GL: Christmas Classic wow wow wow
Peter J.
Michelle, Ben. Eve. Fletcher. Nadine. Bridget. Alan-Michael. Maureen! The only
people I wasn't happy to see again were dishwater dull Julie and ill-defined,
boring Nick McHenry.
Anyone else mist up a bit when you saw Maureen again? GL has never been the
same without her.
Isn't it another sick joke so typical of life that out of such an exemplary,
superb cast, one of the only people left is the annoying-then-annoying-now
Lillian? How thrilling to see her writing the note that killed Maureen. I hate
her even more now :p
Kim
remote in hand and we get to see all of 3 sec of a tv show inless it a stupid
western or some dumb movie that we have seen over and over.
Wish I could have seen Mo would love to see her back on the show.. you know it a
soap and dead is never dead when it comes to this....
They brought ED back why can;t they bring mo back?
Jude The Obscure
"Peter J." <rhfan...@aol.comhatespam> wrote in message
news:20021225153405...@mb-fu.aol.com...
How observant that they picked this episode to run. A glaring reminder of
the big MISTAKE they made.
Erica
> Wish I could have seen Mo would love to see her back on the show.. you know it a
> soap and dead is never dead when it comes to this....
>
> They brought ED back why can;t they bring mo back?
>
After she died her organs were donated to other people. I don't think
even a soap could manage to bring her back. It wasn't one of those
fall-off-a-bridge soap deaths where they never find the body. :(
Erica
Peter J.
>
>How observant that they picked this episode to run. A glaring reminder of
>the big MISTAKE they made.
>
Yeah, I think that Maureen's importance was pumped to an even higher degree
around that time because she was about to die. Of course Mo was no saint, and
never claimed to be, but she was kind, caring, forgiving to even the town
pariahs, and in many ways the only moral force GL had at that time. When they
killed her they took that away, and they probably didn't even realize (or maybe
JFP did -- she loves darkness and dysfunction). All of the people left from her
age group have feet of clay, except maybe Ross, who seems to have diminished in
importance more and more the past few years. I had hoped that maybe Michelle or
Rick (with maturity) may have been able to take over Mo's mantle eventually,
but that has certainly been shot to hell this year.
What really burned me up in that Christmas episode was Lillian's delusional and
romanticized attitude regarding her one-nighter front seat adultery. Don't
judge it as dirty, I can understand that. But to bathe herself in candlelight
and then sashay over to the Bauer home and drop all these broad hints so that
Ed could later have his own Meaningful Moment (she pictured him sipping sherry
and weeping copiously at what was lost, I'm sure) was narcissistic and
laughable beyond belief. If she had just handed him that damn note, Maureen
would probably be alive today. Instead, she, just like her awful daughter, can
never be direct about anything from romance to the price of milk, and that's
why they are both bitter, lonely failures, tolerated at best by most of the
town.
Peter J.
>
>After she died her organs were donated to other people. I don't think
>even a soap could manage to bring her back. It wasn't one of those
>fall-off-a-bridge soap deaths where they never find the body. :(
>
They could find a way. They can always find a way. If they could bring James
Stenbeck back from the dead on ATWT, they could bring her back. But they won't.
Rthrquiet
>If she had just handed him that damn note, Maureen
>would probably be alive today.
Not with JFP, backed by "focus groups," determined to kill her one way or
another.
I give Curlee and company tremendous credit for finding a very dramatic exit
for Mo, given that I'm sure JFP insisted she had to go. But it was still a big,
big mistake. And I know it's easy to say that in hindsight, but geez, anybody
should have been able to see that at the time. (Oh, wait. This is JFP.)
It was a wonderful episode but I'll confess I did do the requisite hissing
during the credits when Jill's name rolled past. (Speaking of which, wasn't it
great to see *real* credits again for a change instead of squished-to-the-side
ones?)
Michael
Marlene Blanshay
rhfan...@aol.comhatespam (Peter J.) wrote:
I remember how pathetic lillian was- hounding ed about it. What did she
want him to do, dump his wife? I hated that whole romance because it
seemed so contrived. And how totally stupid can you get, leaving a note
like that in his kitchen?
Peter J.
>
>I remember how pathetic lillian was- hounding ed about it. What did she
>want him to do, dump his wife? I hated that whole romance because it
>seemed so contrived. And how totally stupid can you get, leaving a note
>like that in his kitchen?
