Lots of Changes for Jeep
Coasty
Yep the 2013 wrangler will have Fiat motor, glad I have my 04 I-6.
Hope the line stays but only time will tell.
Lon
And the new Grand is a Mercedes ML series with a different body.
Even Porsche is emasculating the offroad capability of the Cayenne.
Seems all of the off-road capable brands are being turned into Wussmobiles.
Since I can't afford a G-Wagen, just may have to see if the neighbor
down the street wants to unload his old Pinzgauer.
J. Clarke
Well, they're recognizing that the market they are really filling is the one
that used to be filled by Lincoln Town Cars and the like before CAFE forced
the manufacturers to truckify them.
DougW
http://www.fiat.co.nz/default.aspx?MenuId=125
:)
PUT DOWN THAT COFFEE!!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5lxrj_extrem-fiat-offroad_auto
--
DougW
J. Clarke
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Lon wrote:
>>> Coasty wrote:
>>>> http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1037914_fiat-based-jeeps-coming-in-2013
>>>>
>>>> Yep the 2013 wrangler will have Fiat motor, glad I have my 04 I-6.
>>>> Hope the line stays but only time will tell.
>>>
>>> And the new Grand is a Mercedes ML series with a different body.
>>>
>>> Even Porsche is emasculating the offroad capability of the Cayenne.
>>> Seems all of the off-road capable brands are being turned into
>>> Wussmobiles.
>>>
>>> Since I can't afford a G-Wagen, just may have to see if the neighbor
>>> down the street wants to unload his old Pinzgauer.
>>
>> Well, they're recognizing that the market they are really filling is
>> the one that used to be filled by Lincoln Town Cars and the like
>> before CAFE forced the manufacturers to truckify them.
>
> http://www.fiat.co.nz/default.aspx?MenuId=125
>
> :)
Actually that kind of thing has a long history in Europe. Remember the
Volkswagen Bus Type 3 ("Type 25" in some markets) Syncro, which was produced
from 1985 to 1992?
In the European model it even had air lockers.
randal...@gmail.com
> http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1037914_fiat-based-jeeps...
>
> Yep the 2013 wrangler will have Fiat motor, glad I have my 04 I-6.
> Hope the line stays but only time will tell.
I sure am glad I have my FSJ, and probably the last one I'll need. I
can't see these new girlie-jeeps going to the places that I go in the
traditional Jeep.
Will Honea
The driveway at a friend's house I visited today looked worse than that
road. Even snowpacked and icy it was usable by all 4 cars we had up
there - and the only reason the Jeep saw 4wd was to knock down some 4 ft
drifts blocking the patio entrance. Wussmobile, indeed!
--
Will Honea
soc...@shaw.ca
more than an image mobile!
Along with people wearing "The North Face" clothing to make them look
"Outdoorsy" and "Rugged"
PeterD
Is it me, or does any one else think the 'new' Wrangler just looks
totally wrong, and non-Jeep like? Curved sides? Fancy door handles? So
many 'wrong' (or non-traditional Jeep) things that I have a lot of
trouble seeing it as any different from the typical soccer mom-grocery
getter SUV!
Years ago, they tried to go to non-round headlights, and buyers
quickly educated Jeep that the Wrangler had certain standards to meet,
such as round headlights. Now, I hear little or nothing about the
Wrangler SUV.
J. Clarke
It looks like it's "inspired by".
On the other hand, we don't really know what pressures they were
under--there might be sound engineering reasons for all of it. I doubt it,
but there _might_.
DougW
> PeterD wrote:
>> socks09 wrote:
>>
>>> Lets face it, most of the 4X4 vehicles on the road today are nothing
>>> more than an image mobile!
>>> Along with people wearing "The North Face" clothing to make them
>>> look "Outdoorsy" and "Rugged"
>>
>> Is it me, or does any one else think the 'new' Wrangler just looks
>> totally wrong, and non-Jeep like? Curved sides? Fancy door handles?
