Re: JUDGE ORDERS OBAMA TO PRODUCE BIRTH CERTIFICATE
George Grapman
> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>
Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
>
> By Jon Christian Dryer
>
> October 3, 2008
>
> NewsWithViews.com
>
> On September 29, 2008 US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick, the
> federal magistrate for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania ruled in the
> matter of Philip J. Berg vs Barack Hussein Obama, et al as the world was
> distracted by the $700 billion subprime mortgage crisis. Obama signed a
> breathe of relief as the mainstream media chose to ignore the question:
> "Can Senator Barack Hussein Obama legally seek the office of President
> of the United States?"
>
> The flap began in June when National Review's Jim Geraghty raised the
> question and asked the Obama Campaign to release a copy of his birth
> certificate in order to prove that he actually was born in the United
> States. (Reports had previously surfaced claiming that Obama's Kenyan
> grandmother, Sarah Hussein Obama, told reporters that Obama was not born
> in Hawaii, but in Kenya. She reportedly told reporters that when her
> son, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. returned to Kenya he was accompanied by a
> pregnant white wife who was close to term.)
>
> Obama's family did not take to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama well according
> to Sarah Obama because she was white. Shortly after she arrived in Kenya
> Stanley Ann decided to return to Hawaii because she did not like how
> Muslim men treated their wives in Kenya. However, because she was near
> term the airline would not let her fly until after the birth of her
> baby. Obama's grandmother said the baby was born in Kenya and that
> shortly after Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. was born, Stanley Ann returned
> to Hawaii.
>
> Purportedly, when she arrived back in Hawaii, Stanley Anne registered
> her son's live birth as an event which had just happened�in Hawaii. This
> supposition is based on the appearance, shortly after Nov. 6, 2007, of a
> Hawaiian birth certificate that was issued, as a duplicate birth
> certificate, by the State of Hawaii to a US Senator who requested it.
>
> While the Internet screamed that the birth certificate, which appeared
> on the Obama Campaign's "Fight The Smears" website and was also
> downloaded and used by far left blogger Markos Zuniga on his website,
> Daily Kos, it was not an electronic image concocted by Daily KOs as was
> hypothesized by a self-described cyvbersleuth who uses the cyber
> pseudonym Techdude. It was the real McCoy�even if it was issued as a
> political favor to a prospective Democratic presidential candidate by a
> Democrat official in Hawaii. The county clerk who issued the document,
> which purports to be a copy of an original document, was date stamped
> "Nov. 6, 2007" on the reverse side of the birth certificate in blue ink
> which bled through and is visible on the front of the electronic image.
>
> Attorney Philip J. Berg, the former head of the Montgomery County.
> Pennsylvania Democratic Party and a former member of the Democratic
> State Convention and, reportedly a Hillary Clinton supporter, wanted to
> learn the truth from the myriad of rumors that also suggested that Sen.
> Obama may also have been a citizen of Indonesia. The only consistent
> part of the story was Stanley Ann returning to Hawaii to claim he had
> been in the United States and was a US citizen. In his ruling, Judge
> Surrick noted that the "...cause came before the United States District
> Court Judge, Honorable R. Barclay Surrick on defendant Barack Hussein
> Obama and the Democratic National Committee's motion to dismiss." The
> order continued, "Having reviewed the motion and plaintiff's opposition
> to said motion and for good cause shown, it is hereby ordered that the
> motion to dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) is denied.
> It is further order of this court that the following discovery is to be
> turned over to plaintiff within three (3) days.
>
> 1. Obama's "vault" version (certified copy of his "original" long
> version) birth certificate; and 2. a certified copy of Obama's
> Certificate of Citizenship; 3. a certified copy of Obama's oath of
> allegiance."
>
> In his original filing, Berg specifically asked for those three items.
> Berg told the court that "...at the time Plaintiff's complaint was
> filed, Plaintiff was requesting protections from the court in order to
> stop Obama from being nominated by the DNC as the Democratic
> Presidential Nominee as Obama is not eligible to serve as President of
> the United States. However, Obama was nominated by the DNC...For that
> reason, Plaintiff must amend his complaint and will be amending this
> complaint to file a First Amendment complaint...."
>
> Berg argued that he felt it was the role of the Federal Election
> Commission to ensure that presidential and congressional candidates are
> eligible to hold the positions for which they were seeking, and that
> those candidates run a fair and legitimate campaign. "In vetting the
> presidential candidate," Berg argued, "the DNC and the FEC are required
> to ensure the eligibility requirements pursuant to our Constitution are
> met and the Presidential nominee, if elected, is qualified and eligible
> to serve pursuant to our United States Constitution. In order to be
> eligible to run for the Office of President of the United States, you
> must be a "natural born" citizen.
>
> "There appears to be no question that Defendant Obama's mother, Stanley
> Ann Dunham, was a US citizen. It is also undisputed, however, that his
> father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a citizen of Kenya. Obama's parents,
> according to divorce recorded, were married on or about February 2,
> 1961.
>
> "Defendant Obama claims he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. on August 4,
> 1961 and it is uncertain in which hospital he claims to have been born.
> Obama's grandmother on his father's side, his half-brother and
> half-sister all claim Obama was born not in Hawaii but in Kenya. reports
> reflect that Obama's mother traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy;
> however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii.
> at her late stage of pregnancy (which apparently are normal
> restrictions, to avoid births during flights). By these reports, Stanley
> Ann Dunham Obama gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew home
> and registered Obama's birth. There are records of a "registry of birth"
> for Obama, on or about August 8, 1961 in the public records office in
> Hawaii."
>
> Berg's investigators revealed that Obama's own half-sister Maya
> Soetoro�with whom he was raised�seemed not to know where her own brother
> was born. In the Nov., 2004 interview by the Rainbow Newsletter Maya
> Soetoro said Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in
> Honolulu, Hawaii. In February, 2008 Maya was interviewed by the Star
> Bulletin. This time she told reporters that Obama was born on August 4,
> 1961 at the Kaliolani Medical Center for Women and Children. On June 9,
> 2008 Wayne Madsen, a journalist with Online Journal published an article
> in which he said a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya and located a
> Certificate registering the live birth of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to
> his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a US citizen.
>
> Berg's argument to the court was that under the US Nationality Act of
> 1940, Section 317 (b), a minor child follows the naturalization and
> citizenship status of his or her custodial parent. In Obama's case, Berg
> argued, a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status
> of his or her custodial father. Obama's Indonesian stepfather, Lolo
> Soetora signed a statement acknowledging Obama as his son, giving Obama
> natural Indonesian citizenship, which explains the name "Barry Soetoro"
> and his citizenship listed as Indonesian. Loss of US citizenship, under
> US law in effect in 1967 required that foreign citizenship be achieved
> through "application." Which, according to Berg, is precisely what
> happened to Obama when his mother married Soetoro and the family moved
> to Indonesia.
>
> When Obama and his mother moved to Indonesia, Obama had already been
> enrolled in school�something that could not have happened under
> Indonesian law if Soetoro had not signed an acknowledgment (the
> application) affirming that Obama was his son, it deemed his son to an
> Indonesian State citizen. (Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No.
> 9 of 1992 dated 31 mar. 1992, Indonesia Civil Code): "...State children
> of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal
> marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by
> father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that
> acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or
> prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution, 1945."
> Furthermore, under Indonesian law, if a resident Indonesian citizen
> married a foreigner�in this case, Lolo Soetoro marrying Stanley Ann
> Obama�she was required to renounce her US citizenship.
>
> In his lawsuit, Berg demanded a copy of Obama's Certificate of
> Citizenship, a document Obama must have applied for to regain his
> citizenship�which was lost in Indonesia. He will have that document only
> if the proper paperwork was filed with the US State Department when
> Obama returned to Hawaii in 1971 since that is the only way Obama could
> regain his US "natural born" status. Berg is convinced that Obama was
> never naturalized in the United States after his return. Obama returned
> to his maternal grandparents in Hawaii without his mother. Since she is
> the only one who could have filed for the reinstatement of his
> citizenship, it is unlikely it ever happened. If it did, his Certificate
> of Citizenship would affirm his right to seek the office of President.
> Without it, Barack Obama is just another resident alien who can't
> legally hold his seat in the US Senate.
>
>
>
>
>
Sal Video
"Hans Der Veiner" <han...@derveiner.de> wrote in message
news:Xns9B2C6016...@62.141.42.83...
> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
> her son's live birth as an event which had just happened-in Hawaii. This
> supposition is based on the appearance, shortly after Nov. 6, 2007, of a
> Hawaiian birth certificate that was issued, as a duplicate birth
> certificate, by the State of Hawaii to a US Senator who requested it.
>
> While the Internet screamed that the birth certificate, which appeared
> on the Obama Campaign's "Fight The Smears" website and was also
> downloaded and used by far left blogger Markos Zuniga on his website,
> Daily Kos, it was not an electronic image concocted by Daily KOs as was
> hypothesized by a self-described cyvbersleuth who uses the cyber
> pseudonym Techdude. It was the real McCoy-even if it was issued as a
> Soetoro-with whom he was raised-seemed not to know where her own brother
> was born. In the Nov., 2004 interview by the Rainbow Newsletter Maya
> Soetoro said Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in
> Honolulu, Hawaii. In February, 2008 Maya was interviewed by the Star
> Bulletin. This time she told reporters that Obama was born on August 4,
> 1961 at the Kaliolani Medical Center for Women and Children. On June 9,
> 2008 Wayne Madsen, a journalist with Online Journal published an article
> in which he said a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya and located a
> Certificate registering the live birth of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to
> his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a US citizen.
