Black goop coming from A/C compressor clutch?
little man upon the stair
I don't know if the A/C compressor has ever been changed, but I saw
some mysterious black material that looked like acrylic spray paint
splattered on the alternator a few months ago.
I didn't know what it could be and forgot about it. But the A/C quit
working last week and I drove for 20 minutes or so before turning the
A/C selector switch off.
I smelled a funny odor and I thought I saw smoke coming out from under
the hood.
When I stopped, the A/C compressor clutch had quit working and there
was a lot of the black stuff splattered on the alternator fins and on
the serpentine belt tensioner and the black splatter had radiated all
around the A/C clutch, even onto the sound absorbent material under
the hood.
The clutch bearing is worn out too, the A/C clutch flops around about
1/8th of an inch and makes a grinding sound as the engine runs. I can
see shiny little metal flakes that have come off the bearing...
The electrical coil in the A/C clutch has also burned out...
I can get a new compressor with clutch for $250 to $300, but I was
wondering what really caused all that black stuff to splatter
all over the place.
Could a compressor seal have blown out simultaneously with
the clutch failure and the coil burning up?
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
wheel by hand, as seen in this picture not attached to it's shaft:
http://www.billhughes.com/temp/compress.jpg That will mean it's veins came
apart, and hiding in at least three thousand dollars worth of places, ready
to explode the next compressor.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:BillH...@billhughes.com
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
"little man upon the stair" <macm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3239882f-f6aa-48a4...@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Will Honea
I just rebuilt my compressor and the rule of thumb is that if the compressor
shaft is hard to turn or frozen you might as well spring for a new one.
The a/c oil does a good job of coating the underside of the hood just above
the a/c clutch if it's leaking. Any play AT ALL in the clutch means a new
clutch - period. Since it turns anytime the engine is running, you're a
pedestrian until you get a new pulley and bearing in there but whether the
compressor is salvageable or not is still an open question. If you can
turn the compressor shaft - not the clutch - with a suitable wrench on the
nut at the end of the shaft note whether it turns smoothly with no rough
spots. If not, forget it - it's toast. It will cost you as much or more
to have it rebuilt as a new one will anyway. If you elect to go back to
the old 4/60 system (4 windows open at 60 mph) you still need a working
pulley wheel where the a/c clutch was before you can drive it. I went to
the junk yard and got a whole compressor with a good clutch bearing to
serve while I had the one out for repairs. I left the clutch disconnected
as I had no idea what shape the compressor was in but I needed the pulley
for the the fan belt. My only problem was blown seals but yours sounds
sounds like a basket case - get a local chop to render an opinion but I'd
bet you're looking at a new compressor at the very least. If the
compressor shaft is frozen or rough turning, you're in for a a bunch of new
parts - the condensor, receiver/dryer, expansion valve and possibly the
evaporator core are almost certainly full of bits and pieces. Big bucks
time.
--
Will Honea
little man upon the stair
> I just rebuilt my compressor and the rule of thumb is that if the compressor
> shaft is hard to turn or frozen you might as well spring for a new one.
Thanks for answering my query, Will.
Actually, the compressor shaft turns, but I have no idea how much
force it should normally take to to turn it.
> The a/c oil does a good job of coating the underside of the hood just above
> the a/c clutch if it's leaking.
But does the oil dry like black acrylic paint, or does it stay oily? I
would expect it to stay oily.
Maybe the dried black stuff is a mixture of neoprene oil seal and
compressor oil?
> Any play AT ALL in the clutch means a new clutch - period.
According to my web searching so far, there are *no* Sanden A/C
compressor clutches available separately, and one owner on another
forum said that parts would cost around $200 if bought from a Jeep
dealer.
A new compressor with clutch is about $250. Throw in the accumulator
and the o-ring kit and expansion orifice and I'm looking at $296.00
from Discount AC.
I'm wondering is whether there is still any refrigerant in the system.
I don't have a pressure gauge.
