Does 2003 Shinsen include "sport" supspension?
Grant Edwards
conflicting info on whether the Shinsen has the standard
supsension (which will fit KYB AGX shocks) or the "sport"
supsension, (which requires different shocks than the standard).
For example, both miatamania.com and http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5361/03.html
say that that the Shinsen comes with a 6-speed transmission and
sport suspension. Mine came with a 5-speed, so does that mean
it's _not_ the sport supsension?
Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
suspension?
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! My LESLIE GORE record
at is BROKEN ...
visi.com
Grant Edwards
> Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
> suspension?
Somebody suggested looking for a sticker on the passenger side
door sill. 2003s don't seem to have that sticker, so I'm still
in the dark.
Is it true that the sport suspension was only available with
the 6-speed?
--
Grant
Grant Edwards
> On 2009-10-12, Grant Edwards <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
>> suspension?
>
> Somebody suggested looking for a sticker on the passenger side
> door sill. 2003s don't seem to have that sticker, so I'm still
> in the dark.
The OEM shocks are black. The sport suspension came with
yellow Bilstein shocks, so this must be the standard
suspension. I think.
--
Grant
Me
The link you gave also said that the suspension package for the LS only
came with 6 speed, so either something's awry with the description, or
the car you've got isn't a Shinsen, but perhaps has some extras.
Unlikely anyone would change a 6 for 5 speed, but people do strange
things at times.
There /should/ be a sticker on the chassis inside the door panel. If
it's not there, it was probably taken off for a reason.
Chris D'Agnolo
;-) Actually, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter to you, which it had
because you're going to use the same KYB's to replace either one, right? I
think it only matters if you're doing an OEM replacement, the adjustable
KYB's will work on either, I I believe.
What are the other differences of the 'sport' suspension? I'm guessing
possibly beefier springs (not sure about that) and possibly beefier sway
bars (not sure about that either). I think it's quite possible that upgraded
shocks are the only different components. Hopefully someone will correct me
swiftly (and tactfully ;-) if I am wrong.
Chris
99BBB
"Grant Edwards" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb0tbf$8th$1...@reader1.panix.com...
Grant Edwards
> Do you ever get that feeling that you're just talking to
> yourself, Grant?
Sometimes. What worries me is that I sometimes disagree.
> Actually, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter to you, which it had
> because you're going to use the same KYB's to replace either one, right? I
> think it only matters if you're doing an OEM replacement, the adjustable
> KYB's will work on either, I I believe.
According to the web sites of several people who sell the KYBs
(e.g. summit racing), they won't fit a sport suspension.
> What are the other differences of the 'sport' suspension? I'm guessing
> possibly beefier springs (not sure about that) and possibly beefier sway
> bars (not sure about that either).
Shorter, stiffer springs and heftier sway bars. Some of what
I've read implies that the springs are mounted slightly
differently as well. Presumably the spring difference is why
KYBs won't fit a sport suspension (though presumably if one
also changed the springs they would work).
> I think it's quite possible that upgraded shocks are the only
> different components. Hopefully someone will correct me
> swiftly (and tactfully ;-) if I am wrong.
--
Grant
Grant Edwards
>>>> Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
>>>> suspension?
>>>
>>> Somebody suggested looking for a sticker on the passenger side
>>> door sill. 2003s don't seem to have that sticker, so I'm
>>> still in the dark.
>>
>> The OEM shocks are black. The sport suspension came with
>> yellow Bilstein shocks, so this must be the standard
>> suspension. I think.
>
> That sounds correct - Bilsteins are usually yellow. The link
> you gave also said that the suspension package for the LS only
> came with 6 speed, so either something's awry with the
> description, or the car you've got isn't a Shinsen, but
> perhaps has some extras.
It had Shinsen badges on the fenders, Shinsen floormats,
Shinsen hats, the Shinsen interior uphostery and trim, Shinsen
exterior paint color, and Shinsen roof. The window sticker
said Shinsen. I'm pretty sure it's a Shinsen model.
I believe that the descriptions I've found on the web for
Shinsens are wrong (at least they don't match up with any of
the Shinsens I looked at when I bought mine in early 2004). I
sent corrections to one of the authors of such a feature list
but was ignored.
> Unlikely anyone would change a 6 for 5 speed, but people do
> strange things at times.
I looked at three Shinsens. They all had 5-speed transmissions.
> There /should/ be a sticker on the chassis inside the door
> panel. If it's not there, it was probably taken off for a
> reason.
According to my research, Mazda stopped putting those stickers
in Miatas sometime in 2002. Nobody with a 2003 reports finding
such a sticker.
