ATWT; Dusty so annoying
Karen
in a long time. His bellowing is just beyond tolerable. Ugh...does anyone
like him?
Ray Geneburn
"Karen" <elli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Z62Pb.18404$1e.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
when we write about how much he annoys we, the viewers.
Ray
DonnaB
<100q0l8...@corp.supernews.com>, "Ray Geneburn"
<ra...@charter.net> wrote:
> ... but it's becoming more and more apparent to me that ATWT is gleeful
> when we write about how much he annoys we, the viewers.
What is it that makes that seem apparent to you?
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
"Well, I'm sure you've enjoyed your little Nancy Drew moment." - Babs to Rose, ATWT, 11-3-03
Sarah Estell
"Karen" <elli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Z62Pb.18404$1e.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
There have been times when I've liked him - times when I've thought Grayson
turned in a decent performance. But yesterday was just the bottom of the
barrell for me. Grayson is awful. The character is awful. I want them both
gone because this is the ONLY thing that isn't working for me on ATWT right
now - which makes it all the more annoying!
SarahE
Maryann Iaria
hot kisses---in the booth of the METRO...woo hoo...mai
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"DonnaB" <shall...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:qgbq005q0actomjr7...@4ax.com...
Johnson
> > Dusty Donovan has got to be the single most annoying character on this
> show
> > in a long time. His bellowing is just beyond tolerable. Ugh...does
> anyone
> > like him?
>
> There have been times when I've liked him - times when I've thought
Grayson
> turned in a decent performance. But yesterday was just the bottom of the
> barrell for me. Grayson is awful. The character is awful. I want them
both
> gone because this is the ONLY thing that isn't working for me on ATWT
right
> now - which makes it all the more annoying!
>
> SarahE
I am so damn annoyed and disgusted at Dusty and Lilly right now. They were
so hell bent on destroying Paul without concrete facts, oh, and Dusty
getting the analysis on Paul's computer from "a friend in the department".
They just want to fry someone and Paul is an easy target. They have ruined
Lilly,
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Sarah Estell
"Johnson" <mmjohn...@starstream.net> wrote in message
news:400d9949$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
> > > Dusty Donovan has got to be the single most annoying character on this
> > show
> > > in a long time. His bellowing is just beyond tolerable. Ugh...does
> > anyone
> > > like him?
> >
> > There have been times when I've liked him - times when I've thought
> Grayson
> > turned in a decent performance. But yesterday was just the bottom of
the
> > barrell for me. Grayson is awful. The character is awful. I want them
> both
> > gone because this is the ONLY thing that isn't working for me on ATWT
> right
> > now - which makes it all the more annoying!
> >
> > SarahE
>
> I am so damn annoyed and disgusted at Dusty and Lilly right now. They were
> so hell bent on destroying Paul without concrete facts, oh, and Dusty
> getting the analysis on Paul's computer from "a friend in the department".
> They just want to fry someone and Paul is an easy target. They have ruined
> Lilly,
At least Lily had the good graces to apologize. Dusty continued his in your
face ranting. I truly hate him - and definitely not in a "love to hate"
kind of way. I hate Craig to but don't want to see either the character or
the actor gone. I am just sick of Grayson AND Dusty at this point.
SarahE
Niki
> There have been times when I've liked him - times when I've thought
Grayson
> turned in a decent performance. But yesterday was just the bottom of the
> barrell for me. Grayson is awful. The character is awful. I want them
both
> gone because this is the ONLY thing that isn't working for me on ATWT
right
> now - which makes it all the more annoying!
You knew I was going to respond didn't you ?! LOL ! I hate Dusty as
portrayed by GMcC. I HATE that Dusty has been ruined, completely character
assasinated by this really horrible, terrible, mobster incarnation. I have
nothing good to say about this actor (I've not seen him anywhere else and
do not want to; not even a commercial for bad broadband), I have nothing
good to say about the absolute, total belittlement and 180º in character
change. I so want the old Dusty back, aka Brian Bloom. If not, banishment
to Grayson. He sucks in this role, he sucks as Dusty. He sucks so bad, I
wouldn't even think of picking him up on the street for a quickie. LOL!
Niki
> > > There have been times when I've liked him - times when I've thought
> > > Grayson turned in a decent performance. But yesterday was just the
bottom of
> the barrell for me. Grayson is awful. The character is awful. I want
them
> > both gone because this is the ONLY thing that isn't working for me on
ATWT
> > right now - which makes it all the more annoying!
Oh my saviour ! Thank you SarahE !!! I hate the guy too and it's turning me
against the whole soap because of HIM ! I want Jack to pop him in his
mouth, knock him dead and tell him to get the hell out of the station and
wherever it is he's at the time that he always seems to feel so free to
spout off how the case should be run and his always in your face comments
about how guilty Paul is (whom I do not like either btw), but Dusty is just
more annoying at this point. He's NOT Dusty. He should have been introduced
as a new character. NO ifs, ands or buts about it. But when tptb finally
decide to slay him, I will NOT cry.
Sarah Estell
"Niki" <n...@n.tv> wrote in message
news:K6jPb.16533$372....@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
>I so want the old Dusty back, aka Brian Bloom. If not, banishment
> to Grayson. He sucks in this role, he sucks as Dusty. He sucks so bad, I
> wouldn't even think of picking him up on the street for a quickie. LOL!
Well now that is harsh! A quickie with Grayson probably wouldn't be all
bad, Niki! But as for wanting Brian Bloom back, I don't really. It is the
character I dislike and Grayson seems to up the ante on the rottenness of
the character by his over-the-top thuggish portrayal of a guy who we know
was RAISED BY A GENTLE HORSE TRAINER!!! Sorry.....I didn't mean to
yell.....
SarahE
Niki
> Well now that is harsh! A quickie with Grayson probably wouldn't be all
> bad, Niki! But as for wanting Brian Bloom back, I don't really. It is
the
> character I dislike and Grayson seems to up the ante on the rottenness of
> the character by his over-the-top thuggish portrayal of a guy who we know
> was RAISED BY A GENTLE HORSE TRAINER!!! Sorry.....I didn't mean to
> yell.....
Grayson just does nothing for me. I find him repugnant. Dusty has
absolutely been slaughtered. It's too late for anyone to save him. I still
remember sweet Dusty. I so had a crush on him then. Hopefully if ATWT is
dropping annoying characters, he'll be the next to go. I don't blame you
for yelling. Dusty would NEVER have turned out like this.
Niki
> You raised an interesting point, though. If TPTB were really, really,
> really intent on portraying Dusty the way that they have (and I guess
> they are, otherwise they would have portrayed him in a different
> light), I'm also VERY glad Brian Bloom isn't around to play the dreck
> that Grayson's playing. I wouldn't want a GOOD actor such as Bloom to
> have to suffer through playing the dreck that the subpar actor Grayson
> McCouch is playing.