>> So many 'wrong' (or non-traditional Jeep) things that I have a lot of
>> trouble seeing it as any different from the typical soccer
>> mom-grocery getter SUV!
>>
>> Years ago, they tried to go to non-round headlights, and buyers
>> quickly educated Jeep that the Wrangler had certain standards to
>> meet, such as round headlights. Now, I hear little or nothing about
>> the Wrangler SUV.
>
> It looks like it's "inspired by".
http://www.jeep.com/en/2010/wrangler_unlimited/
Still round headlights. I like it myself.
> On the other hand, we don't really know what pressures they were
> under--there might be sound engineering reasons for all of it. I
> doubt it, but there _might_.
They could have gone here.
http://www.vychytane.sk/filesystem/image/200811/777-0-barbie-jeep.jpg
--
DougW
randal...@gmail.com
All of the new Barbie-Jeeps look the same, with the exception of the
Commander, which looks like a polished down Hummer. It appears that a
decision was taken some years ago to citify and homogenize the Jeep
product line. They took away the brief promise of the diesel-powered
Liberty, scrapped the Gladiator concept and (built the diminutive
"Patriot" instead. They eliminated the best of the Wranglers, the LWB
Unlimited, and instead produced the morose and ungainly-looking 4-door
Wrangler. None of these unsightly vehicles look as if they would be
much good off the pavement.
Larry
wrote:
And, I understand, the patriot and compass is to be eliminated from
the jeep line up. Ironically the Patriot got some good reviews for
economy. What has surprised me is that Jeep appears to have done away
with the selectrac/command trac options across the board. I think I
will be keeping my 98 Cherokee, with selectrac, for a long time
because it feels competent in all kinds of weather. I was surprised
to see the gov designate it as a clunker to get it off the road. When
I look at a 98 Cherokee all I see is a classic. Now if only I had
kept my 99 wrangler! Larry
DougW
> And, I understand, the patriot and compass is to be eliminated from
> the jeep line up. Ironically the Patriot got some good reviews for
> economy. What has surprised me is that Jeep appears to have done away
> with the selectrac/command trac options across the board. I think I
> will be keeping my 98 Cherokee, with selectrac, for a long time
> because it feels competent in all kinds of weather. I was surprised
> to see the gov designate it as a clunker to get it off the road. When
> I look at a 98 Cherokee all I see is a classic. Now if only I had
> kept my 99 wrangler! Larry
With the aftermarket parts out there you could probably build one from
scratch. :) I was just googling tube-frames and fiberglass bodies.
The new Quadratrack II and if you believe the rumor mill QT III will
have the same capability as the Selec/Command trac units with none
of the "gosh you mean I can't drive it on dry pavement in 4WD!!?!?!!?"
I've seen/felt what the QT II can do and it is impressive. Actually
started thinking about replacing my QT I with a newer version but
it just isn't cost effective. Pair that with the VariLock front and
rear diffs and you get with the QT II and you wind up with a competent
and well handling vehicle without the "bad" characteristics of full lockers.
Of course your not going to be using it for rock crawling or places
where full up bullet-proof drivetrain is needed. But at lest it
won't snap like the Hummer IFS does. ;)
--
DougW
J. Clarke
My EYES. My EYES . . .
Old Crow
news:cc6gf5ttcd3etd3b9...@4ax.com...
Hate to tell you, but I know a whole bunch of guys(me included)who like
square headlights on their Wranglers.
Sooner or later the new Wrangler style will grow on some people. Not sure
I'm one of those, though.
Did finally see an Unlimited that I liked the look of, but it had 33x12.50's
and several inchs of lift. I kinda think they look ungainly in stock trim.
I
--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 'Mistress Pearl'
'87 FLTC 'Fugly'
'61 F-100
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM
randal...@gmail.com
I do wonder how many perfectly good Jeeps went to the crusher with
this "clunkers" idiocy.
randal...@gmail.com
That reminds me that I have always been curious about the "no FWD on
pavement" proscription. What is the reason for it. I do drive mine
10 miles per month on pavement, just to excercise the systems per the
manual, but I keep it to 10 miles unless off the pavement.
randal...@gmail.com
I do wonder how many perfectly good Jeeps went to the crusher with
this "clunkers" idiocy.
