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How Kripke and Abrams came up with "Revolution"
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David
Nov 12, 2012, 11:51:03 PM11/12/12
to
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
by James Hibberd
It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image last summer.
His previous series Supernatural was inspired by a similarly random
mental snapshot � �a girl on the ceiling on fire.� Now he had this new
idea, the coffee shop sword fight. Kripke didn�t know who the fighting
men were or why they were using medieval weapons. He only knew he
wanted to somehow take modern-day America and roll it back
pre-industrial times, to write a quest story like Star Wars or Lord of
the Rings, only in a land peppered by freeways and fast food
restaurants.
�I wanted to take everything I love about Lord of the Rings � swords
and swashbuckling and quests and damsels in distress � put all that
deep nerd fantasy stuff on the American highway,� Kripke says.
So he took the idea to primetime�s reigning master of big concepts,
producer J.J. Abrams (Lost, Person of Interest), who saw the
potential, particularly the inherent appeal of a back-to-basics rustic
setting. �It�s wish fulfillment,� Abrams says. �We�re constantly being
bombarded. It�s a silencing of the din that we live in right now.�
Moreover, Abrams says stripping away technology can help a show
creatively, just like with the stranded island castaways on ABC�s
Lost. �One of the things that�s difficult and frustrating about all
the technology we have is it eliminates a lot of potential for drama,�
Abrams says. �[Characters] can communicate instantly, they can
research things, they can jump on a plane and be anywhere. Writers
contort themselves to eliminate cell phones from scenes. And one of
the beautiful byproducts of Kripke�s idea is that there�s no longer
that immediate access.�
But Abrams didn�t like Kripke�s apocalyptic device for wiping out
modern conveniences. Kripke originally wanted to have the country
depopulated by a super virus. But that was deemed too familiar, too
much like Stephen King�s The Stand. Instead, Abrams suggested an idea
his company had been kicking around: Surviving the fallout of a
nationwide blackout.
A few weeks later, the duo had a meeting at NBC�s Burbank offices.
Now if you�ve ever wondered how producers sell a TV show, pay
attention to this next part.
Abrams and Kripke settled into their seats across from NBC�s executive
team, which included entertainment president Jennifer Salke and
entertainment chairman Robert Greenblatt. After the refreshments were
offered and the niceties concluded, Abrams gestured at the 15th floor
window and jam-packed 101 freeway beyond.
�Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,�
Abrams said. ��Now imagine right now that everything stopped.�
All the executives, Salke recalled, �immediately leaned in.�
Not just cars and lights outside, Abrams continues, but everything in
this office � these computers, Blackberrys, everything is dead. How
would you get home? Where are your kids, your parents? How would reach
them?
�What was important,� Abrams said later, �was to really get them to
stop for a minute and consider what they would do.� Only after some
playful discussion about how each person in the room would react to
the crisis did producers launch into the show�s story, about a young
girl teaming with her warrior uncle on a quest to rescue her kidnapped
brother.
It was exactly the sort of higher-than-high concept NBC wanted. The
network hadn�t a hit drama since 2006's Heroes. And even after
big-idea disappointments like The Cape and The Event, executives
believed that only a really bold project could break though the heavy
fall competition and spark a creative revival. �We couldn�t just put
out a cop show,� Salke says.
A few months later, Kripke turned in his script. But Salke proposed a
rather huge change. His story was exclusively focused on teenage
Charlie�s quest. The NBC executive suggested making the series more of
an ensemble epic series: More characters, higher stakes. Kripke dove
back in, and revamped the story, expanding the scope. �Eric made a
Herculean effort to address all those things in a very short period of
time,� Abrams says.
Producers quickly scooped up Giancarlo Esposito off his Emmy-nominated
performance in AMC�s Breaking Bad to play Monroe�s congenially
psychotic Capt. Tom Neville. But casting the Han Solo-inspired Miles
proved far tougher. Production started on the pilot with the role
unfilled and Billy Burke on board as Gen. Monroe.
