4x4 usefulness
Alan Young
most rural areas.
4-wheel-drive is not needed, generally unless one intends to go
off-road. And where can one go off-road in a suburban town? Perhaps in
the town park? Or maybe a neighborhood golf course? No, this type of
vehicle is useless to the average person. Unless he (she) plows snow.
Al Young
Mike Romain
I beg to differ. We owned 2 4x4's and used them all the time on the
street in 4x4. Both my wife and I got off our different shift jobs at
times when the snowplows hadn't touched the roads yet, her at 12 AM and
myself at 4 AM.
I even got paid extra on one contract to bring my 4x4 so we were
guaranteed we could get to the house and back in the ice and snow storms
when frozen pipes usually happen.
We also travel and have used it many many times in the snow on trips.
From the countless cars we plodded on by that were in the snowbank or
ditch, I would say the 4x4 was very useful.
I do think a 4x4 would be useless for someone as yourself who thinks it
is only for horsing around, folks like that go way too fast for the
conditions and just end up in ditches off ramps. Or do you live
someplace sunny and warm?
Mike (Up in The Great White North)
Lon
Actually, very careful research is behind this phenomenon. If everyone
in the USofA buys a true 4x4, rumor is it that someone named Alan Young
will scream himself to death after realizing nobody gives a rat.
SnoMan
helped put them in the pickle they are in today. It adds cost and weight
to a SUV and also reduces MPG 5 to 10% too. Detriot has done a fine job
over the years convincing public that they need 4wd when 99% of the time
even a front wheel drive will get you through and with better stability
and less quirks too.
C. E. White
"SnoMan" <ad...@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:zeednV00NLPI5DjU...@earthlink.com...
> You raise a very good point. It is great sales tool for Detroit and
> has helped put them in the pickle they are in today. It adds cost
> and weight to a SUV and also reduces MPG 5 to 10% too. Detriot has
> done a fine job over the years convincing public that they need 4wd
> when 99% of the time even a front wheel drive will get you through
> and with better stability and less quirks too.
Well I have a different perspective. I have a farm and use my truck on
that farm. In the past, I used 2WD trucks, but not anymore. I got
tired of either not using the truck to check fences during the winter
(becasue of mud, not snow), or in taking a chance on a long walk home.
Neither option is attractive. I don't see a 10% reduction in mileage.
More like 5% or even less. For a 2009 F150, the 2WD 4.6L 6 speed 2WD
and 4WD version are rated the same mpg by the EPA. My 2009 F150 4WD
gets better mileage than my 1992 2WD F150.
I also own an AWD Fusion. Even though this is an "on demand" type AWD
system (as opposed to a full time system with a center differential),
I still noticed a significant difference in the handling on some
surfaces. I never have any wheel spin. The 2WD version I tested
defintiely handled worse on wet roads. I have my favorite traction
test - an uphill drive with a metal grate. The 2WD version spun the
tires on the grate. The AWD version never does. According to the EPA,
the AWD does significantly affect the fuel economy of a Fusion (almost
8%). However, I routinely exceed the EPA ratings. The combined EPA
rating for a 2007 Fusion AWD is 19 mpg. My average fuel economy is 22
mpg. I've never done as poorly as the city ratig (17) and I routinely
exceed the EPA highway rating (24) by 4 mpg despite routinely driving
70 mph (or more) on the highway. Now maybe the 2WD version would do
even better, but I am satisfied.
Ed
SnoMan
Farm use is different than a daily commuters needs. ALso 4wd induces a
fals sense of security and has stability issue and control issue once a
skid starts in 4wd at speed. The only 4wd truely rated for speed on
slick surfaces are old fulltime units that use a true differential
between front and rear axles that prevent traction loss on slick surface
due to torque bind for differences in rolling radius's due to tire loads
and tracks in turns. I have seen MANY 4x4 SUV's in ditches over the
years because of over confidence that 4wd would keep them safe and then
when they start to skid they find they have next to no control to try to
get out of it unless they act quickly and get it out of 4wd. I have
owned 4x4's for over 35 years now and currently own 3 but the only one I
ever "used" 4wd on at speed on slick surfaces is a old Jeep J20 P/U that
has Quadratrac fulltime 4wd. It is superior to any conventional or
clutch based autotrac 4wd system on slick roads. When roads are
bad/slick I feel more secure in a good front wheel drive car or my 4x4
that has studs on all for wheels (and running in 2wd too) than in a 4x4
with conventional 4x4 drive and no studs. I have been plowing snow for
over 25 years now and I know what works best on slick roads and what
does not because I have pulled many of them out of the ditch over the
years that had thought they were invincible with 4wd.