--
Grant
Christopher Muto
afaik, the shinsen (japensese for something like new or fresh) was somewhere
between the base model and the ls. it was cheaper than a ls but had many of
the ls upgrades. marketed for younger price conscious consumer with styling
extras including the gray paint, blue top, blue seats and blue interior
accents. though i could not find anything conclusive about it, it would
make sense that it is a 5 speed (not 6) and standard (not sport) suspension.
a great looking car.
Christopher Muto
news:c4ednRJAS6mdNknX...@speakeasy.net...
this article describes it well...
http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/reviews/index.cfm/action/DisplayPro/aid/138704/Make_vch/Mazda/Model_vch/MX-5%20Miata/Year_si/2003
appears that the 6 speed is on the special edition (SE) and not the shinsen
(though the shinsen was a limited prodction run it is not what mazda labled
as the 'special edition') and that is probably where the confusion comes
from.
Grant Edwards
> afaik, the shinsen (japensese for something like new or fresh)
> was somewhere between the base model and the ls. it was
> cheaper than a ls but had many of the ls upgrades. marketed
> for younger price conscious consumer with styling extras
> including the gray paint, blue top, blue seats and blue
> interior accents. though i could not find anything conclusive
> about it, it would make sense that it is a 5 speed (not 6) and
> standard (not sport) suspension. a great looking car.
I really liked that fact that it had cloth upholstery. Leather
is just too hot. Unfortunately the cloth seats havn't worn
well, and new seat covers look to be on the horizon after the
shocks and tires.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I feel ... JUGULAR ...
at
visi.com
Me
> On 2009-10-13, Me <us...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
>>>>> suspension?
>>>> Somebody suggested looking for a sticker on the passenger side
>>>> door sill. 2003s don't seem to have that sticker, so I'm
>>>> still in the dark.
>>> The OEM shocks are black. The sport suspension came with
>>> yellow Bilstein shocks, so this must be the standard
>>> suspension. I think.
>> That sounds correct - Bilsteins are usually yellow. The link
>> you gave also said that the suspension package for the LS only
>> came with 6 speed, so either something's awry with the
>> description, or the car you've got isn't a Shinsen, but
>> perhaps has some extras.
>
> It had Shinsen badges on the fenders, Shinsen floormats,
> Shinsen hats, the Shinsen interior uphostery and trim, Shinsen
> exterior paint color, and Shinsen roof. The window sticker
> said Shinsen. I'm pretty sure it's a Shinsen model.
>
> I believe that the descriptions I've found on the web for
> Shinsens are wrong (at least they don't match up with any of
> the Shinsens I looked at when I bought mine in early 2004). I
> sent corrections to one of the authors of such a feature list
> but was ignored.
>
information on the main page is a bit ambiguous as to Ls and shinsen.
>
>> Unlikely anyone would change a 6 for 5 speed, but people do
>> strange things at times.
>
> I looked at three Shinsens. They all had 5-speed transmissions.
>
>> There /should/ be a sticker on the chassis inside the door
>> panel. If it's not there, it was probably taken off for a
>> reason.
>
> According to my research, Mazda stopped putting those stickers
> in Miatas sometime in 2002. Nobody with a 2003 reports finding
> such a sticker.
>
I didn't realise that they stopped in 02, but yes.
Mazda have a database is at mazda.co.jp, but of course it's password
protected and on a secure server. The local parts counter guy checked
mine, printed it out, and gave me a copy - suggested to keep in the car
as easy reference if I need parts. That detailed options for trans,
diff, suspension as well as SE/LE trim packages, and also listed deleted
options - ie "W/O 10th-Anniv" for my '98 car.
They look up using VIN, so I guess they could do this if anyone was
looking at a used car, and wanted confirmation of factory options
fitted. Get the VIN, and head down to Mazda. A new NC was parked right
next to the parts counter - damn it - I want reasons not to like them,
and couldn't find any there...
ear...@spymac.com
I got my '03 Shinsen a couple years ago, and like you have found there
is a lot of conflicting info on the internet regarding its specs. But
mine is definitely a 5-speed, unless you count reverse. My shocks are
not yellow, either, nor do I have any sort of "sport" identifier on
the door jam sticker, and I've assumed the car doesn't have the sport
suspension. I think the main thing about the Shinsen is its
distinctive look, but there is not much performance-related difference
over the base model. At least one website does say it has a limited
slip iirc, I'm still sort of wondering about this.
