rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 1/4
Dave
Posting-Frequency: 15
Last-modified: 1995/6/7
Version: 2.5
NEW STUFF:
Center for Auto Safety's Chrysler info
Diagnosing/tuning computer-controlled
carburetor systems
More troubleshooting info
Added/changed resources, problem resolution notes
Before You Post section added to Part 1
More good dealers
FAQ For Rec.Autos.Makers.Chrysler
This FAQ is being maintained and expanded by David Zatz
(val...@mordor.com)
CONTENTS
Part 1 -
Disclaimer
Related Resources (groups, www, recall/TSB info)
How to resolve problems with Chrysler Corp.
Praised and criticized dealers
The Newsgroup: charter, notes, rationale
INDEX! to parts 2, 3, and 4
Part 2
Frequently Asked Chrysler/Mopar Questions
New Car Specs - always growing, these days!
Discussions: Oil filters, Consumer Reports
Part 3
Computer codes
List of engines
List of body types
Acronyms
Center for Auto Safety's Chrysler info
Diagnosing/tuning computer-controlled
carburetor systems
Coming soon: classic car troubleshooting
Part 4
Troubleshooting, all models, all years - always growing
Related FAQs:
Neon - maintained by the Neon mailing list.
************************************************************************
DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for
damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein. The
information below may be reproduced in any way PROVIDED that credit is
given to the writers and the maintainer; and that it is not published in
book or magazine form without the prior written permission of the
maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without needing to ask, a FREE
copy of the final material; and that no changes are made (except for
formatting) without the express permission of the maintainer
(val...@mordor.com = David Zatz).
************************************************************************
The last posted copy may be obtained by the
following commands, if you can ftp:
ftp rtfm.mit.edu
Name: anonymous
Password: [your e-mail address]
cd pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general
get part1 part2 part3 part4
cd ..
get neon [optional for Neon owners]
bye
Without ftp, you can send e-mail to mail-...@rtfm.mit.edu with the
following line in the body of the message:
send /pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general/part1
[or part2 etc]
************************************************************************
BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS
1. Check the FAQ, most answers are in parts 1, 2, and 4 (fault codes are
in part 3).
2. Please don't post messages like "this broke and I will speak to the
dealer about it sometime." Go to the dealer with all problems if you car
is under warranty, and then, after they fix it or make it worse, bring
it up to the group. In the meantime, read the FAQ and watch other
people's posts.
3. If you are having problems with Chrysler, and have not yet read the
next section, please do so.
4. If you are having problems with Chrysler and are angry and bitter at
them, that is fine, and an angry message or two is also fine. However,
please do not respond to every message by saying that all Chryslers are
crap. As the rec.autos FAQ notes, every company makes some lemons. And
every company deals badly with some people. Chrysler's record has
recently become quite good, in comparison to other auto companies!
Though there is a long way to go before they match, say, 3M's level of
service.
************************************************************************
HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.
* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take no for
an answer but do *not* act angry or threaten them. This will only make
matters worse. Chrysler's customer service is often very good but the
people seem to be very sensitive, for some reason. They also often
don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help. If all
else fails, thank the person, then immediately call back and speak to
someone else. Always take down their name for your reference!
* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, and recalls
(using the free Alldata "titles-only" service and posts in the
newsgroup) before you visit the dealer with a problem. Using the Alldata
service may lead you to have new, lower standards for fair treatment.
* Don't take "no" for an answer from a dealer. Immediately call Chrysler
at 800-992-1997 from a pay phone if you have to. They will call the
dealer. Often, work the dealer would charge hundreds of dollars for will
suddenly become free. Jobs the dealer wants to have your car for over a
period of days will suddenly be done within the hour. Loaner cars will
miraculously become available for free.
* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer.
* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.
* Look for five-star dealers, but remember that five stars is not an
assurance of high quality, and that great dealers may get less than five
stars. Statistical sampling is not a high art at Chrysler Corp.;
their survey form desparately needs work from people who actually
understand how to survey customers.
* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at your zone
office (in your owner's manual). Be polite but assertive. They will
probably send down a factory rep. Do not threaten them. If they still
don't fix the car, politely begin to negotiate.
* If that doesn't work, take the next step and contact Chrysler in
Highland Park (800-992-1997).
* If that fails, there are two steps you can take.
1. File an official lemon law complaint with your state. Do not assume
that your negotiations with Chrysler should suddenly come to an end or
become angry. This will get their attention, but chances are your
problem is not serious enough to merit a legally imposed solution.
2. Go through the Customer Arbitration Board.
* Most problems will end there. If not, look through your Yellow Pages
to find a lawyer *specializing* in lemon law problems. Most lawyers
don't know the first thing about this! A good specialist lawyer will
immediately know the people at the zone office and will first try to
talk nice to them to solve the problem.
* Realize that your chances of getting cash are EXTREMELY slim. You will
probably get a replacement Chrysler product. This is OK. You will not
get all of your money back, either as credit towards a new car or as
cash, no matter what you do. Chrysler's policy on lemons is to follow
the state law, though they will negotiate. Most states impose a penalty
on each mile of use before the first lemon-type complaint.
* Go through the latest TSBs again.
*Whenever your dealer lies to you or is too incompetent, send a letter
to Dealer Agreements or the Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI
48015.
* See the following list of dealers. Please contribute to the list by
writing to val...@mordor.com.
************************************************************************
- - - - - - - - - - - -
- Related Resources:
Web Pages
Chrysler Home Page!
http://www.mordor.com/valiant/index.html
* Contains MANY links, model info, etc. NOTE NEW URL.
* Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Eagle/Jeep coverage
* More local, CC-specific information added
* Not connected with or supported by Chrysler Corp.
The Valiant (/Dart/Duster/Demon) Page
http://www.mordor.com/valiant/valiant.html
soon to include Australian/New Zealand Valiant info
Steve Sheldon's Neon Page
http://www.iastate.edu/sheldon/neon.html
Technical service bulletin / recall lookup service:
Alldata (removed due to billing dispute)
http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/jeep.html (Jeep)
http://www.cts.com/~xxltony/1955-la-femme.html (LaFemme)
http://www.di.com/talon.html (Eagle Talon/2nd gen Laser)
http://nmt.edu/~iguana/www/MML.html (MML page)
http://www.cts.com/~xxltony/1961-imperial.html (Imperial)
http://www.channel1.com/users/collins/ (Dodge - sales/info)
http://www.shopping2000.com/shopping2000/neon/ (Neon)
http://www.icon.net/commercial/dodge/
Mailing Lists
To subscribe to the Neon mailing list, send 'subscribe'
in the body of a message to neon-r...@iastate.edu
The Mopar Mailing List is still very active and alive!
Serves mostly older Mopars and turbos
(performance oriented) - Mo...@chennov1.tamu.edu
To subscribe to the Jeep mailing list, send 'subscribe Jeep-l'
in the body of a message to list...@knuth.mtsu.edu
To subscribe to the AMC mailing list, send 'subscribe'
in the subject of a message to amcre...@scan.si.edu
To subscribe to the Cummins Diesel Engines mailing list,
send requests to cummins...@hposl03.cup.hp.com
Phone Numbers
1-800-992-1997 Chrysler Customer Service
1-800-NEW-NEON information about Neon
1-800-4ADODGE information about Dodge
1-800-PLYMOUTH information about Plymouth; Neon CD-ROM
1-800-677-5782 your local 5-Star Dealer
1-800-626-1523 free catalog of CC information
1-800-998-1110 Neon Racing Headquarters
1-800-255-9877 Automobility Headquarters (reimbursements
for adaptation of new vehicles for people w/disabilities)
1-800-253-0823 order a catalog of replicas of Chrysler vehicles
Other Resources
Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide
by Consumer Advocate Phil Edmonston
Slant 6 Club of America: Jack Poehler, Box 4414, Salem, OR
97302. Dues: $22/year. Includes quarterly? journal.
Used parts service (not tried by us):
e-mail carp...@teleport.com;
Chrysler Corp: suggestions and complaints to --
Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI 48015
Chrysler Canada Customer Service is at:
Chrysler Center, P.O. Box 1621
Windsor, Ontario N9A 4H6
1 (800) 465-2001 - may not work in the US
Lambros Racing is at 314-725-7181
Forward Motion is at
Kokoma, Indiana, is the home of Chrysler's transmissions! And the strike
is over!
Please do NOT contact me directly via e-mail with car-related questions.
Sending them to the newsgroup is a much better idea. I have a limited
personal knowledge, the newsgroup does not. Thank you.
************************************************************************
DEALERS: PRAISE & COMPLAINTS
DISCLAIMER: This list is assembled from newsgroup reader's experience.
Those who wrote in their experiences and those who assembled them,
in particular the maintainer of the FAQ, are not responsible for the
applicability of these experiences to others. It is possible for someone
to have a bad impression of a good dealer and vice versa. The FAQ
maintainer takes NO responsibility for the accuracy of information in
this list. The FAQ maintainer does not harbor grudges against the
following dealers, and has not visited most of them. The categories of
"good" and "bad" are not absolutes and reflect only the opinions of
those people who have contributed to this list. Some of these dealers
may have great sales and terrible service departments, etc.
THIS SECTION WILL SHORTLY BE REMOVED because the nature of FAQs is that
they hang around too long. It will still be available on the www site.
Thanks are given to those who have contributed to this list, whose names
will be anonymous for space reasons. Full text will be in the
valiant.html www site.
IMPORTANT: Names beginning with Chrysler/Plymouth of Footown or Dodge of
Footown have been renamed to Footown C/P or Footown Dodge.
COMPLIMENTS RECEIVED ABOUT:
* = new
Arbor Dodge, Ann Arbor, MI
* Barbera-Gary Dodgeland, Philadelphia, PA
Benson Motors in Ames, IA
Bill Pierre Dodge, Seattle, Washington (Lake City).
Blaine (MN): Sales good, service not.
Brickner's in Wausau, WI
Bud Mulchahy's Jeep Eagle (DesMoines, IA):
Buhler & Bitter in Hazlet, NJ
Century C-P in San Jose, CA
* Daniels & Fry, McKinney, TX
Desert C/P, Las Vegas, NV)
Dick Milham C-P in Bethleham PA.
Dough Gryffith C-P, Baltimore, MD
* Ferrero C-P-D-J-E, Loveland, CO
Glenleven Motors, Oakville, ON
Harold C-P-J-E in Olympia Fields, IL
Hayes, Lawrenceville, Atlanta
Hendrick Dodge in Cary NC
Kyger CP
LaFontaine Brothers, Ann Arbor, MI
Longhorn Dodge, Ft Worth
Marshall Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge, Salina, Kansas
Paramus C/P, Paramus, NJ
Seminara Motors, Watertown MA
Smyly Dodge Malden MA (Sales good, service not)
South Shore Chrysler Plymouth, Braintree, MA
Thompson Chrysler Plymouth, Radford, Va.
Trostle Dodge Jeep/Eagle in Butler, PA
COMPLAINTS RECEIVED ABOUT:
Armand Moceri`s Puyallup Chrysler-Plymouth, Puyallup, Washington
Autoland of Springfield, NJ
Baum Blvd. Dodge in Pittsburgh PA (service dept)
Blaine - service dept (Minnesota)
Boardwalk Auto Center in Redwood Shores, CA
Bob Banning Dodge in New Carrollton, MD (1 salesman)
Bridge C/P in Hempstead,N.Y
Centennial CP
Cherry Creek Dodge
Chesrown's Southwest Dodge in Littleton, CO
Chrysler Plymouth West, in Catonsville (Baltimore), MD
Clayton Motors, East Hartford, CT
Colorado CP and JE
Dedham West Roxbury C-P, Dedham, MA
Fitzgerald Auto Mall in Frederick, Maryland
Foothills CP
Glendora Dodge, Glendora CA
Grogan, Toledo OH
Hyde Park Motors (C-P), NY
Jeep Eagle of Schamburg (Schamburg IL):
Johnson Dodge, NJ
Kearny Mesa Dodge in San Diego
Larchmont Chry/Ply in Larchmont NY.
Las Vegas Chrysler Plymouth (Las Vegas, NV)
Len Stoler Chrysler Dealer (Reistertown, MD)
Mancari CPJE in Oak Lawn, IL
Miller Dodge-Mazda on Rte. 120 in Lebanon, NH
Monroe Dodge C-P, Monroe MI
Point-One C-P J/E, Evanston, Illinois 60202
Roxbury Chrysler Plymouth
Shelor Chevrolet Geo Toyota C-P-D VW Subaru, Christiansburg, Va
Smyly Dodge Malden MA (service)
***********************************************************
WARNING. Some people have been "caught" spreading disinformation about
their "experiences" with Chrysler or Chrysler products. Take everything
you read on the Net with a grain of salt, because you only have
someone's (usually anonymous) word for it! (AOL users may be a
particular problem simply because it's so easy to create handles on AOL,
which then become a person's Internet address; it lowers
accountability). While Chrysler has screwed up now and then, sometimes
treated customers very badly, and sometimes made a lemon -- as every
auto company has -- sometimes, reports of horror are simply not true.
Many people have a grudge against Chrysler for one reason or another,
and some may be using the Internet to discredit one company so a
competitor may benefit. In short -- beware false stories of horror, but
be aware they might be real! (And vice versa).
This includes some "information" about "secret recalls," paint, etc.
Often, these people may be recognized by the quantity of their messages
on the same subject. Some people produce prodigious amounts of
misinformation, or even correct information which is not applicable.
(For example, a certain AOL member who posted about five to ten messages
a day lambasting the regrettable 1989-91 4-speed automatic
transmission).
This is true for any newsgroup -- what you read on your screen is not
necessarily true. Nor is what you read in the newspaper, but that's
another story.
***********************************************************
- The Newsgroup Rec.Autos.Makers.Chrysler -- CHARTER
COVERAGE. Rec.autos.makers.chrysler was set up to cover issues related
to cars and trucks made by Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler, Fargo, DeSoto,
Jeep, Eagle, and all other makes sold or marketed by Chrysler Corp.
BEHAVIOR. Political comments and commercial advertising will be
discouraged. However, *short* product announcements, preferably
restricted to the name, availability, and a very brief description of
the product's function (where applicable) are acceptable.
Discussion of whether Chrysler products are of good or bad quality,
lengthy comparisons to Hondas or other cars, and similar arguments and
flamewars with no foreseeable conclusion are heavily discouraged.
Participants are asked to be kind, considerate, and supportive, and to
generally keep an open, warm atmosphere so that the function of this
newsgroup may be maintained.
RATIONALE. This group is proposed to help Chrysler (CC) vehicle owners
to support each other, save money, and maximize their enjoyment of their
autos.
As in rec.autos.vw, Chrysler owners need a forum where they feel
unreservedly welcomed, and where they can obtain esoteric information
from involved people with similar experiences and vehicles.
This newsgroup should be general enough for those who know little about
cars to get a broad range of information and advise from, while allowing
those more into the products to exchange their views and advice.
In a world dominated by GM, Ford, and VW (Europe) products, Chrysler
owners often find auto discussions difficult. Most aftermarket parts and
advice are for GM and Ford owners; knowledge about Chrysler is hard to
find. The popular press don't cover CC as well as they could -- and CC's
dissemination of information to the press and the public is fairly poor.
Chrysler products have quirks which most mechanics don't seem to be
aware of, leading them to replace transmissions when the fault is in a
20 cent vacuum hose, or to replace the engine computer instead of
plugging in a hose or changing a sensor. Chryslers are often seen as
"ordinary American cars" (unlike makes which many mechanics will admit
they are not familiar with) -- but what will work on a GM or Ford will
often not work on a Dodge. There is a vast ocean of experience in
Chrysler products out on the Internet which may help owners to save
time, money, and trouble. (Mechanics may also take advantage of others'
experience).
CC vehicles are common enough, yet idiosyncratic enough, to deserve
their own place in the Net hierarchy -- just as Volkswagens are. In
addition, it is important for CC vehicle owners to have a place to
discuss the problems and benefits of ownership, to exchange detailed
information and personal experiences, in a supportive and positive
atmosphere. In short, I hope to develop a group as vibrant and helpful
as the Mopar mailing list or the rec.autos.VW group have been, while
making this group accessible to all Dodge, Plymouth, Jeep, Eagle, and
Chrysler owners, even those who don't know what a Mopar is.
s
Dave
DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for
damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein.
The information below may be reproduced in any way PROVIDED that
credit is given to the writers and the maintainer;and that it is not
published in book or magazine form without the prior written
permission of the maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without
needing to ask, a FREE copy of the final material;and that no changes
are made (except for formatting) without the express permission of
the maintainer (val...@mordor.com =David Zatz).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Please note that, if you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained from
ftp rtfm.mit.edu
cd pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general
get part1 part2 part3 part4
- - - - - - - - - - - -
PART II - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ** AND NEW CAR INFO
Thanks to Gene Fusco for writing the Mopar Mailing List's FAQ, which
this is based on, and to Jarvis Smallfield of the MML for forwarding it
to us! Thanks also to Lloyd R. Parker and Wayne Toy for their
additions and help in the engines and oil sections.
*************************CONTENTS*****************************
1. What CC means
2. Is this good for my engine?
3. Do I have a Chrysler or Mitsubishi engine?
4. What is Chrysler's US customer service number? (toll-free)
1-800-992-1997
5. What is Chrysler's e-mail address? They don't have one yet!
6. What is Chrysler's Five-Star Dealers number? 1-800-677-5782.
7. How do I get a free catalog of service bulletins? 1-800-626-1523.
8. What should my tire pressure be? (FWD only)
9. What does SOHC, SMPI, etc mean? What do I have?
10. What kind of oil filter should I use?
11. What kind of oil should I use in my 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine?
12. What kind of engine do I have?
13. What is a Mopar? Do I have one?
14. Which are the Diamond Star models?
15. What is a K-car?
16. How do I find the fault codes stored in my engine computer?
17. What is an x body? (Where x=A,B,C,E,F....)
18. Doesn't Chrysler ever sell engines to Mitsubishi?
19. How can I increase the power of my engine?
20. How can I get automatic door locks?
21. What is returnless fuel injection?
22. What's the deal with Chrysler still using Mitsubishi engines?
23. When should I change my automatic trans fluid?
24. How can I get lighted knobs on my (early) Neon?
25. What's the deal with Chrysler Canada?
26. What kind of gas should I use?
27. How reliable are Consumer Reports' ratings?
28. How can I get help for problems CC won't acknowledge or fix?
29. What's the deal with Chrysler Europe, Talbot, Simca, etc?
30. Why are so many Chrysler dealers so awful?
31. Are minivans unsafe? What about the latches?
32. What about lemons?
33. Paint problems
34. Are K&N filters worth it/dangerous?
86. All other questions.
--------
NEW CAR INFO
1. New V6 Engines (2.7/3.2)
2. Next Generation LH / LHS
--------
DISCUSSIONS
Oil Filters
Consumer Reports
Getting in touch with Chrysler Corporation
* For troubleshooting, including the 2.2/2.5 engines, see Part 4.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. What does CC mean? Chrysler Corporation.