SnoMan
Watch this guys advise! He is the same guy that used to brag a few years
ago about 33 inch tires on his Jeep with 3.31 axle ratios and what a
GREAT combo it was and that it was totally acceptable to loose most
usage of 5th gear and lug motor and have reduced performance too. He is
a legend in his own mind. While some do offer good advise, his is purely
ego driven and not one to bet your safety on. I am glad he does not live
around me so I do not have to worry about meeting him going sideways
down the road at me in my lane on a slick road because his ego over
stepped reality.
Mike Romain
>
> Watch this guys advise!
I see my not so favorite psychotic Usenet stalker is loose again. They
just let you out of jail?, been a while at least....
Mike
aarcuda69062
SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
Get your meds adjusted Jacob.
Comboverfish
> You raise a very good point. It is great sales tool for Detroit and has
> helped put them in the pickle they are in today. It adds cost and weight
> over the years convincing public that they need 4wd when 99% of the time
> even a front wheel drive will get you through and with better stability
> and less quirks too.
Finally, the 'room full of monkeys at typewriters' approach has paid
off. Thank you for the hilarious typo. Detriot is such an obvious
and appropriate nickname I can't believe I never thought of it!
Toyota MDT in MO
SnoMan
No, you just do not like being put on a leash that's all. You are a
legend in your own mind and offer dangerous advise on some matters. I
few years ago I whatch a few of your "clones" (those who kinda think
like you) wreck two Wranglers about 1 minute apart on a icy highway.
They like you thought they were invincible and ego driven traveling in
4wd at speed on a slick road and first one spun out and went in the
ditch and the second one spun out about same place and hit first one in
the ditch and kinda drove over it because it hit with such force. Both
were pretty new and totaled and one driver was seriously hurt too. Many
car before and after this that were not Wranglers and were not 4wd
passed this place with no problems. If it walks like a duck and quacks
like a duck it is a duck and same applies to you as you are a accident
waiting to happen and do not need others to take your misguided advise
on matters of safety. If you want me to leave you be, stop posting ego
driven BS advise as your comments are ripe for picking.
SnoMan
Guess again, (which is what clueless people do a lot) you are just as
full of it and do not even have right guy either.
rainm...@webtv.net
use..... dont care about how much it costs to replace the tires, dont
care what 6 qts of synthetic 10/30 oil costs along with filter every
3k..currently at 131K... dont care that I use high test gas, the gas
tank is 22 gallons, that 351 is a hungry engine, dont care about what it
cost when i say fill up, dont care what it costs to change all the
fluids regularly. I dont care because its fun to drive..... just
fun....
The thing that I do care and know, it is one of the widest, and some
what heaviest 4x4 out there in its class...95 vintage well kept, washed,
polished, detailed, derusted, and painted again (white), now with new
chrome bumpers (oe) type... and if by chance a little toyota, honda, or
one of those little cars etc hits me in the rear, the towing hitch will
probably destroy that little car, or if by chance somebody hits me in
the front, all i can say is good luck pal, all my passengers will be
safe. I laugh when the little fwd vehicles get stuck in the snow, or
unable to move because snow is packed rite into the bumper, one inch
ground clearance indeed, hummmmm. I enjoy the legroom, where my knees
aren't touching the steering wheel.. It's a 2 door, 5 passenger type,
with full leather interior, the smell of leather in morning... and a cup
of coffee...
so if u see a white suv, black trim, bumper hitch, chrome bumpers, and
it looks like the oj is passing u.... u just better move over to the far
rite lane,,, will be doing 80 mph, with plenty hp left... while your
little 1.8 4cyl is working hard just to go 60..
Fuller Wrath
studly this cretin drives, that thinning will soon arrive.
<rainm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15137-49A...@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net...
Comboverfish
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey, supposin' one didn't know anything about cars and had to decide
correctitude between Sowman and [everyone else], I 'spoze [everyone
else] would get the slight advantage due to their coherent and not-so-
insane sounding ramblings. WTH, I thought you got rid of him, Neil!
Toyota MDT in MO
rainm...@webtv.net
in your mother's basement? have u ever been to a race track? have u
ever heard of fireball roberts? richard petty? have u heard the sound
of dual cherry bombs with a 440? do u still kick tires when buying
that pinto.
Have u ever heard of sportsman class racing on a dirt track...... do u
know what a figure 8 means while driving a yellow school bus along with
about 10/15 other drivers, you should try it sometime...
cretin indeed, a cretin who enjoys life and grownup toys and doesnt
worry about the little things, or 12" tires, have u ever seen what
happens when a car with 12"/13" tires hit a pot hole what a site.
well its snowing outside, think i will have some fun tonite....
Comboverfish
> so if u see a white suv, black trim, bumper hitch, chrome bumpers, and
> it looks like the oj is passing u.... u just better move over to the far
> rite lane,,, will be doing 80 mph, with plenty hp left... while your
> little 1.8 4cyl is working hard just to go 60..
I've never seen any 1.8 liter equipped US destination vehicle have to
"work" as hard to go 60 as your vehicle's engine does. Work =
horsepower, conveniently enough.