>
> Berg's argument to the court was that under the US Nationality Act of
> 1940, Section 317 (b), a minor child follows the naturalization and
> citizenship status of his or her custodial parent. In Obama's case, Berg
> argued, a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status
> of his or her custodial father. Obama's Indonesian stepfather, Lolo
> Soetora signed a statement acknowledging Obama as his son, giving Obama
> natural Indonesian citizenship, which explains the name "Barry Soetoro"
> and his citizenship listed as Indonesian. Loss of US citizenship, under
> US law in effect in 1967 required that foreign citizenship be achieved
> through "application." Which, according to Berg, is precisely what
> happened to Obama when his mother married Soetoro and the family moved
> to Indonesia.
>
> When Obama and his mother moved to Indonesia, Obama had already been
> enrolled in school-something that could not have happened under
> Indonesian law if Soetoro had not signed an acknowledgment (the
> application) affirming that Obama was his son, it deemed his son to an
> Indonesian State citizen. (Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No.
> 9 of 1992 dated 31 mar. 1992, Indonesia Civil Code): "...State children
> of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal
> marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by
> father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that
> acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or
> prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution, 1945."
> Furthermore, under Indonesian law, if a resident Indonesian citizen
> married a foreigner-in this case, Lolo Soetoro marrying Stanley Ann
> Obama-she was required to renounce her US citizenship.
>
> In his lawsuit, Berg demanded a copy of Obama's Certificate of
> Citizenship, a document Obama must have applied for to regain his
> citizenship-which was lost in Indonesia. He will have that document only
George Grapman
> cuckooo cuckoo
"I saw it on the internet so it must be true"
Dano
"Hans Der Veiner" <han...@derveiner.de> wrote in message
news:Xns9B2C6016...@62.141.42.83...
> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>
>
> By Jon Christian Dryer
>
> October 3, 2008
>
> NewsWithViews.com
>
> On September 29, 2008 US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick, the
> federal magistrate for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania ruled in the
> matter of Philip J. Berg vs Barack Hussein Obama, et al as the world was
> distracted by the $700 billion subprime mortgage crisis. Obama signed a
> breathe of relief as the mainstream media chose to ignore the question:
> "Can Senator Barack Hussein Obama legally seek the office of President
> of the United States?"
>
How would such a "distraction" matter? If there is any validity to this
claim then Obama will have to be replaced on the ballot. Come back when
that happens. Word of advice...don't bet your double wide that will happen.
concentration
> cuckooo cuckoo
>
Monday, September 29, 2008
Obama's Kenyan Citizenship Expired
Now this is an interesting tidbit, given the longstanding questions and
controversy over Barack Obama's citizenship.
While Barack Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii in 1961, given that his
father was Kenyan, and that Kenya was part of the British Empire at that
time, and Obama also spent a lot of time in various overseas countries
during his youth, there have been a lot of questions about Obama's real
citizenship.
It hasn't helped that the Obama campaign has been very tight-lipped over
the while thing, and even when a copy of Obama's birth certificate was
finally released a few months ago, there were many questions about it's
authenticity because it doesn't look like the typical birth certificate
of that period, and lacks some of the features one might expect on an
official document.
Still, it has come to be accepted by most as genuine.
Now Newsbusters points out an interesting admission on Obama's
question-fighting website called "Fight the Smears."
Along with a picture of the aforementioned birth certificate, this
particular web page on Fight the Smears lists a couple of "mainstream"
media sources (as if they had any special credibility anymore) which
make definitive pronouncements that Barack Obama is indeed an American
citizen.
What is interesting is that the citation from FactCheck.org says Obama
once also had Kenyan citizenship:
�When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a
British colony, still part of the United Kingdom�s dwindling empire. As
a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose
citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948.
That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.�s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an
oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically
expired on Aug. 4,1982.�
Here is a screen print of the citation on Fight the Smears (in case it
mysteriously "disappears"):
Now, there's nothing particularly shocking in this, in and of itself.
After all, the main issue is the American citizenship required by the
U.S. Constitution for a U.S. president, and there remains no significant
questioning that Obama does indeed meet this qualification.
Also, there are many Americans who have and have had dual citizenship; I
knew quite a few when I was in the military. So again, there is nothing
remarkable about that.
What is remarkable in this case is the tremendous amout of reticence and
hostility the Obama camp has shown toward this entire issue, when
questions about Obama's citizenship--given his father's foreign origin
and his overseas travels as a youth--have been valid concerns.
Also, while not an obstacle to service as president, the fact that we
could have a U.S. president who has held dual citizenship with another
country is, at the very least, interesting and noteworthy.
Obama hasn't done himself any favors playing the bunker mentality for
the past year or two, and this revelation may throw more kindling back
on the fires of those who have doubts about him.
One also has to wonder, given that the "mainstream" media has totally
thrown any pretense of objectivity out the window long ago during this
election, what the reaction might be if such a fact came out about John
McCain or Sarah Palin.
Would we hear the same crickets we now hear about Barack Obama, or would
it be a chorus of howling timber wolves, as we have heard over
earth-shattering revelations such as a 20+-year old DUI by Todd Palin or
a pregnant daughter?
I think the answer is pretty obvious.
concentration
> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>
> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
> judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html
>
>>
concentration
> Sal Video wrote:
>> cuckooo cuckoo
>
> "I saw it on the internet so it must be true"
>>
>>
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html
George Grapman
> On 03 Oct 2008, George Grapman <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> posted some
> news:d%rFk.2255$ZP4....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:
>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>>
>> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
>> judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
>
The first link does not work. The second simply says a motion was
filed. Your link lied and said the judge had issued an order.
>
> http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
> courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/13/
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5yljet
George Grapman
> George Grapman wrote:
>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>>
>> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
>> judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
website making a claim is quite different from a judge issuing an
order,something the link from the original poster claims.
George Grapman
> Sal Video wrote:
>> cuckooo cuckoo
>>
How does citizenship expire? Who are those "most? that the web site
claims have accepted this a genuine?
George Grapman
> George Grapman wrote:
>> Sal Video wrote:
>>> cuckooo cuckoo
>>
>> "I saw it on the internet so it must be true"
>>>
>>>
>
> http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html
Posting the same spurious site over and over again does not prove
anything other than your apparent inability to communicate in your own
words.
George Grapman
A poster who thinks a magistrate and a federal judge are the same
posting a link claiming that a court had ordered Obama to produce a
birth certificate when,in fact, a judge had denied the request.
Another poster with a link to newsbusters that says his citizenship
had "expired" and saying "most" people think the claim is genuine. The
same poster then wonders if I understand English and as "proof"posts a
link to the court the only shows that suit had been filed. Asked to
explain this the poster can only reply with the newsbusters story over
and over.
House of Pancakes
Too bad, ain't it? hahaahahahaha.
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>>>
>>> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
>>> judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
>
> website making a claim
Grapey licking his nuts...
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> Sal Video wrote:
>>> cuckooo cuckoo
>>>
>> http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html\\\
>>
>
> How does citizenship expire?
Read the article, then email the kenyan embassy, sour grapey!
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> Sal Video wrote:
>>>> cuckooo cuckoo
>>>
>>> "I saw it on the internet so it must be true"
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html
>
>
> Posting the same spurious site
Tain't suprious, sour grapey.
concentration
> So far we have:
Sour Grapey the SF twink off on another denial rant...
David Johnston
<sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>> On 03 Oct 2008, George Grapman <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> posted some
>> news:d%rFk.2255$ZP4....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>
>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>>>
>>> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a federal
>>> judge and a magistrate are to separate and different positions.
>>
>> Can't read dates? English maybe not your first language?
>
> The first link does not work. The second simply says a motion was
>filed. Your link lied and said the judge had issued an order.
Linewrapping broke the link in half but once pasted together it does
say that the judge granted the discovery motion. I
George Grapman
I wonder why the poster used a this party link rather than the actual
court.
KalElFan
"David Johnston" <da...@block.net> wrote in message
news:qsuce4l9a2ia4r56j...@4ax.com...
> Linewrapping broke the link in half but once pasted together it does
> say that the judge granted the discovery motion.
Okay, that's the way I read it as I was about to go check. So that
effectively would amount to an order to produce not just the birth
certificate but the other two things:
>>>> It is further order of this court that the following discovery is to be
>>>> turned over to plaintiff within three (3) days.
>>>> 1. Obama's "vault" version (certified copy of his "original" long
>>>> version) birth certificate; and 2. a certified copy of Obama's
>>>> Certificate of Citizenship; 3. a certified copy of Obama's oath of
>>>> allegiance."
>>>> In his original filing, Berg specifically asked for those three items.
Now a cut and paste from earlier posts to get to the gist of it...
>>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>> http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/09/obamas-kenyan-citizenship-expired.html
>>
>> ... even when a copy of Obama's birth certificate was
>> finally released a few months ago, there were many questions about [its]
>> authenticity because it doesn't look like the typical birth certificate
>> of that period, and lacks some of the features one might expect on an
>> official document...