2. Is X good for my engine? (includes Slick50)
This is a topic that elicits debate on the scale of many religious
wars. 50% of the people asked will say yes, and the rest will say no.
BUT -- The Toyota FAQ sez: (Todd Haverstock) "Independent
laboratories as well as engine manufacturer Briggs and Stratton have
rendered a verdict that Slick 50 and similar oil treatments are
useless. The PTFE particles in Slick 50 have been said to clog the
tiny oil galleries in your engine. Products from other companies
marketing similar treatments can possibly damage your engine."
3. Do I have a Chrysler (CC) or Mitsubishi (MMC) engine?
(See Part 3 for details).
FOUR CYLINDERS: The 2.2 and 2.5 are CC; two 2.5s were made, one
for Jeeps, one for other cars; they are completely different. Only
MMC engines were used in joint ventures such as the Talon and Stealth
(until the 2.0 Neon engine was put into the Eclipse/Talon in 1995).
Most new CC cars use CC engines, the exception being the 2.5 V-6 and
3.0 MMC V-6. The 2.0 Neon is based on the 2.2. Other MMC engines are
the 1.5 and 1.6 (e.g. Colt, Summit). One MMC engine used in many
1980s CC cars was the 2.6 (*not* 2.5).
The manual trans. L-bodies used a 1.7 SOHC IL-4 by VW at first and
then switched to a 1.6 by Peugeot. They later used the 2.2. The
Premier/ Monaco used a Renault 3.0 V-6 (the Premier also used the
Jeep 2.5).
SIX CYLINDERS: the 3.0 (except Premier/Monaco Renault V6) and 2.5 V6
are from MMC, the 3.3, 3.5, 3.8, and 3.9 are CC. The 3.9 is derived
from the 318 V-8 (5.2 liter) of old. Many Jeeps also use the
straight-
six(4.0 liter) developed by Jeep. The "slant-six" (170, 198, and 225
cid) are authentic Chrysler engines - and legendary ones at that.
OTHERS: V-8s & V-10 are all Chrysler. 5.2=318, 5.9=360.
4. What is Chrysler's toll-free customer service number?
** 800-992-1997** Expect about 10-15 minutes of holding.
5. What is Chrysler's e-mail address? They don't have one.
6. What is Chrysler Five-Star Dealers number? 1-800-677-5782.
7. How do I get a free catalog of service guides? 1-800-626-1523
8. What should my tire pressure be? (FWD)
For front wheel drive, try maximum pressure in the front (for
handling) with recommended pressure in the rear (for ride and to even
out wear). This gave me great results with my Shadow (35 / 32).
Experiment. (Some take much higher tire pressures; Neon Sport, for
example).
9. What does SOHC, SMPI, etc mean? What do I have?
DIS means distributorless ignition system. A new system, this
eliminates the distributor like electronic ignition did without the
points. The savings are in maintenance (no distributor, no
distributor cap, no rotor), engine size (smaller without a
distributor) and weight, and in power (a better and more consistent
spark). It is standard on all new CC engines.
SOHC and DOHC refer to the number of camshafts - Single or
DualOverHead Cam means that the camshaft(s) are over the cylinders
rather than underneath them. In 4-cylinder engines one camshaft is
reputed to be more reliable, two more powerful.
EFI means electronic fuel injection, and can apply to any of the
following systems.
TBI is throttle body injection; a single fuel injector (sometimes
two) sprays fuel into the air as it heads out to the cylinders. It is
more efficient than a carburetor; it rarely needs adjustment, is
better at metering fuel, may be controlled more easily, and does a
better job of mixing fuel and air.
MPI is multiple-point injection; it sprays the fuel directly into
each cylinder, using one injector per cylinder. The fuel doesn't have
a chance to fall out of suspension and may be measured more
precisely. MPI systems are usually much smoother than TBI systems and
have less hesitation.
SMPI is sequential multiple-point injection; SMPI systems only fire a
fuel injector when the fuel can go straight into the cylinder.
10. What kind of oil filter should I use?
Recent discussions in rec.autos.tech dispute various types of oil
filter.
Some said Fram was still best, others said they were cost-cutting by
using cheaper materials.
See the oil filter discussion at the bottom of this file.
11. What kind of oil should I use in my 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine?
On February 7, 1995, I checked with Chrysler engineers and they
said5W30 was best for winter months in the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.5 liter
non-turbo engines (I did no task about turbos). They also said to use
5W30 year- round in climates such as that of New Jersey, Michigan,
etc. This leads me to believe that, unless you live south of the
Mason-Dixon line or in places where it gets really hot, you should
use 5W30 oil, regardless of what your dealer says. (Dealers often get
10W30 in bulk, making it cheaper for them. You may want to use 5 in
winter, 10 in summer).
Energy Conserving II is better - more slippery. SG grade is good
unless you can find SH grade (the letters go up as the oil gets
better). If you choose a synthetic, change it as frequently, because
pollutants still build up.
A word on oil changes: for my car, unless I drive it mostly in dusty
conditions, or severe stop and go traffic, oil changes are
recommended at 6 months or 7,500 miles. I intend to do oil changes at
5 months or6,000 miles to be sure, unless I really do start going
under severe conditions (3 months/3,000 mile recommended). Turbo
owners should change oil more frequently,...
** CHECK YOUR MANUAL **. Dealers often suggest things like changing
your antifreeze every three months (!) to get lots of easy money. If
you do decide to exceed Chrysler's recommendations, do as much of the
work yourself as you can (e.g. changing spark plugs). Most dealers
charge outrageous prices for simple service, and most seem to ask
customers to have their cars serviced far too often.
12. What kind of engine do I have ???
Raise the hood and check the emissions stickers. You can decode your
vehicle ID number (VIN) using most car manuals (you can do it in a
bookstore while browsing). An emissions sticker will tell you the
displacement of the engine.
13. What is a Mopar? Do I have one?
A Mopar is slang for a Chrysler-produced car. Some extend it to AMCs
and to MMC products (e.g. Colt) sold by CC; and some restrict it to
high performance cars only.
14. Which are the Diamond Star models?
The term is usually used for all MMC and CC "collaborations,"
including the Stealth/3000GT and the new Avenger/Sebring. The Colt
and RAM 50 were MMC vehicles sold by CC. Are they Mopars? Who knows?
15. What are the K-cars?
K-cars, strictly speaking, were the Reliant and Aries. However,
many people include the "extended K-cars" (Caravelle, 600, some
LeBarons, some New Yorkers, E-Class). Most of CC's products, for a
time, were based on the K-car platform, as a Lincoln and the
Mustang are based on the Ford Fairmont platform (except that the K
platform was good). Some believe that calling a related car a
"K-car" is a flame; others see it as a compliment. It depends on
whether you believe in bashing the K-cars, which are old now, or
praising them for their longevity (how many first-generation
Escorts are still around to be creaky?). - thanks for clarification
to Mike <mike...@canrem.com>
Herb "Mopar Maniac" DaSilva adds:
... CC used the same components on the Aries/Reliant in many of
its other platforms. These platforms... share similar distance
between the wheels on the same axle, and have the same suspension
design: McPherson struts in the front and a DeDion beam axle
variant in the rear. In fact, most K variants can swap struts and
they will fit (H-body is one exception). All the following vehicles
are K-derivatives: Laser(pre-1988)/Daytona (G-Body),
Shadow/Sundance (P-body), old LeBaron/old New Yorker (J-body),
LeBaron Coupe/Convertible (JA-body), LeBaron sedan(pre-1990)/Lancer
(H-body), Dynasty/New Yorker/Imperial (C-body), Acclaim/Spirit/new
LeBaron sedan (HA-body). Each derivative platform has a different
wheelbase and floor pan, and sheet metal will not exchange between
platforms.
The mini-van (T115 platform) is only loosely based on the K
platform, it has a leaf spring rear suspension, and the front
suspension is significantly beefier than the cars.
16. How do I find the fault codes stored in my engine computer?
See Part 3 of this FAQ.
17. What is an x body? (Where x=A,B,C,E,F....)
The term is usually used for all MMC and CC "collaborations,"
including the Stealth/3000GT and the new Avenger/Sebring. The Colt
and RAM 50 were MMC vehicles sold by CC. Are they Mopars? Who
knows?
18. Doesn't Chrysler ever sell engines to Mitsubishi?
Yes, in the base Eclipse.
19. How can I increase the power of my engine?
Lambros Racing has many interesting upgrades and mods. You can reach
Lambros Racing at 314-725-7181 or 314-725-5585 the address is 6603
Olive Rd, St Louis, Mo 63130-2645. They should send you a catalog if you
ask, and give you some recommendations on what to do. (Thanks, Tom
<t...@po.cwru.edu>).
== And don't forget Mopar Performance!
20. How can I get automatic power locks?
You can convert your power locks to automatic power locks (which lock at
25 mph) by turning the ignition key OFF-ON four times. I don't know if
this is reversible; I also don't know what model year this feature
started. (Lloyd R. Parker)
21. What is returnless fuel injection?
In most fuel injection systems, fuel is sent up to the engine, and
excess fuel is returned to the tank. In returnless fuel injection,
available on most new CC products (and few other vehicles), just
enough fuel is sent up to the engine, so nothing has to be sent back.
Safer because there's only one fuel line.
22. What's the deal with Chrysler still using Mitsubishi engines?
The 2.5 liter V6 is still used because Chrysler has no small V-6
engines. They are now working on a 2.7 and 3.2 liter V-6, which will
probably replace all current V6s. Chances are that Chrysler will
finally become Mitsubishi-free by 1999 (except for the MMCs: Stealth,
Summit/Colt, and Talon).
23. How often should I change my trans fluid?
Check your service manual. The severe service definition means that
the vehicle is operated primarily in one or more of those conditions.
Not once or occasionally. An automatic trans needs to have its oil
and filter changed when the oil gets discolored due to suspended
solids. Replacing clean oil with clean oil does nothing except cost
you money. My experience has been that ATF does not need to be
changed unless contaminated. The trans is a closed environment and is
not like the engine which produces contaminates as it runs. The trans
oil can get contaminated by overheating or by severe internal wear
due to abuse. Heavy towing is the primary cause of ATF contamination.
I have never changed the oil in any of my automatics and never have
had a failure. My 1979 Volare has 167,000 miles on the ATF and is
still working the same as when new. (Mostly from Robert Muir).
24. How can I get lighted knobs for my Neon climate controls?
> > MK02RS6 4.10 This is blower knob.. smaller of the 4 MK01RS6
> > 2.75 these are control (temp, vent etc) knobs. The RS6 on the end is
> > the color code.. RS6 is dark Quartz, RF8 is driftwood. I was told there
> > is a different blower knob for the NON A-C cars, but did not get the
> > part number.
Drop the ash tray open, grab the bezel (cover surrounding radio and
A/C controls) and pull. It is held in place by 4 spring clips that
snap in. With that off, pull off the knobs and push on the new..
Align the bezel and push it back on, close the ashtray. -- Dave
Cooley, cool...@nando.net
25. What's the deal with Chrysler Canada?
SL6 Dan provided lots of info: summary -- cars with the same US and
Canada name may not be the same, and cars with different names may be
the same. Practice went on since the 1940s. Weirder prior to 1965.
26. What kind of gas should I use?
Consumer Reports reports that the following gas brands passed BMW's
tests as of April 1991 in North America, in regular, midgrade, and
premium form: Amoco, Atlantic, Chevron, Conoco, Exxon, Fina, Gulf,
Hess, Marathon, Mobil, Phillips, Shell, Sunoco, and Texaco. Citgo,
Clark, Getty, and BP passed only in premium form (not midgrade,
either). Total, Ultramax, Beacon, and Unocol did not pass in any
grade. Arco passed with EC-1 premium only (sold in California).
27. How reliable are Consumer Reports' ratings?
Judge for yourself -- see the discussion at the end of this file.
28. How can I get help for problems CC won't acknowledge or fix?
Jim Hoare suggests the Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide (by Phil Edmonston).
Also keep trying the Chrysler Customer Center. Know the TSBs (see
Alldata service, Part I). Write to the Center for Auto Safety or
NHTSA.
29. What's the deal with Chrysler Europe, Simca, and Talbot?
Chrysler owned Simca and Rootes/Sunbeam up until the late 70s/early
80s.
They modified the Omni design for these European subsidiaries.
Chrysler sold Simca and Sunbeam to Peugeot, who kept the cars as they
were for a while, calling them the Talbot Horizon. They had
Simca/Sunbeam engines instead of the Peugeot/VW/Chrysler engines our
domestic Omni/Horizons got. The European cars were made in Europe.
(Lloyd R. Parker)
30. Why are so many Chrysler dealers so awful?
Perpetual contracts. Next question.
31. Are minivans unsafe? What about the latches?
Lloyd R. Parker fields this one (edited and reworded in parts):
: 32 persons have died as a result of "being thrown out the back" of a
: Dodge/Chrysler minivan. They talked to two parents who said their
childeren
: WERE fastened in their seats.
Then the seat wasn't fastened in the van. There is simply no way a seat
latched into place is going to come unlatched unless the rear collision
is so great, it deforms the body all the way to the seat.
: The back latch has a remote switch on the front dash to release the
: back door. The defect is unlike other minivans -
: there is not a two stage latch.
Uh, then why do [Ford] Aerostars have a HIGHER rate of ejections
through the hatch than Chryslers?
: This news report sent the new "improved" latch to a third party
: mechanical engineering firm in, I believe, North Carolina. They two
said
: the two stage latch is needed. By using the force of his hand the
engineer
: was able to dislodge the new latch. Seems that even fender benders
release the
: latch mechinism.
Plenty of people have posted here just the opposite. And a hundred or
so
latch openings out of 4.5 million vans? That's not going to happen if a
fender bender is enough to release the latch mechanism.
: There is a floating device on the latch that moves freely
: and if sent in the direction of a release - like pressing the remote
button
: but actually being forced by an accident, the latch will open.
Funny, the 95s have the new strengthened latch and seem to be doing OK.
Note: Chrysler is now replacing all the latches for free, and is
informing all minivan customers that they can come in and have the work
done. It's a pretty amazingly expensive operation for them, I suspect.
32. What about lemons?
To quote someone who posted: (I lost their name) --
At one time or another, every auto manufacturer has manufactured a lemon
or
two; even Honda admits to this. Please don't waste everyone's time by
announcing to the world that your `brand x' automobile is terrible, so
all
`brand x' automobiles are terrible, so no one should ever buy a car from
the `brand x' company. Such articles are worse than useless, because
they
cause substantial wasted bandwidth while carrying little or no useful
information.
(I would like to add: some problems are a constant to all cars. Many
first-time owners blame Chrysler for paint chips, scratches, etc., even
when close inspection of other cars would show that their problems are
not unique. But who looks closely at other people's cars? Likewise, many
problems are either inevitable (all car makes have problems) or are
caused/
just not fixed by incompetent dealers and/or mechanics.)
See the Dealing With Chrysler section for more information (Part 1).
33. Paint problems
The May 1, 1995 issue of Automotive News reports that Chrysler is
saddled with a paint glitch affecting all dark colored 1995 Chrysler
models such as black, maroon and forest green, except Jeeps and
Canadian built vehicles. The problem stems from moisture caught
between the paint and the clear-coat finish. Under direct sunlight,
the paint appears to have a blochy shadow or spotting effect. The
cause was due to a clear-coat additive produced by PPG.
The spotting occurs within three weeks of the vehicle
leaving the plant, while the paint job is still curing, and if there was
a 50 degree temperature swing during the day. Chrysler is reported
to buy back any suspect vehicle, repaint it, and sell it at auction with
full disclosure. Also, Chrysler will repaint suspect vehicles for free.
The problem started last summer and continued at some plants
until April.
Cars at the following plants were affected: Toluca (Neon), Oct-Apr,
Saltillo (P/U), Oct-Mar, St Louis (Minivans), Feb-Apr, Warren
(P/U, Dakota), Summer 94-Apr, Sterling Heights (JA's),
Summer 94-Apr, Newark (Lebaron, Concord, Intrepid), Nov-Apr,
Diamond-Star (Avenger, Sebring, Eagle, Mitsubishi Eclipse
and Galant), Summer 94-Feb.
Mitsubishi has about 4,900 dark colored cars with the problem.
Mitsubishi not announced anything yet on their cars.
- Wayne Toy
34. Are K&N filters worth it?
David Cooley notes, "Last year in Hot rod or Car crash magazine, they
did a test of several aftermarket Air filters (Accell, K&N) and compared
them to the paper filters. They did it on a flow bench and had a
particulate filter AFTER the filter
under test to see how well each filtered. The paper filters were
respectable in their flow numbers and filtering ability, but the K&N and
ACCELL both flowed almost 3 times as much air DIRTY as a clean paper
filter of the same size. The actual amount of particulate matter that
passed thru the K&N was less than the paper, and as it got dirtier
outside, they sprayed a new coat of oil (without cleaning) and found it
filtered even better than when it was clean.
The maintainter editorializes:
But are they economical and worth it? Probably only increase power much
on cars requiring high flow -- Neon, turbos -- and work best with a
better flowing muffler. Not much information on standard performance,
stock cars. They make the car louder (less engine noise filtering), and
cost $25 and up. On the other hand, you only need one filter for the
life of the car, they go longer between cleanings than paper filters go
between replacements, they save landfill space and probably a little
gas, and in cars where the filter gets dirty quickly, they probably save
money eventually. (But it'll take a while). You won't save money, but
you might save the environment a little, and you might get some more
power.
86. All other questions.
Check the ballast resistor, vacuum hoses, and computer codes.
******************* NEW CAR SPECS ******************
(Information is subject to change and inaccuracy).
AVENGER/SEBRING MOVED TO WEB SITE.
