New Honda Civic
Eric Bin
new front end. The sedan is half 2.5TL and half Accord. Honda seems to
enjoy putting gaping holes into their front end. Your feelings?
Eric Bin
eb...@sfu.ca
Scott Ashdown
I like it a lot, though I know people who don't. Two of those people
have fairly understandable reasons for not liking it:
1) One owns a current Civic, which has become "the old body style".
He rants once and awhile about it, too (this happened to him
with another Civic in the eighties - I think he's finally
realizing how often Honda updates body styles).
2) One who was seriously considering picking up a 2.5TL. Now he's not
so sure. "I mean, before it was different, now it's just a big
Civic. People will think it's a Honda." I find this one kind of
interesting - after all, prestige is a fragile thing, and Honda's
got to convince people (or keep them convinced) that the larger
Acuras have it.
IMO, Honda's always right there when it comes to showing us a new way
to do headlights and grilles, and the "face" of a car is a major
point. Now, they make what I consider mistakes (the current Integra),
but they've also broke some new ground (the old Integra wide
headlights; and maybe even the TL cars and the Civic, depending on how
much you think the resemble the new Merc Coupe's).
--
Scott Ashdown
Engineer, MPR Teltech Ltd.
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada.
ash...@mprgate.mpr.ca
Steve Sheldon
>IMO, Honda's always right there when it comes to showing us a new way
>to do headlights and grilles, and the "face" of a car is a major
>point. Now, they make what I consider mistakes (the current Integra),
>but they've also broke some new ground (the old Integra wide
>headlights; and maybe even the TL cars and the Civic, depending on how
>much you think the resemble the new Merc Coupe's).
Now wait a minute. What's wrong with the current Integra?
I mean, at least the front end doesn't look like a Honda!
Steve
some people just don't have any taste. :)
--
Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
she...@iastate.edu ProMap by night '91 Bridgestone MB5
BEEF! -- Cause the west wasn't won on salad.
Elbert Chang
she...@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) wrote:
> Now wait a minute. What's wrong with the current Integra?
>
> I mean, at least the front end doesn't look like a Honda!
>
>
> Steve
> some people just don't have any taste. :)
Like yourself, 3-speed-automatic-Neon-Boy.
Eric M Lam
Why the drum brakes?
Why no ABS?
Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
Why the top speed limiter?
WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?!
===========================================================================
| Eric Lam em...@novice.uwaterloo.ca |
===========================================================================
| University of Waterloo | AlliedSignal Aerospace Canada |
| Department of Systems Design | Quality Assurance |
===========================================================================
Scott Ashdown
>In <437lsb$e...@viking.mpr.ca> ash...@mpr.ca (Scott Ashdown) writes:
>
>
>>IMO, Honda's always right there when it comes to showing us a new way
>>to do headlights and grilles, and the "face" of a car is a major
>>point. Now, they make what I consider mistakes (the current Integra),
>>but they've also broke some new ground (the old Integra wide
>>headlights; and maybe even the TL cars and the Civic, depending on how
>>much you think the resemble the new Merc Coupe's).
>
>
> I mean, at least the front end doesn't look like a Honda!
>
>some people just don't have any taste. :)
Sorry :).
I just really liked the previous Integras. But you've got a point - my
friend after the 2.5TL would agree with the "not a Honda" bit about
its looks.
If the headlamps were a bit larger, it might regain some of the
aggressive look the old car had (IMO). I certainly don't have anything
against round headlights - my brother's '79 Eurospec BMW 323i Baur
Targa is gorgeous, IMO. I also don't mind the new Celica, and I'm sure
everyone can figure out how I feel about, say, a Golf GTI 16V... :) I
actually wish my new car has round headlights, too.
BTW, congratulations on the new purchase - I've been away too long, it
would seem.
Still Thinking...
: Why the drum brakes?
Exactly, WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?! %$%*&^#%#xxh8**#$@^xYZ...
WHY THE PRICE, too..(WOW....Look at that hill)
WHY THE DRUM BRAKES?1!!!!! (forth times)
This is real suck.
Patrick R. Haikal
> I mean, at least the front end doesn't look like a Honda!
>Steve
>some people just don't have any taste. :)
>--
>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
>Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
What? Am I reading this right? Steve now has TWO Hondas? Well, nice to
know that all my hammering didn't go to waste...
BTW, what happened to your Passat? Or was it a Neon?
Patrick
Steve Sheldon
>Why the drum brakes?
Disc brakes are too sporty. People said the Civic was too sporty, so they
responded to the market.
>Why no ABS?
The Attracting Babes System was thought of as being too controversial.
>Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
No... the Geo Metro looks like a Neon. :)
The Civic hatchback looks like a longer Ford Aspire.:)
>Why the top speed limiter?
Top speeds are too sporty. I hear the speedometer only goes to 85 mph,
like back in the good ole days. :)
>WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?!
Rumor has it that Honda is dropping the disc brakes in the front as more
and more people complain about how they hate the sporty feel and yearn for
their old '53 Packard.
Steve
Oh, I don't think it's that bad. It just seems that the '96 is a step
backwards rather than a step forward in the evolution of the car line.
--
Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
Bryan Chow
Yeah, that's lame. It's embarrassing to have drum brakes on any
car in today's market.
This is a clear case of fixing something that ain't broke, and
then breaking it in the process.
--
Bryan Chow California Institute of Technology [ SCP Lab ]
br...@scp.caltech.edu / Home: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/
World Wide Web -- Roxy Music: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/roxy/
(818) 395-3903 \ Autos: http://www.scp.caltech.edu/~bryan/autos/
Eric M Lam
> Please, next time you make a post, try to post only to the most appropriate
> newsgroup(s). That will keep everyone from having to wade through so many
> messages that belong in other groups. The most appropriate one for your
> note is:
>
> rec.autos.tech
>
> Thank you!
>
> A Concerned User
>
Then what about:
* top speed of Passat (and other cars)
* Racist Words
* Refuse search of my car!? ..... and lots of other threads
Patrick R. Haikal
> Well, I just bought this Integra this month. I happened to get what I
>thought was a good deal on a used car, which was a good compromise of what I
>wanted in an automobile at this time.
So you do find a HONDA to be a "compromise of what [you] want in an
automobile"? What happened to the year or so of arguments about Chrysler's
superiority over Honda? I'm sure there's PLENTY of used Chryslers out
there...
> Neon. Unfortunately I can't afford to own more than one car, so I had to
>trade it in. :(
OOOOHHH! So you traded in a NEON so you could keep the HONDA. Man, oh,
man am I loving this...:)
Patrick
>Steve
>Wait until I post my comparison. :)
Well, I think that keeping one and returning the other says plenty,
Steve...:)
Steve Sheldon
>she...@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) wrote:
>>--
>>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
>>Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
>What? Am I reading this right? Steve now has TWO Hondas? Well, nice to
>know that all my hammering didn't go to waste...
Well, I just bought this Integra this month. I happened to get what I
thought was a good deal on a used car, which was a good compromise of what I
wanted in an automobile at this time.
The used car market is rather difficult to select from. Most of the used
cars right now in the low mileage arena('93 models) have obnoxious features
like mouse belts. I originally wanted a G20, but could only find a '93 with
mouse belts.
If the Spree is an example of fine Honda engineering, I'm rather surprised
Honda is still in business. Ohwell, it was really cheap to buy.
>BTW, what happened to your Passat? Or was it a Neon?
Neon. Unfortunately I can't afford to own more than one car, so I had to
trade it in. :(
Steve
Wait until I post my comparison. :)
Tom Foottit
> Well, I just bought this Integra this month. I happened to get what I
> thought was a good deal on a used car, which was a good compromise of what I
> wanted in an automobile at this time.
Ahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
You have got to be kidding. This made my day. Just thought I would
drag up some old quotes:
"...all Honda owners are bad drivers..."
"...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
Steve, you moron. It must have been humbling to drag your
bullshit-toting ass down to the dealer and trade in the Chrysler on an
Acura. I just hope you didn't get an automatic.
Tom
_____________________________________________________________________
Tom Foottit Computer Systems Engineering
tfoo...@chat.carleton.ca Carleton University
Ryan Rahim
: she...@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) wrote:
: So you do find a HONDA to be a "compromise of what [you] want in an
: automobile"? What happened to the year or so of arguments about Chrysler's
: superiority over Honda? I'm sure there's PLENTY of used Chryslers out
: there...
: OOOOHHH! So you traded in a NEON so you could keep the HONDA. Man, oh,
: man am I loving this...:)
: Patrick
: Well, I think that keeping one and returning the other says plenty,
: Steve...:)
Hey, Pat, I still have the Passat, and boy am I loving it! I've just
added a Uniden BCT-7 Scanner to compliment my V1. Also a set of German
made ABT lowering springs is on the way, and the Passat's going in for a
suspension upgrade with Bilstein Sport shocks. Oh yeah, I drive to
school every morning and feel a twinge of excitement and anticipation
before I start her up. It'll be a cold day in hell before I trade 'er in
for an Accord.
Just to let you know that you won't ever get the pleasure of knowing I
traded in my VW for a Honda. :-)
Ryan
Ryan Rahim
: Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: > Well, I just bought this Integra this month. I happened to get what I
: > thought was a good deal on a used car, which was a good compromise of what I
: > wanted in an automobile at this time.
: Ahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
: You have got to be kidding. This made my day. Just thought I would
: drag up some old quotes:
: "...all Honda owners are bad drivers..."
: "...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
: Steve, you moron. It must have been humbling to drag your
: bullshit-toting ass down to the dealer and trade in the Chrysler on an
: Acura. I just hope you didn't get an automatic.
That's what an overdose of Kobe beef will do to 'ya! :-)
Ryan
: Tom
Steve Sheldon
>Tom Foottit (tfoo...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
>: Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
>: > Well, I just bought this Integra this month. I happened to get what I
>: > thought was a good deal on a used car, which was a good compromise of what I
>: > wanted in an automobile at this time.
>: Ahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Gee Tom, I didn't know you cared.
>: You have got to be kidding. This made my day. Just thought I would
>: drag up some old quotes:
>: "...all Honda owners are bad drivers..."
Actually I believe I said Civic owners. I still stand by this
statement, although I'm beginning to think maybe it's just because most
Civic owners around here come from foreign places outside of US boundaries,
like California and such. :)
Although full sized van drivers seem to be even worse because they can
actually run you over.
>: "...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
I've never said that.
>: Steve, you moron. It must have been humbling to drag your
>: bullshit-toting ass down to the dealer and trade in the Chrysler on an
>: Acura. I just hope you didn't get an automatic.
Humbling? Huh? You are as confusing as Pico - the computer that thinks it
is a toy.
>That's what an overdose of Kobe beef will do to 'ya! :-)
What exactly is Kobe beef?
Steve
Patrick R. Haikal
>Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
>: she...@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) wrote:
>: So you do find a HONDA to be a "compromise of what [you] want in an
>: automobile"? What happened to the year or so of arguments about Chrysler's
>: superiority over Honda? I'm sure there's PLENTY of used Chryslers out
>: there...
>: OOOOHHH! So you traded in a NEON so you could keep the HONDA. Man, oh,
>: man am I loving this...:)
>: Patrick
>: Well, I think that keeping one and returning the other says plenty,
>: Steve...:)
>Hey, Pat, I still have the Passat, and boy am I loving it! I've just
>added a Uniden BCT-7 Scanner to compliment my V1. Also a set of German
>made ABT lowering springs is on the way, and the Passat's going in for a
>suspension upgrade with Bilstein Sport shocks. Oh yeah, I drive to
>school every morning and feel a twinge of excitement and anticipation
>before I start her up. It'll be a cold day in hell before I trade 'er in
>for an Accord.
