Dr. Who--The End of Time pt1 & pt2 (the real spoilers)
Ken from Chicago
ruddy uncool, luv.
Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the mid-20th
century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the archfoe: the Master, not
to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet Earth.
So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as intended?
Nice build up to that very point. Nice resolution to the whole Doctor /
Master rivalry, once and for all time (yeah, right, no, this time for sure,
Charlie Brown). Turns out the Master was not evil, but rather ...
misunderstood. He and the Doctor were much more alike than they care to
think.
Of course, we don't watch Dr. Who for physics, science, history, so the fact
that a diamond could be tossed out of timelock with a flick of one's hands,
well, we won't sweat the small stuff. Or why not use the sonic screwdriver
to open the door--well, like I said. DOCTOR WHO isn't about that it's about
the story and the characters and the choices they make. Even with the weight
of the universe and all of history crushing down upon them, it's about
characters, very human characters, having to make very human, very difficult
moral choices.
Natch, the end of the Doctor is all because the Doctor is a moral man and
ends up making having to make a moral choice--without the weight of history,
the universe or even a planet to nudge him--merely one life, one ordinary
human life, a "little person", as he referred to in THE WATERS OF MARS. In
the end, his end comes from him living up to his own morals.
Good show, Doctor. We are most amused and entertained.
-- Ken from Chicago (who wished Timothy Dalton could have survived, like in
THE ROCKETEER and SHAUN OF THE DEAD, he plays a really entertaining villain)
P.S. Really? Martha and Mickey? That seemed a little ... cliche. Even I
didn't go for that in my fake spoilers.
P.P.S. What was the final line of the new Doctor as he was flying / falling
/ crashing to Earth?
EGK
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is very
>ruddy uncool, luv.
Look at you, chuck. Talkin all british with the "luv" thing? :)
>Natch, the end of the Doctor is all because the Doctor is a moral man and
>ends up making having to make a moral choice--without the weight of history,
>the universe or even a planet to nudge him--merely one life, one ordinary
>human life, a "little person", as he referred to in THE WATERS OF MARS. In
>the end, his end comes from him living up to his own morals.
>
>Good show, Doctor. We are most amused and entertained.
I liked it but even though I'm not a Who expert by any stretch, even I knew
a regeneration was coming. It seemed awfully overwrought to be making such
a big deal about this particular one. Did the Ood ever sing for him before
for instance in his previous 9 regenerations?
>P.S. Really? Martha and Mickey? That seemed a little ... cliche. Even I
>didn't go for that in my fake spoilers.
They were all kind of cliche but it was meant to be a trip down memory lane.
I guess they had to get all the main characters in somehow.
>P.P.S. What was the final line of the new Doctor as he was flying / falling
>/ crashing to Earth?
Geronimo!
Ken from Chicago
"EGK" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:qpc1k51vvajaudips...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:11:58 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is
>>very
>>ruddy uncool, luv.
>
> Look at you, chuck. Talkin all british with the "luv" thing? :)
Oy, guv'ner. I can gab a bit o da Mean's English when I have a mind to.
>>Natch, the end of the Doctor is all because the Doctor is a moral man and
>>ends up making having to make a moral choice--without the weight of
>>history,
>>the universe or even a planet to nudge him--merely one life, one ordinary
>>human life, a "little person", as he referred to in THE WATERS OF MARS. In
>>the end, his end comes from him living up to his own morals.
>>
>>Good show, Doctor. We are most amused and entertained.
>
> I liked it but even though I'm not a Who expert by any stretch, even I
> knew
> a regeneration was coming. It seemed awfully overwrought to be making
> such
> a big deal about this particular one. Did the Ood ever sing for him
> before
> for instance in his previous 9 regenerations?
Yeah, the final bow was a ... wee ... bit stretched out.
>>P.S. Really? Martha and Mickey? That seemed a little ... cliche. Even I
>>didn't go for that in my fake spoilers.
>
> They were all kind of cliche but it was meant to be a trip down memory
> lane.
> I guess they had to get all the main characters in somehow.
Rose's mum and Mickey would have been mo interesting twist.
Btw, is the Doctor spose to be the kid's dad? I suddenly got that vibe.
>>P.P.S. What was the final line of the new Doctor as he was flying /
>>falling
>>/ crashing to Earth?
>
> Geronimo!
Oh, so THAT's it. I could barely make out the crashing part then he said
something I couldn't make out. Thanks, mate.
-- Ken from Chicago
Anim8rFSK
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is very
> ruddy uncool, luv.
>
> Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the mid-20th
> century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the archfoe: the Master, not
> to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet Earth.
>
> So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as intended?
A lazy writer just borrowing stuff and sticking it in wholesale whether
it fits or not. About the only fun to be had was guessing what movie
any given moment was from. Beyond that, I was bored stiff an
unimpressed. And, Martha married MICKEY???? Talk about settling!