CIRRUS/STRATUS MOVED TO WEB SITE
1996 MINIVANS - AT WEB SITE
web site: http://www.mordor.com/valiant/index.html
** NEW ALUMINUM V-6 ENGINES **
For Chrysler to eliminate Mitsubishi engines, they need a small,
light V6 to replace the MMC 2.5 and 3.0. Two engines are being worked on
-- a 2.7 and a 3.2. From latest reports in Automobile magazine, the 2.7
is due to produce 170 hp, the 3.2 220 hp (making them similar to the
3.3/3.5). Both are destined first for the LH series, though they will
probably find their way into the cloud cars and minivans.
** NEW LH AND LHS **
Due in 1999, the new LH series will be redesigned for a transverse
mounted engine -- making them larger inside and about 20 inches shorter
outside. They will get the new, smaller, lighter weight 2.7 and 3.2
liter V6s -- all-Chrysler and all-aluminum.
The LHS will be made smaller, rather than larger, than the LH, and
designed to compete with BMW and their ilk. They may or may not receive
the reworked 3.5 liter engine, which will have 250 hp (up from 214).
** NEW NEONS **
The latest issue of "Up Front", the official voice of the Shelby Dodge
Automotive Club, mentions the rumor that there is a supercharged 2.4L
DOHC Neon running around Detroit. It's alleged to feature 170
horsepower, lots of torque and will hit the showrooms and streets in
early 1997. Also of note, the Winter 1994 Neon Racing Report, published
by Chrysler, states that there may be available a limited slip
differential available for the Neon during the 1997 model year. (Wayne
Toy)
From what my friends who work on the Neon at Chrysler tell me, the '98
Neon (which I guess in Neon lingo means it'll be out in 1997 . . . ;-)
will be "substantially different" than the '95 Neons that are currently
tooling around. The looks will remain largely the same, the engines
will be expanded, and their number-one focus is apparently on increasing
quality (Mike)
** NEW CONVERTIBLE **
A press release states that the new Chrysler Sebring JX will be released
in fall 1995. Built from the ground up as a convertible rather than as
an altered coupe, it will likely have better body stiffness than most
ragtops. It will also have good interior space, cab forward design, and
"more than a hint of Chrysler 300 heritage in the grille." (Yes, but
where's the pushbutton TorqueFlite?). Rumors suggested it would be
Cirrus-based.
** MISCELLANEOUS **
The auto trans in the neon was designed for a 250HP FWD turbo motor.
Chrysler may be trying
to decide if a turbocharged version of the 2.2L DOHC would be a good
seller. (David Cooley )
EXPORTS
Chrysler's Japanese retail affiliate is planning to double the size of
its retail channel in Japan in order to sell the Neon and minivans.
Most of Chrysler's sales in Japan are the Jeep Cherokee (11,000 units)
and Grand Cherokee (1155 units), with total sales of 13,601. Honda
dealers have been selling the Jeep Cherokee. Cars, including the Neon,
will be sold by about 200 Seibu Motor Sales outlets. The Neon is set to
arrive in 1996, and the minivan in 1997. (Wayne Toy)
Chrysler is expanding big time into Argentina. (PR)
********************* OIL FILTER DISCUSSIONS **********************
Shel Belinkoff said: I'll tell you a little bit about oil filters -
something that I learned recently while working on a project to test
filters for their different abilities. The first part of the test
involved cutting open a lot of filters and examining their
construction. I won't go into all the details at this point other than
to say that the Fram was the poorest constructed filter of the group.
Fram had the smallest amount of filter media, although that, in and of
itself, is of little consequence. The filter uses paper end caps which
are glued directly to the filtering media using an epoxy type of glue.
Of the three Fram filters that were tested, two came apart at the end
caps. There just isn't that much surface area where the media and the
cap are joined, and should there be the smallest imperfection, the seal
is compromised.
Further, the pressure relief valve on the Fram filters was the cheapest
pssible, nothing more than a bent piece of metal, with very little
ability to adjust to different pressures. The design of the filter also
allowed for a substantial amount of oil to bypass the filtering media on
each pass.
As for the CR tests, they were done quite a few years ago [1986], and a
number of filters that now seem to test out better than Fram were either
not tested at all back then, or their design has been substantially
changed, so that they are essentially no longer the same filter.
Wix/NAPA Gold has about twice the filter surface area than a Fram, given
the same size filter. In addition, it, and the Amsoil, the AC, and
others, use substantial metal end caps which are turned down over the
media. The media is sunk into the epoxy about 1/8" on these filters,
allowing substantially more strength and durability. Some of these
filters have a media similar in type to the Fram, but offer not only
more surface area, but greater thickness as well. The Amsoil filter, for
example, seems to be thicker than the Fram's media. The media thickness
was measured using a micrometer.
AC uses a special "glass" media in their "L" suffix filters. This
material will filter to a finer particle size than the Fram.
The anti-drainback valves on the Amsoil, Wix, Mann (German), and several
other filters are far more substantial than the valve in the Fram.
Canister thickness is greater than Fram in several other filters,
affording them a greater burst strength.
What this means is that, on a lot of levels, and in many areas, Fram is
at best an "average" filter. The K-Mart filter was the only other filter
I examined that had paper end caps, but it even had a larger element
than the Fram. Other points of construction were similar enough that, if
you didn't know which filter you were examining, you'd be hard-pressed
to tell which was the Fram and which was the K-Mart filter.
While the Fram may certainly be good enough to do the job, and let's
face it, there are a lot of folks using Fram filters with what appear
to be good results, they may not be "good enough" in extreme
conditions, or where one is hoping to achieve great longevity from
their engines.
-------------------------
SL6 Daniel wrote: Skinned Knuckles Magazine's highly respected editor,
Matt Joseph (automotive restorer and expert) wrote a highly detailed
article about oil filters. In it, he called Fram the "joke of the
industry" and had photos and data to prove it. When he cut open a bunch
of filters, he found vastly substandard construction and materials in
the Fram filter. Examples:
-less and smaller filter element
-thinner gauge metal for base plate and can
-scaly rust inside can--no rust protectant!
-flimsy "leaf-spring" style pressure relief valve/tension spring whose
tension varied sufficiently to present a risk of oil bypassing the
filter
-inconsistent placement of a substandard-thickness rubber oil drainback
valve.
-paperboard filter element end caps, glued to the EDGES of the filter
paper, bond was incomplete in a few samples
-in five samples, foreign material or glue or wire of some sort in/on
filter.
The Wix filter (and some others, I don't remember brands) he cut open
had just about the exact opposite of Fram's problems:
-metal filter end caps, securely epoxied to ends AND 1/8" of side of
filter
-consistent coil spring pressure relief valve/tension spring
-thick, correctly-placed rubber anti-drainback valve
-phosphate rust protection inside can
-no foreign material in filters.
Hence my recommendation to avoid Fram, which seems to have cheapened
what was once (10-15 years ago) an excellent filter to make more
money. Pity. I recommend Hastings LifeGuard and Wix/NAPA Gold filters.
-----
J.J. Gratelaiks said:
Check out a post by kru...@netcom.com (i think). He had an independent
lab test the top brands and the Fram did the best by far at filtering
small particles...
You say that Fram has thinner materials and such , but if the filter
still performs as well as or better than other brands, who cares? In
this age of weight conciousness by the auto manufacturers, maybe Fram is
doing the right thing. Every ounce of weight reduction counts, does is
not? As long as the part performs to spec or better. Besides the thing
isn't intended to be on the car for 1 gazillion miles..."a heavy
component is a non-efficient component"... I HAVE seen rust inside the
tube on various other filters, WIX included, probably a function of the
steel supplier.
******************* CONSUMER REPORTS DISCUSSIONS *******************
Problems with Consumers Reports:
1. Selection threat from self-selected sample
Raymond Anthony Ralph DeGennaro II said: CR does not draw their data
from the general public, only from their subscribers....They have
prove that their data represents the general public, and they haven't.
Will Mast said: I believe that the issue is not sample size, but
population incest. In short, CR teaches their readers to love a
certain type of car for certain reasons. The readership is polled and
regurgitates what they have learned. This info it then used for the
next lesson. Those who disagree cancel their subscriptions and are no
longer in the "pool."
(I believe Will was suggesting that Consumer Reports readers may be led
to think of some problems as being more important than others, as he
wrote below):
Will Mast said: CR teaches their readers to love a certain type of car
for certain reasons. The readership is polled and regurgitates what
they have learned. This info it then used for the next lesson.
Dave said: CR's harping on problems in some cars may sensitize owners
to
those particular problems. For example, people who never noticed bad
shifting on a 4-speed auto '90 Caravan may suddenly notice it.
Meanwhile, Taurus owners, not seeing any warnings about their
transmissions, may not notice the same problems. (Why does CR always
harp on the CC 4-speed trans problems, which did exist and were bad,
while essentially ignoring the Taurus trans problems, which did exist
and were just as bad?).
2. People who buy different car models may also maintain them
differently. No controls are present for this possibility.
Jim Eldridge said: I think that people willing to pay the premium for
a Japanese car are very concerned about reliability. Therefore they
are more likely to pamper their cars. Also, the car manufacturers
philosophy about quality (as opposed to real quality) has an effect.
I have a Dodge Daytona 85 that has 135,000 miles on it. Runs great.
At about 85,000 miles the timing belt broke, stranding my wife. The
maintenance schedule says nothing about replacing the belt. Dodge
thinks it's OK to wait till it breaks and then replace it. By the
way, the design is such that it does nothing bad to the engine (real
quality). However, to my wife, the car broke down and had a "serious
engine problem". My friend with a Nissan Maxima just had his 60,000
mile maintenance at the dealer. He had the t belt replaced, the fuel
injectors cleaned, oil change, etc. and a fuel injector replaced.
Cost $850!!! If he filled out the CR form, he would show no major
problems, just routine maintenance. He then told me he was
considering replacing all of his shocks because "it was about time."
No cheapskate Dodge owner would ever consider replacing shocks before
the car bounced down the road. If his timing belt had broken, his
head would be ruined and it would have cost thousands of dollars. All
Dodge had to do was recommend the belt change at 60,000 miles to avoid
a "serious engine problem".
Will Mast said: A friend with a Toyota used to brag about how trouble
free it was until I showed him all the repairs, including a cracked
exhaust valve, that were hidden in his 30,000 mile "maintenance"
visits
to the dealer.
Dave said: A local VW/Dodge dealers mechanic told me that, while his
VW
customers always changed their oil every 3,000 miles and did all
maintenance, the Dodge owners often changed their oil once a year --
some never did! -- and bitterly complained about any consequences of
their refusal to change oil and air filters. Maintenance does seem to
vary by car make, which makes sense, as people self-select car
manufacturers. What causes a person to buy a Taurus might also cause
them to change the transmission fluid ever 30,000 miles; what causes a
person to buy a Plymouth might cause them to never change it. This may
result in different reliabilities.
3. Serious problems are not defined: people who are inclined to buy one
make may define serious differently.
3a. Corollary: some manufacturers include serious repairs as routine
maintenance.
Dave said: To me, a serious problem is an oil seepage or a creak. To a
friend, rebuilding the transmission and engine in his Ford was
preventative maintenance. How about replacing head gaskets? Valve
timing?
There is no accounting for how well the vehicles are maintained.
Given:
1) If Brand A is well maintained, it is more reliable than Brand B.
2) Brand B is more tolerant of neglect.
3) The majority of Brand A owners neglect their vehicle.
Any report will show a bias, but if the maintenance records are known,
that can be taken into consideration. With CR's reports, you'll never
know.
Will Mast said: A friend with a Toyota used to brag about how trouble
free it was until I showed him all the repairs, including a cracked
exhaust valve, that were hidden in his 30,000 mile "maintenance"
visits
to the dealer.
4. Selection threat revisited:
Volunteer groups generally have different characteristics than
nonvolunteer groups. In other words, those who send in their surveys
are probably different from those who do not. Most studies try to
raise their response rates through follow-up calls, letters, even
post-cards. CR does not. Many studies check on the characteristics of
the nonrespondents to see what the error might be. CR does not.
5. Lumping cars together -- good options with bad.
Dave said: Different drivetrains have different reliabilities -- CR
lumps them all together. 3-speed Caravans and 4-speed Caravans are
listed in the same category ini the reliability ratings, despite the
amazingly different repair histories of the two transmissions. They
do separate 4-cylinder from 6-cylinder, but lump the 3.0 MMC
oil-leaker in with the 3.3 CC V6 and the 3.8 V6. On the Sundance, 2.5
and 2.2 were not separated, either; turbo models were presumably in
the mix as well.
Lloyd defended CR: he says that unreliable options or components are
pointed out in the ratings. Not verified.
6. Ignoring change.
Dave said: CR does not seem to go back and change their reports when
the cars change to fix reported problems. Example: the Neon addressed
concerns of CR regarding bottoming out under load (fixed), lighted
HVAC knobs (fixed), and ride (fixed). The Sundance labored for 3
years under the same review despite many improvements.
7. Downrating cars for issues of personal preference.
Dave said: On the Accord, for example, they said the
driver sat too low despite good visibility and comfort. They show
contortionists striving to bang their heads on Neon windows to prove
that frameless windows are bad.
8. Bias in setting up comparisons
Dave said: Some cars get easy competition, some get hard competition.
They compare the Chrysler LH models to the best of their past rated
models rather than to domestic competition (they usually rate domestic
vs domestic and foreign vs foreign). They rated GMs new X cars against
each other, though.
9. Reviewing cars too early in production and ignoring changes
Dave said: The Neon review was obviously of one of the first cars
produced. Nearly all the problems they encountered were fixed in cars
made later that year; and nearly all were fixable for free by the
dealer under Chrysler TSBs. They never mentioned this later.
10. Those who select from a manufacturer may have different
characteristics than those who select from another manufacturer
(self-selection bias again).
Dave said: Some people happen to drive their cars more aggresively
than others, which may wear them out faster -- VW drivers seem to be
much more aggressive (or assertive?) than Escort drivers. Not
mentioned by CR. Driving habits have a lot to do with car wear; owners
of some cars may tend to drive more gently and to baby them.
John Greenstreet noted: the CR survey MAY over/understate the
reliability of certain cars because the people that own them are not
homogeneous. I submit that Americans are, in general, a fairly
patriotic bunch. For example, I do not recall ever seeing (or reading
about) "Buy German" signs in Germany, yet the analog is common here.
Also, in America I have never heard of someone "losing their job to
German competition", but we've all heard that phrase with the word
"Japanese" in it. Therefore, many people will have a subconscious
need to justify their purchase of a Japanese auto over of a domestic
one, and they could do this by believing superior reliability is the
reason they bought it. Because of the well-documented effects of
cognitive dissonance, they would then tend to overlook or downplay
anything that would attack this mind-set. And sure enough, we do see
many people who vehemently defend Japanese cars' reliability and smear
that of others.
11. Ignoring important information
For example, on the Sundance 2.2, they complained that the engine
"surges" on acceleration. The 2.5 liter and V6 options ($155 for the
2.5) were not rated or even mentioned in the review, although they
were
popular and even standard on some models.
12. Important experimental artifacts:
* Trying to please the experimenter (evaluation apprehension) -- people
who volunteer normally have a high need for approval, according to past
research. Therefore, they may try to to bring their experience into line
with what CR seems to want.
* Experimenters usually provide demand characteristics (consciously or
not show what they want the subjects to say or do). CR certainly does
this -- their values are fairly clear.
13. Generalization
It has been noted that CR's results, coming as they do only from CR's
readers, cannot be generalized to everyone. Some say this is OK,
because
only CR readers read CR. However, this also means that if you are an
atypical CR reader; a library reader; or someone having CR quoted to
you
over the net, then their results may not apply to you.
Summary:
CR's reports are a piece of information (not a bible, not an
end-all-be-all) and everybody needs to understand the limitations of the
info within. I obviously read their year end car reviews, but I
understand the limitations of the data provided. My objections are that
they (and many {but not all, for the overly sensitive types} of their
readers) try to ignore these limitations horn button positions (a matter
of personal preference obvious to anyone who test drives a car), and
count dealer-inspection things like overinflated tires as sample def
Dave said: CR must be taken with many grains of salt. You must know
their assumptions and look at all cars in the field to make a decision
thats right for you. Their reliability esimates must be taken with a
HUGE grain of salt and may be very far off, though I would trust the
difference between a solid black dot and a solid red dot. They need to
get validity checks by (1) polling the general population now and then
as well for comparison); (2) getting some in-depth information on a
smaller sample, including maintenance habits; and (3) starting to use
anchored rating scales. They need to tell all their information and be a
little skeptical about their own methods, as everyone should be trained
to do when learning to use statistics (and must do when doing research).
And they need to report more about their methods and formulas, and any
problems they can see. They also need to correct any other problems
noted above.
On the other hand, they are pretty much the only game in town. Given
some caveats, Consumers Reports is very handy and looks at some things
that car magazines generally ignore, such as trunk space, child safety,
etc. Taken in balance, they are a decent source. But you must know what
their biases and limitations are, because they certainly aren't going to
tell you!
******************* TALKING TO CHRYSLER CORP *******************
Chrysler's US customer service number (toll-free) is 1-800-992-1997.
Five-Star Dealers list: 1-800-677-5782.
Free catalog of service bulletins: 1-800-626-1523.
To order service manuals, MasterTech issues and videos,
and bound TSB lists: 1-800-626-1523
Zone offices are listed in your owners manual.
The customer arbitrarion board is listed in your owners manual.
For problems, see the discussion early in part 1 of this FAQ.
Write with suggestions, complaints, or praise to the Customer Center,
Box 302, Centerline, MI 48015. This department has been recently
reorganized and is now much more responsive.
Dave
see it soon. To suggest additions to the modifications FAQ, write to
Gary Hamel <ha...@cl.uh.edu>.
See the very last part of this section for reading ESA computer codes
without a scan tool! Useful for those without the key-turn-watch-light
feature (e.g. 1985 Caravans) -- and those with it! Courtesy of Bohdan
Bodnar.
Contents: 1. Engine Codes
2. Engine types
3. Body types
4. Acronyms
5. Info from the Center for Auto Safety
6. Reading codes without a scan tool
(Diagnosing/tuning cars with computer controlled,
carbureted engines)
DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for
damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein.
The information below may be reproduced in any way PROVIDED that
credit is given to the writers and the maintainer; and that it is not
published in book or magazine form without the prior written
permission of the maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without
needing to ask, a FREE copy of the final material; and that no changes
are made (except for formatting) without the express permission of the
maintainer (val...@mordor.com = David Zatz).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Please note that, if you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained by the
following commands, if you can:
ftp rtfm.mit.edu
[Name:] anonymous
[Password:] [your e-mail address]
cd pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general
dir
get part1 part2 part3 part4
cd ..
get neon [or whatever other FAQ might be there]
bye
- - - - - - - - - - - -
FAQ for rec.autos.makers.Chrysler - Part III
********************************************************
COMPUTER CODES
Start with the ignition off. Within five seconds, switch the key on,
off, on, off, on. (On is not start!)