PLEASE don't call me Pat:) Well, I'll give you credit for upgrading your
car with class. As long as you know in your heart of hearts that VW is
"THE" car, then more power to you. I just have a problem with chameleons,
who one day say the LOVE this car, and the next they're driving something
else...
>Just to let you know that you won't ever get the pleasure of knowing I
>traded in my VW for a Honda. :-)
Well, there's always Lloyd to convert.:)
Patrick
>Ryan
Patrick R. Haikal
>>: You have got to be kidding. This made my day. Just thought I would
>>: drag up some old quotes:
>>: "...all Honda owners are bad drivers..."
> Actually I believe I said Civic owners. I still stand by this
>statement, although I'm beginning to think maybe it's just because most
>Civic owners around here come from foreign places outside of US boundaries,
>like California and such. :)
One word, Steve: Weasel.
>>: "...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
> I've never said that.
Of course you didn't. You've been championing Hondas/Acuras for the past
couple fo years...NOT.
>>: Steve, you moron. It must have been humbling to drag your
>>: bullshit-toting ass down to the dealer and trade in the Chrysler on an
>>: Acura. I just hope you didn't get an automatic.
> Humbling? Huh? You are as confusing as Pico - the computer that thinks it
>is a toy.
>>That's what an overdose of Kobe beef will do to 'ya! :-)
> What exactly is Kobe beef?
He's as confused as I am, and you don't know what Kobe beef is? Tuck your
ass behind your tail and go home Steve. Kobe beef is a specialty beef that
sells in Japan for a good $100/lb. Usually from beer-fed cattle.
>Steve
Patrick
Steve Sheldon
>PLEASE don't call me Pat:) Well, I'll give you credit for upgrading your
>car with class. As long as you know in your heart of hearts that VW is
>"THE" car, then more power to you. I just have a problem with chameleons,
>who one day say the LOVE this car, and the next they're driving something
>else...
Awww, poor Pat...
Maybe some day when you grow up and find a job you will be able to spend
money on your own car instead of driving Daddy's Civic.
Then perhaps you'll understand.
Steve
Hint: The 3 door Integra and the 4 door Neon are different in many ways, not
least of all the $6000 difference in price.
Bruce Augenstein
>
>Why the drum brakes?
>Why no ABS?
>Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
>Why the top speed limiter?
>WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?!
As has already been said, Honda (and the rest of the Japanese manufacturers) are
trying to cut costs.
ABS is optional, yes?
To me (and of course I've only seen pictures), the Civic looks a lot like last
year's model, which means it's neither ugly nor beautiful. It's invisible.
I don't know why there is a top speed limiter, but if you care, I assume the
aftermarket will fix that for you after they figure out OBD II.
As for drum brakes in the rear, is this another of those
embarassing-at-cocktail-party-but-means-nothing-in-the-real-world things? The rear
brakes on practically any FWD car have pretty much nothing to do, so drums will work
just fine, thank you.
Bruce
Steve Sheldon
>>On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Rex Jennett wrote:
>>
>>> Please, next time you make a post, try to post only to the most appropriate
>>> newsgroup(s). That will keep everyone from having to wade through so many
>>> messages that belong in other groups. The most appropriate one for your
>>> note is:
>>>
>>> rec.autos.tech
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> A Concerned User
>We have a NetCop in our ranks now! When I posted about the F50
>I got the same mail from Officer Jennett.
I actually agree with Jennett to a certain extent. This .driving group
seems to be clogged with 'Who invented VTEC?' or 'Lloyd doesn't know
Physics' threads rather than articles about driving and such. But I'm
guilty of following up on such threads, so...
Although Jennett is wrong as well because rec.autos.tech is also an
inappropriate newsgroup.
The best newsgroup for discussing various things about automobiles is
really rec.autos.misc.
I wish him luck trying to change the ways of some people in this group.
It's a lost cause, though. :)
Ryan Rahim
:Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution:
Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: In <43k9c1$1...@parsifal.nando.net> prha...@nando.net (Patrick R. Haikal) writes:
: Steve
: Hint: The 3 door Integra and the 4 door Neon are different in many ways, not
: least of all the $6000 difference in price.
What disappoints me is that you promised that when it was time to trade
in the Neon, you'd test-drive a whole bunch of cars, incl. a Jetta.
Seems to me like that never happened.
Ryan
: Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Ryan Rahim
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution:
Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: Ryan was right about you. :(
Don't you know I'm always right unless I admit to a mistake? Eh, Bry? :-P
Ryan
Ryan Rahim
:Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution:
Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
: rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim) wrote:
: >: OOOOHHH! So you traded in a NEON so you could keep the HONDA. Man, oh,
: >: man am I loving this...:)
: >: Patrick
: >: Well, I think that keeping one and returning the other says plenty,
: >: Steve...:)
: >Hey, Pat, I still have the Passat, and boy am I loving it! I've just
: >added a Uniden BCT-7 Scanner to compliment my V1. Also a set of German
: >made ABT lowering springs is on the way, and the Passat's going in for a
: >suspension upgrade with Bilstein Sport shocks. Oh yeah, I drive to
: >school every morning and feel a twinge of excitement and anticipation
: >before I start her up. It'll be a cold day in hell before I trade 'er in
: >for an Accord.
: PLEASE don't call me Pat:)
I call all my friends named Patrick, Pat. But, I know women called
Patricia & Petra and I call them Pat too. I see your point.
: Well, I'll give you credit for upgrading your
: car with class.
Thank you. P.S, I hope you don't have a Fuba antenna on your Civic.
: As long as you know in your heart of hearts that VW is
: "THE" car, then more power to you.
Well, yeah, in its class. But if I were to upgrade, I'd just as easily
go for an A4 or a 328i.
: I just have a problem with chameleons,
: who one day say the LOVE this car, and the next they're driving something
: else...
Yeah, now that you mention it...
: >Just to let you know that you won't ever get the pleasure of knowing I
: >traded in my VW for a Honda. :-)
: Well, there's always Lloyd to convert.:)
Don't bother, he's already talked about buying a Jaguar, and liking a
Porsche 911 when you were gone.
<Shudder>
Ryan
Tom Welsh
>
>Eric M Lam (em...@idirect.com) wrote:
>
>: Why the drum brakes?
>: Why no ABS?
>: Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
>: Why the top speed limiter?
>: WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?!
>
>: | Eric Lam em...@novice.uwaterloo.ca |
>: ===========================================================================
>: | University of Waterloo | AlliedSignal Aerospace Canada |
>: | Department of Systems Design | Quality Assurance |
>: ===========================================================================
>
>
>instead of separate. Why? All this was in AutoWeek, and it's to cut
>costs. The yen/$ situation was threatening to price the Civic out of the
>market.
>
WHY NO SI MODEL? WHY SO UGLY?
Jeff Palmer
>Eric M Lam (em...@idirect.com) wrote:
>: Why the drum brakes?
>: Why no ABS?
Well, what do you mean Why no ABS. ABS is an option on most of the
models now, not just EX.
>: Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
Hatchback: Butt Ugly.
Coupe: Older model was much better looking
Sedan: Lateral move maybe. I like some of the new styling cues, but
don't like some of the others. I do like the factory alloys on the
EX.
>: Why the top speed limiter?
They already had one on the last model. It's because of the speed
rated tires on the lower models, I believe.
>: WHY THE DRUM BRAKES!?!
Geez, I'll never figure this one out. Honda put themselves right out
of my future car market with this blunder.
>Also, rear seats have 30% fewer threads. Clock part of radio display
>instead of separate. Why? All this was in AutoWeek, and it's to cut
Hmm. I missed this in the Autoweek report. 30% fewer threads? It's
not like it was plush or anything to begin with. The clock thing I
can live with, since every aftermarket radio has one built in it
seems, and having another one in your dash is a bit redundant if you
replace the factory radio.
>costs. The yen/$ situation was threatening to price the Civic out of the
>market.
The del Sol VTEC motor should be made available on an Si-R model with
rear disk brakes and some 50 series 15 inch rubber with a lower,
stiffer suspension. Sort of a GS-r little brother. It would probably
only be about $2-3k less than a GS-r sedan, but I think it might sell,
maybe as just a styling option to the Integra.
Jeff Palmer
'94 White Integra GS-r Sedan
'94 Red Integra LS Coupe
James L. Brunson
>
>The del Sol VTEC motor should be made available on an Si-R model with
>rear disk brakes and some 50 series 15 inch rubber with a lower,
>stiffer suspension. Sort of a GS-r little brother. It would probably
>only be about $2-3k less than a GS-r sedan, but I think it might sell,
>maybe as just a styling option to the Integra.
This would make a *great* little hot-hatch!
James
95 Civic VTi :)
Patrick R. Haikal
> Maybe some day when you grow up and find a job you will be able to spend
>money on your own car instead of driving Daddy's Civic.
What? You're more drunk than the cattle from which Kobe beef comes from.
Not to mention your manners. Oh, btw, I pay for my own car. I have a job.
I never drive a pussy 3-speed.
Grow up, steve, you've had a year to do it.
>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
>Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
>she...@iastate.edu ProMap by night '91 Bridgestone MB5
> BEEF! -- Cause the west wasn't won on salad.
Isn't it ironic that your sig file talks about BEEF! yet you don't know
what the best beef is...kind of like your taste in cars.
Patrick
Patrick R. Haikal
>: PLEASE don't call me Pat:)
>I call all my friends named Patrick, Pat. But, I know women called
>Patricia & Petra and I call them Pat too. I see your point.
Thanks. Nice to see that you have quite a bit more class than some OTHER
posters here (not to name Steve S.) in particular. And he's probably older
than both of us combined...
>: Well, I'll give you credit for upgrading your
>: car with class.
>Thank you. P.S, I hope you don't have a Fuba antenna on your Civic.
No, but I'm thinking of body-colored wipers:)
>: As long as you know in your heart of hearts that VW is
>: "THE" car, then more power to you.
>Well, yeah, in its class. But if I were to upgrade, I'd just as easily
>go for an A4 or a 328i.
Don't know about the Bimmer, but I've seen a couple of the new Audis around
here...Audi stylist definately have a touch when it comes to style. I'd
like an Audi body, with a Quatrro, plus the Honda interior, suspension,
engine, and 5-speed...To bad it'll never happen:(
>: I just have a problem with chameleons,
>: who one day say the LOVE this car, and the next they're driving something
>: else...
>Yeah, now that you mention it...
So he accuses ME of driving daddy's car...a Civic Coupe...he's a dolt.
>: >Just to let you know that you won't ever get the pleasure of knowing I
>: >traded in my VW for a Honda. :-)
>: Well, there's always Lloyd to convert.:)
>Don't bother, he's already talked about buying a Jaguar, and liking a
>Porsche 911 when you were gone.
><Shudder>
CAn't wait to see him arguing FOR a 911, after millions of posts of Viper
domination, followed by NSX praises...
Patrick
Lloyd R. Parker
: Patrick
And you've tasted this Kobe beef and know it's worth 10 times American
beef, right, Pico? The fact is, if Japan didn't bar the import of most
American agricultural products, Japanese consumers wouldn't pay 2-10
times what the rest of the industrialized world pays for food.
Lloyd R. Parker
: ><Shudder>
: Patrick
Whereas I like the 911, I could not fit comfortably in any sports car.
