High Quality CD-R
adam79
burning in iTunes. I currently use Verbatim CD-Rs. Just looking for
opinions.
Thanks,
-Adam
Scott Dorsey
Get a drive that measures error rate. Or find someone who can measure error
rate for you. Burn some different discs and find the blanks that give you
the lowest error rate.
In general, the lower the maximum speed of the disc, the better the error
rate will tend to be. 16x disks are okay, avoid the 52x ones like the plague.
In general, the 74 minute blanks will have lower error rates than the 80 minute
ones because the groove pitch is reduced. The 63 minute blanks were even
better but you can't get those easily any more.
Brands to look for include Mitsui (MAM-A), Taiyo Yuden, and Green Tune.
But the particular one that does best in your drive you'll have to find
yourself.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Richard Crowley
> Hi. I'm looking to buy a high quality CD-R for mix-downs and regular CD
> burning in iTunes. I currently use Verbatim CD-Rs. Just looking for
> opinions.
The highest-rated disc mfg on the planet for several years now
is Taiyo-Yuden. My failure rate has dropped to zero since I
switched to using T-Y exclusively. For both CDR and DVDR.
T-Y cost a few pennies more (literally), but well worth the few
cents for sterling reliability. I have had zero returns or failures
since switching to T-Y. I wouldn't use any others.
Beware that because of their premium reputation, there are
counterfeits, lower-quality discs with T-Y's label on them. Be
sure to buy from a reputable source. I buy both CDR and DVDR
exclusively from SuperMediaStore.
"How To Tell If You Have an Authentic Taiyo Yuden"
http://www.supermediastore.com/article/index/ff8080812015eafc0120166ec7480010?
Note that many "brands" (including Verbatim) are only marketing
labels and they OEM discs from whomever they can get a good
deal from that quarter. You are playing disc-roulette. T-Y is the
only label that I know of that you can be sure that they made it
themselves.
Lots more info here...
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm
including which kinds of Verbatim are good, how to read the
manufacturers code molded into the disc, and brand names vs.
who OEMs the discs, etc.
hank alrich
Richard, you're ace. Thanks for all that.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
http://www.armadillomusicproductions.com/CarryMeHome.htm
http://hankalrich.com/
adam79
>
> In general, the lower the maximum speed of the disc, the better the error
> rate will tend to be. 16x disks are okay, avoid the 52x ones like the plague.
>
If you burn the 52x at slower speeds, is the error rate still higher?
Thanks,
-Adam
Mike Rivers
> If you burn the 52x at slower speeds, is the error rate still higher?
It can be. It depends of stuff that you can't control. Generally the error
rate drops a few notches below the maximum rated speed, but if you
try to burn too slow, like a 52x disk at 8x, the error rate could increase,
or it might not work at all.
I still use a stand-alone CD recorder (which, by nature, records at
1x speed) and when blank disks started getting faster, I was having
difficulty finding blanks that would even pass the initial laser power
setting test. On the recommendation of someone here, I tried
Taiyo Yuden silver disks and they've worked fine. They're rated
at 52x, and work well at high speed in a computer. They cost about
three times as much as the office store on-sale disks (which generally
work fine in the computer for storing data) but they're still far
cheaper than any other media when you need something about
that size.
I use DVDs pretty rarely, and then only in the computer, and for data,
so I haven't had much experience with failures, not even with off-the-shelf
on-sale packages.
Scott Dorsey
If you burn the 52X at slower speeds, the overexposed image smears badly
and the error rate goes through the roof.
The whole point of the procedure is to get a nice well-defined dot or bar
on the disc, with as much contrast between the exposed area and the background
as possible. If you smear it into the background or you use a high speed disc
with a lighter dye, you don't get as good contrast and so the recovered data is
poorer. This is sometimes fine, but it might not be.
If you start out with the best image on the disk possible, your chance of being
able to play it in dodgy players is much better, and the chance of trouble
ten years down the road when the images are fading is that much less.
geoff
I did a test with Plextor Premium and Plextools that on one brand 48x disc
gave best results at 12x on a burner at 4 thru 48(?)x . Will differ on all
media/burner combos, but I now plumb for 25% max speed for audio discs.
geoff
geoff
> adam79 <ada...@toast.net> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>
>>> In general, the lower the maximum speed of the disc, the better the
>>> error rate will tend to be. 16x disks are okay, avoid the 52x ones
>>> like the plague.
