Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve
Tegger
> like this Saturn rental:
>
> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engin
> e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>
Let's fix that link up a bit...
<http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
My own site has a few interesting pics:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
and
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
jim beam
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-9B04BE....@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>
>> like this Saturn rental:
>>
>> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engin
>> e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>>
>
>
>
> Let's fix that link up a bit...
> <http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
>
>
> My own site has a few interesting pics:
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
> and
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
>
>
the funny thing is though, neither of those two engines show signs of
extraordinary wear. sludge, yes. [typical of short trip stuff where
the motor doesn't warm up properly.] should they have changed their
oil, yes. but those cams are not distressed so no mechanical harm done.
Tegger
news:JqqdnSr5u9qEzWHU...@speakeasy.net:
> Tegger wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
>> news:elmop-9B04BE....@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>>
>>> like this Saturn rental:
>>>
>>> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-e
>>> ngin e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's fix that link up a bit...
>> <http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-e
>> ngine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
>>
>>
>> My own site has a few interesting pics:
>> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
>> and
>> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
>>
>>
>
> the funny thing is though, neither of those two engines show signs of
> extraordinary wear. sludge, yes. [typical of short trip stuff where
> the motor doesn't warm up properly.] should they have changed their
> oil, yes. but those cams are not distressed so no mechanical harm
> done.
>
I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What ultimately
kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.
Grumpy AuContraire
At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.
OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a failure
on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K between
oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had 160K on it
and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin' this 'n that
before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed the ugly truth.
Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
5K with dino oils.
JT
Tegger
news:Au8Ll.22704$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>>
>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.
>
>
> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.
People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously ignore
any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on their
own.
>
> OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a
> failure on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K
> between oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had
> 160K on it and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin'
> this 'n that before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed
> the ugly truth.
>
> Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
> in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
>
> Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
> 5K with dino oils.
>
I'm 3K or less, with synthetic. Yeah, I know. It's "recreational" oil
changing. It makes me feel better.
jim beam
> Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
> news:Au8Ll.22704$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>>
>> Tegger wrote:
>
>>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
>>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.
>>
>> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
>> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.
>
>
>
> People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
> attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously ignore
> any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on their
> own.
i let my oil go long, but i pay studious attention to how well the
engine's running.
>
>
>
>> OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a
>> failure on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K
>> between oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had
>> 160K on it and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin'
>> this 'n that before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed
>> the ugly truth.
>>
>> Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
>> in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
>>
>> Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
>> 5K with dino oils.
>>
>
>
> I'm 3K or less, with synthetic. Yeah, I know. It's "recreational" oil
> changing. It makes me feel better.
dude, with respect, that's crazy. a quality synthetic is formulated to
let you run long. the conditions to be met include:
1. base oil doesn't break down
2. additives don't break down
3. other additives cope with the chemistry
conventional oil bases do break down, their additives break down, and
because of the first two, they also have a correspondingly lowered
ability to cope with chemical load like acids. given that #'s 1 & 2 are
easy for synthetics to achieve, #3 is the one to look for, and it's
/loaded/ so it can go way beyond your 3k.
discoloration of the oil doesn't mean a damned thing since the filter
ensures particles are below the wear threshold. my buddy who works for
exxon-mobil has a chevy tahoe. the fall-back factory service interval
on that is 3k. using the analysis resources he has available, he has
the service interval pushed out to 25k. again, that's a 25,000 mile oil
change interval based on analysis.
conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
L Alpert
"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9C005663...@208.90.168.18...
> Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
> news:Au8Ll.22704$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>>
>>
>> Tegger wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil
>>> pickup
>>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.
>>
>>
>> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low
>> oil
>> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.
>
>
>
> People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
> attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously
> ignore
> any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on
> their
> own.
>
>
When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much oil,
it was in a state of perpetual change.....
Tegger
> In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDU...@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
>
> well, he DID say it was recreational.
>
> I think fishing is crazy,
>
So is skydiving.
Tegger
@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
> "Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C005663...@208.90.168.18...
>>
>>
>>
>> People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
>> attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously
>> ignore
>> any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on
>> their
>> own.
>>
>>
>
> When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much oil,
> it was in a state of perpetual change.....
My old '76 Coronet burned a quart between gas fillups. I don't think I ever
"changed the oil" in the traditional way the whole time I had the car.
L Alpert
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-05AAF1....@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <syhLl.17728$D32....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much
>> oil,
>> it was in a state of perpetual change.....
>
> hard
> right turn, it was time to add more.
Reminds me of another old bomb I had, an old '60 Valiant. Make a
hard right turn, and if you smelled gas, you had some left (never
could put in more then 5 or 6 gallons at a time)! Not sure what was
worse with that one, the hole in the tank, or the brakes that needed
to be pumped a dozen times before I could slow down......