That's more for the young and nimble (or older people trying to pretend
they're young and nimble). I also couldn't fit in a Viper, and wouldn't
buy one without more creature comforts anyway.
Ryan Rahim
:Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution:
Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: >That's what an overdose of Kobe beef will do to 'ya! :-)
: What exactly is Kobe beef?
1) It's from Japan
2) It's the most expensive beef in the world.
3) The cows are massaged to keep the meat tender.
4) There's alcohol involved somewhere in the process.
Ryan
Bryan Chow
Ryan Rahim <rah...@unixg.ubc.ca> wrote:
>
>Don't you know I'm always right unless I admit to a mistake? Eh, Bry? :-P
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. So you're always right
unless you're wrong? Wow!
You were wrong about the NSX's roof.
You were wrong about the NSX's wheels.
You were wrong about the NSX's dash.
You were wrong about VTEC.
Scott Ashdown
Nothing like someone with a little firsthand experience, eh? :)
Yes, it would make a great hot-hatch. Unfortunately, Japanese and
US carmakers seem to have decided that the "hatch" bit doesn't sell
anymore. The new Civic hatch is a vehicle (pardon the pun) for
delivering a low-cost car to the market, instead of simply being
another body style (witness the lack of engine options). The hot hatch
idea has become the more generic pocket-rocket, and Honda's given us
the Del Sol VTEC. A great car, but a bit too specific for those hoping
for a hatch.
Chrysler has given us low-cost transportation in the form of the
speedy little Neon, but it's a notchback only. I'm not advocating a
hatch version of the Neon, of course, just pointing out there there
was no consideration given to a hatch at all. For people looking for a
hatchback, that's bad news, by definition.
Sure, Ford Festiva, little Kias and the like give you hatchbacks, but
where's the fun that we were shown by VW in '83? Europe's spilling
over with high-strung Clio Williams and umpteen Fiats and Peugots, and
what do we get? Not much.
--
Scott Ashdown
Engineer, MPR Teltech Ltd.
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada.
ash...@mprgate.mpr.ca
Steve Sheldon
>Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
>: What? You're more drunk than the cattle from which Kobe beef comes from.
>: Not to mention your manners. Oh, btw, I pay for my own car. I have a job.
>: I never drive a pussy 3-speed.
Heh. Could have fooled me, I figured you still in high school.
>: Grow up, steve, you've had a year to do it.
I see your still the same old cheerful self. :(
>: Isn't it ironic that your sig file talks about BEEF! yet you don't know
>: what the best beef is...kind of like your taste in cars.
Heh. Well I suppose when you have the idea that beef is that stuff you fry
up at work into big macs, you might think this. I think I'll stick with the
corn fed Angus from my uncles farm.
Nice thing about growing your own cattle. You get to select the cow to
take to the butcher yourself. Yummm tasty!
>And you've tasted this Kobe beef and know it's worth 10 times American
>beef, right, Pico? The fact is, if Japan didn't bar the import of most
>American agricultural products, Japanese consumers wouldn't pay 2-10
>times what the rest of the industrialized world pays for food.
Of course Pico eats Kobe beef everyday for dinner, served in that time
honored family tradition...
Two beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese on a sesame seed bun
Steve
:)
--
Isaac Wong
Don't forget the Isuzu Impulse hatchback. It is even hotter than the Honda
Civic Si hatch. It has a 130hp motor, 7700rpm redline (without variable
valve timing of course) and all the bells and whistles. This car also has
the firmest suspension in its class, IMHO. I especially like the badge which
says "Handling by LOTUS". :-)
Too bad they discontinued it in '91. :(
--
Isaac Wong | Protel Compiler Group
iw...@chat.carleton.ca | Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
cm...@freenet.carleton.ca | Dept. of Systems and Computer Engineering
TEL: (613) 763-6127 | Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Ryan Rahim
: >Well, yeah, in its class. But if I were to upgrade, I'd just as easily
: >go for an A4 or a 328i.
: Don't know about the Bimmer, but I've seen a couple of the new Audis around
: here...Audi stylist definately have a touch when it comes to style. I'd
: like an Audi body, with a Quatrro, plus the Honda interior, suspension,
: engine, and 5-speed...To bad it'll never happen:(
That broght tears to my eyes - the idea of a bastardized Audi. I happen
to like the Audi interior, esp the Swiss-watch quality VDO gauges, the
cool check-control pictograms, the seat material etc. In terms of
suspension, the A4 and A8, I hear, has a high-tech suspension that
eliminates virtually any trace of torque steer. The engine that's
available in the A4, the non-turbo 5valve/cyl 1.8 4 has a much flatter
and useable torque curve than the 1.8 Integra. With the Turbo, we're
rockin'. Also available is a V6 similar in capabilities to a VR6. In
the case of the A8, Honda doesn't make as large or powerful an engine in any
of their production cars. (NSX's is too expensive.) So how do you propose
adding a Honda engine?
: >Don't bother, he's already talked about buying a Jaguar, and liking a
: >Porsche 911 when you were gone.
: ><Shudder>
: CAn't wait to see him arguing FOR a 911, after millions of posts of Viper
: domination, followed by NSX praises...
Please, let's not talk about Lloyd in a 911.
Ryan
: Patrick
Ryan Rahim
: In article <43l8s6$4...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>,
: Ryan Rahim <rah...@unixg.ubc.ca> wrote:
: >
: >Don't you know I'm always right unless I admit to a mistake? Eh, Bry? :-P
: That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. So you're always right
: unless you're wrong? Wow!
: You were wrong about the NSX's roof.
: You were wrong about the NSX's wheels.
: You were wrong about the NSX's dash.
: You were wrong about VTEC.
I've admitted to making mistakes on all of those. So far you've been
proving my point (as usual.)
A couple of mistakes aren't bad, don't you think? :-P
: Bryan Chow California Institute of Technology [ SCP Lab ]
Eric M Lam
> Maybe some day when you grow up and find a job you will be able to spend
> money on your own car instead of driving Daddy's Civic.
>
> Then perhaps you'll understand.
Excuse moi? Ok, I admit I jumped into this and I know that this comment
was not directed towards me, BUT I DO have a job AND I'm still driving
Daddy's Altima.
You were trying to say?
maybe you just wouldn't understand ... =)
Ryan Rahim
: >: PLEASE don't call me Pat:)
: >I call all my friends named Patrick, Pat. But, I know women called
: >Patricia & Petra and I call them Pat too. I see your point.
: Thanks. Nice to see that you have quite a bit more class than some OTHER
: posters here (not to name Steve S.) in particular. And he's probably older
: than both of us combined...
No problem.
Ryan a.k.a asshole.
Patrick R. Haikal
>>Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
>>: Grow up, steve, you've had a year to do it.
> I see your still the same old cheerful self. :(
I'm cheerful to most everyone else, INCLUDING Ryan, when it comes to
civilized chit-chat. But not when a goober claims I'm driving daddy's car,
blah, blah...
>>: Isn't it ironic that your sig file talks about BEEF! yet you don't know
>>: what the best beef is...kind of like your taste in cars.
> Heh. Well I suppose when you have the idea that beef is that stuff you fry
>up at work into big macs, you might think this. I think I'll stick with the
>corn fed Angus from my uncles farm.
> Nice thing about growing your own cattle. You get to select the cow to
>take to the butcher yourself. Yummm tasty!
Actually, I'm a sucker for char-grilled Ribeyes. [slober,slober] So, I
take it you'll be kind enough to send me some of your home grown cattle?:)
For once, I'm in awe of you, Steve:)
>>And you've tasted this Kobe beef and know it's worth 10 times American
>>beef, right, Pico? The fact is, if Japan didn't bar the import of most
>>American agricultural products, Japanese consumers wouldn't pay 2-10
>>times what the rest of the industrialized world pays for food.
> Of course Pico eats Kobe beef everyday for dinner, served in that time
>honored family tradition...
>Two beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese on a sesame seed bun
Now, who was it that mentioned cheerfulness? Yes, it's incredible, but no,
it's not worth $100/lb. I'm just as happy with the Angus Barn's Ribeye,
medium-rare. Either way, this ain't the place to discuss trade (plus I'm
completely uninterested in it).
What's the special sauce, anyways?
Patrick
vt...@netdepot.com
>Don't forget the Isuzu Impulse hatchback. It is even hotter than the Honda
>Civic Si hatch. It has a 130hp motor, 7700rpm redline (without variable
I've driven one . Something tells me that the 130hp rating was a bit
opitimistic. It takes about a minute to swing the tach up to redline
in 1st gear. The car's not a slug, but I was a bit disappointed by
the acceleration, given high power/weight ratio. It handled like a
go-kart, but unfortunately rode like one too.
>valve timing of course) and all the bells and whistles. This car also has
>the firmest suspension in its class, IMHO. I especially like the badge which
>says "Handling by LOTUS". :-)
Personally, I liked the previous model Impulse with the "Handling by
Lotus". It seemed to ride much better without sacrificing much in the
way of cornering ability.
>Too bad they discontinued it in '91. :(
I thought they ran through at least '92 or '93?
Paul Lu
>pal...@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Palmer) wrote:
>
>>lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) wrote:
>
>>>Eric M Lam (em...@idirect.com) wrote:
>>>: Why the top speed limiter?
>>They already had one on the last model. It's because of the speed
>>rated tires on the lower models, I believe.
I owned a 92 EX, have never HEARD about any speed limiter.
>
>No, the '93 and '94 EX Coupes had no top speed limiter. Effectively
>they are limited to 120mph in 4th gear because that's at the redline
>and they lose speed in 5th.
I have never driven the Coupe. But my sedan don't loose speed
in 5th. Actually, in many cases I drove it, it picked up speed
from 80 mph quick enough that many sports cars are slower under
such condition. This is totally because of the VTEC engine adds
extra power when you rev it up.
Dai F Toyama
>In <43m08o$6...@news1.wolfe.net> da...@hitmark.com (Dai F Toyama) writes:
>>Oh come on. Steve bought an Integra obviously because he thought it
>>was worth it. That means he, no matter what his position on Honda was
>>before, now owns a Honda. I'm pretty happy with that. Not you?
> No, I own an Acura. Sheesh, get it straight, it doesn't even look like a
>Honda. :)
That doesn't change the fact that you and I are in the same ACURA
family. How's that? :-)
> I think perhaps what Patrick doesn't seem to understand is when I sit back
>and look at various automobile companies the only one which I can pull out
>the brochures and go down the list saying "Gee, I wouldn't mind owning that
>car" with every car on the list is Chrysler.
> The japanese manufacturers have a handful of cars. I actually find Nissan
>and Mazda more appealing overall than Honda. Toyota is filled with lot's of
>"well, I could live with this car, but it doesn't excite me" types of cars.
Pico is probably just a bit upset 'cause you seem to have changed your
policy drastically to him. I exchanged a few e-mails with him a while
ago. He was very polite and informative, so I'm sure we're not seeing
his true self these last couple of days...
> GM is really out in left field somewhere. They need a new design team. :(
>Ford is improving, but there's a lot of cars in their lineup I wouldn't want
>to drive much less purchase.
>
I happened to see a 96 Taurus at a local fuel station last Friday.
Looked better than in the picture. The dealer guy (it had dealer
plates) told me it had a Duratec V6 that put out 200 hp. He looked
very happy that I'd recognised the car right away. I should have
gotten his card or somethin'.
>>>>>: "...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
>>If he'd said that, he then must have changed his mind. For the
>>better, I'd say. The fact is, he bought a car that was good for him,
>>and that happened to be a Japanese car.
