@@ What component makes the least difference?? @@
*LifeIsGood*
Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
His point was that high-end cd players don't make that much of a difference
vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have to
agree.
From what I've heard and understand, the components--along with cables and
interconnects--that make the most difference start from the outside in; that
is, the speakers make the biggest difference, then amps, then preamp, then
cd player or transport/dac combo, and finally the cables and interconnects.
My past experience has lead me to believe that the speakers make the most
difference, followed by the interconnects and cables, then the preamp, then
the amps, then finally the cd player. I say this because my audiophile
friends and I compared a Sony Playstation ($129), tweaked with some pucks my
friend manufactures, to a Micromega Stage III transport/Sonic Frontiers SFDII
MK I DAC ($6000 value), and there was barely a difference. Subsequently, we
auditioned the Playstation to my current front-end setup on his system, which
consists of a modified Phillips transport (convincingly beat the Levinson 37),
and Audio Logic 34 dac, both worth about $7K combined, and it sounded
practically identical; my friend actually liked the Playstation over my
front-end on that particular comparison, although my dac needed to be broken
in a little bit more. We then tried it on my system, and mine sounded a bit
better. But when we compared the Playstation to the Meridian 508.24, the
Meridian was clearly better on his system.
Since then I have added the Dragon Pro II to my front-end and will compare the
Meridian to it in order to get some peace of mind, although I don't think
there will be that much of a difference. I don't know if I want to
compare the Playstation to my current front-end because I probably won't
be able to swallow the fact that a $129 Playstation, along with a few tweaks,
can keep up with an $8500 transport/dac/anti-jitter combo. I've also compared
numerous notable and moderately priced cd players to my front-end and found
only subtle differences. This doesn't mean that my front-end is mediocre; in
fact, it's one of the best I've ever heard, and I've heard plenty of other
front-end systems in pro shops and stereo shows. In conclusion, this leads
me to believe that you get less out of your money on cd players than on any
other component. What have your experiences been?
*LifeIsGood*
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
vnd...@nwu.edu
Johnny Y Boey
> I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
> Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
> Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
>
At Audio Review page and from a hotmail account? Obviously a troll.
> His point was that high-end cd players don't make that much of a difference
> vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have to
> agree.
>
then a Krell amp shouldn't sound different from a Pioneer receiver too.
Jer
<jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
>> I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
>> Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
>> Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
>>
>
>At Audio Review page and from a hotmail account? Obviously a troll.
>
Well if you believe can tell the difference between a Marantz and a
Levinson or Krell I guess you should get the more expensive player
assuming they are different in a good way.
>
>
>> His point was that high-end cd players don't make that much of a difference
>> vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have to
>> agree.
>>
>
I don't believe he is speaking for everyone, if he can not tell the
difference I don't see why he would spend more for a krell or
Levinson.
>then a Krell amp shouldn't sound different from a Pioneer receiver too.
>
If the question is which component makes the least amount of
difference I believe spending more dollars on a better amp would make
more of a difference than money spent on more expensive CD players or
cables.
>
>
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
>
> My experience is the matching among system components is more
> important than the performance of each.
> And unfortunately there is not a equation there!
> Front end is at least as important as the amp or speaker.
> The transport makes more difference than the DAC in most
> case. If your $7000 front-end is just as good as a $129 playstation
> then something is wrong in the system matching!
>
> David Wang
>
> In article <6nv0kj$g...@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
> vnd...@nwu.edu wrote:
> > I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
> > Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
> > Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
>
> > vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have to
> > agree.
> >
In point of fact, Marlon did NOT have to reveal he has financial support
from a commercial interest. He is as honest as they come. Brian is
wrong and out of line here.
Zip
BJRICHMAN
Any non-audio-related comments from English/Scottish "engineers" that attack
the messengers instead of the messages. :):):):)
That's the component that definitely makes the least difference! :):):)
Bruce J. Richman
dyw...@pdq.net
David Wang
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
*LifeIsGood*
be that all of my other components are so good--and I do have some damn good
components--that it makes any front-end sound good, and therefore any digital
source I try will only make subtle differences? This is where I believe the
law of diminishing returns greatly applies. For example, lets say that I have
the best components that money can buy (less the front-end); putting in a good
cd player or transport/dac vs. a superb cd player or transport/dac combo is
not going to improve my sonics so greatly. In fact, I'd be surprised if it
improved my sonics by 10%--at most. Now if I had mediocre components and the
above scenario were true, then the sonic differences would be more noticeable.
Also, I'm sure there are expensive cd players that will blow away a cheap
player, but I also believe that there are cheap players--although rare--that
can keep up with something 10 or 20 or even 50 times its price. I just think
that audiophiles are so supercilious about their components that they can't
admit an inferior and inexpensive player can compete with their high-end gear.
My components less the front-end are as follows:
Audio Artistry Dvoraks (latest version)
BEL MK IIIa monoblocks for panels
Cinepro 600X for woofers
Placete preamp
Magnan Signature cables and interconnects
All components connected to Tice Infinite Speed power cord running through
Tice Power Block III conditioner
*LifeIsGood*
>*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
>> I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
>> Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
>> Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
>>
>
>
>
>
>> vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have
> to
>> agree.
>>
>
>
>
>
his post because you happen to think that the Krell 300 is a great cd player
and won't admit that a cheap Marantz can keep up with it. It's
understandable.
Johnny Y Boey
> In article <35A38FC3...@ix.netcom.com>, Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >*LifeIsGood* wrote:
> >
> >> I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
> >> Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
> >> Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
> >>
> >
> >At Audio Review page and from a hotmail account? Obviously a troll.
> >
> >
> >
> >> His point was that high-end cd players don't make that much of a difference
> >> vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have
> > to
> >> agree.
> >>
> >
> >then a Krell amp shouldn't sound different from a Pioneer receiver too.
> >
> >
> >
> He was referring to cd players, not amps...duh.
Same thing, buddy. This good-for-nothing troll (who else would post a big header Levinson 39
SUCKS in a marketplace forum???) has no idea that power supply and analog gain/output stages
of the Marantz and Krell/Levinson are *vastly* different too. If these don't make any
difference, why should a Krell amp sound any different from a receiver???
JB
Arny Krüger
*LifeIsGood* wrote in message <6nv0kj$g...@news.acns.nwu.edu>...
>In conclusion, this leads
>me to believe that you get less out of your money on cd players than on any
>other component. What have your experiences been?
My criteria for "cost-benefit out of a component" would be probably the
quotent of the price of the most expensive alternative divided into the
price of the least expensive sonically transparent alternative. IME, by that
criteria, cables can be the least cost-beneficial.
Tom Albertz
>
> ..... For example, lets say that I have
> the best components that money can buy (less the front-end); putting in a good
> cd player or transport/dac vs. a superb cd player or transport/dac combo is
> not going to improve my sonics so greatly. In fact, I'd be surprised if it
> improved my sonics by 10%--at most. Now if I had mediocre components and the
> above scenario were true, then the sonic differences would be more noticeable.
I think most audiophiles would disagree. I have heard them say
that it takes a higher resolution system to reveal the differences.
I believe this makes more sense.
Stewart Pinkerton
Hmmmmmmmm. What was that about reducing the flame content? :-)
>Bruce J. Richman
Your post has been rated purely on it's content. :-)
OTOH, the answer to the thread title question is cables, followed by
amplifiers, presuming that both have been correctly engineered (but
not necessarily in Scotland!).
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Sandman
Tom Albertz <returnt...@what.fc.hp.com> wrote in article
<35A4EA...@what.fc.hp.com>...
I agree. Actually, I think some audiophiles would be willing to spend
several times the $$ to get a 3% to 5% front end improvement (expecting a
10% overall improvement from the front-end alone is wishful thinking, in my
book). Where one stops on the slope of diminishing returns is merely a
question of personal preference and, of course, the size of one's audio
budget. I, for one, wouldn't dream of blowing $25 grand on a CD
transport/DAC combo (though obviously there are some who would and do), but
would consider $3K for a Sony XA7ES, were it not for the fact that I'm
perfectly satisfied with my Sony X777ES (a $2K unit I got for $1K).
Sandman
David Mester
general answer is that EVERYTHING in a system makes a difference, and
people prefer different differences. Since there is no such thing as a
"reference" component or system, and different components react
differently to each other, the only way to determine whether a component
makes a difference in your system is to change it out with something
else.
David Mester
*LifeIsGood*
>*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>>
>> ..... For example, lets say that I have
>> the best components that money can buy (less the front-end); putting in a
> good
>> cd player or transport/dac vs. a superb cd player or transport/dac combo is
>> not going to improve my sonics so greatly. In fact, I'd be surprised if it
>> improved my sonics by 10%--at most. Now if I had mediocre components and the
>> above scenario were true, then the sonic differences would be more
> noticeable.
>
>I think most audiophiles would disagree. I have heard them say
>that it takes a higher resolution system to reveal the differences.
>I believe this makes more sense.
I don't know about that. Let's use the above scenario and put in a
top-of-the-line cd player such as the Meridian 508.24, Resolution 50 or Sony
XES7 vs. the best transport/dac combo out there, arguably the Levinson
30.5/31.5 combo, or something in that caliber, costing about 10 times more.
I'd be happy if I get a 5 percent improvement from the transport/dac combo,
and hoping for a 10 percent improvement is definitely wishful thinking.
Again, this point is most likely moot since the law of diminishing returns
applies differently for everyone. Nonetheless, I think my example is quite
plausible.
David Mester
>
> Let's use the above scenario and put in a
> top-of-the-line cd player such as the Meridian 508.24, Resolution 50 or Sony
> XES7 vs. the best transport/dac combo out there, arguably the Levinson
> 30.5/31.5 combo, or something in that caliber, costing about 10 times more.
> I'd be happy if I get a 5 percent improvement from the transport/dac combo,
> and hoping for a 10 percent improvement is definitely wishful thinking.
> Again, this point is most likely moot since the law of diminishing returns
> applies differently for everyone. Nonetheless, I think my example is quite
> plausible.
>
Agreed. I heard a system today that costs 300% what mine does, and I'd
say it sounds about 25% better. Mine has cost about $7000 in all.