The "check engine" light will flash. Count the flashes Each code is a
two digit code, so a (for example) 23 would be FLASH FLASH <pause> FLASH
FLASH FLASH <loong pause>
It will never flash more than 9 times, watch for pauses!
55 is end of codes, 33 is normal if you dont have air conditioning.
When the computer indicates major failure, it will activate Limp In
mode, which substitutes guesses for data to compensate for sensor
failure.
Please note that some codes are NOT included below, this
is not a complete listing, but it IS very close to complete.
The following was leeched from Herb. :)
[some additions by cho...@astro.ge.com Charles Hobbs)
[modified later]
* Activates Power Limited/Check Engine light.
11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect)
OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth;
OR loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor
12 Battery or computer recently disconnected
13* MAP sensor or vacuum line may not be working
14* MAP sensor voltage below .16V or over 4.96V
15 No speed/distance sensor signal
16* Loss of battery voltage detected with engine running
17 (1985 turbo only): knock sensor circuit
17 Engine stays cool too long (bad thermostat or coolant sensor?)
21 Oxygen sensor signal doesn't change (stays at 4.3-4.5V)
Probably bad oxygen sensor
22* Coolant sensor signal out of range
- May have been disconnected to set timing
23* Incoming air temperature sensor may be bad
24* Throttle position sensor over 4.96V (SEE NOTE #3)
25 Automatic Idle Speed (AIS) motor driver circuit shorted
or target idle not reached, vacuum leak found
26 Peak injector circuit voltage has not been reached
(need to check computer signals, voltage reg, injectors)
(SEE NOTE #4 BELOW)
27 Injector circuit isn't switching when it's told to (TBI)
OR (MPI) injector circuit #1 not switching right
OR (turbo) injector circuit #2 not switching right
OR (all 1990-) injector output driver not responding
- check computer, connections
31 Bad evaporator purge solenoid circuit or driver
32 (1984 only) power loss/limited lamp or circuit
32 EGR gases not working (1988) - check vacuum, valve
32 (1990-92, all but Turbo) computer didn't see change in
air/'fuel ratio when EGR activated
- check valve, vacuum lines, and EGR electrical
33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted
(may be in the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)
34 (1984-86) EGR solenoid circuit shorted or open
34 (1987-1991) speed control shorted or open
35 Cooling fan relay circuit open or shorted
35 (trucks) idle switch motor fault - check connections
36 (turbo) Wastegate control circuit open or shorted
36 (3.9/5.2 RWD) solenoid coil circuit (air switching)
36 (Turbo IV) #3 Vent Solenoid open/short
37 Shift indicator light failure, 5-speed
OR
part throttle lock/unlock solenoid driver circuit (87-89)
OR
solenoid coil circuit (85-89 Turbo I-IV)
OR
Trans temparature sensor voltage low (1995 and on; see NOTE 2)
41* Alternator field control circuit open or shorted
42 Automatic shutdown relay circuit open or shorted
42 Fuel pump relay control circuit
42 Fuel level unit - no change over miles
OR
42 Z1 voltage missing when autoshutdown circuit energized (whatever
that means)
43 Peak primary coil current not achieved with max dwell time
OR
43 Cylinder misfire
OR
43 Problem in power module to logic module interface
44 No FJ2 voltage present at logic board
OR
44 Logic module self-diagnostics indicate problem
OR
44 Battery temperature out of range (see Note #1!)
45 Turbo boost limit exceeded (engine was shut down by logic module)
46* Battery voltage too high during charging or charging system
voltage too low
47 Battery voltage too low and alternator output too low
51 Oxygen sensor stuck at lean position (lean condition)
OR
51 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
52 Oxygen sensor stuck at rich position
OR
52 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
53 Logic module internal problem
54 No sync pickup signal during engine rotation (turbo only)
OR
54 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
55 End of codes
61 "Baro" sensor open or shorted
62 EMR mileage cannot be stored in EEPROM
62 PCM failure SRI mile not stored
63 Controller cannot write to EEPROM
64 Catalytic converter efficiency failure
65 Power steering switch failure
88 Start of test (not usually given, don't expect it)
These codes cover multiple years and engines (2.2l, 2.5l, 3.0l).
NOTE #1.
The power module has an air-cooled resistor which is used to sense the
incoming air temperature. This information is fed to the logic module
and is used to control the duty cycle of the field current in the
alternator. This code applies ONLY to alternators whose voltage is
computer regulated. The battery voltage is sensed by the logic module
-- there is an internal takeoff from the wire feeding the NVRAM
keep-alive power circuit which is fed to a voltage comparator. So...if
you lose the feed to keep RAM information stored when the engine's off,
you also lose battery voltage sensing. -- Bohdan Bodnar
NOTE #2
From the 1995 TRUCK (Ram) manuals: the trailer towing package includes a
transmission coolant temp sensor while the standard package doesn't. I
imagine that the fault code detection system is the same for both
models. This would cause the low (no) voltage indication....no sensor
to send any voltage. -- J.E. Winburn
NOTE #3
Matt Rowe <st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> comments: The throttle
postion circuit is a sensor which tells the computer how far the
accelerator is depressed. So a fault in this that is intermitent is
probably due to a loose wire or connector. The Throttle Position Sensor
(TPS) is located on the throttle body on the opposite side of the
throttle cable. The connector should have a round rubber cover over the
connections. Clear the fault codes, start the car and try jiggling the
wires/connectors to try to trip a fault code. Since this sensor is the
only way the computer can tell where the throttle is so a loss of this
signal could cause the other problems so start with trying to fix this
one.
NOTE #4
During cranking, the computer will test the current through the
injector to see whether there's too much resistance in the injector's
path. If there is, code 26 is set.
In my Le Baron, the problem was cured with copious use of
television tuner
cleaner on the Bosch connector and the injector's connector.
For TBI engines, the injector's cold resistance should be between
0.9 and 1.2 ohms (specs vary with year). This is a peak-and-hold
injector. On a properly operating system with the engine idling the
peak period should be about 1.2 milliseconds whereas the hold period
will vary with parameters such as temperature, MAP reading, etc. If
it's lower than this at idle, then either the injector's shorted or
there's a defect in the injector driver circuit. (Bohdan Bodnar)
***********************************************************
From Lloyd Parker:
Engines used in Chryslers since 1966:
4-cylinders: (MMC=Mitsubishi, CC=Chrysler, VW=Volkswagen)
1.4 SOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Champ
1.5 (Sunbeam) -- Cricket (British)
1.5 SOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 SOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Champ, Challenger, Sapporo, Arrow
1.6 SOHC (Peugeot) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.6 SOHC turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 DOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.7 SOHC (VW) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.8 SOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Vista, Summit, Laser, Talon
2.0 SOHC (MMC) -- Arrow, Vista
2.0 SOHC (CC) -- Neon, Stratus, maybe 96+ minivans
2.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC (CC) -- Neon, Sebring, Avenger, Talon
2.2 SOHC -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo, Aries, Lancer,
Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, 400, 600, Caravelle, Caravan,
Voyager, LeBaron, Laser, Daytona, New Yorker, E-Class
2.2 SOHC turbo -- LeBaron, New Yorker, Limousine, Laser, Daytona,
Lancer, TC, 600, Shadow, Caravelle, Sundance, Omni,
Charger, E-Class, Shelby
2.2 DOHC turbo -- Spirit, Daytona (joint venture with Lotus)
2.2 DOHC turbo -- TC (joint venture with Maserati)
2.2 SOHC (Renault) -- Medallion
2.4 SOHC (MMC) -- Vista, Summit
2.4 DOHC -- Stratus, 1996+ minivans, (Cirrus and Breeze?)
2.5 SOHC -- Caravan, Voyager, Aries, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance,
Duster, 600, Lancer, Dynasty, Daytona, Spirit, Acclaim,
LeBaron, Caravelle
2.5 SOHC turbo -- Caravan, Voyager, Spirit, Acclaim, Shadow,
Sundance, LeBaron, Daytona
2.5 (AMC-derived) -- Wrangler, Cherokee, Premier
2.6 SOHC (MMC) -- New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine,
LeBaron, 400, 600, Aries, Reliant, Caravan, Voyager
2.6 SOHC turbo (MMC) -- Conquest
2.5 is 2.2 with balance shafts, minor changes. 2.0 (CC) is 2.2 with
different heads, fuel system, some tweaks. 3.9 V-6 (below) based on 318.
2.4 is 2.0 with balance shafts, minor changes.
----------------------------------
V-6s:
2.5 SOHC (MMC) -- Sebring, Avenger, Cirrus, Stratus (from 3.0)
3.0 SOHC (MMC) -- LeBaron, TC, minivans, New Yorker, Spirit,
Dynasty, Daytona, Stealth, Shadow ES, Acclaim, Duster
3.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Stealth
3.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Stealth
3.0 SOHC (Renault) -- Premier, Monaco
3.3 SOHC (CC)-- New Yorker, Dynasty, LH series, minivans
3.5 SOHC -- Concorde, New Yorker, LHS, Intrepid, Vision
3.8 SOHC -- New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial, minivans
3.9 SOHC -- trucks
----------------------------------
The SLANT SIX:
2.8 (170) -- Dart, Valiant
3.3 (198) -- Barracuda, Challenger, Dart, Valiant, Duster, Scamp
3.7 (225)-- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Mirada, Diplomat, St.
Regis, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite,
Barracuda, Valiant, Duster, Scamp, Volare
Note that slant sixes came with a variety of carb configurations, but
single and dual barrel were most common. Double barrel increased economy
and performance with a progressive opening. Plug: join the Slant Six
Club!
----------------------------------
The AMC straight six crowd:
4.0 IL-6 (AMC-derived) -- Cherokee, Wagoneer, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee
4.2 IL-6 (AMC) -- Wrangler
----------------------------------
V-8s:
4.5 (273) -- Dart, Valiant, Barracuda, Coronet, Belvedere, Satellite
5.2 (318) -- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, St. Regis, Magnum,
Mirada, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Valiant, Scamp, Duster,
Volare, Cordoba, LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, Gran Fury,
Imperial, Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer, Diplomat
5.6 (340) -- Charger, Challenger, Dart, Barracuda, Duster, Road Runner
5.9 (360) -- LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, 300, Cordoba, Diplomat,
Polara, Monaco, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Gran Fury,
Barracuda, Duster, St. Regis
5.9 (361) -- Coronet, Charger, Belvedere
5.9 (360-AMC) -- Grand Wagoneer
6.3 (383)-- Newport, 300, Town & Country, Polara, Monaco, Coronet,
Charger, Challenger, Dart, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Road
Runner, Barracuda, Magnum
6.6 (400) -- Newport, New Yorker, Town & Country, Monaco, Fury, Road
Runner, Gran Fury, Charger, maybe Cordoba, Magnum
7.0 (426, Hemi & Wedge) -- Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda,
Challenger, Charger, Coronet, Daytona, Superbird
7.2 (440) -- Newport, New Yorker, 300, Town & Country, Imperial, Polara,
Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Daytona, Superbird
Get this -- 440 was base engine on Daytona, Superbird.
8.0 V-10 -- Viper (488 cid)
***********************************************************
BODY TYPES
(Below list courtesy Lloyd R. Parker)
A -- Valiant, Dart, Barracuda, LeBaron (sedan), Scamp, Duster
B -- Coronet, Charger, Magnum, Monaco, Premier, Belvedere, Satellite,
GTX, Road Runner, Fury, Cordoba
C -- Polara, Monaco, Fury, VIP, Gran Fury, Newport, 300, Town & Country,
New Yorker, Imperial, Dynasty
D -- Talon, (Plymouth) Laser
E -- Barracuda, Challenger, 600, Caravelle, E-Class, New Yorker
F -- Aspen, Volare
G -- Daytona, (Chrysler) Laser
H -- Lancer, LeBaron (hatchback)
J -- LeBaron (coupe/convertible), Cordoba, Imperial, Mirada
K -- LeBaron, Executive, Limousine, Aries, Reliant, 400, 600
L -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
M -- Diplomat, LeBaron, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Gran Fury
P -- Shadow, Sundance, Duster
Q -- TC by Maserati
R -- St. Regis, Gran Fury, Newport, New Yorker
S -- Town & Country, Caravan, Voyager
Y -- New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial
LH -- Concorde, New Yorker, LHS, Intrepid, Vision
PL -- Neon
JA -- Cirrus, Stratus
FJ -- Sebring, Avenger
SR -- Viper
XJ -- Cherokee, Wagoneer
YJ -- Wrangler
ZJ -- Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer
SJ -- Grand Wagoneer
PJ -- Talon
***********************************************************
From: Joe Schaffer <scha...@mopac.amd.com>
MOPARCRONYMS=========================================
* Modified items followed by /daz; list shortened considerably
\6 = Slant six (cylinder layout pattern)
ABS = Anti lock Brakes (from German) /daz
A/C = Air Conditioning
ACR = American Club Racer (showroom stock race package for the Neon)
AT = Automatic Transmission
ATDC = After Top Dead Center
AWD = All Wheel Drive
BHP = Brake Horse Power
BTDC = Before Top Dead Center
CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy legislation
CC = Chrysler Corp; Cruise Control; Cubic Centimeter (cc)
CID = Cubic Inch Displacement
CO = Carbon monOxide
CO2 = Carbon diOxide (oxide, being plural constitutes the "2")
DC = Direct Connection
DIS = Distributorless Ignition System
DMV = Department of Motor Vehicles
EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation
ET = Elapsed Time
FSM = Factory Service Manual
FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily / Found On Road Dead
4WD = Four Wheel Drive (now usually AWD, these days)
FWD = Front Wheel Drive
FYI = For Your Information
GLH = Goes Like Hell (origional Hi-performance Dodge Omni)
GLHS = Goes Like Hell Somemore (next Hi-Po Shelby Omni)
GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight
HC = HydroCarbons
HP = Horse Power
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion (see IMO)
LH = not an an acronym, a platform name (Concorde, Intrepid, Vision)
MMC = Mitsubishi Motor Corp.
MML = Mopar Mailing List
MOPAR = Mainly Out Performs All the Rest
MP = Mopar Performace (Mopar's performance parts)
MP = Mounted Police, Multiple Personality, Member Parliament /daz
MT = Manual Transmission
NHTSA = National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NOS = New Old Stock (40 year old part still in factory wrapper!)
NOX = Nitrogen OXides (NO, NO2, etc)
OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer
P/S = Power Steering
PB = Power Brakes
PCV = Positive Crankcase Ventilation
PS = Power Steering
PSI = Pounds per Square Inch
RPM = Revolutions Per Minute
RWD = Rear Wheel Drive
S/N = Signal to Noise ratio (garbage posts vs. useful)
SBEC = Single Board Engine Controller
SMEC = Single Module Engine Computer
T/A = That's Awesome
T/A = Trans Am (a racing class)
TDC = Top Dead Center
TPS = Throttle Postions Solenoid
TSB = Technical Service Bulletin
WOT = Wide Open Throttle
***********************************************************
CHRYSLER INFO from CENTER FOR AUTO SAFETY
Note: this is just a summary, we suggest you contact CAS at 2001 S
Street NW, Washington, DC 20009 for more info. Ask for this factsheet
and provide a self-addressed, 55 cent stamped envelope and, if you like,
a donation. Comments in parentheses are editorial remarks/questions.
* FIRES - recalls on 1985-87 turbo models for bad fuel hose connections.
* Valve cover gaskets on 1989-90 FWD models
* FIRES - fuel reservoir leaks on 87-89 Omni/Horizon.
* STALLING - Omni/Horizons mostly, drivability kits issues (2.6?)
* TIMING CHAINS - 1981-86, 2.6 liter engine. Chrysler often paid at
least partly.
* POWER STEERING - various FWD models (including minivans), 1981-89.
Problems in Saginaw & TRW steering units. TSB 19-01-83.
* SUSPENSION: 1981-83 K-cars, front crossmember corrosion.
* SEATS - 1985 Laser, LeBaron, 600, Lancer, Daytona power driver's seat
attachment failure.
* PARK - in column-mounted automatic trans -- 1981-90 vehciles -- NHTSA
investigation closed.
* BRAKES - 1978-92 models, rear brake lockup and master cylinder
failure. Pressure may get repairs out of warranty.
- ABS in many 1991 vehicles: recalled 91V-1991
- disc brake pad separation in 1989 Daytona and LeBaron - recalled
- ABS in 1992 minivans: may lose fluid, lose ABS - recalled
* SEAT BELTS: difficulty latching front belts, all 1991 models
(recalled)
- inoperative automatic belts in 1988-89 Shadow/Sundance (recalled)
* A/C: clutch failure, 1985-86 4-cylinder models. TSBs 24-01-85,
24-02-86.
* TRANSMISSION: 1989-91 models with 4-speed auto are unreliable (big
surprise). Write to CAS-Ultradrive for more info with a 55 cent stamped,
addressed return envelope.
=========================
DIAGNOSING PROBLEMS IN COMPUTER CONTROLLED
CARBURETED ENGINES
From: boh...@uscbu.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar)
This is a description of the procedure I've used to diagnose air/fuel
mixture problems in computer controlled carbureted engines; the
outlined procedure can also be used to set the idle air/fuel mixture
without resorting to infrared exhaust gas analysis. The procedure is
based on the General Motors "System Performance Test" which was
developed for diagnosing problems in GM's carbureted engines. This
procedure will not work with carburetors which use a stepping motor to
control the a/f mixture (e.g., Ford's variable venturi carburetors).
THEORY
The a/f mixture is controlled by a MIXTURE CONTROL SOLENOID (MC
solenoid). This is a valve which operates at a fixed frequency
(typically, 10 Hz) and whose duty cycle (valve's ON time divided by
period) is varied. That is, the valve is pulse width modulated. When
the valve is turned on, the incoming a/f mixture is fully leaned; when
off, fully enrichened. The former is called a "lean command" whereas
the latter is called a "rich command." By varying the duty cycle of the
MC solenoid, the AVERAGE a/f mixture can be varied. In GM products,
this valve directly varies the incoming fuel and air flow. In Fords,
only the incoming air is directly varied. In Chryslers, only the
incoming fuel flow is directly varied.