Burke, best known as Bella�s glum dad in the Twilight films, had
lobbied for the Miles, but producers just didn�t see it. Then Kripke
and pilot director Jon Favreau watched the actor dominate a scene as
the show�s villain. �We turned to each other and asked, �Why isn�t it
Billy?� Kripke recalls. �[We realized] anyone we cast as Miles he�s
going to blow off the screen.�
With the cast was in place, producers had another issue. The title.
Kripke�s first choice was Revolution, but there was a new daytime ABC
talk show with the same name. Producers considered Downfall, Uprising,
Blackout and more. �J.J. and I were kicking around crazy ones �
Transistor, Resistor, Transponder,� Kripke says. Then ABC cancelled
their Revolution and suddenly the title was available.
NBC gave Revolution its best fall drama slot, airing after The Voice
at 10 p.m. on Monday nights. Premiere ratings surprised, delivering
the biggest drama premiere in the valuable adult demo on any network
in three years, and pulling the biggest DVR gain of any drama on the
air. Since then, the show�s numbers have slipped, yet Revolution still
easily rules its time slot. Revolution will face a new challenge after
its midseason finale airs at the end of November, taking an extended
break before returning March 25. The gap allows NBC to keep Revolution
paired with The Voice for the back half of the season.
How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
by James Hibberd
It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image last summer.
His previous series Supernatural was inspired by a similarly random
mental snapshot � �a girl on the ceiling on fire.� Now he had this new
idea, the coffee shop sword fight. Kripke didn�t know who the fighting
men were or why they were using medieval weapons. He only knew he
wanted to somehow take modern-day America and roll it back
pre-industrial times, to write a quest story like Star Wars or Lord of
the Rings, only in a land peppered by freeways and fast food
restaurants.
�I wanted to take everything I love about Lord of the Rings � swords
and swashbuckling and quests and damsels in distress � put all that
deep nerd fantasy stuff on the American highway,� Kripke says.
So he took the idea to primetime�s reigning master of big concepts,
producer J.J. Abrams (Lost, Person of Interest), who saw the
potential, particularly the inherent appeal of a back-to-basics rustic
setting. �It�s wish fulfillment,� Abrams says. �We�re constantly being
bombarded. It�s a silencing of the din that we live in right now.�
Moreover, Abrams says stripping away technology can help a show
creatively, just like with the stranded island castaways on ABC�s
Lost. �One of the things that�s difficult and frustrating about all
the technology we have is it eliminates a lot of potential for drama,�
Abrams says. �[Characters] can communicate instantly, they can
research things, they can jump on a plane and be anywhere. Writers
contort themselves to eliminate cell phones from scenes. And one of
the beautiful byproducts of Kripke�s idea is that there�s no longer
that immediate access.�
But Abrams didn�t like Kripke�s apocalyptic device for wiping out
modern conveniences. Kripke originally wanted to have the country
depopulated by a super virus. But that was deemed too familiar, too
much like Stephen King�s The Stand. Instead, Abrams suggested an idea
his company had been kicking around: Surviving the fallout of a
nationwide blackout.
A few weeks later, the duo had a meeting at NBC�s Burbank offices.
Now if you�ve ever wondered how producers sell a TV show, pay
attention to this next part.
Abrams and Kripke settled into their seats across from NBC�s executive
team, which included entertainment president Jennifer Salke and
entertainment chairman Robert Greenblatt. After the refreshments were
offered and the niceties concluded, Abrams gestured at the 15th floor
window and jam-packed 101 freeway beyond.
�Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,�
Abrams said. ��Now imagine right now that everything stopped.�
All the executives, Salke recalled, �immediately leaned in.�
Not just cars and lights outside, Abrams continues, but everything in
this office � these computers, Blackberrys, everything is dead. How
would you get home? Where are your kids, your parents? How would reach
them?