It's schoolgirl fantasy, and pathetic. A complete contrast with the mature
woman manner she was desperately trying to pass off to Ed in the kitchen.
Tina Sloan (Lillian) said that GL actually planned to put Ed/Lillian together
and only the tsunami-sized backlash after Mo's death changed their minds. I can
see arrogant JFP smirking and rubbing her hands and putting all this together,
then cursing the fans when her ideas went up in ashes. The network or P&G must
have stepped in, because IF he had been put with Lillian as soon after Mo's
death as JFP likely originally intended, I honestly do not believe that GL
would be on the air today.
Erica
I'm afraid I've lost track of James Stenbeck's comings and goings. I
do know AMC managed to bring back a character who had died on screen
and been cremated. But why do you say that they won't bring Maureen
back?
Erica
Peter J.
>I'm afraid I've lost track of James Stenbeck's comings and goings. I
>do know AMC managed to bring back a character who had died on screen
>and been cremated. But why do you say that they won't bring Maureen
>back?
They could always bring her back. They brought Maureen's ghost back for guest
appearances. But I don't think they will ever resurrect Maureen, because she is
not what P&G sees as being important for their soaps. She isn't young, she
isn't a size 1, and she is connected to characters who are probably considered
past their prime.
Sarah
>
> > "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> >
> >How observant that they picked this episode to run. A glaring reminder of
> >the big MISTAKE they made.
> >
>
> Yeah, I think that Maureen's importance was pumped to an even higher degree
> around that time because she was about to die.
I was going to say this yesterday. It struck me how much HEAVY
foreshadowing there was in this episode, it almost hit you over the head
in retrospect. I was sitting there going, "oh" over and over again.
> What really burned me up in that Christmas episode was Lillian's delusional and
> romanticized attitude regarding her one-nighter front seat adultery.
Boy was that ever pathetic! I still can't believe after all this time,
she was DUMB enough to write that. Now we know where Lorelei got her
gift for writing tantalizing descriptions of lovers.
sarah
"sarah says" - The Serial Bowl for the new millenium
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/16094
Sarah
>
> rhfan...@aol.comhatespam (Peter J.) posted:
>
> >If she had just handed him that damn note, Maureen
> >would probably be alive today.
>
> Not with JFP, backed by "focus groups," determined to kill her one way or
> another.
>
> I give Curlee and company tremendous credit for finding a very dramatic exit
> for Mo, given that I'm sure JFP insisted she had to go. But it was still a big,
> big mistake. And I know it's easy to say that in hindsight, but geez, anybody
> should have been able to see that at the time. (Oh, wait. This is JFP.)
At the time I stood up for it (JFP's opinion that Mo had to go of
course) and in a way, I still do. There is nothing absolutely wrong with
established characters dying and I feel many soaps are crippled by
feeling the need to keep certain characters instead of having the guts
to really kill them off.
That said, it's clear to see Maureen was one of the cornerstones of this
show and when the show lost her, Peter, Michael, and others in quick
succession (along with Kim's return) it all fell off the rocker.
> It was a wonderful episode but I'll confess I did do the requisite hissing
> during the credits when Jill's name rolled past. (Speaking of which, wasn't it
> great to see *real* credits again for a change instead of squished-to-the-side
> ones?)
They had real credits for their Christmas episode, that was REALLY nice.
Peter J.
>
>
>At the time I stood up for it (JFP's opinion that Mo had to go of
>course) and in a way, I still do. There is nothing absolutely wrong with
>established characters dying and I feel many soaps are crippled by
>feeling the need to keep certain characters instead of having the guts
>to really kill them off.
>
>That said, it's clear to see Maureen was one of the cornerstones of this
>show and when the show lost her, Peter, Michael, and others in quick
>succession (along with Kim's return) it all fell off the rocker.
I think with proper story planning GL could have survived her departure.
Instead, they devoted far too much airtime in '93 to new characters or highly
questionable recasts (did anyone like Malibu Barbie Mindy, AKA Barbara
Crampton?). I remember 1993 as having way, way too much of Tangie, Jenna
(although I love Fiona Hutchinson), and Buzz. I know that it's considered
heresy to badmouth Justin Deas, but such a frenzied performance from a newbie 4
and 5 days a week was TOO MUCH (I blame JFP more for this than Justin). Add in
Harley's departure in mid-year and Lucy's arrival, along with Nancy Curlee's
departure, and 1994 was being set up as the year from hell. Aside from
Matt/Vanessa and the Vanessa/Bridget custody battle and maybe some of
Roger/Holly's storylines, I cannot remember anything good from 1994. And almost
every year since has been a continual decline.
