Budget High End
Han Kim
Here is a real puzzle for all you high end stereo buffs:
I love high end stereo but I'm a grad student, with the financial
problems associated with a large number of student loans. It's easy
to think up a dream system when one's budget is in five figures. But
how about a complete system (speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, inter
connects, cd player, tuner, and speaker stands, if necessary) for
$2000? Integrated amps are acceptable, as are pre-amp/tuners (like
Adcom or Rotel). The system must be versatile enough to play
everything from Vivaldi's Four Seasons to George Winston to Ministry.
How about it, high end experts, up for a challenge? Then reply
through the news group. I'd love to hear what people have to say!
Daniel Baker
han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim) wrote:
>I love high end stereo but I'm a grad student, with the financial
>problems associated with a large number of student loans. It's easy
>to think up a dream system when one's budget is in five figures.
One word: CREDIT. ;)
>how about a complete system (speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, inter
>connects, cd player, tuner, and speaker stands, if necessary) for
>$2000? Integrated amps are acceptable, as are pre-amp/tuners (like
>Adcom or Rotel).
For new equipment, this is what I might choose:
Speakers: Spica TC-60 (around $800 from Audio Advisor, but limited
quantities, so hurry -- yes, I know I've advised against mail order in
the past, but this is different as it's a discontinued product and
might not be available elsewhere. Price might include stands, not
sure).
Integrated amp: whatever Rotel model that is around $500.
CD player: whatever Rotel model that is around $500, again.
Cables: MIT T3 interconnects (1m) and speaker cable (8ft?).
Tuner: Oops, out of money. You'll have to listen to the radio in your
car. ;)
This system should be reasonably versatile and give you more than a
taste of high end sound.
If you want to go with used equipment, *many* possibilities. You
might want to try some place like Audio Classics and see if they can
advise you, given what they have available.
Happy trails,
--Daniel Baker
Croak
Han:
Not only is this possible given the downward price creep of quality it
is likely. Try B&K components especially the ST 140 amp used for
around $250. also their pro10 preamp. Mate this to Vandersteen 1c
speakers at around $650. A Cal Audio DX front end for around $400,
Audioquest Topaz interconnects at $65 each. Some Monster cable at
around $2.00 a foot and you'll be a happy camper for around $1800.
There are many other systems but this combo is one I've recommended to
a couple of friends who remained friends afterwards. James Croak
Richard Heck
han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim) writes:
>Here is a real puzzle for all you high end stereo buffs:
>I love high end stereo but I'm a grad student, with the financial
>problems associated with a large number of student loans. It's easy
>to think up a dream system when one's budget is in five figures. But
>how about a complete system (speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, inter
>connects, cd player, tuner, and speaker stands, if necessary) for
>$2000? Integrated amps are acceptable, as are pre-amp/tuners (like
>Adcom or Rotel). The system must be versatile enough to play
>everything from Vivaldi's Four Seasons to George Winston to Ministry.
>How about it, high end experts, up for a challenge? Then reply
>through the news group. I'd love to hear what people have to say!
I recently helped a friend buy a system for that kind of money. Of
course, one option here is to buy a lot of used gear...but he didn't
want to do that, and it's a lot harder to give much advice on that
front. We spent a lot of time listening to different stuff, and here's
what he ended up buying:
The electronics are all Parasound:
P/HP-850 pre-amp
HCA-1000 amp
C/DP-1000 CD player
Speakers are Spica TC-60s, on which one can get EXCELLENT deals these
days, since they've been discontinued. I think we got them for
something like $600, with stands.
Interconnects are AudioQuest Topaz, and the speaker cables are some
used Transparent Audio MusicWave, which we bought off the net.
That's short a tuner, and came to about $2100, total. The
interconnects could be better, but we figured he could deal with that
later, maybe find some other stuff on the net at some point, or ask
one of the local stores to keep their eyes open for him. (Most of my
own interconnects are AQ Ruby which I bought from a local shop when
they were re-wiring themselves and pulled it all up from under the
floor: I got it for dirt, bought some new terminations, soldered them
on, and I was golden.) As for a tuner, he plans to find an old analog
tuner, used, and use that. I've myself got a thirteen year old Kenwood
that I bought for about $75--and it's great.