�What was important,� Abrams said later, �was to really get them to
stop for a minute and consider what they would do.� Only after some
playful discussion about how each person in the room would react to
the crisis did producers launch into the show�s story, about a young
girl teaming with her warrior uncle on a quest to rescue her kidnapped
brother.
It was exactly the sort of higher-than-high concept NBC wanted. The
network hadn�t a hit drama since 2006's Heroes. And even after
big-idea disappointments like The Cape and The Event, executives
believed that only a really bold project could break though the heavy
fall competition and spark a creative revival. �We couldn�t just put
out a cop show,� Salke says.
A few months later, Kripke turned in his script. But Salke proposed a
rather huge change. His story was exclusively focused on teenage
Charlie�s quest. The NBC executive suggested making the series more of
an ensemble epic series: More characters, higher stakes. Kripke dove
back in, and revamped the story, expanding the scope. �Eric made a
Herculean effort to address all those things in a very short period of
time,� Abrams says.
Producers quickly scooped up Giancarlo Esposito off his Emmy-nominated
performance in AMC�s Breaking Bad to play Monroe�s congenially
psychotic Capt. Tom Neville. But casting the Han Solo-inspired Miles
proved far tougher. Production started on the pilot with the role
unfilled and Billy Burke on board as Gen. Monroe.
Burke, best known as Bella�s glum dad in the Twilight films, had
lobbied for the Miles, but producers just didn�t see it. Then Kripke
and pilot director Jon Favreau watched the actor dominate a scene as
the show�s villain. �We turned to each other and asked, �Why isn�t it
Billy?� Kripke recalls. �[We realized] anyone we cast as Miles he�s
going to blow off the screen.�
With the cast was in place, producers had another issue. The title.
Kripke�s first choice was Revolution, but there was a new daytime ABC
talk show with the same name. Producers considered Downfall, Uprising,
Blackout and more. �J.J. and I were kicking around crazy ones �
Transistor, Resistor, Transponder,� Kripke says. Then ABC cancelled
their Revolution and suddenly the title was available.
NBC gave Revolution its best fall drama slot, airing after The Voice
at 10 p.m. on Monday nights. Premiere ratings surprised, delivering
the biggest drama premiere in the valuable adult demo on any network
in three years, and pulling the biggest DVR gain of any drama on the
air. Since then, the show�s numbers have slipped, yet Revolution still
easily rules its time slot. Revolution will face a new challenge after
its midseason finale airs at the end of November, taking an extended
break before returning March 25. The gap allows NBC to keep Revolution
paired with The Voice for the back half of the season.
Your Name
Nov 13, 2012, 12:47:55 AM11/13/12
to
In article <37k3a89d6tihu3bd2...@4ax.com>, David
push the flush button. Abrams looked down and said, "Now that looks like a
grreat idea for a show" ... the same way he gets all his ideas ... someone
else's left-over crap. ;-)
<diml...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
>
> How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
> by James Hibberd
>
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
Then they stopped by the toilet where the previous person had forgotten to
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
>
> How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
> by James Hibberd
>
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
push the flush button. Abrams looked down and said, "Now that looks like a
grreat idea for a show" ... the same way he gets all his ideas ... someone
else's left-over crap. ;-)
Obveeus
Nov 13, 2012, 9:01:36 AM11/13/12
to
"David" <diml...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
>
> How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
> "What was important," Abrams said later, "was to really get them to
> stop for a minute and consider what they would do." Only after some
> playful discussion about how each person in the room would react to
> the crisis did producers launch into the show's story, about a young
> girl teaming with her warrior uncle on a quest to rescue her kidnapped
> brother.
And thus they created a world where even staying in your own home isn't safe
> stop for a minute and consider what they would do." Only after some
> playful discussion about how each person in the room would react to
> the crisis did producers launch into the show's story, about a young
> girl teaming with her warrior uncle on a quest to rescue her kidnapped
> brother.
because armed marauders will break in, steal from you, rape you, kill
you...but in this same world two teen/pre-teen girls can wander across the
country unharmed, as can a beautiful female British doctor.