--
Tiger Woods has just been named "Athlete of the Decade"
His chosen event? The Broad Jump.
Anim8rFSK
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Btw, is the Doctor spose to be the kid's dad? I suddenly got that vibe.
No, that kid is some artificial construct Sarah Jane adopted in the
pilot to her own show, IIRC.
Jack Bohn
>>>P.S. Really? Martha and Mickey? That seemed a little ... cliche. Even I
>>>didn't go for that in my fake spoilers.
Martha had been engaged to another doctor, guess that didn't work
out.
>> They were all kind of cliche but it was meant to be a trip down memory
>> lane.
>> I guess they had to get all the main characters in somehow.
>
>Rose's mum and Mickey would have been mo interesting twist.
OK, ewww.
>Btw, is the Doctor spose to be the kid's dad? I suddenly got that vibe.
The one he saved from the car? No that's Sarah Jane's adopted
one, he was genetically engineered from... mumble, mumble... as
seen in the first episode (or pilot movie?) of her series.
>>>P.P.S. What was the final line of the new Doctor as he was flying /
>>>falling
>>>/ crashing to Earth?
>>
>> Geronimo!
>
>Oh, so THAT's it. I could barely make out the crashing part then he said
>something I couldn't make out. Thanks, mate.
I watched it with the closed captioning on, because I caught the
late show while others were sleeping, and -you know- that whole
English accent thing.
--
-Jack
David Johnston
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is very
>ruddy uncool, luv.
>
>Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the mid-20th
>century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the archfoe: the Master, not
>to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet Earth.
>
>So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as intended?
>
>Nice build up to that very point. Nice resolution to the whole Doctor /
>Master rivalry, once and for all time (yeah, right, no, this time for sure,
>Charlie Brown). Turns out the Master was not evil, but rather ...
>misunderstood. He and the Doctor were much more alike than they care to
>think.
>
>Of course, we don't watch Dr. Who for physics, science, history, so the fact
>that a diamond could be tossed out of timelock with a flick of one's hands,
>well, we won't sweat the small stuff. Or why not use the sonic screwdriver
>to open the door--
There was a reason for that. Use of the sonic screwdriver would
trigger the reactor flush (so the Doctor explained). If he opened the
door, it wouldn't be contained.
Anim8rFSK
David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
Of course, the old guy wasn't in any immediate danger, or even
inconvenience. There was no reason for Spock to go in and mix the
matter and antimatter with his bare hands at that very moment, any more
than there was any reason for the old guy to lock himself in there in
the first place.
Dano
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-C0598...@news.dc1.easynews.com...
> In article <RaSdnaoDupg9Ct3W...@giganews.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is
very
> > ruddy uncool, luv.
> >
> > Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the
mid-20th
Master, not
> > to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet
Earth.
> >
> > So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as
intended?
>
> A lazy writer just borrowing stuff and sticking it in wholesale whether
> it fits or not. About the only fun to be had was guessing what movie
> any given moment was from. Beyond that, I was bored stiff an
> unimpressed. And, Martha married MICKEY???? Talk about settling!
>
> --
Hey! Give Mickey a break eh? He turned very heroic when last we saw him.
And Martha had become quite the warrior as well. Threw me a bit too...but
made some sense on second thought.
Arthur Lipscomb
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:psednSGvtpxiWd3W...@giganews.com...
>
> "EGK" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:qpc1k51vvajaudips...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:11:58 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
>> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is
>>>very
>>>ruddy uncool, luv.
>>
>> Look at you, chuck. Talkin all british with the "luv" thing? :)
>
> Oy, guv'ner. I can gab a bit o da Mean's English when I have a mind to.
>
>>>Natch, the end of the Doctor is all because the Doctor is a moral man and
>>>ends up making having to make a moral choice--without the weight of
>>>history,
>>>the universe or even a planet to nudge him--merely one life, one ordinary
>>>human life, a "little person", as he referred to in THE WATERS OF MARS.
>>>In
>>>the end, his end comes from him living up to his own morals.
>>>
But would it be the same if the Doctor wasn't going to regenerate? When
faced with a similar dilemma during "Mawdryn Undead" that would have used up
all of his lives, The Doctor initially ran off in his TARDIS.
>>>Good show, Doctor. We are most amused and entertained.
>>
>> I liked it but even though I'm not a Who expert by any stretch, even I
>> knew
>> a regeneration was coming. It seemed awfully overwrought to be making
>> such
>> a big deal about this particular one. Did the Ood ever sing for him
>> before
>> for instance in his previous 9 regenerations?
>
> Yeah, the final bow was a ... wee ... bit stretched out.