Dillon Pyron
Or a plugged passage. All it takes is one to make a mess out of a
bearing, which ...
--
- dillon I am not invalid
The RMS Titanic sank on April 15th. US income taxes
are due on April 15th. Coincidence? I think not.
Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDU...@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
>
>
> well, he DID say it was recreational.
>
> I think fishing is crazy, but...
Ahhhh, but fishing usually is therapy... For henpecked husbands!
Uddah din dat, I kompleatley agree.
<G>
JT
Grumpy AuContraire
Tegger wrote:
Worse car for oil consumption for me was a $50 Torino that achieved a
whoppin' 50 miles per quart. Then came a '76 Civic that average between
1-2K per quart. Of course, that car cost me $500!
JT
Tegger
>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxgmail.com> wrote in news:syhLl.17728$D32.10787
>> @flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com:
>>>
>>>When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much
>>>oil, it was in a state of perpetual change.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My old '76 Coronet burned a quart between gas fillups. I don't think
>> I ever "changed the oil" in the traditional way the whole time I had
>> the car.
>
>
> Worse car for oil consumption for me was a $50 Torino that achieved a
> whoppin' 50 miles per quart. Then came a '76 Civic that average
> between 1-2K per quart. Of course, that car cost me $500!
>
Well, you get what you pay for, as the saying goes...
L Alpert
"Grumpy AuContraire" <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
news:bhtLl.193104$4m1....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
The old Rambler I had I got for $75. It was a combination of puke
green and primer.
> JT
Grumpy AuContraire
...and the saga continues; One day I decided to manipulate the vacuum
lines and confident that I had improved things set off for work. On the
way, I noticed a nice plume of smoke in the rear view mirror.
Later that night, I fired it up for the return trip home and I had gone
no farther than a half mile or so when the oil light came on. I managed
to drive that turd all the way home with no apparant ill effect(s).
The next day, dipstick showed nothing/nada/zilch. Put some pit oil (from
changes in my Studebakers) in and brought it up to level and got another
month out of it when I sent it up to the local wrecking yard.
I only wish that I had tapped into my ample supply of pit oil much
earlier...
JT
Grumpy AuContraire
L Alpert wrote:
I replaced the turdbox Torino with a $300 Gremlin which actually wasn't
a bad car. Had the 258 six cylinder with two barrel and it went down
the road nicely. Rest was the main issue with that car..
JT
Dillon Pyron
>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>24A819.113...@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>
>> In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDU...@speakeasy.net>,
>> jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
>>
>> well, he DID say it was recreational.
>>
>> I think fishing is crazy,
>>
>
>
>
>So is skydiving.
Sky diving and scuba diving have something very important in common.
When you suddenly run out of air, the fun stops.
Grumpy AuContraire
Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake Tegger <inv...@invalid.inv> :
>
>
>>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>>24A819.113...@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>>
>>
>>>In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDU...@speakeasy.net>,
>>> jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
>>>
>>>well, he DID say it was recreational.
>>>
>>>I think fishing is crazy,
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>So is skydiving.
>
>
> Sky diving and scuba diving have something very important in common.
>
> When you suddenly run out of air, the fun stops.
Yeah, but a well trained SCUBA diver has options...
JT
L Alpert
"Grumpy AuContraire" <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
A regular Wayne's World, eh....at least the Gremlin was ugly enough to
be cooler than the AMC Hornet.
My brother has a cache of older cars. Last I recall, he has a '60
Rambler (flat head 6) American, 65 Marlin, 73 Ambassador (327 ragtop)
an American Eagle 4 wheel drive wagon of early 70's vintage and 2
Subaru 360cc 2 cycle mini's from I believe a late 60's or early 70's
vintage. All of them are well kept......
Tegger
@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
> news:q_OLl.26280$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I replaced the turdbox Torino with a $300 Gremlin which actually
>> wasn't a bad car. Had the 258 six cylinder with two barrel and it
>> went down the road nicely. Rest was the main issue with that car..
>>
>> JT
>>
>
> A regular Wayne's World, eh....
Wayne's World had the Pacer, not the Gremlin, no?
> at least the Gremlin was ugly enough to
> be cooler than the AMC Hornet.
The Hornet might have been your dad's car, but the back seat was actually
usable, and it was better looking than the Gremlin. IMHO, of course.
L Alpert
"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxgmail.com> wrote in news:OC8Ml.21786$as4.7845
> @nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>>
>> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>> news:q_OLl.26280$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>
>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I replaced the turdbox Torino with a $300 Gremlin which actually
>>> wasn't a bad car. Had the 258 six cylinder with two barrel and it
>>> went down the road nicely. Rest was the main issue with that car..
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>
>> A regular Wayne's World, eh....
>
>
>
> Wayne's World had the Pacer, not the Gremlin, no?
>
You may be right on that.
>
>
>> at least the Gremlin was ugly enough to
>> be cooler than the AMC Hornet.
