Timing chain failure?
Moitz
at 72,000.
Wednesday night, my wife said her car was making "noise." I had her
check the oil, it was fine. I figured it was an exhaust leak (been
about 3 years since we last did the exhaust), so told her just keep
driving, but drive gently.
It sat outside overnight (low of 13 F), then when she left for work in
the morning, she got about two blocks from our apartment, and said she
heard a loud "snap," "something hitting something else", and the car
died and wouldn't restart. I looked at it just to check that it wasn't
the serpentine belt (fine), tried to start it, and when it turns over it
sounds odd (like I'm not getting compression in all cylinders) and
there's a rattling noise from her valves. This is the end of the
diagnostics I've done on it.
Is it worth my time to pull the valve cover and see if the chain broke,
or from the description can someone verify this?
-moitz-
@yunx.com Joe Dufu
comment on the work involved though... Much success to you!
--
Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Ask me about "The Ride" on July 31, '04:
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm
I'm not a total idiot... I am after all, missing parts.
"Moitz" <meuz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1kkOb.88593$8H.132878@attbi_s03...
BANDIT2941
>the morning, she got about two blocks from our apartment, and said she
>heard a loud "snap," "something hitting something else", and the car
>died and wouldn't restart. I looked at it just to check that it wasn't
>the serpentine belt (fine), tried to start it, and when it turns over it
>sounds odd (like I'm not getting compression in all cylinders) and
>there's a rattling noise from her valves. This is the end of the
>diagnostics I've done on it.
>
>Is it worth my time to pull the valve cover and see if the chain broke,
>or from the description can someone verify this?
Does sound like the chain broke. Pull the valve cover and see if the cam is
turning. The rattling noise is likely pistons hitting valves.
Moitz
> Does sound like the chain broke. Pull the valve cover and see if the cam is
> turning. The rattling noise is likely pistons hitting valves.
Well, I yanked the valve cover today...borken timing chain. The only
work involved in this is towing it to a junkyard and buying a new car
for her. With 162,000 on it, I really don't think it's worth slapping a
new engine in it.
I wasn't aware that back in '92 cars were made with interference engines
using chains. I've got a '91 Accord which is also an interference
engine, but it uses a belt. Seeing as my belt gets replaced every
90,000 miles, and apparently the chain is supposed to be as well, is
there really any advantage to a chain?
-moitz-
Jonnie Santos
when it's in for service (oil change, etc).
I've heard different lifespans for belts and Honda's - I like belts for
their quietness, especially at higher rpm's. I guess in theory if you kept
a car for 100k the chain system would still be original and the belt system
would have cost you a replacement at 90k. The chain would be cheaper in
that example.
Congrats to your wife - a new car is a great way to start the new year!
(smile)
"Moitz" <meuz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E7COb.94096$8H.138021@attbi_s03...
Robert Hancock
seems early to have timing chain problems.. plus it seems like they usually
make noise for a while before they break (which it sounds like it did here,
at least for some length of time..)
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
"Moitz" <meuz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E7COb.94096$8H.138021@attbi_s03...
Jonnie Santos
poster was referring to. He had 162k on the Saturn.
"Robert Hancock" <hanc...@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:5LEOb.161814$JQ1.32648@pd7tw1no...
GoAwAy669
your pants up and stick with a timing chain. But then again, we're talking
Satrun, here. Ain't much performace (stock) with those lawnmower engines...
Moitz
> ...90k was the replacement interval for the belt in a Honda the original
> poster was referring to. He had 162k on the Saturn.
Only 90,000ish on the chain though. Previous owner smoke a chain at
72,000 so it had a new engine in it when we got it (compliments of her
uncle who builds top-fuel engines for a living).
Ah well. We needed a vehicle capable of towing a boat by spring anyhow,
so this actually works out well-ish. Timing wasn't quite what I had
hoped for, but hey...
-moitz-
Moitz
> Thus spake Jonnie Santos on 1/18/2004 5:38 PM:
>
>> ...90k was the replacement interval for the belt in a Honda the original
>> poster was referring to. He had 162k on the Saturn.
>
>
> Only 90,000ish on the chain though.
Hate replying to my own posts but a quick recount of miles leads me to
about a ~120,000 figure...uncle used a boneyard engine out of a totaled
car with ~20,000mi. So I guess I was pushing my luck.
-moitz-
BANDIT2941
>about a ~120,000 figure...uncle used a boneyard engine out of a totaled
>car with ~20,000mi. So I guess I was pushing my luck.