> Producers quickly scooped up Giancarlo Esposito off his Emmy-nominated
> performance in AMC's Breaking Bad to play Monroe's congenially
> psychotic Capt. Tom Neville. But casting the Han Solo-inspired Miles
> proved far tougher. Production started on the pilot with the role
> unfilled and Billy Burke on board as Gen. Monroe.
>
> Burke, best known as Bella's glum dad in the Twilight films, had
> lobbied for the Miles, but producers just didn't see it. Then Kripke
> and pilot director Jon Favreau watched the actor dominate a scene as
> the show's villain. "We turned to each other and asked, 'Why isn't it
> Billy?' Kripke recalls. "[We realized] anyone we cast as Miles he's
> going to blow off the screen."
would not blow Billy Burke off the screen...a tall task indeed.
> NBC gave Revolution its best fall drama slot, airing after The Voice
> at 10 p.m. on Monday nights. Premiere ratings surprised, delivering
> the biggest drama premiere in the valuable adult demo on any network
> in three years, and pulling the biggest DVR gain of any drama on the
> air. Since then, the show's numbers have slipped, yet Revolution still
> easily rules its time slot. Revolution will face a new challenge after
> its midseason finale airs at the end of November, taking an extended
> break before returning March 25. The gap allows NBC to keep Revolution
> paired with The Voice for the back half of the season.
Ian J. Ball
Nov 13, 2012, 10:23:00 AM11/13/12
to
They were really, really high.
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
Dimensional Traveler
Nov 13, 2012, 9:46:54 PM11/13/12
to
On 11/12/2012 8:51 PM, David wrote:
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
>
> How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
> by James Hibberd
>
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>
<massive snip>
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/12/revolution-pitch/
>
> How J.J. Abrams pitched 'Revolution'
> by James Hibberd
>
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>
In other words, they took the worst parts of two incompatible ideas,
mashed them together and pitched the results to a network flailing
desperately that would buy anything from the latest no-talent wunderkid.
--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.
Ed Stasiak
Nov 14, 2012, 12:41:24 AM11/14/12
to
> David
>
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
> last summer.
*cough-Emberverse-cough*
> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
> last summer.
Jim G.
Nov 14, 2012, 3:34:46 PM11/14/12
to
David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really ready for this day to be over." -- Duke Crocker, HAVEN
> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really ready for this day to be over." -- Duke Crocker, HAVEN
Jim G.
Nov 14, 2012, 3:34:46 PM11/14/12
to
Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
> They were really, really high.
The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
shawn
Nov 14, 2012, 4:52:46 PM11/14/12
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G.
<jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
>> They were really, really high.
>
>The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
>reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
>mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
>comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
I don't have a problem with them being fascinated by the pitch. It
<jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
>> They were really, really high.
>
>The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
>reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
>mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
>comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
does sound interesting. The question is how do you take this
interesting idea and build it into something that can last for even a
season let alone years. The idea could work well as a short story or
even a movie of the week, but making it work for a series is an
entirely different matter. It's also something that the network suits
didn't seem too interested in discussing or at least they didn't press
for answers.
Mason Barge
Nov 14, 2012, 5:43:49 PM11/14/12
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
>David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
>> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
>> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
>> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
>
>If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
>new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
>really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
>> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
>> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
>> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
>
>If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
>new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
>really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
days, it's doing quite well.
It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for the
Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and some Southern
senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right to be represented."
William December Starr
Nov 14, 2012, 7:59:36 PM11/14/12
to
In article <6g78a8hfd8n79jte4...@4ax.com>,
On January 19, 1970, after Clement Haynsworth of South
Carolina was rejected by the U.S. Senate for an
appointment to the United States Supreme Court,
President Nixon nominated Carswell to be an Associate
Justice of the Supreme Court to replace Justice Abe
Fortas, an appointee of former U.S. President Lyndon B.