Note that one could well construct a very similar system using Adcom
pieces, or NAD, or Sonographe. A very real option in the same ballpark
would be Acurus, except the CD player, as the Acurus is about a grand,
but there are lots of good options there, from the NAD 502, to the
Marantz CD-63, to some of the Rotels. (The Acurus pre-amps are line
stages, but you didn't mention needing a phono stage anyway.) I've
been blown away by how good some of the Acurus stuff sounds,
especially the DIA-100. It is RIDICULOUSLY transparent, although a bit
of a pain if you ever plan to upgrade, since you'd have to get a new
pre-amp and amp at the same time. But do that for $900 or so, blow
$600 on the Spicas, do a Marantz for $350, only need one set of Topaz,
and get some Type 4 or something, and you're home for $2K minus the
tuner! Or get an NAD 502, or whatever's replaced it--the 512, I think,
which is nice--for $250 and then you can do it with the tuner for $2K.
Cool tunes.
By the way: Anyone who's looking for good, relatively inexpensive
speakers MUST listen to the new Paradigm Reference series.
Richard Heck
marivic canlas salamat
In <4okt9n$9...@agate.berkeley.edu> Daniel Baker
<ba...@cvrc.med.upenn.edu> writes:
>han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim) wrote:
>
>>I love high end stereo but I'm a grad student, with the financial
>>problems associated with a large number of student loans. It's easy
>>to think up a dream system when one's budget is in five figures.
Hmmmm... a $2000 system that plays all kinds of music!!??!! I'll try!
Some possible combinations you can try:
Naim Nait 2 integrated amp (around $500, used)
Snell Type KII ( est. $275, used) or Epos ES-11 (est. $500, used)
NAD 402 tuner ( est. $200, new)
Rotel 855/955 ( est. $200, used)
Kimber 4TC ($4/foot) and Kimber PBJ ($60, 1 meter pair)
save around $150 for stands
This great little system will play Metheny, Mozart, Ministry,
Marley,etc. It will also play artists with names that don't start with
M. :)
Here's another combination you might wanna try, if you like tubes
(like me)!:
Dynaco ST-70 (est. $250, get a stock one, or a modded Van Alstine)
passive preamp (ranges from $150-? sugg: the QED unit $150, or the
cool-looking McCormack Line Drive (est. $400, used)
Spica TC-50 (one of the best, a classic, est. $300- pls. get these
instead of the 60s, my friend has the TC-60, and he prefers my 50s
which I use every now and then. I play alot with my systems.
same suggestions on the tuner, the cables, and the CD player
This is also a great little system, magical, insome ways, credit to
the sweet tubes and the great balance and imaging of the Spicas. With
either system, you'll have some money left for software, righteous
dude! Have fun!
RS
Tom Sherman
han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim) writes:
>But
>how about a complete system (speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, inter
>connects, cd player, tuner, and speaker stands, if necessary) for
>$2000? Integrated amps are acceptable, as are pre-amp/tuners (like
>Adcom or Rotel). The system must be versatile enough to play
>everything from Vivaldi's Four Seasons to George Winston to Ministry.
I'll offer up my $0.02, just because it's a little different than you'll
probably see on this newsgroup.
AMP: Acurus A150 - ~$620 versatile, powerful
PRE-AMP: Audio Alchemy DLC pre-amp - ~$350 from Zip =)
TUNER: NAD or Onkyo model around $200
CD PLAYER: Nakamichi MB-4s - ~$360 - you don't hear much about this
player, but I think it is a great budget value. Sound is
certainly more pleasing (to me) than a Marantz CD-63MkII
SPEAKERS: Paradigm LCR-150's - ~$380 - designed as HT speakers but I
think they sound great for a ~$400 speaker. More open, smoother
than NHT SZ's (IMHO). Never mentioned on here (somebody please
tell me why).
CABLES: generic 12 ga speaker wire - ~$0.70/foot - good enough for <$3000
systems, but hey, that's just what I think. Interconnects: cheap
MIT or Audioquest.
Sooooooo, that round out to just under $2000. With the addition of a sub
to complement the Paradigms, you'd be in real nice shape. You get a
powerful amp (150 wpc), great pre-amp, acceptable tuner, and very nice
speakers. If it sounds like a dealer, I'm not -- just in that kind of
mood today =)
Comments welcome...........
--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
-aLL mY wisheS spiN tO fisheS [ToM]
-tshe...@uni.uiuc.edu -lshe...@prairienet.org
-http://www.uni.uiuc.edu/~tsherman [don't expect anything to work]
Lon Stowell
In article <4okjff$4...@agate.berkeley.edu> han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim) writes:
>Here is a real puzzle for all you high end stereo buffs:
>
>(speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, interconnects, cd player, tuner,
and speaker stands, if necessary)
First kiss the tuner. Listen to it on Bose if you insist unless
you live near Boston or somewhere with a source worthy of a
good system.
