Windows 7 bugs
Soundhaspriority
encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these are
specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
1. Unable to take ownership of a folder created by Windows XP on an XP
partition in a dual boot machine. Workaround: boot XP and delete the folder.
Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0
2. Corrupts floppies. Actually changes the text! OR writes a floppy where
space is used, with no evidence of a directory. This was discovered while
attempting to prepare a driver floppy for an XP install. Workaround: use an
XP machine to write floppies. Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0.
3. Windows Live Mail spontaneously claims the inability to establish a
TCP/IP connection, both with mail and news servers. Workaround: restart
Windows Live Mail. Hardware: dual 4 core Nehalem server hardware.
I installed Windows 7 on two machines for development. Conversion of the
mail and DAW machines will be deferred.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Soundhaspriority
Upon wakeup from "sleep mode", hardwired ethernet adapter connects only to
the local network; no internet. This is actually an old Vista bug, but if
you skipped Vista, as I did, you might not be aware. This is a side effect
of power management for wireless adapters.
Workaround:
1. disable power management for the network adapter.
2. After performing "1", cycle sleep/wake once to restore connectivity.
"Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:UrydnQEPns2333bX...@giganews.com...
David Gravereaux
That is a possible alternate fix to Windows 7 bugs :) You can even try
Ubuntu before installing it using the LiveCD option on installer CD you
need to burn from the disk image.
--
geoff
"David Gravereaux" <davy...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:GK-dnUwHhrVR2HbX...@giganews.com...
What are you doing that all your posts come out blank, with attachments such
as (in this post) signature.asc and AT00057.txt .
Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software or
OS you are using ?
geoff
Soundhaspriority
"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:JpKdnWpjVpMo6XbX...@giganews.com...
Geoff, he wants to convert people to posting securely signed messages via
PGP. A backgrounder on this is:
http://www.jahitchcock.com/cyberstalked/pgp1.html
I can't read Dave's posts either. I have taken the trouble to take apart a
few of his posts to find out what he is about. His interest in usenet
appears genuine, but his posts are not unique enough, in my opinion, to
justify the extra effort.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Arkansan Raider
I was able to read it.
He wrote:
[quote]
[/quote]
---Jeff
David Gravereaux
> Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software or
> OS you are using ?
It's actually an artifact of the newsreader you are using as it doesn't
support RFC1847 properly. AT00057.txt was named so and mishandled by
your software, not mine. No PGP addon software is needed to read my
messages, only to verify it.
--
David Gravereaux
http://www.piacitelli.org/oe.php
It ain't me
--
cjt
Soundhaspriority
encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these are
my street where I'm the only one.
1. Unable to take ownership of a folder created by Windows XP on an XP
partition in a dual boot machine. Workaround: boot XP and delete the folder.
Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0
2. Corrupts floppies. Actually changes the text! OR writes a floppy where
space is used, with no evidence of a directory. This was discovered while
attempting to prepare a driver floppy for an XP install. Workaround: use an
XP machine to write floppies. Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0. Other workaround
- stop using floppies like every other cretin on the planet.
3. Windows Live Mail spontaneously claims the inability to establish a
TCP/IP connection, both with mail and news servers. Workaround: restart
Windows Live Mail. Hardware: dual 4 core Nehalem server hardware.
I installed Windows 7 on two machines for development. Conversion of the
mail and DAW machines will be deferred until daddy gives me my allowance.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Peter Larsen
From the traffic it appears to be an ubuntu bug.
> geoff
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Soundhaspriority
Path:
border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!post02.iad!news.buzzardnews.com!not-for-mail
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.20.0.090605
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:16:12 -0500
Brian,
I am so sorry that your daddy couldn't replace the damage to your sex
organs caused by your unfortunate childhood accident. If he had, you might
have grown up to be a decent person.
Regards,
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
David Gravereaux
...
> From the traffic it appears to be an ubuntu bug.
