compressing bass to tape
Ray Thomas
acoustic fretless bass signal going via bridge pickup/active DI direct to
half inch analog 8 track (Tascam 38). Volume of lowest string is getting
lost with no compression used. Any advice on settings (ratio, threshold,
attack/rel, etc.)is appreciated. Would the Really Nice Comp. be useful for
this application?
Ray
Mike Rivers
> Appealing to the collective wisdom on a method of applying compression to an
> acoustic fretless bass signal going via bridge pickup/active DI direct to
> half inch analog 8 track (Tascam 38). Volume of lowest string is getting
> lost with no compression used.
Let me guess. The track is already recorded. The bass player is
either (a) dead, or (b) currently on tour in the Antarctic and won't
be back for another six months. Since this is a blues about being
broke, you want to mix it and get it to the radio station before
tonight's income tax filing deadline. In either case, it's impossible
to do what you should be doing, and attack the problem at its source,
the bass, the pickup, or the player.
If you're still in the setup/tracking process, you may have a chance.
How does it sound acoustically? Is that string weak when you listen to
the bass? If it is, when was the last time the bassist changed his
strings? If it sounds fine acoustically, can the pickup be adjusted
easily? Perhaps it needs to be repositioned for more even pickup.
But if it's just a crappy bass or crappy pickup, you can't fix the
problem acoustically. If the bass sounds good but the pickup by
itself sounds weak on the bottom end, you might consider putting a mic
on the bass and combining it with the pickup - the mic to get the
bottom end, the pickup to add definition and brightness.
If you have to live with what you've recorded, I'd start out working
with equalization before you compress. Compression will smooth out
some uneven playing, but it won't correct for a bad instrument. Try
to bring up the low end with EQ first, then compress if you need to.
Another trick is to boost in the 600-900 Hz range to make the listener
think that he's hearing the low notes even though the system can't
reproduce them. (by the way, are you sure YOUR monitors can reproduce
the fundamental of those notes on the low string?)
Don't go out and buy a compressor to solve this problem.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
Eric Medley
other words, the acoustic sound was fine, otherwise you would have noticed it
before tracking.
2nd question, Does the meters show a significant level drop? If not, then
you've got a crummy room that doesn't speak well at that freq. or speaks too
well at other freqs.
If it is indeed the room, then just mix around it. That'll be your only
choice. It'll be there when you get it out to the real world.
Some basses are notorious for having dead spots and/or wolf tones (tones that
sound garbled or funky). Fixes for that are new strings, boil the old ones,
adjust the instrument's pickups or move the instrument around in the room to
get it out of the dead spot.
A compressor can help the problem a bit but in order to get the kind of
leveling your talking about you're really starting to screw with the sound of
the bass.
Scott Dorsey
I'd consider EQ before compression.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Earl Musick
>
If the bass is going to tape with a good level why compress, leave the
compression for mix down. what type of DI are you using, new bass strings may be
called for, and try some EQ, maybe even a different bass.
Peace!
Earl Musick
RockHouse Studio
http://www.reloadrecordcompany.com
http://www.mp3.com/EarlMusick
roc...@flash.net
If music ain't got an edge it's DULL
hank alrich
An RNC is a wonderful tool when compression is the answer to a question.
But maybe that's not the first answer we could seek here. Is the volume
of that lowest string matching the volume of the other strings
1. Right out of the instrument?
2. Coming out of the DI?
And, does the DI provide for preamplification of the instrument signal?
Most do not; they convert an unbalanced high impedance signal to a
balanced low impedance signal. But that is not what the recorder in this
case wants to see, so a preamp probably needs to be somewhere in the
chain.
--
hank alrich * secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
Carey Carlan
>
> Some basses are notorious for having dead spots and/or wolf tones (tones that
> sound garbled or funky). Fixes for that are new strings, boil the old ones,
> adjust the instrument's pickups or move the instrument around in the room to
> get it out of the dead spot.
Tell me about boiling strings. I've not heard of that trick.
How? What does it accomplish?
Eric Medley
of the best bass sounds I've ever got were from basses with boiled strings.
You boil the strings when they've gone just past the point of sounding good. This
varies with every player. It's usually the point where the bass has had the
strings on long enough to start sounding dull.
Here's the recipe for 'Boiled Bass Strings'.
You take the strings off the bass and wrap them in a circle. (Like they came in
the package)
Get a pot of water boiling vigorously.
Put the strings in and let them boil for about 10 minutes.
Take them out and let them cool down and dry. (it doesn't take long)
Put them back on the bass and viola!
The strings will not stay bright as long as a new set but it can give an old set a
few more weeks of life.
Some people claim that the act of boiling heats the metal up enough to 'bring back
the tensil stregnth a bit.' I don't know if I buy that or not. I think the
boiling gets a lot of skin oil out of the gaps between the windings and takes some
of the dullness out that way.
Chris T. Young
"Carey Carlan" <cca...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3ADC2FB5...@mindspring.com...
> Tell me about boiling strings. I've not heard of that trick.
>
> How? What does it accomplish?
The idea is, the strings are already stretched out, but are usually loaded
up (in and between the windings) with finger dirt ,oil and which makes them
sound dead and dull. Boiling them removes that gunk, restoring the sound of
the string. It works of course for any round wound string, guitars etc..
-Chris
Mike Rivers
> Some people claim that the act of boiling heats the metal up enough to 'bring
> back
> the tensil stregnth a bit.' I don't know if I buy that or not. I think the
> boiling gets a lot of skin oil out of the gaps between the windings and takes
> some
> of the dullness out that way.