David Mester
Sandman
Stewart Pinkerton
>I don't know about that. Let's use the above scenario and put in a
>top-of-the-line cd player such as the Meridian 508.24, Resolution 50 or Sony
>XES7 vs. the best transport/dac combo out there, arguably the Levinson
>30.5/31.5 combo, or something in that caliber, costing about 10 times more.
>I'd be happy if I get a 5 percent improvement from the transport/dac combo,
>and hoping for a 10 percent improvement is definitely wishful thinking.
>Again, this point is most likely moot since the law of diminishing returns
>applies differently for everyone. Nonetheless, I think my example is quite
>plausible.
Actually, I'd argue that the Sony XA7ES or Meridian 508.24 are
*better* than the ML 30.5/31.5, but I'd have to admit that the sonic
difference is very small. The purchase price difference, however, is
not quite so small..............
Johnny Y Boey
> vnd...@nwu.edu (*LifeIsGood*) writes:
>
> >I don't know about that. Let's use the above scenario and put in a
> >top-of-the-line cd player such as the Meridian 508.24, Resolution 50 or Sony
> >XES7 vs. the best transport/dac combo out there, arguably the Levinson
> >30.5/31.5 combo, or something in that caliber, costing about 10 times more.
> >I'd be happy if I get a 5 percent improvement from the transport/dac combo,
> >and hoping for a 10 percent improvement is definitely wishful thinking.
> >Again, this point is most likely moot since the law of diminishing returns
> >applies differently for everyone. Nonetheless, I think my example is quite
> >plausible.
>
> Actually, I'd argue that the Sony XA7ES or Meridian 508.24 are
> *better* than the ML 30.5/31.5
based on what?
Stewart Pinkerton
Based on them being single-box players with the associated opportunity
for much lower jitter levels. I suspect the ML 39 is also a better
unit than the 30.5/31.5, but I can't see anyone setting up a blind
test to prove it!
Johnny Y Boey
The assumption that single-box players always have less jitter is a myth. Definitely
not true. Jitter reduction is not as simple as reading the disc and delivering the
data to the nearby DAC board. Instead of speculating, get your hands on the ML
Reference setup and you'll be pleasantly surprised. I am a Krell guy and has been
brainwashed against Levinson for over 10yr. I recently tried out the 37/36S and it
was a revelation.
JB
*LifeIsGood*
auditioned the 37 with a throughly modified Phillips 870 transport I bought
from a mod guy who sold it to me for $1200. The modified Phillips annihilated
the 37. It was more musical, harmonically revealing, and had a hint of better
dynamics. He even thought the Camelot Arthur DAC for around $800 was better
than the 37; I disagreed and concluded that the 37 was a bit more musical
than the Arthur. All DACs were complimented with the Audio Logic 34 and his
own modified DAC. The Levinson stuff must sound great only with Levinson
gear, just like Naim components.
*LifeIsGood*
>vnd...@nwu.edu (*LifeIsGood*) writes:
>
>>I don't know about that. Let's use the above scenario and put in a
>>top-of-the-line cd player such as the Meridian 508.24, Resolution 50 or Sony
>>XES7 vs. the best transport/dac combo out there, arguably the Levinson
>>30.5/31.5 combo, or something in that caliber, costing about 10 times more.
>>I'd be happy if I get a 5 percent improvement from the transport/dac combo,
>>and hoping for a 10 percent improvement is definitely wishful thinking.
>>Again, this point is most likely moot since the law of diminishing returns
>>applies differently for everyone. Nonetheless, I think my example is quite
>>plausible.
>
>Actually, I'd argue that the Sony XA7ES or Meridian 508.24 are
>difference is very small. The purchase price difference, however, is
>not quite so small..............
>
>
other components through their ML 30.5/31.5 front-end. Good thing I don't
have much faith in their reviews.
Johnny Y Boey
> I can't see in the world how you found the 37/36S to be a revelation. I
> auditioned the 37 with a throughly modified Phillips 870 transport I bought
> from a mod guy who sold it to me for $1200. The modified Phillips annihilated
> the 37. It was more musical, harmonically revealing, and had a hint of better
> dynamics. He even thought the Camelot Arthur DAC for around $800 was better
> than the 37
what???
Johnny Y Boey
don't worry, they are really that good.
JB
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
>
> *LifeIsGood* wrote:
> > Then it must be *scary* as hell to think that the Stereophile reviewers review
> > other components through their ML 30.5/31.5 front-end. Good thing I don't
> > have much faith in their reviews.
> >
>
> don't worry, they are really that good.
>
> JB
Jonny:
I hope you do NOT mean that the 30.5/31.5 are that good, because they
are THAT BAD and they are grossly overpriced.
Your Uther will waste the 30.5.
Zip
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://www.sunshinestereo.com
Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores FL 33138
PASS Labs NOVA Acoustics Miranda CODA Audible Illusions CEC
Camelot Technology Audio Logic Parasound Kinergetics Cabasse
Chiro Benz Micro Gallo Acoustics Dunlavy Audio NEAR NHT Jadis
Niles Zenith INTEQ Crystal Vision Straightwire Mordaunt Short ESP
Rega Vans Evers Cleanlines Monster Cable ENTECH EAD Arcane Audio
Sunshine Stereo encourages all audiophiles to support their local
dealers. If you do not have a local dealer, we will gladly assist
you with all your audio and video needs! *** ENJOY THE MUSIC! ***
Tom Melanson
so they are "practically identical".
*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
> I just read a post in audioreview.com about a guy who concluded that his
> Levinson 39 and Krell 300 cd player sounds practically identical to a mid-fi
> Marantz cd player after auditioning all three in his and his friend's system.
> His point was that high-end cd players don't make that much of a difference
> vs. a much inferior player, and from my past experiences, I just might have to
> agree.
>
> front-end systems in pro shops and stereo shows. In conclusion, this leads
> me to believe that you get less out of your money on cd players than on any
> other component. What have your experiences been?
>
Johnny Y Boey
> Johnny Y Boey wrote:
> >
> > *LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
> > > Then it must be *scary* as hell to think that the Stereophile reviewers review
> > > other components through their ML 30.5/31.5 front-end. Good thing I don't
> > > have much faith in their reviews.
> > >
> >
> > don't worry, they are really that good.
> >
> > JB
>
> Jonny:
> I hope you do NOT mean that the 30.5/31.5 are that good, because they
> are THAT BAD and they are grossly overpriced.
> Your Uther will waste the 30.5.
I wish.
Stewart Pinkerton
>The assumption that single-box players always have less jitter is a myth. Definitely
>not true.
It is neither assumption nor myth, it is a measurable *fact*, as you
would know if you bothered to read technical reviews on these
products. There is *one* product on the market which avoids the excess
jitter of outboard DACs. Since you're so knowledgeable, what is it?
>Jitter reduction is not as simple as reading the disc and delivering the
>data to the nearby DAC board.
Correct, but do you have any idea what else is involved, and why an
outboard DAC will *always* be a retrograde step? Well, do you?
> Instead of speculating, get your hands on the ML
>Reference setup and you'll be pleasantly surprised. I am a Krell guy and has been
>brainwashed against Levinson for over 10yr. I recently tried out the 37/36S and it
>was a revelation.
Krell digital products were badly flawed crap until the launch of the
KPS20i. You'll have noticed that this is a one-box player.....
Try out the ML 39.
Johnny Y Boey
> Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >The assumption that single-box players always have less jitter is a myth. Definitely
> >not true.
>
> It is neither assumption nor myth, it is a measurable *fact*, as you
> would know if you bothered to read technical reviews on these
> products.
Nope, not all one-box players have low jitter. Reference quality digital separates can
have even lower measurement.
> There is *one* product on the market which avoids the excess
> jitter of outboard DACs. Since you're so knowledgeable, what is it?
>
> >Jitter reduction is not as simple as reading the disc and delivering the
> >data to the nearby DAC board.
>
> Correct, but do you have any idea what else is involved, and why an
> outboard DAC will *always* be a retrograde step? Well, do you?
>
Info is abound from various manufacturer and internet sites. You don't listen to jitter,
you only listen to the music, and the Levinson components sounded excellent to me. Try
auditioning for a change instead of bad-mouthing based on nothing.
> > Instead of speculating, get your hands on the ML
> >Reference setup and you'll be pleasantly surprised. I am a Krell guy and has been
> >brainwashed against Levinson for over 10yr. I recently tried out the 37/36S and it
> >was a revelation.
>
> Krell digital products were badly flawed crap until the launch of the
> KPS20i. You'll have noticed that this is a one-box player.....
>
Nope, the previous Krell separates aren't flawed at all. In fact, the MD10, Ref 64 and
others sounded very impressive in their time, even at their used price range today.
> Try out the ML 39.
>
I own one. Already have it for more than two months, and actually compared it to the
37/36S combo which I sold not so long ago (not because they sound worse, but I need the
money). The rest was ARC Ref1/VT200 and Thiel CS7.
JB
Stewart Pinkerton
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>
>> >The assumption that single-box players always have less jitter is a myth. Definitely
>> >not true.
>>
>> It is neither assumption nor myth, it is a measurable *fact*, as you
>> would know if you bothered to read technical reviews on these
>> products.
>
>Nope, not all one-box players have low jitter.
Well whoop de do. Absolutely *anything* can be made badly.
>Reference quality digital separates can
>have even lower measurement.
So name one that has lower jitter than the *best* one-box players.
>> There is *one* product on the market which avoids the excess
>> jitter of outboard DACs. Since you're so knowledgeable, what is it?
>>
>> >Jitter reduction is not as simple as reading the disc and delivering the
>> >data to the nearby DAC board.
>>
>> Correct, but do you have any idea what else is involved, and why an
>> outboard DAC will *always* be a retrograde step? Well, do you?
>>
>
>Info is abound from various manufacturer and internet sites. You don't listen to jitter,
>you only listen to the music, and the Levinson components sounded excellent to me. Try
>auditioning for a change instead of bad-mouthing based on nothing.
In other words, *you don't know*. It's the Meridian 861, which is the
only *true* reclocking DAC on the market. All other outboard DACs use
necessarily less stable VCO clocks, although there are several fine
units which come *close* to the best one-box players.
Try thinking for a change instead of blowing about your 'superior'
knowledge.