I don't like the idea of taking my vehicle to any of the local service
shops and paying an eager young kid to have the refrigerant sucked out
if there isn't any refrigerant left in there.
I suppose I will find out when I open up the system to install the new
compressor and dryer...
> Since it turns anytime the engine is running, you're a
> pedestrian until you get a new pulley and bearing in there but whether the
> compressor is salvageable or not is still an open question.
Actually, I have driven almost 200 miles with the A/C compressor
clutch grinding away and making a bad smell, so I can get around town
on my little errands.
Even though the clutch hub bearing is toast, the serpentine belt
tensioner keeps
the belt tight.
> If you can
> turn the compressor shaft - not the clutch - with a suitable wrench on the
> nut at the end of the shaft note whether it turns smoothly with no rough
> spots.
> My only problem was blown seals but yours sounds
> sounds like a basket case - get a local chop to render an opinion but I'd
> bet you're looking at a new compressor at the very least.
I'm a fairly good mechanic and have lots of good quality tools.
I've been doing all my own work for almost half a century, ever since
a mechanic at an Oldsmobile dealership tried to con me into taking my
1951 Rocket 88 to his house so he could rebuilt my hydramatic.
It seems like the u-joints were worn out and they were making a
clanking noise, but the crooked mechanic wanted to charge me a lot of
money, claiming I needed a lot of unnecessary work done. He claimed
that the transmission had an "exploded rear drum"...
If I started telling stories about all the times mechanics have tried
to cheat me, I'd be typing for hours.
After *many* unsatisfactory experiences with dishonest mechanics, I
don't like to be treated like a fool anymore. So I stay away from the
dealerships and independent mechanics.
> If the compressor shaft is frozen or rough turning, you're in for a a bunch of new
> parts - the condensor, receiver/dryer, expansion valve and possibly the
> evaporator core are almost certainly full of bits and pieces. Big bucks
> time.
The compressor shaft does turn, but I have no idea of how many foot
pounds of torque it normally takes to turn the shaft. I guess I will
know whether there's any oil and refrigerant left in the system when I
open it up next week.
I understand the moral implications of releasing refrigerant into the
environment, but, if there isn't any refrigerant left in the system, I
guess I won't burn in Hell for
opening it up...
Will Honea
> On Aug 19, 12:09 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I just rebuilt my compressor and the rule of thumb is that if the
>> compressor shaft is hard to turn or frozen you might as well spring for a
>> new one.
>
> Thanks for answering my query, Will.
>
> Actually, the compressor shaft turns, but I have no idea how much
> force it should normally take to to turn it.
It will take a fair amount - remember that you are actually turning a
working compressor. My rule of thumb is that if you can turn the shaft with
a wrench without a whole lot of grunting that is a good sign. Mine spun
pretty well with a quarter in drill driving it but the drill was straining
at speed. What you really want to know is if it turns smoothly. That's a
little hard to tell because of the pistons loading up but those will be
fairly soft bumps. Anything like a sudden sharp bump is cause for
suspicion. Just a thought... Your's sounds like it was burning the clutch.
That is a metal-to-metal contact with very minimal slippage and any slip
will get VERY hot in a hurry. It also gets noisy - think irritated wife
noise, high and screeching.
>> The a/c oil does a good job of coating the underside of the hood just
>> above the a/c clutch if it's leaking.
>
> But does the oil dry like black acrylic paint, or does it stay oily? I
> would expect it to stay oily.
>
> Maybe the dried black stuff is a mixture of neoprene oil seal and
> compressor oil?
On mine, it just collected dirt and turned nasty. You may have melted the
potting compound out of the windings. In a way, that's good because that
much heat would have cooked the bearing.
>>Any play AT ALL in the clutch means a new clutch - period.
>
> According to my web searching so far, there are *no* Sanden A/C
> compressor clutches available separately, and one owner on another
> forum said that parts would cost around $200 if bought from a Jeep
> dealer.