You can always buy used and demos, in which case this becomes
trivial. However, that would be my recommendation since the
real purpose is to be happy until you can pay off the wolves
and get on to the important things like good audio.
Harman/Kardon integrated amp. Speaker? B&W in your budget
range. Possibly an entry level sat/sub of M&K's. You have a wide
selection to choose from at roughly $1k per setup.
Acurus integrated or simply Acurus amp, adjustable output CD
player and toss the preamp.
Cables? Computer surplus Spectra, soldering iron and some good
large gold plated terminations.
Interconnects? Radio Shack video patch for the bottom end, but
why not browbeat the Acurus dealer into tossing in some?
Speaker stands? Cinderblocks and a bit of patching cement?
Wohlf
Speakers--B&W 601 kevlar 8" 2way $550
Stands--Everyone blew off the stands! Dumb. Sanus NF21B (all MDF, with
adjustable spikes, speaker studs and a real lacquer finish) $69
Preamp--Parasound PHP 850 $395
Amp--Adcom GFA5300 $450
CD--Marantz CD63 $399
Cables--Vampire CCII $59
Speaker wire--Esoteric 10ga with Gold Spades $89
Tuner--Onkyo T-4210 $199
Total Price At Retail-$2220; Deal for 10-15% off and you are under $2000.
Farzan S.
On Thu, 30 May 1996 00:42:06 -0700, han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han Kim)
wrote:
>how about a complete system (speakers, pre-amp, amp, cables, inter
>connects, cd player, tuner, and speaker stands, if necessary) for
>$2000? Integrated amps are acceptable, as are pre-amp/tuners (like
I'm surprised no one mentioned the Creek 4240SE integrated amp. From
what I've read, it's supposed to be one of the best "budget hi-fi"
deals at around $600. Haven't tried it myself, so I'd love to hear
from someone who has.
CD - Marantz CD63SE approx $400
Speakers - B & W 602 approx $600
You won't need a pre-amp since the creek is an integrated amp.
That leave approx $400 for the used tuner, speaker stands, and
interconnects and most importantly, some good CDs!
FS :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Farzan Saleem far...@ix.netcom.com
"If trees could scream, would we still chop them down?
We might-If they screamed all the time..for no reason"
-------------------------------------------------------------
Trent Stevens
>I'm surprised no one mentioned the Creek 4240SE integrated amp. From
>what I've read, it's supposed to be one of the best "budget hi-fi"
>deals at around $600. Haven't tried it myself, so I'd love to hear
>from someone who has.
I haven't heard it either, but I've read mixed reviews of it. A
recent issue of Hi-Fi Choice basically panned it as "grainy", although
many netters have given it high praise, including someone who posted
an in-depth comparison of the 4240SE and several other integrated
amps. You might do a keyword search on DejaNews for this comparison,
or perhaps the author could repost it ;).
Of course, the best way to determine whether or not you'd like it is
to listen for yourself. Good luck!
Trent Stevens 7117...@compuserve.com
Dennis Moore
Hello,
How would you like to have a tube amp in a $2k system? Try the Golden
Tube SE-40 available used for $650 or about $950 new. Hook it to some
Spica TC-60's available for $5-600 on close out. I have heard this
combo and it is quite nice.
I would suggest the $399 Parasound cd-player. It is not the champ at
resolution but it is fairly smooth and music- al. I heard this at one
time on the Spica, Golden Tube set up. Or one of the $4-500 dollar
Pioneer LD/CD players are not a bad choice either.
For a pre-amp I suggest you build your own passive volume control.
You can build one for $30-100 (depending on your choice of pots and
resistors) that will be better than almost all if not all active
pre-amps. And the only active units that will give these passives a
run for their money cost more than the $2000 you plan for a whole
system. This assumes interconnects are short and phono is not used.
A used one made by Mod Squad or Electronic Visionary Systems. would
be another alternative. If interested in building your own e-mail me
and I will tell you how.
For a tuner I would also suggest a good used one. If high sensitivity
is not necessary an old Dynaco FM-3 is not a bad choice for $50-100.
It doesn't sound bad and it can be resold at no real loss later if you
desire.