>>
>> ... the citation from FactCheck.org says Obama
>> once also had Kenyan citizenship: ...
>
>> Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an
>> oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired
>> on Aug. 4,1982." ...
So they're saying, based on FactCheck.org, that the "best" case scenario
for Obama is that he had dual Kenyan citizenship until he let it expire at
age 21. Since everyone knows his father was Kenyan, I don't see that
as having any impact. He had no control at all over any of that.
>>>> Attorney Philip J. Berg, the former head of the Montgomery County.
>>>> Pennsylvania Democratic Party and a former member of the Democratic
>>>> State Convention and, reportedly a Hillary Clinton supporter, wanted to
>>>> learn the truth from the myriad of rumors that also suggested that Sen.
>>>> Obama may also have been a citizen of Indonesia.....
>>>>
>>>> "... Obama claims he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. on August 4,
>>>> 1961 and it is uncertain in which hospital he claims to have been
>>>> born....
>>>>
>>>> Berg's investigators revealed that Obama's own half-sister Maya
>>>> Soetoro-with whom he was raised-seemed not to know where
>>>> her own brother was born. In the Nov., 2004 interview by the
>>>> Rainbow Newsletter Maya Soetoro said Obama was born on
>>>> Aug. 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. In
>>>> February, 2008 Maya was interviewed by the Star Bulletin. This
>>>> time she told reporters that Obama was born on August 4, 1961
>>>> at the Kaliolani Medical Center for Women and Children. On June 9,
>>>> 2008 Wayne Madsen, a journalist with Online Journal published an
>>>> article in which he said a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya
>>>> and located a Certificate registering the live birth of Barack Hussein
>>>> Obama, Jr. to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a US
>>>> citizen....
>>>>
>>>> Berg's argument to the court was that under the US Nationality Act of
>>>> 1940, Section 317 (b), a minor child follows the naturalization and
>>>> citizenship status of his or her custodial parent. In Obama's case,
>>>> Berg argued, a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship
>>>> status of his or her custodial father. Obama's Indonesian stepfather,
>>>> Lolo Soetora signed a statement acknowledging Obama as his son,
>>>> giving Obama natural Indonesian citizenship, which explains the name
>>>> "Barry Soetoro" and his citizenship listed as Indonesian. Loss of US
>>>> citizenship, under US law in effect in 1967 required that foreign
>>>> citizenship be achieved through "application." Which, according to
>>>> Berg, is precisely what happened to Obama when his mother married
>>>> Soetoro and the family moved to Indonesia.
>>>>
>>>> In his lawsuit, Berg demanded a copy of Obama's Certificate of
>>>> Citizenship, a document Obama must have applied for to regain his
>>>> citizenship-which was lost in Indonesia. He will have that document
>>>> only if the proper paperwork was filed with the US State Department
>>>> when Obama returned to Hawaii in 1971 since that is the only way
>>>> Obama could regain his US "natural born" status. Berg is convinced
>>>> that Obama was never naturalized in the United States after his return.
>>>> Obama returned to his maternal grandparents in Hawaii without his
>>>> mother. Since she is the only one who could have filed for the
>>>> reinstatement of his citizenship, it is unlikely it ever happened. If
>>>> it did, his Certificate of Citizenship would affirm his right to seek
>>>> the office of President. Without it, Barack Obama is just another
>>>> resident alien who can't legally hold his seat in the US Senate.
So this argument really doesn't have anything to do with the birth
certificate per se, and whether or not the copy released has legitimate
questions that surround it. Even assuming the birth certificate is entirely
legit and not something generated after his mother gave birth to him in
Kenya, Berg still argues there's a problem because...
Obama later became a naturalized Indonesian citizen through application
of his step father at the time, and that that means he had to have his U.S.
citizenship restored (when Obama was about 10 years old), through an
application from his mother that Berg says was never filed.
Assuming there's anything to that argument, might the worst case
scenario be that he could still formally file the application now, on the
basis that it was a technicality that he simply was never aware of? That
would still be pretty fatal to his candidacy I think, so I guess the key
issue here is whether Berg's argument has legal merit. The mention
of him as "Attorney Philip J. Berg, the former head of the Montgomery
County Pennsylvania Democratic Party and a former member of the
Democratic State Convention and, reportedly a Hillary Clinton
supporter" also removes the Republican Dirty Tricks argument, so
I'm wondering how the mainstream media gets away with not picking
up this story at this point. If his specific argument hasn't been ruled
on anywhere previously and it's reached the stage where discovery
has been ordered, then conceivably there will be rulings and appeals
on this all the way up the line to the Supreme Court perhaps, if
Obama can't produce that Certificate of Citizenship.
There was a similar issue surrounding McCain being born in the
Panama Canal Zone, but that one was settled by a Supreme Court
ruling years ago in another case that clearly applies. There would
have to be cases similar to Obama's that went up to the Supreme
Court, or perhaps an appellate court ruling upholding citizenship that
SCOTUS declined to hear an appeal on.
concentration
Are you ever going to admit he was right and you were wrong Grapey?
No, I thought not...
George Grapman
W Who is "grapey"? Oh , I get it you are flaunting you immaturity.
Are ever going to post a link from the court web site. Armed with
the name of the case and docket number this should be a simple task?
George Grapman
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:35:23 -0700, George Grapman
>>>> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>>>> On 03 Oct 2008, George Grapman <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> posted some
>>>>>> news:d%rFk.2255$ZP4....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>>>>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually Surrick denied the motion on 8/21/ By the way a
>>>>>>> federal judge and a magistrate are to separate and different
>>>>>>> positions.
>>>>>> Can't read dates? English maybe not your first language?
>>>>> The first link does not work. The second simply says a motion
>>>>> was filed. Your link lied and said the judge had issued an order.
>>>>
>>>> Linewrapping broke the link in half but once pasted together it does
>>>> say that the judge granted the discovery motion. I
>>>
>>> I wonder why the poster used a this party link rather than the
>>> actual court.
>>
>>
>> Are you ever going to admit he was right and you were wrong Grapey?
>>
>> No, I thought not...
> ]
> W Who is "grapey"?
Yer stupid.
concentration
> Any reason that Fox news and the Washington Times are ignoring this?
Yes.
George Grapman
And that reason is.............?
George Grapman
Another erudite reply. Your style and syntax seem somewhat familiar,m'aam.
concentration
See how you get what you earn!
concentration
It ain't time yet.
George Grapman
So is this is true it mean the Republican Department of Justice i
guilty of malfeasance for either not pursuing the case or delaying it
for political reasons.
George Grapman
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> concentration wrote:
>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>> Any reason that Fox news and the Washington Times are ignoring this?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> And that reason is.............?
>>
>> It ain't time yet.
>
> So is this is true it mean the Republican Department of Justice i
> guilty of
OK grapey, put away the crack pipe....
concentration
George Grapman
Thanks for another well thought out reply. Are you aware that
prosecutors have a legal obligation to pursue cases in a timely manner
and not let politics dictate the process. So tell us again why the
Justice Department is not doing anything. Oh,right, you never told us
the first time.
David Johnston
<sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
What's the website for the actual court?
Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired)
Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
KalElFan
> What's the website for the actual court?
Nothing on that site but the Washington Times reports the origin
of the story at the end of August:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/28/lawsuit-questions-obamas-eligibility-for-office/
So it's apparently the PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) Hillary
supporters who initiated this and hired Berg, who's described
as a former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania.
Since then it's basically been procedural delays, but if it's true the
discovery order was given requiring production of those three
documents, within three days, then that was yesterday or earlier
if the article dates in the posts upthread are correct.
The Washington Times article also refers to McCain's issue and
has a comment about there being no precedent for testing that
for any presidential candidate. But again I recall reading about
this and there is a Supreme Court case that establishes very
clearly that McCain is a U.S. citizen. It had to do with children
or American parents stationed overseas (military, diplomats, etc.)
That's not the case with these Obama allegations.
But now here's a site that says there has been no ruling as of
almost 48 hours ago:
So that may be a reason why FOX hasn't picked it up yet.
concentration
> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>
> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>
>
IP address country: United States
IP address state: Kansas
IP address city: Wichita
IP address latitude: 37.691002
IP address longitude: -97.329201
ISP of this IP : SBC Internet Services
Organization: SBC Internet Services
Host of this IP: ppp-70-130-46-78.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> concentration wrote:
>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>> concentration wrote:
>>>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>>>> Any reason that Fox news and the Washington Times are ignoring
>>>>>>> this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that reason is.............?
>>>>
>>>> It ain't time yet.
>>>
>>> So is this is true it mean the Republican Department of Justice i
>>> guilty of
>>
>> OK grapey, put away the crack pipe....
>
> Thanks for another well thought out reply.
Thanks for getting your grammatical module fixed.
George Grapman
And nothing backs up the claim that the court had issued an order
for Obama to produce his birth certificate.
George Grapman
What happened,spamantha, did you lose another account?
I thought those posts came from spamantha or a spamantha wannabee
and then realized that no one want to be spamantha.
For those unfamiliar with the child she is a full time troll who
seems to get aroused by posting IP addresses and who slavishly defends
her mast,CV.