Johnson.
[...]
In defense against charges that Carswell was "mediocre",
U.S. Senator Roman Hruska, a Nebraska Republican,
stated:
"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of
mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are
entitled to a little representation, aren't they,
and a little chance? We can't have all
Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos."
Hruska's remark was criticized by many and may have
damaged Carswell's cause.
On April 8, 1970, the United States Senate refused to
confirm Carswell's nomination to serve on the Supreme
Court. The vote was 51 to 45. Seventeen Democrats and
twenty-eight Republicans voted for Carswell.
Thirty-eight Democrats and thirteen Republicans voted
against him.
-- wds
Mason Barge <mason...@gmail.com> said:
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for
> the Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and
> some Southern senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right
> to be represented."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Harrold_Carswell>
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for
> the Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and
> some Southern senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right
> to be represented."
On January 19, 1970, after Clement Haynsworth of South
Carolina was rejected by the U.S. Senate for an
appointment to the United States Supreme Court,
President Nixon nominated Carswell to be an Associate
Justice of the Supreme Court to replace Justice Abe
Fortas, an appointee of former U.S. President Lyndon B.
Johnson.
[...]
In defense against charges that Carswell was "mediocre",
U.S. Senator Roman Hruska, a Nebraska Republican,
stated:
"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of
mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are
entitled to a little representation, aren't they,
and a little chance? We can't have all
Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos."
Hruska's remark was criticized by many and may have
damaged Carswell's cause.
On April 8, 1970, the United States Senate refused to
confirm Carswell's nomination to serve on the Supreme
Court. The vote was 51 to 45. Seventeen Democrats and
twenty-eight Republicans voted for Carswell.
Thirty-eight Democrats and thirteen Republicans voted
against him.
-- wds
Stan Brown
Nov 14, 2012, 8:56:31 PM11/14/12
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500, David wrote:
> ?I wanted to take everything I love about Lord of the Rings ? swords
> and swashbuckling and quests and damsels in distress ?
That's sad, that he has no idea what the book is about. LotR (at
least Tolkien's version) is not about swords and swashbuckling, and
it contains not a single damsel in distress. It is also not about
quests, though it is about one quest, so I suppose we can forgive
Kripke's use of the plural.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
> ?I wanted to take everything I love about Lord of the Rings ? swords
> and swashbuckling and quests and damsels in distress ?
That's sad, that he has no idea what the book is about. LotR (at
least Tolkien's version) is not about swords and swashbuckling, and
it contains not a single damsel in distress. It is also not about
quests, though it is about one quest, so I suppose we can forgive
Kripke's use of the plural.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
Stan Brown
Nov 14, 2012, 8:57:41 PM11/14/12
to
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:43:49 -0500, Mason Barge wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
> >> ?Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,?
>
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
> >> Abrams said. ??Now imagine right now that everything stopped.?
> >> All the executives, Salke recalled, ?immediately leaned in.?
> >
> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
> days, it's doing quite well.
>
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for the
> Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and some Southern
> senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right to be represented."
Clement Haynesworth, in Nixon's reign. You're paraphrasing, but it's
> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
> days, it's doing quite well.
>
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for the
> Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and some Southern
> senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right to be represented."
a fair representation of what was said.
Dimensional Traveler
Nov 14, 2012, 10:21:54 PM11/14/12
to
mini-series or TV movies anymore. Its full series or nothing.
Your Name
Nov 15, 2012, 12:16:16 AM11/15/12
to
In article <d9l7a8921gpc2i735...@4ax.com>, Jim G.
all mentally comparable to an infant too. :-(
<jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
> > They were really, really high.
>
> The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
> reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
> mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
> comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
The average TV viewer, average internet user, and average human being are
> Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
> > They were really, really high.