The valve has a two wires electrical connector. On wire is connected to
switched battery voltage whereas the other is connected to a power
transistor in the computer and is a source of switched ground.
During closed-loop operation the following will occur (assume the oxygen
sensor is sensing a lean condition -- its voltage will be low):
1). The computer gradually decreases the MC solenoid's duty cycle.
2). The exhaust eventually becomes rich enough that the oxygen sensor's
output will swing high (about 1 volt).
3). The computer gradually increases the MC solenoid's duty cycle.
4). The exhaust eventually becomes lean enough that the oxygen sensor's
output will swing low (about 0 volt).
The cycle now repeats. A device for monitoring the solenoid's duty
cycle (such as a dwell meter) will show a constantly varying duty cycle.
The frequency of the oscillations will depend on the how fast the
computer varies the duty cycle and the engine's RPM. An AVERAGE duty
cycle of 50% corresponds to, on the average, NO average a/f correction.
Stated differently, everything is operating correctly. An average duty
cycle of LESS THAN 50% corresponds to, on the average, a rich command
(the computer is compensating for a lean condition). An average duty
cycle GREATER THAN 50% corresponds to, on the average, a lean command.
DIAGNOSIS AND SETTING IDLE A/F MIXTURE
Monitoring the MC solenoid's average duty requires (for most people) the
use of high impedance dwell meter. A low impedance dwell meter may be
used unless it affects engine operation; my recommendation is to not
use a low impedance dwell meter (that is, stay away from self-powered
dwell meters). Following the GM procedure, set the dwell meter to the
six cylinders scale REGARDLESS of the number of cylinders in the engine.
At this setting, 30 degrees will correspond to a 50% duty cycle, 60 to a
100% duty cycle, and 0 to a 0% duty cycle. Run the engine until closed
loop operation is present; this will be indicated by a varying dwell
(see footnote 1 for deviations from this procedure). Once the engine is
hot, not the average dwell -- the reading should vary equally above 30
degrees and equally below 30 degrees. The following is a brief trouble
listing:
1). DWELL NOT VARYING: system is operating in open loop.
2). DWELL STUCK AT 10 DEGREES OR LOWER: full rich command is present;
the computer is compensating for WHAT APPEARS TO BE a massive fuel flow
reduction (check for dirt in carburetor, air injection system stuck in
upstream position, vacuum leaks, improper a/f mixture setting...).
3). DWELL STUCK AT 50 DEGREES OR HIGHER: full lean command is present
(check for float stuck low, valve seat damage, oxygen sensor's sense
lead shorted to battery voltage, etc.)
4). DWELL OSCILLATING, BUT AVERAGE READING IS BELOW 30 DEGREES: average
rich command is present (check for vacuum leaks, dirt in carburetor's
jets, improperly set a/f mixture...)
5). DWELL OSCILLATING, BUT AVERAGE READING IS ABOVE 30 DEGREES: average
lean command is present. Check for incorrectly set a/f mixture, float
stuck low, valve seat damage, clogged air filter, etc...).
Based on the above descriptions, it should be fairly clear on how to set
the idle a/f mixture: merely set the mixture so that the average dwell
is 30 degrees. Now, suppose the system's dwell is not varying, but the
sensors are working properly, the upper radiator hose is hot...
Several cars with small engines have the oxygen sensor mounted fairly
far away from the engines. Indeed, during idle conditions, the sensor
may cool off to the point that it will not operate (I had this
experience in a 1986 Mustang with 2.3 liters engine and EEC-IV system).
My recommendation is that all electrical accessories be turned off (so
as to provide a minimal load on the engine) and use the idle stop screw
on the carburetor to gradually increase the idle rpm until the sensor
begins oscillating. Ensuring a negligible load on the engine guarantees
that the carburetor will be operating mostly on its idle circuit. Now,
set the a/f mixture so that the average dwell is 30 degrees. On the
Mustang, this was done at about 1500 rpm.
Note that the a/f mixture setting procedure assumes that NO fuel
delivery problems (vacuum leaks, clogged carburetor, etc.) are present.
FOOTNOTES
[1] In some engines (e.g., GM cars with the "min-T" system -- Chevette)
the a/f mixture is varied REGARDLESS of whether the engine is in closed
loop operation or not. Consider setting the a/f mixture or diagnosing
at a slightly increased rpm.
Dave
DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or
for damages resulting from the use of the information contained
herein. The information below may be reproduced in any way
PROVIDED that credit is given to the writers and the maintainer;
and that it is not published in book or magazine form without
the prior written permission of the maintainer; that the maintainer
receives, without needing to ask, a FREE copy of the final material;
and that no changes are made (except for formatting) without the
express permission of the maintainer (val...@mordor.com =
David Zatz).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Please note that, if you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained by the
following commands, if you can:
ftp rtfm.mit.edu
[Name:] anonymous
[Password:] [your e-mail address]
cd pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general
dir
get part1 part2 part3 part4
cd ..
get neon [or whatever other FAQ might be there]
bye
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Please do NOT contact me directly via e-mail with car-related questions.
Sending them to the newsgroup is a much better idea. I have a limited
personal knowledge. Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
PART IV - Troubleshooting (on Chrysler products)
This is separated into three parts: modern cars/trucks/minivans; classic
cars (rear wheel drive); and funny noises. Neon-specific items are in
the Neon FAQ. The funny noises section was created because it's the most
common problem, and seemed to warrant separation. If you have any
suggestions for organizing this FAQ, please let me know.
A list of which cars are included in which category is at the end.
** Index for Modern Cars/Trucks/Minivans: **
* A good diagnostic procedure for the optical distributor system is
listed at the end.
* Many problems are caused by poor battery connections to the cables,
which can cause signals to the computer to be incorrect without (or
with) fault codes being registered. Check and clean the battery
terminals and cables first!
1. * Important! Fuel leak alert! - ALL 2.2 engines
2. Climate control system acting strangely
3. Idle speed jumps OR Intermittent idle speed problems (2.2/2.5)
*** (see also #28) - rough idle is in other items too
4. Automatic seat belts don't work/don't work well
5. Running rich
6. Tachometer problems
7. LH headlights not bright enough (Intrepid, Vision, Concorde)
8. Heater isn't working right (front wheel drive cars)
9. Caravan/Voyager door won't open/close
10. Oil seeps from the valve cover gaskets (2.2/2.5 liter engines)
11. Check Engine light went on
12. Computer code 13 (MAP sensor) - engine runs rough (see #15)
13. Backfiring
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
15. More information on the MAP sensor and testing it
16. Hard to shift into reverse
17. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
19. Cylinder head or oil pan gasket leaks
20. Speedometer doesn't work
21. ABS jerky
22. Automatic transmission jerky in downshifts
22. Abrupt downshift from 3 to 2
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
24. Brake rotor warping
25. Oil leak - manual transmission (VERY common)
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts
27. Rough idle - 2.2/2.5 liter
28. Idle speed increases / engine races sometimes / erratically
(see LONG STORY at bottom of this FAQ).
29. Smoky exhaust
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running
31. Stalling / not starting
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)
/ icing of carburetor and other parts
34. Gas gauge acts funny
35. Engine sometimes dies / car just quits.
36. Control/status panel/console acting funny
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems
38. Temperature gauge problems
39. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / coolant loss /
car runs hot / no heat / other coolant shenanigans --
Tom Johnson may help you to prevent $$ problems!
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration
45. Turbo engine cutout/power loss: See long story at end
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake
47. Hesitation (see related topics above)
48. 3.9 liter (pre-1993) common problem - PREVENT IT
49. Turbo cuts out / warning light may go on
50. Jeep 4.0 stalling
51. Car just quits.
52. ABS note - Chrysler and GM minivans
53. Code 52 on 86-87 engines
54. Hesitation, 3.0 liter V-6
55. Service engine light goes on.
56. Cruise control problems
57. Battery charging problems
Index for Classic Cars:
C1. Won't start
C2. Anything from pollution to loss of power -
mechanic says replace engine, trans, ignition, or carb
or stalling, rough idle, etc.
C3. Stalling
C4. Windshield wipers won't work
C5. Water leaks into the car
C6. Runs rough cold, improves with heat.
C7. Rough idle on Lean-Burn (computer controlled carburetor) systems
C8. Gas gauge acts funny: See #34 above.
C9. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow -- see #39 above
Index of Funny Noises:
1. Noise on turns
2. Dakota creak
3. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
4. 4-cylinders: snapping noise when starting/stopping
5. Daytona rattle
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
7. Whining or whistling noises from belt driven accessories
(affects most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
8. Rattle from back of car (hatchbacks)
9. Rattles/noises from engine compartment
10. Misc rattles
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)
============================================================
====
1. FUEL LEAKS:
> They did do a recall for fuel line replacement in '88 (I have an '87), but it
> was presented as replacing a rigid line with a more flexible one
[between the metal line and the fuel pressure regulator]. Clamp was
loose and fuel was dripping. (Sherrie E. Settle)
* I'd recommend every 2.2 turbo owner check these fuel line clamps *
Same problem with my '88 Omni 2.2L TBI. It was leaking fuel
from one of the lines on the left rear of the engine.
Tightening the clamps worked. (wie...@acn.purdue.edu)
The Center for Auto Safety notes that fuel leaks have been a
problem on CC turbo models. Check your clamps now and then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Air Temperature Control Problems:
Problem: auto temperature control will get to a point where you can hear
the fan blowing full blast, but none of the vents will open! After 5
minutes it chooses whichi vent to use and all is fine. Likes to turn the
a/c on and off at will.
Anyone got a solution?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Intermittent Idle Problems:
psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
I've got any '87 Shadow, w/ a 2.2 Turbo I engine. It normally runs
great, but has a VERY intermittent idle problem. With no notice, hot
or cold, in rain or shine, the idle jumps from the usual 800 RPM or so
up to 3000+. Sometimes it goes away quickly, sometimes I have to
drive all the way home with it like that. It only happens once in a
great while. Not a linkage/accelerator problem, stuck throttle plate,
vacuum leak, or bad AIS motor. Something is causing the logic module to
open up the AIS motor and keep it there. This last time I manually got
the AIS motor closed and then disconnected it.
**
Try turning the defroster off. Last year my 84 Laser was doing the same
thing. When I turned off the defroster, the engine went back to proper
idle. Later, the computer kicked out the code for the speed/distance
sensor. (t...@po.cwru.edu (Tom))
**
I had the same problem and it was low freon in the A/C. (james eldridge)
**
I had this problem for a long time with my '88 Omni. It turns out that
the wiring harness on the back side of the engine gets so hot that it
damages the insulation on the wires, causing a short circuit. He
separated and re-insulated all of the wires, and the problem has not
recurred in over a year. -- Jeffrey J. Wieland
**********
High idle, 2.2/2.5 TBI, especially 1988:
Most likely automatic idle speed system. Check for fault codes. Check
wiring harness near AIS motor for shorted wires or wires that seem stuck
together (separate and insulate from each other). Also check EGR
system, vacuum system, and timing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Automatic seat belt problems
In the early part of 1993, there was a recall for "P-car auto shoulder
belt" The symptom was inoperative automatic shoulder belts. The fix
was
to lubricate the tracks at least once a year with Passive Restraint
Track
Grease. The Chrysler part number for a .5 oz tube is 4680370. Check to
see
if your car had the recall work done. If not, then Chrysler will
replace the inoperative seat belts. (Wayne Toy)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Alexander V. Khrabrov (sa...@aquila.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: 2.2 TBI engine in my '88 Horizon--The engine runs too rich diring
: crank-up, and for some time after. A couple of times it even wouldn't
: start because of flooding. The overall gas mileage isn't bad however:
: 25-26 mpg (auto transm). The symptom is more likely to show up when
: the car is started hot, or with a cold engine, when the ambient
: temperature is warm. The condition got better after replacing the
: oxygen sensor, but hadn't gone completely.
mjbe...@mtu.edu (Mb) said:
Tune up the carb by changing the ratio, you should probably turn down
the fuel instead of turning up the air though. It will take alot of
time to get it right, but when you do you will see better overall
performance. I had that problem with my 86 Charger with 2.2L. After I
tuned up the carb, I drove to Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. with the air
condidtioning most of the way and I pulled off 33mpg!!!!!
Jesse Oliver said:
My sister had the same problem with a 2.2 Shadow. Finally we just
unhooked the wire to the injector and put a toggle switch in the line.
Every time the car wouldn't start, usually dead of winter in high winds,
she would pop the hood, flip the switch and the car would clean itself
out, then flip the switch back on and she was off and running. We owned
the car for 2 years after installing the switch and used it 5 or 6 times
a winter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Tach probs:
Tom (t...@po.cwru.edu) sez:
I've come across a number of Lasers/Daytonas with broken tachometers. If
it appears that the tach works sometimes, and tends to skip when you hit
a bump, the problem most likely is the computer chip that processes the
signal. This chip clips onto the top rear of the dash cluster unit. It
runs about $45. I don't think the chip actually breaks, but the
contacts don't maintain constant contact.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. LH headlights:
Early headlights were not very bright. The lens was upgraded sometime in
1994, so 95 models should be OK. Some dealers will replace the lenses
for free on older models. Some may not. You can order new lenses or just
keep trying dealers. The TSB is 08-38-94.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Heater problems:
From: (Jim Van Damme) vand...@lonex.rl.af.mil
I had a wimpy heater in my Lancer. Then I took off some ducts to see
inside it ... The temperature regulator door doesn't seal well when
in the HOT position, allowing a little bit of cold (in my case, -10C)
air to bypass the heater core. I stuffed a 4-5 mm by 12 cm piece of foam
in there, closed the temperature door on it to make a seal, and unhooked
the cable from it (until March) so it would be held in by the door.
If your radiator cap leaks or the hose to the CRS bottle
leaks the vacuum will be lost and it won't suck the juice back in. Blow
on the bottle to see. Gross but might work. You could also have a blown
head gasket that continually blows a little combustion gas into the
coolant but let's not think about that.
Dennis Lippert notes: The temperature gauge will swing back and forth
until the entire system is warmed fully. This is because you keep
introducing "cold" coolant from the radiator into the engine, rapidly
cooling it. WHen the temp falls enough, the thermostat closes, and the
temp goes back up, repeating the cycle. This is due to a valve which
lets you get heat before the thermostat opens up. Normally, the engine
"keeps the heat to itself" until the thermostat opens... releasing hot
coolant to the radiator and heater. In the mid-80's, Chrysler started
to use the bypass system... keeping the warm coolant in the engine *and
heater* when the thermostat was closed.
Peter Galambos related: Regular coolant flush helped me to get some
heat, but didn't fix it... When I first got the Voyager, large chunks of
paint fell off the engine block due to surface rust. Since the coolant
looked fine, I didn't think there was internal rust. I guess I was
wrong, because the heater core became plugged. Fixed by flushing the
system with oxalic(sp?) acid (i.e. Prestone Super Flush). Nasty stuff,
comes in powder form, keep away from skin, eyes and lungs, must be
followed up with neutralizer flush. The stuff drained out DARK brown,
and now the heater works great and the engine temperature changes much
less dramatically. Since the primary coolant flow is through the heater
core when the thermostat is closed, the restriction may have been
causing the engine to heat up faster than thermostat could respond.
Since I replaced the thermostat at the same time I flushed the system,
I'll never know for sure...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Caravan/Voyager stuck doors:
From: michael....@mercury.msfc.nasa.gov (Mike Stallcup)
> I had the [Grand Caravan] door open and I slid it closed, only I didn't
> push it very hard and it did not close all of the way. I pushed against
> the door to make it 'snap' into place, but it wouldn't close, so I decided
> to slide the door open all of the way and then close it with more force.
> The problem is, the door wouldn't open! I tried opening it from both the
> outside and the inside, no luck. I made sure the door was unlocked,
> although the van has power locks, I was wondering if one of them was stuck
> in a locked position internally (I locked and unlocked the power locks
> several times). Just for the heck of it, I tried once more to open the
> door. Sure enough, the door opened right away, with very little effort!
We had the same problem on a '87 Caravan. First, the interior trim panel
is held to the sliding door with spring clips which seem to get tired
over the years. Sometimes when you shut the door it pops loose at the
back of the door and jams the door from opening. Crawl in from the
front, push the trim panel back onto the door and try to open it.
I also found that if I stood outside, reached inside past the front
passenger seat and grabbed the inside sliding door handle, then held the
outside sliding door handle, I could pull the door closed enough to
release the latch and open the door.
I think the second factor was that the roller on the track at the
top/inside of the door was out of alignment. Over the years the bolts
had loosened and the door was not closing tight (the power door locks
did not work on the sliding door - another clue because the two metal
contacts in the door jamb were not aligning properly). Remove the trim
cover on the top roller bracket and tighten/readjust the bolts. You may
have to try several times until you get them at the right setting. I
used some Locktite thread locker. Haven't had any problems since then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover gaskets:
Around 1987, Chrysler switched from using a gasket to using RTV sealant,
which wasn't great but was better than the gasket. In 1994, they
switched to a 1 piece valve cover from a 3 piece cover, according to a
technical rep. The rep was not sure as to whether the new cover could be
retrofitted to the older engines, but it seems likely.
This is a known problem but half the polled customer service reps were
honest about it; the situation calls for great assertiveness. Keep
checking your engine, especially around the spark plug area, for seeping
oil. Ask that your engine be cleaned every time the dealer fixes the
seepage. If your car is out of warranty, try to have the seepage fixed
anyway by insisting that it *is* a known problem and that is why they
have technical advisories on it. I personally have been unable to find
the TSB, which makes me suspicious.
I think that all owners of seeping engines should write to CC
immediately and demand that something be done.
BTW this is not an urgent problem, just a very annoying one that they
should have addressed long ago. I estimate leakage to be less than 1/2
quart over 6,000 miles of moderately hard driving.
Now, solutions for do-it-yourselfers (out of warranty folk):
Paul F. Schikora said: Went to NAPA and got a gasket set and a bottle
of gasket goo (orange colored stuff). Took my time cleaning the
surfaces completely and applied the gasket & goo per instructions. No
more leak. (Did this over this past summer). However, I'm sorry I
didn't take the time to reseal the PCV connection cover. It's always
bled quite a bit of oil into the valve and air filter. (Note: this was
for 1987 model, which had a gasket).
Dietrich Schellenberg says: Clean all the surfaces so they are
completely free of oil(Loctite Clean & Cure Primer is a good cleaner)
put a bead of *high temperature* silicone around then place the valve
cover on. Put in all the bolts and tighten very lightly, You want about
1/8" thickness of silicone left between the cover and head. Let dry over
night(24 Hrs) and then tighten the bolts to spec [usually very
lightly!]. They may be hard to remove if you ever have to but they will
not leak.