I've seen chains go much farther than that. When I rebuilt my motor at 157k my
chain wasn't really all that stretched out(I replaced it because it was cheap
and compared the old one to the new one).
ben@
the tips of some of its teeth. And both cam sprockets where egging-out. And
this was with Mobil 1. I think I'd rather change the belt every 60,000 to
80,000 miles than pulling out the engine.
"BANDIT2941" <bandi...@aol.comNHRA> wrote in message
news:20040119063246...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Jonnie Santos
thought by a guy who saw a lot of Saturn's in his business. And then other
posts that said low engine oil was terminal for the chain and guides - since
some S series have a pretty good appetite for oil, it would be pretty easy
to let the oil level to get too low between servicing...
Any thoughts about the replacement vehicle? Do you like GM and what about
the Colorado pickup?
"Moitz" <meuz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:R8KOb.97172$I06.430479@attbi_s01...
Moitz
> ...there used to be some posts about chains breaking more frequently than
> thought by a guy who saw a lot of Saturn's in his business. And then other
> posts that said low engine oil was terminal for the chain and guides - since
> some S series have a pretty good appetite for oil, it would be pretty easy
> to let the oil level to get too low between servicing...
Yeah, it did have an appetite for oil, but we were always good about
making sure it was never below the low mark (checked at every fill-up).
I tried to use Castrol GTX High-Mileage when possible, Valvoline when
not. 3000-5000 mile change intervals, always did filters. So not
spectacular maintenance but probably quite a bit better than most people.
> Any thoughts about the replacement vehicle? Do you like GM and what about
> the Colorado pickup?
Well, to be honest, I'm a Honda man when it comes to cars (her car was
the gift that kept on giving me alternator repairs to do--last one was
two weeks ago). I've always said I'd buy domestic trucks though and I'm
sticking to that. Unfortunately, with starting college again, payments
are pretty much out of the question. So we're going with a 1994
mechanic-owned Jeep Cherokee a friend of ours is selling. Word on the
street (and judging from my brother's 289,000 mile 1989 Cherokee) they
last quite a long time.
As far as the Colorado goes, I don't know...I haven't been a fan of GM's
style department lately (not that Honda's been much better with their
last round of redesigns *COUGH*Accord*COUGH*). Based purely on looks,
I'd go for a Dakota over the Colorado. Based on reliability reputation
though...Colorado all the way. I'm not so rich I can afford 3 or 4
transmissions over the life of a vehicle. :)
-moitz-
Jonnie Santos
believe it's concept only.
Congrats about college - I think it's one of the best things you can do for
yourself regardless of what you chose to do for a living. I'm still plan on
winning the lotto here in California... (grin)
"Moitz" <meuz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vS1Pb.103130$8H.169813@attbi_s03...
Steven M. Scharf
>I wasn't aware that back in '92 cars were made with interference engines
>using chains. I've got a '91 Accord which is also an interference engine,
>but it uses a belt. Seeing as my belt gets replaced every 90,000 miles,
>and apparently the chain is supposed to be as well, is there really any
>advantage to a chain?
No specified interval for a chain replacement, but alas that does not mean
the chain never needs to be replaced. 6th Planet, formerly Saturn Services,
was recommending something like 75K miles, based on the large number of
destroyed Saturn engines he saw due to timing chain failures.
The advantage of a belt is that it's much less expensive to replace, and it
isn't as dependent on other components (i.e. tensioners, guides, oil level),
besides being quieter), which is why Saturns have timing chain problems.
Read: http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1997/March/03.html
But obviously they are referring to vehicles with non-interference engines
when they
say that you don't replace a chain until it breaks.
BANDIT2941
>The advantage of a belt is that it's much less expensive to replace, and it
>isn't as dependent on other components (i.e. tensioners, guides, oil level),
>besides being quieter), which is why Saturns have timing chain problems.
>
Yeah, but in many cases it also drives the water pump. I'd much rather be
dependent on guides and stuff then the water pump. If the pump locks up there
goes the belt!
Oh, and if the belt doesn't have some type of tensioner, how does it stay
tight?
Steven M. Scharf
> Yeah, but in many cases it also drives the water pump. I'd much rather be
> dependent on guides and stuff then the water pump. If the pump locks up
there
> goes the belt!
This is true. They recommend water pump replacement when the belt is
replaced.
On Hondas the timing belt interval is now 105K miles, time for a new water
pump anyway, as long as you're doing preventative maintenance.
> Oh, and if the belt doesn't have some type of tensioner, how does it stay
> tight?
The tensioners are much simpler. Just a spring loader roller. Not like
Saturn, where oil pressure is used to ratchet up the tension, and where a
gummed up timing chain tensioner bore resulted in a loose chain.