet.
Anyways. Rear cylinder looked a little scary before cleaning and honing:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02978.jpg
But it turned out ok, still need to put a finishing touch on it:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02983.jpg
Fronts were not so bad. There's two cylinders per wheel.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02984.jpg
I haven't pulled the master cylinder out yet. I noticed one cool thing
about it: it has a bleeder screw at the end of it :)
P.J.Berg
Can you still repair kits for those wheel cylinders?
Keep the pictures coming good someone keeps the group alive, even if
watercooled content. :o)
Did you buy a house or are you renting?
Would be nice to have a proper garage.
Jan Andersson
renting the house my wife lived in when she was 16 :)
Love the garage. It would be a 2 car garage, but half of it is filled
with junk and clothes. Yes the clothes and other fabrics you saw on the
floor. A pile fell down. There's a lot of stuff that needs to go to Good
Will. But nobody ever takes them there!! Then there's random pieces of
fabrics, samples and leftovers from Kidd and her mom making handbags and
stuff.
I have an Isuzu Rodeo coming in as a quick side job too, will have to do
that outside on the driveway. And it's almost winter! Well... +25C isn't
that cold :D The Rodeo will get all new brakes, rotors, calipers,
pads... and later on the same car will get new lifters, rockers, rocker
shafts. (clackity clackity clackity). The rocker shafts wear out so bad
the hydraulic lifters can't make up the slack.
Anyway. Yea. Look how low I have sunken. Watercooled crap.
At least I get to mess with aircooled stuff at work :) Even if it's
products inferior to VW. ;)
Jan Andersson
Got the stupid oil pan off and 3 pistons out. #1 is still stuck in the
cylinder.. it has moved maybe an inch so far, up and down.. but it's
just not coming out. The top of the piston is level with the top of the
block. These darn things have 3 compression rings too, and they are
really tall.
Got a bag of ice laying on top of the piston now... we'll see if that
does anything.
Jan Andersson
A bag of ice sitting on top of the piston seemed to help a little.
I got the last piston out.
Rod bearings look really good, the cylinder walls have some minor
surface rust here and there, that can be easily honed out. This engine
block has only 50k miles on it, which shouldn't be much for it if the
engine was put together right. No ridge at the top of the bore.
I'll take a look at the crank bearings but since everything seemed to be
still coated with oil, I don't expect to see anything wrong. Chances are
I will reuse the existing crank bearings and never take the crank out.
P.J.Berg
Good news.
Save yourself the hassle and leave the crank alone, if the rod bearings
look good so should the crank bearings.
Have you got a cabinet for washing parts?
Jan Andersson
I'll sneak them to work little by little where I have two parts washers
and a glass beading cabinet ;)
Jan
Bill Berckman
you have your work cut out for you, but the good thing is you are
doing something that you enjoy doing.
On Nov 24, 10:28 pm, Jan <bugf...@rocketmailDOT.com> wrote:
> Off topic but I thought I'd share...
>
> I took delivery of a 1961 Mercedes SL190 last night, it's a side job for
> an older gentleman who bought the car in 63. It is is dream car, but
> sadly due to all sorts of circumstances, it was in an accident and has
> been sitting outside since 1983. On dirt.
>
> The plan is to bring it back to life as a reliable daily driver that
> looks authentic. Doesn't need to be a 100% restoration, he wants to
> drive it, thats all.
>
> I'll post pictures later if anyone cares to see. It's a beautiful car.
> Or was :D
>
> I'll start with mechanical work first, but most likely metal work and
> BONDO will follow later :D
>
> Jan
Jan Andersson
I remember having a plastic toy 190Sl when I was a little kid. I loved
that car. I swear it was blue too.
The owner wants to keep the original light blue color. It's not bad, but
I saw one in silver, and man that looked good...!
And yes, this is a welcome change to the never ending boring Porsches I
have to wrench on every day :D
Jan
Jan Andersson
dave AKA vwdoc1
HOW did you clean off that rust and all?
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nv6u8F...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
Glass bead blaster
400, 600 and 1000 grit wet sanding paper
Ospho acid treatment on the shaft, but not on the lobes or bearing
surfaces.
Oh this thing uses no bearings.
Jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
Keep us updated!
BTW do you ever need any old Porsche (pre-70) parts?
