Oil Change Frequency
Mel P.
Now with the car's 'maintenance minder", it shows the oil life left which
is 5-7K miles.
If I REALLY can go by it, I have no problems.
Just asking if it will wear the engine out quicker.
thanks,
--
Mel
Vincent Parry
If you're into recreational oil changing, lock 'n load, it won't hurt --
unless you have a heavy hand and strip the threads in the drain hole.
Otherwise, follow the mfr's schedule. They designed and built the engine
and know best what's needed to keep it running well.
Seth
"Mel P." <mpern...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:i297rv$a09$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
On my '01 Accord I don't change the oil till the indicator says to (usually
around the 7,000 mile mark). I'm now at 256,xxx miles and the engine still
runs smooth. So engine longevity is not an issue. And I've spent half as
much as I would if I followed the '60s thought process and changed every 3k.
jim beam
are you using crappy oil from the 1950's with poor additives and poor
base quality? 'cos if so, stick to the 3k mile regime.
otherwise, honda have gone to a lot of trouble to eliminate guesswork,
superstition and witchcraft from their vehicles, so you can be confident
that the minder will keep your engine safe.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
ACAR
snip
>
> otherwise, honda have gone to a lot of trouble to eliminate guesswork,
> superstition and witchcraft from their vehicles, so you can be confident
> that the minder will keep your engine safe.
>
> --
While I agree that modern oils can go 5K to 10K miles between oil
changes, how can you suggest that Honda's on-board maintenance minder
is the last word in maintenance when you do not know what algorithm it
uses to calculate oil change frequency?
Experience is not "guesswork, superstition and witchcraft."
jim beam
> On Jul 22, 11:41�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> snip
>>
>> otherwise, honda have gone to a lot of trouble to eliminate guesswork,
>> superstition and witchcraft from their vehicles, so you can be confident
>> that the minder will keep your engine safe.
>>
>> --
>
> While I agree that modern oils can go 5K to 10K miles between oil
> changes, how can you suggest that Honda's on-board maintenance minder
> is the last word in maintenance when you do not know what algorithm it
> uses to calculate oil change frequency?
unless you have numbers, it effectively is the last word. numbers come
from analysis.
>
> Experience is not "guesswork, superstition and witchcraft."
"experience" from analysis?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Vincent Parry
> On Jul 22, 11:41 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> snip
>>
>> otherwise, honda have gone to a lot of trouble to eliminate guesswork,
>> superstition and witchcraft from their vehicles, so you can be confident
>> that the minder will keep your engine safe.
>>
>> --
>
> While I agree that modern oils can go 5K to 10K miles between oil
> changes, how can you suggest that Honda's on-board maintenance minder
> is the last word in maintenance when you do not know what algorithm it
> uses to calculate oil change frequency?
>
>
Wouldja' think, just maybe, that the second largest car company-- with a
sterling reputaion for quality and reliability-- would somehow manage to
plug in the right numbers when programming the Mileage minder?
So woudja', huh?
Vincent Parry
...make that *Japanese* car company...
-----VP
Elle
> how can you suggest that Honda's on-board maintenance minder
> is the last word in maintenance when you do not know what algorithm it
> uses to calculate oil change frequency?
Used oil analyses (UOA) support the computations of maintenance
minders, per
http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm
http://www.flmowner.com/Storage/CommonImages/images/IOLM%20FAQ.pdf
http://www.ganoa.org/Motor_oil2.htm
UOA has been used for decades in other transportation industries and
is a proven method of maximizing machinery life while minimizing the
expense of oil changes.
(Thanks to others for the first two citations above.)
ACAR
> So woudja', huh?
So if Honda is so secure with their algorithm, why do they keep it a
secret?
You think a single algorithm can take into account the entire range of
possible environmental conditions? Or do you think it can account for
"normal" conditions?
Like it or not, Honda is in the business of selling you a car. The
more often you buy one, the more profit they make.
There's tons of oil analysis data available online at bobistheoilguy.
jim beam
> On Jul 26, 3:34�pm, Vincent Parry<vi...@darkpassage.net> wrote:
>> On 7/26/10 12:30 PM, ACAR wrote:
>>
> snip
>> So woudja', huh?