George Grapman
Hi, spammy,bye,spammy.
KalElFan
news:KtAFk.2359$D32...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
As of 48 hours ago. There is enough evidence to back up that Obama
made a motion for dismissal and Berg responded.
The thing about this one is that it immediately catches your eye, yet
it's the first I've heard of it and that's mystifying because I follow this
stuff a fair bit. I knew Obama had the Kenyan father who left, and
then the Indonesian stepfather and he lived there for a while using
his stepfather's surname. I knew there was some school or similar
document that listed him as Muslim (and that Indonesia has the
largest Muslim population in the world, so that's not unusual). I
knew, or at least thought it was not in dispute, that he was born
in Hawaii and then returned there as still a boy, and was raised
by his grandparents (or at least grandmother, who he'd talked
about and is still alive but not well enough to travel). I'd read
(or seen in a report) that he had a half brother in Kenya who was
supposedly living in poverty.
I haven't seen any of the Barack Obama biographies or read his
book, nor did I see the "Obama Chronicles" that O'Reilly did in
installments on FOX. I typically skipped over that or switched
channels during that, because I'd already picked up all the other
stuff mentioned in this paragraph and probably a lot more. I also
remember at least one and maybe a couple of mainstream media
articles on McCain's situation -- being born in the Panama Canal
Zone (his father and grandfather were Admirals).
But this issue of Obama's citizenship being questioned I find rather
astounding. One would think this would have been definitively
proven and forever not in dispute long before now. I know what
hospital I was born in, and it's the same one my sister was born
in. Surely Obama must know and there must be a record of that
that isn't just some re-issued attestation of some sort. Likewise
confirmation of whether there are Kenyan records suggesting he
was born there, and confirmation of the three(?) family members
there saying he was born in Kenya. Same with the sister giving
the two different hospital names. The press was sending their
legions up to Wasilla to dig up the most obscure dirt on Palin,
the New York Times running four front page stories a day. I
suspect Kenya is almost as close to their offices as Alaska is,
and this gets to his very eligibility to be President. It seems to
me it needs to be proven beyond any doubt, not stonewalled.
KalElFan
news:6ko5ahF...@mid.individual.net...
> But this issue of Obama's citizenship being questioned I find rather
> astounding. One would think this would have been definitively
> proven and forever not in dispute long before now. I know what
> hospital I was born in, and it's the same one my sister was born
> in. Surely Obama must know and there must be a record of that
> that isn't just some re-issued attestation of some sort. Likewise
> confirmation of whether there are Kenyan records suggesting he
> was born there, and confirmation of the three(?) family members
> there saying he was born in Kenya. Same with the sister giving
> the two different hospital names. The press was sending their
> legions up to Wasilla to dig up the most obscure dirt on Palin,
> the New York Times running four front page stories a day. I
> suspect Kenya is almost as close to their offices as Alaska is,
> and this gets to his very eligibility to be President. It seems to
> me it needs to be proven beyond any doubt, not stonewalled.
Okay, so the distance is more than double (3,360 vs 7,364 miles,
so almost 4,000 miles different :-)) The Times could have sent
half the crew there.
concentration
> concentration wrote:
>> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>
>>> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>>>
>> IP address : 70.130.46.78
>> IP address country: United States
>> IP address state: Kansas
>> IP address city: Wichita
>> IP address latitude: 37.691002
>> IP address longitude: -97.329201
>> ISP of this IP : SBC Internet Services
>> Organization: SBC Internet Services
>> Host of this IP: ppp-70-130-46-78.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net
>
>
> What happened,spamantha, did you lose another account?
Hey grapey, did you lose another argument?
concentration
Hi grapey, die grapey.
Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork
laughing at the antics of concentration, when they suddenly burst out in
tears:
No, you just keep snipping everything which doesn't support you, or
rather, which actively supports the opposing view. You must be a
wingnut.
--
________________________________________________________________________
PorscheMonkey4Life COOSN-029-06-71069; Lits Slut #16
Butcher Knife Natalia; Gutter Chix0r #17; AUK Psycho & Felon #21
BowTie's Spuriously Accused Pedo Photographer #4; Parrot & Zombie #2
Usenet Ruiner #5; Top Asshole #3; Official Chung Demon
Most Hated Usenetizen of All Time #13; Anonymous Psycho Criminal #18
Jader Addict
No holy posting of any kind, to email.
"It can't rain all the time"
"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."
Robert Heinlein
Homeland Security: Most Successful Bureaucracy Ever.
"Everything Burnore has posted in the last ten years just screams of his
obsession with me. The old fart is clearly still smarting from the
various whoopings I've given him." -- No, Tim Thorne doesn't have an ego
problem. Of course not. What would make you think otherwise? Message-ID:
<7eek94hfjvd7mvurs...@4ax.com>
"A vote for Obama is a vote for this simpleton." -- Frank the Gray Ghost
is being unnecessarily hard on himself, IMO. Message-ID:
<Xns9ACABD05541E2We...@216.196.97.142>
"How can you possibly have an international agreement that's effective
unless countries like China and India are not full participants?" --
George W. Bush, Camp David, April 19, 2008
"this brain stem cannot leave well enough alone." -- Lady Veteran has
been demonstrating this truth for many years. Her honesty is refreshing.
Message-ID: <e62224t05er85vvpe...@4ax.com>
"FAILED BULLSHITBOYS WHOSE CANDY HAS NO RED ON IT! YOU KNOW IT TO BE
TRUE! I LICKED THE RED OFF YOUR CANDY BECAUSE YOU ARE YOUR ILK HAVEN'T
GOT ANY FURY!" -- Gibbered by Johnny in Message-ID:
<qiA3k.2556$Xe....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Not supporting me is equivalent to forfeiting your own rights." --
John D. Wentzky: Warrior For Your Freedumb! Message-ID:
<33km2419sg6fnq3sh...@4ax.com>
"I know how you special busboys are.
You're crazy." -- John "special busboy" Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<HMb3k.2413$bh5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
http://www.runescape.com/
Join my RuneScape clan!
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Holy_Pretzel_Cabal/index.php
Full name of clan: Cabal of the Holy International Discordian Internet
And Usenet Terrorist Pretzel
Xander: "I still don't get why we had to come here to get info about a
killer snot monster."
Giles: "Because it's a killer snot monster from outer space. (pause) I
did not say that." -- "Listening to Fear" (87/509), Buffy the Vampire
Slayer
"Actually, I quit. Nobody takes my frock." -- Captain Jack, "The Doctor
Dances" (27.10), Doctor Who
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle
Trainer of PorchMonkey4Life
http://www.screedbomb.info/porchie/
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/PorchMonkey4Life
The MonkeyLJ: http://porchmonkey.livejournal.com/ -- nuked!
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2008
Hammer of Thor, July 2008
8. OK, so who's this "Dev McKinHole", then?
I dunno, some guy named Devon McKinnon of Dawson Creek, allegedly, and
according to the Monkey, a pedophile. However, I wouldn't take that too
seriously. The Monkey keeps changing his mind about who I am, so there's
no reason to think he won't change it about Mr. McKinnon, too.
"I am mentally stable, fool...I am going to be a bishop's wife." -- Sure
you are, Olympiada. MID: <45e21b75$0$16373$8826...@free.teranews.com>
"yes you are definitely retarded. See a neurologist immediate. And if
you don't have monet, blow a neurologist immediately." -- Farky the
Monkey-man to peachy ashie passion. No, no trace of irony in his post.
MID: <4h6xh.802$hH2.233@trnddc02>
"I was told there would be cookies."
Cross-Poasters For Goddess!
Remember: Straight people can't help it!
A petition to make the Five-Fingered Hand of Eris
the official symbol for the planet Eris:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ffhoeris/
"If you don't have pedicures AT LEAST every two weeks, don't talk to me.
If you don't floss every night and morning and brush at least twice a
day, don't talk to me. If you don't spend money on you hair and get
great cuts and color, don't talk to me. If you are heavy, don't talk to
me. If you don't shower every morning and take a nice bubble bath every
night, don't talk to me. If you don't have a loved one in your arms,
don't talk to me. If you don't keep an immaculate house, don't talk to
me. If you don't work, don't talk to me." -- Clearly, Martha Vandella
never wants to talk to me, which is for the best, really.
MID: <1161934857....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"You're fighting a Furry Giant
"He delivers a long speech about how you shouldn't judge him just because
he's an animal deep down inside and you're all intolerant and dressing up
like an animal in easy-access furry pants doesn't make you a pervert...
you fall asleep halfway through." -- The Kingdom of Loathing
Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork
laughing at the antics of Hans Der Veiner, when they suddenly burst out in
tears:
> On 03 Oct 2008, George Grapman posted some news:
>
>> So far we have:
>>
>> A poster who thinks a magistrate and a federal judge are the same
>> posting a link claiming that a court had ordered Obama to produce a
>> birth certificate when,in fact, a judge had denied the request.
>>
>> Another poster with a link to newsbusters that says his citizenship
>> had "expired" and saying "most" people think the claim is genuine. The
>> same poster then wonders if I understand English and as "proof"posts a
>> link to the court the only shows that suit had been filed. Asked to
>> explain this the poster can only reply with the newsbusters story over
>> and over.
>>
>>
> http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
> courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/13/
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5yljet
>
> I'll type slowly for you so maybe it will sink in past your denial this
> time.
