TJ vs JK
txj...@gmail.com
Unlimited.... front and rear lockers you can activate with the
flick of a switch? dana 44s front and rear? 32" tires standard, no
lift kit needed?? 4.10 gear ratio, 4:1 compression, and a six speed
manual? And all with a factory warranty!!! Sounds like the most
capable stock jeep EVER. You might even be able to stick 33s or 34s
on it straight out of the showroom! Not to mention, it can tow 3500
pounds.... I might finally be able to get rid of the separate tow
vehicle I had to keep for my jet skis and ATVs because my TJ couldn't
tow over 2000 lbs!
As soon as I saw the photos and read the first specs, my heart has
been racing with desire. Pamela Anderson move over, all my lust is
for the latest and greatest off the Chrysler assembly line!
But wait. There seems to be a derisive undercurrent of scorn and
disappointment here on the jeep group. People are saying things like
"the TJ is the last wrangler I'll ever buy."
Why?????? What am I missing? What's wrong with the JK... it sounds
like an offroader's dream!
I remember when the TJ came out, people scoffed and said it would
never be as good as the YJ. And when the YJ came out, people swore
they'd never give up the CJ. I'm too young to remember when the CJ
first hit the market, but I'm willing to bet people were dissing it
when compared to the Willys.
So... is all this anti-JK sentiment just "sour grapes" by people who
are slow to change (and perhaps a bit unhappy/jealous that they bought
a TJ and now something has eclipsed it)? Or is there some real,
material failing in the JK that I need to be aware of before trekking
to a dealership to lay down my cash for one?
97tjMike
(...easy to fix w/ aftermarket parts I guess)
The only other thing I have against the new one is that it's too big.
The TJ and its predecessors were small trucks, and this one is
freaking too huge for my taste (even the two door). But it's all good,
I wouldn't mind the JK but the bumpers would be the first thing I'd
upgrade.
SnoMan
wrote:
>everyone knows that real jeeps have metal bumpers
Kinda like real trucks are supposed to too. The new Chevy 07 trucks
have chrome plated plastic wings that at a glance look like massive
metal bumbers in front of front wheels. I guess I am old fashioned as
I beleive 4x4's should have real metal bumbers be it a Jeep, SUV or a
truck.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
DougW
Back in 93 when I got the ZJ, I was also looking at some trucks.
Went and put a foot up on a ford front bumper and the darn thing
bent down. Upon closer examination it was just body thin metal
over some foam and steel backing.
My old Chevy C-10 you could pull stumps with the bumper or jack
the vehicle out of the mud.
Of course the ZJ has the same problem, but at least the bumpers
_are_ plastic and not something made to look stronger than it is.
--
DougW
Paul Nelson
Paul Nelson
in article 1184893671....@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, 97tjMike at
Michae...@gmail.com wrote on 7/19/07 8:07 PM:
97tjMike
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:07:51 -0700, 97tjMike <MichaelJun...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >everyone knows that real jeeps have metal bumpers
>
> Kinda like real trucks are supposed to too. The new Chevy 07 trucks
> have chrome plated plastic wings that at a glance look like massive
> metal bumbers in front of front wheels. I guess I am old fashioned as
> I beleive 4x4's should have real metal bumbers be it a Jeep, SUV or a
> truck.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
yea but at least the bumper piece in the middle is actually metal.
that's what counts
Jeff Strickland
Bumpers?
I have something across the front, and it's bent, but is it really a bumper?
Me thinks not.
"Paul Nelson" <paulne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:C2C58798.684BB%paulne...@gmail.com...
Earle Horton
but it's bent too. Doesn't look like a factory bend...
Saludos cordiales,
Earle
"Jeff Strickland" <cr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:fGVni.6710$2o5.301@trnddc03...
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
SnoMan
wrote:
>yea but at least the bumper piece in the middle is actually metal.
>that's what counts
The middle helps but the sides are important too because you do not
want some brush to rip them off.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
SnoMan
<el_anglo...@usa.com> wrote:
>Heh, I have something across the front of my YJ, and it is definitely metal,
>but it's bent too.
But it is still there and not broken off and missing.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Mike Romain
Funny enough it only seems to have fights with trees and river banks
when it is straight....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
97tjMike
Jeff Strickland
straighten it out and it just look for new stuff to slam into.