>> If you burn the 52x at slower speeds, is the error rate still higher?
>
> If you burn the 52X at slower speeds, the overexposed image smears
> badly
> and the error rate goes through the roof.
Every burn should do a calibration automatically, but many newer burners
have trouble backing off the power sufficiently for very slow burns on (more
sensitive) 52x media. So the ols maxim of 'as slow as possible' is certainly
no longer true.
geoff
Laurence Payne
wrote:
>
>Every burn should do a calibration automatically, but many newer burners
>have trouble backing off the power sufficiently for very slow burns on (more
>sensitive) 52x media. So the ols maxim of 'as slow as possible' is certainly
>no longer true.
So they generally don't offer the slow speeds.
Arny Krueger
news:jengh55nitc90i5m6...@4ax.com
But those of us who record in real time using a CD-R have no choice of
speed.
Laurence Payne
wrote:
>>
>> So they generally don't offer the slow speeds.
>
>But those of us who record in real time using a CD-R have no choice of
>speed.
Yup. Like users of DAT, MiniDisk, tape and wax cylinders (to one
degree or another) you have the option of chasing ever-dwindling
supplies of your chosen medium, or moving on to something else.
geoff
Now THERE'S a valid case for compression/limiting on recording !
Of course you could all sing faster/higher, record at 2 x , and get home
quicker....
geoff
Adrian Tuddenham
I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
http://www.paulmorrismusic.co.uk/WaxCylinders.asp
--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Arny Krueger
news:OZKdndfIFOWWHIXW...@giganews.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Laurence Payne" <l...@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote in
>> message news:jengh55nitc90i5m6...@4ax.com
>>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:35:03 +1300, "geoff"
>>> <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Every burn should do a calibration automatically, but
>>>> many newer burners have trouble backing off the power
>>>> sufficiently for very slow burns on (more sensitive)
>>>> 52x media. So the ols maxim of 'as slow as possible' is
>>>> certainly no longer true.
>>>
>>> So they generally don't offer the slow speeds.
>> But those of us who record in real time using a CD-R
>> have no choice of speed.
> Now THERE'S a valid case for compression/limiting on
> recording !
Never use it. Ever hear of headroom?
> Of course you could all sing faster/higher, record at 2 x
> , and get home quicker....
I wish! ;-)
nebulax
Tuddenham) wrote:
> Laurence Payne <l...@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:24:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >> So they generally don't offer the slow speeds.
>
> > >But those of us who record in real time using a CD-R have no choice of
> > >speed.
>
> > Yup. Like users of DAT, MiniDisk, tape and wax cylinders (to one
> > degree or another) you have the option of chasing ever-dwindling
> > supplies of your chosen medium, or moving on to something else.
>
> I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
>
> http://www.paulmorrismusic.co.uk/WaxCylinders.asp
Ah, but can you get re-recordable ones? ;-}
-Neb
Scott Dorsey
>On Dec 4, 5:48=A0am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
>Tuddenham) wrote:
>> Laurence Payne <l...@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:24:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >> So they generally don't offer the slow speeds.
>>
>> > >But those of us who record in real time using a CD-R have no choice of
>> > >speed.
>>
>> > degree or another) you have the option of chasing ever-dwindling
>> > supplies of your chosen medium, or moving on to something else.
>>
>> I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
>>
>> http://www.paulmorrismusic.co.uk/WaxCylinders.asp
>
>Ah, but can you get re-recordable ones? ;-}
Sure, you just cut them down to a nice clean surface. That was the
advantage of wax over lacquers.
I can still get lacquers too, but there are only two suppliers left now.
That's life on the trailing edge.
Mike Rivers
> On Dec 4, 5:48 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
> Tuddenham) wrote:
>> I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
> Ah, but can you get re-recordable ones? ;-}
They're all re-recordable. You scrape them down with a razor blade.
Oh, but then you have to find a source for razor blades. ;)
Don Pearce
wrote:
What about a nice warm iron instead? There has to be some kind of use
for it.
d
Adrian Tuddenham
Yes, of course, they are sold for that purpose.