Another exit that does not get as much attention but was as damaging in
different ways than Mo's death was Nadine's death. Not only was Nadine the
heart of the Cooper family and the excuse for why Frank and Harley had such
emotional problems, she was a constant source of humor and goofiness, while
being equally effective in drama. To have her not only written out, but
violently killed and dumped in the docks, was a betrayal of any sense of
humanity or decency. To this day I am still waiting for them to bring Nadine
back, because I think that she could at the very least rejuvenate the sad-sack
Cooper family.
Jude The Obscure
Another thing that was nice to see was the FULL opening credits of the last
(previous) theme. I especially love that last part of where Harley is
dancing.....hee hee
Darn
>From: "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net
>Date: 12/26/02 8:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <6ZNO9.13865$p_6.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>Another thing that was nice to see was the FULL opening credits of the last
>(previous) theme. I especially love that last part of where Harley is
>dancing.....hee hee
>
Me too (regarding Harley dancing), that's the first time I've seen it.
Darn
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/ijsbb/forum.cgi?action=list&forum=489
http://pub18.ezboard.com/bsoapslut
http://www.generalshmospital.com/
http://dimwitt.tripod.com/snark.html
http://whoswhoinsalem.com/main/
Jude The Obscure
"Darn" <chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20021226205715...@mb-fa.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
> >From: "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net
> >Date: 12/26/02 8:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <6ZNO9.13865$p_6.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> >
> >
> >Another thing that was nice to see was the FULL opening credits of the
last
> >(previous) theme. I especially love that last part of where Harley is
> >dancing.....hee hee
> >
>
> Me too (regarding Harley dancing), that's the first time I've seen it.
>
> Darn
>
LOL
so saaaaaaaaaaaaad :)
I also love the music WAY more than the current theme.
Anthony D. Langford
>Date: 12/26/02 8:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20021226205715...@mb-fa.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
>>From: "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net
>>Date: 12/26/02 8:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <6ZNO9.13865$p_6.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>
>>
>>Another thing that was nice to see was the FULL opening credits of the last
>>(previous) theme. I especially love that last part of where Harley is
>>dancing.....hee hee
>>
>
>Me too (regarding Harley dancing), that's the first time I've seen it.
>
I liked that too. Does anybody recall when/where that scene took place?
Anthony D. Langford
Creator and Writer of Covington Bay--An Online Soap Opera
Check it out at: http://www.covingtonbay.com
Anthony D. Langford
>course) and in a way, I still do. There is nothing absolutely wrong with
>established characters dying and I feel many soaps are crippled by
>feeling the need to keep certain characters instead of having the guts
>to really kill them off.
>
I don't think there's anything wrong with killing of anyone. But, there are
some characters who are vital to the core of the show. I feel Mo was that and
even today her presence is missed. Sometimes I feel like GL 'jumped the shark'
when she died. When you bump off characters like that, you need to have a
damned good reason. The reason for Mo's death wasn't good enough for me.
Jude The Obscure
"Anthony D. Langford" <alang...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021226211753...@mb-ci.aol.com...
> >
>
> I don't think there's anything wrong with killing of anyone. But, there
are
> some characters who are vital to the core of the show. I feel Mo was that
and
> even today her presence is missed. Sometimes I feel like GL 'jumped the
shark'
> when she died. When you bump off characters like that, you need to have a
> damned good reason. The reason for Mo's death wasn't good enough for me.
>
to "die" and come back...twice; this time she is simply being sent off to
prison, where I'm sure when the writers are bored and can't think of any new
plot twists, will say "Let's bring back Carmen", yet we have to be realistic
and accept there is no plausible way to bring back Maureen--PTOOEY!!
Sarah
>
> >At the time I stood up for it (JFP's opinion that Mo had to go of
> >course) and in a way, I still do. There is nothing absolutely wrong with
> >established characters dying and I feel many soaps are crippled by
> >feeling the need to keep certain characters instead of having the guts
> >to really kill them off.
> >
>
> I don't think there's anything wrong with killing of anyone. But, there are
> some characters who are vital to the core of the show.
I loved Mo, honestly. I grew to love her more after the recast which
always surprised me because I was VERY ticked she was being recast (and
the classic episode reminded me how well Parker emulated Dolan's
Maureen). But since I was watching this show LONG before she ever showed
up, I just don't consider her a core. Vital to the show's canvas as it
was in the 90s, absolutely. But not a core character.