>
>
>
>> > Instead of speculating, get your hands on the ML
>> >Reference setup and you'll be pleasantly surprised. I am a Krell guy and has been
>> >brainwashed against Levinson for over 10yr. I recently tried out the 37/36S and it
>> >was a revelation.
>>
>> Krell digital products were badly flawed crap until the launch of the
>> KPS20i. You'll have noticed that this is a one-box player.....
>>
>
>Nope, the previous Krell separates aren't flawed at all. In fact, the MD10, Ref 64 and
>others sounded very impressive in their time, even at their used price range today.
Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
>
>
>
>> Try out the ML 39.
>>
>
>I own one. Already have it for more than two months, and actually compared it to the
>37/36S combo which I sold not so long ago (not because they sound worse, but I need the
>money)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
Johnny Y Boey
> >Info is abound from various manufacturer and internet sites. You don't listen to jitter,
> >you only listen to the music, and the Levinson components sounded excellent to me. Try
> >auditioning for a change instead of bad-mouthing based on nothing.
>
> In other words, *you don't know*. It's the Meridian 861, which is the
> only *true* reclocking DAC on the market. All other outboard DACs use
> necessarily less stable VCO clocks, although there are several fine
> units which come *close* to the best one-box players.
>
> Try thinking for a change instead of blowing about your 'superior'
> knowledge.
DEAD WRONG!!! I know full well. Just have no desire to rewrite everything since I know you
were trying to test me. I have read all about jitter reduction, but don't memorize them. I am
an audiophile and chemical engineer. I check out audio equipment, not design them. And unlike
you, I speak from experience, not from conjctures.
> >
> >
> >
> >> > Instead of speculating, get your hands on the ML
> >> >Reference setup and you'll be pleasantly surprised. I am a Krell guy and has been
> >> >brainwashed against Levinson for over 10yr. I recently tried out the 37/36S and it
> >> >was a revelation.
> >>
> >> Krell digital products were badly flawed crap until the launch of the
> >> KPS20i. You'll have noticed that this is a one-box player.....
> >>
> >
> >Nope, the previous Krell separates aren't flawed at all. In fact, the MD10, Ref 64 and
> >others sounded very impressive in their time, even at their used price range today.
>
> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
> already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
> were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
> even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
> act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
>
Only a few them are criticized. The MD10 and Ref64 sounded great.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Try out the ML 39.
> >>
> >
> >I own one. Already have it for more than two months, and actually compared it to the
> >37/36S combo which I sold not so long ago (not because they sound worse, but I need the
> >money)
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
>
see? You have zero experience, but like to mouth off anyway. BTW, I'm selling the No39 mint
with OBM for $4200 if anyone is interested. Also have a 36S mint with OBM for $3500 ($6500
list) shipped.
JB
*LifeIsGood*
>
>Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
>already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
>were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
>even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
>act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
>>
All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
Krell components are bright enough!. And he calls himself an audiophile.
The guy buys what he thinks is the best that money can buy, but is getting the
opposite.
Johnny Y Boey
> >
> >Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
> >already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
> >were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
> >even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
> >act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
> >>
>
> All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
> Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
> million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
> Krell components are bright enough!.
So you heard the rumor too? After you get out of college, and actually make some
money, audition one for a change. They are not bright at all.
What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably as big as
your whole apartment.
JB
Jer
>
>>
>>Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
>>already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
>>were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
>>even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
>>act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
>>>
>
>
>All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
>Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
>million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
>Krell components are bright enough!. And he calls himself an audiophile.
>The guy buys what he thinks is the best that money can buy, but is getting the
>opposite.
>
>
>*LifeIsGood*
>Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
>vnd...@nwu.edu
Fabio is an idiot, I don't think he even listens to his stereo. In
an interview in a magazine he was saying after a long day "stressful"
day at work, he would just go home and rearrange all of his cables.
He is purely in it for the big shiny toy factor.
Greg Pavlov
Jer (J...@elt.com) wrote:
:
: Fabio is an idiot, I don't think he even listens to his stereo. In
: an interview in a magazine he was saying after a long day "stressful"
: day at work, he would just go home and rearrange all of his cables.
: He is purely in it for the big shiny toy factor.
I don't know why he's an idiot: these are all toys. And
perhaps he is simply being more honest than most.
greg pavlov
[not affiliated with Canisius College]
Stewart Pinkerton
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> >Info is abound from various manufacturer and internet sites. You don't listen to jitter,
>> >you only listen to the music, and the Levinson components sounded excellent to me. Try
>> >auditioning for a change instead of bad-mouthing based on nothing.
>>
>> In other words, *you don't know*. It's the Meridian 861, which is the
>> only *true* reclocking DAC on the market. All other outboard DACs use
>> necessarily less stable VCO clocks, although there are several fine
>> units which come *close* to the best one-box players.
>>
>> Try thinking for a change instead of blowing about your 'superior'
>> knowledge.
>
>
>
>DEAD WRONG!!! I know full well. Just have no desire to rewrite everything since I know you
>were trying to test me.
We believe you. Of course we do..............
> I have read all about jitter reduction, but don't memorize them. I am
>an audiophile and chemical engineer. I check out audio equipment, not design them. And unlike
>you, I speak from experience, not from conjctures.
Oh right. So when you tell other posters that your audio knowledge is
vastly superior to theirs, you actually mean that you've spent a lot
of time in Daddy's hi-fi store, but you didn't bother to remember
anything that went on there. I think we get the picture. You're a
fraud, JB. Furthermore, I will *always* have around twenty years more
experience than you do.
>> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
>> already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
>> were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
>> even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
>> act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
>>
>
>Only a few them are criticized. The MD10 and Ref64 sounded great.
In your humble opinion..........
>> >> Try out the ML 39.
>> >>
>> >
>> >I own one. Already have it for more than two months, and actually compared it to the
>> >37/36S combo which I sold not so long ago (not because they sound worse, but I need the
>> >money)
>>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
>>
>
>see? You have zero experience, but like to mouth off anyway.
My comment relates to your credibility, not to the equipment. I just
love a guy who says he bought a 39 to replace a 37/36S not because it
sounded better, but because he *needed the money*!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
> BTW, I'm selling the No39 mint
>with OBM for $4200 if anyone is interested. Also have a 36S mint with OBM for $3500 ($6500
>list) shipped.
So, what are you buying to replace the 39? I guess it won't be a
Krell, since they dropped their inferior two-box solutions!
Incidentally, you had *two* 36Ss?
Johnny Y Boey
> > I have read all about jitter reduction, but don't memorize them. I am
> >an audiophile and chemical engineer. I check out audio equipment, not design them. And unlike
> >you, I speak from experience, not from conjctures.
>
> Oh right. So when you tell other posters that your audio knowledge is
> vastly superior to theirs, you actually mean that you've spent a lot
> of time in Daddy's hi-fi store, but you didn't bother to remember
> anything that went on there. I think we get the picture. You're a
> fraud, JB. Furthermore, I will *always* have around twenty years more
> experience than you do.
>
which doesn't mean anything. I got my on more highend audio equipment in one year than you do in
5yr. And stop that cheap shot, I have only been to his store no more than 6mth in the last 10yr.
> >> Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about here, but then we
> >> already know that from your previous comments. The older Krell units
> >> were widely and correctly criticised for very average performance by
> >> even mid-fi standards. Krell took a *long* time to get their digital
> >> act together, although the KPS20i certainly took up the slack.
> >>
> >
> >Only a few them are criticized. The MD10 and Ref64 sounded great.
>
> In your humble opinion..........
>
> >> >> Try out the ML 39.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >I own one. Already have it for more than two months, and actually compared it to the
> >> >37/36S combo which I sold not so long ago (not because they sound worse, but I need the
> >> >money)
> >>
> >> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
> >>
> >
> >see? You have zero experience, but like to mouth off anyway.
>
> My comment relates to your credibility, not to the equipment. I just
> love a guy who says he bought a 39 to replace a 37/36S not because it
> sounded better, but because he *needed the money*!!!!
>
DEAD WRONG!!! I did not buy the 39 to replace the 37/36S, but I found one at a great price and
wanted to try it out. I also had the Krell KPS20i, KAV300cd, Wadia 860, Camelot Uther2.0 on hand.
Love them all, but I only have two systems.
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right....................
>
> > BTW, I'm selling the No39 mint
> >with OBM for $4200 if anyone is interested. Also have a 36S mint with OBM for $3500 ($6500
> >list) shipped.
>
> So, what are you buying to replace the 39? I guess it won't be a
> Krell, since they dropped their inferior two-box solutions!
> Incidentally, you had *two* 36Ss?
Like my posts in RAM says, I'm putting everything up for sale, and keeping two that last. Love
them all anyway. The 36S is the same one I sold to my cousin, who is here for some new-technology
training. Initially he wanted to get it converted to 230V and haul it back to Singapore, but
changed his mind.
JB
Andrew Thibault
>
>Furthermore, I will *always* have around twenty years more
>experience than you do.
you're dead. :-(
teebo
Joe Duffy
Stewart Pinkerton
You got me! :-)
There again, who knows where r.a.o. will be in 20 years, even if I
fall over today?
Andrew Thibault
Stewart Pinkerton wrote in message <35aa7f43...@news.dircon.co.uk>...
>There again, who knows where r.a.o. will be in 20 years, even if I
>fall over today?
Take a snap-shot of today; RAO is likely to be exactly the same in 20 years.
Like my new sig? :-o
teebo
***************************
teb...@rochester.infi.net
"Go back to something you know about, like PCP manufacture or synthetic
cum."
-- Stewart Pinkerton
Stewart Pinkerton
>
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote in message <35aa7f43...@news.dircon.co.uk>...
>
>
>>There again, who knows where r.a.o. will be in 20 years, even if I
>>fall over today?
>
>
>Take a snap-shot of today; RAO is likely to be exactly the same in 20 years.
You're likely correct. :-(
>Like my new sig? :-o
Intriguing, but really only applicable to that doyen of the high-end
industry, Brian o'Neill, whose multitalented nature makes him a true
Renaissance man. Such a range of erudition is not given to many.
>
>teebo
>***************************
>teb...@rochester.infi.net
>
>"Go back to something you know about, like PCP manufacture or synthetic
>cum."