> Well I never did say that. I think they are overhyped, overrated and
>overpriced for the most part. But they still make wonderful niche market
>cars like the Integra 3dr, Miata, Del Sol and such, which is a market that
>can bear being overpriced.
In honesty, I don't really care for the del Sol. It's a nice little
car, but I miss the previous-generation CRX.
> I'm finding a lot of the tales told in this newsgroup are false. I mean
>for one thing the Integra rattles, and it has average ergonomics. I knew
>about the ergonomics when I bought the car, but the rattles confound me.
>Doesn't seem to be just my car as someone else on the Honda list posted the
>same problem with the sunroof. Hopefully I can get this fixed. :(
Hmm... I've owned my GS-R for three and a half years. I've never had
that kind of problems during the period (i.e., rattling roof) even
with the sunroof. I hope you're not one of the hard-luck Acura
owners.
> Sheesh, I'll fatten up a cow for you next time you visit Iowa, and you can
>experience real prime rib. If you come in august you can have fresh corn on
>the cob, and maybe we can find some home grown potatoes.
I used to believe, just like most other Japanese in Japan, that beef
in the US is very stiff and barely edible. I found that to be totally
false on the day I arrived in Seattle. I believe Iowa beef is just as
good as, if not better than, Kobe beef, but I have to find out for
sure. Care to send me a pound of it? :-)
> We don't feed beer to the cows, prefer to drink that ourselves.
We both feed it to the cows and drink it ourselves. Greedy, y'know.
:-)
> Can't drive the NSX though. Maybe if you promise to buy it, they'll let
>you drive it, but... :)
Yeah, I know. I should tell them that they'd rather let us drive it
than keep it in the showroom for more than a year, hoping that the
sultan of some country shows up one day.
>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
>Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day '85 Honda Spree
>she...@iastate.edu ProMap by night '91 Bridgestone MB5
> BEEF! -- Cause the west wasn't won on salad.
Dai
Jimmy Wardhana
>From: rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim)
>Subject: Re: Steve Sheldon has 2 Hondas? (was:Re: New Honda Civic)
>Date: 19 Sep 1995 21:57:10 GMT
>Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
>: rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim) wrote:
>No problem.
>Ryan a.k.a asshole.
Can't agree more.
Steve Sheldon
>Thanks. Nice to see that you have quite a bit more class than some OTHER
>posters here (not to name Steve S.) in particular. And he's probably older
>than both of us combined...
Since I'm 27, you are right. I am older than both of you combined.
Steve
I think it's really funny that Pico would try to argue that he has class.
--
Eric M Lam
> As has already been said, Honda (and the rest of the Japanese manufacturers) are
> trying to cut costs.
Why can't they cut them somewhere else then? Like those 21 co-op
positions to Waterloo they have in Alliston! (Just kidding ...)
> ABS is optional, yes?
Yeah ok, I was reading between lines ... duh!
However there was no improvement over the old car in terms of braking.
Just wondering, shouldn't a new car be better than an old one?
> To me (and of course I've only seen pictures), the Civic looks a lot like last
> year's model, which means it's neither ugly nor beautiful. It's invisible.
Hmmm ... just realized that the sedan's back looks very much like the TL.
Actually, the whole thing pretty much looks like a TL. Will all HOndas be
like that in the future? (I hope not: it's UGLY!!)
> I don't know why there is a top speed limiter, but if you care, I assume the
> aftermarket will fix that for you after they figure out OBD II.
What/s the point anyways? It limits the top speed to 120mph (MT). The car
probably couldn't go 5mph faster (guys, care to do a little flame war on
this one? =) )
> As for drum brakes in the rear, is this another of those
> embarassing-at-cocktail-party-but-means-nothing-in-the-real-world things? The rear
> brakes on practically any FWD car have pretty much nothing to do, so drums will work
> just fine, thank you.
I wonder what would happen after several high speed stops (say, on a track).
> Bruce
Clark Archer
>tca...@prodigy.com (Clark Archer) wrote:
>>
>>No, the '93 and '94 EX Coupes had no top speed limiter. Effectively
>>they are limited to 120mph in 4th gear because that's at the redline
>>and they lose speed in 5th.
>I have never driven the Coupe. But my sedan don't loose speed
>in 5th. Actually, in many cases I drove it, it picked up speed
>from 80 mph quick enough that many sports cars are slower under
>such condition. This is totally because of the VTEC engine adds
>extra power when you rev it up.
When I said it loses speed in 5th, I mean that 5th gear cannot
maintain 120 mph on a level surface. Also, the speedo is off and you
have to calculate by RPM and gear ratios to realize that 4th is good
for 120 mph at 7200 RPM, not the indicated 125+.
Clark Archer '83 Civic 1300FE
Affinity, Inc. '89 Tercel (yuk)
tca...@prodigy.com '93 Civic EX Coupe
There's no substitute for cubic dollars. '94 Civic EXA Coupe
Alexander Lygin
>
>lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) wrote:
>
>>Eric M Lam (em...@idirect.com) wrote:
>
>>: Why no ABS?
>Well, what do you mean Why no ABS. ABS is an option on most of the
>models now, not just EX.
>
>>: Why the ugly look? (Resembles a Geo Metro ... but that's MY opinion)
>Hatchback: Butt Ugly.
>Coupe: Older model was much better looking
>Sedan: Lateral move maybe. I like some of the new styling cues, but
>don't like some of the others. I do like the factory alloys on the
>EX.
>They already had one on the last model. It's because of the speed
>rated tires on the lower models, I believe.
I have 1995 Civic, speed limiter works at 120 mph, not at 85!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Alexander.
Jeff Palmer
>tca...@prodigy.com (Clark Archer) wrote:
>>pal...@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Palmer) wrote:
>>
>>>lpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Lloyd R. Parker) wrote:
>>
>>>>Eric M Lam (em...@idirect.com) wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>>: Why the top speed limiter?
>>>They already had one on the last model. It's because of the speed
>>>rated tires on the lower models, I believe.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I owned a 92 EX, have never HEARD about any speed limiter.
I owned a '92 LX 5 speed. The top speed limiter kicked in at an
indicated 123 mph. I know because my lunch practically went through
the windshield when the speedo needle touched that speed. and the
engine cut off momentarily, then back on, then back off. I repeated
this phenomenon multiple times. I never drove my sister's '94 EX
coupe that fast before it's untimely demise this past June. I don't
know how fast she ever got it up to, but she got a ticket for 87 mph.
I've read in several magazine tests that even the EXs had speed
limiters at a measly 116 mph or something like that, but I never
personally verified it. I think the LX limiter was supposed to kick
in at 113 or so.
>>
>>No, the '93 and '94 EX Coupes had no top speed limiter. Effectively
>>they are limited to 120mph in 4th gear because that's at the redline
>>and they lose speed in 5th.
I have never driven the Coupe. But my sedan don't loose speed
in 5th. Actually, in many cases I drove it, it picked up speed
from 80 mph quick enough that many sports cars are slower under
such condition. This is totally because of the VTEC engine adds
extra power when you rev it up.
>OTOH, I believe the LX and DX do have a "limiter" - the engine
>wouldn't push the car to 120 mph. What is the highest mph on the
>speedo?
I think the highest number was 120, but the hash marks went to 130
mph. The engine in my LX had absolutely NO trouble pushing it to an
indicated 123. It felt like it was gonna keep on pulling if the
governer hadn't pulled the plug on the fun. After owning the car for
a month (it took me that long to actually run the engine seriously
hard), I (and anybody that rode with me in the car) had serious doubts
that the hp rating of 102 was accurate. Around town acceleration was
pretty good, but on the interstate the car was a beast. I know my
sister's EX coupe didn't feel 20+% stronger. It was definitely a fun
little car. If only it had a little stiffer suspension and some
stickier tires (actually, anything resembling sticky tires would have
been great) I probably wouldn't have been so eager to trade for the
GS-r sedan that I am now driving (so far "only" an indicated 143 mph).
Ryan Rahim
: >Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
: >: rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim) wrote:
: >: >Well, yeah, in its class. But if I were to upgrade, I'd just as easily
: >: >go for an A4 or a 328i.
: >That broght tears to my eyes - the idea of a bastardized Audi. I happen
: >to like the Audi interior, esp the Swiss-watch quality VDO gauges, the
: >cool check-control pictograms, the seat material etc. In terms of
: >suspension, the A4 and A8, I hear, has a high-tech suspension that
: >eliminates virtually any trace of torque steer. The engine that's
: >available in the A4, the non-turbo 5valve/cyl 1.8 4 has a much flatter
: >and useable torque curve than the 1.8 Integra. With the Turbo, we're
: >rockin'. Also available is a V6 similar in capabilities to a VR6. In
: >the case of the A8, Honda doesn't make as large or powerful an engine in any
: >of their production cars. (NSX's is too expensive.) So how do you propose
: >adding a Honda engine?
: Well, I know it sounds very stereotypical (again), but you seem like a
: typical Asian person who likes anything about German cars. Is it in
: any way against your policy to agree on any slight positive thing
: about Japanese cars? (No offence, I'm just curious.)
Well speaking with regards to sedans (which I like), I can say that I'm
at either extremes. German sedans tend to be very driver oriented while
providing a nice touch of class and luxury, which I like. I like
American sedans for their BIGGER and pig-iron mentality. Therefore, I'd
like to have an Impala SS, and an A8. I tend to think that in general,
the Japanese make sedans fitting between German and American: Moderately
driver oriented, but doesn't have that
kick-ass-I'll-run-you-over-and-do-a-burnout image.
PS: I really don't disagree with "slight positive things" about Japanese
cars. It just so happens we deal with issues about Japanese cars that I
don't agree with.
I'll agree to A+ quality, reliability and attention to detail.
But I won't agree that an Accord or Camry is more fun to drive than a Passat.
Ryan
: Dai
Paul Lu
>Paul Lu <Cin...@Mindspring.com> wrote:
>>tca...@prodigy.com (Clark Archer) wrote:
>When I said it loses speed in 5th, I mean that 5th gear cannot
>maintain 120 mph on a level surface. Also, the speedo is off and you
>have to calculate by RPM and gear ratios to realize that 4th is good
>for 120 mph at 7200 RPM, not the indicated 125+.
Too bad I can't try this on my Little Red Ridinghood - she is gone.
But I did noticed that it is not running as fast as my RX-7 when
they both says 115 mph.
Patrick R. Haikal
>Pico is probably just a bit upset 'cause you seem to have changed your
>policy drastically to him. I exchanged a few e-mails with him a while
>ago. He was very polite and informative, so I'm sure we're not seeing
>his true self these last couple of days...
It's called MB414- Metabolic Regulation...I gotta take it out on somebody
you know. Actually, what ticked me off concerning Steve is the "Please
don't call me Pat"..."Ok, Pat" response. It's a little to immature for
me:)
>> Well I never did say that. I think they are overhyped, overrated and
>>overpriced for the most part. But they still make wonderful niche market
>>cars like the Integra 3dr, Miata, Del Sol and such, which is a market that
>>can bear being overpriced.
>In honesty, I don't really care for the del Sol. It's a nice little
>car, but I miss the previous-generation CRX.
Reminds me of the execs. at ABC who thought the Cosby Show just wouldn't
work...I can understand how Honda wanted to carve a new area for
themselves...but to do it at the expense of the CRX...tsk, tsk. Well, all
the talk of a "new" CRX to replace the del Sol will certainly increase as
Honda gets ready a replacement. Al I know is that Honda better start
giving us some of those kick-ass European & Japanese engines...