Whatever budget is left-over I would suggest you buy the Audioquest
cables and interconnects that fit your budget.
For stands surely some fabric covered cinderblocks might be a budget
solution for the time being. Or even better try some sand filled
plywood boxes. I haven't seen this done for speakers but it sure is
good for tube amps. But you will not be able to move them once the
sand goes inside.
Good luck,
Dennis
Rndmtn
I have a Creek 4240 SE. It is a cool amp. It sort of has a Threshold
sound without the Threshold power. There is a big difference between
200 and 50 watts there. There is good bass and there is a good sense
of soundstaging. You are not going to get the wonderful tube like
imaging that you might get with some tube stuff. I remember trying
out an AMC and it sounded really good but it was rather unreliable. I
turned in my AMC preamp and Adcom amp for the Creek and I have been
rather pleased. Saved space and I did get a better bass response out
of my system.
A Creek will run you for about 800 bucks. You can then run a Marantz
CD 63SE, which is what I have. It works well for a 500 dollar CD
player and I have had no complaints about its sonics. Some may like
the NAD 502 (I think) player, the one that was considered to be a
giant killer. The Spicas are really good speakers. I like them but I
have gotten a pair of Gallo speakers and they are absolutely wonderful
in terms of space/sound compromises. PSB Alphas cost about 200 bucks
as do NHT Superzeros. NHT has no bass though. Magnaplanar has an
entry level speaker for about 500 bucks too if you want to look at
that. Radiey are on sale right now for 200 bucks a pair and the
Linaeum tweeter is really good.
Jolida makes budget tube stuff. I have not heard it but remember that
you have to replace tubes eventually. If you are on a tight budget,
you might like the solid state stuff. I'm a starving student. I like
solid state.
I personally like my Creek. I like my Marantz. Right there you have
1300 bucks. You have now 700 bucks left for a speaker.
(Interconnects and other stuff would also cost you but Kimberkable is
good stuff for the price.) Oh, yeah, there is the Vanderstein 1C. I
have heard the 1B, not bad. The 1C supposedly is much better.
good luck
d maruyama
Fred von Lohmann
In article <4okjff$4...@agate.berkeley.edu>, han...@m.cc.utah.edu (Han
Kim) wrote:
>I love high end stereo but I'm a grad student, with the financial
>problems associated with a large number of student loans. It's easy
>to think up a dream system when one's budget is in five figures. But
>how about a complete system for
>$2000?
What a great thread this is! I want to print it all so I can just
hand it out whenever my friends ask me for advice on a starter system!
All the suggestions have been quite good, but let me add my 2 cents:
Yes, the TC50 and TC60 are fabulous speakers. But the TC60s are going
for $650 w/ stands, and I know with a little patience, you could get a
used pair of Spica Angelus for that (I just sold mine for $650!). Why
settle for the TC60 when you can have Spica's flagship? (5 years of
joyous service they gave me -- not one regret)
What, no Jolida 302 recommendation? The tubed integrated amp that has
everyone talking? About $500 new, if memory serves. Should have no
trouble with an easy load like the Angelus.
Forget the tuner (the car is for listening to the radio). Forget a
tape deck (you probably have some sturdy old deck already). OK, OK,
put about $100 aside for wire. AudioQuest F4 and Ruby? Maybe Tara
Space and Time II TFA Return -- my wire of choice with the Angelus
(being blown out by Audio Advisor)?
That leaves about $900 for a CD player -- here I defer to the
expertise of others...
Oh, to be young again (in the system assembling context)! There's so
much good stuff to choose from...
Fred
--
Fred von Lohmann
floh...@leland.stanford.edu
bro...@accessone.com
I started with a pair of Magnepan MG.5 QR speakers ~$1000, since then
I have shuffled around alot of different equipment some used some not.
But the speakers have never let me down.
I strongly recommend against used equipment, it has been most unkind.
I strongly recommend using your money for components and not "high end
wire" since larger gains in performance can be had by investing in a
quality CD player and amplification. It is difficult for me to
recommend either since equipment availability is somewhat regional.
JB
[care to elaborate on the "unkind" used eq? - wsr]
Richard Heck
bro...@accessone.com writes:
>I started with a pair of Magnepan MG.5 QR speakers ~$1000, since then
>I have shuffled around alot of different equipment some used some not.
>But the speakers have never let me down.
>I strongly recommend against used equipment, it has been most unkind.