>
> So if Honda is so secure with their algorithm, why do they keep it a
> secret?
it's not - that kind of info is all over the web. it's based on oil
temp and number of revolutions.
now what are you going to do with that info?
> You think a single algorithm can take into account the entire range of
> possible environmental conditions? Or do you think it can account for
> "normal" conditions?
it's a reasonable approximation. if you want to improve on it, you need
on-board opacity, t.b.n. and spectral analysis, and i don't think anyone
does that on road vehicles yet. heck, hardly anyone measures oil level,
and that's the easy one.
>
> Like it or not, Honda is in the business of selling you a car. The
> more often you buy one, the more profit they make.
>
> There's tons of oil analysis data available online at bobistheoilguy.
really? why don't you appear to have read any of it?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim beam
> In article<SbOdndBYp8Ul4cTR...@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>> So if Honda is so secure with their algorithm, why do they keep it a
>>> secret?
>>
>> it's not - that kind of info is all over the web. it's based on oil
>> temp and number of revolutions.
>
don't think so. it's oil temp that matters. outside temp influences
initial, and maybe the high end of summer in vegas, but oil temp is
pretty narrow-band - the rest of the cooling system sees to that.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
ACAR
> On 08/04/2010 04:41 AM, ACAR wrote:
>
> it's not - that kind of info is all over the web. it's based on oil
> temp and number of revolutions.
I know Hondas have a water temperature switch but I hadn't heard they
also have an oil temperature sensor or switch.
>
> now what are you going to do with that info?
well first I'm gonna question whether Honda measures oil temp.
which I don't think they do.
then I'm going to suggest that some other factors (like driving on
dirt roads or sustained high RPM operation) ought to be considered.
>
> > You think a single algorithm can take into account the entire range of
> > possible environmental conditions? Or do you think it can account for
> > "normal" conditions?
>
> it's a reasonable approximation.
reasonable approximation? you're guessing. Honda should publish the
algorithm or at least tell us what variables are used. Elmo thinks
this is some sort of valuable trade secret whereas Honda is probably
obscuring an overly simplistic design. It's an idiot light, nothing
more.
>
> > Like it or not, Honda is in the business of selling you a car. The
> > more often you buy one, the more profit they make.
>
> > There's tons of oil analysis data available online at bobistheoilguy.
>
> really? why don't you appear to have read any of it?
>
enough to know that a wide range of environmental and operating
variables leads to a wide range of engine oil lifespans.
for the average driver, who NEVER checks their oil level between oil
changes, Toyota's 5000 mile interval is probably a safer long-term bet
than Honda's minder. in a Honda, a driver could go a year between
service whereas Toyota's system is likely to bring them in every 6
months.
Tony Harding
> On Jul 26, 3:34 pm, Vincent Parry<vi...@darkpassage.net> wrote:
>> On 7/26/10 12:30 PM, ACAR wrote:
>>
> snip
>> So woudja', huh?
>
> So if Honda is so secure with their algorithm, why do they keep it a
> secret?
Go ask the Coke folks about their formula for Coke. We'll wait, ...
<g>
I can't think of anyone in private enterprise who makes public anything
he/she doesn't have to. They *are* competing with other concerns, you know.
Finally, how do you know the guy you're criticizing doesn't know Honda's
algorithm? If he does, he's probably signed an NDA and couldn't discuss
it anyway.
Take a pill, relax.
jim beam
> On Aug 4, 10:44�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On 08/04/2010 04:41 AM, ACAR wrote:
>>
>> it's not - that kind of info is all over the web. �it's based on oil
>> temp and number of revolutions.
>
> I know Hondas have a water temperature switch but I hadn't heard they
> also have an oil temperature sensor or switch.
they don't - they have a coolant temp sensor. how much different do you
think oil temp and coolant temps are in an all-aluminum engine where
aluminum is an excellent thermal conductor and the oil's picking up its
heat from that aluminum?
>>
>> now what are you going to do with that info?
>
> well first I'm gonna question whether Honda measures oil temp.
> which I don't think they do.
>
> then I'm going to suggest that some other factors (like driving on
> dirt roads
what difference does that make??? assuming you're sticking with factory
air filtration of course. if you're not using factory filtration, i
don't see that /any/ manufacturer can [or should] model for conditions
they don't control.