> -- Stewart Pinkerton
>
--
*LifeIsGood*
>> All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
>> Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
>> million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
>> Krell components are bright enough!.
>
> some
>money, audition one for a change. They are not bright at all.
>
YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
more money. Why should I audition Krell when I can hear how bright and thin
sounding they are at pro shops and hi-fi shows? Although I must admit their
reference components are very good, but waaaayyyyy over priced, like Levinson
gear.
>What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably as big
> as
>your whole apartment.
>
>
Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in front of
it.
Johnny Y Boey
> >> All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
> >> Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
> >> million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
> >> Krell components are bright enough!.
> >
> >So you heard the rumor too? After you get out of college, and actually make
> > some
> >money, audition one for a change. They are not bright at all.
> >
>
> YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
> over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
> more money. Why should I audition Krell when I can hear how bright and thin
> sounding they are at pro shops and hi-fi shows? Although I must admit their
> reference components are very good, but waaaayyyyy over priced, like Levinson
> gear.
Two big systems in an apartment? Must sound like crap.
Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so bright
1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
2) how come they measure perfect?
3) how come just a few months ago, you were so clueless about Krell? Remember, you
asked the group whether you should buy the old KMA100
>
>
> >What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably as big
> > as
> >your whole apartment.
> >
> >
> Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
> people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
> question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
> marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in front of
> it.
DEAD WRONG!!! Even audiophiles don't have to sacrifice too much cosmetics. Marble
floor may not be as good as carpet, but not too much of a concern because:
1) the room is huge
2) his ML speakers are line courses.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
> >> All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
> >> Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts his
> >> million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor, and
> >> Krell components are bright enough!.
> >
> >So you heard the rumor too? After you get out of college, and actually make
> > some
> >money, audition one for a change. They are not bright at all.
> >
>
> YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
> over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
> more money.
That motley crew system you listed cost $45k?? You're right. I can see that you've
been using your daddy's money for some midfi gear, and a little old highend stuff
tho.
JB
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
JB and Dan - why argue?
Zip
--
Peter Corey
Tom Albertz wrote:
> *LifeIsGood* wrote:
> >
> > ..... For example, lets say that I have
> > the best components that money can buy (less the front-end); putting in a good
> > cd player or transport/dac vs. a superb cd player or transport/dac combo is
> > not going to improve my sonics so greatly. In fact, I'd be surprised if it
> > improved my sonics by 10%--at most. Now if I had mediocre components and the
> > above scenario were true, then the sonic differences would be more noticeable.
>
> I think most audiophiles would disagree. I have heard them say
> that it takes a higher resolution system to reveal the differences.
> I believe this makes more sense.
It's not necessarily a "component " that can make the LEAST difference
But :
What certainly CAN make the least difference is the PRICE of the component
^ __
0 || --
Reply to :
pc...@bellevue.org
FAX: 1-2BU TNM YSHU
Peter Corey
George M. Middius wrote:
> His Williness Peter Corey overlooks the obvious
> (surprise!)....
>
> >It's not necessarily a "component " that can make the LEAST difference
> >But :
> >What certainly CAN make the least difference is the PRICE of the component
>
> What have we done to deserve this, Your Williness? Who on
> RAO roused you from your eternal slumber?
Get a Life George !
There really is one out there you know .
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
Yeah George, there is a life out there! Corey has been searching for it
his whole life, his whole miserable life.
George M. Middius
(surprise!)....
>It's not necessarily a "component " that can make the LEAST difference
>But :
>What certainly CAN make the least difference is the PRICE of the component
What have we done to deserve this, Your Williness? Who on
RAO roused you from your eternal slumber?
Everyone, please, if we work together, we can put Peter back
in the bottle and get a little closer to wiping out the
cyborgic pollution of RAO. Here is the plan:
Thursday, July 16, 1998, will be a crucial day for Resonant
Perturbations of Decarpination, discovered by Mordecai
Zimmler in the early years of the 20th century. It's true
that Mordecai is with us no longer, but his great insights
and trenchant philosophical syntheses of abstruse knowledge
still point the way to a less cluttered, more rewarding
audio lifestyle.
This Thursday, then, let us rejoice in Mordecai Zimmler's
prediction of the Evacuating Willies throughout the Seventh
Plane. Yes, I know Earth and all its sentient inhabitants
live their corporeal lives on the Eighth Plane, but no
matter. If we all link together spiritually and earnestly,
we will collectively transcend our shackled imprisonment on
the Seventh Plane and we will reach the Eighth Plane. Our
departure from the Eighth Plane will succeed our arrival
there in a matter of willyseconds, but if we all focus our
Karumps with maximum intensity of vigor, we will reshape our
existence on the Seventh Plane forevermore.
The plan is for each sentient audiophile to adhere to his or
her spiritual vortex at the precise moment of 11:36 pm GMT
(6:36 pm Eastern, 3:36 pm Pacific). It's advisable to begin
the cascading communion rites a few minutes earlier if you
customarily have trouble distinguishing a cyborg from an
engineer, of course.
At the appointed hour, we must all intone the chant of
irrevocation. Use the Catarnian Rhythm Scheme, as described
in Zimmler's tract "Defeating the Willies for a Cleaner,
More Musical Life," p. 116. The chant we shall enunciate is:
Peter Corey, Peter Corey, have you heard the story?
A record is spinning, yet its signal runs true.
The music is lovely but an autopsy is gory--
Away with you now, thou enslaver Peter Corey!
Peter Corey, Peter Corey, fidelity our one goal,
Your stinginess and foolishness one day you will rue.
Audio is subjective and not the subject of polls--
Off with you then, Peter Corey, great fool!
Peter Corey, begone! Peter Corey, begone!
We stand with our wires, we spin with our 'tables,
Though to you and your ilk it may all be just fables.
To crave mere existence falls short for a normal --
For Peter, stereo is a "science" become ever so formal.
Peter Corey, begone! Peter Corey, away!
PETER COREY, all willies, all cyborgs, BEGONE!
Please, everyone, we can rid ourselves of this extremely
willy demon. Every voice is needed. Let this call to
vigilance remind you of your humanity, and let us break free
of Corey's shackles of williness, stupidity, and ovinity.
Thursday -- mark your calendars now. For humanity.
George M. Middius
Remove "jiffy" to reply
*LifeIsGood*
>*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
>> >> All I know is that if Fabio is a Krell fanatic, then I'm staying away from
>> >> Krell. I thought he had a bit of brains, but was wrong. The idiot puts
> his
>> >> million-dollar Krell-Martin Logan-Transparent system on a marble floor,
> and
>> >> Krell components are bright enough!.
>> >
>> >So you heard the rumor too? After you get out of college, and actually make
>> > some
>> >money, audition one for a change. They are not bright at all.
>> >
>>
>> YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
>> over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
>> more money.
>
>That motley crew system you listed cost $45k?? You're right. I can see that
> you've
>been using your daddy's money for some midfi gear, and a little old highend
> stuff
>tho.
>
Believe me, I wish I was using my dad's money. Funny thing is that I'm worth
more than he is and haven't spoken to him in years. ALso, I've never listed
my system.
>JB
*LifeIsGood*
>JB and Dan - why argue?
>Zip
Because I'm trying to emulate your motif :-) Actually, Johnny is a nice
guy; I've spoken to him on the phone before. It's just that I can take
criticizm better than he can when it comes to our own audio gear.
Dan
*LifeIsGood*
>> YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
>> over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
>> sounding they are at pro shops and hi-fi shows? Although I must admit their
>> reference components are very good, but waaaayyyyy over priced, like Levinson
>> gear.
>
>Two big systems in an apartment? Must sound like crap.
>
One is of course in living room, one in bedroom. If this seems odd to you,
then that's your problem. And you're half right, one sounds like crap, the
other pretty damn good, good enough to blow your system away.
>Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so bright
>
>1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
>
I have yet to hear from a die-hard audiophile who thinks they are superb or
even great. Only audio enthusiests.
>2) how come they measure perfect?
>
Measurement is okay, but the proof is in the ears.
>3) how come just a few months ago, you were so clueless about Krell? Remember,
> you
>asked the group whether you should buy the old KMA100
>
>
Got the wrong guy buddy.
>
>>
>>
>> >What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably as
> big
>> > as
>> >your whole apartment.
>> >
>> >
>> Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
>> people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
>> question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
>> marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in front
> of
>> it.
>
>DEAD WRONG!!! Even audiophiles don't have to sacrifice too much cosmetics.
> Marble
>floor may not be as good as carpet, but not too much of a concern because:
>
>1) the room is huge
Wrong. The larger the room, the more echo you'll get between the floor and
ceiling on a marble floor. Every cognizant audiophile knows this.
>2) his ML speakers are line courses.
>
You must be referring to someone else.
Johnny Y Boey
> Believe me, I wish I was using my dad's money. Funny thing is that I'm worth
> more than he is and haven't spoken to him in years. ALso, I've never listed
> my system.
>
Yes, you did. Early in this same thread. You also claimed to own a very outdated ML Quests.
Johnny Y Boey
> >> YOu're right. After owning 3 apartments and having a main stereo system of
> >> over $45K and a second system costing about $10K, I guess I do need to make
> >> more money. Why should I audition Krell when I can hear how bright and thin
> >> sounding they are at pro shops and hi-fi shows? Although I must admit their
> >> reference components are very good, but waaaayyyyy over priced, like Levinson
> >> gear.
> >
> >Two big systems in an apartment? Must sound like crap.
> >
>
> One is of course in living room, one in bedroom. If this seems odd to you,
> then that's your problem. And you're half right, one sounds like crap, the
> other pretty damn good, good enough to blow your system away.
>
that's what you'd like to think, but your ML Quests aren't gonna be even close.
> >Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so bright
> >
> >1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
> >
> I have yet to hear from a die-hard audiophile who thinks they are superb or
> even great. Only audio enthusiests.
>
DEAD WRONG!!! I am a die-hard audiophile, has been for over 10yr, and think Krells
sound incredible. So are many of my audiophile friends.
> >2) how come they measure perfect?
> >
>
> Measurement is okay, but the proof is in the ears.
>
> >3) how come just a few months ago, you were so clueless about Krell? Remember,
> > you
> >asked the group whether you should buy the old KMA100
> >
> >
> Got the wrong guy buddy.