JoDee McKenney says: From my own engine rebuilding experience, I'd use
the gaskets and the high temp silicone on each of the metal surfaces.
This allows a way to seal the parts together and still get them apart
later.
George Young notes: My '86 Reliant with 2.5 litre EFI has this
"gasket-in-a-tube" compound instead of a real gasket. It has always
leaked. Perhaps the dealer's shop
does not know about the "apply, connect loosely, _WAIT_ and then
tighten" method? For any work I had done to the gasket I was always sent
home same day and never asked to come back next day for a torque down.
[Dave's experience: the dealer only takes 1/2 hour for this repair.]
Slant-Six Daniel Stern warns: DO NOT DO THIS on an engine with
mechanical lifters (i.e G/RG engines and early V8s) because there will
be hell to pay when it comes time to adjust the tappet clearance.
Ron Gallerie asks, What about the ends on the 4 cyl. engines (2.2L,
2.5L) which already have the rubber "gasket"? I've always suspected the
joint between the rubber end gaskets and the cork gasket as being the
probable cause of my oil leaks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Check Engine light goes on:
1. This may be due to the need for a periodic service.
2. It may be the oxygen sensor (Steve Sheldon <she...@iastate.edu>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Engine runs rough - computer shows code 13
From: jiz...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Jizhong Wang)
I won't entirely trust the computer fault codes. I have a 84 Dodge 600
ES. A couple of months ago the car stalled ocasionally with the "Power
Loss" light on. My computer said it was MAP sensor vacuum circuit (code
13). I got a hand air vacuum pump and checked MAP sensor and hoses. I
took the car to a dealer and told my computer was faulty - didn't
replace it. Later I found a 6-way connector was loose. It was AIS motor
and TPS sensor connector, nothing to do with MAP sensor. I can easily
reproduce fault code 13 by
1). start engine;
2) make a loose connection of the 6-way connnector by shaking;
3) engine stalls or almost stalls;
4) check computer fault code. Code 13 and only Code 13 shows up. Based
on those, I suggest you check the connections and vacuum leaks before
you replace MAP sensor. BTW, my MAP sensor is accessable under dash of
passager side, inside the car. It is two inchs above ECM.
(t...@po.cwru.edu <Thomas Z. Zeeb> adds: on Caravan/Voyager, it is
located under the hood and screwed into the firewall, just off center to
the left, kind of above and behind the belts. It has one vacuum hose
and one three-node electrical connector attached to it. They range from
$70 -$100 US at the dealer. Sometimes if the MAP is shot, the engine
will shut down after starting. Try disconnecting the MAP, the engine
will then run (rough) in some models.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. Backfiring
[from: al...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Glen Larche)] [In reply to someone who
was told by the dealer that their backfiring was caused by a damaged
airpump check valve or aspirator valve...the backfire only occurs when
driving at high speeds and then suddenly letting up on the gas]. Sounds
like you probably have a bad divertor valve (or one of its controls). It
should *stop* air from being pumped into the exhaust during
deceleration. Normally it pumps air into the exhaust to help burn off
any unburned fuel. During deceleration there is a noticable backfire if
it continues to pump air into the exhaust. Follow the large hose from
the air pump, you should come to a valve with 3 hoses the same size (one
from the pump, one to the valve you say they replace and to other
possibly to the air filter ) There should also be a smaller vacuum line
to this unit. Make sure the unit's diaphram is good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
Problem: under acceleration, air comes through the defroster vents
instead of the vents it's supposed to come through. Reason: a valve that
sits in a vacuum line went bad. That valve leads to a vacuum reserve
tank, and the tank either wasn't forming a vacuum or the vacuum in the
tank couldn't get out. (The reserve tank may also have gone bad, or
there may be a leak in the system). (Lloyd R. Parker)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. More MAP stuff
[From: boh...@usgp1.ih.att.com (-Bodnar,B.L.)] Here's what the "MAP
sensor pneumatic circuit" code is, and how it is set. When the engine is
first cranked, the computer does two things with the MAP sensor:
1). Before the starter engages, the map reading is taken and stored as
the barometric pressure (BP) reading. All carbureted engine systems and
speed-density fuel injected systems without a separate BP sensor do
this.
Now, the Chrysler unique part:
2). When the engine is cranking, the computer looks for a DROP in
manifold pressure IF the throttle position sensor indicates closed
throttle. If there is no pressure drop, then the MAP pneumatic circuit
is clearly faulty. This is the ONLY time the fault code can be set. If
this fault code is set, the computer will switch to a default MAP
reading (stored in ROM) and use this to allow the vehicle to be driven.
Things which can cause this fault code to be set:
1). On MAP sensors mounted in the logic module: ice buildup in the
vacuum hose going from the throttle body to the MAP sensor (there was a
TSB out on this).
2). Loose vacuum hose going to the MAP sensor.
3). Major air leak (on speed-density controlled engines, a moderately
sized air leak will result in an increase in idle rpm -- this is
because the MAP is the prime indicator of engine load). (Bohdan Bodnar)
Glen Larche adds:
Relocation kit available for these. Some had problems at freezing
temperatures. Rough cold idle and stall. Seems condensation in the hose
would freeze.
Kit for turbo vehicles- 4419402
Kit for EFI vehicles- 4419401
Both should be available from your Chrysler dealer. Purpose- relocate
MAP sensor under the hood, right hand side strut tower.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. Hard to shift into reverse (manual transmissions)
fran...@munch.lkg.dec.com sez this problem is common to cars which have
synchronized forward gears, but nonsynchronized reverse gears. The trick
is to shift into a forward gear before going into reverse. Or wait a few
moments before shifting into reverse, after hitting the clutch, so the
engine shaft stops spinning.
- valiant notes that the CC five-speed in many cars was modified in 1993
or thereabouts to make getting into reverse easier. THe teeth were set
at an angle for easier engagement (info from the press books).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. 2.5 liter knock/idle
Some cars may have a cold engine knock a few seconds after startup,
lasting about 3-5 minutes -- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounsd
like valve lifter or tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder.
Usually disappears when the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the Powertrain Control
Module (the computer). (<valiant>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
There is a check valve to correct washer nozzle freeze ups (which CC may
not acknowledge). (Jim Hoare)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Cylinder head or oil pan gasket leaks
Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide: "Owners of 1989-93 models report that cylinder
head and oil pan gaskets are prone to leaking."
Under "Secret warranties/service tips/recalls":
"1990-91 - Owners can get a new cylinder head gasket cover on models
equipped
with 2.2L and 2.5L engines under a safety recall campaign." (Jim Hoare)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. Speedometer doesn't work
There is a TSB out on this problem. It happens most frequently with the
Shadow/Sundance, it seems. Take it to your dealer, they should fix it
for free. The TSB was issued in 1994.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
21. ABS jerky
Also shows up on diagnostics test by the dealer. Reprogramming the PCM
fixes the brakes. (Dealer must do this). -- from s...@mtispan.mt.att.com
(Steve Chu)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
22. Transmission jerky / downshifts abruptly
"Tranny downshift from 3 to 2 in an extremely abrupt motion...if the van
slows to less than 10 mph and gas is applied, tranny jerks and makes a
metal pinging noise."
FIX: Replacement and reprogramming of the controller; and fluid change.
There is a TSB on this problem, so you must take it to your dealer ASAP
and have it fixed... you may have to argue to get it done (it's not a
recall). Steve Chu seays: "I drove the van this morning and I must say
the jerk went away! I can't even feel any downshifting at all!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB on this, but the
dealer said "you have to complain LOUDLY. The service guy called it the
'post shift bang' "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
24. Brake rotor warping - PREVENTION
The dealers have received a bulletin saying that if cars come in with
less than 30,000 miles with worn out brake pads and rotors in need of
turning they are to do it under warranty. (Mary Bucy)
The dealer told me this is a known problem (LH) and replaced them with
heaver
duty rotors. There is two TSB's from JUNE 94 that deal with front brake
rotors. (David Pothier)
Lug nuts. If they are over-tightened with those air guns set on max.
pressure, it places far too much stress on the rotors resulting in
warpage soon thereafter. To remedy this I always go over each lug with
a torque wrench set at 90 ft lbs. Haven't had any problems since. (Ted
Ruscha)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
25. Oil leak from manual transmission
(from Val...@mordor.com) This applies to all cars and minivans with the
manual trans A-523, A-543, and A-568 (most of them). The TSB (21-24-93)
says that "vehicles that are in the dealership for any other reason
should also be inspected for this leak condition." What is replaced is a
remote vent assembly in place of the existing lock pin, and a new
linkage adjusting procedure for future service. It should take about 20
minutes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts
I noted that TSB 21-16-93 covers "harsh 2-1 downshift" on the 41TE
transaxle, the four-speed auto in most CC cars (including Shadow,
Imperial, minivans). Years affected were 1989-1992. The change is
replacing the transmission control module. NOTE that this is only for
cars with the 3.3, 3.8, or 3.0 liter engine and 4-speed auto.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
27. Rough idle - 2.2/2.5 liter
Engine idled erratically when warm, sometimes lost power after first
response when accelerator pressed about 1/3-1/4 down. Dealer first
adjusted venting at gas tank, seemed to help the idle. Then cleaned and
sealed the battery connector, solving the problem; was probably bad
battery connection causing system voltage fluctuation, which caused
changes in the controls. (Mustafa Soysal) (edited)
My car died slowing down...I disconnected my EGR backpressure transducer
from the vacuum lead. Now my car is a little bit more stable at idle,
better gas mileage, most likely can't pass emisions. (Jeffrey Paul
Chojnacki) - note: others warned against disconnecting EGR; there may
have been a leak in the EGR system.
My 2.5 liter has had a rough warm idle for about a year (it is 2 years
old). Turns out the timing was off by 2 degrees, retarded. Within spec
(+/- 2 degrees) but enough to roughen the idle. *Easy* to check compared
with some other cars. (Dave)
Disconnect the coolant temperature sensor's connector, spray connector
and
CTS's pins with television tuner cleaner, and see whether the problem
goes
away (for a while). My 1986 Le Baron engine's CTS's connections had
corrosion on them (a scan tool showed that it took a long time to reach
180F and that it NEVER went above 180F during highway driving); I opted
to replace the CTS and connector. Voila'! weird cold start problems
went away and fuel efficiency improved. No fault codes were ever set.
If you have hot restart problems which disappear after 10 seconds
of engine running, use TV tuner cleaner on the throttle body's
temperature
sensor's connector and see if the situation improves. (Bohdan Bodnar)
Rough idle warm or cold, TBI: EGR valve may be stuck open or rusted
off.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
28. Idle speed increases/engine races:
See LONG STORY at bottom of this FAQ.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
29. Smoky exhaust
From: m...@metronet.com (Mo Brooks)
Smoke Color / Reason
Black = Too much fuel (probably bad sensor or dirty air cleaner)
Blue = Oil
White = Water
Black smoke on acceleration in early 2.2l engines may come from the fuel
pressure regulator vacuum hose at the elbow; may be a bad injector; or
may be duel to high fuel pressure. You may want to check for
restrictions in the fuel return line.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running
I've got an 87 Sundance w/ 2.2L which has 130k miles and runs great.
But occasionally it
runs like you describe above, and it turned out to be the MAP sensor.
The part is a $20 item and is located on the passenger-side fender
well;
real easy to change yourself. The first time the MAP sensor went bad,
it didn't show up on the dealer's computer, but the engine light was
lit. Other times it just ran like hell w/ no indicators. (Phil
McClay)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
31. Stalling / not starting
From: devo@gonix (Aaron): My LeBaron GTS turbo had this problem. The car
would drive okay, then just DIE for no reason at all. The tachometer
would drop then pop back up, then it would run for a few seconds and
die. Then I could not get it started for a day or so. Then it started,
drove for about 10 minutes, died. It was a bad firing coil.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch
From tdr...@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Tim Drake - E81): [the trunk in my] 87
Sundance leaked like mad. When I first found the problem I had about 6
inches of water in the wheel well. It took me years to discover the
water was comming from the hatchback down through the lights. To fix it
I took the lights cover off and treated the gaskets (probably did
nothing) and I drilled small holes in the bottom of the light covers,
so the water could leak out the bottom. It's been bone dry ever since.
We should hit 100K this next weekend.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)
In cold weather, some vehicles with the 2.6 liter 4-cylinder engine may
have severe power loss (e.g. after running about 20 minutes between 60
and 65 mph). If one steps on the gas, black smoke may come out of the
tailpipe. Shutting off the engine for a minute and then restarting helps
temporarily. The solution (from Dave Witte): A de-icing kit to heat the
intake air enough to prevent freezing. SOME engines had this kit at the
factory, but may need a replacement part. The kit is not expensive.
---
Maybe someone has covered this already, but did you check the
carburetor air heater? My '83 FWD car manual shows that the
2.6L did have one. The tube that comes up from the exhaust
manifold, will, of course, be on the back side of the engine,
and therefore hard to reach. If it is torn or missing, it
should be replaced. Also, when the engine is cold, make sure
that the vacuum actuator in the air horn leading to the air
cleaner housing is working. In cold weather, with the engine
cold, it should redirect all of the air flow through the stove
on the exhaust manifold. (Jeff Wieland)
---
The problem was freezing of the carb. and the answer was to moved the
hose that feeds outside air to the air filter compartment and position
it somehwere to the rear of the engine. This prevents the outside cold
air from making its way over to the carb.(Ken)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
34. Gas gauge acts funny
From: M.R...@ens.gu.edu.au (Maurice H. Rich) - re gas gauge that bounces
all the time on an 89 Wrangler.
I had a similar problem with my '76 VK Valiant wagon. The fuel gauge
pickup is simply a wire wound resistor with a little arm that moves
across it, and this arm is attached to the float. What happens over time
is that the wire wears very thin and eventually breaks. My gauge would
be alright until the float reached the half way point, then it would
bounce all over the place until the level fell way below half. This is
because the voltage (or other signal) coming from the pickup, simply
disappeared momentarily, and the gauge followed. I suggest you get one
from the wreckers, and if it's in good condition, it should be a simple
matter to fit it. My gauge pickup (not an American truck, by the way),
is held in place by
a circular collar, which has to be turned about 90 degrees to loosen it,
and then the assembly comes out of the tank. Just remove the wire/s
connected to it, and fit the new one, which is a reversal of removal.
I've just encountered the problem you describe in a 1992 Plymouth
Voyager.
I traced the problem to the sending unit. It seems that Chrysler Corp.
uses a printed circuit rheostat which can short out, indicating a
partial tank when the tank may actually be full. It's a pretty simple
fix, and the part really is'nt all that expensive. I don't think it's a
bad float, on account of the tank would read empty
in all situations. (Robert Sherman)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
35. Engine sometimes dies.
My old 1986 LeBaron GTS did exactly the same thing. It turned out
to be a defective Hall-Effect pickup. (Michael M. Knox)
(Also check the automatic cutoff solenoid)
>I have an 89 Dodge Spirit w/ 93,000 miles. Every once in a while
>it just flat dies. But if I unplug the MAP
>sensor, the car will run. The MAP
>sensor has been changed, and the computer has been changed, and
>no fault codes show up on the analyzer.
You must be dealing with incompetent mechanics...
1). Hook a scan tool to the computer and set it to capture snapshots
of the data the computer sees.
2). When the problem occurs, the driver (or whoever is operating the
tool) informs the scan tool of this. The tool will now mark the
captured data frame as the "trouble frame."
3). Unload the data from the scan tool -- the frames before the
"trouble
frame" show what the computer saw before the problem occurred, the
"trouble frame" shows what the computer saw when the trouble
occurred,
and the subsequent frames show what the computer saw after the
trouble
occurred.
Disconnecting the MAP sensor merely causes the computer to substitute
a
default value in its memory for the MAP reading and to ignore this
sensor's output. You can achieve the same by disconnecting the vacuum
hose to the sensor with the engine off and then starting the engine.
The computer won't see a change in MAP while cranking, will set the
MAP
circuit fault code, and then ignore the MAP sensor. -- Bohdan Bodnar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
36. Control/status panel acting funny
There is a way for the Control Panel to test itslef to see if it can
find any internal faults. You should be able to start this test by
hoding down the trip and trip reset buttons, turning ignition to on
and
then release the buttons. Then press the US/Met button and read what
is
displayed by the speedometer. Press the US/Met button again and you
should see a six displayed. This will probably come up OK since your
problem seems to be related to information the panel is receiving.
However anytime you can easily narrow down the problem it is usually
worth it. Also check the codes stored in the engine computer (turn
the
ignition on-off-on-off-on and count the number of time the power loss
or
check engine light flashes) -- st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Matt
Rowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems
Problem: 1992 Dakota 4x4 with Magnum V-6. Engine faltering badly
sometimes when cold, sometimes when hot. On cold starts, the engine
will sometimes act as
though it's getting gas only at idle, won't accelerate. Sometimes this
happens right when I start off, sometimes not untill I get 1/4 mile to
several miles down the road. It will cough and sputter awhile, then
"catch" and take off, running fine from then on. Other times, it will
"skip a beat or two" at speed, under mild acceleration. At other times,
when I have been driving a long time, when I come to a stop, it will
stall repeatedly and have some difficulty restarting but pretty much run
O.K. Other times, after driving for an hour or two, it will start to
run badly at high speeds, particularly when climbing a grade.
Possible solutions (David Wright): I have heard of several people
getting Magnum engines with the distributor "mis-phased", causing
intermittent missing. It's possible that this is what's happening to
you. Another thing would be to check that the EGR valve isn't sticking
open.
Jerald Barker adds: Had similar problems- -replacing back pressure
transducer and EGR valve fixed them. The Back Pressure Transducer lies
next to the EGR valve just above the left valve cover.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
38. Temperature gauge problems
Robert Rowe: Try grounding the wire coming of the sending unit
momentarily while the enging is warm or hot. If the gauge moves upward
toward the correct temp, the sender is at fault. Do not ground for a
long period of time as this can damage the gauge. Incidentaly, the
ignition must be turned on for this test. Hope this helps.