Amen Cory ! Good point when you put it like that. I just wonder had Brian
Bloom come back, would he have been written this way too?
Sarah Estell
He would probably have been written this way but I cannot see how he would
possibly have been portrayed (ore "recreated" as they say on GL) as a common
street thug.
SarahE
Niki
> He would probably have been written this way but I cannot see how he
would
> possibly have been portrayed (ore "recreated" as they say on GL) as a
common
> street thug.
I just still can't even fathom what tptb were thinking when bringing back
Dusty like "this".
Barbara Wolfe
Wasn't Dusty related to Gunnar Stenbeck somehow,
someway?
Barbara
Niki
> Wasn't Dusty related to Gunnar Stenbeck somehow,
> someway?
Yup. He was his biological father. Here's the whole story:
http://www.soapcentral.com/atwt/whoswho/dustin.php
Niki
> "The fans bitch incessantly about us bringing back old favorites of
> theirs. We need a hoodlum/bad guy in Oakdale to stir things up. Why
> not kill two birds with one stone, bring back Dusty and give him a
> personality transplant and make HIM the hood/bad guy? The fans won't
> care that Dusty's the hood/bad guy, because they'll be giddy about the
> fact that he's just *back*... period... or more to the point, WE won't
> care if the long-term fans give a damn if we assassinate Dusty or not,
> because WE are trying to bring in NEW fans and the long-term fans be
> damned."
>
> There... how's that for an answer??
Um. Ok. I think I hear some sarcasm in there... :-)
Sarah Estell
"Barbara Wolfe" <bevgra...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:400f12c9$0$2414$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
Gunnar was his biological father. He was raised by a man named Burke
Donovan (that guy was hot, hot, hot!).
SarahE
Doug M. Thorsen
wrote:
Lily can certainly be redeemed because, as you say, she did have the
good graces to apologize for her actions....plus, she can almost be
forgiven, too, because she did it more out of grief and wanting
justice done in her sister's death. I don't believe Dusty cares as
much about justice for Rose as he does pinning a murder on Paul, his
mortal enemy (Paul has more reason to hate Dusty than the other way
around).
Dusty has ZERO remorse about ANYTHING which is why, IMO, he can never
be redeemed. He's an arrogant SOB who struts around like some mobster
wannabe (which he will never be).
Craig, on the other hand, who can certainly be ruthless and all, is
still likeable because he does have a 'good' side to him. We see this
side, for example, when he's with Parker (granted, it's been a very
long time, but do you remember how he was with Parker when Rosanna
first came back and was going to take Parker away from Carly). Craig
is just a much more complex, well developed character than Dusty, it
seems to me we can more easily overlook Craig's many shortcomings
because we have gotten to know and care about him.
All in all, I still think it's a shame that they killed off Rose when
there were so many other characters deserving of that fate.
Niki
> Niki wrote:
> > Um. Ok. I think I hear some sarcasm in there... :-)
> Really?? Where??
> ;-P
See, I knew it ! lol
DonnaB
<210120042321275133%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> In article <9DGPb.97573$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, Sarah Estell
> <est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> > Gunnar was his biological father. He was raised by a man named Burke
> > Donovan (that guy was hot, hot, hot!).
>
> Man, do I *ever* miss him on SoapCenter (on SoapNet, for the clueless)!
Hot Hot Hot = David Forsythe who was on SEARCH, OLTL, AMC and spent
years on AW as Dr. John Hudson ...
And, Dusty was no angel when he was in Oakdale as a teen.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
"JR, until I get this project launched why don't you just think of me as a man?" - Lesley "You gotta be kidding?!" - JR "As a soft man?" - Lesley Stuart, DALLAS, 1981, played by Susan Flannery.
DonnaB
<220120041147386522%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> OK, that's true, but at the same time, Dusty was hardly the skank he is
> today as played by Grayson (and yes, FTR, I know that how Dusty is
> today isn't really Grayson's fault)
No, he wasn't. But, it was 20 years ago.
> BTW, my newsreader stripped your sig., but I didn't know that SF was
> on DALLAS once upon a time. I must have missed that storyline. ;-)
I didn't realize she was either & loved it when she suddenly had an
arc going. I guess this is Season 3. She was a publicist who worked
for JR & then tried to 'get' him & then moved on.
FWIW, my sig is designed to strip out intentionally. If you begin your
sig with 'dash dash space' and nothing else on that line, then it will
be auto-stripped by most newsreaders. Set up that way. To be able to
quote it you'd have to copy/paste manually. Which is what I have to do
when people have their sig pasted in at the top instead of moving it
to the bottom because for me their whole message falls below their
sig. <G>
DonnaB
<220120041339164218%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> In article <gt3010l6jo2s2qm63...@4ax.com>, DonnaB
> <shall...@rcn.com> wrote:
> > No, he wasn't. But, it was 20 years ago.
>
> True. Point taken, I guess, but the thing that bugs me about this
> incarnation is that we've had NO explanation for what's made Dusty turn
> from an innocent kid to the skank he is today.
From a kid who had as much of the devil in him as anyone else &
possibly a little more ... to a bitter cynical man.
> > > BTW, my newsreader stripped your sig., but I didn't know that SF was
> > > on DALLAS once upon a time. I must have missed that storyline. ;-)
> >
> > I didn't realize she was either & loved it when she suddenly had an
> > arc going. I guess this is Season 3. She was a publicist who worked
> > for JR & then tried to 'get' him & then moved on.
>
> I started watching DALLAS when I was a kid when J.R. got shot. I've
> got no idea what season that happened in.
That was at the end, cliffhanger, of last season, which I think was
Season 2.
> > Set up that way. To be able to quote it you'd have to copy/paste manually.
> > Which is what I have to do when people have their sig pasted in at the top
> > instead of moving it to the bottom because for me their whole message falls
> > below their sig. <G>
>
> I don't understand why people put their sigs. on top of their posts,
> but whatever... to each his own.
Usually they don't understand what's going on.
Melba33 Melba33
that he still cares for Lily and Rose was the next best thing...n
appearance anyway
Sarah Estell
message board browsing to see where I could find some Dusty fans. There are
a small number of them out there (though there may be more and they are just
afraid to buck the trend and say so), but by and large, the venom posted
about this character and the actor is some of the most horrendous I've seen
in my years online.
The two others that come to mind on ATWT are Connor/Susan Battan and
Molly/Lesli Kay (during the early days when she was drugging Holden and
lying about him assaulting her). Dusty and Grayson McCouch are at that
level of hatred, IMO.
Battan didn't survive for long and Connor was written off. Lesli Kay
survived when Molly was paired with Jake and redeemed through a fun and
entertaining romance, and after being victimized by the girl we loved to
hate at the time, Katie. I think she may also have taken some acting
lessons - or perhaps working with Tom Eplin helped her out a bit.
