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Stuck behind a slow truck

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larry_s...@yahoo.com

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May 19, 2008, 3:42:39 PM5/19/08
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So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing,
stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left
lane.

Then I saw my salvation, a car in the left lane with its right turn
signal flashing. I moved to the left and was nearly rear-ended by the
car with its right turn signal flashing. It turns out that the driver
had no intention of moving to the right and may have been driving with
his right turn signal flashing for miles.

If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault.

Dave Head

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May 19, 2008, 4:12:58 PM5/19/08
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On Mon, 19 May 2008 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT), larry_s...@yahoo.com wrote:

>So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing,
>stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left
>lane.
>
>Then I saw my salvation, a car in the left lane with its right turn
>signal flashing. I moved to the left and was nearly rear-ended by the
>car with its right turn signal flashing.

Yeah, risky move. Never underestimate the boneheadedness of the next driver.

>It turns out that the driver
>had no intention of moving to the right and may have been driving with
>his right turn signal flashing for miles.
>
>If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault.

You had the last opportunity to avoid the accident.

Alexander Rogge

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May 19, 2008, 4:30:00 PM5/19/08
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I would have blamed you for the collision, and blamed the other driver
for misusing a turn signal. If the left lane is the passing lane,
flash-to-pass is done with the left-turn signal. A right-turn signal
should only apply to the drivers behind the first driver in the passing
lane. I use the right-turn signal to show that I will be yielding the
passing lane to the driver behind me. I often do not bother to signal
when there is nobody else passing behind me, because it is assumed that
I will be moving back to the right lane.

Your turn signal does not require passing traffic to accommodate you.
You are required to accelerate to the speed of traffic before moving
into the passing lane. When I am stuck behind a slow truck or a Sloth
in a small car, I decelerate to make a gap, wait for an opening in the
traffic on my left, and accelerate to pass before moving into the left lane.

Jim Yanik

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May 19, 2008, 6:11:53 PM5/19/08
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Dave Head <rall...@att.net> wrote in
news:ttn33491vo26dsjt1...@4ax.com:

yes,an improper lane change;when it was not safe to change lanes.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Eeyore

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May 19, 2008, 8:31:22 PM5/19/08
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larry_s...@yahoo.com wrote:

In the UK any driver who hits the rear of another car is generally held to
be at fault. You'd have had to pull out right in front of him for the
other driver to claim it was your fault but you don't mention distances.

Graham


Brent P

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May 19, 2008, 9:10:20 PM5/19/08
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> If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault.

Me? I would have blamed you 75% them 25%.
Insurance company would have blamed them 100% but not because of the
turn signal. But because they rear-ended you and the doctrine in this
country is you must drive slow enough that no matter what some idiot
does you won't hit them. Of course that is a) impossible. b) complete
idiotcy from a congestion prevention pov.


Studemania

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May 19, 2008, 10:32:39 PM5/19/08
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On May 19, 6:10 pm, Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

California has a law that says slow vehicles must pull over at a safe
place if holding up more than four vehicles.
Suggest this to your rule writers along wwith your tale.
,
From a safety point of view, I would drop back a bit if someone else
tried to pass and might have to squeeze to the right to avoid a head-
on, forcing you off the road and into a ditch, as I saw on the
Tammiami Trail in 1952. No a pretty sight!

gpsman

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May 19, 2008, 10:49:22 PM5/19/08
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"Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs.

I think you have to ask yourself how you ended up in that
"predicament".
-----

- gpsman

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Alexander Rogge

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May 19, 2008, 11:51:46 PM5/19/08
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>> I would have blamed you for the collision, and blamed the other driver
>> for misusing a turn signal.
>
> Is there a law against that?

I'm not sure how to legally call it an improper use of a turn signal,
but it is an unnecessary blinking, unless the driver is signalling to
the driver behind in the passing lane and starting to move back to the
right lane.

I have seen these drivers that have their turn signals on for a long
time, even moving into the left lane with the right-turn signal blinking
and while failing to accelerate. A Sloth that tried that recently found
out that I don't brake to accommodate such stupidity, and the Sloth was
forced back into the right lane. The Sloth finally turned off its
improper signal when it swerved behind me and started flashing its
high-beams at me. They're totally oblivious to their surroundings,
including the noise from their turn-signal mechanisms.