Peter Galambos: Temperature gauge would suddenly jump to 3/4 or almost
full scale for a few seconds and then drop back to center. I hooked a
voltmeter to the temperature sender input to the body computer and
actually saw nice linear voltage swings. It appears
that the gauge is designed to go super non-linear above a certain
temperature. I disconnected the radiator fan long enough to verify that
it was thermostat cycling causing the temperature swing and replaced the
thermostat and antifreeze.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
39. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow
Snow and rain spray blew in through the grille, through the opening
where the air conditioner lines go. That moisture ended up directly on
the distributor and ignition wires. I put some pink fiberglass house
insulation in the gap around the AC lines, just jammed it in, and have
not had that problem since then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / poor temp regulation
Bars Leak has worked for some people to prevent head gasket replacement.
It's in a clear bottle and is black stuff with solid particles on bottom
of the jar.
Ross Gunn <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>My '86 Aires had a similar problem. After shutting off the engine, I
>could hear air (exhaust) bubbling back through the coolant overflow
>bottle. A new head gasket was the solution. The dealer estimated $500
for
>the job. I did the job myself for under $100.
This also happened in my car ('85 Omni). The clamp on the hose to the
overflow bottle wasn't tight enough; it had loosened during recent
pressure-checking of the cooling system. -- Louise Penberthy
I managed to trace a slow coolant leak to the point near the firewall
where rubber coolant hoses are clamped to the metal ends of the heater
core tubes. Tightening the clamps a few turns ended the problem. I
probably never would've discovered the culprit had I not noticed that
some tape around a nearby cable had an odd green-ish tint. -- Roger
Fradenburgh
>> I've just recently started having problems with my 88 lebaron running
>> hotter than normal.
The Le Baron probably has either the 2.2 liters or 2.5 liters engine.
The cooling systems in these engines *MUST* be purged of air before
operation; otherwise, coolant flow blockage will result (i.e., hot,
possibly REALLY hot, engine). Partial purging (experience here) will
cause the engine to run hotter than normal; the engine's temperature
will gradually drop to normal as the system purges itself over a
period
of several days/weeks. These engines' cooling systems can be purged
quite easily by parking the car on an incline (front much higher than
rear) and cycling the engine on/off until the thermostat opens and the
air is expelled into the radiator. The proper way is to use the bleed
screw in the thermostat's housing...on some engines (like my 2.5) this
screw is frozen in place because of lack of use; hence, the heat
soaking of the thermostat's housing. -- Bohdan Bodnar
Sometimes you can fry your brand new thermostat if you don't
burp it properly. I guess Bohdan knows more about the specifics
involved with LeBarons, but I would always just crank the heat,
leave the radiator cap off, and start the car to purge the
cooling system. If you run it until it warms up this way it
should be purged without waiting the week or so. -- Terry L. Howe
We just went through this with my neighbors 3.0L Voyager. He
complained
of white smoke in the exhaust, we found oil in the water and vice
versa.
The dealer told him approx 1,000$ to replace head gaskets. I told him
that if he was not in a big hurry, we could do the job ourselves.
While
we had the car apart (what a project) we replaced the head gsakets
(both) , timing belt, water pump, plugs & wires, etc. As we were in
there already and the parts weren't expensive. We laso replaced the
speedo cable as the best way to get at it was when the heads were off.
The good news is the new gaskets solved his problem, plus he has a lot
more power now than he had before. I have heard so many stories about
head gasket leaks on 3.0 L Mitsubishi engines that I think it is
common
problem. Oh yeah, even with all the other parts we put on, we spent
less than $300. -- ssmye...@aol.com
***
There may be a good reason why you and your acquaintances have had
problems
with blown head gaskets: failure to properly maintain the cooling
system.
If the cooling system is low on water, the highest parts of the engine
tend to overheat. Since the head is the highest part of a 2.2 L engine,
it will overheat if it is high and dry. Overheating can cause the head
to warp, and a warped head will allow the head gasket to blow out
through
the gaps left by the warping.
The Reliants all have temperature gauges (not idiot lights) and will
show
a very high reading within a few minutes of starting the engine IF it is
low on coolant.
Be sure that the cooling system is filled completely. Also, be sure
to drain, flush, and refill the cooling system as prescribed in the
owner's manual. If you don't do this yourself, be VERY sure that
whoever
refills the system gets it COMPLETELY filled. Inexperienced technicians
or people in a hurry will often leave air pockets in the head and/or the
heater. If the heater/defroster fan doesn't blow toasty warm when the
engine is hot, you are probably low on coolant.
It helps to park the car on a grade (front end high), turn the
heater temperature control up all the way, and idle the engine with the
radiator cap off. Then, fill the cooling system. [Use distilled water
- about fiftey cents a gallon from the supermarket] (Tom Johnson)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter
>After running for about 20 minutes the power drops out to the point
>where I have to pull over. If I am in "Park or Nuetral" and step on the
>gas peddle, black smoke comes from the tail pipe.
This is a really weird problem with 2.6L engined minivans ... what was
explained to me is that when you're driving, the airflow goes right
over the carburetor ... freezing it solid. Second you stop, engine
heat thaws it out (which is why you can stop, restart, and it seems a
lot better). I was told to put a metal shield in front of the carburetor
to help deflect wind around it and it worked just fine. -- Jonathan N.
Deitch
------------------------------------------------------------------------
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6
The reason why the older 3.0 heads smoke is because the exhaust
valve guides sink into the head. The usual repair is to remove both
cylinder heads, knock the guides back to their normal position, and have
snap rings installed onto the guides so that they don't sink again.
(Eric Eleazar, Dick Greenfield Dodge)
Double-check to make sure the leak isn't coming from the oil pressure
sending unit. You'll see it if you lie down and look around the
starter/oil filter area. A lot of 'em start leaking at about 75K or so.
It'll cost you around $20 to replace. Put a drip pan under it. Then,
gently back the old one out (threaded), and screw the new one in; don't
over-torque it, though. (Stan A. Bidlack)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)
2.5 liter, TBI: Intermittent engine hesitation under high speed driving
ONLY or under moderately high speed and heavy acceleration. The problem
NEVER occurs during moderate driving or heavy acceleration at low to
moderate speeds.
Chrysler had many problems with that TBI injector; there were a number
of recalls. I at one point, also being an ASE Master Tech, fought one
of those things for several days before finding the problem.
The brass pin you see from the top of the injector controls pintle
throw. It seems they didn't make it a tight enough fit. Eventually the
pin begins to back out and the ECM keeps shortening the injector pulse
to compensate for the change in mixture. The process can take several
months before it produces symptoms. After continued driving, the pin
backs out to a point that the ECM can no longer compensate for and you
get driveability problems. (do...@ix.netcom.com)
I would first check fuel pressure, its around 14.5 psi engine off (using
DRB in actuator test) I have also seen the distributor pick-up unit on
these cut out intermittently. When the computer loses the signal from
the distributor, it shuts fuel/spark off. Also in the distributor
itself there is a HALL-effect plate which tends to get loose. This
causes erratic signals too. One TSB involves re-locating the MAP
sensor from the logic module(right kick panel) to the right strut
tower. Water would sometimes condense in the MAP sensor vacuum line
and contaminate the sensor. EGR failures are also common. They
sometimes get stuck open and cause hesitation problems. Try
disconnecting the vacuum hose from the EGR valve. The car will
probably ping on acceleration, but hesitation should cease. The valve
is located on the driver's side end of the exhaust manifold. You may
have to remove the air cleaner housing to see it. Faulty TPS sensor
can cause this type of problem. It may have a "dead spot" (Eric
Eleazar)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration
(89 Aries, 2.5, after 1/2 hour car jerks, fine on short drives).
Well, I can tell you this much - I fought a similar problem for 18
months ... it would falter, stumble, hesitate, and basically do anything
but pull. The dealers (all 13 I went to) collectively replaced the map
sensor, crank sensor, cam sensor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, turbo
boost solenoid, egr valve, pcv valve, and just about every other
performance-related gadget on the whole freaking engine...I found a
dealer who knew something about what they worked on, and they fixed the
whole problem in under an hour. ALL this time, the plug wires had been
installed incorrectly, and were not providing a secure connection to the
spark plugs. The engine computer tried desperately to correct for it,
but couldn't...My advice to anyone who has problems with a Chrysler
product and keeps getting nothing but stupid computerized diagnostics
that say "there's nothing wrong!" when you know there is. Find a dealer
who actually has a brain cell or two and doesn't just plug in the magic
brain ... and will actually TEST the car. (jno...@usa.net)
Turned out to be the fuel filter (86 Aries 5-speed, 2.2).(Dave)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake
There is a curtain in the valve
cover which should prevent most oil from being blown out the
breather. Any oil in mist form should stay in mist and be
captured by the air filter.
I had a problem where someone replaced my leaking valve cover gasket
and *forgot* to reinstall the curtain. I was blowing about a quart
every 500 miles.
The worst part was that it *looked* like my rings were blown.
You would step on it on the freeway, oil would pump out the breather,
go down the air heater hose and burn on the exhaust manifold producing
copious amounts of oil smoke. (Thomas Lee Grice)
This is often just from a stuck PCV valve. If it is, chances are it's
leaking down to the air filter (and the air intake pipe) from a black
hose which comes up to the air horn (2.2/2.5 engines).
Mike Frye, Mopar service mechanic at my local dealer, figured this one
out instantly. In the 2.5 (probably 2.2 as well) engine, oil can get
sucked into the PCV system unless a baffle plate is installed. He did
this and it worked. He said there was a TSB on this, but I searched
Alldata and didn't find it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
47. Hesitation (also covered elsewhere)
Problem: 2.5 l engine hesitates/sputters/lurches for a second now and
then under normal driving conditions (highway, cruising, foot steady on
gas). Reason: plug wires were going bad. (Paul F. Schikora )
Problem: hesitation/lurching. Solution: fouled plugs. Oil fouled plugs
may indicate serious problems or just bad PCV valve.
Problem: 3.0 V-6 bogging on acceleration. Solution: clean the throttle
body if it has gumming or varnish. You may have to clean the throttle
plate edges with Scotch Bright pads and clean the bore using a good
carburetor spray solvent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
48. 3.9 liter (pre-1993) common problem - PREVENT IT
My 1992 Dakota 3.9L needed a new timing chain and gears
at 49,000 miles. This was originally diagnosed as "mis-phased"
distributer, and "fixed" to some degree. The symptoms returned
and eventually the dealer replaced the timing chain and gear set.
...
According to one of the service managers, the 1992 Magnums had a
"single roller" roller chain. The 93+ engines have the more typical
double roller. This may be a common problem for the pre-93s.
The misfiring had been happening sometimes on upshifts, but worsened as
performance sagged. The misfiring occurs when the rotor gets enough out
of phase that the spark gets fed to the wrong cylinder. The system on
this engine gets the crankshaft position information from the flywheel,
so ignition timing is not changed by this problem, valve timing *is*,
and distributer rotor "phase" is. This makes the problem somewhat
insidious.
My advice is to get it fixed SOON. I am not certain how to convince a
dealer
that this problem is real, or that the timing chain / gears are the
issue.
Perhaps someone in this group can find a TSB that references this topic.
My dealer alluded to info from Chrysler on this problem. (Ron Luse)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
49. Turbo cuts out/power limited/power loss light
Under hard acceleration, the engine would cut out, rock like hell and
the check engine light would come on (until I released the pedal). (2.2
turbo) It turned out to be a disconnected vacuum hose to the wastegate
assembly. You might want to check this out before you spend any more
money. (Ralph J. Zottola)
Check the vacuum hose to the wastegate. If the wastegate is not
opening,
the turbo will overboost, the the computer will cut the fuel. As the
RPM
decreases, the boost lowers and the fuel comes back on. (Mac Alan
Crossett)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
50. Jeep 4.0 EFI engine stalls at a stop (Jeep 4.0 stalling).
The problem is the flywheel sensor. This sensor tells the
computer the RPM, duration, etc. It is located by following the
wires from the along the firewall and along the bellhousing. These
sensors get worn out from debris and it also might be just the
wires going to it. I had the same problem and took it to a dealer
and they couldn't figure it out either. (Ken Talley)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
51. Car just quits.
Could be battery misconnection, or the shutoff solenoid (a device
designed to make sure the engine does not diesel or start unexpectedly).
Also check 2.2 and 2.5 for distributor pickup - may intermittently fail
without showing fault codes.
.c.---------------------------------------------------------------------
---
52. ABS note
Many Chrysler minivans (and GM vans) have been afflicted with defective
Bendix ABS systems. These are under NHTSA investigation. If you have one
and Chrysler does not fix it for free, and you have exhausted teh steps
listed in Part 1 of this FAQ, then complain to NHTSA to aid in their
investigation. If you have access to the newsgroup, you will probably
see a number of posts by Charlene Blake describing this problem in great
detail and telling you how you can register with NHTSA.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
53. Code 52 on 86-87 2.2 engines
Check oxygen sensor, then remove the injector wiring cap and check the
color of the injector top cap; it it's black, the injector must be
replaced.
--------------------------------------------
54. 3.0 V-6 hesitation or bogging on acceleration
Check throttle body for gumming or varnish. You may have to clean the
throttle plate edges with Scotch Bright pads and clean the bore using a
good carburetor spray solvent.
--------------------------------------------
55. Service engine light goes on.
Service the engine. The light can be shut off with a special tool. There
is some controversy over whether disconnecting the battery will kill the
light. Some suggest removing the bulb.
--------------------------------------------
56. Cruise control problems
Many older cars used both a speed sensor and a speedo cable, so the
speed sensor could go with affecting the speedometer. Fault codes might
not appear if the speed sensor is giving an incorrect signal.
--------------------------------------------
57. Batter charging problems
Check the battery cables, then check the alternator with a test light
and/or a voltmeter or an alternator/charging system analyzer. There are
usually four connections on a Chrysler alternator, one large terminal
(power out), one ground, and two field control wires. To check the
field control wires, test both for voltage with the engine running. One
should show battery voltage, the other a reduced voltage. If both show
battery voltage, the problem could be in the computer (not providing a
ground for the second field circuit). If one has battery voltage and
the other shows a much reduced voltage, the computer probably is trying
to "full field" the alternator and therefore the alternator is probably
the problem. Check output voltage. If output voltage is extremely high
(20 volts or more) check the circuit from the output terminal to the
battery for an open. If the voltage is battery volts but not a
reasonable charging voltage and the fields seem correct, suspect the
alternator.
--------------------------------------------
==============================================================
************ Older Car Troubleshooting ************
C1. Won't start (val...@mordor.com <Dave>):
If the engine is dry and all was well before, check the ballast
resistor. It's a little white block attached to the firewall (the metal
between the engine and the driver), attached with a single bolt ands
connected to two electrical wires. It's incredibly easy to replace but
will eventually fail and prevent your car from starting. Should be under
$5.
If the starter makes a rapid clicking noise, your battery may be worn
down, even if you can use your headlights. You will need a jump start
from a car with a large engine and very good wires. Hint: get very good
jumper cables.
If the engine was wet, dry it, separate the wires, and try again, Use
silicone spray or "wire drier" or, better yet, replace your wires with
top of the line, name-brand, lifetime warranty, 8 mm wires. These will
probably improve your gas mileage and power as well.
SL6 Dan (das...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) adds: The thickness of the
insulation is not nearly so important as what is inside. You won't
necessarily improve your gas mileage or ignition reliability with 8mm
wires unless the old ones were REALLY bad. For daily drivers, the best
wire I've found is Whitaker's Multi-Mag. It comes in the same
configurations and colors and insulation materials as original, but uses
the well-proven spiral-wound construction that you find in wires such as
Accel and Jacobs. Much lower resistance, but no irritating radio noise.
They also have a lifetime guarantee and don't cost more than regular
(NAPA, etc.) carbon-string type wires. The Slant-6 wire set (32605 for
pre-75) even has the correct 1-piece moulded spark plug boots. Note,
these wires are also sold under the BorgWarner/BWD KoolWire trade name.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C2. Anything from pollution to loss of power (val...@mordor.com <Dave>)
This may be caused by leaking vacuum hoses or idiot mechanics
disconnecting your vacuum hoses. If you like to breathe, and you want
your car to perform well, replace all of the vacuum hose -- it costs
maybe 10 cents per foot, so don't be cheap. Just get a few yards and do
it one day (warning: you may need different kinds or sizes). Make sure
all vacuum hoses are straight and not kinked. On later cars, the
computer relies on vacuum; on earlier ones, the carb feedback and timing
depends on it. So make sure it works right. A good vacuum gauge doesn't
hurt, either.
Vacuum leaks caused by leaking hoses that look okay to the naked eye may
result in the following diagnoses by mechanics:
* Need new carburetor
* Need new transmission
* Need new engine
* Need valve job
* Need new mechanic.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C3. Stalling (val...@mordor.com <Dave>)
See the above section on vacuum hoses. Turning the cold or warm idle
screw on the carburetor is a quick fix that doesn't solve the root
problem. If the car stalls when cold, lubricate the choke well. If it
stalls when wet, try getting much better ignition wires (8 mm, lifetime
warranty, good brand, about $30). Also try the following interesting
quick fixes:
* Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the electronic
ignition module
* Spray the little wires with silicone spray or wire drier
* Check for vacuum leaks (see above).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C4. Windshield wipers won't work (val...@mordor.com):
Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the wiper motor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C5. Water leaks into the car:
A problem on many A-bodies (Valiant group). May be permanently solved by
(a) straightening out and emptying out the water exit hose, which drains
the cowl (the grille on top of the hood); and (b) keeping the cowl free
of leaves and gunk. This means occassionally raising the hood and
manually emptying the cowl opening. The little black tubes that carry
excess water out of there (2 of them) may be seen on the firewall (the
metal between the engine and the driver). Search for them. They're small
and behind other stuff. I might add that other makes, including Japanese
cars, also sometimes have this problem (as well as vacuum leaks).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C6. runs rough cold, seems to improve with heat
geo...@bnr.ca (George Young) suggests:
1) Not enough voltage from old damp coil to light cold mixture? - new
coil.
2) EGR valve plunger binding open?
- remove and plug manifold vacuum hose to EGR circuit.
3) Other vacuum hose split?
- replace all vac hoses.
val...@mordor.com adds: 1) Better wires, CC rotor/distributor cap for
best fit.
geo...@bnr.ca (George Young) adds: My old 318 ran rough when cold and
wet, would stall out until warm. Choke was the problem. Manifold
carboned up and wouldn't pass heat to choke coil thermostat. Changed to
manual choke and no more problem and increased gas mileage
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C7. Lean-Burn (computer-controlled carbureted engine) rough idle
boh...@usgp1.ih.att.com (-Bodnar,B.L.) writes: My recollection is that
this system controlled air/fuel mixture only. (318 Lean Burn)
1). Are your coolant temperature sensor connection ok? If not, the
computer will see a cold engine and will operate it in open loop (i.e.,
rich).