So what will be the fate of McCouch and Dusty? Will he go the way of Battan
and be summarily dismissed at some point? Or will he be redeemed in some
way? If Dusty is to be the foil in the Lily/Holden relationship, I have a
hard time seeing how that will redeem him. OTOH, I do think that Hogan
likes to take these characters down, down, down to where you think they
can't be any more despicable, and then take them lower. I think it's like a
game of chicken for him - how bad can they be before he can jerk them to
safety?
So what does everyone predict for Dusty? I admit my preference is that
McCouch get the Battan treatment and have his character written off to live
a horrible life with a vapid airhead who is an even worse actor than he is.
I am so looking forward to Grayson's time off and plan to write TPTB and
tell them how much more enjoyable Oakdale is without him in it.
SarahE
Niki
> So what will be the fate of McCouch and Dusty? Will he go the way of
Battan
> and be summarily dismissed at some point? Or will he be redeemed in some
> way?
I hope tptb take advantage of his time off and write him out permanently
and that he *never, ever* returns.
Sarah
>
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:47:38 -0600 in Msg.#
> <220120041147386522%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
>
> > OK, that's true, but at the same time, Dusty was hardly the skank he is
> > today as played by Grayson (and yes, FTR, I know that how Dusty is
> > today isn't really Grayson's fault)
>
> No, he wasn't. But, it was 20 years ago.
I am willing to buy a person's behavior changes in twenty years, but not
the way he speaks, walks, and generally moves. It isn't just how Grayson
is playing Dusty, it is in the fact that he thought Paul was his best
friend, his soft spot for Lily was practically non-existent, his
connection to John and Babs were warped or ignored (he made that whole
speech the other day about Hal technically being Paul's stepfather, and
all I could think of was, "YOU ARE BABS' stepson you idiot!!!"), and all
of the sudden he grew up around Snyder farm. All of this destroyed Dusty
and who he was. It goes a LOT farther than him just being a jerk.
Craig's a jerk, but the essence of Craig, even with the crap he pulled
with Lucinda was not the lost he way it was with Dusty. People do change
in twenty years, but I've seen no evidence, actual souls can be stolen
and replaced.
sarah
"sarah says" - The Serial Bowl for the new millenium
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/16094
Sarah
>
> After the scenes in the police department earlier this week, I did a little
> message board browsing to see where I could find some Dusty fans. There are
> a small number of them out there (though there may be more and they are just
> afraid to buck the trend and say so),
I know a few Dusty fans, although it does seem their loyalty is on a
_very_ shallow level, i.e., "he looked so hot tearing into Paul", etc.
It's sickening. But I do know a few, but I'm not sure they can even
share why.
> but by and large, the venom posted
> about this character and the actor is some of the most horrendous I've seen
> in my years online.
>
> The two others that come to mind on ATWT are Connor/Susan Battan and
> Molly/Lesli Kay (during the early days when she was drugging Holden and
> lying about him assaulting her). Dusty and Grayson McCouch are at that
> level of hatred, IMO.
Dusty is worse to my mind because he had been liked. Molly was new and I
never liked Connor, to me a rather pointless character just became a lot
stupider.
> Battan didn't survive for long and Connor was written off. Lesli Kay
> survived when Molly was paired with Jake and redeemed through a fun and
> entertaining romance, and after being victimized by the girl we loved to
> hate at the time, Katie. I think she may also have taken some acting
> lessons - or perhaps working with Tom Eplin helped her out a bit.
>
> So what will be the fate of McCouch and Dusty? Will he go the way of Battan
> and be summarily dismissed at some point? Or will he be redeemed in some
> way? If Dusty is to be the foil in the Lily/Holden relationship, I have a
> hard time seeing how that will redeem him. OTOH, I do think that Hogan
> likes to take these characters down, down, down to where you think they
> can't be any more despicable, and then take them lower. I think it's like a
> game of chicken for him - how bad can they be before he can jerk them to
> safety?
When will he save Barbara? I'm serious! I want my old Babs back and I
don't care how they do it, I'm not mad at her, I want her back to
normal!
> So what does everyone predict for Dusty? I admit my preference is that
> McCouch get the Battan treatment and have his character written off to live
> a horrible life with a vapid airhead who is an even worse actor than he is.
> I am so looking forward to Grayson's time off and plan to write TPTB and
> tell them how much more enjoyable Oakdale is without him in it.
I want to see Dusty gone, but only because I don't trust Hogan. Hogan's
not going to change Dusty's personality, just make it more acceptable
(i.e. Carly, Craig) and having him wormed into stories where he doesn't
really belong will just drive me insane! I don't think the writing for
Dusty is as bad as Connor's was, but I just think Grayson and Hogan are
a lethal team. One of them would have to go and I'd rather it be
Grayson.
DonnaB
> Sarah Estell wrote:
> >
> > After the scenes in the police department earlier this week, I did a little
> > message board browsing to see where I could find some Dusty fans. There are
> > a small number of them out there (though there may be more and they are just
> > afraid to buck the trend and say so),
>
> I know a few Dusty fans, although it does seem their loyalty is on a
> _very_ shallow level, i.e., "he looked so hot tearing into Paul", etc.
> It's sickening. But I do know a few, but I'm not sure they can even
> share why.
I believe that there are a great many more Dusty fans that you're
thinking. They typically just aren't posting or arguing when everyone
else gets going over & over. Or if they do, they say it once & move
on. Plus, a great deal of the anti-Dusty chatter sounds suspiciously
just like what one should think & feel about a gray character who is
pushing the boundaries as a big time bad boy part of the time & not at
others. Paul, who has done heinous things, is coming off to some fans
as a lily white hero, which he's not. Both characters are meant to be
more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
best illustration of them in a long long time.
And, all 3 - Craig, Paul & Dusty - share in common their cynicism,
just shaded differently in how & why they show it.
Cyndi Glass
You forgot, "Plus, what a piece of ass!"
--
NOTE: This account is set to no-mail Use mdbfanATyahooDOTcom to reply
-----------"What about second breakfast?" ---Pippin, LOTR----------
Cyndi Glass
Sarah Estell <est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>So what does everyone predict for Dusty? I admit my preference is that
>McCouch get the Battan treatment and have his character written off to live
k
Wash the hair, ditch the accent, and write him a dash of humility and
decency once in a while. The character's boring, and the actor is choosing
to play him as a walking stereotype.
Niki
> I am willing to buy a person's behavior changes in twenty years, but not
> the way he speaks, walks, and generally moves. It isn't just how Grayson
> is playing Dusty, it is in the fact that he thought Paul was his best
> friend, his soft spot for Lily was practically non-existent, his
> connection to John and Babs were warped or ignored (he made that whole
> speech the other day about Hal technically being Paul's stepfather, and
> all I could think of was, "YOU ARE BABS' stepson you idiot!!!"), and all
> of the sudden he grew up around Snyder farm. All of this destroyed Dusty
> and who he was. It goes a LOT farther than him just being a jerk.