>Hmm... I've owned my GS-R for three and a half years. I've never had
>that kind of problems during the period (i.e., rattling roof) even
>with the sunroof. I hope you're not one of the hard-luck Acura
>owners.
Looks like it. My Civic is on it's 2 year and no rattles. I got into my
brother-in-laws light blue Chevrolet's version of the Transport (can't
think of the name), and it was like "groan, squeak, rattle" the whole time.
Brand new. But, hey, it's a company car, it's free, and he hates it (had
to give up a M-B 190 for it).
>> Sheesh, I'll fatten up a cow for you next time you visit Iowa, and you can
>>experience real prime rib. If you come in august you can have fresh corn on
>>the cob, and maybe we can find some home grown potatoes.
>I used to believe, just like most other Japanese in Japan, that beef
>in the US is very stiff and barely edible. I found that to be totally
>false on the day I arrived in Seattle. I believe Iowa beef is just as
>good as, if not better than, Kobe beef, but I have to find out for
>sure. Care to send me a pound of it? :-)
Hey! I had dibs on the first couple of pounds...I'm still waiting, Steve.
Patrick
Bentley
Distribution:
Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: GM is really out in left field somewhere. They need a new design team. :(
: Ford is improving, but there's a lot of cars in their lineup I wouldn't want
: to drive much less purchase.
Agree about GM, but think Ford is doing some nice things with
lower-priced sedans, especially the Contour.
:
: >>>>: "...I'll never buy a Japanese car..."
:
: >If he'd said that, he then must have changed his mind. For the
: >better, I'd say. The fact is, he bought a car that was good for him,
: >and that happened to be a Japanese car.
:
: Well I never did say that. I think they are overhyped, overrated and
: overpriced for the most part. But they still make wonderful niche market
: cars like the Integra 3dr, Miata, Del Sol and such, which is a market that
: can bear being overpriced.
Tell you what: Digex has about the longest running newsfeed I've ever
seen; there are messages still there that date back to 1994. I don't see
the need nor do I have the desire to go back and paste together some of
your previous opinions on the Japanese, their cars, and those who buy
them. In fact, the entire thought would be dropped from my mind if you
do one little favor: Scan your Acura's title, redacting the key fields
of course, and post it on your web page. Because frankly there's a lot of
e-mail traffic going around that hypothesizes that you're just pretending
to have bought the Integrat so that you can claim what a horrible car it
is, this giving credence to your previous Honda-bashing.
A scanned image would certainly clear that up, so why not?
: I'm finding a lot of the tales told in this newsgroup are false. I mean
: for one thing the Integra rattles, and it has average ergonomics. I knew
: about the ergonomics when I bought the car, but the rattles confound me.
: Doesn't seem to be just my car as someone else on the Honda list posted the
: same problem with the sunroof. Hopefully I can get this fixed. :(
Fascinating. Yeah I hope they can fix it too...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Bentley
Atlanta, GA / Bowie, MD -- Personal account, all disclaimers apply
Ryan Rahim
: In article <43m08o$6...@news1.wolfe.net>,
: Dai F Toyama <da...@hitmark.com> wrote:
: >Oh come on. Steve bought an Integra obviously because he thought it
: >was worth it. That means he, no matter what his position on Honda was
: >before, now owns a Honda. I'm pretty happy with that. Not you?
: I was in the same boat. After driving Saturns for 4 years and loving
: the car, I weaseled in and now drive a Geo Prism. I have no illusions
: that the two cars are anywhere close. I suggested (and still do)
: Saturns to friends, and depending on the specific needs, Geos as well.
: Maybe Steve will have a critical eye and we will see a REAL comparo.
: Which reminds me, I should do one between my Prism and my old SL2'/SW2.
What happened to the '95 Saab 900. That's an awesome car btw, but IMO
styled like an electronic-robot-mouse sniffing out for cheese.
Ryan
: Spiros
Clark Archer
The highest number is 120mph, the last mark is at 130mph. I drove a
'93 DX Coupe that was limited to 113mph. It felt just like hitting
the rev limiter with a 5-speed manual, though it was a 4-speed auto.
Eric M Lam
> Also, rear seats have 30% fewer threads. Clock part of radio display
> instead of separate. Why? All this was in AutoWeek, and it's to cut
> costs. The yen/$ situation was threatening to price the Civic out of the
> market.
For once I have to agree with Lloyd. At US$15000 the Civic is not cheap.
Yet it does not offer anything the competition has, except for one: It's
a HONDA.
And IMHO, HONDA, thought good, is not worth that couple thousands extra.
Steve Sheldon
I think you should make a critical comparison of Prizm and Saturn. It's
interesting to see what people see in cars which they feel are nice
features, and what people are just "used" to.
Spiros has both a Saab and a Geo(blah blah ick). :)
I've been making little notes with various comments to myself. There are
several things I'm very critical of the Integra on, and other things I'm
critical of the Neon on. Need to try to write this up.
I have noticed that other Integra owners seem to notice me. It's kind of
interesting. I met this GS-R the other day at a stop light who was looking
over my LS.
Most of the Neon owners in my area are mainly older people. I don't
understand why. I suppose it appeals because it's so cheap and still has
space for 4 adults.
Steve
Ryan Rahim
:Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: usa
Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: In <43sl61$j...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca> rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim) writes:
: Most of the Neon owners in my area are mainly older people. I don't
: understand why. I suppose it appeals because it's so cheap and still has
: space for 4 adults.
Yup, they had to trade in their K-cars for something! :-)
Ryan
: Steve
Bentley
: >A scanned image would certainly clear that up, so why not?
:
: HAhahahahaha!
:
: Oh, that's a hoot.
Glad you find it amusing.
:
: Well, here's the VIN JH4DC4354RS022994. I'll see about scanning in a
: picture.
Please do. According to my latest crash guides, JH4DC... refers to 1995
and later Acuras. But it could be wrong.
: Although, I still find it interesting how critical comments WRT Honda are
: considered bashing. Yet bashing of American cars is considered proper.
THIS is why some of us have trouble believing your purchase: Why would
anybody who feels that criticism of American products is unpatriotic buy
a Japanese car, especially from a manufacturer that builds 80% of its US
sales in North America? Why would someone who was so much in favor of
the tarrifs of last summer invest his dollars in a 0% US vehicle, one of
the few sold here, I might add?
When Hondas perform poorly, it's considered criticism.
When American cars (including Hondas, btw) perform poorly, it's
considered critisim.
When someone says "All drivers of this brand are bad drivers," it's bashing.
When someone says "Those smug people from country x deserve to have their
ass kicked" it's bashing.
Hey, some of us put our money where our mouths are; if, after ten years
of being distressed with virtually all of GM's products (except Saturn) I
went out and bought a used Chevrolet, I would be opening myself up to
being called hypocritical, no?
Here's one on the fringe of this server: "I DON'T HATE HONDAS. I think
their just incredibly overrated..."
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Mark Bentley http://www.access.digex.net/~bentley
Paul Lu
>For once I have to agree with Lloyd. At US$15000 the Civic is not cheap.
>Yet it does not offer anything the competition has, except for one: It's
>a HONDA.
I would like to hear which of the competitions offer this "HONDA"?
Also, having hard time agree this "not offer ANYTHING". As long as
Honda can answer ONE item, this statement is false.
Steve Sheldon
>Tell you what: Digex has about the longest running newsfeed I've ever
>seen; there are messages still there that date back to 1994. I don't see
>the need nor do I have the desire to go back and paste together some of
>your previous opinions on the Japanese, their cars, and those who buy
>them. In fact, the entire thought would be dropped from my mind if you
>do one little favor: Scan your Acura's title, redacting the key fields
>of course, and post it on your web page. Because frankly there's a lot of
>e-mail traffic going around that hypothesizes that you're just pretending
>to have bought the Integrat so that you can claim what a horrible car it
>is, this giving credence to your previous Honda-bashing.
>A scanned image would certainly clear that up, so why not?
HAhahahahaha!
Oh, that's a hoot.
Well, here's the VIN JH4DC4354RS022994. I'll see about scanning in a
picture.
Steve
Although, I still find it interesting how critical comments WRT Honda are
considered bashing. Yet bashing of American cars is considered proper.
Eric French
: For once I have to agree with Lloyd. At US$15000 the Civic is not cheap.
: Yet it does not offer anything the competition has, except for one: It's
: a HONDA.
: And IMHO, HONDA, thought good, is not worth that couple thousands extra.
After buying a '95 Civic VX (trading my 96 Saturn SL2 in to get it!), I'm
a little disappointed that they've killed the VX and the Si for 96. I've
picked up four articles (Automobile, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and
Motor Trend *all* did spots on the 96 this month) and just cried. What
did they do to the Hatchback? My girlfriend and I were waiting to get a
96 because of side impact protection but the only engine in the hatches
is the basic 1.6! Where's the VTEC or the VTEC-E? In the coupes,
because those are what sell in the U.S. So now we have to try to hunt
down a 95 Si, but so far no such luck.
I'm going to miss the 'taligate' as well.
However, it's refreshing to see that the HX will have the continiously
variable transmission; looks like the VTEC-E will have it's day after
all. Personally, I haven't seen more than half a dozen vx's in the two
years I've been scanning Hondas on the road.
-e. martin french
95 Honda Civic vx
94 Honda Elite 50
p.s. anyone know of any mods that can be made to increase performance
*without* voiding any warranties? I already have the K&N air filter, but
ever since I've installed it, my idle speed fluxuates between 500-900 rpm
at rest. Weird.
Steve Sheldon
>Please do. According to my latest crash guides, JH4DC... refers to 1995
>and later Acuras. But it could be wrong.
Nope, it's a '94 according to the dealer. Also have a copy of the window
sticker stating same.
>: Although, I still find it interesting how critical comments WRT Honda are
>: considered bashing. Yet bashing of American cars is considered proper.
>THIS is why some of us have trouble believing your purchase: Why would
>anybody who feels that criticism of American products is unpatriotic buy
Unpatriotic? Well then you better shoot me for criticizing Ford and GM cars
I've owned.
>a Japanese car, especially from a manufacturer that builds 80% of its US
>sales in North America? Why would someone who was so much in favor of
>the tarrifs of last summer invest his dollars in a 0% US vehicle, one of
>the few sold here, I might add?
Maybe I saw the light?
>When Hondas perform poorly, it's considered criticism.
No that's bashing.
>When American cars (including Hondas, btw) perform poorly, it's
>considered critisim.
No, that's idle banter. Witness the various threads going on right now.
>When someone says "All drivers of this brand are bad drivers," it's bashing.
No, that's a joke... A very old joke, I might add, also misquoted.
>When someone says "Those smug people from country x deserve to have their
>ass kicked" it's bashing.
I said that? I'd really like to see an attribution on that.
>Hey, some of us put our money where our mouths are; if, after ten years
>of being distressed with virtually all of GM's products (except Saturn) I
>went out and bought a used Chevrolet, I would be opening myself up to
>being called hypocritical, no?
Why is Saturn so special? Why is it ok to criticize GM but still buy a
Saturn. Why is it wrong to criticize the Civic and Accord and buy an
Integra?
>Here's one on the fringe of this server: "I DON'T HATE HONDAS. I think
>their just incredibly overrated..."
And yet you keep insisting that I hate hondas. Amazing...
Let me give you a little clue... I very often play the part of devil's
advocate. Many of my posts in this group are only to offer some counter
balance to the many Japanese zealots who clog the airwaves with their
AMERICAN CARS SUCK posts.