Demand standards compliance from your software vendors.
http://www.piacitelli.org/oe.php
There's a patch to fix OE @ http://tinyurl.com/2mq5fl
--
Laurence Payne
Fair enough. As your purpose is communication, and it's established
that some people aren't receiving your posts clearly, and a secure
signature is of no interest to this forum, doubtless you'll
immediately revert to a plain format?
Laurence Payne
You want to communicate, or you want to feel superior to Microsoft?
David Gravereaux
> Geoff, he wants to convert people to posting securely signed messages
> via PGP.
Convert, gosh no. It isn't a double-ended thing to be able to read a
message I post (when signed). The only problem here is that the
newsreader you are using has a bug in it where any message that is type
'multipart/signed' who's first part is of type 'text/plain' is
misunderstood to be an attachment rather than the body to be displayed.
Demand standard compliant software from your vendors.
--
Peter Larsen
>> It ain't me
Mr. Gravereaux will be complete satisified with feeling superior to
everybody, last time this was discussed may newwgroup users took affirmative
action to avoid the risk of disagreeing with one of his empty posts and
decided on not contradicting him so as to avoid hurting his emotions.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Scott Dorsey
He insists on MIME-encoding everything to add a signature file. Most
newsreaders don't know what to do with MIME. The ones that do, all have
different behaviours. The RFC basically tells you not to use MIME for
usenet, so to claim any of the particular behaviours is incorrect is sort
of wrong and sort of right. I don't see his posts any more because the
site two levels upstream from me has started discarding all MIME encoded
posts as part of a spam-prevention measure.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Richard Crowley
> "David Gravereaux" wrote ...
> What are you doing that all your posts come out blank, with attachments
> such as (in this post) signature.asc and AT00057.txt .
>
> Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software
> or OS you are using ?
He is sending MIME-encoded messages to Usenet which is NOT
recommended. The messages I have taken the trouble to open have
held no content that warranted the effort. If he ever has something
important to say, he will post it in plaintext like the rest of the world.
Meanwhile, it appears to be quite safe to simply ignore him. He has
a prime location in my twitlist.
Richard Crowley
> You want to communicate, or you want to feel superior to Microsoft?
The overwhelming evidence would indicate the second option.
hank alrich
Arkansan Raider
> He has a prime location in my twitlist.
>
Twitlist? LOL!
That's the first I've heard that one. I may be stealing that label in
another forum.
---Jeff
Scott Dorsey
Most Usenet clients don't understand MIME at all, which means the text
is readable, but it's surrounded by a whole lot of other unnecessary
junk which only wastes bandwidth and is of limited benefit. Microsoft
OE attempts to do it, but it does so in a rather boneheaded way. The
RFC says not to do it at all.
It's hard not to feel superior to Microsoft, mind you...
Richard Webb
> He insists on MIME-encoding everything to add a signature file.
> Most newsreaders don't know what to do with MIME. The ones that do,
> all have different behaviours. The RFC basically tells you not to
> use MIME for usenet, so to claim any of the particular behaviours is
> incorrect is sort of wrong and sort of right. I don't see his posts
> any more because the site two levels upstream from me has started
> discarding all MIME encoded posts as part of a spam-prevention
> measure.
Understandable, and a logical assumption since a lot of spam is mime encoded.
One of the disadvantageous of reading/editing online while
connected. I could institute pgp clear signing here without resorting to mime encoding, as articles for usenet I type
are discreet text files opened with my editor. I could
easily insert the clear sign data, and then when I save the
file and send the article all would truly be in plaintext,
no mime encoding needed. PEople did it over fIdonet all the time, and in the days before broadband connections were
ubiquitous when using offline readers.
I've found the whole mime thing to be unreliable anyway.
FIles I receive which are uuencoded always decode properly.
Mime encoded sometimes they do, sometimes not.
Regards,
Richard
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet<->Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
Bob Eld
They don't open for me either. I don't bother with anything that wont open.
Yes I know, one can work around it, but why bother, there's plenty to read
on the Usenet without grubbing for stuff that wont open.
