Buying Miata: don't need ABS?
Da'man
I have been shopping for a new Miata the past weekend. This dealer I visited
has several Miata in stock but none has Anti-Lock Brakes. When I request for
a 5-speed with ABS, the sales person told me that I don't need ABS for a
5-speed, and that ABS is for automatic. Is this a correct assumption on
his part? I kinda understand what & how ABS work. Does ABS benefit more
on auto than 5-speed?
Thank you
Minh : )
FSawin
have an ABS model on his lot. Maybe the only automatics he has seen had ABS
brakes. My 1990 Miata does not have ABS and I have done just fine since August
of 1989. I do have ABS on my other car, which although not a Miata has ABS.
It's a good option to have I'd try an find another dealer.
Frank Sawin
Jason 00
How'd you know his name is Frank? The person signed the post 'Minh'.
Hmph.
Anyway Frank, ABS is ABS. It is no more beneficial to an a/t driver than
it is to a driver of a standard. The dealer is feeding you a line of BS
to get the sale. I would shop elsewhere if I were you... don't let a
liar get your money. Find a dealer who will be honest with you about the
car and its various packages.
Jason (who has yet to drive with someone who actually knew when and how
their ABS system is activated. Most seem to think it is always assisting
them. = / )
--
'92 Classic Red base (mine forever!)
http://members.tripod.com/~JasonZero
"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans." - John
Lennon
"Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman
that she meets and then teams up with three
complete strangers to kill again." - Marin County Newspaper's TV listing
for 'The Wizard of Oz'
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
Mark Peugeot
Listening to a car dealer about auto advice is as useful as asking your
dog... sure they have an opinion but most auto sales people are
uniformed about the purchase you are going to make, many times they have
no clue. Ask them what they like about a particular car most, chances
are they will be stumped. Ask them about performance or enthusiast
related questions and watch them stare blankly.
Now while I prefer not having ABS in my miata, it is a nice feature in
locals with nastier weather or in cases where your driving would not be
compared to Mario Andretti. I suspect many performance enthusiasts
prefer Non-ABS cars. Ever wonder why the R-models did not have ABS but
did have LSD's???
ABS is a wonderful invention, and if it is a feature that you want I
suggest you hold out for it. I have had both ABS and non ABS cars, and I
prefer ABS in the car my wife drives. No not because she's a woman...
she's accident prone. I can tell you this I can stop nearly as quickly
in either vehicle (with a slight edge going to the ABS car).
ABS has NOTHING to do with having a manual or an automatic, it is
driver preference and also depends on your local conditions... in NY I
would want ABS, in Southern California I would not.
Mark
Tivolikw
Especially if your other vehicle has it -- you'll never have to try to remember
which one does in the instant of a serous emergency, you can use the same
braking techniques without any hesitation no matter which car you're driving.
However, it may be extremely difficult to find one with ABS that isn't some
kind of limited edition or has every single other option -- just the way the
dealerships like to order 'em, apparently ($$$$$.) I had a hellacious time
finding a '97 with the PEP package only, no leather, and ABS -- it alledgedly
was the only one in the entire SE region (color choice? fuhgeddit! -- OK, the
great abstract painter and color theorist Wassily Kandinsky said that "black is
the Prince of all colors," but he didn't have a Brilliant Black Miata to keep
bathed. . .) Anyhow, I could have had any vast number of '97 M Editions -- one
Atlanta dealer had seven! -- but they had leather of course, and I couldn't
afford one anyway (about $2300 more or so.) A shame too, 'cause they had the
better wheels/tires. Bottom line is, if you're looking for an options
combination that's really scarce, it may impact on your negotiating room -- but
not having ABS might involve an impact of an altogether different nature. Good
luck in your search, the M2s are awesome cars!
DAVID DOBSON
you will get a discount on your insurance too!
Da'man wrote in message <78nrjm$3tf$1...@news.umbc.edu>...
Robert
and not lock them up. It has only to do with how fast you are going,
not what kind of transmission you have. While it might be nice, it's
not mandatory. If you don't get ABS you could consider having braided
stainless brake lines installed to give you better modulation control,
and just learn how to do threshold braking from a track driving school
or club.
Robert
Leon van Dommelen
>> Frank, the decision is up to you
>
>How'd you know his name is Frank? The person signed the post 'Minh'.
That is maybe because his/her name *is* Minh. Frank Sawin was the
first *respondent*. ;)
>Hmph.
>
>Anyway Frank, ABS is ABS. It is no more beneficial to an a/t driver than
>it is to a driver of a standard. The dealer is feeding you a line of BS
>to get the sale.
