timing chain disaster
Dennis Kelly
As a former proud owner of a 1994 SL1, I recently had my first problem
with my car. Unfortuneately, it was a doosey. I loved my first new car
and changed the oil regularly myself; even went to the trouble of using
costly synthetic oil, every three to four thousand miles. Well, since
my TIMING CHAIN BROKE, I have a complete new motor and a $3,100.oo debt.
Any ideas (class action suit?)???
send replies to aratcliffe @umdas.med.miami.edu
HEISNUTS
How many miles were in the car when the chain broke? You might be able to
get Saturn to pay for the repair. I would get someone higer up than the
dealer involved in this. That way you might get Saturn to pay some, if
not all, of the cost.
Larry Halpert
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From - Tue Jun 10 22:13:17 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:13:17 -0400
From: Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net>
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To: aratc...@umdas.med.miami.edu
Subject: Saturn Timing Chain DISASTER!
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After hearing other people I know complaining about a similar problem
with timing chains on 1994 Saturns, I was curious to know if anyone in
this club has heard of a high occurence of similar problems.
THE PROBLEM: First, a "coffee grinder" type noise was heard on our
29000
mile engine, followed by a breaking of the timing chain.
Two other friends we have had the same problem with similar mileage on
the cars.
Thanks for the help!!
Larry
P.S. Please let us know if there is any class action suits, etc.
happening. Thanks again.
--------------7A33DD54FF1--
Larry Halpert
My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
he suggested a new engine at a cost of $3000 to be the solution with NO
warranty coverage. I know of TWO other people with the same problem and
result with 1994s.
ANY SUGGESTIONS- Please Email me
Thanks!
Larry
Chris Mauritz
Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
:P~My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
:P~noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
Bummer.
:P~After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
:P~be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
:P~will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
:P~assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
:P~during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
So let me get this straight, you changed the oil twice in 19,000 miles?
Heh. I hope this will be a lesson to you. An automobile requires
maintenance. It is a precision machine. You need to change the oil
once in a while. While it's under warranty, you're foolish for not
following the manufacturers maintenance schedule (oil change every 3k).
Do you think it was worth that extra $100 you saved in oil changes?
Doesn't look like it.
Of course, what the dealer told you is not true either. I think a
tiny minority have timing chain problems. Timing chains rarely
break. Even under abusive conditions they don't break often.
:P~he suggested a new engine at a cost of $3000 to be the solution with NO
:P~warranty coverage. I know of TWO other people with the same problem and
:P~result with 1994s.
Your car is out of warranty. Even if it was under warranty, you
made no effort to follow the manufacturer's oil change intervals.
I don't think they owe you squat. But hey, I hope you put that
$100 you saved to good use.
Regards,
Chris
--
Christopher Mauritz | For info on internet access:
Director, Internet Operations | finger/mail in...@interactive.net OR
IBS Interactive, Inc. | http://www.interactive.net/
ri...@interactive.net |
sch...@hotmail.com
Chris Mauritz <ri...@interactive.net> wrote:
>>Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>:P~My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
>>:P~noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
>
>Bummer.
>
>>:P~After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
>:P~be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
>>:P~will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
>>:P~assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
>>:P~during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
>So let me get this straight, you changed the oil twice in 19,000 miles?
>Heh. I hope this will be a lesson to you. An automobile requires
>maintenance. It is a precision machine. You need to change the oil
>once in a while. While it's under warranty, you're foolish for not
>following the manufacturers maintenance schedule (oil change every 3k).
>Do you think it was worth that extra $100 you saved in oil changes?
>Doesn't look like it.
Hmm, Larry said the dealer assumed it was changed by them 10,000
miles ago, and that he had changed it once between that time. Assuming
it was at 1/2 the mileage between 19,000 and 29,000, that makes
it 5000 miles between changes, well within the 6K requirement for normal
use. He did follow the MANUFACTURER recommendation, though not
the dealer recommendation.
Where did you come up with two oil changes in 19,000 miles?
Why do you always twist the facts?
>Your car is out of warranty. Even if it was under warranty, you
>made no effort to follow the manufacturer's oil change intervals.
>I don't think they owe you squat. But hey, I hope you put that
>$100 you saved to good use.
Sorry, but the manufacturer recommendation for normal driving is
6K miles. The dealers recommend every 3K for the obvious reasons.
If he has proof of an oil change between 19K and 29K, he has at least
a chance of getting Saturn to do something for him. If he did it himself,
then he's S.O.L.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Chris Mauritz
In rec.autos.makers.saturn sch...@hotmail.com wrote:
:P~Chris Mauritz <ri...@interactive.net> wrote:
:P~>>Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
:P~>>:P~My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
:P~>>:P~noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
:P~>
:P~>Bummer.