Stop reading this message and go to the list of messages in this group.
Take a look at the titles. Do you see a pattern?
Why is the 'AMERICAN CARS SUCK' thread not bashing, and only criticism?
But to say something like "Honda's ergonomics aren't as great as you make
them sound to be." is bashing. I call that a double standard.
And maybe, just maybe, I bought this Integra because I wanted to experience
those warm fuzzy feelings that everybody talks about before it's too late.
I have a feeling that the japanese auto makers will be going the way of the
European auto makers in this country in not too distant future(i.e. priced
out of the common market). My father owned a Volvo back in the 60's. Why
can't I own an Integra in the 90's?
Tigress
Eric M Lam <em...@idirect.com> wrote:
>On 17 Sep 1995, Lloyd R. Parker wrote:
>
>For once I have to agree with Lloyd. At US$15000 the Civic is not cheap.
>Yet it does not offer anything the competition has, except for one: It's
>a HONDA.
Honda is doing the same thing Sony does, charge a sh*tload for the name. I
mean, check out the Passport which you could get cheaper from Isuzu, yet
it is the exact same car. I mean, I think Honda's are ok, but they have
gotten overpriced (some one I knew paid 22,000 for an Accord, no way am I
paying that much for a car that doesn't have great styling when I could
buy a Pathfinder or other sport ute for the same price).
Tigress
>
--
|\ _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gt3...@prism.gatech.edu
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat drawn by Felix Lee
Bentley
: >a Japanese car, especially from a manufacturer that builds 80% of its US
: >the tarrifs of last summer invest his dollars in a 0% US vehicle, one of
: >the few sold here, I might add?
:
: Maybe I saw the light?
Maybe Tinkerbell can fly again..
: >When someone says "All drivers of this brand are bad drivers," it's bashing.
:
: No, that's a joke... A very old joke, I might add, also misquoted.
You really want this one dug up?
: >Hey, some of us put our money where our mouths are; if, after ten years
: >of being distressed with virtually all of GM's products (except Saturn) I
: >went out and bought a used Chevrolet, I would be opening myself up to
: >being called hypocritical, no?
:
: Why is Saturn so special? Why is it ok to criticize GM but still buy a
: Saturn. Why is it wrong to criticize the Civic and Accord and buy an
: Integra?
You're still missing the point: I can quote chapter and verse concerning
poor experiences with GM vehicles, yet I still bought a Saturn. Why?
becuase they struck me as different. I gambled, and won. And you're
missing the dinstinction between discussion, criticism, and bashing.
Discussion: I like the looks of the Intrepid, and consider it a great
bargain, but am weary of the quality based on previous performances of
Chrysler products. (and then one would be expected to provide supporting
evidence for this opinion)
Critism: Chrysler has shown a marked lack of quality for several years,
and while it appears that they have improved in recent years, I'm going
to wait, or buy something else. (again, I like to see evidence, not
everybody does)
Bashing: Chryslers suck, and only an idiot would buy one. All other
products are better choices. (or) No driver would consider a Chrysler.
They are the equivalent of toasters or other appliances. (pure opinion,
often contrary to evidence)
See the difference? Ryan's comments about anything Japanese fall into
category three. You've had some there as well.
: >Here's one on the fringe of this server: "I DON'T HATE HONDAS. I think
: >their just incredibly overrated..."
:
: And yet you keep insisting that I hate hondas. Amazing...
No just that you consider them incredibly overrated. Which makes the
purchase of one, hm, odd.
: Let me give you a little clue... I very often play the part of devil's
: advocate. Many of my posts in this group are only to offer some counter
: balance to the many Japanese zealots who clog the airwaves with their
: AMERICAN CARS SUCK posts.
I make no apologies for such idiots, and have been known to employ
Swiftian tactics myself... :)
:
: Why is the 'AMERICAN CARS SUCK' thread not bashing, and only criticism?
Dude, get a grip. Who said that? I think anybody who posts such a thread
is a dork, and the odds are I won't even read it. Of course that's bashing!
: But to say something like "Honda's ergonomics aren't as great as you make
: them sound to be." is bashing. I call that a double standard.
Well show me someone who supports such a position and I'll support your
definition.
: And maybe, just maybe, I bought this Integra because I wanted to experience
: those warm fuzzy feelings that everybody talks about before it's too late.
: I have a feeling that the japanese auto makers will be going the way of the
: European auto makers in this country in not too distant future(i.e. priced
: out of the common market). My father owned a Volvo back in the 60's. Why
: can't I own an Integra in the 90's?
Steve, you're really missing it. Let me pose a question: Suppos Lloyd
announced tomorrow that he just took deliverly of a brand new Passat. And
that he was going to run it through it's paces all week and report back
to us. Would you be surprised, if not shocked? Or if Wyatt
whatshisname, Kershner I think, reported that he had jut orded a Lexus.
Wouldn't you, based on the dozens if not hundreds of messages that you've
seen from either poster, consider such a decision odd, if not even suspect?
That's all that's happening here.
Jeff Palmer
>it is the exact same car. I mean, I think Honda's are ok, but they have
>gotten overpriced (some one I knew paid 22,000 for an Accord, no way am I
>paying that much for a car that doesn't have great styling when I could
>buy a Pathfinder or other sport ute for the same price).
Do you mind telling me where you can get a Pathfinder for $22000? I
guess you mean a 4 cylinder. I was just at the Nissan dealer not too
long ago looking at '95 Pathfinders (HUGE disappointment) They are
more like $32000 if you get anything decent on them. And they still
have that crappy 1984 interior in them. $22000 for a 4 cylinder truck
that MAYBE cost Nissan $10000 to build? No thanks.
I'm waiting on the '96 Pathfinder and 4Runners. They'll probably be
even further out of reach when they do come out. Sport Utes in
general just don't represent a good value to me at all. Looks like
the Chevy Blazer might be an exception, though.
Jeff Palmer
'94 White Integra GS-r Sedan
'94 Red Integra LS Coupe
Steve Sheldon
>Steve, you're really missing it. Let me pose a question: Suppos Lloyd
>announced tomorrow that he just took deliverly of a brand new Passat. And
>that he was going to run it through it's paces all week and report back
>to us. Would you be surprised, if not shocked? Or if Wyatt
>whatshisname, Kershner I think, reported that he had jut orded a Lexus.
>Wouldn't you, based on the dozens if not hundreds of messages that you've
>seen from either poster, consider such a decision odd, if not even suspect?
>That's all that's happening here.
But yet you are very critical of GM, as you've stated, and yet you still
bought a Saturn. Isn't that odd as well?
Except, I don't ever recall saying anything really negative about the
Integra. I'm pretty certain that I've stated I'm glad I didn't buy the
Civic, and I don't particularly care for the Accord, especially my bosses
'92 which is uncomfortable as all hell on even short trips.
And I've always maintained an opinion that Honda builds good cars. And in
this case since I was primarily concerned with styling and features, I
accepted the higher cost of ownership of the Integra over my Neon. Now if I
was looking for an economy car, I think the Neon would be back on the tops
of my list.
I just as well could have purchased a Z28. While I'm also critical of GM,
I think it's a nice car and it fits in a very unique niche. However, I felt
that wasn't the image i wanted in a car. Never did get around to checking
on insurance, but I had a preconceived notion about that as well.
Now if Pico goes out and buys a Chrysler tomorrow, I'll be stunned. He's
actually made statements of your class #3 sort. I, however, have not made
such statements regarding Honda, or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
which you seemed to have missed.
Steve
I guess if people think it's odd... tough. I'm not out to win any
popularity contests. Especially on USENET. :)
Lloyd R. Parker
: : .edu>
: Distribution: usa
: Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: > Most of the Neon owners in my area are mainly older people. I don't
: > understand why. I suppose it appeals because it's so cheap and still has
: > space for 4 adults.
: The average age of Neon buyers is 38. They sell mostly 4-doors and
: over 80% automatic transmissions.
: I thought the Neon was supposed to compete with the Civic, etc. With
: everyone saying that the big advantage of the Neon over it's
: compeditors is performance, I find it hilarious that most Neons are
: driven by 40 year olds with 3-sp transmissions.
: Good thing you bought an Integra.
Most Civics sold are 102-hp DXs with automatics. Which a Neon with
automatic can handily outperform.
Cyrus J. Lee
she...@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) wrote:
> And I've always maintained an opinion that Honda builds good cars. And in
> this case since I was primarily concerned with styling and features, I
> accepted the higher cost of ownership of the Integra over my Neon. Now if I
> was looking for an economy car, I think the Neon would be back on the tops
> of my list.
>
> Now if Pico goes out and buys a Chrysler tomorrow, I'll be stunned. He's
> actually made statements of your class #3 sort. I, however, have not made
> such statements regarding Honda, or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
> which you seemed to have missed.
Steve,
I distinctly remember the pro-American anti-Honda stance in your posts.
You're now in the position of the boy who cried wolf one too many times.
You expect people to believe that you weren't sincere in your posts? You
attribute everything to sarcasm? That's a pretty cheap escape hatch,
Sheldon. Does that mean your posts really didn't say anything at all and
were worthless? That they were all inane, ignorant babbling? Hmm, I
think that's what I've been trying to say months ago.
> I guess if people think it's odd... tough. I'm not out to win any
> popularity contests.
Good, because you won't.
Bentley
: >Steve, you're really missing it. Let me pose a question: Suppos Lloyd
: >that he was going to run it through it's paces all week and report back
: >to us. Would you be surprised, if not shocked? Or if Wyatt
: >whatshisname, Kershner I think, reported that he had jut orded a Lexus.
: >Wouldn't you, based on the dozens if not hundreds of messages that you've
: >seen from either poster, consider such a decision odd, if not even suspect?
:
: >That's all that's happening here.
:
: But yet you are very critical of GM, as you've stated, and yet you still
: bought a Saturn. Isn't that odd as well?
Ah, but the difference is I bought the Saturn before I started posting to
this newsgroup; to find electronic evidence of my contempt for most
products from the General you'd have to dig up bbs artilces from The
Running Board in Maryland, circa 1986...
: Except, I don't ever recall saying anything really negative about the
: Integra. I'm pretty certain that I've stated I'm glad I didn't buy the
: Civic, and I don't particularly care for the Accord, especially my bosses
: '92 which is uncomfortable as all hell on even short trips.
You've said Integras have technology for the sake of techology, but I
beleive this was in reference to VTEC. Still...
btw, the Integra is a 5sp?
I think this all boils down to some of just being jealous... :) I want an
Integra too...
:
: I just as well could have purchased a Z28. While I'm also critical of GM,
: I think it's a nice car and it fits in a very unique niche. However, I felt
: that wasn't the image i wanted in a car. Never did get around to checking
: on insurance, but I had a preconceived notion about that as well.
Two very diffrent niches, tho; and the Z28's repair record is in the
bottom 10%, whil the Integra is in the top 10%.
: Now if Pico goes out and buys a Chrysler tomorrow, I'll be stunned. He's
: actually made statements of your class #3 sort. I, however, have not made
: such statements regarding Honda, or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
: which you seemed to have missed.
Fair enough.
Greg Ham
>Well speaking with regards to sedans (which I like), I can say that I'm
>at either extremes. German sedans tend to be very driver oriented while
>providing a nice touch of class and luxury, which I like. I like
>American sedans for their BIGGER and pig-iron mentality. Therefore, I'd
>like to have an Impala SS, and an A8. I tend to think that in general,
>the Japanese make sedans fitting between German and American: Moderately
>driver oriented, but doesn't have that
>kick-ass-I'll-run-you-over-and-do-a-burnout image.