David Gravereaux
Well said Scott. Actually, the use of MIME in Usenet is neither
specifically permitted nor expressly prohibited. If you pull the
relevant RFCs, it looks something like this...
The current 'Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages' (RFC1036)
refers to directly to RFC822 by saying:
"
Therefore, the rule is adopted that
all USENET news messages must be formatted as valid Internet mail
messages, according to the Internet standard RFC-822.
"
The trouble here is that 'Internet Message Format' (RFC822) was
succeeded by RFC2822 where it does say MIME is legal and refers directly
to the MIME document series [RFC2045, RFC2046, RFC2049].
The message type I am using is PGP/MIME (RFC3156). PGP/MIME is based on
the services provided by RFC1847. Both are listed in STD1 (RFC5000) as
official standards.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.crypt/msg/d4f1d74630b1f254
--
David Gravereaux
...
> I could
> easily insert the clear sign data, and then when I save the
> file and send the article all would truly be in plaintext,
> no mime encoding needed.
That's called inline signing has has disadvantages as well. Most
notably, The cruft is all visible for all to see unless the MUA has PGP
understanding to strip the cruft. By using PGP/MIME, any MIME aware MUA
strips it for you... unless its broken in the OE case (and nothing is
shown as the body) or doesn't process MIME and the cruft is visible.
--
Don Pearce
If only you had something to say that was worth reading, then it might
be of interest to be sure that a post came from you. Unfortunately you
don't. Your irrelevant signature is inevitably the most interesting
feature of your every post.
d
Don Pearce
Go on then.
d
Mike Rivers
> The cruft is all visible for all to see unless the MUA has PGP
> understanding to strip the cruft. By using PGP/MIME, any MIME aware MUA
> strips it for you... unless its broken in the OE case (and nothing is
> shown as the body) or doesn't process MIME and the cruft is visible.
What language is this? It looks like English but I only recognize about
half of
the words. Surely it's not Proaudioese.
Les Cargill
It's Internet-ese. Try to look away quickly.
--
Les Cargill
geoff
Well this one is the first one that has come thru 'normally' from you.
'Normal' being the instantly readable just like everybody elses's.
geoff
geoff
"Arkansan Raider" <yom...@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:hcfvf2$pit$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> What are you doing that all your posts come out blank, with attachments
>> such as (in this post) signature.asc and AT00057.txt .
>>
>> Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software
>> or OS you are using ?
>>
>> geoff
>
Didn't say I couldn't read it - but I had to open the txt attachmentment,
unlike with everybody elses'.
geoff
geoff
> geoff wrote:
>> Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software
>> or
>> OS you are using ?
>
> support RFC1847 properly. AT00057.txt was named so and mishandled by
> your software, not mine. No PGP addon software is needed to read my
> messages, only to verify it.
And it is you, and only you, who triggers this bug in Outlook Express ?
geoff
hank alrich
Arkansan Raider
Roger that.
Just trying to help with diagnosis. I figgered the more info you had,
the better.
---Jeff
Les Cargill
My retinue is already wrinkled. Dumped in a hamper thoughtlessly.
--
Les Cargill
Richard Crowley
Probably still MIME encoded. You aren't supposed to be able to
read it.
Peter Kendell
Oh! Dat ol' religion!
Peter Kendell
Endof.
"Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:UrydnQEPns2333bX...@giganews.com...
> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I present the first bugs
> I've encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these
> are specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
>
> 1. Unable to take ownership of a folder created by Windows XP on an XP
> partition in a dual boot machine. Workaround: boot XP and delete the
> folder. Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0
>
> 2. Corrupts floppies. Actually changes the text! OR writes a floppy where
> space is used, with no evidence of a directory. This was discovered while
> attempting to prepare a driver floppy for an XP install. Workaround: use
> an XP machine to write floppies. Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0.
>
> 3. Windows Live Mail spontaneously claims the inability to establish a
> TCP/IP connection, both with mail and news servers. Workaround: restart
> Windows Live Mail. Hardware: dual 4 core Nehalem server hardware.