I'm sure lots of people have lots of different experiences with used
equipment--so I don't mean to contradict what jb has said here...BUT
my own experience has certianly not been like this. I've owned a whole
bunch of used equipment over the years. Let's see, a Thorens TD-321,
with a Sumiko MMT Premier arm. Once got a short in its (crappy, stock)
tonearm cable and forced me to replace it with a Cardas GoldenHexlink
cable. Real bummer, that. And a Classe Thirty pre-amp, which needs to
have one of the switches cleaned...not really a big deal there. A
Krell KSA-80B, built like a Chevy...I mean a rock...I mean well. An
absolutely ancient Kenwood tuner...analog, sounds great, dirt cheap.
And almost all of my wire was bought used--and although I've had to
re-terminate some of it, there's not a whole lot to go wrong with
that.
Besides all of that, I've bought TONS of stuff as demo...which is
used, often more used than it would be at the same age if bought from
a private person, and never had any trouble with any of it. (Yes, it
is different in that it comes with a warranty--point is, I've never
had to use any of them.) So maybe I've just had good luck, but that
kind of stuff, built to the standards to which it's built...I don't
see that it is all that risky.
By the way, I might add that there are certain things I'd be very
careful about buying used: Tape decks and CD players. Tape decks in my
experience break. It's part of their essence. And CD players--except,
I would guess, really well-built, higher-end ones, like Meridians,
say--often contain very, very cheap motors. But when that $5 motor
breaks, it'll be $100 or more to replace it. My worry, note, isn't so
much that they're complicated mechanically--so are turntables, even if
less so--but that a lot of them just aren't that well built.
Let's face it: You've just got to weigh the costs here, decide where
you want to put your money, and whether you can risk the exposure that
used equipment brings. Yes, I can spend $5K on some great new amp...or
I can spend $1500 on a used Krell...and I'd have to repair it a LOT
before I'd be in the red on that deal. And that KSA-80B will beat the
pants off a whole bunch of expensive amps, despite its age. I know.
I've tried it. (It'll blow out most of the last-generation Krells,
for one thing, and a whole bunch of the Classe CA-xx0 series, too.)
And you can be sure there's nothing out there for $1500 that'll do
what it'll do. Me? I'll take the risk, if the price seems right. As
Steven Stone put it in his review of some TNT upgrades...the high-end
isn't about compromise.
Richard Heck
Sugiman
Having just come back from the HF '96 Show, here are a couple of
suggestions:
Roy Hall (of Music Hall) had a killer sounding system for less than
$3k that were based on Creek electronics (4240SE plus some digital
source I don't remember) and the soon-to-be-released Epos ES12, a
replacement for the ES11. I think the amp goes for, like, $600 and
the speakers will be around $1k, either or both would be a nice
addition to a budget system. Also, with the arrival of the ES12, I
bet a fair number of retailers will be marking down their ES11's,
which is supposed to be a great speaker as well, come September or so.
The other thing at the show that caught my ear were the rediculously
cheap and tiny, PSB Alpha Mini loudspeakers. These $200 little
brothers to the budget champs Alphas sounded like five time the
speaker in almost every way (cost performance, bass response). Might
be worth a listen if you would like to spend you $'s more heavily in
another area in your system.
Most of the other components I can think of have already shown up in
this thread, so I won't repeat them.
Happy listening.
EM
Stewart Pinkerton
he...@husc.HARVARD.EDU (Richard Heck) writes:
> Let's face it: You've just got to weigh the costs here, decide where
> you want to put your money, and whether you can risk the exposure that
> used equipment brings. Yes, I can spend $5K on some great new amp...or
> I can spend $1500 on a used Krell...and I'd have to repair it a LOT
> before I'd be in the red on that deal. And that KSA-80B will beat the
> pants off a whole bunch of expensive amps, despite its age. I know.
> I've tried it. (It'll blow out most of the last-generation Krells,
> for one thing, and a whole bunch of the Classe CA-xx0 series, too.)