>
>>>P.S. Really? Martha and Mickey? That seemed a little ... cliche. Even I
>>>didn't go for that in my fake spoilers.
>>
>> They were all kind of cliche but it was meant to be a trip down memory
>> lane.
>> I guess they had to get all the main characters in somehow.
>
> Rose's mum and Mickey would have been mo interesting twist.
Last I recalled, Mickey was in some alternate universe. I didn't even
recognize him with the beard. Did he and Martha ever meet on screen?
>
> Btw, is the Doctor spose to be the kid's dad? I suddenly got that vibe.
You can't pick and choose which Whoverse shows you watch. It's all or
nothing! ;-)
The Doctor
Anim8rFSK <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <RaSdnaoDupg9Ct3W...@giganews.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is very
>> ruddy uncool, luv.
>>
>> Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the mid-20th
>> century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the archfoe: the Master, not
>> to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet Earth.
>>
>> So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as intended?
>
>A lazy writer just borrowing stuff and sticking it in wholesale whether
>it fits or not. About the only fun to be had was guessing what movie
>any given moment was from. Beyond that, I was bored stiff an
>unimpressed. And, Martha married MICKEY???? Talk about settling!
>
Welcome to the late RTD.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
The Doctor
David Johnston
wrote:
>In article <4ui1k5lt7k1o9jvek...@4ax.com>,
> David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:11:58 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
>> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is very
>> >ruddy uncool, luv.
>> >
>> >Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the mid-20th
>> >century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the archfoe: the Master, not
>> >to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet Earth.
>> >
>> >So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as intended?
>> >
>> >Nice build up to that very point. Nice resolution to the whole Doctor /
>> >Master rivalry, once and for all time (yeah, right, no, this time for sure,
>> >Charlie Brown). Turns out the Master was not evil, but rather ...
>> >misunderstood. He and the Doctor were much more alike than they care to
>> >think.
>> >
>> >Of course, we don't watch Dr. Who for physics, science, history, so the fact
>> >that a diamond could be tossed out of timelock with a flick of one's hands,
>> >well, we won't sweat the small stuff. Or why not use the sonic screwdriver
>> >to open the door--
>>
>> There was a reason for that. Use of the sonic screwdriver would
>> trigger the reactor flush (so the Doctor explained). If he opened the
>> door, it wouldn't be contained.
>
>Of course, the old guy wasn't in any immediate danger, or even
>inconvenience.
No, he was going to die. While trying to mess with the controls or
use the screwdriver would remove his remaining time, his death was
something under a minute away, anyway.
Anim8rFSK
David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
It was? Okay, by that time I was probably dozing. The only part of any
of it I liked was the visits with old friends epilog.
Mark Nobles
> I watched it with the closed captioning on, because I caught the
> late show while others were sleeping, and -you know- that whole
> English accent thing.
You got closed captions? I turned them on, but no joy. There were a few
places that I got lost because the music drowned out the conversation.
Mark Nobles
> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ANIM8Rfsk-C0598...@news.dc1.easynews.com...
> > In article <RaSdnaoDupg9Ct3W...@giganews.com>,
> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Cuz deliberately spoiling new / recents episodes in subject headings is
> very
> > > ruddy uncool, luv.
> > >
> > > Wow, Batman doesn't use guns--not since his earliest version in the
> mid-20th
> > > century. Neither does the Doctor, not to kill the ard become chfoe: the
> Master, not
> > > to save his own life, not even to save all the human beings on planet
> Earth.
> > >
> > > So what makes the Doctor desperately lunge for a gun--to use as
> intended?
> >
> > A lazy writer just borrowing stuff and sticking it in wholesale whether
> > it fits or not. About the only fun to be had was guessing what movie
> > any given moment was from. Beyond that, I was bored stiff an
> > unimpressed. And, Martha married MICKEY???? Talk about settling!
> >
> Hey! Give Mickey a break eh? He turned very heroic when last we saw him.
> And Martha had become quite the warrior as well. Threw me a bit too...but
> made some sense on second thought.
Last I remember of her, Martha was head of UNIT, (which seems like the
new and improved, and Captain Jack-free, Torchwood) where she was an
administrator not a warrior and Mickey was a warrior in an alternate
dimension where he was the leader in the resistance against the
Cybermen invasion.
Anim8rFSK
Mark Nobles <cmn-n...@comcast.net> wrote:
Yeah, I can't remember what Mickeys we ended up left with. Isn't one of
them with Rose? I thought that was warrior Mickey.
EGK
That's what I was thinking too. It's bad enough we might have 45yrs of
backstory thrown at us at any time. Now we're supposed to be aware of
things that happen in other shows like Torchwood and Sarah Jane. I don't
watch either of those.
I guess that's a good way to head off any criticism of the writing though.