> Craig's a jerk, but the essence of Craig, even with the crap he pulled
> with Lucinda was not the lost he way it was with Dusty. People do change
> in twenty years, but I've seen no evidence, actual souls can be stolen
> and replaced.
You nailed it Sarah. Had GMcC been introduced as a new character, it would
have made more sense than slaughtering yet one more beloved character. In
the back of my mind, I'll always think of him as "Dirty" and always
remember Brian Bloom's rendition of Dusty so as to save wear and tear on
the mental faculties. I think in all my years of watching CBS soaps, I've
*never* seen such a botch job on a character.
Niki
> Wash the hair, ditch the accent, and write him a dash of humility and
> decency once in a while. The character's boring, and the actor is
choosing
> to play him as a walking stereotype.
You're right but at this point, I don't even want a cleaned up version of
GMcC. I just want him gone.
Niki
> You missed Susan Batten's assassination of Connor, then??? It may not
> have been any worse than MADD, et al.'s, assassination of Dusty, but
> yeah, IMHO, it was pretty damn close to that.
Yeah I saw that, unfortunately. For some reason though, it doesn't bother
me near as bad as the one with Dusty. Of course I didn't have a crush on
Allison Rice-Taylor and she didn't have those gorgeous baby blues that
Brian Bloom does. ;-) I think the Connor slaughter was just a really badly
chosen actress for the part whereas Dusty's is that too plus he's a
completely different character altogether. Oh my beloved Dusty, my <3
aches.
> *meow*
Right on !
Barbara Wolfe
Niki <n...@n.tv> wrote:
>
>
>>You nailed it Sarah. Had GMcC been introduced as a new character, it would
>>have made more sense than slaughtering yet one more beloved character. In
>>the back of my mind, I'll always think of him as "Dirty" and always
>>remember Brian Bloom's rendition of Dusty so as to save wear and tear on
>>the mental faculties. I think in all my years of watching CBS soaps, I've
>>*never* seen such a botch job on a character.
>
>
> have been any worse than MADD, et al.'s, assassination of Dusty, but
> yeah, IMHO, it was pretty damn close to that.
>
>
Actually, Cory, I think the Connor fiasco was MUCH worse
in that the character was destroyed virtually overnight and right
in front of us. At least we can hypothesize some explanations for
Dusty's personality transplant because he was offscreen for so
many years. Connor happened like a bad train wreck we were forced
to watch.
There must be something wrong with me: I dislike Dusty
because of who he is - I never compare him to Brian Bloom because
Bloom has been gone for years and years. I don't expect an actor
to be like another one when a decade has gone by - it doesn't work
like that for me, thank heavens.. One is one and the other is
another and I am very happy that my brain is wired this way; it
sure saves me a bunch of angst and annoyance. On the other hand,
I end up screaming at the TV all the time because of things like
Barbara's bizarre behavior and the lack of proper response to it.
Barbara
Barbara Wolfe
That's what I thought. So a case could be made
for Dusty and Barbara and Paul etc. being family, another
interesting sidelight to the story that has been ignored.
Barbara
Sarah Estell
> Cory wrote:
> Niki <n...@n.tv> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You nailed it Sarah. Had GMcC been introduced as a new character, it
would
> >>have made more sense than slaughtering yet one more beloved character.
In
> >>the back of my mind, I'll always think of him as "Dirty" and always
> >>remember Brian Bloom's rendition of Dusty so as to save wear and tear on
> >>the mental faculties. I think in all my years of watching CBS soaps,
I've
> >>*never* seen such a botch job on a character.
> >
> >
> > You missed Susan Batten's assassination of Connor, then??? It may not
> > have been any worse than MADD, et al.'s, assassination of Dusty, but
> > yeah, IMHO, it was pretty damn close to that.
> >
> > *meow*
> >
>
> Actually, Cory, I think the Connor fiasco was MUCH worse
> in that the character was destroyed virtually overnight and right
> in front of us.
I agree. We went from businesswoman Connor on Friday to blind cleaning
Connor on Monday. It was jarring to say the least. With Dusty, at least
we've had a decade+ in between.
[snipped]
> There must be something wrong with me: I dislike Dusty
> because of who he is - I never compare him to Brian Bloom because
> Bloom has been gone for years and years.
I don't either. I had wondered if TPTB asked Bloom to return (which they
did), but other than that, McCouch as Dusty was fine by me. Even when he
first returned to Oakdale, I was pretty OK with him. Didn't think he was the
next Academy Award winner by any means, but OK.
It is the character of Dusty - as written currently, and Grayson's
interpretation of him that I despise.
SarahE
Sarah
>
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:22:40 GMT in Msg.#
> <401059...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Sarah Estell wrote:
> > >
> > > After the scenes in the police department earlier this week, I did a little
> > > message board browsing to see where I could find some Dusty fans. There are
> > > a small number of them out there (though there may be more and they are just
> > > afraid to buck the trend and say so),
> >
> > I know a few Dusty fans, although it does seem their loyalty is on a
> > _very_ shallow level, i.e., "he looked so hot tearing into Paul", etc.
> > It's sickening. But I do know a few, but I'm not sure they can even
> > share why.
>
> I believe that there are a great many more Dusty fans that you're
> thinking.
I wasn't saying the ones I know are the only ones, just these are the
ones I know.
> They typically just aren't posting or arguing when everyone
> else gets going over & over.
Really? Die hard fans of characters I know always do that, you for
example _always_ speak up when Dusty is mentioned.
> Or if they do, they say it once & move
> on. Plus, a great deal of the anti-Dusty chatter sounds suspiciously
> just like what one should think & feel about a gray character who is
> pushing the boundaries as a big time bad boy part of the time & not at
> others. Paul, who has done heinous things, is coming off to some fans
> as a lily white hero, which he's not.
Really? Where? And the heinous thing he's done is dump Rose at the
altar. Dusty's gone far beyond that.
> Both characters are meant to be
> more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
> storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
> best illustration of them in a long long time.
Well then they are succeeding with Paul and failing with Dusty.
> And, all 3 - Craig, Paul & Dusty - share in common their cynicism,
> just shaded differently in how & why they show it.
Well Craig has won a few more fans than Dusty has over time, but I just
think Paul fits in the same category.
Sarah
>
> Cory wrote:
> Niki <n...@n.tv> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You nailed it Sarah. Had GMcC been introduced as a new character, it would
> >>have made more sense than slaughtering yet one more beloved character. In
> >>the back of my mind, I'll always think of him as "Dirty" and always
> >>remember Brian Bloom's rendition of Dusty so as to save wear and tear on
> >>the mental faculties. I think in all my years of watching CBS soaps, I've
> >>*never* seen such a botch job on a character.