"Mike Romain" <rom...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:46a0c0cf$0$25158$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Jeff Strickland
"97tjMike" <Michae...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184957743.9...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> yup, you guys wouldn't have bumpers anymore if they were plastic!
>
They hadn't even invented plastic when they built my Jeep ...
SnoMan
<cr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Aint that the truth! Bend it once and it never hits anything again,
>straighten it out and it just look for new stuff to slam into.
Also some metal bumber work hardner a bit and actual get a bit
stronger after they have been bent and straightened. Repeated bending
AND straightening can lead to cracking though.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Jeff Strickland
"SnoMan" <ad...@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:kno2a3paqbi3n0pt6...@4ax.com...
Say what!?
Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? That's
patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and leave it be and
it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is the point yo
missed.)
T. Greening
You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to
bend but eventually cracks and breaks.
SnoMan
wrote:
>You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
>through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>
>The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to
>bend but eventually cracks and breaks.
Some alloys can work harden so much (especailly some aluminum ones)
that when you bend it as soon as the bending motion stops it becomes
so "hard" that any further attempt to bend it more will break it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Jeff Strickland
"T. Greening" <tgr...@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> Say what!?
>>
>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and leave
>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>> the point yo missed.)
>>
>>
>
>
> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals are
> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>
> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness increases
> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
> eventually cracks and breaks.
Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is
straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which
is the topic.
DougW
Ever do any body work? There is a reason why you have to use a torch to
anneal metal is so you can continue to work without making it so brittle
it cracks. As for bends happening in the same place, that's because
of structure not the metal hardness. Body metal today is so darn thin
the only structural rigidity they have is due to forming.
What happens is the structure has become compromised and until the
structure is fixed, the fender will tend to fail along the same line.
It's like bending a straw. Once there is a bend in the straw it will
fail at that point again.
Metal only has two zones, elastic and plastic. In the elastic zone
(like car springs) the metal will return to its previous state. In
the plastic zone it will retain that shape. Work hardening and annealing
changes where these zones lay. A good example is making a gas tank for
a bike. You start with a sheet of aluminum but that can't be formed
till it's made softer (annealed). After so much work it needs to be
annealed again or the metal will crack as it's being formed.
If you can find it, Bill Toboldt, Autobody Repair and Repainting is a
very good book for starting out. It was pressed back in 1979
ISBN 0-87006-423-1
--
DougW
Earle Horton
>
> "T. Greening" <tgr...@yomama.com> wrote in message
> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> >>
> >> Say what!?
> >>
> >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
> >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
> >> leave
> >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
> >> the point yo missed.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
> > are
> > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
> > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
> >
> > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
> > increases
> > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
> > eventually cracks and breaks.
>
>
> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
point. Never mind.
Saludos cordiales,
Earle
>
> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
is
> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
which
> is the topic.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mike Romain
Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...
>
>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
> is
>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
> which
>> is the topic.
But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
became hard and brittle.
c
In metallurgical terms, hardness and strength are related. The hardest
metals aren't the toughest or most durable ones though. I think the
terminology might be causing this discussion. Most metals that are
hardened in a furnace, such as tool steels, are very brittle after
hardening. They are actually tempered, or drawn down to a lower hardness
after heat treating to where the ductility increases. There is a point
where each alloy has its maximum durability for its intended
application. A work hardened piece of metal has gone beyond the maximum
recommended hardness and lost its ductility. Depending on the steel of
the bumper, it could possibly be heated to red hot with a torch and
allowed to slow cool to return the ductility to a higher level. Crude,
but it does work for most common steels.
Chris
Will Honea
> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>
Technically, Mike, that should be fatigued. Bending a wire to break it
creates several interesting effects in metal, especially steel, in the
process - that is, if you are trying to pass a metallurgy course and that
is one of the experiments. Even with my memory these days, I can still
remember that experience!
--
Will Honea
Mike Romain
Blister eh? ;-)
Mike
twaldron
give it a shot. You may have been quoting me below, but I'm sure there
are others with sentiments in that direction among the Jeep crew. Let me
qualify that statement by saying the new JK will never REPLACE my
current SWB Wrangler. I could see owning one of the 4dr models to
compliment the TJ, but one of the things I love about the TJ is that it
has largely held on to the CJ7 size which I enjoy on/offroad. The JK is
bigger and less appealing to me, but it also depends on the size of the
trails you are running as well.
tw