>
> I installed Windows 7 on two machines for development. Conversion of the
> mail and DAW machines will be deferred.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511
Soundhaspriority
In article AZSdnfq4Ss9tQnHX...@giganews.com, "geoff"
I tried to get everyone on Usenet to post using PGP several years ago. I was
shouted down by an ignorant minority who don't understand any more than how
to turn their computers on. I agree that we need much higher levels of
security for things like this.
http://robertmorein.blogspot.com/
"I don't really have a replacement career, it's a very gnawing thing."
Robert Morein
Dresher, PA
215-646-4894
Soundhaspriority
at that?
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
"Peter Kendell" <Peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:PKadnTviUJ2TI3DX...@bt.com...
Soundhaspriority
a tragic childhood accident, wrote...[forgery]
Path:
border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!post02.iad!news.buzzardnews.com!not-for-mail
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.20.0.090605
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:29:16 +1000
Subject: Re: Windows 7 bugs
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
Peter Kendell
sound system at shutdown time, elese it hangs.
Not the same as genuine support, though. M-Audio are working on it, I
believe.
"Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:5-adnaJWgs_eVnDX...@giganews.com...
Sean Conolly
news:DpWdneqQitHPjXHX...@giganews.com...
> Soundhaspriority wrote:
>
>> Geoff, he wants to convert people to posting securely signed messages
>> via PGP.
>
> Convert, gosh no. It isn't a double-ended thing to be able to read a
> message I post (when signed). The only problem here is that the
> newsreader you are using has a bug in it where any message that is type
> 'multipart/signed' who's first part is of type 'text/plain' is
> misunderstood to be an attachment rather than the body to be displayed.
>
> Demand standard compliant software from your vendors.
Such as...?
Sean
Sean Conolly
mime-type for PGP signatures.
I'd be more inclined to say it's a bug with your client. It should be using
multipart/alternative, with the plain text as one part and multipart/signed
for the other. That's the standard way to make sure your messages are
readable, I don't know of any current MUAs that don't support
multipart/alternative.
Sean
Sean Conolly
message news:32b_2009...@ftn.wpusa.dynip.com...
> I've found the whole mime thing to be unreliable anyway.
> FIles I receive which are uuencoded always decode properly.
> Mime encoded sometimes they do, sometimes not.
Ack! No no no no no!
The problem with uuencoding is that there was NEVER a standard for it.
Instead there were at least three different viraiants that came from common
usage, and there is no way to tell from the content which varient is in use,
and they aren't compatible. This was the one of the big reasons why MIME was
developed in the first place - to at least have a canonical standard.
What I've found is that the only way to reliably work with uuencoded
messages is - wait for it - put a MIME wrapper around it and give it a
uuencoded content-type.
Just for context - I've probably spent at least six months over the last
four years writing code to parse and transform email from everything our
customers use, including some very old and obscure systems and a lot of
one-off systems developed in-house. Maybe 30,000 messages a day with a 99.9%
success rate. Unlike audio production, I actually do know this subject area
fairly well.
Sean
Sean Conolly
> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I present the first bugs
> I've encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these
> are specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
My normal procedure is to stay at least one full product behind Microsoft's
latest OS. I guess now that Windows 7 is out I should really try out Vista
:-)
I've been using Windows Server 2003 for the last few years and love it -
runs eveything XP but uses less than 120M on boot-up. Runs great in a VM,
too.
Sean
Richard Crowley
> Just for context - I've probably spent at least six months over the last
> four years writing code to parse and transform email from everything our
> customers use, including some very old and obscure systems and a lot of
> one-off systems developed in-house. Maybe 30,000 messages a day with a
> 99.9% success rate. Unlike audio production, I actually do know this
> subject area fairly well.
Just for context, perhaps you haven't been hanging around Usenet
long enough to recognize an arrogant twit when you see one. I have
yet to see any these people post anything that justified any kind of
security or authentication. Appears to be a simple case of MIME
and PGP just to annoy the neighbors.