> >
> >
> > You missed Susan Batten's assassination of Connor, then??? It may not
> > have been any worse than MADD, et al.'s, assassination of Dusty, but
> > yeah, IMHO, it was pretty damn close to that.
> >
> > *meow*
> >
>
> Actually, Cory, I think the Connor fiasco was MUCH worse
> in that the character was destroyed virtually overnight and right
> in front of us. At least we can hypothesize some explanations for
> Dusty's personality transplant because he was offscreen for so
> many years. Connor happened like a bad train wreck we were forced
> to watch.
Not to mention Connor went from strong woman, to Britney Spears bimbo.
Dusty may have become a thug, but that is something that can happen
within a period of a decade, Connor's change could NOT.
> There must be something wrong with me: I dislike Dusty
> because of who he is - I never compare him to Brian Bloom because
> Bloom has been gone for years and years.
I feel pretty much the same way.
Sarah
>
> In article <401059...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
> <snip... someone else asked first...>
> > > So what does everyone predict for Dusty? I admit my preference is that
> > > McCouch get the Battan treatment and have his character written off to live
> > > a horrible life with a vapid airhead who is an even worse actor than he is.
> > > I am so looking forward to Grayson's time off and plan to write TPTB and
> > > tell them how much more enjoyable Oakdale is without him in it.
> >
> > I want to see Dusty gone, but only because I don't trust Hogan. Hogan's
> > not going to change Dusty's personality, just make it more acceptable
> > (i.e. Carly, Craig) and having him wormed into stories where he doesn't
> > really belong will just drive me insane! I don't think the writing for
> > Dusty is as bad as Connor's was,
>
> pretty bad, yes. I'll grant you that in a heartbeat, but if you can't
> find this assassination of Dusty just as bad as Connor's, I think you
> need your head examined, with all due respect.
When Dusty is dusting blinds, then I'll agree. Until then, my main
problem with Dusty at this moment, is Grayson's delivery.
> > but I just think Grayson and Hogan are a lethal team. One of them
> > would have to go and I'd rather it be Grayson.
> >
> > sarah
>
> Honest to God, it would be a toss-up to me. I don't think Hogan's done
> ANYTHING *remotely* positive for ATWT, but then again, I don't think
> MADD's done a lot of positive things at P&G, either.
I'm just not quick to change writers since Hogan is one of the better of
the bunch. I also REALLY adored his early work and if he hadn't come
along when he did, ATWT might be fighting GL for first to be cancelled.
Grayson and Dusty, however, so far is a complete bust. He was definitely
not needed.
Niki
> That's what I thought. So a case could be made
> for Dusty and Barbara and Paul etc. being family, another
> interesting sidelight to the story that has been ignored.
You're right. Although I'm glad they didn't. But they could have at least
made some mention of it.
DonnaB
<V51Qb.55902$LW.4...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
<est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> "Barbara Wolfe" <bevgra...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:401093d0$0$3058$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> > Actually, Cory, I think the Connor fiasco was MUCH worse
> > in that the character was destroyed virtually overnight and right
> > in front of us.
>
> I agree. We went from businesswoman Connor on Friday to blind cleaning
> Connor on Monday. It was jarring to say the least. With Dusty, at least
> we've had a decade+ in between.
They bear no resemblance to one another at all! And, SarahE means that
Connor was cleaning the mini-blinds in her office, not that she had
gone blind from doing cleaning.
DonnaB
<4010D7...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> DonnaB wrote:
> > I believe that there are a great many more Dusty fans that you're
> > thinking.
>
> I wasn't saying the ones I know are the only ones, just these are the
> ones I know.
Yes, I knew you weren't trying to 'number the masses'. LOL And, it's
not just you by any means either.
> > They typically just aren't posting or arguing when everyone
> > else gets going over & over.
>
> Really? Die hard fans of characters I know always do that, you for
> example _always_ speak up when Dusty is mentioned.
Yes, really. But, I do not find that fans *always* do much of anything
& specifically in this case, I definitely do not find that fans always
speak up when they are in the quiet minority compared to the very
vocal majority. Me? You mean I speak up *eventually*? Because that's
the only way that would make sense. If you mean I *always* speak up
any time anyone is going at it about Dusty, I definitely do not.
> > Or if they do, they say it once & move
> > on. Plus, a great deal of the anti-Dusty chatter sounds suspiciously
> > just like what one should think & feel about a gray character who is
> > pushing the boundaries as a big time bad boy part of the time & not at
> > others. Paul, who has done heinous things, is coming off to some fans
> > as a lily white hero, which he's not.
>
> Really? Where? And the heinous thing he's done is dump Rose at the
> altar. Dusty's gone far beyond that.
Paul terrorized his fiance & then humiliated & degraded her & left her
at the altar. What one has done doesn't have to be one for one with
the other. But, when it comes to Rose, Paul's definitely in the lead.
I'm not sure what you're thinking of that Dusty has done that is worse
than what Paul did to Rose. Of course, Will did worse to Rose.
> > Both characters are meant to be
> > more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
> > storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
> > best illustration of them in a long long time.
>
> Well then they are succeeding with Paul and failing with Dusty.
Because you think Paul is not gray, that he's a hero? If so, I simply
disagree.
> > And, all 3 - Craig, Paul & Dusty - share in common their cynicism,
> > just shaded differently in how & why they show it.
>
> Well Craig has won a few more fans than Dusty has over time, but I just
> think Paul fits in the same category.
Huh? I'm sorry, is there a word missing. Do you mean that you don't
think Paul is cynical?
Sarah
Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
> > > Both characters are meant to be
> > > more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
> > > storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
> > > best illustration of them in a long long time.
> >
> > Well then they are succeeding with Paul and failing with Dusty.
>
> Because you think Paul is not gray, that he's a hero? If so, I simply
> disagree.
Huh, no I definitely think Paul is gray and my point is that writing is
clearly presenting Paul as gray, but they are failing that with Dusty.
I've NEVER thought of Paul as a hero, never even came into my head. He's
been a twisted, difficult piece of work since the mid-eighties and that
ain't going to change.
> > > And, all 3 - Craig, Paul & Dusty - share in common their cynicism,
> > > just shaded differently in how & why they show it.
> >
> > Well Craig has won a few more fans than Dusty has over time, but I just
> > think Paul fits in the same category.
>
> Huh? I'm sorry, is there a word missing. Do you mean that you don't
> think Paul is cynical?
Yeah a word is missing, it's this new keyboard, my backspace and my
delete are in different places now and I don't notice when I delete a
word.
Sarah Estell
"Sarah" <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:401173...@pacbell.net...
> DonnaB wrote:
> >
> > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:25:14 GMT in Msg.#
> > <4010D7...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > DonnaB wrote:
> >
> > Paul terrorized his fiance & then humiliated & degraded her & left her
> > at the altar. What one has done doesn't have to be one for one with
> > the other. But, when it comes to Rose, Paul's definitely in the lead.