People can just say we missed something.
Anim8rFSK
EGK <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:38:23 -0700, Anim8rFSK <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <040120100544287616%cmn-n...@comcast.net>,
> > Mark Nobles <cmn-n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Last I remember of her, Martha was head of UNIT, (which seems like the
> >> new and improved, and Captain Jack-free, Torchwood) where she was an
> >> administrator not a warrior and Mickey was a warrior in an alternate
> >> dimension where he was the leader in the resistance against the
> >> Cybermen invasion.
> >
> >Yeah, I can't remember what Mickeys we ended up left with. Isn't one of
> >them with Rose? I thought that was warrior Mickey.
>
> That's what I was thinking too.
If so, he's in the universe that can never ever ever be visted again by
any means, never never never, not by the Doctor, not by anybody, never
ever, no possible way, just can't happen, not at all.
It's bad enough we might have 45yrs of
> backstory thrown at us at any time. Now we're supposed to be aware of
> things that happen in other shows like Torchwood and Sarah Jane. I don't
> watch either of those.
Hey! He didn't say goodbye to K-9. Pout.
>
> I guess that's a good way to head off any criticism of the writing though.
> People can just say we missed something.
That's why the 'alternate universe' of Abram's Star Trek, to support
lazy and incompetent writing.
peachyashiepassion
Mickey met Martha and moved back to this universe in last season's
grand finale where repelled the Daleks and towed the earth back into
place using the TARDIS.
No Sarah Jane and no Torchwood required. You just had to watch
Doctor Who.
Anim8rFSK
peachyashiepassion <exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
So Rose is all alone?
Julie
Like two entire episodes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stolen_Earth
http://www.thewriterstale.co.uk/pdfs/Doctor%20Who%204%20Ep.13%20-%20Shooting%20Script%20-%20Journeys%20End%20-%2031.03%2008.pdf
see page 61 in the pdf of "Journey's End".
--
Julie
http://www.miatoo.net
David Johnston
wrote:
Nah. She's got the Doctor's half-human clone.
EGK
Oh, I fully admit I probably didn't pay enough attention. Or rather paid
about all the attention I was going to. :) Once they started with the
alternate universe stories with duplicates, I kinda lose interest of what
happens to them.
EGK
Oh, one other thing. Can you find anything in there that made the Doctor
invulnerable enough to jump from the spaceship and through the plate-glass
skylights only to end up with a few scratches? I was never under the
impression he had those kinds of super powers. I'm not being funny either.
I'm serious. Does he? Of course I neve imagined Time Lords shooting
energy bolts from the palms of their hands either.
Pete B
says...
> I liked it but even though I'm not a Who expert by any stretch, even I knew
> a regeneration was coming. It seemed awfully overwrought to be making such
> a big deal about this particular one. Did the Ood ever sing for him before
> for instance in his previous 9 regenerations?
>
They had to prepare the kids so they didn't have a heartattack when
Tennant left ;)
Pete B
says...
> >A lazy writer just borrowing stuff and sticking it in wholesale whether
> >it fits or not. About the only fun to be had was guessing what movie
> >any given moment was from. Beyond that, I was bored stiff an
> >unimpressed. And, Martha married MICKEY???? Talk about settling!
> >
>
> Welcome to the late RTD.
>
Pity his first name wasn't Simon
peachyashiepassion
Ok, so then you don't actually watch Doctor Who?
Anim8rFSK
peachyashiepassion <exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm serious. If this Mickey is the one that was with Rose and he left
her, does she have another Mickey? Or did she pair off with that
universe's Martha Jones, and her identical twin cousin from Torchwood,
and, um, I'll be in my bunk.
The Doctor
That looks like doctor number 10.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK
peachyashiepassion
The only relevant thing that happened in another show was Sarah
Jane acquiring a son, and that was dealt with last year, not this.
EGK
So when did the Doctor become practically indestructable to be able to
survive that leap through from the space ship with nothing but scratches?
Mark Nobles
EGK
wrote:
That's about what I figured :) See, I wasn't even that bothered by it
simply because i'm NOT in to the show's backstory. I would think those who
are would be really pissed about that kind of writing.
peachyashiepassion
That's my thought, too.
Arthur Lipscomb
There was too much other stuff going on to dwell on it much. Now when the
episode was finally over and I had time to actually think about what I
saw...still a fun episode though.
EGK
Yeah, I enjoyed it for what it was. I don't take Doctor Who very seriously.
On the other hand, they did go way overboard in making this one cartoony. I
can see where that might make a lot of old fans mad. The show has a
reputation (I really have no idea if it's deserved or not) of being more
cerebral than most. My brother is a big fan and has seen pretty near every
episode I think. I could never get in to the older episodes. They just
look way too cheesy to me.