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nvn0sF...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
We do all kinds of porsches daily, mostly aircooled and from 50's to mid
80's, and some later model stuff thrown in everynow and then, boxsters,
cayennes, whatever. The shop has stayed away from watercooled modern
stuff until I joined, now we are expanding. It's an old skool shop like
that :D Needed a young punk like me (37) who understands modern
technology as well as old mechanical schtuff.
Oh just pulled the brake master cylinder. Would you believe, brake line,
bleeder and mounting bolts all came loose as if it was a new car. No PB
Blaster, no cussing, no stripped or snapped fasteners, no bruised
knuckles. I did have to pop the piston out with air, but that was to be
expected at least. Some minor rust or caked on crud in the cylinder,
cleaned right out when I honed it.
jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
You are fortunate that the car resides down there. Up here there would be
little left of it IF it was left outside for that many years. My buddy has
about four 356s that need restoration. The convertible D is almost finished
but has not been touched in maybe 20 years. I guess he is in no rush! lol
Just have fun with your extra projects!
dave
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7o0978F...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
stock spec) $85 plus shipping both ways.
Did some initial cleaning on the head...
Before:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02946.jpg
After:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03004.jpg
It also has a funky inline brake booster, some american cars used a
similar setup... uses vacuum from the intake manifold but has no
mechanical connection to the master cylinder, just brake fluid lines
between single circuit master and distribution block:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03005.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03006.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03007.jpg
Tony W
can really see the similarities.
Does that cam resurfacing place also do cam followers?
Tony
John Willis
too had heard that it was copied from MB. I had a '76 Datsun 280Z for
a while. It had a tragic ending. I wasn't there at the time, but Scott
can fill you in on those details. He had a somewhat difficult drive to
work one day!:~(
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:12:28 -0800, Tony W <techn...@yahoo.com>
scribbled this interesting note:
--
John Willis
jdwill...@airmail.net
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Tony W
for another one but I took up motorcycle riding again and that has
filled the nice the Z did in my life.
The Nissan straight 6 was a tough engine and they used it in a bunch of
applications.
Back on topic, my bug is still running like crap but it's too cold to
work on it... I'm going to put on a new cap and rotor for shits and
giggles and see if that helps.
Tony
Jan Andersson
could do those too? I just don't need it.
Jan
Tony W
compromised.
Tony
Jan Andersson
The friction surfaces on the rockers were clean and shiny for some reason.
The oil in the engine was Kendall, last oil change was done about
1000miles ago... that's 25+ years ago that is :D
It was just the cam lobes that were immediately under the oil fill cap
that had rust buildup on them, bad enough to leave a pitted surface
after cleaning the rust off. Everything else cleaned up nicely. Didn't
need to do much.
Tony W
> The friction surfaces on the rockers were clean and shiny for some reason.
>
> The oil in the engine was Kendall, last oil change was done about
> 1000miles ago... that's 25+ years ago that is :D
> It was just the cam lobes that were immediately under the oil fill cap
> that had rust buildup on them, bad enough to leave a pitted surface
> after cleaning the rust off. Everything else cleaned up nicely. Didn't
> need to do much.
If the guy had turned the engine over once a year, he would could have
saved a bunch on the project...
Tony
Jan Andersson
Wonder what that comes out to in RPMS..... LOL.. mAth heads go at it :)
I agree. I have a friend start up and warm up my beetle engine at least
once a year for me still, back in Finland. The engine has maybe 500-1000
miles on it.
I can't help but wonder how the valve springs have survived, some having
been compressed for 25+ years. I'll look for new parts and try to make
him understand why it would be a good idea to replace the valves and
springs. I don't know the history of the head. If those are the original
valves from 1961, I think it may be time to replace them. I'd hate to
see him lose the engine due to a failed spring or snapped valve.
Jan Andersson
Nothing much to report... been a little slow, mostly cleaning and glass
beading, painting individual parts. Waiting for a portable blaster to
arrive... Ordered one from Harbor Freight for $28 or so :D Just got home
from the shop where I blasted a tote bin full of parts tonight. More
painting to follow tomorrow.
I'll put some pictures up later.
The next step is to order some brake parts so I can redo the brakes
completely.
Metal work will soon need to be started too. Means I will need to get a
welder soon.. I am not sure if I need to take the engine out, I may need
to get it and the trans out of the way to be able to do a proper job
with the floor pans and all the rust underneath and in the engine bay.
So I won't be putting the engine back together yet, the external parts
would just take up too much room.