>
> The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
> reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
> mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
> comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
all mentally comparable to an infant too. :-(
jack....@gmail.com
Nov 15, 2012, 10:35:16 AM11/15/12
to
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>On 11/14/2012 1:52 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G.
>> <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't have a problem with them being fascinated by the pitch. It
>> does sound interesting. The question is how do you take this
>> interesting idea and build it into something that can last for even a
>> season let alone years. The idea could work well as a short story or
>> even a movie of the week, but making it work for a series is an
>> entirely different matter. It's also something that the network suits
>> didn't seem too interested in discussing or at least they didn't press
>> for answers.
>>
>The broadcast networks simply don't think of, let along make,
>mini-series or TV movies anymore. Its full series or nothing.
"Full series" being 13 episodes.
>On 11/14/2012 1:52 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G.
>> <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't have a problem with them being fascinated by the pitch. It
>> does sound interesting. The question is how do you take this
>> interesting idea and build it into something that can last for even a
>> season let alone years. The idea could work well as a short story or
>> even a movie of the week, but making it work for a series is an
>> entirely different matter. It's also something that the network suits
>> didn't seem too interested in discussing or at least they didn't press
>> for answers.
>>
>The broadcast networks simply don't think of, let along make,
>mini-series or TV movies anymore. Its full series or nothing.
One does find intriguing the idea of someone with just that much story
to tell getting a full series "commitment" from a network and then
blowing up the ability to extend production. (For some reason the
phrase, "Never work in this town again" comes to mind.)
--
-Jack
Mason Barge
Nov 15, 2012, 11:32:51 AM11/15/12
to
On 14 Nov 2012 19:59:36 -0500, wds...@panix.com (William December Starr)
wrote:
It was a bad moment in US judicial history. Clement Haynsworth was an
excellent judge with good appellate experience, albeit a bit conservative.
His railroading was a low point.
Whereas, Carswell was a bad choice and needed to be rejected.
wrote:
excellent judge with good appellate experience, albeit a bit conservative.
His railroading was a low point.
Whereas, Carswell was a bad choice and needed to be rejected.
Jim G.
Nov 16, 2012, 3:42:45 PM11/16/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:43:49 -0500:
much of it is a reflection of the needs for skiffy fans to have
*something* to watch?
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for the
> Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and some Southern
> senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right to be represented."
Isn't that what sitcoms are for? :)
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
> >> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
> >> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
> >> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
> >
> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
> days, it's doing quite well.
How much of that is a reflection of the quality of the show, and how
> wrote:
>
> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
> >> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
> >> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
> >> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
> >
> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
> days, it's doing quite well.
much of it is a reflection of the needs for skiffy fans to have
*something* to watch?
> It reminds me of something in distant memory, when a nominee for the
> Supreme Court was criticised for being "unintelligent", and some Southern
> senator argued: "So what? Dumb people have a right to be represented."
Jim G.
Nov 16, 2012, 3:42:45 PM11/16/12
to
shawn sent the following on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:52:46 -0500:
known that.
> The question is how do you take this
> interesting idea and build it into something that can last for even a
> season let alone years. The idea could work well as a short story or
> even a movie of the week, but making it work for a series is an
> entirely different matter. It's also something that the network suits
> didn't seem too interested in discussing or at least they didn't press
> for answers.
If I were ever in a room like that, I'd want to know the end game (as
defined in part by the plans for the final half-dozen episodes), as well
as the *layers* of the story that would be added if and when more
episodes were ordered. And while some writers and pitchmen might be good
at planning ahead for the final resolution, history suggests that few
are very good at creating interesting and relevant layers as things play
out.
But no matter what, I would *insist* on some details about the layers to
be built for *any* serial show that I was thinking of green-lighting. No
details? Then go peddle your show elsewhere.
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G.
> <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
> >> They were really, really high.