I'd go along with most of that, especially on used Krells. Mine's the
even older KSA-50mkII which I also believe is better than most of the
new 'super-amps'. It's hard to beat 'real' class A and I reckon the
KSA-80B and especially its twin bro the DMA-160 are the best amps they
or anybody else ever made ('course I would say that!). High-end amps
(and tuners) are built STRONG with top-class parts and will generally
last a long long time without problems. Krell seem particularly good
used value (translate as let some rich fashion-conscious dude buy a
new one, like with yachts). The other 'safe' used buy, apart from
cables, is high-end loudspeakers. With the exception of those with
foam surrounds and Maggie ribbon tweeters, speakers are very reliable
and any damage is immediately obvious on inspection or listening. My
five year old ex-dem Apogee Duetta Signatures are still 'as new' and
sound great, they and the Krell cost just over half the new price and
were about a year old when I bought them. Five years on they're still
working perfectly and anything I've liked better has been well in
excess of $10,000, like the superb Avalon Radian.
OTOH, I wouldn't touch a used turntable, arm or cartridge, they're
very fragile and it's far too easy for them to suffer some slight
damage which doesn't affect the sound too obviously, just enough so
they sound the same as entry level gear! CD players have a different
problem, the standard has improved so much in the past two or three
years that a new single-box player is probably the best buy. I
wouldn't know about tape decks, they're not hi-fi :-) but they do have
lots of little motors and belts whizzing round in there, also the
heads wear out.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | If you can't measure what you're making,
A S P Consulting | how do you know when you've got it made?
(44) 1509 880112 |
Jason Chu
Richard Heck (he...@husc.HARVARD.EDU) wrote:
: I've tried it. (It'll blow out most of the last-generation Krells,
: for one thing, and a whole bunch of the Classe CA-xx0 series, too.)
: And you can be sure there's nothing out there for $1500 that'll do
: what it'll do. Me? I'll take the risk, if the price seems right. As
: Steven Stone put it in his review of some TNT upgrades...the high-end
: isn't about compromise.
I agree. High-end equipment is built so solid that I've never had
problemns with used/demo stuff. It's just that the stuff has terrible
depreciation. Also, guys who buy Krells, and Thetas aren't exactly
thugs who would abuse their equipment so I think 1-2 year old stuff is
a slam dunk based on my experiences.
dzihlman
> Let's face it: You've just got to weigh the costs here, decide where
> you want to put your money, and whether you can risk the exposure that
> used equipment brings.
I had to add to this excellent post because when I was a grad student
my audio desires exceeded my lack of funds! You can buy used stuff to
have a stereo now, then upgrade when you get a job.
Buying used is a lot more fun when there isn't any stress
involved. Buying and compairing used gear lets you figure out what
kind of stereo you want, at your leisure.
The price range is vast, from Krells to Dynacos. Most of the used gear
is unlikely to break and easy to have fixed if it does. You can't go
wrong with most of the "blue chip" audiophile brands. But there is
also lots of less lofty gear which sounds great and will be easy on
the budget.
I've always enjoyed used gear - if it sounded great five years ago
it'll sound pretty good today, often for a song. Consider the
possibilities!
"The el cheapo student with no bucks special" This is the cheapest
system imaginable, but it will blow away much more expensive systems
in musical enjoyment:
Buy a good quality tube receiver or integrated amp (like a old Scott)
for a hundred bucks or so. (My friend Geoff bought one for his office
system that was gone through with new tubes for $75. I bought one at
the Salvation army thrift store for $15. ) Amazing great sound! I used
mine in my home system instead of my usaul separate components to try
it out and it is very, very listenable. Way better than the typical
receiver. Fabulous FM, too.
Search out some used speakers, according to your budget: Large Advents
(available in a thrift store for under $50 per pair) or upgrade to
Spica SC-50s ($250), Magnapan MG-1 ($350-450) or Vanderstein 2c
($500).
Find a deal on (used kimber of audioquest, etc.) interconnects (or buy
Kimber PB&J in bulk from Parts Connection and solder your own).
Add a good budget CD player like the Marantz SE-63 (don't scimp here!)
and you have amazing sound for peanuts.
There are too many great used components to even mention, but consider
B&K and Adcom separates for cheaper solid state (the B&K ST140 will
set you back $250) and is reliable. Dynaco tube gear is almost free
(buy a checked out ST-70 for $200) Quicksilver, conrad-johnson, and
others have better tube gear for more bucks, but still cheap for the
quality.
Speakers are too numerous to mention, but stick to well known
"audiophile" brands, or buy some of the excellent new inexpensive
speakers.
When I was in grad school, the Brown U. library had back issuses of
Absolute Sound, so I could plan my attack using the old reviews. Many
hours were rendered non-productive by "research" of this kind!
Happy listening!
The Paper Source
How much I appreciate that posting!