> >
Now you're caught lying. Ring a bell:
******************************************************
Subject: Advice needed:Bi-amp or monoblock?
From: vnd...@nwu.edu (*LifeIsGood*)
Date: 1997/12/03
Message-ID: <663oou$k...@jamesv.Warren.MENTORG.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
[More Headers]
[Subscribe to rec.audio.high-end]
I have a couple of Cinepro amps I bi-amped to my ML Quest Z's and am looking
to move one step up. ALthough I am very satisfied with the sound I get, I am
am not at all content, as we audiophilers never are. I know that I get less
distortion from bi-amping, but are there any other pros or cons to both?
ALso, I currrently live in a hi-rise and hence do not need excessive power
because I am not allowed to blow my neighbors' ears out. I listen strickly
to contemporary jazz and classical music and am thinking of getting the Krell
KMA 100 monos for my system. Is it a good choice to mono?
Dan
*LifeIsGood*
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
vnd...@nwu.edu
*****************************************************
> >>
> >>
> >> >What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably as
> > big
> >> > as
> >> >your whole apartment.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
> >> people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
> >> question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
> >> marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in front
> > of
> >> it.
> >
> >DEAD WRONG!!! Even audiophiles don't have to sacrifice too much cosmetics.
> > Marble
> >floor may not be as good as carpet, but not too much of a concern because:
> >
> >1) the room is huge
>
> Wrong. The larger the room, the more echo you'll get between the floor and
> ceiling on a marble floor. Every cognizant audiophile knows this.
>
DEAD WRONG!!! The reflected sound will be *LESS*, and insignificant because they lag
far behind the direct sound, so you get little to no smearing.
> >2) his ML speakers are line courses.
> >
> You must be referring to someone else.
>
DEAD WRONG!!! Fabio owns ML speakers, and they are line sources.
JB
Peter Corey
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) wrote:
> Peter Corey wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 01:04:02 GMT
> > George M. Middius wrote:
> >
> > > His Williness Peter Corey overlooks the obvious
> > > (surprise!)....
> > >
> > > >It's not necessarily a "component " that can make the LEAST difference
> > > >But :
> > > >What certainly CAN make the least difference is the PRICE of the component
> > >
> > > What have we done to deserve this, Your Williness? Who on
> > > RAO roused you from your eternal slumber?
> >
> > Get a Life George !
> > There really is one out there you know .
>
> Yeah George, there is a life out there! Corey has been searching for it
> his whole life, his whole miserable life.
"Out there" perhaps ; but not at the keyboard all day
But I really meant nothing personal Zipser ( honest )!
After all ;
Even a paranoid hustler has the right to earn a living .
*LifeIsGood*
>> One is of course in living room, one in bedroom. If this seems odd to you,
>> then that's your problem. And you're half right, one sounds like crap, the
>> other pretty damn good, good enough to blow your system away.
>>
>
>that's what you'd like to think, but your ML Quests aren't gonna be even close.
>
>
>
>> >Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so bright
>> >
>> >1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
>> >
>> I have yet to hear from a die-hard audiophile who thinks they are superb or
>> even great. Only audio enthusiests.
>>
>
>DEAD WRONG!!! I am a die-hard audiophile, has been for over 10yr, and think
> Krells
>sound incredible. So are many of my audiophile friends.
>
Then they match your system--good for you, and that's all that matters. Every
system I heard with Krell gear sound good, although a bit bright and dry and
at times a bit thin, but never spectacular such as the Avalon/Spectral/MIT
setup, not even close. As you know, Krell has a very distinct sound, and
there are pros and cons to that sound.
That was a while ago, and I guess I did inquire about the Krells. That's
probably because it was an exceptional deal. I do buy things to try out if it
can be bought cheaply to sell again for profit if I don't like it. No lie was
intended, I just totally forgot. That was when I was an audio enthusiast
with limited funds. As you well know, being an audiophile, I change my gear
occasionally and inquire about different types of gear dozens of times a week
on manyv forums. As for the aforementioned system I posted, it has been
drastically changed, and will keep changing it except for my BEL MK IIIa
monoblocks (soon to be upgraded to MK IV), Placete Preamp, and Magnan
Signature cables.
>
>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >What's wrong with having speakers in marble floor? The room is probably
> as
>> > big
>> >> > as
>> >> >your whole apartment.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
>> >> people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
>> >> question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
>> >> marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in
> front
>> > of
>> >> it.
>> >
>> >DEAD WRONG!!! Even audiophiles don't have to sacrifice too much cosmetics.
>> > Marble
>> >floor may not be as good as carpet, but not too much of a concern because:
>> >
>> >1) the room is huge
>>
>> Wrong. The larger the room, the more echo you'll get between the floor and
>> ceiling on a marble floor. Every cognizant audiophile knows this.
>>
>
>DEAD WRONG!!! The reflected sound will be *LESS*, and insignificant because
> they lag
>far behind the direct sound, so you get little to no smearing.
>
You and I definitely have a disagreement on this. I have my system on a
granite floor and had to put an large area rug in front of it because of
echo flutter; my listening room is 19' x 25', which is ideal. Apparently,
the reflected sound you mentioned were significant enough to influence me to
do something about it.
>
>> >2) his ML speakers are line courses.
>> >
>> You must be referring to someone else.
>>
>
>DEAD WRONG!!! Fabio owns ML speakers, and they are line sources.
>
I didn't know who you were referring to. Yes, this is true. And of course,
as mentioned in the Stereophile issue regarding Fabio, the reviewer said
Fabio's all-Krell system sounded "a bit bright," and Martin Logans are not
known for being bright, so it must have be the component since, as you
believe, it can't be his marble floor.
>JB
Johnny Y Boey
> >> One is of course in living room, one in bedroom. If this seems odd to you,
> >> then that's your problem. And you're half right, one sounds like crap, the
> >> other pretty damn good, good enough to blow your system away.
> >>
> >
> >that's what you'd like to think, but your ML Quests aren't gonna be even close.
> >
> >
> I sold those since my current speakers blew them away.
>
The Dvoraks??? They're not that good, and my speakers do much better in a lot of
areas.
> >
> >> >Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so bright
> >> >
> >> >1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
> >> >
> >> I have yet to hear from a die-hard audiophile who thinks they are superb or
> >> even great. Only audio enthusiests.
> >>
> >
> >DEAD WRONG!!! I am a die-hard audiophile, has been for over 10yr, and think
> > Krells
> >sound incredible. So are many of my audiophile friends.
> >
>
> Then they match your system--good for you, and that's all that matters. Every
> system I heard with Krell gear sound good, although a bit bright and dry and
> at times a bit thin, but never spectacular such as the Avalon/Spectral/MIT
> setup, not even close. As you know, Krell has a very distinct sound, and
> there are pros and cons to that sound.
>
Now you're retracting. You said Krells are very bright.
I have heard Krell/MIT/Thiel or IRS systems that I like better.
> >
> >> >2) how come they measure perfect?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Measurement is okay, but the proof is in the ears.
> >>
measurement *cannot* lie about frequency response. If an amp measures flat, like the
Krells are, they cannot sound bright. Those who preach that either believed the
rumor or are used to soft systems.
So you're a full-time student, and you suddenly have unlimited funds in half a year?
You inherited the money, won the lottery, or maybe made some dope deals?
> As you well know, being an audiophile, I change my gear
> occasionally and inquire about different types of gear dozens of times a week
> on manyv forums. As for the aforementioned system I posted, it has been
> drastically changed, and will keep changing it except for my BEL MK IIIa
> monoblocks (soon to be upgraded to MK IV), Placete Preamp, and Magnan
> Signature cables.
>
a patched-up motley crew system. Those cost $45k??? You are ripped off big time. And
you are crazy to think that system can blow mine away.
> >> >> Fabio's living room where he places his system is probably as big as most
> >> >> people's entire apartments--including yours. To answer your other
> >> >> question, you're an audiophile, so figure out why having your system on a
> >> >> marble floor is ineffective, unless you have an area rug or carpet in
> > front
> >> > of
> >> >> it.
> >> >
> >> >DEAD WRONG!!! Even audiophiles don't have to sacrifice too much cosmetics.
> >> > Marble
> >> >floor may not be as good as carpet, but not too much of a concern because:
> >> >
> >> >1) the room is huge
> >>
> >> Wrong. The larger the room, the more echo you'll get between the floor and
> >> ceiling on a marble floor. Every cognizant audiophile knows this.
> >>
> >
> >DEAD WRONG!!! The reflected sound will be *LESS*, and insignificant because
> > they lag
> >far behind the direct sound, so you get little to no smearing.
> >
>
> You and I definitely have a disagreement on this. I have my system on a
> granite floor and had to put an large area rug in front of it because of
> echo flutter; my listening room is 19' x 25', which is ideal. Apparently,
> the reflected sound you mentioned were significant enough to influence me to
> do something about it.
>
1) Fabio's room is a lot bigger, and probably a lot taller than yours.
2) Echo flutter from floor-ceiling is usually insignificant compared to corners.
> >
> >> >2) his ML speakers are line courses.
> >> >
> >> You must be referring to someone else.
> >>
> >
> >DEAD WRONG!!! Fabio owns ML speakers, and they are line sources.
> >
>
> I didn't know who you were referring to. Yes, this is true.
therefore, the floor-ceiling reflections are even more insignificant.
> And of course,
> as mentioned in the Stereophile issue regarding Fabio, the reviewer said
> Fabio's all-Krell system sounded "a bit bright," and Martin Logans are not
> known for being bright, so it must have be the component since, as you
> believe, it can't be his marble floor.
>
There are some Stereophile reviewers who prefer mushy sound. Yes, big MLs can sound
forward.
JB
*LifeIsGood*
>The Dvoraks??? They're not that good, and my speakers do much better in a lot
> of
>areas.
>
I can't comment on that since I don't know what your speakers are. But
knowing you have Krells, you probably have the Wilson Watt Puppies. I heard
that setup before, and thought the sound was good, but again, a bit bright,
thin, dry, and lacked soundstage and imaging. Of course I can upgrade on
speakers, just like anyone else. But most of the time it's system
matching--you out of anyone should know that. And AUdio Artistry pairs their
speakers with ROwland along with BEL amps. I get superb sound from my
speakers and components. I don't know which components were complimented with
the Dvoraks when you listened to them. I can guarantee you that Audio
Artistry's reference speakers will *scortch* the reference speaker of your
brand.