Dave

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May 19, 2008, 12:28:14 PM5/19/08
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On Mon, 19 May 2008 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
larry_s...@yahoo.com wrote:

100% your fault, unsafe lane change. A turn signal is not legally binding in any way. A turn signal is supposed to communicate your intentions to other drivers BUT those other drivers are supposed to be watching what you actually DO, as well as what you signal. If you cut off someone because you THINK they are going somewhere that they aren't, then you have nobody but yourself to blame for the t/c. The fact that they signalled doesn't mean anything. -Dave

Dave

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May 19, 2008, 12:30:23 PM5/19/08
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> "Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs.
>


Nope, it would have been an unsafe lane change (moving into a lane that was not empty). That was the direct cause of the accident. Only one vehicle made a lane change (when it was unsafe to do so), so it would have been "technically" and "legally" the fault of the driver of the vehicle that changed lanes. -Dave

Message has been deleted

larry_s...@yahoo.com

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May 20, 2008, 1:26:20 PM5/20/08
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On May 19, 9:28 am, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
>

OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a
stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is
streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to
my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I
can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that
motioned me to proceed.

How do assess fault in this one?

Eeyore

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May 20, 2008, 1:53:10 PM5/20/08
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larry_s...@yahoo.com wrote:

It's ALWAYS your responsibilty to ensure that your path is clear.

For such reasons I will ignore 'friendly help' from other motorists if I'm uncertain about it.

Graham


gpsman

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May 20, 2008, 2:03:39 PM5/20/08
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On May 19, 12:30 pm, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > "Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs.
>
> Nope, it would have been an unsafe lane change (moving into a lane that was not empty). That was the direct cause of the accident. Only one vehicle made a lane change (when it was unsafe to do so), so it would have been "technically" and "legally" the fault of the driver of the vehicle that changed lanes.

That depends. There is such a thing as "contributory negligence", but
generally rear-end collisions fall into a category of "predetermined
fault".

http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/car-collisions-predetermined-fault-2/
-----

- gpsman

Alexander Rogge

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May 20, 2008, 3:06:55 PM5/20/08
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> OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a
> stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is
> streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to
> my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I
> can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that
> motioned me to proceed.
>
> How do assess fault in this one?

You're still to blame for the collision because you didn't have
right-of-way. An exception would be if the other driver starts to turn
and then accelerates straight into you as you are pulling out. Other
drivers can't signal that you can pull out in front of them. If it
isn't safe to pull out, stop and wait. If a JLEDI is also holding up
other traffic to "let you out", it is not safe to pull out because
somebody behind the JLEDI may not stop.

There was a report of another JLEDI this week that caused a traffic jam
by stopping in the middle of an intersection and waving to the drivers,
who were waiting at the red signal on the intersecting street, that they
could pull out. This is insane behaviour.

Harry K

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May 20, 2008, 10:41:47 PM5/20/08
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On May 20, 7:54 am, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 03:51:46 +0000, Alexander Rogge

>
> <a_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I have seen these drivers that have their turn signals on for a long
> >time, even moving into the left lane with the right-turn signal blinking
> >and while failing to accelerate.  A Sloth that tried that recently found
> >out that I don't brake to accommodate such stupidity, and the Sloth was
> >forced back into the right lane.  The Sloth finally turned off its
> >improper signal when it swerved behind me and started flashing its
> >high-beams at me.  They're totally oblivious to their surroundings,
> >including the noise from their turn-signal mechanisms.
>
> Sad to say, my C6 has a feature where if you leave your turn signal on
> too long and you are moving the stereo starts to beep loudly at you.
> Sadly, this is an indication that a big part of the target demographic
> for Corvettes is doddering old geezers who wear fedora hats and are
> totally oblivious to their surroundings, even what's going on inside
> the cockpit. :( :( :(
> --
> "Dave's not here, man!"
>   - Tommy Chong

My Ford 500 does the same...of course Ford 500 and 'geezer mobile' are
synonomous.

Harry K

Harry K

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May 20, 2008, 10:47:17 PM5/20/08
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On May 20, 10:53 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Graham- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Even leaving that aside, how would one prove to the cops that the
other driver _did_ signal? He isn't very likely to admit doing so.

