Re: Alligator Causes 5-Car Crash
Harry K
> http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>
> BREA – A big-rig truck tire tread sparked a traffic collision
> involving at least five vehicles that held up traffic on the
> northbound 57 past Imperial Highway.
>
> Several vehicles initially blocked the No. 1, 2 and 3 lanes at
> Imperial.
>
> California Highway Patrol officer Alvin Yamaguchi said the accident
> happened while the drivers were swerving to avoid the tire tread in
> the road. Nobody went to the hospital, according to CHP officer J.W.
> Dunn.
Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
or not paying attention.
Harry K
elmer
> On Nov 17, 9:25 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>>
>> involving at least five vehicles that held up traffic on the
>> northbound 57 past Imperial Highway.
>>
>> Several vehicles initially blocked the No. 1, 2 and 3 lanes at
>> Imperial.
>>
>> California Highway Patrol officer Alvin Yamaguchi said the accident
>> happened while the drivers were swerving to avoid the tire tread in
>> the road. Nobody went to the hospital, according to CHP officer J.W.
>> Dunn.
>
> Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
Harry K
.. and casualties in Iraq, are caused by
inattention and failure to dodge ieds.
Utter nonsense
>
>
The Real Bev
> On Nov 17, 9:25 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>>
>> BREA � A big-rig truck tire tread sparked a traffic collision
>> involving at least five vehicles that held up traffic on the
>> northbound 57 past Imperial Highway.
>>
>> Several vehicles initially blocked the No. 1, 2 and 3 lanes at
>> Imperial.
>>
>> California Highway Patrol officer Alvin Yamaguchi said the accident
>> happened while the drivers were swerving to avoid the tire tread in
>> the road. Nobody went to the hospital, according to CHP officer J.W.
>> Dunn.
>
> Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
> or not paying attention.
Not necessarily. I just missed one that was flung up from the far side of a
truck two lanes over and maybe 50 feet ahead of me. If I'd been going just a
whit slower it would have hit me. I heard the bang and saw it flying.
Alligators fly faster than you could possibly imagine.
--
Cheers, Bev
When you wish upon a falling star your dreams can come true. Unless
it's really a meteorite hurtling to the earth which will destroy all
life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for.
Unless it's death by meteor. --Demotivators
Harry K
> Harry K wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 9:25 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>
> >> involving at least five vehicles that held up traffic on the
> >> northbound 57 past Imperial Highway.
>
> >> Several vehicles initially blocked the No. 1, 2 and 3 lanes at
> >> Imperial.
>
> >> California Highway Patrol officer Alvin Yamaguchi said the accident
> >> happened while the drivers were swerving to avoid the tire tread in
> >> the road. Nobody went to the hospital, according to CHP officer J.W.
> >> Dunn.
>
> > Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
> > or not paying attention.
>
> Not necessarily. I just missed one that was flung up from the far side of a
> truck two lanes over and maybe 50 feet ahead of me. If I'd been going just a
> whit slower it would have hit me. I heard the bang and saw it flying.
> Alligators fly faster than you could possibly imagine.
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> When you wish upon a falling star your dreams can come true. Unless
> it's really a meteorite hurtling to the earth which will destroy all
> life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, the first car ...or maybe two probably couldn't avoid. But 5??
Harry K
Harry K
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
so you think 5 cars piling up are unavoidable? Utter trash.
Harry K
Harry K
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Harry K <turnkey4...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
> >Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
> >or not paying attention.
>
You are establishing quite a custome. Anyone who has the temerity to
disagree with you is a troll.
Harry K
The Real Bev
> On Nov 18, 5:01 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Harry K wrote:
>> > On Nov 17, 9:25 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>>
>> >> BREA � A big-rig truck tire tread sparked a traffic collision
>> >> involving at least five vehicles that held up traffic on the
>> >> northbound 57 past Imperial Highway.