You bet. :)
Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen, the man, and Bozo, the '96 white PEP Sebring Miata
REMOVE THE Z -> domm...@zmiata.net http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~dommelen
"What? You do not need a reason to drive, you need a Miata to drive."
Andrew Wong
wrote:
>The dealer is an idiot. ABS is there so you can slam on the brakes
>and not lock them up. It has only to do with how fast you are going,
>not what kind of transmission you have. While it might be nice, it's
>not mandatory. If you don't get ABS you could consider having braided
>stainless brake lines installed to give you better modulation control,
>and just learn how to do threshold braking from a track driving school
>or club.
>
I don't see how steel brake lines will make any difference when you do
a panic stop. Your average driver doesn't constantly think about
modulating brakes when a sleepy semi-trailer is on the wrong side of
the road. That's why we have ABS...
Try using no ABS at driving school doing brake/avoidance runs.
Then do an emergency stop from 100km/h or 60mph on a wet surface.
Look at the difference in stopping distances (up to 30 metres,
depending on whether you lock up any of the wheels).
If you can still say that your car *doesn't* need ABS because you're
an excellent driver, and got taught how to modulate brakes on a road
going car... I think you've (not directed at anyone in particular) got
rocks in your head.
Another area where ABS saves lives is when you have a narrow road with
an unsealed/gravel shoulder, and in avoiding a head on collision, the
driver always swerves to their side of the road and slam on the
brakes. With two wheels on gravel and two wheels on asphalt, you have
a recipe for at least a series of uncontrollable spins, or at worst a
rolling car.
I for one, thought that it was ok to buy my Mx-5 without ABS (coz it
didn't come as an option), but after driving school, I am still
annoyed that Mazda didn't ditch the airbags in Australia and give us
ABS. But that, as they say, is marketing.. People buy cars with
airbags not ABS. Duh.
NORA H E HAGUE
manual transmission models so if you want automatic and ABS, you're out of
luck. I guess Mazda assumes all manual transmission drivers need
assistance to prevent wheel-lock-up, and all automatic transmission
drivers are so experienced that they can pump the brakes well enough not
to need ABS.
It makes choosing packages very difficult, as cruise control has the same
problem. We've been trying to decide between the two for weeks.
Nora
Eagerly awaiting spring '99 (or sooner)
On 28 Jan 1999, DAVID DOBSON wrote:
> Hold out until you find an ABS equipped car. Invaluable safety option and
> you will get a discount on your insurance too!
> Da'man wrote in message <78nrjm$3tf$1...@news.umbc.edu>...
Laeglin
Laeglin
>Unless you're in Canada. ABS (the safety feature) is only available on
>manual transmission models so if you want automatic and ABS, you're out of
>luck
Our 97 automatic came with ABS (in Virginia).
Gavin Gregson
>On 28 Jan 1999 03:43:05 GMT, Robert <wolve...@worldnet.att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>The dealer is an idiot. ABS is there so you can slam on the brakes
>>and not lock them up. It has only to do with how fast you are going,
>>not what kind of transmission you have. While it might be nice, it's
>>not mandatory. If you don't get ABS you could consider having braided
>>stainless brake lines installed to give you better modulation control,
>>and just learn how to do threshold braking from a track driving school
>>or club.
>>
<snip>
>I for one, thought that it was ok to buy my Mx-5 without ABS (coz it
>didn't come as an option), but after driving school, I am still
>annoyed that Mazda didn't ditch the airbags in Australia and give us
>ABS. But that, as they say, is marketing.. People buy cars with
>airbags not ABS. Duh.
>
I can't believe that ABS is not an option in Australia - the dealer reckons
that there's "not enough demand" (for something that's not available here
anyhow). The logic seems to be along the lines of "we don't sell any ABS
units, so we won't import any". Some other dealer told me that they don't
import ABS models because "it's already got good brakes". Amazing...
Does anyone know if you can get & fit the factory ABS system as an aftermarket
part? It's probably just another Bosch unit with approriate hydraulic lines?
Gavin
Da'man
my decision by this weekend for a new Miata.
Regards,
Minh
Da'man (dl...@umbc.edu) wrote:
: Hello All-
: I have been shopping for a new Miata the past weekend. This dealer I visited
: has several Miata in stock but none has Anti-Lock Brakes. When I request for
: a 5-speed with ABS, the sales person told me that I don't need ABS for a
: 5-speed, and that ABS is for automatic. Is this a correct assumption on
: his part? I kinda understand what & how ABS work. Does ABS benefit more
: on auto than 5-speed?
: Thank you
: Minh : )
--
Daman : )
MB CLK GTR
and irrelevant with a 5 speed means that he either has an ABS AT car in stock
or can get one but will have a hard time getting a manual with ABS.