:P~>
:P~>>:P~After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
:P~>:P~be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
:P~>>:P~will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
:P~>>:P~assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
:P~>>:P~during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
:P~>So let me get this straight, you changed the oil twice in 19,000 miles?
:P~>Heh. I hope this will be a lesson to you. An automobile requires
:P~>maintenance. It is a precision machine. You need to change the oil
:P~>once in a while. While it's under warranty, you're foolish for not
:P~>following the manufacturers maintenance schedule (oil change every 3k).
:P~>Do you think it was worth that extra $100 you saved in oil changes?
:P~>Doesn't look like it.
:P~Hmm, Larry said the dealer assumed it was changed by them 10,000
:P~miles ago, and that he had changed it once between that time. Assuming
:P~it was at 1/2 the mileage between 19,000 and 29,000, that makes
:P~it 5000 miles between changes, well within the 6K requirement for normal
:P~use. He did follow the MANUFACTURER recommendation, though not
:P~the dealer recommendation.
oops, my bad. I read it as "changed at 10k miles". And you don't
know what the person followed. They don't say exactly when the
oil was changed. It might have been 8k and 2k.
:P~Where did you come up with two oil changes in 19,000 miles?
:P~Why do you always twist the facts?
I didn't twist anything. See above.
:P~>Your car is out of warranty. Even if it was under warranty, you
:P~>made no effort to follow the manufacturer's oil change intervals.
:P~>I don't think they owe you squat. But hey, I hope you put that
:P~>$100 you saved to good use.
:P~Sorry, but the manufacturer recommendation for normal driving is
:P~6K miles. The dealers recommend every 3K for the obvious reasons.
It's 6k under specific circumstances and 3k at all other times.
I'd quote the manual, but I don't have it at work.
:P~If he has proof of an oil change between 19K and 29K, he has at least
:P~a chance of getting Saturn to do something for him. If he did it himself,
:P~then he's S.O.L.
I think he's SOL anyway since it's out of warranty and he exceeded
the oil change intervals.
chris
Steven M. Scharf
Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net> wrote in article
<339E10...@prodigy.net>...
> My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
>
>
> ANY SUGGESTIONS- Please Email me
Some states have 'implied warranties' some don't. Find this information
out for your state, since this is the type of thing it is designed to
cover, i.e.
goods that should clearly not break in this time frame, no matter what the
warranty given by the manufacturer is.
Even if your state does have implied warranties, it's not a trivial thing
to
get something fixed under it. It probably would require a lawyer to
negotiate
the route.
Geez, for three months you'd think they could cut you some slack.
Paul W. Henne
sch...@hotmail.com (sch...@hotmail.com) wrote:
|Chris Mauritz <ri...@interactive.net> wrote:
|>>Larry Halpert <Hal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
[SNIP]
|>>:P~After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
|>:P~be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
|>>:P~assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
|>>:P~during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
|
|>So let me get this straight, you changed the oil twice in 19,000 miles?
[SNIP]
|
|Hmm, Larry said the dealer assumed it was changed by them 10,000
|miles ago, and that he had changed it once between that time. Assuming
|it was at 1/2 the mileage between 19,000 and 29,000, that makes
|it 5000 miles between changes, well within the 6K requirement for normal
|use. He did follow the MANUFACTURER recommendation, though not
|the dealer recommendation.
It seems a correction may be in order here.
The guidelines (the word "requirement" is not used) for maintenance as
stated in my Owner's Manual (which reflects the manufacturer's opinion)
seem to indicate the oil change interval for what (IMO) most people would
consider NORMAL use is: every 3K. A quick call to my dealer verified that
the guidelines for the 1994 models are no different from mine. If Larry's
driving habits fit the 6K guidelines that is one thing, but since Mr.
Scharf said "normal use" I felt a correction was necessary. Although it
seems to me this is not the first time this correction has been made here.
|Where did you come up with two oil changes in 19,000 miles?
|Why do you always twist the facts?
In light of the above, I'd be careful asking this question if I were you.
Yes, Chris screwed up, but it seems you did too. I'd call it even.
Paul
--
------- Paul W. Henne <p...@clark.net-no.soliciting> -------
"Good judgement comes from experience; and experience, well,
that comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous
--> E-mail replies: Remove "-no.soliciting" from my address
------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Penn
Larry Halpert wrote:
>
> My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
> noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
>
> warranty coverage. I know of TWO other people with the same problem and
> result with 1994s.
Yup that's about right. 3000 mile oil changes or else. Or at least check
the level if you go slight past that. The techs here showed me a couple
of motors where the owner didn't change their oil. Not a pretty site
when the chain breaks and trys to saw on the motors insides. Ouch.