The length of this discussion greatly exceeds its significance. I'm out.
Soundhaspriority
"Sean Conolly" <sjcono...@yaaho.com> wrote in message
news:hcljgs$gk6$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:UrydnQEPns2333bX...@giganews.com...
>> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I present the first bugs
>> I've encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these
>> are specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
>
> My normal procedure is to stay at least one full product behind
> Microsoft's latest OS. I guess now that Windows 7 is out I should really
> try out Vista :-)
>
Yeah, right :)
> I've been using Windows Server 2003 for the last few years and love it -
> runs eveything XP but uses less than 120M on boot-up. Runs great in a VM,
> too.
>
> Sean
>
It depends upon whether you have a compelling need for RAM. Certain
programs, Avid, Adobe CS3,4, etc., are starved for memory with XP. Some guys
doing video with large hidef track counts need this. For them, it's worth
following their user groups. IT infrastructures running networked business
apps will have to be cautious. For them, file permissions bugs are major
headaches.
In spite of the bugs, I am rather impressed. I was developing on RC since it
became available, and now the release, and I have not had any crashes, or
incidents requiring reboot.
In the timeframe of the next year or so, graphics card computing based on
OpenCL will offer speedups very useful to the pro shops who currently have
to wait for rendering. On the other hand, there is no evidence that the
modest speed edge of XP in A/V work has been erased.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
brassplyer
> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I present the first bugs I've
> encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these are
> specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
>
> partition in a dual boot machine. Workaround: boot XP and delete the folder.
> Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0
How did you determine these are OS faults and not something else
getting in the way?
Personally, I plan to stick with XP until either someone points out a
compelling reason that not going to something else is colossally dumb
or Micro$oft makes it impossible to reactivate XP on an OS reinstall.
Arny Krueger
> "Sean Conolly" <sjcono...@yaaho.com> wrote in message
> news:hcljgs$gk6$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:UrydnQEPns2333bX...@giganews.com...
>>> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I
>>> present the first bugs I've encountered in a week with
>>> the release version. While none of these are specific
>>> to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach
>>> ;)
>>
>> My normal procedure is to stay at least one full product
>> behind Microsoft's latest OS. I guess now that Windows 7
>> is out I should really try out Vista :-)
>>
> Yeah, right :)
>> I've been using Windows Server 2003 for the last few
>> years and love it - runs eveything XP but uses less than
>> 120M on boot-up.
So does XP SP0, if you leave out the usual add-ons such as anti-virus. One
of the rather interesting things to do is to install XP SP0 and see how it
runs, and watch how its RAM use climbs as you add Service packs and the
usual add-ons like Anti-Virus. Unforutnately, there are some fairly common
things that don't run so well until you get up to SP2.
>> Runs great in a VM, too.
Virtual machines are probably not exactly the everyday drivers of most
people on an audio forum, and certainly not anything I'd run a high end
audio or video editing package on. I've been experimenting with them and
they are lots of fun, but its hard to find much practical use for them for
most people.
> It depends upon whether you have a compelling need for
> RAM. Certain programs, Avid, Adobe CS3,4, etc., are
> starved for memory with XP.
One need not use high-end video editing software to run into the problems
with memory starvation in XP. IME Adobe Premiere Elements can easily get
you there if you try to run it on a machine with a fairly typical software
load. I've seen XP so starved for RAM (4 GB memory, very large swap file)
that Ctrl-Alt-Delete will not bring up the task manager.
Running your 32 bit applications under Windows 7/64 on a machine with say 8
GB or RAM is a pretty simple solution problems like that. Given the current
pricing of RAM chips, its not a big expense. Frankly, if RAM wasn't so
cheap, and Windows 7/64 so relatively bug free, it would be crazy overkill.
Scott Dorsey
Umm... this is Usenet. We don't use MUAs here.
The standards for Usenet traffic and email traffic are very different.
The headers have some things in common, and you can run both through the
same uucp transport, but they are different.