When the 99s first came out, I saw one or two AT with ABS but no manual with
ABS. The one I remember seeing for sure was an auto Leather Package car. I
also remember (though I'm not sure here) something about others posting in the
NG that they were not able to find manual, ABS equipped 99s. Can anyone
confirm this for sure?
My biggest pet peeve with the Miata has always been that they make you jump
through hoops (and also make you spend an extra wad of cash on an expensive
package and stereo) to get ABS, and even then, it was still very hard to find a
pre-99 with it.
Actually, this is just a sub-peeve ;-) of my biggest problem with the Miata,
which is that you can't have it your way, such as a base car with 14" alloys,
ABS, and Torsen, or a Sports with no spoilers and ABS, etc. Most of the
options for the Miata have to come in some package with a ton of stuff that I
don't even want for free, let alone pay for it.
For 99, instead of improving the ABS situation, they've actually made it worse.
I've never heard of a 99 with manual tranny and ABS actually existing in the
States.
Miguel
Clint Law
>
>I have been shopping for a new Miata the past weekend. This dealer I
visited
> has several Miata in stock but none has Anti-Lock Brakes. When I request
for
> a 5-speed with ABS, the sales person told me that I don't need ABS for a
> 5-speed, and that ABS is for automatic. Is this a correct assumption on
> his part? I kinda understand what & how ABS work. Does ABS benefit more
> on auto than 5-speed?
>
>Thank you
>
>Minh : )
#1 Rule of car shopping - If you want consistant reliable accurate
information, DO NOT under ANY Circumstances ask a dealer. ABS is a Valuable
feature on any car. The type of transmision has basically no effect on the
need or effectiveness of ABS. My guess would be the dealer didn't have a
5-speed with ABS and thus tried to tell you that you didn't need ABS on a
5-speed so he could get a sale.
BTW, some dealers are better than others, so sometimes a dealer may tell you
something that is right, but always check.
NORA H E HAGUE
transmission. If you're in Virginia, you're not only lucky, you're also
not in Canada.
Nora
Eagerly awaiting spring '99 (or sooner)
Stuart Portner
when it's working- the feedback to the brake peddle is so bad that you
automatically take your foot off the brake for a sec, which shuts off the
ABS, which means the vehicle isn't stopping well, which means you slam your
foot back down, which means...
...so you wind up pumping the brakes just like you didn't have ABS <G>.
Seriously, when the FHP first got ABS, many troopers had problems
"adapting" to it for exactly the situation I described above. You really
gotta train yourself to stay "on " the peddle until the vehicle comes to a
halt.
--
-=Stu=-
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Jason 00 <jas...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<12072-36...@newsd-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
<snip>.
Tivolikw
Ha ha, artist's humor -- just the way I'm used to thinking. . .my life's work
is such an integral part of me, and my belief that art is what universally
makes us human, it just comes out as a matter of course. . .
I always think of Kandinsky and his quote on this color, when my black on black
Miata gets the least bit dirty. When I saw the first black one, after it
replaced silver in the model lineup, I really admired how great it looked in
black with all the different textures, from brilliant gloss to deep matte, in
the bodywork, top, interior etc. Very subtle and elegant, so I wasn't too
unhappy when this was the color I ended up with. But I quickly found out how
crummy it looks unless it's kept constantly washed and ultra-spotless. . .
End of strictly Miata related material, no need to read on any furthur, unless.
. .
In case you may be curious -- Wassily Kandinsky (1866-1944) born in Russia,
generally regarded as the person to have first created and achieved true
Abstract painting. His book "Concerning The Spiritual In Art" is one of the
most important books on modern color theory, and read by virtually every artist
today. In it he describes the spiritual value of color and how it affects the
human soul on primal, deep-seated instinctive, and intellectual levels, (which
as we all know, gets to the core of how different in feel a Miata is in
Sunburst Yellow or Mariner Blue or. . .) he thought of colors as being like the
elements of sound are in music, and felt that specific colors were comparable
to certain musical sounds. In short -- this dude could throw down some paint in
an incredibly awesome manner -- His stuff rocks!
If your curiosity has been revved up and you're feeling incredibly reckless
and daring, check out these links. Hey, go ahead, blow a few minutes, you might
see something you like, but you'll never know unless you see it, and decide,
for yourself:
www.escapeartist.com/europe/kandinsky2.htm
www.lsi.usp.br/~artigas/kandinsky
John Laeglin
thought completely the opposite)... Sorry about that.
I guess my eyes are failing me at last. Good thing I don't use 'em for
driving.