Harry K

Eeyore

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May 21, 2008, 2:08:04 AM5/21/08
to

Harry K wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > > > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing,
> > > > > stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left
> > > > > lane.
> >
> > > > > Then I saw my salvation, a car in the left lane with its right turn
> > > > > signal flashing. I moved to the left and was nearly rear-ended by the
> > > > > car with its right turn signal flashing. It turns out that the driver
> > > > > had no intention of moving to the right and may have been driving with
> > > > > his right turn signal flashing for miles.
> >
> > > > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault.
> >
> > > > 100% your fault, unsafe lane change. A turn signal is not legally binding in any way. A turn signal is supposed to communicate your intentions to other drivers BUT those other drivers are supposed to be watching what you actually DO, as well as what you signal. If you cut off someone because you THINK they are going somewhere that they aren't, then you have nobody but yourself to blame for the t/c. The fact that they signalled doesn't mean anything. -Dave
> >
> > > OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a
> > > stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is
> > > streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to
> > > my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I
> > > can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that
> > > motioned me to proceed.
> >
> > > How do assess fault in this one?
> >
> > It's ALWAYS your responsibilty to ensure that your path is clear.
> >
> > For such reasons I will ignore 'friendly help' from other motorists if I'm uncertain about it.
> >
> > Graham
>

> Even leaving that aside, how would one prove to the cops that the
> other driver _did_ signal? He isn't very likely to admit doing so.

Quite so.

Another reason to be sensibly cautious.

Graham

Dave

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May 21, 2008, 12:49:59 AM5/21/08
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On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
larry_s...@yahoo.com wrote:

> On May 19, 9:28 am, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > On
>

> OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a
> stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is
> streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to
> my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I
> can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that
> motioned me to proceed.
>
> How do assess fault in this one?

Your fault, 100%. The other driver is not a cop in uniform, so his hand signal is not a command which must be obeyed. The other driver has the right of way, even if you think he signalled you otherwise. Consider this...if it ended up in court, how could you prove that the signal the other driver sent you was "go ahead, cut in front of me". Or for that matter, how could you prove that it was a signal TO YOU? Or could you prove that there was a signal at all? Another driver is not a traffic control device. You still need to yield the right of way if your progress is controlled by a STOP sign. -Dave

gpsman

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May 21, 2008, 1:23:40 PM5/21/08
to
On May 21, 12:49 am, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
> larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On May 19, 9:28 am, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > > On
>
> > OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a
> > stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is
> > streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to
> > my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I
> > can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that
> > motioned me to proceed.
>
> > How do assess fault in this one?
>
> Your fault, 100%. <> Consider this...if it ended up in court, how could you prove that the signal the other driver sent you was "go ahead, cut in front of me". Or for that matter, how could you prove that it was a signal TO YOU? Or could you prove that there was a signal at all?

How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in
the lane at impact)?
-----

- gpsman

Dave

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May 21, 2008, 5:19:20 AM5/21/08
to

>
> How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in
> the lane at impact)?
> -----
>
> - gpsman

If you are pulling out from a side street, damage to your car is likely to be on the driver's side. If you are square in a lane before impact, there likely will be no impact. -Dave

gpsman

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May 21, 2008, 5:35:05 PM5/21/08
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On May 21, 5:19 am, Dave <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in
> > the lane at impact)?
> > -----
>
> If you are pulling out from a side street, damage to your car is likely to be on the driver's side. If you are square in a lane before impact, there likely will be no impact.

1. How, more or less exactly, would that work...?

2. "How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square

Harry K

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May 21, 2008, 10:32:12 PM5/21/08
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1. Then you would be rear-ended and not at fault
2. Witnesses? Tire tracks? Admissions by other driver?

Harry K


Paul Hovnanian P.E.

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May 23, 2008, 1:03:02 PM5/23/08
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Here's another one:

4 lane road, traffic backing up westbound on the inside lane behind a
traffic light a ways ahead. Eastbound driver wishes to turn left into a
parking lot across westbound traffic. Driver westbound on inside land
stops early and waves e.b. vehicle to make the turn, which does. Turning
vehicle is t-boned by dump truck in westbound outside lane (still moving
toward intersection at speed).

The turning car was dragged along and struck several other vehicles to
the west before the truck could stop. IIRC, this was a fatality (the
passenger in the turning car).

My policy: I don't wave people turning across traffic in front of me.
They can wait or drive down a block and turn around.

--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

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