The original poster also doesn't seem to have got this through his head.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Soundhaspriority
"brassplyer" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6ab5c5a0-a8f1-4126...@37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 30, 2:44 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> For those contemplating a switch to Windows 7, I present the first bugs
>> I've
>> encountered in a week with the release version. While none of these are
>> specific to audio, there is no such thing as a single cockroach ;)
>>
>> 1. Unable to take ownership of a folder created by Windows XP on an XP
>> partition in a dual boot machine. Workaround: boot XP and delete the
>> folder.
>> Hardware: Phenom II X4 3.0
>
>
>
> How did you determine these are OS faults and not something else
> getting in the way?
>
Since the folder was created when XP was booted, and the partition was not
accessed by W7 except by the explorer, and the operation failed under W7,
there is no possibility that the folder was locked by an application. Other
than that, taking ownership of a file by a user with administrator privilege
should unconditionally succeed.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
David Gravereaux
Scroll down to 'No binaries: "Usenet is Text"'
Never mind... I'll quote it here:
"
This isn't 1985. There are plenty of ways to exchange images and
software without hiding them in text.
No subhierarchy can allow posts of binaries. If necessary, a separate
"bin.*" hierarchy will be created for this purpose.
HTML and other verbose rich text formats are binaries. The only allowed
MIME types are: none (in which case the message must be in ISO8859.1,
since there must be a default and that's one that'll cover most of the
likely traffic), or:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=<any> OR multipart/signed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit OR 7bit
If the Content-type is multipart/signed, then the parts may be:
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
"
multipart/signed with application/pgp-signature is mentioned explicitly
as OK. Which makes sense to me as PGP/MIME was created to be used on
USENET. Any opinions to the contrary are just that.
If you happen to look at the raw view of this message, it follows the
above stipulations exactly.
--
Peter Kendell
"David Gravereaux" <davy...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:fZSdneaa5fic9XLX...@giganews.com...
madeofmeat
>
> What are you doing that all your posts come out blank, with attachments such
> as (in this post) signature.asc and AT00057.txt .
>
> Nobody else's do. Nobody. Is this an artifact from some bizarre software or
> OS you are using ?
>
> geoff
>
>
but seriously, I'm able to read his posts fine. I'm using Thunderbird
for my newsreader, on WinXP. Outlook Express can't read his posts
properly, i guess it's not standards-compliant, like Internet Explorer.
Peter Larsen
> Heh, nice sly dig at Linux there...
> but seriously, I'm able to read his posts fine. I'm using Thunderbird
> for my newsreader, on WinXP. Outlook Express can't read his posts
> properly, i guess it's not standards-compliant, like Internet
> Explorer.
As for standards, the standard for usenet is plain ascii. Also Outlook
Express happens to be a de facto standard that you have to allow for, it is
an ok newsreader and mail client with oe quotefix installed.
For a comparison that an audio guy will understand: cannon is "the standard"
for xlr, switchcraft actually are NOT standard compliant by having a rigid
plug body, but they are the de facto standard to allow for. It is as
irrelevant in this context that small t�chels have better electrical data in
terms of wriggle noise as it is in the newsreader context what netscape and
derivatives are capable of.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
geoff
As I said, EVERYBODY elses' post come through OK. Does that not tell you
something ?
geoff
David Gravereaux
> Why don't you demand I learn Esperanto while you're at it?
Deflection: A technique to transfer or turn away from a trigger in order
to prevent full recognition or awareness of associated material.
Demand standards complaint software from your vendor(s).
--
Peter Kendell
Mi elkore pardonpetas, Min ne povas aud vi. Bonvolu paroli pli klare .
David Gravereaux
...
> The original poster also doesn't seem to have got this through his head.
> --scott
See http://www.usenet2.org/usenet/rules.html
Scroll down to 'No binaries: "Usenet is Text"'
Notice that multipart/signed with application/pgp-signature is mentioned
specifically as an allowed use of MIME on Usenet.