>
> Read the court document at the link provided for you below, since you
> appear to be sufficiently mentally challenged to find it on your own.
>
>
> http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/
> 2:2008cv04083/281573/13/0.pdf
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4846kf
>
> The judge DENIED the motion to dismiss and ordered Obama to produce etc...
>
> If you can't figure it out from here, with the links provided, there is no
> possible hope for you.
Since Barack Obama has not been denied the right to campaign for the
Office of POTUS, however, it may fairly be reckoned that he has produced
his birth certificate, and has been found to be a legitimate US citizen.
Right now, it is past all deadlines, and he's still in the race. Sorry,
but the McCain campaign is doomed. Hell, isn't it?
Gunner Asch
There is no law stating that speed is a requirement.
Im sure Justice is "investigating" and as such, is not required to
seek an indictment or presentation before a grand jury, or a Finding.
But hey...if this is making you uncomfortable....good.
"Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich
Gunner Asch
<sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
rand mair fheal
> >
> > If you can't figure it out from here, with the links provided, there is no
> > possible hope for you.
doesnt really when anything
the court was asked to settle a question
it believes it has the authority to answer
it needs facts to decide its answer
so it is in the process of discovering relevant facts
> Since Barack Obama has not been denied the right to campaign for the
> Office of POTUS, however, it may fairly be reckoned that he has produced
> his birth certificate, and has been found to be a legitimate US citizen.
there is no court of presidential qualifications
there are requirements but no explicit mechanism to verify them
if the matter was ever disputed
it would probably be left to congress
as part of its role as judge of elections in early january
> Right now, it is past all deadlines, and he's still in the race. Sorry,
> but the McCain campaign is doomed. Hell, isn't it?
they are actually campaigning for a slate of electors in each state
the electors vote in december or january (whatever)
and it is they who elect the president
they are pledged to a candidate but they can actually vote for anyone
then the new congress meets in early january to accept that result
or to elect the president themselves if necessary
all this is completed by 20 january and the inauguration
arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
KalElFan
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote in message
news:6ko5ahF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:KtAFk.2359$D32...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
>> KalElFan wrote:
>>
>>> "David Johnston" <da...@block.net> wrote in message
>>> news:safde410j4vhgrvi9...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> What's the website for the actual court?
>>>
>>> http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/
>>>
>>> Nothing on that site but the Washington Times reports the origin
>>> of the story at the end of August:
>>>
>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/28/lawsuit-questions-obamas-eligibility-for-office/
>>>
>>> So it's apparently the PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) Hillary
>>> supporters who initiated this and hired Berg, who's described
>>> as a former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania.
>>>
>>> Since then it's basically been procedural delays, but if it's true the
>>> discovery order was given requiring production of those three
>>> documents, within three days, then that was yesterday or earlier
>>> if the article dates in the posts upthread are correct.
>>>
>>> The Washington Times article also refers to McCain's issue and
>>> has a comment about there being no precedent for testing that
>>> for any presidential candidate. But again I recall reading about
>>> this and there is a Supreme Court case that establishes very
>>> clearly that McCain is a U.S. citizen. It had to do with children
>>> [of] American parents stationed overseas (military, diplomats, etc.)
>>> That's not the case with these Obama allegations.
>>>
>>> But now here's a site that says there has been no ruling as of
>>> almost 48 hours ago:
>>>
>>> http://www.obamacrimes.com/
That site is apparently actually run by the Plaintiff Mr. Berg, the
former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and seems to
be specifically dedicated to this case. The sub-title of the site is
"Is Obama a Natural Born Citizen?" and one part of the main
page from a few days ago says they've received more than 17
million hits.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/obamacrimes.com
>>> So that may be a reason why FOX hasn't picked it up yet.
>>
>>
>> And nothing backs up the claim that the court had issued an order
>> for Obama to produce his birth certificate.
>
> As of 48 hours ago. There is enough evidence to back up that Obama
> made a motion for dismissal and Berg responded.
I'll add that the dismissal motion goes back to September 15 and Berg
made the counter-filing to that on September 29. So my guess is it'll be
another week perhaps before the ruling comes back. All the documents
are linked to from the main page and I haven't read them beyond the
excerpts posted upthread, but apparently one of the bases of Obama's
motion for dismissal is that Berg doesn't have standing. Couple of things
about that, just conceptually. First, I'd be surprised if a judge said that
a U.S. Citizen wouldn't have standing in challenging the qualifications of
a Presidential nominee. I understand that it's technically electors from
each state who cast the vote, but still I think a judge would be inclined
to allow the case to proceed especially here. Second, it just looks bad,
once details like this get out into a wider sphere, that Obama is trying
to stonewall rather than just adopt a nothing at all to hide, 100%
complete disclosure policy that ought to be able to settle the matter.
> The thing about this one is that it immediately catches your eye, yet
> it's the first I've heard of it and that's mystifying because I follow
> this stuff a fair bit. I knew Obama had the Kenyan father... and
> then the Indonesian stepfather and he lived there for a while using
> his stepfather's surname. I knew there was some school or similar
> document that listed him as Muslim (and that Indonesia has the
> largest Muslim population in the world, so that's not unusual). I
> knew, or at least thought it was not in dispute, that he was born
> in Hawaii and then returned there as still a boy, and was raised
> by his grandparents (or at least grandmother, who he'd talked
> about and is still alive but not well enough to travel). I'd read
> (or seen in a report) that he had a half brother in Kenya who was
> supposedly living in poverty.
>
> I haven't seen any of the Barack Obama biographies or read his
> book, nor did I see the "Obama Chronicles" that O'Reilly did in
> installments on FOX. I typically skipped over that or switched
> channels during [it], because I'd already picked up all the other
> stuff mentioned [above] and probably a lot more. I also
> remember at least one and maybe a couple of mainstream media
> articles on McCain's situation -- being born in the Panama Canal
> Zone (his father and grandfather were Admirals).
>
> But this issue of Obama's citizenship being questioned I find rather
> astounding. One would think this would have been definitively
> proven and forever not in dispute long before now. I know what
> hospital I was born in, and it's the same one my sister was born
> in. Surely Obama must know and there must be a record of that
> that isn't just some re-issued attestation of some sort. Likewise
> confirmation of whether there are Kenyan records suggesting he
> was born there, and confirmation of the three(?) family members
> there saying he was born in Kenya. Same with the sister giving
> the two different hospital names. The press was sending their
> legions up to Wasilla to dig up the most obscure dirt on Palin,
> the New York Times running four front page stories a day. I
> suspect Kenya is almost as close to their offices as Alaska is
> and this gets to his very eligibility to be President. It seems to
> me it needs to be proven beyond any doubt, not stonewalled.
As I mentioned in a followup, Kenya's actually more than twice as
far away from New York as Alaska is, 4,001 miles further away
according to one source. But I mentioned/joked that the Times
[or any of the liberal mainstream media] could send half the crew
they did to Wasilla to try to dig up dirt on a VP candidate. Here
it's the highest-stakes issue of literal qualifications to be president,
and the Plaintiff a former deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania
with a plausible case initiated by the PUMA Hillary supporters.
Consider as well that this was 1961, and that a few years later
Obama's mother moved Barack to Indonesia with the new man
she'd married (who was Obama's stepfather). So obviously she
at that time didn't consider U.S. residency for Barack as an
overriding consideration. Presumably, she had a good faith
intent at that point to spend the rest of her life in Indonesia and
Obama's life would have taken a completely different turn. So
it's entirely plausible that she may have also gone back to Kenya
with her first(?) husband and Barack's father before the birth.
Along with all the other allegations including the Kenya account
and documents, and doubts about the Hawaii evidence and the
sister's conflicting account about what hospital he was born at,
it's the kind of issue that cries out for intense investigation. It
doesn't necessarily require any believe that Obama himself is
covering anything up. Conceivably, he was indeed born in
Kenya but his mother registered the birth in Hawaii if for no
other reason than to better pave the way for Obama being an
American citizen. Then when the Kenyan father left for good
two years later, the Indonesian stepfather enters the picture
and she moves to Indonesia. That, according to Berg's case,
introduces the new wrinkle where even if the birth in Hawaii
(as opposed to Kenya) is genuine, Obama citizenship status
was effectively altered by that and his mother would have had
to apply for those other documents upon returning to Hawaii.
All this could have happened without Obama having had any
knowledge that his citizenship was uncertain.
Someone mentioned or speculated whether DOJ would have
to be involved and investigating this. The case only appeared
at the end of August, perhaps a few weeks after the document
or "birth certificate" was produced by the Obama camp but
the authenticity of which is being challenged. Now the new
angle about the Indonesian citizenship's effect apparently only
appearing with the Berg filing on September 29 only five days
ago. A few days ago, there was a cryptic "October Surprise"
comment made by one of the talking heads. It wasn't in the
context of capturing or killing Osama bin Laden, nor of that
Troopergate non-issue that Palin faces. But IIRC it was in
the context of McCain's poll numbers being down and what
are his chances of recovering.