> or sustained high RPM operation) ought to be considered.
why? what aspect of high rpm's causes whatever it is you're afraid of?
>>
>>> You think a single algorithm can take into account the entire range of
>>> possible environmental conditions? Or do you think it can account for
>>> "normal" conditions?
>>
>> it's a reasonable approximation.
>
> reasonable approximation? you're guessing.
actually, i'm not. a friend of mine is a software engineer that's
worked on these kinds of systems.
> Honda should publish the
> algorithm or at least tell us what variables are used.
why? so they can be second-guessed by a bunch of internet amateurs?
besides, commercial organizations are obligated to protect their
investments.
> Elmo thinks
> this is some sort of valuable trade secret whereas Honda is probably
> obscuring an overly simplistic design. It's an idiot light, nothing
> more.
and this is a perfect example of why there's nothing to be gained by
publishing stuff - some people will never be satisfied.
>>
>>> Like it or not, Honda is in the business of selling you a car. The
>>> more often you buy one, the more profit they make.
>>
>>> There's tons of oil analysis data available online at bobistheoilguy.
>>
>> really? �why don't you appear to have read any of it?
>>
> enough to know that a wide range of environmental and operating
> variables leads to a wide range of engine oil lifespans.
what "wide range of environmental and operating variables" would these
be then? what are the two conditions that cause the highest rates of
engine wear? what [if anything] do /you/ do to mitigate them?
>
> for the average driver, who NEVER checks their oil level between oil
> changes,
you can only truthfully speak for yourself there dude - how often do you
check /your/ oil?
> Toyota's 5000 mile interval is probably a safer long-term bet
> than Honda's minder.
with 1950's spec motor oil! but if oil is so crappy, why not 3000 miles
- isn't that safer still? what about 1000?
> in a Honda, a driver could go a year between
> service whereas Toyota's system is likely to bring them in every 6
> months.
if we're stuck in your time warp with you, shouldn't we still using
castor oil to lubricate our engines? putting this another way, have you
ever known modern engine oil formulations to actually physically degrade
in 12 months vs 6 months? or are we going to read the owner's manual
and read what the heavily researched and invested manufacturer says on
this subject?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
ACAR
> or are we going to read the owner's manual
> and read what the heavily researched and invested manufacturer says on
> this subject?
>
Unless you think Toyota doesn't qualify as a "heavily researched and
invested manufacturer" your argument is nonsense.
And if you think a manufacturer's suggested oil change/service
frequency isn't influenced by consumer-organization "total cost of
ownership" calculations, you're naive.
But if you want to suggest to owners that they maintain their cars
according to idiot lights, you go right ahead.
jim beam
> On Aug 5, 10:53�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On 08/04/2010 05:37 PM, ACAR wrote:
>>
> snip
>
>> �or are we going to read the owner's manual
>> and read what the heavily researched and invested manufacturer says on
>> this subject?
>>
>
> Unless you think Toyota doesn't qualify as a "heavily researched and
> invested manufacturer" your argument is nonsense.
> And if you think a manufacturer's suggested oil change/service
> frequency isn't influenced by consumer-organization "total cost of
> ownership" calculations, you're naive.
why does lexus charge $250 for the same oil change [and same filter!] as
a $70 toyota oil change? could it /possibly/ be anything to do with
revenue generation??? [rhetorical]
well, that's where toyota get their oil change intervals from - it's all
about the $$$'s, nothing to do with actual numbers on oil condition.
>
> But if you want to suggest to owners that they maintain their cars
> according to idiot lights, you go right ahead.
you've clearly never bothered with oil analysis - if you had, you'd know
that honda's oil change algorithm is actually pretty conservative.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Seth
"ACAR" <dimndson...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5776d9d-4d95-48d1...@i24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Working out fine for me so far. '01 V6 Accord with 257,xxx miles. I use
Carquest brand 5W-30, whatever filter is on sale and don't change the oil
till the "idiot light" tells me to. Only 2 "unscheduled" repairs thus far.
1 wheel bearing and 1 EGR valve (for which there was a TSB on).