My (limited) understanding is that what makes high-end CD players so
good is their superior Digital to Analog conversion. So if you're going
to take the digital output (optic or coax) from such players and plug it
into a amplifier you're NOT going to get any benefit; you might as well
play the CDs on a 20 dollar CD player. To really enjoy their superior
playback quality you have to use the analog output and a good quality
amplifier.

Am I right?

Only partly, because you're making several huge assumptions about
price vs. quality in audio.

As a start it might help to actually find out what DACs are in
particular pieces of CD gear. Economies of scale can allow
the majors to use chips in their AVRS that are as good, or better,
than those found in boutique players costing several times as
much.

But it is certainly true that to listen to a *player's* DACs, you
have to use its analog outs.  Otherwise you are using it as a
transport only.

--
-S
maybe they wanna rock.
maybe they need to rock.
Maybe it's for the money?  But That's none of our business..our business as fans is to rock
with them.

On May 10, 12:52 am, 223rem <223...@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends what you mean by "superior." If you mean "audibly superior,"
then, no, high-end players are no better at D/A conversion than most
inexpensive models. D/A conversion is, at this stage, a trivial
process that even really cheap chips can do cleanly.

This is true.

Unless you're looking for distorted sound (or wishful thinking),
there's no such thing as superior CD playback anymore.

bob

On May 10, 12:52 am, 223rem <223...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is not much about a CD player that is exotic these days.
Relatively low-cost players can sound very good regardless of which
output is used. In principle, there is no reason why a $20 CD player
couldn't provide good results although I would not recommending such a
unit for a variety of reasons aside from sound quality. If you go
through the RAHE archive you can find many recommendations for CD
players in the $150 or so price range that provide excellent sound.

Not too long ago I visited a high end shop for the purpose of auditioning a
particular loudspeaker. Naturally I brought with me some CD-Rs with a
specific purpose in mind. I recall the salesman saying that the (high end)
CD player in that showroom might not be able to read/play my CD-Rs because
it was rather fussy in this regard. I don't know if this is characteristic
of any other high end players. If it is, then buyer beware, particularly if
you anticipate being able to play CD-Rs of varying manufacture. Perhaps
others here can tell us of their experiences in this regard.

OK thanks everyone. So is it likely that a a cheapo CD player used as
a transport in combination with an OK receiver (I have a mosfet-based
Panasonic) will be just as good as a good CD player (one with high
quality DAC)?

news:g04m5902lua@news2.newsguy.com...

It will be as good  as the DAC in your receiver. These days it is hard to
make a bad DAC, so I would expect that the sound would be as good from a
cheapo CD player used as a transport as from a "high quality" CD player
using analogue outputs.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Norman M. Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:g04m1n02lr3@news2.newsguy.com...

Indeed.  If I were to be in the market for a more expensive CD player, the
first thing I'd do is make sure it will play everything I throw at it, and
do it without burps, belches or other discontinuities.

I see no reason to buy any player that does not play all discs of the genus
CD or DVD.

Norm Strong

On May 10, 10:29 am, "Norman M. Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> wrote:

 I have an AMC CD-9 which, from the service manual, is the same as the
CD-8 without balanced output.  It's very fussy about CD-Rs.
IME, current DVD players as CD players have no problem with CD-Rs and
provide the benefit of playing MP3 files etc.

I've also looked for CD players which use the latest in DAC chips from
the likes of AKM and Analog Devices.  The player market appears to lag
significantly behind external devices for implementing latest DAC
chips with sound cards or external wireless, USB or Firewire DACs
being the early adopters.
I've read a bit from people who spoke of inherent flaws in SPDIF from
transports, clock jitter and lack of error correction being
mentioned.  I'd be interested in comments on validating or refuting
these inherent issues.

ScottW

On Fri, 9 May 2008 21:52:02 -0700, 223rem wrote
(in article <g039li01...@news4.newsguy.com>):

First of all, if you take the digital output and plug that into an amplifier,
all you will get is "computer noise" (actually, you likely won't get anything
that you can actually hear, at all.) because you must go through some kind of
DAC first. :->

But makers of high-end  CD players do a number of things to justify their
price. Many use special transports (the mechanical part of the player)
designed to reduce jitter and stabilize the CD as it spins. Many use special
clock circuits, again to reduce jitter and some separate the analog power
supply from the digital power supply, in an effort to keep digital clocking
noise out of the music. Some use expensive DACs designed to reduce
quantization error by making each stair-step more precisely the same size.
Others use discrete transistor or even tube analog stages over IC operational
amplifiers for "better sound". And still others use such tricks as processing
a 16-bit CD with a 24-bit DAC and oversampling at 96 KHz.  None of these
measures will hurt the sound of the CD, and on a theoretical level, many of
these things should be improvements over a cheap CD player with a cheap,
run-of-the-mill chip set. The problem is that nobody has been able
demonstrate that any of these "featured improvements", either alone or in
concert with others, makes for better CD playback.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:31:21 -0700, 223rem wrote
(in article <g04m5902...@news2.newsguy.com>):

You can't just plug a digital output into an amplifier (unless that amp has a
on-board Digital-to-Analog converter). Even if it does, its a toss-up as to
whether or not the DAC in the receiver (amp) is any better than the one in
the CD player. Mostly the DACs in receivers are for decoding 5.1 and DTS
sound from video DVDs (although they will play regular CDs). Mostly because
it's easier to run one digital coaxial cable or optical TOSLINK cable from
one's DVD player to one's receiver than it is to run SIX cables carrying the
already decoded 5.1 or DTS audio to a receiver.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:29:27 -0700, Norman M. Schwartz wrote
(in article <g04m1n02...@news2.newsguy.com>):

Most CD players these days, irrespective of cost or pretension will play
CD-R's and even rewritable CD-Rs. But the previous poster has brought-up a
good point. If a high-end player won't playa CD-R, my advice is give it a
miss.