DougW
> That reminds me that I have always been curious about the "no FWD on
> pavement" proscription. What is the reason for it. I do drive mine
> 10 miles per month on pavement, just to excercise the systems per the
> manual, but I keep it to 10 miles unless off the pavement.
Good question.
When the front and rear shaft are locked together (part-time 4wd)
the minor differences in tire diameter will cause a great deal of
stress to build up in the drive train. Eventually this will _POP_
(skid one of the tires/axles) to release. Given enough time this
repeated hammering will find the weakest part of the drivetrain.
Transfer case chain, U joints, etc.
Full-time 4wd has a limited slip or center differential that allows
this tension to be released without putting undue stress on the
rest of the drive train.
--
DougW
Larry
The gotcha in the clunker program was the fact that if you got a $4500
rebate for your vehicle from the gov, it is considered income for you
and you have pay to income tax on it, like about 30% one financial
writer wrote. Also before the clunker deal the very same new vehicle
was probably setting on someone's car lot discounted 4000 or so
dollars as it was difficult to move it. The clunker program might work
for you if you were able to get the rebate and a dealer reduction on
top of the rebate then you might have come out ok, even with paying
the income tax.
I remember the good ole days when you were able to deduct the interest
on your car payments from your income. Not sure when that stopped.
Now that kind of program would make some sense!
Larry
Apple2Steward
"randal...@mac.com" <randal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8a1bbd2-777b-40dc...@h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Randall, your 1987 Grand Wagoneer, if to factory specs, could
have either a NP229 Selec-Trac (standard) or an NP208 Command
trac transfer case (optional). The NP229 should have a
vacuum-actuating 2WD-4WD switch below the steering wheel.
The NP229 can be driven in 4-Hi 4 wheel drive full time on any
surface, and it should say that somewhere in the Owner's Manual.
4 lo mode is Part Time and can be driven on low traction surfaces
like snow or gravel.
The NP208 has only Part-Time 4-Hi and 4-Lo. It should never be
driven in either 4WD on regular pavement (maybe briefly in a
straight line) because the front and rear drive shafts are locked
to rotate together. On a curve, either a wheel will slip or
something will break.
randal...@gmail.com
> "randallbr...@mac.com" <randallbr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Thank you, this is very interesting information. I will consult the
owners manual to determine which one I have. From your description,
however, I believe I have the NP229 Selec-trac, as I do have the
"2WD-4WD" switch below the dash on the right side of the steering
column.
Just out of curiosity, what, if any, was the advantage of the "Command
Trac" transfer case that would cause anyone to order it as an option?
randal...@gmail.com
wrote:
I see. I was never made aware of this, and it is certainly good
information to know. I may do my "10 miles a month" in the winter on
gravel roads.
randal...@gmail.com
Larry--My recollection is that the interest deduction went away during
the Jimmy Cater unpleasantness.
It is ironic that the $4,500 auto rebate is considered "income" but an
$8,000 "First Time" homebuyer incentive is a "credit".
dexternicholson
although the changes for the new 4x4 nowadays are really advanced, I
still like to kick it old school. got an old military Willys' jeep and
still looking for some old wranglers.
I do have a 4x4 van but don't really use it that much in areas where
4x4 are needed. most vehicles that has 4x4, those that I know off, have
never tried going into dirt or places where 4x4 is needed. don't know
maybe the car is just too fancy the owner doesn't want to scratch it.
--
dexternicholson
Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com
Richard J Kinch
> Is it me, or does any one else think the 'new' Wrangler just looks
> totally wrong, and non-Jeep like?
Aesthetically, yes. It looks better, but not Jeep-like. Part of the Jeep
look is a strict economy of structure in a pre-computer sense. Everything
as close to straight stock dimensional metal and sheet metal. No CAD
systems to blend curves.
Of course, I think shiny paint looks non-Jeep like. Why is flat olive drab
green not a stock color?