With ~43K miles on the clock I've been looking at my shock options,
too – trying to strike a nice balance between streetability, autocross
(which I got into this year), and at some point maybe a few track
days. Thus far I am leaning toward the Konis, with Bilstein maybe the
main other contender, if I can figure out which Bilstein would be
appropriate. I have a vague feeling the Konis may be the most
versatile for covering my needs right now.
Eric
Me
> I got my '03 Shinsen a couple years ago, and like you have found there
> is a lot of conflicting info on the internet regarding its specs. But
> mine is definitely a 5-speed, unless you count reverse. My shocks are
> not yellow, either, nor do I have any sort of "sport" identifier on
> the door jam sticker, and I've assumed the car doesn't have the sport
> suspension. I think the main thing about the Shinsen is its
> distinctive look, but there is not much performance-related difference
> over the base model. At least one website does say it has a limited
> slip iirc, I'm still sort of wondering about this.
>
Mazda database that your Mazda dealer can access.
If you've got a door jamb sticker, mine (NB8a) shows LSD identified as
Drive : Type 2. But not sure if that applies to US models, or later NBs.
>
>
> With ~43K miles on the clock I've been looking at my shock options,
Chris D'Agnolo
understanding is that (at least in the US) there were no '98's. Enlighten
me.
Chris
99BBB
"Me" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb33fs$p3u$1...@news.albasani.net...
Chris D'Agnolo
word for the KYB AGX adjustables. IIRC the Koni's are not easy to adjust and
the KYB's definitely are. It's nice to be able to go softer on the road and
firm it up when it's time to get serious. I ended up putting the MSM springs
and shocks on my 99 and while I think it's the perfect 'all around' set up,
my wife isn't very happy riding in the car and that effects my time in the
car and that's a BAD THING!
Good luck and update us when / if you change up.
Chris
99BBB
<ear...@spymac.com> wrote in message
news:e70ef85d-e60a-424b...@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
I got my '03 Shinsen a couple years ago, and like you have found there
is a lot of conflicting info on the internet regarding its specs. But
mine is definitely a 5-speed, unless you count reverse. My shocks are
not yellow, either, nor do I have any sort of "sport" identifier on
the door jam sticker, and I've assumed the car doesn't have the sport
suspension. I think the main thing about the Shinsen is its
distinctive look, but there is not much performance-related difference
over the base model. At least one website does say it has a limited
slip iirc, I'm still sort of wondering about this.
With ~43K miles on the clock I've been looking at my shock options,
too � trying to strike a nice balance between streetability, autocross
Grant Edwards
> ear...@spymac.com wrote:
>> I got my '03 Shinsen a couple years ago, and like you have
>> found there is a lot of conflicting info on the internet
>> regarding its specs. But mine is definitely a 5-speed, unless
>> you count reverse. My shocks are not yellow, either, nor do I
>> have any sort of "sport" identifier on the door jam sticker,
>> and I've assumed the car doesn't have the sport suspension. I
>> think the main thing about the Shinsen is its distinctive
>> look, but there is not much performance-related difference
>> over the base model. At least one website does say it has a
>> limited slip iirc, I'm still sort of wondering about this.
I've found similar mentions of an LSD on various sites, but I
don't think mine has one based on observations of behavior on
ice/snow: park with one wheel on ice and the other on cement,
and it will quite happily spin the wheel that's on ice.
I don't know where people get all of the misinformation they
post, but there seems to be a lot of it -- and they won't even
deign to correct it when provided with the facts.
> As per my other post, that /should/ show up on a VIN # search
> of the Mazda database that your Mazda dealer can access.
My Mazda dealer's service department has never proven to be
competent in the past. In my 6 or 7 dealings with them they've
botched something every time -- on one occasion they lied about
it in an attempt to avoid correcting things. If they did
manage to access the database, I wouldn't trust them to come up
with the right answer.
> If you've got a door jamb sticker, mine (NB8a) shows LSD
> identified as Drive: Type 2. But not sure if that applies to
> US models, or later NBs.
As we've already established, Mazda stopped putting such
stickers in Miatas sometime in 2002. 2003 models do not have
such stickers.
>> With ~43K miles on the clock I've been looking at my shock
>> options, too? trying to strike a nice balance between
>> streetability, autocross (which I got into this year), and at
>> some point maybe a few track days. Thus far I am leaning
>> toward the Konis, with Bilstein maybe the main other
>> contender, if I can figure out which Bilstein would be
>> appropriate. I have a vague feeling the Konis may be the most
>> versatile for covering my needs right now.
I put KYB AGX adjustable shocks in my NA a few years back and
liked them. I'm leaning towards another set of AGX shocks for
the Shinsen. They would allow one to have different damping
for street, autocross, and track. The AGX's for NAs had 8
settings -- the ones for NBs have 4.