After learning of this issue (again, first I've heard of it was just
yesterday seeing the original post; same with David Johnston
and others perhaps), I'm wondering if that talking head was
alluding to this with the October Surprise remark. It strikes
me as inherently the kind of thing that is difficult to completely
resolve, especially with the Indonesian angle. This is unlike
the issue of "Muslim" being on that Indonesian school or other
document, which no one except the far right loons much cared
about. It has nothing to do with religion or race. People get
it as the citizenship rule that prevents Arnie and many others
from ever being President. Just the fact that there's a plausible
case being set out by not a household name but still a fairly
prominent Democrat in Pennsylvania, at the behest of some
disaffected Hillary supporters, is a revelation. Everyone's
been told he was born in Hawaii as if that and his citizenship
was 100% fact and beyond question.
George Grapman
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:36:47 -0700, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> concentration wrote:
>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>> concentration wrote:
>>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>>> Any reason that Fox news and the Washington Times are ignoring this?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>> And that reason is.............?
>>> It ain't time yet.
>> So is this is true it mean the Republican Department of Justice i
>> guilty of malfeasance for either not pursuing the case or delaying it
>> for political reasons.
>
>
> There is no law stating that speed is a requirement.
>
> Im sure Justice is "investigating" and as such, is not required to
> seek an indictment or presentation before a grand jury, or a Finding.
>
> But hey...if this is making you uncomfortable....good.
>
anything about the case?
George Grapman
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:38:19 -0700, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>
>
> Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
>
> Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
>
claim that started this thread, that a judge ordered Obama to produce
the document. So far all we have seen is:
A post confusing a federal judge with a magistrate.
A spurious web site.
A third party site.
The web site of the court which has no mention of this "order".
KalElFan
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76933
It provides some more info direct from the Plaintiff source, including
their intent to go the Court of Appeals and Supreme Court if necessary.
Looks like this isn't going away, and the Washington Post and Obama's
web sites attesting it ain't so won't be sufficient. The DNC also being
involved in trying to make it go away just makes it smell even worse.
The balance below is all from the last round.
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote in message
news:6kp3gsF...@mid.individual.net...
minerva
If his mother was an US citizen at the time of his birth, doesn't he
become one automatically regardless of where he was born? And therefore
qualifies to become president? I thought that was/is the case when so
many children were and are born to US citizens when serving in the
military or overseas for some reason at the time of birth? Can someone
refresh me on the law regarding this?
minerva
clouddreamer
>
>>
> If his mother was an US citizen at the time of his birth, doesn't he
> become one automatically regardless of where he was born? And therefore
> qualifies to become president? I thought that was/is the case when so
> many children were and are born to US citizens when serving in the
> military or overseas for some reason at the time of birth? Can someone
> refresh me on the law regarding this?
> minerva
Yes, they are. Just look at McCain...he was born in Panama. If Obama is
not a citizen, then neither is McCain.
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.
Gunner Asch
Responsible for Killing and Yardwork <mhm2...@meow.empire> wrote:
>>
>> You lost the point grapey, be a man and admit it.
>
>No, you just keep snipping everything which doesn't support you, or
>rather, which actively supports the opposing view. You must be a
>wingnut.
Based on that criteria....the perfect definiton of Liberal actions
here on usenet...he must be a Leftwingnut
KalElFan
news:NeKdnad1A5JTD3rV...@rcn.net...
McCain is in that latter situation because his father was an Admiral and
McCain was born at the Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone.
In fact the Panama Canal was even under American control at the time.
Obama is in a different situation. Neither of his parents were American
diplomats or military stationed overseas. His father was Kenyan, and
some time after he left Obama's mother married an Indonesian man and
went with him and her son to Indonesia. So there are actually two levels
of challenge to Obama's citizenship...
First, Berg is challenging the proof that he was born in Hawaii, citing
evidence that he was actually born in Kenya and then his mother
registered the birth in Hawaii.
Second, the move to Indonesia included what Berg says was Barack's
parents, specifically the stepfather, effectively applying for and receiving
on Barack's behalf Indonesian citizenship for him. The exact mechanism
for that happening I haven't seen described, but apparently it was a fait
accompli based on a document that indicated that. Under citizenship
laws in effect at the time, Berg says that effectively gave up Obama's
U.S. citizenship UNLESS his mother filed the appropriate application
and received a certificate of citizenship for Barack upon their return to
Hawaii.
At least that's the way it's being described based on what's out there.
I just learned about it yesterday, and on the face of it it seems to me
that there's a plausible case here that needs addressing.
KalElFan
news:DcedncZVA-RPDnrV...@supernews.com...
> minerva wrote:
>
>> If his mother was an US citizen at the time of his birth, doesn't he
>> become one automatically regardless of where he was born? And therefore
>> qualifies to become president? I thought that was/is the case when so
>> many children were and are born to US citizens when serving in the
>> military or overseas for some reason at the time of birth? Can someone
>> refresh me on the law regarding this?
>> minerva
>
>
> Yes, they are. Just look at McCain...he was born in Panama. If Obama is
> not a citizen, then neither is McCain.
No, again McCain's father was an Admiral and John was born at the Naval
Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone, which was then under U.S. control.
There was a U.S. Supreme Court case (I don't have the citation) that was
very clear in upholding citizenship of children born in such circumstances,
where the parents served abroad. The case did not relate specifically to a
Presidential candidate, but there's no reason a Presidential candidate would
be discriminated against on this issue. His citizenship would be upheld by
any lower court and the appeals courts would probably decline to hear it
because it's that crystal clear.
Obama's situation is different. In 1986 there was a change that allowed
any birth to one U.S. parent to qualify the child for citizenship:
But again that was 1986 and even today there's mention of having to
register with a U.S. consulate or embassy to prove it.
The full wiki on U.S. Citizenship is here:
straight --->
Not really.
--
not too random uselessnet weirdness:
Bill Shatzer wrote:
"And over 4,000 Americans have paid with their lives for that little
adventure. Plus a half a trillion dollars in national treasure
You might compare that with the number of lives lost on 9-11. Or the
economic injury incurred from that event.
It would have been cheaper in both lives and money to just suffer
another 9-11 every six or seven years.
Peace and justice,"
Baxter blurts out a plaintive call for Viagra:
"At my age, I don't need balls. I'm done with the procreation stuff."
WhorresD gets politically bipolar:
"I like McCain's plain speaking way, to the point,
no punches pulled.
I would trust McCain to do the right thing,
I think that he's a truthful person, with his heart in
the right place."
straight --->
>>> The judge DENIED the motion to dismiss and ordered Obama to produce etc...
>>>
>>> If you can't figure it out from here, with the links provided, there is no
>>> possible hope for you.
>
> doesnt really when anything
How does one "when anything"?
straight --->
Fuck off crapman.
straight --->
> Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:38:19 -0700, George Grapman
>> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>
>>
>> Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
>>
>> Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
>>
> Feel free to post anything more current,
Already done, you denied it.
Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork
laughing at the antics of straight --->, when they suddenly burst out in
Well, otherwise, the issue is bogus. Phony. Non-operational. Entirely
without merit...
Gunner Asch
<sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
Because Im not a conspiracy wacko who mistakes Governmental
incompetency with some Evil Plan.
Gunner Asch
<sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
September 29, is more current than Aug 24, ne?
Gunner
scree
they have problems with dates ya know...
scree
He's a fraud, sorry...
George Grapman
site. For some reason all we have seen is:
A third party site.
A link to a spurious site.
scree
> If such an order had been issued
Grapey, give it up, you doddering dimwit.
Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired)
> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>
>> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>>
Before I banish you to the trash can, I wanted to ask a few questions.
How's Denver, Spamantha? Did it avoid the mortgage crisis?
scree
> concentration wrote:
>> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>
>>> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>>>
> Before I banish you to the trash can, I wanted to ask a few questions.
Then you'd best get the attributions right.
> How's Denver, Spamantha?
Outstanding.
Prettiest fall season in years.
> Did it avoid the mortgage crisis?
Largely, yes.
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/othercities/atlanta/stories/2008/08/25/daily27.html
Phoenix was the weakest market from May to June, with a 2.6 percent drop
in house prices. Denver and Boston were the top performers, with price
growth of 1.5 percent and 1.2 percent, respectively.
Seth Hammond
"scree" <ta...@slope.down> wrote in message
news:48e7db87$0$26432$7836...@newsrazor.net...
> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>> concentration wrote:
>>> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>>>>
>> Before I banish you to the trash can, I wanted to ask a few questions.
>
> Then you'd best get the attributions right.
>
>> How's Denver, Spamantha?
>
> Outstanding.
>
> Prettiest fall season in years.
>
>> Did it avoid the mortgage crisis?
>
> Largely, yes.
>
> http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/othercities/atlanta/stories/2008/08/25/daily27.html
>
> Phoenix was the weakest market from May to June, with a 2.6 percent drop
> in house prices.
I just can't wait to get my house reappraised. I've been paying taxes on
inflated values.
> Denver and Boston were the top performers, with price growth of 1.5
> percent and 1.2 percent, respectively.
Good. If you ever get a house of your own you'll pay higher taxes than me.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>George Grapman wrote:
>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:38:19 -0700, George Grapman
>>> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>>
>>>
>>> Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
>>>
>>> Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
>>>
>> Feel free to post anything more current,
>
>Already done, you denied it.
Ayup
Gunner Asch
Ayup....symptoms of BDS are terrible to witness
scree
> "scree" <ta...@slope.down> wrote in message
> news:48e7db87$0$26432$7836...@newsrazor.net...
>> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>>> concentration wrote:
>>>> Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
>>>>> Hans Der Veiner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Wake us up when you post something legitimate, ass-gasket.
>>>>>
>>> Before I banish you to the trash can, I wanted to ask a few questions.
>> Then you'd best get the attributions right.
>>
>>> How's Denver, Spamantha?
>> Outstanding.
>>
>> Prettiest fall season in years.
>>
>>> Did it avoid the mortgage crisis?
>> Largely, yes.
>>
>> http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/othercities/atlanta/stories/2008/08/25/daily27.html
>>
>> Phoenix was the weakest market from May to June, with a 2.6 percent drop
>> in house prices.
>
>
> I just can't wait to get my house reappraised. I've been paying taxes on
> inflated values.
Get the recaps off the roof first, mmm 'k?
>> Denver and Boston were the top performers, with price growth of 1.5
>> percent and 1.2 percent, respectively.
>
> Good. If you ever get a house of your own you'll pay higher taxes than me.
Your stupidity is boundless.
Seth Hammond
"scree" <ta...@slope.down> wrote in message
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to speak over your head. You see, those of us
with homes of our own have what they call 'taxes' on them. Your landlord
pays his taxes, then charges you double that. That's how that works - even
if the county pays your rent.
scree
No worries, you'd need a cherry picker to get there.
> You see, those of us
> with homes of our own have what they call 'taxes' on them.
You call that double-wide a "home"?
Lol...
> Your landlord
Bad guess again.
Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork
laughing at the antics of scree, when they suddenly burst out in tears:
And yet, legally allowed to campaign for and hold public office in the
US.
Gunner Asch
Thats a mighty tall pointed head. Are you in the Guiness Book of
Records?
>
>> You see, those of us
>> with homes of our own have what they call 'taxes' on them.
>
>You call that double-wide a "home"?
>
You call your moms basement a "home"?
>Lol...
>
>> Your landlord
>
>Bad guess again.
So you dont pay taxes? Ill bet your mom does, unless you are both
living in Sec 8 housing, which is more likely.
Old crack whore and her faggot son living in the back
bedroom...ayup...much more likely
grandwazoo
Palin raised taxes. It was in essence a windfall profit tax, although
all her other energy and oil statistics were bunk.
KalElFan
"George Grapman" <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:dWKFk.2497$c45....@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
[responding to Gunner Asch]
> Feel free to post anything more current, especially any evidence of
> the claim that started this thread, that a judge ordered Obama to
> produce the document...
That attempted "defense" becomes conspicuous in its own right,
because it gets to the procedural delays of Obama and the DNC.
Nobody who learns of this is interested in how successful Obama
and the DNC have been in their stonewalling, or arguing that Berg
has no standing. They're interested in Berg's, the Plaintiff and
former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania's case, and
the various evidence and issues that Obama hasn't addressed.
Again, I didn't know about this until yesterday and it sounded like
David Johnston and others in the thread hadn't either. One quote
from Berg estimates that 90% or so of the American people know
nothing about it yet, but they're finding out. A few hours ago I
took a look at the Obama site (Fight the Smears) that supposedly
refuted all this. It does NOTHING of the sort, not even close.
It has a scan of a document that's laughably ineffective at proving
anything. Anyone could concoct it and post it. It has a blacked
out serial number and no signature or date. Even if it did there'd
still be all kinds of questions surrounding it and steps that would
have to be taken to prove its authenticity. But it doesn't even
come close to being a sham proof.
Fortunately for the Obama site, there's also a factcheck.org page
that tries its best to offer further support, but in the process it only
admits some deficiencies and fails to address most of the evidence
and issues raised in Berg's case. (I'd also dismissed factcheck.org
more than two weeks ago as a reliable objective and independent
judge of anything, but that's another issue).
Factcheck.org says they reviewed the document at Obama's
campaign office of all places. It'd be funny if it wasn't a serious
issue. They have an August 2007 date and signature stamp.
They concede this isn't the "long form" birth certificate that the
hospital (which they don't name) is supposed to have. They
say they don't know why Hawaii doesn't offer that. They show
a Honolulu paper classified entry 9 days after the birth, that
doesn't mention the hospital or even say "in Honolulu". So it's
actually entirely consistent with the Berg allegation that Obama's
mother registered the birth in Hawaii after returning.
It's only a month to the election and who knows maybe Obama
can make it to the finish line stonewalling this. He has virtually
the entire mainstream media as his proxies (the biggest scandal
of this election campaign). But if Berg has or is about to get
the discovery order he's asked for, or failing that gets the
appeal court to let this go forward as it should, then I think
the floodgates will open and the 10-90 awareness will flip
to 90-10 within a week. Apart from the merit -- the various
evidence and issues raised by Berg -- the stonewalling to
date will itself be damning.
It'd probably also play into the character issue that I think
McCain-Palin are right to focus on over the next month. The
Obama campaign is obsessed with trying to connect McCain
to Bush, which is bogus but even if it wasn't it's a heck of a
lot better than the long list of associations Obama has. I
saw another one the other day that I hadn't been aware of,
and this citizenship issue also brings back the one about the
half-brother living in poverty in Kenya (and the half sister
giving two different hospital names). If it's true that there's
evidence of Kenyan relatives saying he was born there, it
again reinforces the serious character doubts because it's
less likely that Berg's allegations could be true and Obama
be totally surprised by it. Almost as a matter of fact at this
point, it seems his best credible position is "Well, as far as
I always knew I was an American citizen, and I just don't
want the questions and issues in Berg's case to surface
because I'm not sure I can answer those..."
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:17:56 -0600, "straight --->" <a...@nar.row>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:38:19 -0700, George Grapman
>>>>> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>>>>
>>>>> Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
>>>>>
>>>> Feel free to post anything more current,
>>> Already done, you denied it.
>>
>>
>> Ayup
>>
>>
>> "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
>> and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich
>
>Palin raised taxes. It was in essence a windfall profit tax, although
>all her other energy and oil statistics were bunk.
Your buffoonery is noted and laughed at
Seth Hammond
"scree" <ta...@slope.down> wrote in message
OK, warden then.
scree
That's a mighty poor guess from way down there.
>>> You see, those of us
>>> with homes of our own have what they call 'taxes' on them.
>> You call that double-wide a "home"?
>>
>
> You call your moms basement a "home"?
>> Lol...
>>
>>> Your landlord
>> Bad guess again.
>
>
> So you dont pay taxes?
You seem probe to reaching for unprovable misconceptions.
> Ill bet
No, you're done.
scree
Your trendline is straight down.
scree
> Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:17:56 -0600, "straight --->" <a...@nar.row>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:38:19 -0700, George Grapman
>>>>> <sfgeorge.@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>>>>
>>>>> Your Snopes cite was last updated August 24th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its likely to be a bit out of date, ne?
>>>>>
>>>> Feel free to post anything more current,
>>> Already done, you denied it.
>>
>>
>> Ayup
>>
>>
>> "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
>> and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich
>
> Palin raised taxes.
Wrong.
Gunner Asch
"Keeper" would be more appropriate
scree
Not necessarily the latter...
clouddreamer
You all still arguing that silly point?
He has a birth certificate. It has been authenticated:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
<sigh>
..
--
We must change the way we live,
or the climate will do it for us.
scree
> scree wrote:
>> Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork wrote:
>>> Hail Eris! On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:36:02 -0600, Eris Kallisti
>>> Discordia was
>>> laughing at the antics of scree, when they suddenly burst out in tears:
>>>> Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork wrote:
>>>> He's a fraud, sorry...
>>>
>>> And yet, legally allowed to campaign for and hold public office in the
>>> US.
>>>
>>
>> Not necessarily the latter...
>
>
> You all still arguing that silly point?
>
You still spewing shit?
KalElFan
news:fsCdnQFsHomK0HTV...@supernews.com...
[responding to scree]
> He has a birth certificate. It has been authenticated:
>
> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
It doesn't come close to addressing the evidence and issues raised in
Berg's case.
http://google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/bd363ad5c9c6b584
It ought to be a simple matter, for starters, to establish what hospital
Obama was born at and check the actual record of birth. Any kind
of re-issued attestation is insufficient to refute Berg's case, which is
actually twofold but on this point he alleges that Obama's mother
gave birth to him in Kenya and she registered the birth in Hawaii.
The document factcheck.org looked at is dated 2007 and has other
questions surrounding it. Berg also cites evidence like Obama's half
sister giving at least two different hospitals as the one Obama was
born in, and Kenyan relatives saying Obama was born there, and
some documentation in Kenya indicating that.
Let's stipulate that all of Berg's case remains to be proven, including
his argument on Obama's Indonesian citizenship and what effect that
has on his U.S. Citizenship. But that's the whole point of having it
heard in a court. Instead of allowing that, Obama and the DNC are
attempting to stonewall and if they get the case dismissed it will be
on a technicality not on the merits. Then, according to Berg, it'll be
appealed. If Obama wins, the RNC or others will probably raise
the same challenges before electors vote. I wouldn't rule out this
issue being raised before that by McCain-Palin, on the campaign
trail or in the last debate where it would have the widest viewership.