Paul Morris's Phoenix Brand are made from a medium grade of wax which
can be skimmed and re-cut up to about 10 times if you are careful.
The mean depth of the groove is only 0.0007", so you theoretically don't
need to take more than 0.002" off the surface to remove the previous
modulation completely. In practice you would cut a little deeper than
that, to allow for eccentricity when re-mounting the cylinder on the
mandrel and to get below any possible over-modulation. I normally skim
off about 0.0045" (it corresponds to one scallop on the adjustment
knob).
If you are interested, see:
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/CylinderRecorder.pdf>
Edison Amberols and hard wax cylinders were not re-recordable, but all
the other early types were. The only non-recordable ones nowadays are
the 'Vulcan' cylinders made by Duncan Miller.
Re-recordability was one of the reasons why wax cylinders continued to
be used for office dictating machines long after they had dropped out of
the entertainment market. A large office would have a cylinder shaving
machine in the corner so that the same batch of cylinders could be
re-used many times (office cylinders were thicker and could be shaved
more times than music cylinders). Then the company would be given a
discount on new cylinders if they returned the shavings and the remains
of the old cylinders for melting down and re-casting.
Adrian Tuddenham
It would have to be more than just 'warm', the melting point of some of
those recording soap-waxes is way above 100 C (probably nearer 200 C)
and the latent heat of fusion is enormous. I still have the burn marks
to prove it.
Laurence Payne
<neb...@earthling.net> wrote:
>> I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
>>
>> http://www.paulmorrismusic.co.uk/WaxCylinders.asp
>
>
>Ah, but can you get re-recordable ones? ;-}
According to that site they ARE re-recordable. A few times, anyway.
Don Pearce
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:
>Don Pearce <sp...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:13:30 -0500, Mike Rivers <mri...@d-and-d.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >nebulax wrote:
>> >> On Dec 4, 5:48 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
>> >> Tuddenham) wrote:
>> >>> I can get wax cylinders without any problem:
>> >
>> >> Ah, but can you get re-recordable ones? ;-}
>> >
>> >They're all re-recordable. You scrape them down with a razor blade.
>> >
>> >Oh, but then you have to find a source for razor blades. ;)
>>
>> What about a nice warm iron instead? There has to be some kind of use
>> for it.
>
>It would have to be more than just 'warm', the melting point of some of
>those recording soap-waxes is way above 100 C (probably nearer 200 C)
>and the latent heat of fusion is enormous. I still have the burn marks
>to prove it.
Time for an invention then. A tape recorder has an erase head that
precedes the write head while recording. How about a nice little
heating element that travels a few turns in front of the cutter? That
could be as hot as needed without danger.
d
Adrian Tuddenham
Good idea; but with the huge latent heat of fusion you would need a lot
of power in a very small space and some way of getting it out again in a
hurry. Wax is a poor heat conductor.
Some years ago I tried a heating system on my recording lathe, using a
halogen bulb focussed by a cylindrical lens to give a narrow line of
heat a few turns ahead of the cutting point. It wasn't done for erasure
in this particular case, but was just to cause enough temperature rise
to give a quieter cut on the warmed wax.
The uneven expansion and contraction of the wax played havoc with the
cutting depth and the overall expansion of the cylinder caused it to
come loose on the mandrel. Whilst the first effect would be of little
account on most recording lathes (which do not use fixed-path cutting
like mine does) the second is a potential disaster. If the cylinder
just comes loose, it will bump around and eventually fall off the
mandrel. If it is pushed further onto the tapered mandrel by a spring,
the end that has been heated and cut first will contract onto the
mandrel as it cools, then sieze and split lengthways as it shrinks back
to its normal diameter.
Don Pearce
(Adrian Tuddenham) wrote:
There's always something...
d
Adrian Tuddenham
It took Edison and Berliner a long time and a lot of experiment to
develop recording systems that worked. The infinite cussedness of
inanimate matter played a large part in those processes.