>
> A new compressor with clutch is about $250. Throw in the accumulator
> and the o-ring kit and expansion orifice and I'm looking at $296.00
> from Discount AC.
I used http://www.ackits.com. I called and they were pretty helpful. They
are based in Phoenix, so I expect they see a lot of a/c action ;-)
> I'm wondering is whether there is still any refrigerant in the system.
> I don't have a pressure gauge.
Three suggestions:
1. Advanced Auto here has a rack of a/c service kits and small parts. One
is a cheapy filler with a low side connector, guage, and can tap. Under
$10.
2. Harbor Freight sells a full manifold set for about $40 and frequently
puts it on sale for $29.99.
3. Put on a GOOD set of long gloves and safety glasses, then use a long
screwdriver to just bump the low side valve - if it squirts anything, the
system is charged to at least some degree.
I recommend #2. Harbor Freight has a web site you can order from. If you
intend to do any serious work on this thing you will need the gauge set and
their cheap one performs just as well as my Snap-on set. Even that one has
paid for itself several times over in the years I've had it.
> I don't like the idea of taking my vehicle to any of the local service
> shops and paying an eager young kid to have the refrigerant sucked out
> if there isn't any refrigerant left in there.
>
> I suppose I will find out when I open up the system to install the new
> compressor and dryer...
>
>> Since it turns anytime the engine is running, you're a
>> pedestrian until you get a new pulley and bearing in there but whether
>> the compressor is salvageable or not is still an open question.
>
> Actually, I have driven almost 200 miles with the A/C compressor
> clutch grinding away and making a bad smell, so I can get around town
> on my little errands.
>
> Even though the clutch hub bearing is toast, the serpentine belt
> tensioner keeps
> the belt tight.
Wear good shoes and keep a water bottle handy - that system won't last long.
Also add a new serpentine belt to you cost ;)
See above - you're really just looking for smooth operation. You'll feel
the bumps from the pistons if the system is charged but you can feel the
difference between compression and mechanical roughness.
> I understand the moral implications of releasing refrigerant into the
> environment, but, if there isn't any refrigerant left in the system, I
> guess I won't burn in Hell for
> opening it up...
You may get by with replacing the clutch in the vehicle without opening the
system if you can find one. Make sure you have a decent puller and a good
set of snap ring pliers. I'd bet that it would be more work than it's
worth, though. No need for the drier and the other stuff if the compressor
is OK and just needs a clutch. New o-rings are a must for anything you
disconnect, though.
There are several sites online where people have rebuilt/replaced
compressors and the Sanden manuals are available online in pdf format.
--
Will Honea
Dale Beckett
>
> clutch grinding away and making a bad smell, so I can get around town
> on my little errands.
>
> Even though the clutch hub bearing is toast, the serpentine belt
> tensioner keeps
> the belt tight.
I would do *something* as soon as possible, before driving much more. If
that pulley, bearing, or whatever comes apart while you're driving, you
could be looking at more damage to unrelated things under the hood.
--
Dale Beckett
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
have them un-jam a slave or pads in the last question!!!!! I'll bet you
couldn't even drain your Intrepid without destroying it. I'm glad you
deserted and are hiding in Canada, you would have surely cost an American
his life!!!! I do wish you had tried to answer this A/C question as it
enrolled the low pressure switch so it would been impossible to burn up the
clutch.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:BillH...@billhughes.com
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
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From: Throntum Mechanic <throntum_...@FSOJ.net>
Organization: Hughes Harassers and SEMI Slammers, LTD
Subject: Re: Black goop coming from A/C compressor clutch?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:32:13 -0700
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Throntum Mechanic" <throntum_...@FSOJ.net>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: Black goop coming from A/C compressor clutch?
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:44:07 -0700, Tinkerbelle Hughes III wrote:
>
> > I don't think
>
>
> That's pretty obvious, Bill.
>
> And you didn't answer the question, either.
>
>
>