Anybody with any Painting experience?
mfa...@pmsc.com
would really like to paint it myself just for the satisfaction and knowledge,
but I'm not real sure on some things. I have a good compressor and gravity
feed gun to use, so I have those bases covered.
My main concerns are the type of paint to use.
I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
I have absolutely no experience with basecoat/clearcoat but I hear that's the
way to go. Can anyone tell the steps here....how many coats of base do you
need and how much if any wait time in between coats. How long do you wait
before you apply the clear and how long between coats of clear if multiples
are needed?
I am almost finished with the body work. I have cut out the rust spots and
patched over them. Filled in the old top snap holes with a welder and smoothed
back out. Removed those factory decals, boy what a job!
I've sanded most of the CJ with 220 and 320 paper. Should I finish the sanding
with a wet sand and 400 paper?
Lastly, do I need to primer the whole Jeep and will spot priming suffice? If I
do prime it, how long do I wait before the color is sprayed?
I need some good advice because I've gotten too much from people who are
telling me different things.
__________________________________________________
Matt Faile
mfa...@hotmail.com
80 CJ-7 Renegade
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Michael K. Rockwell
>I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
Use a good Uerothane paint. It's a lot stronger and holds up better.
>
>I have absolutely no experience with basecoat/clearcoat but I hear >that's
the way to go.
A good nasecoat/clearcoat paint will just about double the price of a good
single stage paint.
> Can anyone tell the steps here....how many coats of base do you
>need and how much if any wait time in between coats. How long do >you wait
before you apply the clear and how long between coats of >clear if multiples
are needed?
Find a good reputable automotive paint store and go ask them. That sounds
funny, but they are really the experts. They usually don't or won't sell
things to just "anyone off the street" because of the EPA things. But if
you go talk to them they can really help. The type of paint store I'm
talking about usually only handles paints and painting equipment, not your
average auto-parts store that just happens to have paint (unless they really
specialize).
>
>I am almost finished with the body work. I have cut out the rust spots and
>patched over them. Filled in the old top snap holes with a welder and
smoothed
>back out. Removed those factory decals, boy what a job!
>I've sanded most of the CJ with 220 and 320 paper. Should I finish >the
sanding with a wet sand and 400 paper?
Wet sand with soapy water.
>Lastly, do I need to primer the whole Jeep and will spot priming suffice?
If I do prime it, how long do I wait before the color is sprayed?
Prime the entire job, but use a good prep solution to make sure there is no
oil or wax or anything on the old paint that will cause fish-eyes. The
paint can usually tells how long before you can apply the color. But before
you shoot any paint, you have to wet sand the primer with 600 paper very
lightly to knock off any hi spots in the primer and give the paint a surface
to stick to. Then you have to tack off the entire surface.
Jerry Bransford
>
> Hi all, I'm in the process of refinishing my CJ and I need some advice. I
> would really like to paint it myself just for the satisfaction and knowledge,
> but I'm not real sure on some things. I have a good compressor and gravity
> feed gun to use, so I have those bases covered.
>
> I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
>
> need and how much if any wait time in between coats. How long do you wait
> before you apply the clear and how long between coats of clear if multiples
> are needed?
>
> patched over them. Filled in the old top snap holes with a welder and smoothed
> back out. Removed those factory decals, boy what a job!
> I've sanded most of the CJ with 220 and 320 paper. Should I finish the sanding
> with a wet sand and 400 paper?
>
> do prime it, how long do I wait before the color is sprayed?
>
> telling me different things.
Unless you don't really care how it turns out, I'd have a pro paint your
CJ. There are too many variables in what can affect how paint goes onto
a vehicle and each must be compensated for by the use of paint additives
and thinners. The variables even include the air temperature and
humidity that if not compensated for, can cause all kinds of painting
problems from orange-peel (looks like the rippled surface of an orange)
to you name it.
A buddy of mine in college, with no automotive painting experience,
rented an old paint shop and maxed out his Sears charge card to purchase
all the stuff needed to paint cars including a $1,000 air compressor,
paint guns, etc. His first three cars were disasters from which he
jumped ship to abandon his painting career poste-haste.
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL KC6TAY C.A.P.
The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
Rich Pierson
>
> I need some good advice because I've gotten too much from people who are
> telling me different things.
Go check out your local Vo-Tech or High School, they offer full automotive
paint/body courses. My local one offers one for $248 + materials, I started
the course in Oct and it was cancelled for the rest of the semester due to
the new EPA apporved paint booths not working correctly, the compter controlled
temp system was not working correctly and would no light off the gas furnace to
do the curing.
In a nut shell it would have cost me $248 [course]+ $190 [materials] + $300
[parts for my trooper, 2 front fenders, rear bumper, sheet metal] for a
total of $738 to redo my 87 Trooper II. The best quote I got from several
body shops was $3000.00. I plan of taking it in Feb when they open it back
up, I'll also be fixing my rockers on my 98XJ and that should only take
2 nites to pop em out and prime/paint em....
--
*************************************************
Richard J. Pierson
fi...@ptd.net
*************************************************
Harry Andreas
<m...@awod.com> wrote:
> >My main concerns are the type of paint to use.