Perhaps a powerful laser focussed just a millimetre or two in front of
the cutter might work without causing too much overall heating - but I
haven't tried that.
mikea
> Don Pearce <sp...@spam.com> wrote:
Then perhaps a tiny jet of LN2 right behind the cutting point. The heat
capacity of LN2 isn't very much, so it shouldn't necessarily cause
distortion or cracking from differential contraction if things are tuned
right. I hope. It would be a matter for considerable experimentation.
But it certainly would be showy: the laser blazing away, scattered light
being seen in the condensation clouds, while the lathe turns in a truly
stately manner.
Much more spectacle than today's CD-based or disk based recording,
enormously more than a solid-state recording device, and better even
than large reels of tape turning.
You are to be congratulated on your experiment with the halogen lamp. I
hereby do so.
--
[Lotus Notes] is death by a thousand tiny annoyances--the digital
equivalent of being kicked in the groin upon arrival at work every
day.
-- Jeff Atwater
Mike Rivers
> Perhaps a powerful laser focussed just a millimetre or two in front of
> the cutter might work without causing too much overall heating - but I
> haven't tried that.
Isn't there something just a little incongruous about that? For that
matter,
why not cut the wax cylinder with the laser? And if you use a laser as the
pickup, you'd be on your way to making a CD.
Don Pearce
wrote:
>Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
A CD cylinder? Now that is something I'd like to see.
d
Adrian Tuddenham
> Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
>
> > Perhaps a powerful laser focussed just a millimetre or two in front of
> > the cutter might work without causing too much overall heating - but I
> > haven't tried that.
>
> Isn't there something just a little incongruous about that? For that
> matter,
> why not cut the wax cylinder with the laser?
There might be a problem with the smoke absorbing too much of the light,
also you do need the correct groove-bottom radius if it is to be played
back on an Edison phonograph. Perhaps angling a circular laser beam
along the already-cut groove would give a similar effect to a cutting
stylus?
For groove dimensions see:
http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/tec001/tec01.htm
Also, for office use, you wouldn't have any swarf to return for salvage,
so you wouldn't get your discount on the next batch of cylinders.
>...And if you use a laser as the
> pickup, you'd be on your way to making a CD.
Laser playback of cylinders has been done by Southampton University with
(eventually) amazingly good results. I recorded the calibration
cylinders which they used for their tests.
Richard Crowley
You may have come up with a new invention, Mike.
How about an optical disc with no pre-moulded pits, but just a big
blank surface where you could use a laser to write a continuous,
undulating groove, just like an LP. Of course, since it is 2D, you
could only get monaural. Oh well.
Adrian Tuddenham
Pictures of the lathe at:
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/images/IMG_3027s.JPG>
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/images/IMG_3028s.JPG>
larger versions:
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/images/IMG_3027.JPG>
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/images/IMG_3028.JPG>
Description:
<http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/CylinderRecorder.pdf>
It's quite fun to use, although the key to the whole thing lies in
minimising temperature changes. If the cylinder isn't within 0.3 C of
the mandrel temperature at the start of the cut, it will expand or
contract during the recording and the groove will either shallow-out or
the cutting tip will start to dig in. You put the wax blank loosely on
the mandrel and wait a minute or two for the heat of your fingers to
dissipate before doing any skimming or recording.
In the early days I had terrible problems with groove depth changes
until I realised that the heat from the inspection lamp was causing a
temperature rise. Now I use a low-energy bulb and don't get it too near
the cylinder.
PStamler
drug store chain in the US once again carries Gem single-edged razor
blades. They were never as good as Wilkinson Sword, but they're a
whole lot better than the ones designed for scrapers that you get at
the hardware store.
Peace,
Paul
adam79
This allows you to record right to record? How much are the actual
phonographs?
Scott Dorsey
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> I can still get lacquers too, but there are only two suppliers left now.
>> That's life on the trailing edge.
>
>phonographs?
Yes, if you want to cut cheap dub plates, you can do that also and make
a one-off without any additional processing. You can play them on any
phonograph you would like from a Close n' Play to a Platine Verdier.
The lacquers you use to make dub plates and to make master discs that will
undergo further processing are a little different; the master lacquers are
somewhat larger than the final disc to give a little extra metal on the
edges when they are plated. If you want a dub plate that you play directly
you just use a 12" lacquer.
nebulax
> Mike Rivers wrote:
> > adam79 wrote:
>
> >> If you burn the 52x at slower speeds, is the error rate still higher?