> > I'm not sure what you're thinking of that Dusty has done that is worse
> > than what Paul did to Rose. Of course, Will did worse to Rose.
>
> Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
> be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
Do you mean Rose got all she DESERVED from Paul? Because I think Rose had
that coming to her and more at that point. And it was easy to see why Paul
would assume she had sex with Dusty, given that she spent weeks doing just
that - and part of the time when she was supposed to be engaged to Paul. Of
course I loved it when John Dixon did the same thing to Lisa, so what do I
know...
>
> > > > Both characters are meant to be
> > > > more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
> > > > storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
> > > > best illustration of them in a long long time.
> > >
> > > Well then they are succeeding with Paul and failing with Dusty.
> >
> > Because you think Paul is not gray, that he's a hero? If so, I simply
> > disagree.
>
> Huh, no I definitely think Paul is gray and my point is that writing is
> clearly presenting Paul as gray, but they are failing that with Dusty.
> I've NEVER thought of Paul as a hero, never even came into my head. He's
> been a twisted, difficult piece of work since the mid-eighties and that
> ain't going to change.
Once again, I completely agree here. Paul IS being written as gray. Dusty
IS being written as BAD, period. I find nothing redeeming whatsoever about
Dusty. I feel no sympathy for him for losing Rose. With Paul, I do even
feel some sympathy for him because he has to live with the fact that A), he
was wrong about Rose *that particular time* and B) that she died thinking he
murdered her.
SarahE
DonnaB
<nffQb.105822$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
<est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> "Sarah" <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:401173...@pacbell.net...
> > Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
> > be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
>
> Do you mean Rose got all she DESERVED from Paul? Because I think Rose had
> that coming to her and more at that point.
I was wondering if that was what she meant, too, keyboard benefit of
the doubt, .... But, there is NO WAY that Rose deserved what she got
from Paul. Forget that. Being terrorized by your fiance?! Being
degraded & humiliated by him at the altar?
> > Huh, no I definitely think Paul is gray and my point is that writing is
> > clearly presenting Paul as gray, but they are failing that with Dusty.
> > I've NEVER thought of Paul as a hero, never even came into my head. He's
> > been a twisted, difficult piece of work since the mid-eighties and that
> > ain't going to change.
>
> Once again, I completely agree here. Paul IS being written as gray. Dusty
> IS being written as BAD, period. I find nothing redeeming whatsoever about
> Dusty. I feel no sympathy for him for losing Rose. With Paul, I do even
> feel some sympathy for him because he has to live with the fact that A), he
> was wrong about Rose *that particular time* and B) that she died thinking he
> murdered her.
Well, at the very least, I am glad that the two of you are not
currently seeing Paul as a hero. That's got me about as torqued off as
I can get - in people who are there. Although they may be the
equivalents of the WHOA DUSTY GREAT ASS people referred to here
earlier. God only knows there are more of them for Howarth than for
McCouch. (I enjoy both actors. They are both very talented & are
delivering exactly what's being written - gray characters who are well
motivated. Even though I can see Dusty's motivation better than I can
see Paul's.)
Niki
> But, there is NO WAY that Rose deserved what she got
> from Paul.
Sure she did. She deserved it all and more. She vacillated between Paul and
Dirty for months, playing them both like the horny violins they are. She
agreed to marry both at different times and never could decide which mug
she wanted. She slept with both all the while still "loving" the other. She
thought about each as she was screwing the other. She was with Dirty on the
night before her wedding. She was a true skanky, nasty, ho. I personally
loved it when she fell like an overheated marshmallow at the alter. She
went from a great, interesting character to pure sleeze, in what 3 years.
Total character change. I for one am glad she's gone and wish she'd
suffered MORE.
Niki
> Gee, Niki... don't hold back or anything. C'mon... tell us how you
> REALLY feel!!! ;-)
:-) Thank you Cory.
Anthony D. Langford
news:nffQb.105822$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Well, I don't feel sorry for either Paul or Dusty where Rose is concerned.
In that particular plotline, my only problem was deciding which character I
disliked the most. I don't think Paul or Dusty loved Rose. Dusty only
wanted her when she left him; when they were together, he treated her like
trash. Paul seemed more interested in Rose as a way to put the beat down on
his mother and on Dusty; he never trusted Rose, not that she deserved it.
And IMO, it there is no trust, then there's really no love. As for Rose
herself, she was in love with love. She had to have a man, any man, no
matter who it hurt, no matter how foolish it was and no matter how doomed
the relationship was going out of the gate. Though I grew to hate Rose
because of her wishy washiness, her selfishness and her lack of sensitivity
to anyone and everyone around her, it's too bad she couldn't have simply
left town and maybe return for periodic stints. But her death was really
the only way to end this farce of a love triangle and that is what I wanted
more than anything. Frankly, I'm most upset that Will was sacrificed as
part of this story (and the show already plans to recast and age the
character) and that Babs was once again made the villian, futher destroying
a character that I love so dearly.
--
Anthony D. Langford
Creator and Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Harvey R. Stone
"Anthony D. Langford" <anthony_d...@yahoo.comnospam> wrote in message
news:wNqQb.28124> > > ain't going to change.
> >
> . Frankly, I'm most upset that Will was sacrificed as
> part of this story (and the show already plans to recast and age the
> character) and that Babs was once again made the villian, futher
destroying
> a character that I love so dearly.
>
> --
> Anthony D. Langford
> Creator and Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
> http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
>
>
been friends, I wonder if he will also be aged?
Phyl
DonnaB
<230120042020093514%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> Don't kill me, gang, but I *loved* Rose. I'm a Lilden fan 110%, yes,
> but Martha's portrayal of Rose was some of the best stuff I'd seen
> from her in YEARS. The way Rose came to be may have been a total
> history rewrite, but I truly didn't give a sh*t. Lily, as much as I
> love her, needed a shot in the arm to get her to liven up a bit, and
> Rose gave it to her... and more.
I loved Rose, too. But, that has nothing to do with why I think Rose
didn't deserve being terrorized by Paul & then humiliated & degraded
at the altar. If you made what happened other people in that couple,
I'd still say that the one playing Rose's part in that relationship
dynamic didn't deserve what she got. Totally & completely out of
proportion!
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
"Alyson, we've been through a fire in a barn, we've run from the cops, we've been in jail, come on, compared to that, what is marriage? Gotta be cake." - Aaron Snyder, ATWT, 12-9-03
DonnaB
<240120041347252874%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> In article <06yQb.3142$JF3.111...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> Harvey R. Stone <hrstone@swbell..net> wrote:
> > and Paul
>
> Paul who??? Stenbeck???!!
>
> > are about the same age
>
> Paul Stenbeck is 24 years older than Luke, who was born in '95.