>> >
>> >> >Someone has just been caught lying. You are pathetic. If they are so
> bright
>> >> >
>> >> >1) how come nobody else who attends shows think so?
>> >> >
>> >> I have yet to hear from a die-hard audiophile who thinks they are superb
> or
>> >> even great. Only audio enthusiests.
>> >>
>> >
>> >DEAD WRONG!!! I am a die-hard audiophile, has been for over 10yr, and think
>> > Krells
>> >sound incredible. So are many of my audiophile friends.
>> >
>>
>> Then they match your system--good for you, and that's all that matters.
> Every
>> system I heard with Krell gear sound good, although a bit bright and dry and
>> at times a bit thin, but never spectacular such as the Avalon/Spectral/MIT
>> setup, not even close. As you know, Krell has a very distinct sound, and
>> there are pros and cons to that sound.
>>
>
>Now you're retracting. You said Krells are very bright.
>
>I have heard Krell/MIT/Thiel or IRS systems that I like better.
>
>
>
>
>> >
>> >> >2) how come they measure perfect?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Measurement is okay, but the proof is in the ears.
>> >>
>
>measurement *cannot* lie about frequency response. If an amp measures flat,
> like the
>Krells are, they cannot sound bright. Those who preach that either believed the
>rumor or are used to soft systems.
>
>
No, you just can't take criticizm about your gear.
>So you're a full-time student, and you suddenly have unlimited funds in half a
> year?
>You inherited the money, won the lottery, or maybe made some dope deals?
>
Who the hell said I was still a student you moron? I'm just still affiliated
with NW, and have their account. Why should I go pay monthy on AOL when
they're giving me a free account? I spoke to you via phone before and
thought you were a pretty respectful guy, and was defending you on
audioreview.com from flamers. But if you're going to insinuate that I sell
drugs, then I'm going to side with the flamers and damage your reputation.
That's going a bit over the boundaries. I don't ask you how you make your
money, and I really don't care. So we'll leave it at that.
>
>
>> As you well know, being an audiophile, I change my gear
>> occasionally and inquire about different types of gear dozens of times a
> week
>> on manyv forums. As for the aforementioned system I posted, it has been
>> drastically changed, and will keep changing it except for my BEL MK IIIa
>> monoblocks (soon to be upgraded to MK IV), Placete Preamp, and Magnan
>> Signature cables.
>>
>
>a patched-up motley crew system. Those cost $45k??? You are ripped off big
> time. And
>you are crazy to think that system can blow mine away.
>
I didn't list my line conditioner, power cords, and acoustical room
treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone. But that's retail
price you idiot. I paid a fraction of that price for everything so get your
facts straight before you make idiotic comments. And if you tell me your
entire gear, I can give you definitive answer as to whether mine will beat
yours, but to you, that will be a moot and subjective point. I'm sure you've
never heard my cables, preamp and amps before so you can't comment on them
whereas I've probably heard your gear and can comment on them. I guarantee
you one thing: the Placete preamp will beat *any* preamp on the market,
possibly with the exception of the Rowland Coherence but only when connected
to its battery power supply, although I have yet to compare them. Besides, it
costs about $15K (the Cohenrence).
What the hell does that have to do with the review? You're just changing the
subject because you can't accept the facts of the review, and I believe the
reviewer was John Atkinson, one of the more respectable guys from Stereophile.
My point about Fabio is that he thinks the best audio equipment is the most
expensive, which is far from the truth; coincidentally, he has the most
expensive gear money can buy in Krell components. This just shows that his
biceps are definitely bigger than his brain. Bottom line is you need to
accept criticizm a bit better about your gear. I'm not ashamed to admit that
a tweaked Sony Playstation can keep up with--although is not as good--as my
much more expensive front-end. And I bet you that if I compared that tweaked
Sony Playstation against your front-end, the Sony can keep up with it too, and
you'll only be able to notice subtle differences. I'm sure Krell gear can
sound glorious when matched properly, but I have yet to hear that match; hence
my opinion of it, which is generally the opinion of most of the audiophiles
and pro-shop owners with whom I associate. End of discussion.
Johnny Y Boey
> >
> >The Dvoraks??? They're not that good, and my speakers do much better in a lot
> > of
> >areas.
> >
>
> I can't comment on that since I don't know what your speakers are. But
> knowing you have Krells, you probably have the Wilson Watt Puppies. I heard
> that setup before, and thought the sound was good, but again, a bit bright,
> thin, dry, and lacked soundstage and imaging.
What a crazy guess. Currently they are Thiel CS7 driven by ARC Ref1/VT200. Front end
are VPI Aries/JMW/AQ7000se5 and several digital setups
> Of course I can upgrade on
> speakers, just like anyone else. But most of the time it's system
> matching--you out of anyone should know that. And AUdio Artistry pairs their
> speakers with ROwland along with BEL amps. I get superb sound from my
> speakers and components. I don't know which components were complimented with
> the Dvoraks when you listened to them. I can guarantee you that Audio
> Artistry's reference speakers will *scortch* the reference speaker of your
> brand.
>
DEAD WRONG!!! They will never sound right because they are atrocious in time and
phase response. But the Beethovens are incredible tho, but scorching the Thiel
CS7.2?? Not in a million years.
> >> >> >2) how come they measure perfect?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Measurement is okay, but the proof is in the ears.
> >> >>
> >
> >measurement *cannot* lie about frequency response. If an amp measures flat,
> > like the
> >Krells are, they cannot sound bright. Those who preach that either believed the
> >rumor or are used to soft systems.
> >
> >
>
> No, you just can't take criticizm about your gear.
>
Nope, I stated the *truth*. Measurement cannot lie about frequency response.
> >So you're a full-time student, and you suddenly have unlimited funds in half a
> > year?
> >You inherited the money, won the lottery, or maybe made some dope deals?
> >
>
> Who the hell said I was still a student you moron? I'm just still affiliated
> with NW, and have their account. Why should I go pay monthy on AOL when
> they're giving me a free account? I spoke to you via phone before and
> thought you were a pretty respectful guy, and was defending you on
> audioreview.com from flamers. But if you're going to insinuate that I sell
> drugs, then I'm going to side with the flamers and damage your reputation.
You can't, since my reputation is flawless.
> >> As you well know, being an audiophile, I change my gear
> >> occasionally and inquire about different types of gear dozens of times a
> > week
> >> on manyv forums. As for the aforementioned system I posted, it has been
> >> drastically changed, and will keep changing it except for my BEL MK IIIa
> >> monoblocks (soon to be upgraded to MK IV), Placete Preamp, and Magnan
> >> Signature cables.
> >>
> >
> >a patched-up motley crew system. Those cost $45k??? You are ripped off big
> > time. And
> >you are crazy to think that system can blow mine away.
> >
>
> I didn't list my line conditioner, power cords, and acoustical room
> treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone.
and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
> But that's retail
> price you idiot. I paid a fraction of that price for everything so get your
> facts straight before you make idiotic comments. And if you tell me your
> entire gear, I can give you definitive answer as to whether mine will beat
> yours,
DEAD WRONG!!! You will never know since you don't have enough in-depth experience.
From going to shows and reading reviews, all you can offer is spreading rumors.
Nothing beats hands-on experience with hundreds (maybe over a thousand already?) of
highend gear in 10+yrs experience.
> but to you, that will be a moot and subjective point. I'm sure you've
> never heard my cables, preamp and amps before so you can't comment on them
> whereas I've probably heard your gear and can comment on them. I guarantee
> you one thing: the Placete preamp will beat *any* preamp on the market,
DEAD WRONG!!! My ARC Ref1 will trash it any day.
I never said it's the truth. It's just that you don't understand anything about
acoustics, and you mistakenly think that having a line-source speakers in a huge
room with marble floor wouldn't work. But now you know how wrong you were.
> coincidentally, he has the most
> expensive gear money can buy in Krell components. This just shows that his
> biceps are definitely bigger than his brain.
You never heard his system, so you'll never know.
> Bottom line is you need to
> accept criticizm a bit better about your gear. I'm not ashamed to admit that
> a tweaked Sony Playstation can keep up with--although is not as good--as my
> much more expensive front-end.
>
>> And I bet you that if I compared that tweaked
>> Sony Playstation against your front-end, the Sony can keep up with it too, and
>> you'll only be able to notice subtle differences.
>
Of course, as long as it's tracking right, there is sound coming out. And it's a lot
closer to a reference digital setup than a crappy tt setup is compared to the
state-of-the-art. But unacceptable to me.
> I'm sure Krell gear can
> sound glorious when matched properly, but I have yet to hear that match;
from your limited experience I;m not surprised. And don't retort how you are much
more experienced than I think. All you have to do is go back and read your previous
posts. You may have come a long way in a half yr, but don't pretend anymore than
that.
> hence
> my opinion of it, which is generally the opinion of most of the audiophiles
> and pro-shop owners with whom I associate.
pro-shop?? What the hell do they know?
You mean specialty audio shops?? You bought all your stuff used, and you want us to
believe that they would like to 'associate' with you???
JB
Sandman
together your own systems from careful auditioning, and both seem to have
some worthwhile things to say. Why the need to get into a pissing contest
over who has the "best" system? Audio is supposed to be a fun hobby,
giving pleasure to those getting into it. It's not a contest. Sure, we
all have our preferences and some of us have some pretty strong opinions,
but we don't have to tear each other up about it. If I could afford more,
I MIGHT spend more on audio, but I've already sunk a disproportionate
amount of my savings into it as it is, and am pretty damned happy with the
result. I finally put together a system better than I dreamed of years a
go, and I'm sure there are "better" systems out there, even to my ears, but
so what? Enjoy the music!
BTW, I have also wondered about Fabio's room - all that marble and glass, I
would use some rugs and some room tunes or at least curtains and something
on the walls here and there, and use the custom megawatt Krells (if I were
to keep them) to drive the bass cones (where they excel) and put some Audio
Research Reference-series preamp/amplification on the ML electrostatic
panels and the Infinity IRS midrange and tweeters. THAT ought to cure the
brightness problem in that room. But it appears Fabio LIKES it bright (I
believe he said so in an interview). So you see, it really doesn't matter
what's "best" - he likes it the way it is; I don't like "bright" so I'd
soften it in the ways described here. Each to his own.