This time I think I'll pay somebody else to do the work.
--
Grant
Carbon
> Eric, if your suspension is a 'non-sport' version, I want to put in a
> good word for the KYB AGX adjustables. IIRC the Koni's are not easy to
> adjust and the KYB's definitely are. It's nice to be able to go softer
> on the road and firm it up when it's time to get serious. I ended up
> putting the MSM springs and shocks on my 99 and while I think it's the
> perfect 'all around' set up, my wife isn't very happy riding in the
> car and that effects my time in the car and that's a BAD THING!
That's interesting. I have an MSM so presumably MSM springs and shocks
as well. To me the handling is too soft, with too much body roll.
Finances preclude any changes for the time being, but at some point I
would like to firm things up a notch or two without destroying the ride.
And I'm really not sure what I should upgrade, cost/benefit wise.
jasper
> I'm shopping for shocks for my '03 Shinsen, and I'm finding
> conflicting info on whether the Shinsen has the standard
> supsension (which will fit KYB AGX shocks) or the "sport"
> supsension, (which requires different shocks than the standard).
>
> say that that the Shinsen comes with a 6-speed transmission and
> sport suspension. Mine came with a 5-speed, so does that mean
> it's _not_ the sport supsension?
>
> Is there an easy way to visually identify sport vs. standard
> suspension?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards grante Yow! My LESLIE GORE record
> at is BROKEN ...
> visi.com
OK Grant, here we go !!! I have 2003 shop manual and on page :
02-14-3 under "Rear Supention" , a section Rear Shock Absorber and
Coil SpringInstallation Note
1. Install the rear shock absorber and coil spring so that the part
number label ( by Showa) or caution label ( by Bilstein) on the shock
absorber faces outside of the vehicle.
I would guess that you could find that info on the shock to tell you
what you have.
Now you can also measure the front brake disk. The Sport ( 16 in.
wheel ) disk will measure 10.6 inches in dia. ** Standard brakes are
10.00 inches ** ALSO, the brake pads do NOT have little springs to
hold the pads apart on the Sport Brakes, Std pads HAVE springs.
Now go under the rear of the car. the "U" shape brace under the
suspension. The 16inch wheel vehicle, have two cross braces more than
the std suspension cars. One is midway at the first joint and the
other one is at the fwd end of the brace.
I could go on and on, but this should give you enough info to tell.
Oh, all of the 2003 LS cars have the Sport Suspension systems.
Bruce
Me
> Mr. Me, I'm confused as to why you would call your car a '98. My
> understanding is that (at least in the US) there were no '98's.
> Enlighten me.
>
Japanese domestic market, and imported used to NZ, with about 40,000
miles on the clock. I don't know the date first registered in Japan,
but probably '98 rather than '99.
Model designation is VS SE. VS (V-spec) seems to refer to light tan
interior, leather seats, elect windows/mirrors, Nardi wooden steering
wheel, shifter, and parking brake handle, and tan hood. I think the Na
V-spec models were mainly (all?) BRG, but NB8a seem to come in various
colours. The SE bit specifies special options. My car has 6 speed and
LSD, but otherwise a standard nb8b. (they made nb6a & nb6b 1600s for
Japan and Europe).
It's actually just called a Mazda Roadster, no MX5 or Miata badges.
There are other differences. Japanese Nb8a don't have EGR fitted. The
intake manifold is cast and partly machined for it, but it's not fitted.
(I kind of hope that keeps some heat off my coil packs) The exhaust
manifold in Japan and some markets other than North America is a long
4:2:1 header, the last Y joint about a foot from the cat under the car.
There's also a different intake cam used, apparently the same cam as the
later MSM intake cam. Tacho red line, and limiter are 7500rpm rather
than 7000/7200. There's also no OBDII, and a different ECU is used.
Rob
> Outside the US there were '98 NBs. Mine was made in August 98 for
> Japanese domestic market, and imported used to NZ, with about 40,000
> miles on the clock. I don't know the date first registered in Japan,
> but probably '98 rather than '99.
Although it won't tell you the date of first Japanese registration this
site will tell you the date of manufacture - just enter the chassis
number
<http://www.japan-partner.com/check-manufacture-year.php>
AFAIK this site ONLY details JDM vehicles, it won't hold info for, say,
an MX5 that was built for the UK or NZ market.
As you know the month of manufacture I suspect that you may already know
of this site, details posted for anyone who doesn't.
--
Rob - Shropshire
So many cats,
So few recipes...