--
David Gravereaux
Clearly not OE. That's up to you Sean. One list of newsreaders is
http://www.teranews.com/clients.html or
http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Internet/Clients/Usenet/Windows/
Most look to be binary group oriented. I personally like FreeAgent
and Thunderbird. Thunderbird is only good for text groups. I've heard
good things about MicroPlanet Gravity.
--
Peter Kendell
"David Gravereaux" <davy...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:NoydnYxdaZsFtW_X...@giganews.com...
John Williamson
"I'm right, and the rest of the World is wrong?"
And the word you are probably thinking of is "buffoons". HTH.
I've been followig this thread, reading all the posts without problems
as I use Thunderbird, but fail to see what benefit you think you gain
from ensuring that users of certain Microsoft products, as used by a
high percentage of the users of this newsgroup, cannot easily read your
posts.
Do you think what you write is important, in which case it makes sense
to make it accessible to all, or are you so full of your own
self-importance that you think that the majority of the users who can't
be bothered making the effort to read your stuff are so unimportant that
they don't matter?
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
David Gravereaux
> David Gravereaux wrote:
>> Peter Kendell wrote:
>>> There's a word for when you do it all by yourself :)
>>
>> is it "ignorant people think the world standardizes itself to broken M$
>> software and that the IETF is a bunch of bafoons"?
>
> "I'm right, and the rest of the World is wrong?"
Actually, that would be more like: I am following the limited use of
MIME allowed on Usenet and there happens to be one product line of
popular free mail clients that have this bug. The only people that are
wrong are the eight or so people that were responsible for the old OE
source code that now powers WLM along with the current WLM maintainers.
Those OE/WLM users should either accept the limitation of their
non-conforming client that oddly doesn't display a body where the proper
behavior is defined by RFC1847 or consider a different client that is
MIME capable for Usenet. Or even better if they jumped to
http://feedback.live.com and told them en masse about this long standing
bug. Maybe the complaint numbers have to go up so it gets priority?
Maybe they could copy this to paste in the description box?
I am calling to your attention a problem with MIME handling related to
multipart/signed (RFC1847/MIME-Encyp) where a signed message that
conforms to the 'OpenPGP Message Format' (RFC4880) does not
display the body of the message when the body Content-Type is
text/plain. The body is incorrectly presented as an attachment with an
invented filename rather than being displayed as per the behavior
described by MIME-Encyp for when an MUA does not support specific
verification method. text/html works, but is of course invalid on
Usenet as shown @ http://www.usenet2.org/usenet/rules.html (see
section titled 'No binaries: "Usenet is Text"'). This bug has existed
since 2001 apparently, while the standards track status of MIME-Encyp
predates that to around 1997.
I have sent enough of those notices myself, over the last three years.
In the meantime, my posting style will not change as it conforms to the
Usenet-II rules from 1998.
--
geoff
> .... something it took me some small effort to see, and effort that
> others don't afflict me with.
Not quite *all* of the ignorant people, it seems.
geoff
geoff
Ah, a jihad !
geoff
Jerry Peters
> [-- text/plain, encoding quoted-printable, charset: ISO-8859-1, 9 lines --]
No, but reading your posts in tin is a PITA as it asks if it should
use mime to decode your idiotic signature. Of course I reply no as I
*don't* care that you've digitally signed your post.
Jerry
David Gravereaux
Hi Jerry,
I'll guess and suggest a fix. Open ${HOME}/.tin/tinrc in your text
editor of choice and add (or edit/change) this line:
ask_for_metamail=OFF
http://www.tin.org/bin/man.cgi?section=5&topic=tin
--
Les Cargill
<snip>
Nobody like mimes, anyway.
Here, let me mime something...
....
See?
--
Les Cargill
geoff
Let me guess - you also use Linux ?
geoff
Bill Ruys
If you think I'm going to change news readers with the *only* advantage that
I can read *your* posts, you are mistaken. You are in self imposed exile.
Good luck to you though.
Bill.