The nice thing about the Stereophile interviews with Fabio was that I could
show my wife the pictures (including the ML Sequel side-surrounds in the
living room and ML Monoliths in the bedroom) and tell her: "So you think
I'M nuts?"
There are no "absolute truths" in audio.
Sandman
*LifeIsGood* <vnd...@nwu.edu> wrote in article
<6ok6p6$4...@news.acns.nwu.edu>...
Johnny Y Boey
> I didn't list my line conditioner, power cords, and acoustical room
> treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone.
HA HA HA HA!!! You don't think digital setup makes a difference but you think
speaker cables filled with snake oil do??? All you need for speaker cables is solid
construction with no bull, so the AQ Midnight is about the best you can get for
conventional designs. The rest, with exotic material in the jacket etc., is just
snake oil. Networked cables are the way to go.
You know, in digital setups, there are jitter-reduction techniques, advanced
transports, dual-differential DAC, balanced class A analog stage etc. that are
proven to offer sonic advantages. Exotic cables??? Give me a break.
JB
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
>
> *LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
> > treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone.
>
> speaker cables filled with snake oil do???
JB - aren't you a proponent of MIT cables? What is the difference?
> All you need for speaker cables is solid
> construction with no bull, so the AQ Midnight is about the best you can get for
> conventional designs. The rest, with exotic material in the jacket etc., is just
> snake oil. Networked cables are the way to go.
>
> You know, in digital setups, there are jitter-reduction techniques, advanced
> transports, dual-differential DAC, balanced class A analog stage etc. that are
> proven to offer sonic advantages. Exotic cables??? Give me a break.
>
> JB
--
Johnny Y Boey
> You know, guys, you both seem to have explored some fine components, put
> together your own systems from careful auditioning, and both seem to have
> some worthwhile things to say. Why the need to get into a pissing contest
> over who has the "best" system? Audio is supposed to be a fun hobby,
> giving pleasure to those getting into it. It's not a contest.
I never said it is. The guy started it by claiming that his motley crew system
would easily blow away mine.
> BTW, I have also wondered about Fabio's room - all that marble and glass, I
> would use some rugs and some room tunes or at least curtains and something
> on the walls here and ther
> , and use the custom megawatt Krells (if I were
> to keep them) to drive the bass cones (where they excel) and put some Audio
> Research Reference-series preamp/amplification on the ML electrostatic
> panels and the Infinity IRS midrange and tweeters. THAT ought to cure the
> brightness problem in that room. But it appears Fabio LIKES it bright (I
> believe he said so in an interview). So you see, it really doesn't matter
> what's "best" - he likes it the way it is; I don't like "bright" so I'd
> soften it in the ways described here. Each to his own.
>
Yup, some like it more forward. And the brightness could be the glass.
Definitely not the Krell since they measure perfect in frequency response, and
that doesn't lie.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
> Johnny Y Boey wrote:
> >
> > *LifeIsGood* wrote:
> >
> > > I didn't list my line conditioner, power cords, and acoustical room
> > > treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone.
> >
> > HA HA HA HA!!! You don't think digital setup makes a difference but you think
> > speaker cables filled with snake oil do???
>
> JB - aren't you a proponent of MIT cables? What is the difference?
>
Read the rest of my post. MIT puts networks based on scientific research to ensure
perfect signal integrity. Using water jacket, illuminated jacket, sand-filled jacket
etc. are simply snake oil. In terms of conventional wire design, superbly constructed
cables like AQ Midnight are the best achievable.
Sandman
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<35AE3CAD...@ix.netcom.com>...
> Sandman wrote:
>
> > You know, guys, you both seem to have explored some fine components,
put
> > together your own systems from careful auditioning, and both seem to
have
> > some worthwhile things to say. Why the need to get into a pissing
contest
> > over who has the "best" system? Audio is supposed to be a fun hobby,
> > giving pleasure to those getting into it. It's not a contest.
>
> I never said it is. The guy started it by claiming that his motley crew
system
> would easily blow away mine.
I would have let it be. You can still do it.
> > BTW, I have also wondered about Fabio's room - all that marble and
glass, I
> > would use some rugs and some room tunes or at least curtains and
something
> > on the walls here and ther
>
> > , and use the custom megawatt Krells (if I were
> > to keep them) to drive the bass cones (where they excel) and put some
Audio
> > Research Reference-series preamp/amplification on the ML electrostatic
> > panels and the Infinity IRS midrange and tweeters. THAT ought to cure
the
> > brightness problem in that room. But it appears Fabio LIKES it bright
(I
> > believe he said so in an interview). So you see, it really doesn't
matter
> > what's "best" - he likes it the way it is; I don't like "bright" so I'd
> > soften it in the ways described here. Each to his own.
> >
>
> Yup, some like it more forward. And the brightness could be the glass.
> Definitely not the Krell since they measure perfect in frequency
response, and
> that doesn't lie.
I don't consider Krell bright, but using any solid-state amp in a large
room like that may tend to contribute to a bright sound. Again, though, I
think the real problem is all the glass and marble in a room that size
creating reflections, particularly where he is using line-source speakers
for the front and sides. And the Infinity IRS he uses as rear surrounds
also sounded bright to me the only time I got to hear it years ago. Most
Infinity models sound a bit bright or "sizzly" to me. He seems to like it,
though, and I haven't been in Fabio's room, so I'm just speculating based
on what he's said in interviews about the bright sound.
My Martin Logan Quest Z's sounded a bit bright and dry in the upper
midrange and treble to me with my Aragon 4004 (not severely so, I'm talking
subtleties here) until I biamped them, limiting the Aragon to the bass
cones and adding ARC VTM120's to the panels. Of course, my room's much
smaller than Fabio's and much better damped. The difference is particularly
noticeable with female vocals, solo piano, and small jazz ensembles.
Sandman
*LifeIsGood*
I have concluded that debating more intensely with JB is futile because he
assumes crazy things about you before getting the facts and thinks he is
omniscient and knows it all. Therefore, I will just spar with him
casually. Also, his insuinating that I sell drugs to buy my system has pissed
me off so much that I better stop communicating with him soon or else he's
going to make me go after him and do something bad to him. But I'm an
easy-going person--to a certain point--so I'll just let it go. He claims
that putting your gear on marble floor does not cause brightness, but John
Atkinson says that Fabio's gear on marble is bright, and I know it can't be
the Logans causing it. As for Fabio claiming to be an audiophile, he may be
one in the sense of the word, but he doesn't know what good sound is. After
he said he'd rather listen to his system than live music, I knew he was a dumb
as he looks. But hey, he's living a charmed life so I guess he's the one
laughing. I don't think Fabio says he likes it bright; whoever does is an
idiot. He said something to the effect that he likes it very clean or
transparent.
As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my system
would blow his away, and he took it the wrong way and it got out of hand. How
in the world would we know? It's like saying the Lakers of the 80's would
beat the Bulls of the 90's, and so on and so forth. I guess baiting JB is
rather easy, but then he makes offensive remarks to piss people off, which
backfires. I actually think reviews in general is all BS because it all comes
down to system matching and possibly will post a debate on that issue some
day. So when reviewers or publications like IAR, Bound for Sound,
Stereophile, etc. come out with an opinion on a piece without listing the
complimenting components, it doesn't tell me anything. It only matters in
your system! Enjoy the sound.
In article <6ol3ci$l49$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, "Sandman" <sand...@gte.net>
wrote:
*LifeIsGood*
*LifeIsGood*
>*LifeIsGood* wrote:
>
>> I didn't list my line conditioner, power cords, and acoustical room
>> treatments. My cables and interconnects are $10K alone.
>
>
>
> solid
>construction with no bull, so the AQ Midnight is about the best you can get for
>conventional designs. The rest, with exotic material in the jacket etc., is
> just
>snake oil. Networked cables are the way to go.
>
>You know, in digital setups, there are jitter-reduction techniques, advanced
>transports, dual-differential DAC, balanced class A analog stage etc. that are
>proven to offer sonic advantages. Exotic cables??? Give me a break.
>
>
>
>JB
>
It's funny you mentioned that because I use to think the same way about
cables and interconnects, until I and my audiophile friends tried the cables.
It can't hurt trying, right? The Magnans made a hell of a difference so I
guess it's snake oil that works. And it's so funny and coincidental how
everyone I know who own Magnans, have tried a myriad of cables and
interconnects and think it's the best thing on the market. Also, I got a
great price on them and can probably make a profit selling them so I don't
give a damn. As for my preamp and yours, I'll compare them just out of
curiosity when I get a chance. But whatever I think of it won't make a
difference since its in my system. I do know that Guy Hammel, the maker of
the Placete who is super nice and straight as an arrow, told me that someone
returned an ARC Ref. 1 for his. As for your ARC gear, I must admit they are
nice, but probably won't match up well with mine. I heard the VT 200 & ARC
REF 1 preamp with Theta front-end and MIT cables with the Radians, and the
Innersound Eros. One was superb, although a tad bit grainy, the other was one
of the worst sounds I've ever heard, and the dealer and all of his
employees agreed with me; hence, this proves my point, which is that it all
comes down to system matching.
Sandman
*LifeIsGood* <vnd...@nwu.edu> wrote in article
<6ommpf$7...@news.acns.nwu.edu>...
>
> I have concluded that debating more intensely with JB is futile because
he
> assumes crazy things about you before getting the facts and thinks he is
> omniscient and knows it all. Therefore, I will just spar with him
> casually.
Good idea. I'd hate to see you both going at it for months.
> Also, his insuinating that I sell drugs to buy my system has pissed
> me off so much that I better stop communicating with him soon or else
he's
> going to make me go after him and do something bad to him. But I'm an
> easy-going person--to a certain point--so I'll just let it go.
He probably will too.
> He claims
> that putting your gear on marble floor does not cause brightness, but
John
> Atkinson says that Fabio's gear on marble is bright, and I know it can't
be
> the Logans causing it.