Or a mainstream enough publication will pick it up and provide
cover for introducing it. By then a major part of the story will be
the ongoing stonewalling, and along with all the other character
questions surrounding Obama that will have been pounded away
at this month it'll add up.
The issue here is to refute the Berg allegation that Obama's birth
was simply registered by his mother after she returned to Hawaii.
Have a Democrat and Republican and an impartial person with
some document expertise attend at the hospital or wherever its
archived records have ended up at. Inspect the document(s) and
attest or certify that they clearly record the birth itself taking place
in that hospital in Hawaii. Obviously the record should look like
it was from 1961 and be similar to other birth records of the era.
There might still be challenges if Kenyan testimony and records
exist that he was born there, and the Indonesian citizenship issue
would remain to be dealt with. But at least the Obama side would
have more than a 2007 document that does nothing to address
Berg's case. It's the source records that are key.
clouddreamer
> "clouddreamer" <St...@Climate.change.ca> wrote in message
> news:fsCdnQFsHomK0HTV...@supernews.com...
>
> [responding to scree]
>
>> He has a birth certificate. It has been authenticated:
>>
>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>
> It doesn't come close to addressing the evidence and issues raised in
> Berg's case.
Only in your eyes. This foolishness just goes to show the UTTER
DESPERATION of right wing supporters.
The Black Goat With A Thousand Young
foamed wildly:
So, you believe that you're hallucinating his possession of a Senate
seat?
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! Cthulhu fhtagn! mhm 29x21; Top Asshole #3; Lits Slut #16
Chas. E. Pemberton; Most Hated Usenetizen of All Time #13
Gutter Chix0r #17; BowTie's Spuriously Accused Pedo Photographer #4
COOSN-029-06-71069; Usenet Ruiner #5; Official Chung Demon
AUK Psycho & Felon #21; Parrot & Zombie #2
Anonymous Psycho Criminal #18
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2008
Hammer of Thor, July 2008
"Life size models of Cthulhu, on sale now!"
"A Coven of Hate which thinks it can stop Satan, or that Satan is
required to be a Pacifist like Jesus!" -- Just take the blue pill,
Azure. Message-ID:
<4O6dncqO9o5J233V...@posted.gcicommunications>
"Who in their right mind would believe the totally unsubstantiated and
unsupported proposition that all ancient and mediaeval European
historians made everything all up in collusion with each other as part
of a grand pan-European conspiracy spanning nearly 3,000 years to fake
its history when it had none before." -- Naturally, there is no possible
way they could simply have misinterpreted events and old folk tales, and
passed on their misinterpretations, because ancient and mediaeval
historians had insight into advanced physics, chemistry, and many
related disciplines. Right, Aggie? Message-ID:
<AfmdnY9d_rF...@eclipse.net.uk>
"I got my degree from on of the top 3 universities in the UK and top 10
in the world.
"You don't have a clue about science. Biology is not a true science.
Personal opinions are not science." -- Aggie teh cyuntist, in Message
-ID: <SYydncOQTP9sjUzV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"IMBECILE! There is NO in-between. Read the original French. Nostradamus
was an early French psychiatrist. What you think are prophecies are his
case notes." -- Why didn't I see it before, Aggie? Of course! And
Paracelsus was an early physicist, too, right? Message-ID:
<j56dnXNOgNeeO1zV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Archaeology is NOT history you FOOL!" -- Aggie Teh Scholar. Message-ID:
<v8CdnSOj3ufRP1DV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"You DON'T HAVE A CLUE what mythology is.
"Mythology IS the same thing as history and Gesta Danorum is purely
historical.
"Take your idiotic and ignorant conspiracy theories about the grand
falsification of European history and shove them up your arse where they
came from." -- Argyros Argyrou/Agamemnon, teh Rhodes Scholar, in
Message-ID: <MeidnSdouex...@eclipse.net.uk>
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Agamemnon
"Folklore is a 19th century Romanticist movement based on
contemporary popular northern European music."
"The entire concept was concocted by the Brothers Grimm during the
Romanticist literary period and entered the discipline of music in the
following century with the Romanticist musical period after Beethoven."
-- Please send medical bills for any damage to your health caused by the
above two quotes to Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis. Message-ID:
<UNGdnZVRnLb...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Kolofilia between a human and another human is as depraved as fucking
animals." -- Agamemnon, poutso kelftis, just plain doesn't like sex,
apparently. Message-ID:
<asqdneLCt_DZ6e_V...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Roe V Wade has zero bearing on my existence other than it affects it
adversely."
-- Johnny Wentzky never had much truck with "logic". Message-ID:
<V6xNe.27650$XM3....@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
"You are the GOD-DAMNED, IGNORANT LIAR here.
Now, that is not me taking the Lord's name in vain."
-- John Wentzky: Living proof of the Death of Irony, in Message-ID:
<jljOe.5348$ZD4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
"For the most part, morality is universal." -- John "Easily" Shocked
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<Ie2Qe.8199$wb5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Gay men deserve to die." -- John Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<RSR3f.23691$5l.1...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Laws count, the US Constitution count more, and we need to have judges
on the bench who are going to Carry Out those laws, not Make Law or
Interpret Law." -- John "Easily" Shocked contradicts his own words on
the overriding importance of society's reluctance to accept
homosexuality, in Message-ID: <brIDe.67062$Qo.12613@fed1read01>
"I heard that you are still trespassing in the USA. If it's black, it
refuses to work and it accuses whites of racism. What a joke.
Look at a map and see where Africa is, bitchboy. What is this GOD DAMNED
NIGGERISH ALLEGIANCE YOU HAVE TO TRYING TO GET WHITE PEOPLE TO HAND OFF
OTHER WHITE PEOPLE TO SOMEONE YOU THINK IS NOT AGAINST YOUR CRIMINAL
ALLEGIANCE??????
Too afraid to tell the truth?
WIMPS!
COWARDS!
LIARS!
MILITANT ASSPRICKS!
LOSERS!
FAILED BULLSHITBOYS WHOSE CANDY HAS NO RED ON IT! YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!
I LICKED THE RED OFF YOUR CANDY BECAUSE YOU ARE YOUR ILK HAVEN'T GOT ANY
FURY!
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T BEAT ME VIA ANY LAWFUL MEANS WHATSOEVER! YOU'RE A
NAMBY PAMBY ANTI-USA ASSPRICK!" -- Huge pools of MOLTEN WENTZKY are
being found all over the Carolinas, after his reply to Panama Floyd, in
Message-ID: <qiA3k.2556$Xe....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
http://www.screedbomb.info/coosn/
Q: Who is eligible for a COOSN?
A: Kookologists with 10 or more verifiable UV points may exchange these
points for a Cabal Obsidian Order Sombrero Number.
Q: Who is *not* eligible for a COOSN?
A: Certified net.kooks; notorious net.cretins; terminally clueless
fuckwits; previous winners of kook-awards, unless an official pardon has
been granted by the FNVW.
Q: How do I apply for a COOSN?
A: Make a Usenet post to alt.usenet.kooks (crossposting to your favourite
newsgroups is acceptable); to ensure that the FNVW actually sees your
request, try to use either of the following formats for the subject line:
[COOSN Application] Your name (or best known handle) here
[COOSN Request] Your name (or best known handle) here
Please provide a list of 10 UV points - along with verifiable evidence for
each point wherever possible.
Q: Can one Kookologist nominate *another* Kookologist for a COOSN?
A: Yes, but the proposer should supply a verifiable list of 10 UV points
for the nominee at the time of the nomination. Also, the nominee must
accept the nomination before a COOSN is issued.
Q: What happens if my Sombrero Number application is refused by the FNVW?
A: The Office of Darth Bawl is always looking for new candidates. Nuff
said.
Q: What are "UV points"?
1. Threats of violence, especially death. (one point per kook)
2. Lists, i.e. *real* lists, not just mentions of two or three names in
the same post. One list per kook, unless the lists are clearly meant to
serve different purposes.
3. Fanboi sites (one point per kook, not one point per site. Minimum
qualification is a whole page about you; pages containing lists don't
score extra if the list also appears on Usenet).
4. Fanboi newsgroups (one point per kook, not one point per group)
5. Attempts at real-life contact (e.g. posting phone numbers)
6. Fake awards, revenge nominations etc. (one point per kook)
7. Mentions in a newsgroup FAQ (e.g. soc.men).
8. Being the target of a Kooksuit (one point per kook).
Gerald C. Newton is a wife-beating fuckhead.
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/G-Dolf
KalElFan
> KalElFan wrote:
>
>> "clouddreamer" <St...@Climate.change.ca> wrote in message
>> news:fsCdnQFsHomK0HTV...@supernews.com...
>>
>> [responding to scree]
>>
>>> He has a birth certificate. It has been authenticated:
>>>
>>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>>
>> It doesn't come close to addressing the evidence and issues raised in
>> Berg's case.
>>
>> http://google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/bd363ad5c9c6b584
>
> Only in your eyes. This foolishness just goes to show the UTTER
> DESPERATION of right wing supporters.
Oops for you again. The case was brought by a guy who's much more a
left winger like you, on behalf of the PUMA Hillary supporters. As with
your response though, the main issue is that Obama and the DNC are
stonewalling rather than addressing the substance of Berg's case. Not
only is this not foolishness, it becomes more and more conspicuous that
they aren't nuking this with proof that refutes it.