>> >>
>> >> Several vehicles initially blocked the No. 1, 2 and 3 lanes at
>> >> Imperial.
>> >>
>> >> California Highway Patrol officer Alvin Yamaguchi said the accident
>> >> happened while the drivers were swerving to avoid the tire tread in
>> >> the road. Nobody went to the hospital, according to CHP officer J.W.
>> >> Dunn.
>>
>> > Sounds like the real cause of 5 cars piling up was following too close
>> > or not paying attention.
>>
>> Not necessarily. I just missed one that was flung up from the far side of a
>> truck two lanes over and maybe 50 feet ahead of me. If I'd been going just a
>> whit slower it would have hit me. I heard the bang and saw it flying.
>> Alligators fly faster than you could possibly imagine.
>
> Yes, the first car ...or maybe two probably couldn't avoid. But 5??
Suppose it bounced off a few cars before I swerved into the car next to me,
which caused him to spin into the next lane etc... Things happen awfully fast
at 70mph. I found the damn alligator, which hit the median about 5 feet behind
me, absolutely amazing.
--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
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you be shipwrecked and find yourself stranded on a desert island,
bury the cable in the sand. A few hours later, a guy driving a
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Harry K
> Harry K wrote:
> > On Nov 18, 5:01 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Harry K wrote:
> >> > On Nov 17, 9:25 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>http://www.ocregister.com/news/suv-219725-highway-blocked.html
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The first couple of cars yes, too close to avoid. People are
_supposed_ to be follwoing at separation that allows them to stop in
case of unepected happenings before running into them. I realize in
modern, jammed freeways that is probably not possible. The "following
too close or not paying attention" still stands though.
Harry K
Harry K
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Harry K <turnkey4...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
Pretty week there Scott but I will admit that was a mess.
Harry K
Harry K
>
> Picking a diametrically opposed position, even though it's completely
> indefensible, simply so you can start an argument, is straight out of
> the GPSTroll playbook.
Now where would you get the idea dthat I was trying to start an
argument? I pointed out that the most likely cause of 5 cars piling
up was following too close and inattention. You got on your high
horse because someone GASP dared to disagree with one of your posts.
Harry K
Ad absurdum per aspera
> On Nov 18, 9:41 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Harry K wrote:
It's hard to say without the play-by-play reconstruction by the
accident investigators, but the initial article, indirectly quoting a
CHP officer, stated that they "swerved to avoid it." (As opposed to,
say, a gator flying up in your face so suddenly there's nothing to
do.) This evokes an image rather more like driver error to me.
One also wonders how many of those five cars were maneuvering and how
many were hit by the ones who were.
I've never seen a gator come off, but a friend was pretty close when
one did, and he describes a Camaro's-eye view of it as attention
getting! They're potentially the circumference of a truck tire and,
what, an inch or more thick? That's gonna leave a mark.
I wouldn't make a no-look emergency lane change in traffic to avoid
one -- it's a tire tread, not a boulder or a baby buggy -- and I like
to think I have the combination of skill and situational awareness to
see and avoid such a situation. Ditto for ladders, mattresses, sofas,
lumber, Hefty bags full of who knows what, and all the other things
that get deposited on the road.
But sometimes it just all happens too close and too fast in too much
traffic (or, on a California freeway, you figure the guy tailgating
you is so close and paying so little attention that an all-out
emergency stop is likely to put his hood ornament in your back seat)
and all you can responsibly do is hold your line and take your
medicine.
--Joe
gpsman
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Harry K <turnkey4...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
> >Now where would you get the idea dthat I was trying to start an
> >argument?
>
>
> You know full well (or at least you should) that traffic conditions on
> an urban freeway during rush periods would make it impossible to avoid
> flying debris such as a truck tire tread.
Straw man.
-----
- gpsman
Harry K
Yep. I live on a busy highway and have heard them come off.