>
Agreed.
>PS: I really don't disagree with "slight positive things" about Japanese
>cars. It just so happens we deal with issues about Japanese cars that I
>don't agree with.
>
>I'll agree to A+ quality, reliability and attention to detail.
>
>But I won't agree that an Accord or Camry is more fun to drive than a Passat.
>
In this sedan class segment, my votes go for the following:
If all I cared for were refinement (low NVH) and built quality: Camry.
Value: Cirrus LXi.
fun to drive: Passat GLX and Ford Contour SE.
Best combo of refinement, value, fun-to-drive: Accord EX.
-Greg
Dai F Toyama
>What happened to the '95 Saab 900. That's an awesome car btw, but IMO
>styled like an electronic-robot-mouse sniffing out for cheese.
Must have been designed after the cute Microsoft mouse. :-) I
personally prefer the 9000 in terms of the look.
Dai
Cyrus J. Lee
Haikal) wrote:
> Fair enough? huh? You let that "or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
> which you seemed to have missed"-weasel-out-of-my-past-year-of-posting
> statement slip under your nose? Unlike you, Steve, I stand behind
> everything I said (right or wrong). Maybe it's because when I tell that I
> can't stand Chryco. cars, I REALLY mean it. And when I say that I'd never
> buy one, I REALLY won't. As for you not having made "such statements"
> regarding Honda, I bet we could find more than a handful of people who can
> testify otherwise...
>
> Patrick
Amen, Pico.
Dai F Toyama
>In <43ruar$1...@news4.digex.net> ben...@access5.digex.net (Bentley) writes:
>>Tell you what: Digex has about the longest running newsfeed I've ever
>>seen; there are messages still there that date back to 1994. I don't see
>>the need nor do I have the desire to go back and paste together some of
>>your previous opinions on the Japanese, their cars, and those who buy
>>them. In fact, the entire thought would be dropped from my mind if you
>>do one little favor: Scan your Acura's title, redacting the key fields
>>of course, and post it on your web page. Because frankly there's a lot of
>>e-mail traffic going around that hypothesizes that you're just pretending
>>to have bought the Integrat so that you can claim what a horrible car it
>>is, this giving credence to your previous Honda-bashing.
>>A scanned image would certainly clear that up, so why not?
> HAhahahahaha!
> Oh, that's a hoot.
> Well, here's the VIN JH4DC4354RS022994. I'll see about scanning in a
>picture.
>Steve
Let's see. J = Japan, H4 = Acura Division of Honda, DC4 = Code name
for the current 4-door LS (the current 3-door GS-R is DC2 if I
remember correctly), 354 = ??? (one of the numbers tell you if the car
is manual or auto, but I forgot which one), R = 1994, S = Suzuka
factory,
and 022994 is a serial number. Makes sense to me. :-)
Dai Toyama
Dai F Toyama
>Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
>: Well, here's the VIN JH4DC4354RS022994. I'll see about scanning in a
>: picture.
>Please do. According to my latest crash guides, JH4DC... refers to 1995
>and later Acuras. But it could be wrong.
Actually, JH4DC... refers to the 1994+ Integras. The 1990-93 Integras
have JH4DA... (except for the GS-R) and JH4DB... (the GS-R). Mine
goes like, JH4DB2... I tried to find my title but can't seem to find
it...
Dai
>: Although, I still find it interesting how critical comments WRT Honda are
>: considered bashing. Yet bashing of American cars is considered proper.
>THIS is why some of us have trouble believing your purchase: Why would
>anybody who feels that criticism of American products is unpatriotic buy
>a Japanese car, especially from a manufacturer that builds 80% of its US
>sales in North America? Why would someone who was so much in favor of
>the tarrifs of last summer invest his dollars in a 0% US vehicle, one of
>the few sold here, I might add?
>When Hondas perform poorly, it's considered criticism.
>When American cars (including Hondas, btw) perform poorly, it's
>considered critisim.
>When someone says "All drivers of this brand are bad drivers," it's bashing.
>When someone says "Those smug people from country x deserve to have their
>ass kicked" it's bashing.
>Hey, some of us put our money where our mouths are; if, after ten years
>of being distressed with virtually all of GM's products (except Saturn) I
>went out and bought a used Chevrolet, I would be opening myself up to
>being called hypocritical, no?
>Here's one on the fringe of this server: "I DON'T HATE HONDAS. I think
>their just incredibly overrated..."
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick R. Haikal
>Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
>: Now if Pico goes out and buys a Chrysler tomorrow, I'll be stunned. He's
>: actually made statements of your class #3 sort. I, however, have not made
>: such statements regarding Honda, or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
>: which you seemed to have missed.
>Fair enough.
>Mark Bentley http://www.access.digex.net/~bentley
Fair enough? huh? You let that "or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
Power By Stickers
>>Steve Sheldon (she...@iastate.edu) wrote:
>>: Now if Pico goes out and buys a Chrysler tomorrow, I'll be stunned. He's
>>: actually made statements of your class #3 sort. I, however, have not made
>>: such statements regarding Honda, or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
>>: which you seemed to have missed.
>Fair enough? huh? You let that "or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
>which you seemed to have missed"-weasel-out-of-my-past-year-of-posting
>statement slip under your nose? Unlike you, Steve, I stand behind
>everything I said (right or wrong). Maybe it's because when I tell that I
>can't stand Chryco. cars, I REALLY mean it. And when I say that I'd never
>buy one, I REALLY won't. As for you not having made "such statements"
>regarding Honda, I bet we could find more than a handful of people who can
>testify otherwise...
I'd have to agree with Patrick here. I have witnessed many
anti-Honda comments from Steve before. In fact I remember
a few times where it would seem Steve would do a drive-by followup
JUST to make a anti-Honda stab. Writing it off as sarcasm
seems very weak to me too (as someone else mentioned).
It's more than sarcasm when you go out of your way to make
negative comments about the same company again and again.
Not trying to start any fights with Steve mind you, just trying
to keep him honest.
- Jeffrey
Eric M Lam
> Honda is doing the same thing Sony does, charge a sh*tload for the name. I
Hmmmm ..maybe that's why I always buy panasonic/Techins/National. Oh yes,
TV, hifi, discman ... even the rice-cooker!! =)
Eric M Lam
> Most Civics sold are 102-hp DXs with automatics. Which a Neon with
> automatic can handily outperform.
Gotta be the school. Here in UW or UT, most of the Civics are Si with
5-sp ...
Power By Stickers
> I still stand behind everything I've said. Honda's do break, the cost of
>ownership is generally higher, and they are generally overpriced in their
>market segments.
Ummm... Hondas are overpriced?? The term overpriced means
something like similar quality products are selling for less.
Show me a car with similar Honda quality selling for less.
The Neon. Priced less maybe, same quality? Doubt it.
Let's take the GSR. You can get one for $21k OTD with a lot
of options. It will do 15.4 in the 1/4 mile and get good mileage.
Show me the competition and the cost on them and performance.
A lot of mags agree, GSR is a good bang for the buck.
If you want raw performance go get a Camaro... otherwise
the well rounded winner is the R. All the other import compacts
competing against the R cost more money (a la MX6,
240SX, Celica, etc). No one seems to complain about these
cars being overpriced.
- Jeffrey
Power By Stickers
>jho...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Power By Stickers) writes:
>You might hate a
>football team but if you move to the town where they play you probably
>change your tune to support the home team. It's more Bravado and fun
>than all this you're making it out to be. He bought a Honda, the guy can
>change his mind. Sticking to something such as what's your favourite car
>dogmatically and humourlessly as you want him to is just silly.
Hey! Who ever said that? Have you been paying attention?
I don't have a problem with Steve coming around to Hondas,
but bashing them and then buying one and dismissing his
bashing as sarcasm is a weak excuse to me.
If he meant to be humorous in his posts, it sure didn't come
across that way. Bravado is fine with me ... but let's
put smileys when we need to okay?
>>It's more than sarcasm when you go out of your way to make
>>negative comments about the same company again and again.
>Sssshhh, it only the wind.
Oh okay.. so we're all supposed to shut up and never post
anything right? Just ignore everything! Heck why read
the groups in the first place??
- Jeffrey
Steve Sheldon
>I'd have to agree with Patrick here. I have witnessed many
>anti-Honda comments from Steve before. In fact I remember
>a few times where it would seem Steve would do a drive-by followup
>JUST to make a anti-Honda stab. Writing it off as sarcasm
>seems very weak to me too (as someone else mentioned).
>It's more than sarcasm when you go out of your way to make
>negative comments about the same company again and again.
>Not trying to start any fights with Steve mind you, just trying
>to keep him honest.
Hmm, generally I wasn't making stabs at Honda, I was making stabs at
posters.
I can give you a good example. A while back someone posted some statement
like "you can't go wrong with Honda", and then about 5 messages later there
was some guy posting about his lemon Civic.
It was just too funny to pass up.
The main problem is that there are a number of people who seem to be
brainwashed, and keep posting ridiculous over generalizations. I just find
it entertaining to followup and point out how silly they were being.
What is Usenet if not for entertainment? :)
Steve Sheldon
>Fair enough? huh? You let that "or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
>which you seemed to have missed"-weasel-out-of-my-past-year-of-posting
>statement slip under your nose? Unlike you, Steve, I stand behind
>everything I said (right or wrong). Maybe it's because when I tell that I
>can't stand Chryco. cars, I REALLY mean it. And when I say that I'd never
>buy one, I REALLY won't. As for you not having made "such statements"
>regarding Honda, I bet we could find more than a handful of people who can
>testify otherwise...
Oh dear. Pico seems to be star gazing. This is where someone takes their
pre-conceived notions and tries to make believe they are true. :)
I've never said I would never buy a Honda. Interestingly I seem to recall
spending quite a bit of time looking at Civics before I bought my Neon.
Maybe you weren't there at the time, but the Honda dealer seemed pretty
intent on my buying something from a competitor.
I still stand behind everything I've said. Honda's do break, the cost of
ownership is generally higher, and they are generally overpriced in their
market segments.
Now, I'm not exactly sure how one equates my making those types of
statements into a "I'd never buy a Honda, they are absolute crap!" opinion
like you seem to have of everything not made by Honda. But, I'm certain you
can come up with an answer. :)
It's very likely that had I not found this used Integra on the car dealer's
lot that I wouldn't have bought a Honda. Actually I was there because I
was looking at G20's, and if I had found one optioned out the way I wanted
at a good price I'd probably be driving on of those right now instead. Who
knows?
Well have fun, I really don't care.
Steve
Antonio S. Esporma
>
>> Honda is doing the same thing Sony does, charge a sh*tload for the name. I
>
>Hmmmm ..maybe that's why I always buy panasonic/Techins/National. Oh yes,
>TV, hifi, discman ... even the rice-cooker!! =)
>
>
>
Mark Levinson, Wadia, Cello, Infinity (the high end stuff that is).
Sony is just a bit player in the audio high end, most of the companies are
US or European, with a smattering of small japanese firms (Ongaku, Sumiko,
Koetsu...). And a high end rig will cost you as much as a bimmer. I guess
you could call my audio system "the ultimate listening machine"?
BTW, I do have an Infinity TV projector, two Sonys, one Proton and one RCA
TVs. And most of my video equipment is Sony -better quality than the
competition with the exception of Pioneer Elite Laserdisk players.
OTOH, our rice cooker and hot water thermos are Panasonic/National too!