Too many "audiophiles" get so enamored of the latest equipment that
they give second place (or less) to the enjoyment of the music, e.g.,
if it's not the most expensive equipment rated "A" -- or if you must
scrape the bottom of the barrel, "B" -- by Stereophile (this quarter),
it's not worth having.
What a con.
The best-kept secret in audio is used equipment.
Tim Meador
Stuart Pinkerton wrote:
>>I wouldn't know about tape decks, they're not hi-fi<<
Hmmm...must be a real problem for you gettin' the most out of your
Krells an' stuff, since almost everything you play through them was
recorded on a tape deck of some kind. Since even a really good
cassette deck, properly calibrated and loaded with quality tape, is
capable of better performance than LP, (particularly the inner 1/3 or
so of the record) I would definetely say even they qualify as "hi-fi".
Tim in KC
Rndmtn
I remember vaguely there was something of a hi end cassette deck
manufactured by Nakamichi called the Dragon. I still think that
cassette players do have an ability to sound as good as LPs without
the setup problems.
The open reel tape player was considered to be the premier platform
for a while. I would not count out tapes as of yet. Apparently, many
CDs are still being recorded on analog tapes. The reason: sound
quality. Don't flame me on that one either. It is the recording
engineers making that choice, not me. Of course maybe if everyone had
a Nagra Digital Open reel player then things might change.
I am somewhat cautious about buying a used tape player though. I
would buy a used turntable like an AR because there are parts
available for it. Cassette decks seem to be constantly revised and it
would make more sense to just buy one from the dealer. Heck, you can
pick up a cassette deck with Dolby S for under 500 bucks now.
d maruyama
Stewart Pinkerton
Tim Meador <73133...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>Stuart Pinkerton wrote:
Touche! I meant cassette decks as I do actually have a couple of open
reel decks, one Tandberg and one Nagra, although I no longer use them.
I still don't like cassette decks and while they are capable of MAKING
a half-way decent recording, the commercially available software is
generally much inferior even to LP, let alone CD.
Richard Heck
>Stuart Pinkerton wrote:
>Hmmm...must be a real problem for you gettin' the most out of your
>Krells an' stuff, since almost everything you play through them was
>recorded on a tape deck of some kind. Since even a really good
>cassette deck, properly calibrated and loaded with quality tape, is
>capable of better performance than LP, (particularly the inner 1/3 or
>so of the record) I would definetely say even they qualify as "hi-fi".
Well, I didn't write the original post to which this was a response,
but I rather doubt that cassette tape is capable of anything like the
same performance as vinyl....having listened to a lot of both. While
it's true that many good recordings are done on analog tape, they
certainly are NOT recorded onto 1/4" tape at 1.875"/sec. The open reel
standard the other poster talks about was onto wider tape (1/2"?) at
speeds upwards of 15". And some analog recordings are done at
30"/sec. Both tape width and speed affect frequency range and dynamic
range (and, for that reason, ultimate noise level).
Not that there aren't some good cassette decks out there, and not that
they can't sound pretty good. Just not THAT good.
Richard Heck
Stewart Pinkerton
he...@husc.harvard.edu (Richard Heck) writes:
>>Stuart Pinkerton wrote:
Well, I sure didn't write the one you ascribe to me either - check the
indents and you'll find it is a response to my saying I didn't know
much about cassette decks 'cos they're not hi-fi.
I entirely agree that pre-recorded cassettes do not match even LP for
sound quality, cramming 4 tracks onto an 1/8"" tape at 1.875"/sec is
not as you say a recipe for ultimate fidelity, especially given that
tape noise and distortion from 30"/sec two-track 1/4" or 1/2" analogue
tape can clearly be heard on CDs (Sheffield Labs etc)!
Eleanor Ide
>>>recorded on a tape deck of some kind. Since even a really good
>>>cassette deck, properly calibrated and loaded with quality tape, is
>>they can't sound pretty good. Just not THAT good.
>Well, I sure didn't write the one you ascribe to me either - check the
>indents and you'll find it is a response to my saying I didn't know
>much about cassette decks 'cos they're not hi-fi.
Eh? Pardon me, but tape width/speed statistics aside, the Sony KA3ES
tape deck is unquestionably hi-fi. I would venture that other decks
offering low (like .02%) WRMS wow & flutter, frequency response out to
22KHz on Metal tape, Dolby S, and adjustable bias, record eq, and
record level controls, are capable of hi-fi performance as well.
Cassettes aren't like they used to be.
___________________________Klisma *