> >I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
>
> Use a good Uerothane paint. It's a lot stronger and holds up better.
Not good advice for a rank beginner.
Urethanes are quite toxic and an amateur isn't likely to to have the
correct equipment, nor appreciate the differences in equipment necessary
to apply urethanes safely.
For the DIY, stick with acrylics. If having it professionally done, you're
right, urethanes are better.
--
Harry Andreas
the engineering raconteur
replace baloney with computer to reply
x 4 @interpex.com Christo Slee
http://members.home.com/christoslee
I painted my CJ & a Wrangler front end in my garage.
--
Christo Slee
4x4 (at) interpex(dot)com
1981 CJ7, 258
1995 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ80
Jpmadman
>paint/body courses. My local one offers one for $248 + materials, I started
>the course in Oct and it was cancelled for the rest of the semester due to
>the new EPA apporved paint booths not working correctly, the compter
>controlled
>temp system was not working correctly and would no light off the gas furnace
>to
>do the curing.
>In a nut shell it would have cost me $248 [course]+ $190 [materials] + $300
>[parts for my trooper, 2 front fenders, rear bumper, sheet metal] for a
>total of $738 to redo my 87 Trooper II. The best quote I got from several
>body shops was $3000.00. I plan of taking it in Feb when they open it back
>up, I'll also be fixing my rockers on my 98XJ and that should only take
>2 nites to pop em out and prime/paint em....
>--
i take an auto body coarse in billerica mass. and for about $900 i did all the
work on my 89 YJ . i striped it bare and did the inside and out on the whole
thing . it feels so good when someone says nice jeep . and i know IM the one
who did all the work . you should look into those classes too . and the best
part of all is you pay cost on everything , there is no markup what so ever
when you go through a school . the job i wanted done on my jeep would have cost
me at least $4000. ( thats the lowest quote i got ) and i did it for $900 , now
how can you beat that ?
Happy Trails
Aaron "jpma...@aol.com"
Red 89 YJ
Real Jeeper's Do The Wave !!!!
Remove " DOORS " to reply by E-Mail
Hompage http://members.aol.com/jpmadman/index.html
My jeep is on the jeep link page .
pjc...@midusa.net
Jerry Bransford wrote:
> mfa...@pmsc.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, I'm in the process of refinishing my CJ and I need some advice. I
> > would really like to paint it myself just for the satisfaction and knowledge,
> > but I'm not real sure on some things. I have a good compressor and gravity
> > feed gun to use, so I have those bases covered.
> >
> > My main concerns are the type of paint to use.
> > I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
> >
> > I have absolutely no experience with basecoat/clearcoat but I hear that's the
> > way to go. Can anyone tell the steps here....how many coats of base do you
> > need and how much if any wait time in between coats. How long do you wait
> > before you apply the clear and how long between coats of clear if multiples
> > are needed?
Shoot your your base and depending on the product you shoot the clear within hours
depending on humidity and temp.. I always went 3 clear 3 base but a lot depends on
the color...
> >
> > I am almost finished with the body work. I have cut out the rust spots and
> > patched over them. Filled in the old top snap holes with a welder and smoothed
> > back out. Removed those factory decals, boy what a job!
> > I've sanded most of the CJ with 220 and 320 paper. Should I finish the sanding
> > with a wet sand and 400 paper?
SAN SAND SAND..your not even close to finished yet with 320 youll be pullin sand
scratches out till kindom come get 'er down to at least 600....and tack tack
tack...wet sand after that.
> >
> > Lastly, do I need to primer the whole Jeep and will spot priming suffice? If I
> > do prime it, how long do I wait before the color is sprayed?
Again you will need to follow manufactuers directions to the letter....I have had
great results with acid etching epoxy primer.
> >
> > I need some good advice because I've gotten too much from people who are
> > telling me different things.
The best advice I can give you is find a couple of different body shop supply and
ask a ton of questions....they will be able to help ya...check out a couple body
shops I bet youll find some who is a fourwheeler and will help....
Frank Silano
>
>
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>> mfa...@pmsc.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all, I'm in the process of refinishing my CJ and I need some advice. I
>> > would really like to paint it myself just for the satisfaction and knowledge,
>> > but I'm not real sure on some things. I have a good compressor and gravity
>> > feed gun to use, so I have those bases covered.
>> >
>> > My main concerns are the type of paint to use.
>> > I know that generally acrylic enamel is cheaper, but is it better?
>> >
Urethane/Polyurethane Enamel is the most durable / best looking
product. It is the factory standard for 99% of all mfgrs.
>> > I have absolutely no experience with basecoat/clearcoat but I hear that's the
>> > way to go. Can anyone tell the steps here....how many coats of base do you
>> > need and how much if any wait time in between coats. How long do you wait
>> > before you apply the clear and how long between coats of clear if multiples
>> > are needed?
>
>Shoot your your base and depending on the product you shoot the clear within hours
>depending on humidity and temp.. I always went 3 clear 3 base but a lot depends on
>the color...