So, like, what's your point, Cory? In Oakdale isn't 24 years older
about the same age?
LOL
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
Barbara Wolfe
> In article <06yQb.3142$JF3.111...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> Harvey R. Stone <hrstone@swbell..net> wrote:
>
>
>>news:wNqQb.28124> > > ain't going to change.
>>
>>>. Frankly, I'm most upset that Will was sacrificed as
>>>part of this story (and the show already plans to recast and age the
>>>character) and that Babs was once again made the villian, futher
>>>destroying a character that I love so dearly.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Anthony D. Langford
>>>Creator and Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
>>>http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
>>
>>Since Lucus( Lily 's son)
>
>
> Luke's biological father is Damien Grimaldi.
>
>
>>and Paul
>
>
> Paul who??? Stenbeck???!!
Think Will, Cory, and it makes sense. Just a typo,
I bet, and not complete and total confusion.
Barbara
Harvey R. Stone
line together awhile back with the barn burning so if Will is to be aged it
seems possible that Luke could be aged.
Phyl
Sarah
>
> In article <06yQb.3142$JF3.111...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> Harvey R. Stone <hrstone@swbell..net> wrote:
>
> > news:wNqQb.28124> > > ain't going to change.
> > > >
> > > . Frankly, I'm most upset that Will was sacrificed as
> > > part of this story (and the show already plans to recast and age the
> > > character) and that Babs was once again made the villian, futher
> > > destroying a character that I love so dearly.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Anthony D. Langford
> > > Creator and Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
> > > http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
> > Since Lucus( Lily 's son)
>
> Luke's biological father is Damien Grimaldi.
Picking a nit that isn't yours, it's the show's, it is Luc, NOT Luke.
Sarah
>
> In article <P2CQb.11198$qL1....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Harvey R.
> Stone <hrstone@swbell..net> wrote:
> > Thank you, Barbara, of course I meant Will and Luke.
>
> OK. Phew... I feel a LOT better now. Sorry if I sounded like a maniac
> (Sarahs, hush... Ian, you too ;-) ).
Honey, I wasn't gonna saying anything, honest ...
Sarah
>
> "Sarah" <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:401173...@pacbell.net...
> > DonnaB wrote:
> > >
> > > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:25:14 GMT in Msg.#
> > > <4010D7...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > DonnaB wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Paul terrorized his fiance & then humiliated & degraded her & left her
> > > at the altar. What one has done doesn't have to be one for one with
> > > the other. But, when it comes to Rose, Paul's definitely in the lead.
> > > I'm not sure what you're thinking of that Dusty has done that is worse
> > > than what Paul did to Rose. Of course, Will did worse to Rose.
> >
> > Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
> > be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
>
> Do you mean Rose got all she DESERVED from Paul?
Um yeah (sheepish grin), I honestly don't remember what I meant, but
that was probably it.
> Because I think Rose had
> that coming to her and more at that point. And it was easy to see why Paul
> would assume she had sex with Dusty, given that she spent weeks doing just
> that - and part of the time when she was supposed to be engaged to Paul. Of
> course I loved it when John Dixon did the same thing to Lisa, so what do I
> know...
Exactly, that was classic! Although at the time, I was totally siding
with Lisa, it was still a hoot to see that.
> >
> > > > > Both characters are meant to be
> > > > > more gray than most of the chatter is painting them but this is a
> > > > > storyline milepost where situational ethics are being shown in the
> > > > > best illustration of them in a long long time.
> > > >
> > > > Well then they are succeeding with Paul and failing with Dusty.
> > >
> > > Because you think Paul is not gray, that he's a hero? If so, I simply
> > > disagree.
> >
> > Huh, no I definitely think Paul is gray and my point is that writing is
> > clearly presenting Paul as gray, but they are failing that with Dusty.
> > I've NEVER thought of Paul as a hero, never even came into my head. He's
> > been a twisted, difficult piece of work since the mid-eighties and that
> > ain't going to change.
>
> Once again, I completely agree here. Paul IS being written as gray. Dusty
> IS being written as BAD, period. I find nothing redeeming whatsoever about
> Dusty. I feel no sympathy for him for losing Rose. With Paul, I do even
> feel some sympathy for him because he has to live with the fact that A), he
> was wrong about Rose *that particular time* and B) that she died thinking he
> murdered her.
Not to mention he did love her, he was really burned by her, he was
hurt, he lost faith in her love for him, he was tortured by it, he had
to deal with the parents from the seventh circle AND Dusty constantly
bugging Rose. I still don't buy Dusty loved Rose, he just felt he OWNED
her, he won, he didn't want the last minute upset and he fought to be
the winner again, at any cost, including Rose's life. I mean that is
evident in the way that after Will confessed Dusty twisted EVERYTHING
around so that he could still declare Paul was to blame. Somebody shut
him up!!!
I'm sorry Lily didn't stick to her guns and hold Dusty partially
responsible for Rose's death, he stirred the pot, he created this war,
if he hadn't sniffed around Rose after she made her choice, he wouldn't
have MADE himself right about Paul being out to get her. Instead she put
it all on Paul.
But the truth is, now with the Will aspect, Rose is partially to blame
for her own death by casting aside Will's feelings about the move and
being MORE than willing to leave the boy with the holy terror of a
mother.
Sarah
>
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:13:07 GMT in Msg.#
> <nffQb.105822$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
> <est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > "Sarah" <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:401173...@pacbell.net...
> > > Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
> > > be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
> >
> > Do you mean Rose got all she DESERVED from Paul? Because I think Rose had
> > that coming to her and more at that point.
>
> I was wondering if that was what she meant, too, keyboard benefit of
> the doubt, ....
So you think my keyboard explanation was bunk huh? Well in this case, I
just thought the word and didn't type it, not blaming the keyboard.
Happy?
> But, there is NO WAY that Rose deserved what she got
> from Paul. Forget that. Being terrorized by your fiance?! Being
> degraded & humiliated by him at the altar?
She degraded and humilated him first (and often).
Sarah
>
>
> Don't kill me, gang, but I *loved* Rose. I'm a Lilden fan 110%, yes,
> but Martha's portrayal of Rose was some of the best stuff I'd seen
> from her in YEARS. The way Rose came to be may have been a total
> history rewrite, but I truly didn't give a sh*t. Lily, as much as I
> love her, needed a shot in the arm to get her to liven up a bit, and
> Rose gave it to her... and more.
I didn't love Rose, but absolutely agree with what you are saying here.
Rose was a good move, but it was the overkill that made a good thing go
sour. I mean Rose died because Hogan admitted Lily eventually wasn't
just livened up, she was dwarfed and shoved into the background.
DonnaB
> DonnaB wrote:
> >
> > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:13:07 GMT in Msg.#
> > <nffQb.105822$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
> > <est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Sarah" <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > > news:401173...@pacbell.net...