Devinitely gets your attention. I used to have a wise ass of a
neighbor and we were BSing out front when one let go. Truck stopped
right in front of us, driver gets out, neighbor walks over, looks down
"I don't think you will be able to put a boot in that". I debated
fading rapidly into the distance. Fortunately the trucker took it
well.
Harry K
Harry K
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Harry K <turnkey4...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
> >Now where would you get the idea dthat I was trying to start an
> >argument?
>
>
> You know full well (or at least you should) that traffic conditions on
> an urban freeway during rush periods would make it impossible to avoid
> flying debris such as a truck tire tread.
Yes, teh first few cars, but what about the ones behind plowing into
the melee. I think I pointed that out before.
Harry K
gpsman
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Ad absurdum per aspera
> <jtch...@gmail.com> said:
>
> >It's hard to say without the play-by-play reconstruction by the
> >accident investigators, but the initial article, indirectly quoting a
> >CHP officer, stated that they "swerved to avoid it." (As opposed to,
> >say, a gator flying up in your face so suddenly there's nothing to
> >do.) This evokes an image rather more like driver error to me.
>
> >One also wonders how many of those five cars were maneuvering and how
> >many were hit by the ones who were.
>
> itself; the reset were swerving to avoid everyone else.
Straw man. The issue is driver error.
> > I wouldn't make a no-look emergency lane change in traffic to avoid
> >one -- it's a tire tread, not a boulder or a baby buggy
>
> Ah, but you *would* make an emergency lane change to avoid another
> car.
Straw man; "no-look emergency lane change".
> >But sometimes it just all happens too close and too fast in too much
> >traffic (or, on a California freeway, you figure the guy tailgating
> >you is so close and paying so little attention that an all-out
> >emergency stop is likely to put his hood ornament in your back seat)
>
> It doesn't even have to involve tailgating. The car next to you
> swerves to avoid the alligator; he cuts into your lane 2 feet in front
> of you; your choices at that point are to T-bone him or swerve and hit
> the guy next to you.
Straw men; Example lacks differential of velocities.
2 feet is a miss.
2 feet is a common SoCal lane change space cushion when most often no
"T-bone" or collisions with adjacent vehicle/s occur.
Swerving to change lanes is not uncommon.
(Where's that video of you proudly swerving through traffic?)
> Meanwhile, everyone around you is faced with the
> same decision.
Straw man.
> Bottom line, there is NO WAY to maintain a proper 360 degree space
> cushion in dense urban freeway traffic.
Straw man. A "proper 360 degree space cushion" is your own ridiculous
invention.
-----
- gpsman
Harry K
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Ad absurdum per aspera
> <jtch...@gmail.com> said:
>
> >accident investigators, but the initial article, indirectly quoting a
> >CHP officer, stated that they "swerved to avoid it." (As opposed to,
> >say, a gator flying up in your face so suddenly there's nothing to
> >do.) This evokes an image rather more like driver error to me.
>
> >One also wonders how many of those five cars were maneuvering and how
> >many were hit by the ones who were.
>
> itself; the reset were swerving to avoid everyone else.
>
> >one -- it's a tire tread, not a boulder or a baby buggy
>
> car.
>
> >traffic (or, on a California freeway, you figure the guy tailgating
> >you is so close and paying so little attention that an all-out
> >emergency stop is likely to put his hood ornament in your back seat)
>
> swerves to avoid the alligator; he cuts into your lane 2 feet in front
> of you; your choices at that point are to T-bone him or swerve and hit
> same decision.
>
> Bottom line, there is NO WAY to maintain a proper 360 degree space
> cushion in dense urban freeway traffic.
Yep. I suspect that in such a situation, reflex will take over and in
spite of wanting to plow directly ahead, you will find yourself
maneuvering.
As for the crowded conditions, you are right you cannot maintain a 360
'safe zone' even in light traffic. Best you can do is not tailgate.
Even then your example of a car suddenly swerving into your lane
eliminates that.
Harry K