They weren't cheap either. :-)
tony
Dai F Toyama
>David E. Brown <deb...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
>>You might hate a
>>football team but if you move to the town where they play you probably
>>change your tune to support the home team. It's more Bravado and fun
>>than all this you're making it out to be. He bought a Honda, the guy can
>>change his mind. Sticking to something such as what's your favourite car
>>dogmatically and humourlessly as you want him to is just silly.
>Hey! Who ever said that? Have you been paying attention?
>I don't have a problem with Steve coming around to Hondas,
>but bashing them and then buying one and dismissing his
>bashing as sarcasm is a weak excuse to me.
>If he meant to be humorous in his posts, it sure didn't come
>across that way. Bravado is fine with me ... but let's
>put smileys when we need to okay?
I just fail to see what the big deal is about one person who used to
bash Honda now buying one. He obviously changed his mind. That
doesn't mean he has to write a letter of apology or stuff to all the
rec.autos.driving netters or declare that he will discard all the
negative comments he made about Honda before.
If he hadn't liked the Integra, he wouldn't have bought one. That per
se goes to show that while he may have disliked Honda, he doesn't now.
If Lloyd decided to buy a Passat, I'd say the same thing. If Ryan got
an NSX, I'd say the same thing (well, I think). No-one is perfect.
Tastes change.
I happen to like Honda cars. I'm only too happy to know that one more
person on r.a.d. has joined our Honda club. I just can't see why this
simple feeling cannot be shared across. (Honestly, the first word
that came out of my mouth when I knew he'd bought an Integra was,
'Cool!'.)
Dai Toyama
>>>It's more than sarcasm when you go out of your way to make
>>>negative comments about the same company again and again.
>>Sssshhh, it only the wind.
Power By Stickers
>jho...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Power By Stickers) wrote:
>>I don't have a problem with Steve coming around to Hondas,
>>but bashing them and then buying one and dismissing his
>>bashing as sarcasm is a weak excuse to me.
>>If he meant to be humorous in his posts, it sure didn't come
>>across that way. Bravado is fine with me ... but let's
>>put smileys when we need to okay?
>I just fail to see what the big deal is about one person who used to
>bash Honda now buying one. He obviously changed his mind. That
>doesn't mean he has to write a letter of apology or stuff to all the
>rec.autos.driving netters or declare that he will discard all the
>negative comments he made about Honda before.
Um Dai, did you READ what I wrote? If you haven't been
following the thread, someone bashed Steve for buying a Honda
after he berated Hondas for quite some time now. He response
was he was was being sarcastic. Now you're up to speed.
Anyone who pubicly denounces something and then embraces
it is going to have a few eyebrows raise at least.
Now if you read what I said, it says "I don't have
a problem with Steve coming around to Hondas"
and then I say "dismissing his bashing as sarcasm is a weak
excuse to me".
>If Lloyd decided to buy a Passat, I'd say the same thing. If Ryan got
>an NSX, I'd say the same thing (well, I think). No-one is perfect.
>Tastes change.
Certainly taste/opinions can change. I am not objecting to that.
But look at your own opinion, IF Ryan got an NSX and dismissed
his bashing as "sarcasm" what would you say then?
>I just can't see why this
>simple feeling cannot be shared across. (Honestly, the first word
>that came out of my mouth when I knew he'd bought an Integra was,
>'Cool!'.)
Honestly the first thought of mine was, now that he has owned
one he can cite all his personal problems with it in order
to bash Hondas some more.
- Jeffrey
Power By Stickers
> Hmm, generally I wasn't making stabs at Honda, I was making stabs at
>posters.
Okay maybe I can see your point.
> I can give you a good example. A while back someone posted some statement
>like "you can't go wrong with Honda", and then about 5 messages later there
>was some guy posting about his lemon Civic.
I remember this message. This is one I had in mind. Understandably
with anti-Honda Steve, I took this as another stab at Honda
and not him trying to be witty.
> It was just too funny to pass up.
Put a smiley if you're trying to be funny Steve.
Sorry, but my Written Communication class is having
quite an effect on me this quarter.
> What is Usenet if not for entertainment? :)
Ya know, I remember a time when rec.autos.driving was actually
helpful. Now it seems like a newsgroup
where everyone lays out their <ahem> egos and
compete to see who can cut down the other guy
the best and the most.
- Jeffrey
Bentley
: >: Well, here's the VIN JH4DC4354RS022994. I'll see about scanning in a
: >: picture.
:
: >Please do. According to my latest crash guides, JH4DC... refers to 1995
: >and later Acuras. But it could be wrong.
:
: Actually, JH4DC... refers to the 1994+ Integras. The 1990-93 Integras
: have JH4DA... (except for the GS-R) and JH4DB... (the GS-R). Mine
: goes like, JH4DB2... I tried to find my title but can't seem to find
: it...
According to Kelly blue book, 94's were JH4DB. Oh who cares. :)
^
Bentley
Distribution:
Patrick R. Haikal (prha...@nando.net) wrote:
: >Fair enough.
:
: Fair enough? huh? You let that "or if I have there was a sarcastic tone
: which you seemed to have missed"-weasel-out-of-my-past-year-of-posting
: statement slip under your nose?
No, but I see no reason to fight a man for changing his mind. And to say
"I'll NEVER buy X" is silly; I did it once with GM and wound up buying a
Saturn years later. Of course, in 1983 the thought of GM EVER making a
car like Saturn was inconceivable. Things change. I was wrong.
Tigress
>TVs. And most of my video equipment is Sony -better quality than the
I don't know. The last few Sonys I have bought are peices of crap. I will
never buy Sony again. I don't want to pay so much for something that might
not even be that great (I used to buy only Sony Walkmans when they
actually were good). My RCA radio cost the same as a Sony one with no
advantages over the RCA except waterproof (the RCA had so much stuff Sony
did not offer on the radio. Sony's radio was basically a 150 dollar radio
that was waterproofed. It cost 300. While my radio had a remote for even
the tape player, some computer thingie which I never bothered learning, an
alarm, a digital radio, AMS, sleep, smaller, better design, etc. all of
which the equal (actually it was a little more) priced Sony did not offer.)
Basically, Sony overpriced just for their name, which is no longer that
good anyways.
Tigress
--
|\ _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gt3...@prism.gatech.edu
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat drawn by Felix Lee
Patrick R. Haikal
> The main problem is that there are a number of people who seem to be
>brainwashed, and keep posting ridiculous over generalizations. I just find
>it entertaining to followup and point out how silly they were being.
> What is Usenet if not for entertainment? :)
>--
>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Too true. Too many posters with too little knowledge. Anyways, Steve, I
can't (and won't) complain that you bought a Honda. Actually, I'm glad to
see you changed your mind.
Hope it's worth it,
Patrick
Steve Sheldon
>David E. Brown <deb...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
>>jho...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu (Power By Stickers) writes:
>>You might hate a
>>football team but if you move to the town where they play you probably
>>change your tune to support the home team. It's more Bravado and fun
>>than all this you're making it out to be. He bought a Honda, the guy can
>>change his mind. Sticking to something such as what's your favourite car
>>dogmatically and humourlessly as you want him to is just silly.
>Hey! Who ever said that? Have you been paying attention?
>I don't have a problem with Steve coming around to Hondas,
>but bashing them and then buying one and dismissing his
>bashing as sarcasm is a weak excuse to me.
>If he meant to be humorous in his posts, it sure didn't come
>across that way. Bravado is fine with me ... but let's
>put smileys when we need to okay?
Sheesh, have you ever thought of seeking psychiatric help for your
problem?
--
Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Steve Sheldon
>You think Sony is expensive? try conrad johnson, Audio Research, Krell,
>Mark Levinson, Wadia, Cello, Infinity (the high end stuff that is).
Yeah, but it's worth it! :)
B&O is an example of a company charging for a name without much content.
Although their stuff is nicely styled.
>Sony is just a bit player in the audio high end, most of the companies are
>US or European, with a smattering of small japanese firms (Ongaku, Sumiko,
>Koetsu...). And a high end rig will cost you as much as a bimmer. I guess
>you could call my audio system "the ultimate listening machine"?
Droool...
>BTW, I do have an Infinity TV projector, two Sonys, one Proton and one RCA
>TVs. And most of my video equipment is Sony -better quality than the
>competition with the exception of Pioneer Elite Laserdisk players.
I like JVC video equipment myself.
But I don't have that much money invested.
Let me think. Onkyo receiver, Sony CD player(third one, the first two
broke), Onkyo tape deck. VCR's from RCA and JVC. Speakers are Sheldon
specials(Vifa and Audio Concepts drivers) And TV's from Zenith and RCA.
It's too bad Zenith was just bought out by Goldstar. I had hopes they
might turn around. Now I forsee the same thing happening to Zenith that
happened to Fisher. Use the name to sell complete trash. :(
>OTOH, our rice cooker and hot water thermos are Panasonic/National too!
>They weren't cheap either. :-)
Our monitors at work are Panasonic(Viewsonic), and I have an old car stereo
from Technics that I replaced with an Alpine.
There's a lot of variety out there, and many good deals to be had in
consumer electronics.
But I have to agree with the original poster, I don't like Sony trash.
Except for my MDR-V6 headphones, the rest of their trash doesn't last very
long. :(
Mr. Hand
>
>In <44h93h$b...@lo-fan.jpl.nasa.gov> "Antonio S. Esporma" <tony> writes:
>
I know 'auto' and 'audio' look similar, but they do mean different things. See the name of the
newsgroup up there...that second word is autos--meaning cars, you know, those big metal and plastic
things we get in and _drive_.
>>You think Sony is expensive?
(3K about Sony deleted)
>Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
>
Didn't you used to have a Neon that you defended vehemently?
Steve Sheldon
>Honestly the first thought of mine was, now that he has owned
>one he can cite all his personal problems with it in order
>to bash Hondas some more.
Yeah, your absolutely right. I went out and blew an extra $6,000 or so
just so I could bash Hondas on rec.autos.driving.
Sheesh, you must think I'm independently wealthy.
No, I just bought the car because I liked the styling, it drove pretty
nice, had cargo space, and had lot's of things that I decided I wanted in my
car like a sunroof, and a 5 speed and such.
I originally had been looking at convertibles, but decided this was more
practical. It's a blast with both windows down, the sunroof open, driving
down the road! Not quite as much as a Miata, but then on the other hand I
can't fit 17" monitors in the Miata either.
Add to that, that I did decided that I thought it would be an educational
process to own a japanese built car. Sort of a diversity issue. One of my
friends kept trying to convince me to buy a BMW, but I just can't afford
those yet.
Steve
Sometime your going to have to give me a good definition of this bashing
term.
--
Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] '94 Acura Integra LS
Steve Sheldon
>Ya know, I remember a time when rec.autos.driving was actually
>helpful. Now it seems like a newsgroup
>where everyone lays out their <ahem> egos and
>compete to see who can cut down the other guy
>the best and the most.
Yes, I agree with you there. I occasionally unsubscribe to the driving
group for a while because it doesn't seem particularly useful.
Then I'll resubscribe and find the same flame wars continuing on.
I think I'll probably kill this thread after today. I don't see that
it's doing anything other than adding to the noise ratio. But welcome
email, if you so desire. :)
Bentley
: No, I just bought the car because I liked the styling, it drove pretty
: nice, had cargo space, and had lot's of things that I decided I wanted in my
: car like a sunroof, and a 5 speed and such.
Just to play devil's advocate here, weren't there any American cars that
offered these features?