> >
> >The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
> >reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
> >mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
> >comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> I don't have a problem with them being fascinated by the pitch. It
> does sound interesting.
But it's not the last bit original, and everyone in the room should have
> <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Ian J. Ball sent the following on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:00 -0700:
> >> They were really, really high.
> >
> >The way the network pinheads were (supposedly) fascinated by the pitch
> >reminds me of a baby and the way it can be fascinated for hours by a
> >mobile spinning overhead. The fact that a network executive is mentally
> >comparable to an infant really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>
> I don't have a problem with them being fascinated by the pitch. It
> does sound interesting.
known that.
> The question is how do you take this
> interesting idea and build it into something that can last for even a
> season let alone years. The idea could work well as a short story or
> even a movie of the week, but making it work for a series is an
> entirely different matter. It's also something that the network suits
> didn't seem too interested in discussing or at least they didn't press
> for answers.
defined in part by the plans for the final half-dozen episodes), as well
as the *layers* of the story that would be added if and when more
episodes were ordered. And while some writers and pitchmen might be good
at planning ahead for the final resolution, history suggests that few
are very good at creating interesting and relevant layers as things play
out.
But no matter what, I would *insist* on some details about the layers to
be built for *any* serial show that I was thinking of green-lighting. No
details? Then go peddle your show elsewhere.
Mason Barge
Nov 17, 2012, 2:22:07 PM11/17/12
to
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:42:45 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
anything else. You can't do a series that's the equivalent of an art
house movie, really.
The British can. But I haven't really seen it in the US.
wrote:
>Mason Barge sent the following on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:43:49 -0500:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
>> >> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
>> >> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
>> >> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
>> >
>> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
>> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
>> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>>
>> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
>> days, it's doing quite well.
>
>How much of that is a reflection of the quality of the show, and how
>much of it is a reflection of the needs for skiffy fans to have
>*something* to watch?
Well, tv is all about making money. They have very little pretension to
>Mason Barge sent the following on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:43:49 -0500:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:34:46 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >David sent the following on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:51:03 -0500:
>> >> “Look out the window here, at this crazy rat race of life in L.A.,”
>> >> Abrams said. “‘Now imagine right now that everything stopped.”
>> >> All the executives, Salke recalled, “immediately leaned in.”
>> >
>> >If this is true, then this is just sad, as there is absolutely nothing
>> >new behind the concept at that point. The executives are morons, which
>> >really shouldn't surprise me, I guess.
>>
>> All of this needs to be temepered by that fact that, for a drama these
>> days, it's doing quite well.
>
>How much of that is a reflection of the quality of the show, and how
>much of it is a reflection of the needs for skiffy fans to have
>*something* to watch?
anything else. You can't do a series that's the equivalent of an art
house movie, really.
The British can. But I haven't really seen it in the US.
David V. Loewe, Jr
Nov 18, 2012, 10:10:30 AM11/18/12
to
thing.
--
"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits
of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo
for his dishonesty."
- JJ Bonforte in RA Heinlein's Double Star
Don Bruder
Nov 18, 2012, 12:34:30 PM11/18/12
to
In article <shuha89psc6btes4l...@4ax.com>,
Apparently you weren't paying attention.
--
If the door is baroque don't be Hayden. Come around Bach and jiggle the Handel
"David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >> David
> >>
> >> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
> >> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
> >> last summer.
> >
> >*cough-Emberverse-cough*
>
> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
> thing.
Erm... It WAS mentioned - a lot - before the pilot episode even aired.
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >> David
> >>
> >> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
> >> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
> >> last summer.
> >
> >*cough-Emberverse-cough*
>
> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
> thing.
Apparently you weren't paying attention.
--
If the door is baroque don't be Hayden. Come around Bach and jiggle the Handel
Michael Bowker
Nov 18, 2012, 4:39:02 PM11/18/12
to
On 11/18/2012 9:34 AM, Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <shuha89psc6btes4l...@4ax.com>,
> "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>>>> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>>>> last summer.