Toyota MDT in MO
WW
"Alan Young" <crabb...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29704-498...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com...
where it rains so much that the dirt roads turn into 12 inches of mud. You
must be a city fellow. Warren
Fuller Wrath
fucking losers.
<rainm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24601-49A...@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
rainm...@webtv.net
also believe that democrats are for the workers too???
smart cars, democrats, global warming, taxes, user taxes, less unions
and more illegals working for the democrats, and to think I drive oh
nooooo... one of those dreaded big, 4x4 suvs.... simply unbelievable....
but i have been thinking of down grading my ride to a 94 transam.. 350,
6 speed.... (do u know what a manual transmission is, i bet u never
heard of a clutch or a clutch pedal)... i think i will keep them both...
summer car, and a winter car....
both belching gas guzzlers... love it..... the smell of rubber on the
road..nothing like it...
and speaking of carbon footprints,,,
how about a twin motor, military jet holds 12 passengers.. (the
ultimate suv).
do u know that the speaker of the house has this military jet plane for
her own use. She uses it to fly back and forth from ca to
washington,and other places. She doesnt worry about her carbon
footprint, and the suvs that demoract politicians drive, ohhhh the
carbon foortprints...... the earth is doomed...
i am not responsible for u not having any fun whle u are driving your
two seater smart car, while politicians are driving and flying suvs.
just kidding....
Fuller Wrath
<rainm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7120-49B9...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net...
rainm...@webtv.net
seater car, before a bst passes u and the gust of wind will blow u rite
off the road.... ...
Fuller Wrath
impress with those pea shooters?
<rainm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26400-49B...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
STU...@webtv.net
writesoon!
rainm...@webtv.net
testicals, to be driving a true 4x4....or even remotely interested in
vehicles...
Have another project jeep in mind... the ultimate....
late model cj type... the only thing worth saving is the frame.... a
aluminum body (4K).
a jeep 4.0 engine block, with a twist using a amc 4.2 head... turns the
4.0, to a 4.2.... and some other little things,,,
Will Honea
Unless the laws of physics have been "changed" by the new administration, it
ain't gonna do that. The displacement (4.0 -> 4.2) requires one of two
things: a larger bore and piston or a longer stroke of the existing piston.
Check the Jeep groups for the subject "stroker" - that's what you are
trying to accomplish. It does produce one helluva torque with the longer
stroke - wish I had one.
--
Will Honea
rainm...@webtv.net
forsure...also, a chevy pic up truck rear end will be using it for the
front... will have to put specially made seals for this too work.. but
the torque,,, and match that up with a chevy trans....
rainm...@webtv.net
have a dodge slant 6 75 vintage, the larger block, the rear end is
positrac.... (thebody is gone though), intake manifold 4 barrel from
the two barrel one.. .. been thinking of a postal jeep with some
alterations... getting the list together.....
Fuller Wrath
divide; think; speak; but they sure could drink and spend money.
"Will Honea" <who...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j_fAl.178833$EO2....@newsfe04.iad...
Fuller Wrath
true 4x4."
<rainm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25242-49D...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net...
Jeff
Postal Jeep?! Aack!
I drove those things for over 10 years on the job. Dodgy brakes and
steering made them dangerous at 40mph.
Single-wheel-drive caused them to get stuck in almost anything.
JT
rainm...@webtv.net
on the engine stand...
SnoMan
> Single-wheel-drive caused them to get stuck in almost anything.
>
> JT
>
Just for the record, there is no such thing as "single wheel drive" in a
vehicle like that. A open diff can only do one thing and that is send
the same amount of torque to BOTH wheels, no more, no less. A LSD, Posi
or locker can send more torque to one wheel than other one. To have one
wheel drive you would have to have a axle with a locker and a broken
axle on one side and then you would have 1WD. BTW, replacement lockers
actually are part time 1WD's in turns under limited power as they
"coast" outside wheel in a turn and drive inside one.
2009he...@gmail.com
> On 4/2/2009 12:57 AM, Jeff wrote:
>
> > Single-wheel-drive caused them to get stuck in almost anything.
>
> > JT
>
> Just for the record, there is no such thing as "single wheel drive" in a
Important information.
___________________________________________________________
SBJ: 4T65E
http://tinyurl.com/2lcjkv
(Confuses a 4T65e with a 4L65e and won't admit it.)
___________________________________________________________
SBJ: Dumb brake question
http://tinyurl.com/2ya3wo
(Discribes the wrong brakes and won't admit it.)
___________________________________________________________
SBJ: Front wheel bearings-2000 Blazer??
http://tinyurl.com/2j44zv
(Claims torque specs are wrong when they are not.)
___________________________________________________________
SBJ: Snoball Defense System v1.01
http://tinyurl.com/2okyfx
(Snoball breaks these out when he knows he's wrong
and doesn't want to admit it.)
___________________________________________________________