I will also try to find a place where I could have the whole car
sandblasted, at least the underside.
dave AKA vwdoc1
http://my356porsches.tripod.com
Now these are real projects! lol
Did you read any of the reviews on the yahoo harbor freight tool newsgroup?
I like the 115V Lincoln MIG welder since it is even easy for me to weld with
and the spool of wire seems almost endless! <:-)
Have you tried molasses or vinegar to remove rust? Drop the parts in a
container with a diluted solution of one or the other and let the rust
dissolve. TEST FIRST please!
Also FYI, at least up here, there are individuals that come to your site to
media blast large items like vehicles!
Do you like Eastwood products or POR-15 stuff?
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7oj7f7F...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
200A peak and I think 150A easy. Not quite like my old 400A Esab, but it
should get the job done. I'd also get a spool gun for aluminum :)
All for just under $1200. Now to find someone to pay it for me ;)
Oh still need to get a bottle. No not that kind, I mean the shield gas
for welding. Oh what the heck, the other kind too!
Haven't tried vinegar. I've done quite a bit of electrolysis rust
removal though. But I really like a glass beader.
The blaster thing I'm getting is small enough for me to switch out the
media real quick, depending on what I want to do. Got sand and glass
media waiting for it.
Back in Finland there was a sand blasting truck service that came to
your house with a big truck and blasted anything you wanted. I didn't
use them, since there was an industrial shop on my street that did sand
blasting with some HEAVY duty equipment. Like a fire hose, trailer
compressor, and a tall 2-story silo for sand...
I like POR15.
I'll probably be ordering some lead from Eastwood, I'll take a look at
what else they have.
Jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
I liked it when Topline used to glassbead the aircooled VW engine parts but
they stopped using it since they had trouble cleaning all of the glass bead
media out of the parts. Heck they stopped remanufacturing the aircooled
stuff and sold their machinery to Mofoco. 8^o
Glass beading would really polish up the parts and make them shine like new.
;-)
NOW it seems to be paint that most places use. :-(
Have fun!
One out of many daves
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7okljsF...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
that the car be delivered stripped down to a bare shell, and it would
then be mounted on a rotisserie. First quote for blasting EVERYTHING,
underneath, trunk, inside, body panels etc... $2500.
Then I asked if they'd do just the underside, fender wells and maybe
outer body panels from knee height down. $1300. Still needs to arrive
completely stripped.
I don't think the car needs to be stripped to the last nut and bolt, it
would take so much time that I'd have to charge a lot more for labor,
and it just won't fit in the budget. And this is not a show car
restoration.
The owner was just at my house, saw the progress and ordered some parts
online. He was very happy to see what I had done so far, and to be able
to start getting parts.
Now getting quotes and cost estimates for different ways to get it blasted.
Kafe...@aol.com
>
> >>>> I will also try to find a place where I could have the whole car
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey Jan have you looked into chemical stripping? I had a 59 done, it
came out to about $1200 for everything but the doors.
The sandblast place here gave me a quote of around $1000 to do a
complete beetle inside and out???
Jan Andersson
I'll look into chemical too for the outer body.
What's nice about the underside, is that it doesn't appear to have any
undercoating. Just flaking rust everywhere.
I don't know what to do about the doors and lids yet, as they are all
aluminum. I wouldn't want to damage them with wrong chemicals.
dave AKA vwdoc1
space!!!! <BG>
$1300-2500
I could rent the equipment (portable air compressor), build a booth out of
tarps, buy safety equipment (cough cough) and save some money. Might even
line up someone else who wants their vehicle blasted to share costs. ;-)
If I had the space I would take one of those 356s or my Beetle and get busy
with it. <g>
That place might have to deal with environmental regulations. :-(
No places are willing to come to you and do what you want that know what
they are doing?
Did you try some body shops for leads?
You can mask over areas that you don't want to be blasted.
I have blasted the inside of my '65 Porsche with my small 5hp single stage
air compressor and Craftsman blaster. SLOW due to the small compressor.
Thinking out loud here.
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7p2u38...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
What I want to do, is buy a bigger compressor and a pressurized blaster
tank and do it myself. I wouldn't need to strip the car down to a shell,
just the parts that turn out to be in the way. I would know what to be
careful with, and I could spend DAYS blasting everything I can think of.
I'm sure I would be more thorough and more careful than a commercial
service who charges by the hour. ($80 an hour as it turns out).