> > > > Oh Dusty did nothing worse to Rose, I just meant in general. Although to
> > > > be fair, Rose got ALL she got from Paul AFAIC.
> > >
> > > Do you mean Rose got all she DESERVED from Paul? Because I think Rose had
> > > that coming to her and more at that point.
> >
> > I was wondering if that was what she meant, too, keyboard benefit of
> > the doubt, ....
>
> So you think my keyboard explanation was bunk huh? Well in this case, I
> just thought the word and didn't type it, not blaming the keyboard.
> Happy?
No, I didn't think it was bunk at all. I was indicating giving you the
benefit of the doubt. I mean, are you teasing me? Playing? I can't
tell.
> > But, there is NO WAY that Rose deserved what she got
> > from Paul. Forget that. Being terrorized by your fiance?! Being
> > degraded & humiliated by him at the altar?
>
> She degraded and humilated him first (and often).
Not at all to the same degree or in the same way. They had an
interpersonal relationship which Rose was in in good faith & Paul was
in in good faith & they were both humans & their relationship was
complicated. And, thank goodness since I'm all for drama on soaps!
Terrorizing your loved one & degrading & humiliating them at the altar
in the way Paul did is way way way over the line.
Basically we disagree about the appropriateness of Paul's actions.
But, this isn't the first time, and won't be the last, when I think
it's possible to see women being harder on women in soaps.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
DonnaB
<240120041705429406%seeker#@tds.net>, Cory <seeker#@tds.net> wrote:
> In article <P2CQb.11198$qL1....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Harvey R.
> Stone <hrstone@swbell..net> wrote:
>
> > "Barbara Wolfe" <bevgra...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> > news:4012e998$0$7332$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> > > >>Since Lucus( Lily 's son)
> > > >
> > > > Picking a nit... it's Luciano, and Lily and Holden call him Luke.
> > > > Luke's biological father is Damien Grimaldi.
> > > >
> > > >>and Paul
> > > >
> > > > Paul who??? Stenbeck???!!
> > >
> > > Think Will, Cory, and it makes sense. Just a typo,
> > > I bet, and not complete and total confusion.
> > >
> > Thank you, Barbara, of course I meant Will and Luke.
>
> OK. Phew... I feel a LOT better now. Sorry if I sounded like a maniac
> (Sarahs, hush... Ian, you too ;-) ).
I was with you. I didn't get that it was a typo for Will either. Makes
tons more sense now. Whew.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo: shallotpeel <*>
Anthony D. Langford
>From: Sarah sar...@pacbell.net
>Date: 1/24/04 7:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <401302...@pacbell.net>
Well, I know everyone is quick to blame Babs, but frankly Will was let down by
everyone in his life. Hal, Paul, Rose, Jen, Emily.... they all failed the poor
kid miserably. Paul, IMO, gets a big piece of the blame. He claimed to come
back to Oakdale to be there for Will and Jen, but dumped them both for a woman
who's feelings changed like the shades of lipstick she slathered on everyday.
Anthony D. Langford
Creator/Writer of Covington Bay --- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Anthony D. Langford
news:k5f61012ambqcn75i...@4ax.com...
Well, I thought what Paul did to Rose was pretty crappy. She didn't deserve
it... that time. However, if she had tried a little thing called telling
the truth, something she was unfamiliar with, the wedding would have went
forth. Yes, she'd still be dead, but at least she wouldn't have died with
that ugliness as a final memory. It was the first time I felt sorry for her
and it takes a lot for me to have had any sympathy for Rose. However, I'd
hardly call Paul and Rose in a relationship of good faith, especially Rose
in the days before the recast given her public affair with Dusty and her
shabby treatment of Paul. In the end, they both lied, kept secrets and
manipulated one another when necessary. They didn't trust one another (and
with good reason --- neither of them could/can be trusted) and eventually it
would have torn apart the relationship. Paul and Rose were doomed, IMO.
--
Anthony D. Langford
Creator and Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Sarah
>
> In article <401302...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
> <snip...>
>
> > just livened up, she was dwarfed and shoved into the background.
> >
> > sarah
>
> know that that wasn't the intent of TPTB, either.
Correct on both points.
Sarah
>
> >Subject: Re: ATWT/ Dusty
> >From: Sarah sar...@pacbell.net
> >Date: 1/24/04 7:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <401302...@pacbell.net>
<many snips>
> >But the truth is, now with the Will aspect, Rose is partially to blame
> >for her own death by casting aside Will's feelings about the move and
> >being MORE than willing to leave the boy with the holy terror of a
> >mother.
>
> Well, I know everyone is quick to blame Babs, but frankly Will was let down by
> everyone in his life. Hal, Paul, Rose, Jen, Emily.... they all failed the poor
> kid miserably. Paul, IMO, gets a big piece of the blame. He claimed to come
> back to Oakdale to be there for Will and Jen, but dumped them both for a woman
> who's feelings changed like the shades of lipstick she slathered on everyday.
I don't disagree with you, but the reason I mentioned Babs is because
Rose was still adamant about the leaving even when she learned Babs had
pressed Will to vandalize Paul's penthouse. She would talk down Babs,
wanted Paul away from her, but had NO interest in doing the same for
Will or even feeling an OUNCE of sympathy for him.
Sarah
This has nothing to do with me being harder on women on soaps, I'm
usually MUCH harder on men and loathe women who constantly are nasty to
women on soaps for every infraction (see my reactions to the Molly
bashing). This is as simple as the fact that Paul's actions, while not
right, are not something I'm willing to tar and feather him for. He was
hurt, he lashed out, and if you think Rose did ANYTHING in good faith, I
don't see how. They are both at fault, so is Dusty, so is Barbara, so is
Jennifer. They were ALL pathetic people that led to Rose's demise and
Rose getting dumped at the altar IMO isn't the tragedy you think it is.
Not because I didn't like her, or because I felt she had it coming
(which I happen to believe), but because dumping someone at the altar
happens. I don't find it cruel unless the _intent_ was always to string
someone along to humiliate them and it is CLEAR IMO, Paul thought about
it many times, but he really did want a life with Rose.
Cyndi Glass
Anthony, could you please trim more of the notes you are replying to?
Thanks.
--
NOTE: This account is set to no-mail Use mdbfanATyahooDOTcom to reply
-----------"What about second breakfast?" ---Pippin, LOTR----------
Donna Bridges
<10751514...@irys.nyx.net>, cgl...@nyx10.nyx.net (Cyndi Glass)
wrote:
> Anthony, could you please trim more of the notes you are replying to?
> Thanks.
It would be great if you would!
--
DonnaB 8^> New E-Mail at shall...@optonline.net <*>
"One of the few perks of being in hell: everybody smokes cigarettes - except TV executives & lawyers. They get to smoke Cuban cigars - for a job well done." - the ghost of Roger Smythe to Greenlee, AMC, 10-22-03