>
> > It can be. It depends of stuff that you can't control. Generally the
> > error rate drops a few notches below the maximum rated speed, but if
> > you try to burn too slow, like a 52x disk at 8x, the error rate could
> > increase, or it might not work at all.
>
> > I still use a stand-alone CD recorder (which, by nature, records at
> > 1x speed) and when blank disks started getting faster, I was having
> > difficulty finding blanks that would even pass the initial laser power
> > setting test. On the recommendation of someone here, I tried
> > Taiyo Yuden silver disks and they've worked fine. They're rated
> > at 52x, and work well at high speed in a computer. They cost about
> > three times as much as the office store on-sale disks (which generally
> > work fine in the computer for storing data) but they're still far
> > cheaper than any other media when you need something about
> > that size.
>
> > I use DVDs pretty rarely, and then only in the computer, and for data,
> > so I haven't had much experience with failures, not even with
> > off-the-shelf on-sale packages.
>
> I did a test with Plextor Premium and Plextools that on one brand 48x disc
> gave best results at 12x on a burner at 4 thru 48(?)x . Will differ on all
> media/burner combos, but I now plumb for 25% max speed for audio discs.
>
> geoff
I was having major playback trouble with discs I had burnt at 48x, and
after some experimenting with different speeds, I now burn at 16x. The
skipping and mistracking problems I was having at faster speeds have
pretty much gone away.
-Neb
david gourley
in...news:7no61sF...@mid.individual.net:
> "adam79" wrote ...
>> Hi. I'm looking to buy a high quality CD-R for mix-downs and regular CD
>> burning in iTunes. I currently use Verbatim CD-Rs. Just looking for
>> opinions.
>
> The highest-rated disc mfg on the planet for several years now
> is Taiyo-Yuden. My failure rate has dropped to zero since I
> switched to using T-Y exclusively. For both CDR and DVDR.
>
> T-Y cost a few pennies more (literally), but well worth the few
> cents for sterling reliability. I have had zero returns or failures
> since switching to T-Y. I wouldn't use any others.
>
> Beware that because of their premium reputation, there are
> counterfeits, lower-quality discs with T-Y's label on them. Be
> sure to buy from a reputable source. I buy both CDR and DVDR
> exclusively from SuperMediaStore.
>
> "How To Tell If You Have an Authentic Taiyo Yuden"
> http://www.supermediastore.com/article/index/ff8080812015eafc0120166ec748
0010?
>
> Note that many "brands" (including Verbatim) are only marketing
> labels and they OEM discs from whomever they can get a good
> deal from that quarter. You are playing disc-roulette. T-Y is the
> only label that I know of that you can be sure that they made it
> themselves.
>
> Lots more info here...
> http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm
> including which kinds of Verbatim are good, how to read the
> manufacturers code molded into the disc, and brand names vs.
> who OEMs the discs, etc.
>
>
>
I second buying the T-Y's from supermediastore.com !
david
Jay Ts
> "Richard Crowley" <rcro...@xp7rt.net> put forth the notion:
And I will "me too" that.
I use exclusively Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs and DVD-Rs, and I
also get them from Supermediastore. I agree with everything
Richard wrote about them.
I will add just one thing: When burning DVDs, sometimes
Nero will show a higher maximum burn speed
than is shown on the label of the package. IIRC, this speed is
encoded on the discs themselves, and is supported by my Plextor
drive, so Nero is happy to use it. I've found that it's
best to use the slower burn speed on the label, and not take
advantage of this "free" extra speed.
For the batch of 8x discs I have now, the maximum speed is shown
as 12x. It's not that much faster anyway.
Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php
Arkansan Raider
---Jeff
adam79
Does anyone know if Taiyo Yuden makes silver inkjet printable CD-Rs that
can print all the way to the center hole?
-Adam
Jay Ts
>
> Does anyone know if Taiyo Yuden makes silver inkjet printable CD-Rs that
> can print all the way to the center hole?
Look on the Supermediastore website for "Taiyo Yuden Silver Inkjet Hub
Printable".