I would not charge by the hour. Most likely I would settle for the cost
of the equipment!
It would allow me to do much more blasting in the future, like my Nova
which is next in line for some extensive metal repairs.
Jan Andersson
Oil pan. Still had plenty of oil in it. And sludge.
Before:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02985.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03052.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03053.jpg
After:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03067.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03068.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03069.jpg
Cleanup revealed a crack
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03070.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03071.jpg
Yea, I'm looking to get a MIG welder with a spool gun to weld aluminum ;)
Brake master cylinder
Before
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02996.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02999.jpg
after
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03003.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03074.jpg
Distributor, valve cover and brake booster
Before
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02944.jpg
After
distributor:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03073.jpg
Valve cover:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03075.jpg
Brake booster:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03076.jpg
Front brake backing plate
Before
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02962.jpg
After (sandblasted, primered and painted in place to save cost&time)
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03058.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03061.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03063.jpg
dave AKA vwdoc1
looks good & on the path to progress!
How are those aluminum rods that only need a brush and propane gas for that
oil pan crack?
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7p5bme...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
never tried those alu repair sticks. Since it's a no stress area, it
might work ok. But, this is one more reason to BUY A COOL TOOL. I can't
fight that with reason. :D
Jan
dave AKA vwdoc1
just one crack......it was more like a piece about to break off after I got
the pan cleaned off. So the repair might have been attempted without
removal, but decided for liability reasons, and repair longevity, to sell a
new oil pan.
I can imagine the owner hitting that same area again! lol
One day I will pick some sticks and play with them on something!
TG I don't "need" to deal with aluminum welding even though I do have a MIG
welder already.
I am just a novice welder! <:-)
And keep us informed with this project!!!! ;-)
Happy Holidays!
One out of many daves
"Jan Andersson" <bug...@spamtrap.rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:7p5lsv...@mid.individual.net...
Jan Andersson
Progress has been slow during the holidays with this project, just
finished rear brake drum. Got the front cylinders done but the shoes are
still out.
So here's the story of the rear drum brake.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02957.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02958.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02978.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02983.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03078.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03081.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03082.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03153.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC03154.jpg
I did get a pressurized 110lb sandblasting tank from Harbor Freight.
Haven't used it yet for more than a few seconds to test it. Looks
promising.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95014
Then I used the box to make a Jeep for the kids
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/Stuff/DSC03150.jpg
I know, I know. Too many grille slots. It's to prevent them from suing
me. :D
Kafe...@aol.com
longer avalible for it?
I'm working on the 52 MGtf and can not find differential gears.
So hows the personal projects comming?...lol
Bad boy of VW
65ez camper F/S
Jan
So far everything has been available, but I do have to hunt for some
stuff. Why is it that nobody seems to carry a complete tuneup kit, like
points, condensor, plugs, wires, cap, rotor? Just those items have to
come from 3 different vendors :D
I would think that if you carry a distributor cap and rotor, you might
also have a condensor and maybe points... LOL.
I'm also running into parts that were changed somewhere in the middle of
the production run, but it has proven impossible to find a reliable way
to tell which type this car needs, you have to measure and compare
everything to be sure. Wheel bearings, motor mounts, timing chain and
guide rails... brake cylinder rebuild kits too.
My own projects... are on ice indefinitely. Well this MB project is
going to pay for a sandblaster, compressor, welder...... ;)
THEN I can work on my own vehicles.
The black convertible is still in Finland, don't have $3000 loose change
right now. :(
As for the "other" projects... no more kids in the making :D
jan
Rusty Shackelford
>
>
> Cam before:
>
> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02946.jpg
>
>
>
> Cam after cleanup:
>
> http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/bugfuel/MB190SL/DSC02995.jpg
Jan,
Can you give me some detail on what you did to clean that cam up? I
have a VW cam (NOS at that) that has some surface rust that I need to
clean up. Did you hit it with glass beads or some other media?
Thanks,
Jan
Yea, glass beaded it in a cabinet.
I was being careful not to hit the lobes or bearing surfacxes, you could
protect those with masking tape before blasting.
I cleaned those separately with wet sanding paper, scotch brite etc...
I also treated the non-machined surfaces with Ospho to prevent future
rusting, but I guess that's overkill, considering the cam is pretty well
oilede when in the engine :D
Unless the owner lets it sit for another 25+ years after I put it back
together... lol