2). Are the oxygen sensor connections ok?
3). Is the heated air inlet operating correctly?
4). Vacuum leaks present? Check all vacuum hoses with a religious
fervor!
The leak's location many not even be obvious!
5). Carburetor problems: float low? valve seat damage? I doubt the
latter since it appears that the problem arose quite suddenly. The
following is something I've used on computer-controlled carbureted
engines many times: 1). Connect a high impedance dwell meter to the
mixture control solenoid, set the meter to the 6 cylinders scale, run
the engine around 2000 rpm until hot and see the dwell. If the a/f
mixture's ok, you'll see the dwell oscillating about 30 degrees. Low
dwell with oscillations => a/f mixture lean and running closed loop.
High dwell with oscillations => a/f mixture rich and running closed
loop. Dwell at or below 10 degrees => system stuck lean. Dwell at or
above 50 degrees => system stuck rich. The latter two extremes indicate
closed loop operation since open loop operation typical will show a
stable dwell reading between 20 and 30 degrees (usually, closer to 20).
Do not do this test at idle since some engines will be operated in open
loop at idle REGARDLESS of the coolant temperature sensor's output.
Incidently, I've just outlined the procedure for GM's "System
Performance Test" which is used on GM C3 carbureted engines.
*****************************FUNNY NOISES *********************
1. Herbert DaSilva <h...@swl.msd.ray.com> writes:
(Problem: Noise happens on left hand turns and some bumps. Was
originally chirping noise, but now more of a rumble. More frequent. Car:
1987 Shadow 2.2, five-speed, 110K miles.)
Isolate the problem with the following test:
- Select an off-ramp or empty parking lot where you can attain some
velocity while maintaining a left hand turn when the noise is evident.
- Clutch in or slip the tranny into neutral and pump the gas pedal to
rev the engine. If the noise does not change tone when the engine is
revved, the problem is in your driveline. If the noise changes tone
with the speed of the engine, the passenger side engine mount has
probably collapsed.
**
I think I had this problem too. It was a bad motor mount. I put in a
new CV joint before I found the real problem. (james eldridge)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Dakota creak
my truck had a loud "creak" while driving. I found that there is a
cover plate, between the converter and the truck body, directly under
the front drivers seat, that flexes under use. This causes a loud
noise. Once found, the fix was easy-stuff something between the plate
and the body. [Robert Duggan]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. 2.5 liter knock/idle
Some cars may have a cold engine knock a few seconds after startup,
lasting about 3-5 minutes -- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounsd
like valve lifter or tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder.
Usually disappears when the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the Powertrain Control
Module (the computer). (<valiant>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Snapping noise on start/stop
Noise comes from the left side of the engine while starting from or
coming to a stop. Noise more prevalent when engine comaprtment hot.
Diagnosis: With windows closed, trans in drive or first and parking
brake on, put a load onto the gas. Release the load and shift into
reverse. Listen for the noise as you apply a load in reverse. If you
can't hear it, drive at low speeds with several quick, but not hard,
acceleration/deceleration moves. Parts requried: left engine support.
Time: .6 hours (from TSB 09-02-93).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Daytona rattle
Christopher Sennett Homer sez: When you open the rear hatch you will
see
two black plastic screw things with rubber bushings on the bottom of
them, located at the rear corners on the hatch. When the hatch is
closed
it rests on these bushings, now if one, or both, of them are too short
then the hatch pivots on the latch and rattles, so just take some
pliers
and unscrew the plasic bushings a little to extend them. that should
clear up that hatch rattle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB on this, but
the
dealer said "you have to complain LOUDLY. The service guy called it
the
'post shift bang' "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Whining or whistling noises
(affects most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
Jim Zimmerman said TSB 21-40-93, affecting most FWD vehicles from 1989
to 1994, covers this. I did some research. This noise comes from the
transmission of the FWD cars and minivans, with automatic "transaxles
built with 3.02 or 3.22 final drive gear ratios. 1994 model year
vehicles must have a transaxle code prior to 1826 for this bulletin to
apply." This is a 7 hour job and replaces MANY parts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Rattle from back of car
val...@mordor.com (Dave) sez: The screws that hold the trim onto the
hatchback (eg. the extra brake light) tend to come loose and fall off.
They cost 22 cents, so get a couple of extras. I had to order them...P/N
to follow.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Rattles from engine compartment
On a 2.2, the big plastic hood covering the air cleaner lost a
hold-down
bolt, and now has a huge rubber band holding it down to keep it from
buzzing at some RPMs. The air injection tube into the catalytic
converter has a filter which used to buzz against the firewall VERY
LOUDLY until I relocated it.
These engines produce a lot of vibration, and there are a lot of hoses
and gismos nearly touching each other. Someone will have to poke her
head inside the engine compartment while an assistant revs up the
engine through the RPM's that it makes noise, and try to isolate the
noise producer. The safer way is to shut the engine off and see if
you
can rattle anything with your hand. Also, look for any broken hose or
wire brackets. (Jim Van Damme)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Misc rattles
On my Sundance (Shadow), *all* the plastic covers that go over the seat
belt mounts were squeaking or rattling. I sprayed them with white
lithium grease where they were attached and where the were scraping or
hitting other plastic parts. (Dave)
Also on my Sundance, I had several instrument panel noises. The mechanic
put foam on the back of the radio faceplate and other easily removable
bits of plastic, which helped somewhat but not completely. One odd place
was where the center console rubbed against the underside of the dash.
(I tightened the screws which hold the center console down and that may
have fixed it). (Dave)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)
Get this -- there is a spring under the gas pedal. One squirt with white
lithium grease (well, a dozen squirts) took care of this annoying noise.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
======
*********WHICH CARS ARE IN WHICH CATEGORY?**********
(this list is incomplete)
Modern: 600, Aries, Reliant, Duster, Sundance, Shadow, Spirit, Acclaim,
Daytona, Laser, Caravan, Voyager, Dakota, Ram, Charger, Turismo, O24,
Omni, Horizon, LeBaron, Ramcharger, Lancer, Stratus, Cirrus,
Intrepid, Concorde, Vision, Avenger, Breeze, Sebring, Avenger
(Neon stuff is *all* in the Neon FAQ, which is strongly recommended!)
Classic: Valiant, Swinger, Dart, Duster /6 & 8, Demon, Aspen, Volare,
Fury,
Monaco, Gran Fury, Diplomat, Charger /6 & 8, Cordoba, 300 (all letters),
Superbird, Roadrunner, Satellite, Challenger, DeSoto, Barracuda, 'Cuda,
Trailduster, Lancer /6 & 8, Polara, Belvedere, GTX, Charger Daytona,
Newport,
Magnum, Mirada, St. Regis, Newport, Super Bee, Li'l Red Express Truck
Some cars overlap. As a practical matter, trucks generally aren't
handled, though their powertrains may be.
Mitsubishi/Joint Venture: Colt, Arrow, Sapparo, Talon, Laser, l'il
Challenger (not covered by FAQ except for 2.6 liter engine)
Hillman Avenger: Plymouth Cricket (not covered by FAQ)
Query: Which names would you like to see revived? Send via-email. My own
favorites: Valiant, Fury, Duster, Roadrunner, and Reliant...but on cars
where they fit! (Wouldn't a turbo Neon be a perfect Roadrunner? Beep
beep!)
- Jeffrey J. Wieland adds: I want a Challenger! I want a Challenger!
They've got the perfect engine now, the Magnum 5.9L. Just like it was
the perfect engine for the Challeger back in 1974... It could be sort
of a mini-Viper...
******************* LONG STORY **********************
From psch...@indiana.edu (Paul F. Schikora)
I had the Dodge 2.2 Turbo I engine with a 3000 RPM idle problem. I
finally solved it and decided to post my findings. It turned out to be
the AIS after all. The AIS controls the idle speed by letting air
bypass the throttle plate. All it is is a valve that opens up to let
add'l air into the throttle body. It has a semi-circular opening, with
a semi-circular shutter that opens or closes to allow air to bypass the
throttle plate.
The shutter is designed to rotate 180 degrees, and then it hits a stop
to keep it from rotating any further. The shutter sits inside a
circular sleeve, and the sleeve is what's turned by the motor. The
sleeve holds the shutter snugly enough to turn it when it's free to
move, but the sleeve can continue to move when the shutter has stopped,
so the motor won't burn out accidently.
Not only is the shutter designed to rotate, it is spring loaded, so it
can be pressed down into the motor housing. Doing so makes a closed
shutter effectively useless, becasue air can bypass it. This is only
conjecture on my part, but I believe the spring is there to allow air
bypass even if the shutter is closed, *IF* there is enough of a pressure
differential in the throttle body to force the shutter down into the
housing and let air bypass it, perhaps to avoid other damage.
There is one flaw with this design -- when the shutter is depressed, it
is possible for it to be moved past its stops. If that happens, and the
shutter then pops back up, it gets locked 180 degrees out of phase.
When the computer tries to close it, it is actually opening it. It will
keep trying to close it until it opens full up, and then your idle is
racing at 3000 RPMs. The computer keeps trying to close the shutter,
but since it's wide open, there's not enough pressure differential to
force the shutter back down so it can again go past the stops into its
normal position.
This is apparently what happened to mine. For all I could tell, the
motor worked fine. Applying voltage to it opened and closed the
shutter, only I couldn't tell that it was out of phase, opening when it
should close and vice versa.
What compounded my problem was the fact that the shutter was gunked up
with carbon and sticking in the sleeve. So it got stuck down and stayed
there, allowing it to easily pass the stops. The computer didn't know
what was happening! Eventually, it popped out enough to lock into an
out of phase position. That's when the problem wouldn't go away. I
finally figured it out when I noticed a rattle in the motor, and that
the shutter was moving up & down slightly as I shook it. I was so fed
up at that point that I ignored the service manual advice to the
contrary, and took apart the AIS. No, I didn't ruin it -- it's a pretty
simple design. I cleaned the parts and got the shutter to where it
wasn't binding in the sleeve anymore. I then reassembled it (praying I
had it in phase, which I did) and everything was fine (if it still
raced, I would have taken it apart and reassembled 180 degrees around).
After "fixing" the problem, I went for a test drive. Everything was OK
for a few minutes, but then the damn racing returned !#%*#@! Back to
the garage where I found the following (warning -- more conjecture
coming). In the top of the throttle body, there are two add'l ways for
a air to bypass the throttle plate. One is an orifice which is
controlled by a set screw (idel set screw?). A while back I was fooling
around and apparently had closed off the orifice -- some carbon gunking
didn't help either. Running the engine at various speeds created the
pressure differential needed (which couldn't be compensated for by the
closed off orifice), and the AIS shutter passed its stops again. I
backed the screw off, re-fixed the AIS, and got the engine running
again. I then sprayed some carb cleaner into that orifice. No problems
since then -- what a pleasure to have a properly functioning vehicle
again! The second air bypass is a small hole in the side of the throttle
opening just above the plate. It had some carbon buildup too, so I
sprayed it out as well. (Yes, I know, I should use throttle body
cleaner. I just didn't have any handy.)
******************
45. Turbo engine cutout/power loss//driveability
DRIVEABILITY STORY
I have an '85 Omni GLH Turbo, and last weekend decided to spend my
annual ritual of eliminating driveability problems. The most irritating
was the engine cutting out under hard acceleration, virtually breaking
motor mounts. The second problem, I've been loosing acceleration, about
10%, though I generally keep the car tuned.
The first problem, the engine cutting out syndrome, baffled me. I
only could think of the worst, severe engine wear, since there is
156K on the motor. Specifically, the engine tended to buck when
accelerating after entering the freeway. One of the systems I lacked
knowledge, was the barometric reed solenoid. Most the information I
came across just said that the computer read the atmospheric pressure
occasionally. I read all technical info. I could at the library, and
finally came across a description in the Chrysler shop manual. The
point that struck me is that the barametric reed solenoid is in line
with the MAP sensor. I thought there was another sensor somewhere I
didn't know about. It goes onto say that the computer reads the
atmospheric pressure at a specified rpm (no doubt low rpm, when
there is a vacuum in the intake manifold, so why not read the
atmospheric pressure for added information that might allow for
tailoring fuel/air mixture and turbo boost levels), when the
accelerator is closed (I guess not depressed), and no more than
every 30 seconds. Another symptom of the engine bucking, is that
it only occured after I started accelerating again, it would
occur about that same time, same speed, and same frequency (it
would happen twice), then go away.
Now I was onto something. A few years back, I had a severe cold start
up problem. First, it would hardly start, then the motor would idle
at 3K rpm, for a few minutes. Then, things returned to normal. I
took it to the dealer, they did work recommended in a TSB, they added
the external MAP sensor kit. I found out the next cold snap (-15)
that didn't fix the problem. Brought it back, they finally found
a crack in a vacuum line, which sucked in water, which froze...
Anyway, after learning about the reed solenoid function, I immediately
inspected this MAP sensor circuit. Low and behold, with my new
knowledge, I immediately noticed that the MAP sensor was hooked to
the solenoid, and the other ends connected back to the computer
(expected) and to another vacuum line (not expected). I would
expect the third port of the solenoid to be unconnected, so when
the solenoid is grounded, the MAP sensor would read atmospheric
pressure. Instead, it was sucking on this mysterous vacuum line.
It turns out it went only about 1ft, and was capped. When I got
home, I tested it for holding vacuum, and it did. The bucking
hasn't returned.
BTW - I still don't understanding the bucking phenominon, was the
turbo over-boosting? I didn't get any weird error messages.
Well I still couldn't beat an old 0-60 benchmark of 8 sec. Something
was still wrong. I re-checked compression, 115 lb+. No vacuum
leaks, EGR works, new cap/roter/plugs/air filter/fuel filter, un-
plugged cat/exhaust (had this tested - btw, the original exhaust,
MN salt has not eroded the stainless yet!). The only error code
I'm aware of is some fault with the EGR solenoid (I had previously
looked at this, I checked everything, vacuum lines, new back
pressure transducer - another story, but concluded the computer is
confused). So I researched where the heck the charge air sensor was.
The theory being that I knew the plugs looked light grey/brown (perfect
according to charts, but when the car was new, the plugs would always
look black/sooting, from a rich mixture). One would assume if the
computer thought the air was warmer than it really was, that
it would lean the fuel/air mixture some, and perhaps alter the
turbo boost curve.
On the GLH, it is located on top of the intake manifold, right
next to the detonation sensor. It is a "2-way" sensor that screws
in. I belive it is identical to the coolant sensor. I unscrewed
it, and it was filthy. It also was bubbling on top, looked as
though it was melting at some point. Lots of heat sneaks up that
path, since the exhaust manifold is right below it.
I found Napa sells one for $17, is called out for all other c-cars
other than Omni's. I bought one. This looked like a better
sensor - it was mostly brass. The stock unit was plastic. I had
trouble screwing the new one in, I don't think it got mis-threaded,
I'm not leaking fuel anyway.
Net result - seems like boost comes on quicker, and I have more
acceleration. I suspect I'm back to where I was several years ago,
will have to verify when I get the chance. I also noticed that
when the engine is cold, rpm's stay up longer. Another driveability
problem went away - the tendancy to stall after going out of gear
while still moving.
Conclusion - another example that Dodge Sevice technicians can't
read pictures, and sensors can change calibration enough to affect
driveability/performace, yet not trigger an error on the diagnostic
computer (read this soft-head auto firmware engineers). Since my
computer is no longer capable of driving the power loss lamp (does
anyone have a clue how the computer can tell that it can no longer
drive the lamp? It can't, but the shop who tested the cat/muffler
restriction diag. tool indicated the pwr loss circuit failure...)
I can't verify if the charge sensor fixed the EGR message, it is
possible somehow the computer can infer the EGR valve operation
based on the charge temperature. Instead of shot-gunning the
computer malfunction (no doubt a transistor/driver somewhere), I
may break down and purchase the Mopar modified computer, for $159,
which if I recall, dropped about $100 in price since I looked last.
(Allen Middleton)
=======================================
QUICK CHECK OF THE OPTICAL DISTRIBUTOR
If the engine will not start, go to the 4-way connector. Hook up an
analog voltmeter to the gray wire with the black tracer and ground.
Crank the engine. The voltmeter should pulse between 5.0 volts and 0.0
volts. If the voltage cycles the problem is not in the distributor.
This is what you have just checked:
1) Battery power to the distributor
2) The distributor ground circuit
3) 5.0 Volt source from SMEC
4) correct operation of the photo diodes and LEDs
If the voltage did not cycle, is it 0.0 volts or 5.0 volts all
the time?
If it is 0.0 volts, the following could be at fault:
1) the 5.0 volt feed from the SMEC could be open or
grounded. Check with an ohmmeter.
2) the solid state circuit in the distributor could be
grounding the wire all the time. Verify by unplugging the distributor
connector and if the volts go up to 5.0 volts (key on), you have a bad
pickup.
If the voltage stayed at 5.0 volts, the following could be at fault:
1) no battery voltage at the distributor on the orange wire. Check with
a voltmeter (key on)
2) No ground for the distributor on the Black wire with the light blue
tracer. Check with an Ohmmeter. (key off)
3) The solid state circuit in the distributor stays open all the time.
If you have 9.2-9.4 volts on the orange wire and continuity on the
blk/lb wire and the voltmeter did or does not cycle 5.0 -0.0 volts you
have a bad pickup.
Note: The sync pickup will never prevent an engine from starting. It
can be checked in the same manner as the reference pickup, except test
the remaining wire instead of the gray/black wire.
The distributor does have fault codes that the SMEC can store: code 11
for reference pickup and code 54 for the sync pickup. In most cases,
either fault code would require replacement of the pickup assembly,
however, using the "quick check procedure" discussed earlier will
confirm this. Do not replace the pickup solely on the basis of a fault
code!
Courtesy B.L. Bodnar
Dale V. Silliman
I have a 94 GV AWD that has an intermittent ABS problem.
The brakes failed 5 times this past winter. The brake
peddle would go all the way down and no brakes. If you
let up on the peddle and depressed again they were back.
I have also noticed that when the window wipers are on
you can feel the pulse of the motor through the brake peddle.
Has anyone noticed this pulse in the brake peddle. The
service guys can't figure this one out. But, could this
be causing the ABS to fail? Also, someone told me that
since it is AWD that the computer was getting mixed signals
from the wheels and the ABS would shutdown for a moment.
Thanks,
Dale