I haven't seen what he says about it, but I agree with Atkinson on this
point.
> As for Fabio claiming to be an audiophile, he may be
> one in the sense of the word, but he doesn't know what good sound is.
After
> he said he'd rather listen to his system than live music, I knew he was a
dumb
> as he looks. But hey, he's living a charmed life so I guess he's the one
> laughing. I don't think Fabio says he likes it bright; whoever does is
an
> idiot. He said something to the effect that he likes it very clean or
> transparent.
Whatever. I don't feel up to searching for the interviews right now, I
just recalled something vague about the brightness issue, and recalled I
got the impression Fabio liked it that way.
On some days I'd rather listen to my system than to attend a concert, but
that doesn't mean I don't enjoy live music, and doesn't mean I prefer the
sound of my system to live music.
> As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my
system
> would blow his away, and he took it the wrong way and it got out of hand.
Well, a lot of audiophiles who are really serious about all the effort they
put into assembling their own systems would probably consider the "blow
away" remark as a slap in the face.
> How in the world would we know? It's like saying the Lakers of the 80's
would
> beat the Bulls of the 90's, and so on and so forth.
Precisely my point in the post below.
> I guess baiting JB is
> rather easy, but then he makes offensive remarks to piss people off,
which
> backfires.
Everyone's got their own personality here - friction is inevitable,
especially involving a subject like audio that a lot of people feel
impassioned about one way or another.
> I actually think reviews in general is all BS because it all comes
> down to system matching and possibly will post a debate on that issue
some
> day. So when reviewers or publications like IAR, Bound for Sound,
> Stereophile, etc. come out with an opinion on a piece without listing the
> complimenting components, it doesn't tell me anything. It only matters
in
> your system! Enjoy the sound.
Totally agree with the system matching point - synergy is difficult to
obtain and takes a lot of work sometimes to find what works well with what.
But when it all finally fits well, it's certainly worth the effort.
I agree with your point about reviews if you don't know what's in the
reviewer's system, but I don't think all reviews are worthless.
Stereophile always includes the components in the system a new unit is
being auditioned in. If someone fails to include it in a particular
review, their system is always described somewhere in a back issue. I
agree that they should always list the components in their system in every
review.
I think the reviewers at Stereophile try out the new components in their
home reference systems which they're used to, and which generally include
some very transparent and revealing components and speakers. At least if
one's shopping for a CD player, for instance, reviews of various CD players
and the opinions expressed by the reviewers might give you some idea of
what's out there and help with your initial shopping list and auditioning
sessions. Just don't take any reviewer's word as the absolute truth.
They're only opinions based on their personal experience with the component
in their own reference systems.
> In article <6ol3ci$l49$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, "Sandman"
<sand...@gte.net>
> wrote:
Johnny Y Boey
> He claims
> that putting your gear on marble floor does not cause brightness, but John
> Atkinson says that Fabio's gear on marble is bright, and I know it can't be
> the Logans causing it.
Nope, I never said marble floor does not cause brightness, just not as bad as you
think in a huge room and line sources. The brightness could be the glass or
whatever.
> As for Fabio claiming to be an audiophile, he may be
> one in the sense of the word, but he doesn't know what good sound is.
you don't know that.
> After
> he said he'd rather listen to his system than live music, I knew he was a dumb
> as he looks.
it's not surprising, sometimes I would rather listen to my system too.
1) my rock collections sound much better than rock concerts
2) I can put on any music I want at any time.
3) there are landmark classical performances in good recordings that would be hard
to match locally.
> But hey, he's living a charmed life so I guess he's the one
> laughing. I don't think Fabio says he likes it bright; whoever does is an
> idiot. He said something to the effect that he likes it very clean or
> transparent.
>
which some people, maybe JA, associate with brightness.
> As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my system
> would blow his away, and he took it the wrong way and it got out of hand.
you're right. It's not facetious or how you want to retract. It's just that you
didn't know who you were talking to.
JB
hea...@ix.netcom.com
> As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my system
> in the world would we know?
You're right. Unless the systems were in the same room at the same time,
you wouldn't know.
It's like saying the Lakers of the 80's would
> beat the Bulls of the 90's, and so on and so forth.
Ah, now THAT we know! 'Tis the Lakers by a whisker......
Brian
Mikeylikst
>Yeah George, there is a life out there! Corey has been searching for it
>his whole life, his whole miserable life.
He must have a bit more of one than George.
He takes much less space, than George does, amd is frequently more cogent.
Mike McKelvy
No one ever went broke
underestimating the taste
of the American public.
http://members.aol.com/RLSpeakers/rlsindex.html
Mikeylikst
>My point about Fabio is that he thinks the best audio equipment is the most
>expensive, which is far from the truth; coincidentally, he has the most
>expensive gear money can buy in Krell components.
I recall hearing Fabio descriveing his system on th Mark & Brian show, and the
reason he gave for his purchases was that he studied Electronics in college and
has some knowledge of what makes good components.
Of course having a shit load of money doesn't hurt.
This whole part of this thread seems a bit silly, People have preferences,
nothing more complicated than that. Given JB penchent for shooting from the
lip, without engaging his brain,, any conversation with him is inevitably going
to turn into flames or gibberish.
George M. Middius
touchstone of the 'borgs, the fabled "reading
comprehension skills."
>>Yeah George, there is a life out there! Corey has been searching for it
>>his whole life, his whole miserable life.
>He must have a bit more of one than George.
>He takes much less space, than George does, amd is frequently more cogent.
Grow up , ! ; (_|_)hole ! ;
*LifeIsGood*
Hey, watch it, I'm from Chicago :-)
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
>
> >From: vnd...@nwu.edu (*LifeIsGood*)
>
> >My point about Fabio is that he thinks the best audio equipment is the most
> >expensive, which is far from the truth; coincidentally, he has the most
> >expensive gear money can buy in Krell components.
>
> reason he gave for his purchases was that he studied Electronics in college and
> has some knowledge of what makes good components.
> Of course having a shit load of money doesn't hurt.
Actually I remember him from NYC. When I worked at Lyric he used to
come into the store from time to time (he lived in NYC in the 80's
also). I avoided him, because he was a schnurer back then, shopped for
price & looked for idiot salesmen who would fawn all over him (Elliot
Goldman used to pravtically get on hie knees for the guy at the time.
Anyway - he was always into this stuff & bought a little here and there
from all the stores in Manhatten.
Later on, I remember seeing Dan D'Agostino hanging out with him - about
2- 3 yers ago - and that was about the time of the previous LA
Stereophile Show. I think they fed off each other's egos.
Cheers
Zip
> This whole part of this thread seems a bit silly, People have preferences,
> nothing more complicated than that. Given JB penchent for shooting from the
> lip, without engaging his brain,, any conversation with him is inevitably going
> to turn into flames or gibberish.
>
> Mike McKelvy
> No one ever went broke
> underestimating the taste
> of the American public.
> http://members.aol.com/RLSpeakers/rlsindex.html
--
Singh
> In article <35AF93...@ix.netcom.com>, hea...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >*LifeIsGood* wrote:
> >
> >> As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my system
> >> would blow his away, and he took it the wrong way and it got out of hand.
> > How
> >> in the world would we know?
> >
> >
> >You're right. Unless the systems were in the same room at the same time,
> >you wouldn't know.
> >
> >
> > It's like saying the Lakers of the 80's would
> >> beat the Bulls of the 90's, and so on and so forth.
> >
> >
> >Ah, now THAT we know! 'Tis the Lakers by a whisker......
It depends if you are talking about playing basketball or sexual escapades.
> >
> >Brian
>
> Hey, watch it, I'm from Chicago :-)
>
>
> *LifeIsGood*
> Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
> vnd...@nwu.edu
--
Greg M. Singh
G...@wwa.com
hea...@ix.netcom.com
>
> In article <35AF93...@ix.netcom.com>, hea...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >*LifeIsGood* wrote:
> >
> >> As for enjoying the music, you are right. I facetiously told him my system
> >> would blow his away, and he took it the wrong way and it got out of hand.
> > How
> >> in the world would we know?
> >
> >
> >You're right. Unless the systems were in the same room at the same time,
> >you wouldn't know.
> >
> >
> > It's like saying the Lakers of the 80's would
> >> beat the Bulls of the 90's, and so on and so forth.
> >
> >
> >Ah, now THAT we know! 'Tis the Lakers by a whisker......
> >
>
> Hey, watch it, I'm from Chicago :-)
Well, I didn't say it'd be a trouncing or anything! I give the nod to LA
because none of the Bulls centers could stop Jabbar. Rodman would
certainly get his boards against him, but he couldn't stop Jabbar from
scoring, either. That and Magic evens out Jordan, I think.
Brian
Johnny Y Boey
Pippen is still better than the rest of the guy. And if Ron Harper can move like he
used to, and if Kukoc can stop being a sissy.
Mikeylikst
>Grow up , ! ; (_|_)hole ! ;
>
>George M. Middius
>Remove "jiffy" to reply
If only all your comments were this short.
Mikeylikst
>You know, in digital setups, there are jitter-reduction techniques, advanced
>transports, dual-differential DAC, balanced class A analog stage etc. that
>are
>proven to offer sonic advantages. Exotic cables??? Give me a break.
>
>
Nice to see your rational comment on cables, could you provide references for
the cliams on digital? Are you talking about outboard devices?
George M. Middius
grownups' table.
>>Grow up , ! ; (_|_)hole ! ;
>If only all your comments were this short.
Mikey, I'm sorry to admit that avoiding putting
strain on your limited attention span is not one of
my priorities.
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
>
> >From: Johnny Y Boey
>
> >You know, in digital setups, there are jitter-reduction techniques, advanced
> >transports, dual-differential DAC, balanced class A analog stage etc. that
> >are
> >proven to offer sonic advantages. Exotic cables??? Give me a break.
> >
> >
>
> Nice to see your rational comment on cables, could you provide references for
> the cliams on digital? Are you talking about outboard devices?
Mikey - he means whether you stick one digit or two digits up your rear,
you will feel the difference
> Mike McKelvy
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
George M. Middius <Glan...@jiffypop.erols.com> wrote:
>Mikey, I'm sorry to admit that avoiding putting
>strain on your limited attention span is not one of
>my priorities.
--
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