>>>
>>> *cough-Emberverse-cough*
>>
>> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
>> thing.
>
> Erm... It WAS mentioned - a lot - before the pilot episode even aired.
> Apparently you weren't paying attention.
>
Yes, but since it's a really important point, it deserves to be
> In article <shuha89psc6btes4l...@4ax.com>,
> "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>>>> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>>>> last summer.
>>>
>>> *cough-Emberverse-cough*
>>
>> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
>> thing.
>
> Erm... It WAS mentioned - a lot - before the pilot episode even aired.
> Apparently you weren't paying attention.
>
mentioned over and over again.
David Loewe, Jr.
Nov 18, 2012, 6:11:47 PM11/18/12
to
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:34:30, Don Bruder <fa...@spamdump.invalid> wrote:
> "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>> >> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>> >> last summer.
>> >
>> >*cough-Emberverse-cough*
>>
>> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
>> thing.
>
>Erm... It WAS mentioned
IN THIS THREAD.
> "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:41:24, Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>> >> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>> >> last summer.
>> >
>> >*cough-Emberverse-cough*
>>
>> I was wondering when someone was going to mention the most obvious
>> thing.
>
>Erm... It WAS mentioned
>- a lot - before the pilot episode even aired.
>Apparently you weren't paying attention.
--
Series winner for the Cardinals!"
- John Francis Buck
Jim G.
Nov 19, 2012, 4:06:10 PM11/19/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:22:07 -0500:
I'm not suggesting that they should make shows of limited appeal just to
appease the skiffy fans in the audience. I'm suggesting that the skiffy
fans have to make the most of what's being offered, even if it means
settling for something as crappy as REVOLUTION. So an "it's doing well"
argument doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the originality
of the concept or the quality of the concept's implementation. At the
same time, the fact that it's lost a chunk of its original audience
*does* say a few things...
appease the skiffy fans in the audience. I'm suggesting that the skiffy
fans have to make the most of what's being offered, even if it means
settling for something as crappy as REVOLUTION. So an "it's doing well"
argument doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the originality
of the concept or the quality of the concept's implementation. At the
same time, the fact that it's lost a chunk of its original audience
*does* say a few things...
WrongWayWade
Nov 21, 2012, 2:44:21 PM11/21/12
to
sun and everything ran on electricity and failing power plants.
Spoiler:
.
.
.
.
.
They were actually stuck underground as survivors of nuclear war.
David Johnston
Nov 21, 2012, 3:19:25 PM11/21/12
to
On 11/21/2012 12:44 PM, WrongWayWade wrote:
> Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> David
>>>
>>> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>>> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>>> last summer.
>>
>> *cough-Emberverse-cough*
>
> City of Ember had nothing to do with the end of electricity.
And isn't the Emberverse.
> Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> David
>>>
>>> It started with two men sword fighting in front of a Starbucks.
>>> Writer-producer Eric Kripke dreamed up that surreal image
>>> last summer.
>>
>> *cough-Emberverse-cough*
>
> City of Ember had nothing to do with the end of electricity.
William December Starr
Nov 22, 2012, 2:06:31 AM11/22/12
to
In article <k8jd09$ilr$1...@dont-email.me>,
Linkname: The Emberverse series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emberverse_series
and
Linkname: Emberverse - Series Bibliography
URL: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?12060
if anyone both (a) doesn't already know this and (b) cares.
-- wds
URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emberverse_series
and
Linkname: Emberverse - Series Bibliography
URL: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?12060
if anyone both (a) doesn't already know this and (b) cares.
-- wds
Michael Bowker
Nov 22, 2012, 3:28:39 AM11/22/12
to
do with the 'city of ember' series. Use wikipedia it's your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emberverse
WrongWayWade
Nov 27, 2012, 3:21:08 PM11/27/12
to
was a reference to those.
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