--
Eric Penn--C...@aol.com
92SCm BuGn/Tn AC SP+ CC AU+++ F+ PW PL AW SR NG ML [LS IS AF SH BR ES
SP
PW TB SB SS HD ]
Almus Kenter
Larry Halpert (Hal...@prodigy.net) wrote:
: My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
: noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
: After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
: be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
: will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
: assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
: during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
: he suggested a new engine at a cost of $3000 to be the solution with NO
: warranty coverage. I know of TWO other people with the same problem and
: result with 1994s.
: ANY SUGGESTIONS- Please Email me
: Thanks!
: Larry
Not changing your oil at "required" intervals is not
a smart thing to do... HOWEVER from reading this post and
the follow up posts I am puzzled that people think that
not changing the oil in 10,000 miles is a good enough reason
for an engine to eat its timing chain.....
In my opinion, if no oil change in 10,000 miles
causes a catastrophic engine failure, the engine
doesn't have enough margin in the design...
Especially when one of the service schedules allows
6k mile changes (albeit highway driving) and the
engine is in the prime of its life..
(note I assmume that the engine didn't run its sump dry but
just that the oil wasn't changed)
It is too bad that Saturn "the different kind of car company" (sic)
is not going to help you out regardless of the fact that
you are 3months out of warrantee and didn't (did you??) keep
records of the additional oil change.....
-almus
Chris Mauritz
Almus Kenter <ken...@flashman.harvard.edu> wrote:
:P~Larry Halpert (Hal...@prodigy.net) wrote:
:P~: My 1994 Saturn with 29000 miles started making a "coffee grinder" type
:P~: noise, which resulted very quickly with a broken timing chain.
:P~: After examining the car, the Saturn dealership told me that the oil must
:P~: be changed every three thousand miles religiously, and ANY AMOUNT MORE
:P~: will cause the timing chain to break. The dealer looked at the oil,
:P~: assumed it was changed by them 10000 miles ago, though it was changed
:P~: during that time once more. The car was THREE MONTHS out of warranty, so
:P~: he suggested a new engine at a cost of $3000 to be the solution with NO
:P~: warranty coverage. I know of TWO other people with the same problem and
:P~: result with 1994s.
:P~ Not changing your oil at "required" intervals is not
:P~a smart thing to do... HOWEVER from reading this post and
:P~the follow up posts I am puzzled that people think that
:P~not changing the oil in 10,000 miles is a good enough reason
:P~for an engine to eat its timing chain.....
:P~ In my opinion, if no oil change in 10,000 miles
:P~causes a catastrophic engine failure, the engine
:P~doesn't have enough margin in the design...
:P~Especially when one of the service schedules allows
:P~6k mile changes (albeit highway driving) and the
:P~engine is in the prime of its life..
:P~(note I assmume that the engine didn't run its sump dry but
:P~just that the oil wasn't changed)
I have a sneaking suspicion we're not getting the whole story.
I find it hard to believe that an engine with enough engine
oil would pop a timing chain at 30k miles, even if you never
changed the oil.
:P~It is too bad that Saturn "the different kind of car company" (sic)
:P~is not going to help you out regardless of the fact that
:P~you are 3months out of warrantee and didn't (did you??) keep
:P~records of the additional oil change.....
Out of warranty is out of warranty. They are under absolutely
no obligation to help at all. Try getting one of the big three
to replace an out of warranty engine for nothing. *chuckle*
Chris
GSprigg
Refer to Consumer Report test of approximately 6 months ago that found no
significant difference in engine wear in 60 New York taxis with 3000 or
7500 mile intervaks for oil changes.
I still do mine at least every 5K
JGunn74789
FYI, the Consumer Reports oil tests were found to be significanly flawed.
They completely failed to take into consideration the effects of engine
start-up. As is well documented, most engine wear occurs at startup.
Conversly, taxies idel for long periods and subsequently do not undergo
startup wear compared to your average consumer's car.
In sum, although, taxies can be considered to operate in extreme
conditions, the Consumer's Report's oil tests completely failed to address
the average consumer's real-world engine wear problems directly related to
engine start-ups.
Point of fact, most commercial motor oils begin to breakdown around 4,000
miles, Synthetics do not breakdown like regular motor. However, they
accumulate dirt and grit just like conventional motor oils.
Your environment, driving conditions and driving style determine whether
you should change your oil at 3,000, 5,000, or whatever. In Phoenix,
(which is clasified as EXTREME conditions), oil changes suggested at 3,000
miles, which is before any breakdown can occur. Even then, there are very
few over-100,000 mile original engines here in the valley.
JM9253
was any taxi a saturn? normal oil consumption 1 qt every 2000 miles, dont
forget to check