>
Use basecoat / clearcoat if possible. You can use single stage (no
clear) for solid colors if you wish but even with solid colors, base /
clear is preferable.
A couple of things to remember are that the temperature and humidity
have a dramatic effect on how you apply the product. Generally
speaking, you can follow this formula, higher temperatures = faster
drying (tack-free); higher humidity=slower drying (tack-free).
Apply the color so that the panel or vehicle is completely covered
(i.e you can't see through the paint) and then add two-three more
coats depending on how well the color 'covers'. Usually Reds, Silvers,
and Yellows require a lot of coats (4-8) before you achive 'coverage'
whereas colors such as Navy Blue and Black will cover with just a few
coats (2-4). Use your judgement. If it takes more coats to cover then
you will probably need to give it 3 more coats to make sure everything
is uniformly covered. If it only took a few coats to cover then 2
final 'insurance coats' should suffice. All coats should be
'tack-free' (you should be able to lightly touch the paint without
sticking to it) before applying the next coat (usually around 15
minutes at 80F).
NOTE: On a Base / Clear ('2 stage') system, don't be overly concerned
about the texture or smoothness or gloss (it should be sort of dull)
of the finish at the base coat stage...moderation is the key here and
some colors are more forgiving than others. Just try not to put it on
too dry or too wet (too dry and you will affect the final texture and
color - too wet and you will get blotchiness, runs, and other
non-desirable conditions such as 'solvent pops'). The texture and
gloss will be achived / perfected in the Clearcoat.
After the Basecoat is on...3 wet coats of clear should do the trick.
Watch out or you could come down with a case of the runs! <g>
>> >
>> > I am almost finished with the body work. I have cut out the rust spots and
>> > patched over them. Filled in the old top snap holes with a welder and smoothed
>> > back out. Removed those factory decals, boy what a job!
>> > I've sanded most of the CJ with 220 and 320 paper. Should I finish the sanding
>> > with a wet sand and 400 paper?
>
>SAN SAND SAND..your not even close to finished yet with 320 youll be pullin sand
>scratches out till kindom come get 'er down to at least 600....and tack tack
>tack...wet sand after that.
>
>> >
>> > Lastly, do I need to primer the whole Jeep and will spot priming suffice? If I
>> > do prime it, how long do I wait before the color is sprayed?
>
If you have sanded the entire vehicle with 220-320 then you should
prime the vehicle. I reccomend a good, wet-sandable urethane epoxy
primer (could be expensive but well worth the investment!). Apply as
per manufacturer's instructions. After the primer has dried
(preferably 24 hours) give it a good wet sand with 600 wet-or-dry.
>Again you will need to follow manufactuers directions to the letter....I have had
>great results with acid etching epoxy primer.
>
>> >
>> > I need some good advice because I've gotten too much from people who are
>> > telling me different things.
>
>The best advice I can give you is find a couple of different body shop supply and
>ask a ton of questions....they will be able to help ya...check out a couple body
>shops I bet youll find some who is a fourwheeler and will help....
>
>>
>>
>> Unless you don't really care how it turns out, I'd have a pro paint your
>> CJ. There are too many variables in what can affect how paint goes onto
>> a vehicle and each must be compensated for by the use of paint additives
>> and thinners. The variables even include the air temperature and
>> humidity that if not compensated for, can cause all kinds of painting
>> problems from orange-peel (looks like the rippled surface of an orange)
>> to you name it.
>>
>> A buddy of mine in college, with no automotive painting experience,
>> rented an old paint shop and maxed out his Sears charge card to purchase
>> all the stuff needed to paint cars including a $1,000 air compressor,
>> paint guns, etc. His first three cars were disasters from which he
>> jumped ship to abandon his painting career poste-haste.
>>
I have been painting close to 20 years and I can tell you that this is
good advice. This is not for first timers unless you don't really care
if there are some (possibly horrible) flaws, or you just want to do it
your self for the experience... if so, be prepared for the
consequences / costs of 'corrective surgery'.
NOTE: The absolute all around BEST paint product/systems out there
(IMO) are:
1) Glasurit/BASF
2) House of Kolor
3) Sikkens
Good spray guns would be DeVilbiss JGA (siphon) or SATA Jet (gravity).
WAX, SILICONE, and GREASE are a painter's worst enemies! Always
degrease / dewax vehicle with a good pre-cleaner such as DuPont
PrepSol or R-M PreKleeno and follow ther manufacturer's instructions.
WATER will also kill your paint job! CLEAN and DRY is the rule!!
ALWAYS USE A GOOD RESPIRATOR THAT IS OSHA APPROVED AND MADE ESPECIALLY
FOR THE SUBSTANCE YOU ARE WORKING WITH. FAILURE TO HEED THIS WARNING
COULD RESULT IN DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(NO JOKE)
Peace and God bless,
Frank A. Silano
Retired Auto Painter
Certified by Glasurit, Sikkens, DuPont, I-CAR, 3M
Specialist in Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Mazda, Chrysler, Ford, GM,
Harley-Davidson and custom refinishing.
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL KC6TAY C.A.P.
>> The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
>
>
Frank A. Silano
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St. Petersburg, Florida
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