I used to do this with my guitar strings when I couldn't afford to
replace them often. It did seem to brighten them up a bit, I suspect
mostly from cleaning the crud off them. The water got noticably
dirty. Boiling water doesn't get hot enough to affect anything in the
metal that's used for guitar or bass strings.
Of course now I'm an old retired guy who, although I could, doesn't
paly the guitar enough to deaden strings, so one or two changes a year
and it sounds good as new (but my playing doesn't).
Mark Richardson
> In article <3ADC4147...@inebraska.com> eme...@inebraska.com writes:
>
> I think the
> > boiling gets a lot of skin oil out of the gaps between the windings and takes
> > some
> > of the dullness out that way.
Don't forget, James Jamerson said it took a couple of years of being on his bass
before the strings STARTED sounding good.
-mark
Paul Winkler
(re. boiling)
> I used to do this with my guitar strings when I couldn't afford to
> replace them often. It did seem to brighten them up a bit, I suspect
> mostly from cleaning the crud off them. The water got noticably
> dirty. Boiling water doesn't get hot enough to affect anything in the
> metal that's used for guitar or bass strings.
...and yet I've killed more than one string by boiling. I have
no idea why, but every now and then you get a string that, after
boiling, has a "dull zone" - like, play above the 5th fret (or
wherever) and it sounds fine, play below there and it's got no
brightness at all. Very weird. I stopped boiling after the
second time that happened to me.
Now I wipe the strings with cotton balls & alcohol - works
pretty well.
Denatured alcohol is the best for this. Just gotta make sure you
don't get alcohol on the instrument, it's bad for the finish.
--
................... paul winkler ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
A member of ARMS: http://www.reacharms.com
home page: http://www.slinkp.com
S. Warner
> >
> > Some basses are notorious for having dead spots and/or wolf tones (tones
that
> > sound garbled or funky). Fixes for that are new strings, boil the old
ones,
> > adjust the instrument's pickups or move the instrument around in the
room to
> > get it out of the dead spot.
I'm seeing this gizmo that is basically a clamp that you clip onto your
headstock to add mass. It's made of brass or nickel of something. And by
moving it around; you can supposedly eliminate the 'dead spots' or 'dead
notes' on your bass.
Snake oil? Good idea? Alternate home made solution?
-Scott (Warner)
Jay Kahrs
>I'm seeing this gizmo that is basically a clamp that you clip onto your
>headstock to add mass. It's made of brass or nickel of something. And by
>moving it around; you can supposedly eliminate the 'dead spots' or 'dead
>notes' on your bass.
>
>Snake oil? Good idea? Alternate home made solution?
>
The Fat Finger or whatever? It's cool, they add mass to the instrument and add
can change the sound of it. Sometimes it works and sounds great, sometimes it
dosen't. They usually add some sustain to acoustic guitars which is the only
thing I've tried it on. I'm pretty sure it's made of brass.
---
-Jay Kahrs
Owner - Engineer - Producer
Mad Moose Recording Inc.
Morris Plains, NJ
http://www.madmooserecording.com
Eric Medley
that's interesting. I've never got the same results by boiling my guitar
strings. I've tried for fun. I'm one of those people who has to change my
strings after every gig. My skin oil is so acidic that it eats them alive by the
end of the performance. It does no good for me to wipe them down. They're toast
by the time I can do anything about it.
Perhaps I'll have to quit eating so many tomatos or something...
em
EggHd
Also, if you use a piece of felt to wipe down the strings after use, they will
last much longer, sound better and feel new. It works.
---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
Mike Rivers
> Now I wipe the strings with cotton balls & alcohol - works
> pretty well.
For a while in the '70's, David Bromberg was telling those who would
listen that he cleaned his strings with Dr. Bronner's Peppermint soap,
that he used to kill strings in one set, and he was able to keep them
alive for a few days that way. I tried it and it killed mine
immediately. Used the rest of the bottle to wash my hair and never
bought another.
Kabonger
was the 70's. ;-)
Jeff Maher
Garage Mahal Recording
Austin, Texas
Paul Winkler
That guy must have some very weird chemistry in his skin if
leaving soap deposits in the windings is an improvement!
You should've noticed that string cleaning is not listed in the
18 uses for Dr. B's soap. :) All One or None! Exceptions?
Eternally None!
--
................. paul winkler ..................
slinkP arts: music, sound, illustration, design, etc.
web page: http://www.slinkp.com
Brian Stritenberger
cleanser added to the water. I don't know how safe it is but it seemed
to work pretty well.
Brian
Willie K. Yee, MD
where it was before. The notch that the fret has worn into the string is
now on the top or side of the string, altering its tone qualities in the
length beyond the notch.
Paul Winkler wrote:
> ...and yet I've killed more than one string by boiling. I have
> no idea why, but every now and then you get a string that, after
> boiling, has a "dull zone" - like, play above the 5th fret (or
> wherever) and it sounds fine, play below there and it's got no
> brightness at all. Very weird. I stopped boiling after the
> second time that happened to me.
>
--
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry
http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band
http://www.bigbluebigband.com
Remove "DONTSPAM" from return address to reply.
Willie K. Yee, MD
unwound strings, possibly an electrolytic reaction with the metal of the
pan.
Brian Stritenberger wrote:
>
> A bass player friend of mine boils his strings with a bit of comet
> cleanser added to the water. I don't know how safe it is but it seemed
> to work pretty well.
>
--
James Spectrum
Brian Stritenberger <br...@recordingworkshop.com> wrote:
>A bass player friend of mine boils his strings with a bit of
comet cleanser added to the water.
Boiling works. I used to play bass about 15 years ago .. and the
strings were sooo expensive! But the "effect" lasts only for a
few days ... well I practised about 7-9 hours a day so it might
last a bit longer if you're a sane person ... :)
J.S.