Chris D'Agnolo
it might be in a far off land ;-)
Chris
99BBB
"Me" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb6tbd$cbf$1...@news.albasani.net...
Chris D'Agnolo
compromise, IIRC, the MSM is ~300lbs heavier than my 99 base model car
which, will make a significant difference.
If you want to dial out some body roll, I think you can do it with upsized
sway bars. There should be tons of info in the forums at miata.net on that.
There have been many attempts (with varying degrees of success) to turn the
MSM into a great autocross car. Apparently, depending on your local venue,
the 6 speed can be a bit of a problem (having to go into and out of, 3rd
gear occasionally).
Of course, FM or Goodman Racing will take you as serious as you dare to go!
You really do start loosing some of the 'streetability' and it's hard to go
back ;-)
Chris
99BBB
"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4ad68137$0$5664$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Carbon
> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4ad68137$0$5664$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:38:14 -0500, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, if your suspension is a 'non-sport' version, I want to put in
>>> a good word for the KYB AGX adjustables. IIRC the Koni's are not
>>> easy to adjust and the KYB's definitely are. It's nice to be able to
>>> go softer on the road and firm it up when it's time to get serious.
>>> I ended up putting the MSM springs and shocks on my 99 and while I
>>> think it's the perfect 'all around' set up, my wife isn't very happy
>>> riding in the car and that effects my time in the car and that's a
>>> BAD THING!
>>
>> That's interesting. I have an MSM so presumably MSM springs and
>> shocks as well. To me the handling is too soft, with too much body
>> roll. Finances preclude any changes for the time being, but at some
>> point I would like to firm things up a notch or two without
>> destroying the ride. And I'm really not sure what I should upgrade,
>> cost/benefit wise.
>
> handling compromise, IIRC, the MSM is ~300lbs heavier than my 99 base
> model car which, will make a significant difference.
>
> If you want to dial out some body roll, I think you can do it with
> upsized sway bars. There should be tons of info in the forums at
> miata.net on that. There have been many attempts (with varying degrees
> of success) to turn the MSM into a great autocross car. Apparently,
> depending on your local venue, the 6 speed can be a bit of a problem
> (having to go into and out of, 3rd gear occasionally).
>
> Of course, FM or Goodman Racing will take you as serious as you dare
> to go!
I've spent many hours contemplating the FM website. There are a large
number of goodies for the MSM, and there's also a disturbingly
fascinating section on V8 transplants. If finances had allowed I would
have done the intake kit, downpipe, exhaust and intercooler at the very
least. And of course new sway bars too.
Chris D'Agnolo
has more, and even they are unhappy with what they have and want more!
What's the old saying, 'if you're not fast with 90 hp, you won't be fast
with 900 hp' Something like that. I seriously think the stk or near stock
Miata is one of the most ideal cars for public roads. You can run the snot
out of it every day and have a blast while a guy in his hotrod Vette can't
run to redline in second gear for fear of his license. Work on the handling
and your drivers skills, I think you'll be happier, isn't that what it's all
about?
Chris
99BBB
"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4ad7bcf0$0$5675$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Me
> The horsepower game is a study in futility. You can't win, somebody
> always has more, and even they are unhappy with what they have and want
> more! What's the old saying, 'if you're not fast with 90 hp, you won't
> be fast with 900 hp' Something like that. I seriously think the stk or
> near stock Miata is one of the most ideal cars for public roads. You can
> run the snot out of it every day and have a blast while a guy in his
> hotrod Vette can't run to redline in second gear for fear of his
> license. Work on the handling and your drivers skills, I think you'll be
> happier, isn't that what it's all about?
>
> Chris
> 99BBB
>
S2000 is nice, but you'll die or lose your license proving that it's
faster than a Miata (they most certainly are). Boxsters are kind of
nice, it's just the potential cost of future engine rebuilds that I
don't like. Z3 / Z4 I'll pass on - if you can afford very high european
car maintenance costs, then IMO only Porsche (911/Cayman/Boxster)
deserve attention - for purist design for drivers. Someone drove past
my house in some brand new 4 door stretched 911 shaped thing the other
day - more proof that Porsche aren't infallible - if the Cayenne truck
(express school bus) hadn't proved it already.
The roads here in NZ have character. Lots of very interesting twisty
mountain roads. The surface is variable - often "chip seal" rather than
rolled emulsion smooth surfaces, and prone to having big lumps in
corners. Hard suspension might be great on smooth roads or the track,
but a good balance of stock / near stock suspension and keeping unsprung
weight as low as possible is best. A stock Mx5 seems as if it's made
for the roads here.