>
>
>
> The Hornet might have been your dad's car, but the back seat was
> actually
> usable, and it was better looking than the Gremlin. IMHO, of course.
My favorite was the old Ramblers. The front seats folded down to the
back to make one big, flat cushion.
Hachiroku ハチロク
> like this Saturn rental:
>
> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engin
> e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles\
Get back to the Toyota group where you belong!
Dillon Pyron
True. But if you run out of air at 100 ft, you're not very well
trained. I (all caps) can make a CSA from 100 ft, but I also have a
12 ft pony with 32%.
Can we agree that BASE jumpers are, in fact, a little beyond insane?
Any group that has "the ground's the limit" is not even not all there.
Dillon Pyron
>
>"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>news:Xns9C0344CB...@208.90.168.18...
>> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxgmail.com> wrote in news:OC8Ml.21786$as4.7845
>> @nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>
>>>
>>> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
>>> news:q_OLl.26280$941....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the turdbox Torino with a $300 Gremlin which actually
>>>> wasn't a bad car. Had the 258 six cylinder with two barrel and it
>>>> went down the road nicely. Rest was the main issue with that car..
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>
>>> A regular Wayne's World, eh....
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne's World had the Pacer, not the Gremlin, no?
>>
>
>You may be right on that.
The Pacer was the bubble top. Whoever designed it had never been in
the sun for more than 2 hours at a time.
The Gremlin had the precursor to the many boxes we now see. Nice
sloped back. Gary Gablelich had a nice funny built from one. Four
wheel drive, IIRC.
>
>>
>>
>>> at least the Gremlin was ugly enough to
>>> be cooler than the AMC Hornet.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Hornet might have been your dad's car, but the back seat was
>> actually
>> usable, and it was better looking than the Gremlin. IMHO, of course.
>
>My favorite was the old Ramblers. The front seats folded down to the
>back to make one big, flat cushion.
Neighbor has not one, but two Avantis. One is actually an "almost"
everyday driver (no rain, no fog, no ice, no "the other sucker is not
in control and doesn't have enough insurance" type days).
THAT was a car before its time.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>
Grumpy AuContraire
Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> :
>
>
>>
>>Dillon Pyron wrote:
>>
>>>Thus spake Tegger <inv...@invalid.inv> :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>>>>24A819.113...@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDU...@speakeasy.net>,
>>>>>jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.
>>>>>
>>>>>well, he DID say it was recreational.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think fishing is crazy,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So is skydiving.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sky diving and scuba diving have something very important in common.
>>>
>>>When you suddenly run out of air, the fun stops.
>>
>>
>>Yeah, but a well trained SCUBA diver has options...
>>
>>JT
>
>
> True. But if you run out of air at 100 ft, you're not very well
> trained. I (all caps) can make a CSA from 100 ft, but I also have a
> 12 ft pony with 32%.
If one observes the "buddy" rule, there is option #1 that has no substitute.
If one is at 100 feet, he has twenty-five minutes of allowable "bottom
time." During my heyday when 72 cubic foot steel tanks were the
standard, air supply was for well more than that time. In fact, using
duals was a good option but they're a bitch to cart around. Then there
was the alluminum 90 cubic footers for "professional" use. Oh, for those
that don't understand the basic SCUBA rules, "bottom" time includes the
time used for descent..
OTOH, my favorite activity was ship diving where most of the decks were
at the 100 ft level and it was real easy to explore a hold which brought
the allowble bottom time to much shorter lengths. Stay at 120 ft for the
same 25 minutes, be prepared to hang at 20 and 10 ft for a spell for
decompression.
> Can we agree that BASE jumpers are, in fact, a little beyond insane?
> Any group that has "the ground's the limit" is not even not all there.
Anyone who jumps out of perfectly good airplanes, off of cliffs, bridges
etc is nutz. Once you jump you are at the mercy of luck, physics et al.
Of course, here in Austin, not too many are sound thinkers...
JT
Dillon Pyron
Who do you dive with. With school now pretty much out until June, I'm
going to try to get with Pisces dive club Wednesday nights and try to
hit somewhere on Sundays. But the 20 mile walk to the water is a
bitch.
>
>JT
Grumpy AuContraire
Dillon Pyron wrote:
Oh, my diving days are probably over... Way too old now.
I was a prolific diver in the mid 1960's through the 1980's and
ninety-nine percent on my diving took place in the tropical Pacific,
Indian and some off the New England coast. I'm spoilt I tell ya!
Nothing like 100 ft plus visibility in lagoon environments. I have no
desire whatsoever to even snorkel in the gulf or lakes.
My favorite ship... Fujikawa Maru in the Truk lagoon. After that, any
of the wrecks at Kwajalein or Bikini.
JT
(Who still has three portholes recovered from the "Ship of the Morning
Wind" - Kwajalein)