But make no mistake, I would have rather they killed off Alan or someone
else than Maureen. Heck, if they wanted to get rid of Zaslow, I would
have rather they killed off Roger than Maureen (although when wouldn't
get that LOVELY grave scene).
> I feel Mo was that and
> even today her presence is missed.
Of course it is, I wouldn't dare say otherwise. But what I think we
really miss is what she represents; a drastic change in storytelling on
GL. Let's be serious, would Maureen be ANYTHING like she was back then
after Rauch messed with her. We would have suffered through Maureen
approving Danny or some dreck like that or Maureen going crazy after
Ed's affair, or losing her memory, or falling in love with a SC resident
or something. Everyday I'm thankful she died with her personality in
place. If only the same could be said for the rest ...
> Sometimes I feel like GL 'jumped the shark'
> when she died.
See above.
> When you bump off characters like that, you need to have a
> damned good reason. The reason for Mo's death wasn't good enough for me.
You mean JFP's reason? I don't disagree with that, she had no really
clear reason for her death and she certainly didn't need to die for her
beloved Ed/Lillain romance.
But needing a good reason to kill off a character, I disagree. Death
happens, soaps shield us from that more than any other genre. Or at
least, they have in the last twenty years or so. Before that, people
would die at the drop of a hat! I think the show could have survived
Maureen's death if it had been in better hands afterward. Sure, you can
miss her, that's what happens when people die, but you don't need a
reason. Part of life, is the end of it.
Sarah
I couldn't agree more Peter! THIS is what killed GL, executives lack of
respect for long time characters. One major character can die, sure. But
killing off or taking the focus away from so many main characters only
set us up for some of the most diseased soap characters ever created,
from Tangie all the way up to Catalina. If family, friends, and hearth
had still be the focus of the show, writers and producers wouldn't have
splintered so many of them apart and then acted like it didn't matter.
Golden...@webtv.net
So who the hell- and why the hell- was it changed??? Somebody assault
CBS or Procter & Gable with an email deluge (which should have been done
when it was first changed, IMO). The fans and audience letting them get
away with murder ( and yes, including Nadine) is why GL is in such sorry
shape today.
Lynne726
away with murder ( and yes, including Nadine) is why GL is in such sorry
Lots of viewers did not let them get away with murder. They quit watching. But
TPTB didn't seem to notice, or care.
Peter J.
>
>Of course it is, I wouldn't dare say otherwise. But what I think we
>really miss is what she represents; a drastic change in storytelling on
>GL. Let's be serious, would Maureen be ANYTHING like she was back then
>after Rauch messed with her. We would have suffered through Maureen
>approving Danny or some dreck like that or Maureen going crazy after
>Ed's affair, or losing her memory, or falling in love with a SC resident
>or something. Everyday I'm thankful she died with her personality in
>place. If only the same could be said for the rest ...
The what if situations are so confusing/fascinating, because I really do wonder
if Rauch ever would have been forced upon GL if not for Maureen's death. A
large amount of fans quit after Maureen died, and those that stayed were
outraged. JFP pinned the blame on Nancy Curlee and Nancy was gone within 6
months, IIRC. Then Jill started dipping her nasty claws more and more into the
bedrock of GL, having writers who were either not strong enough to be
headwriter, or simply not that strong.
If Maureen had lived, if Nancy had stayed, would GL's ratings have been strong
enough to withstand the coming onslaught of the mid-90's? Would P&G not have
hired Megan McTavish, and later Paul Rauch?
So many events can be traced back to Mo's death. I think that's why her death
sticks in the craws of many of us to this day. I am *all* for killing off
longtime characters who serve no purpose (I can name a busload of them on AMC),
but when Maureen died, and in such an ugly way, GL seemed to be saying, "we
don't care about the fans, we don't care about regular people, we don't care
about kindness or warmth". Irna Phillips used to do this type of thing back in
her day, to shock viewers and remind them they were in her universe, but
viewers were more patient back then, *had* to be more patient. Maureen in the
radio days of soaps would have been one of a plethora of wise matriarchs.
Maureen in 1992 was of a dying breed, and to actually see her die was such a
slap in the face to not only her fans, but the values she represented. I think
that not only her death but the aftermath of her death and the increasingly
uneven quality of the show did nothing but reinforce the anger and mistrust
among GL fans.
Darn
disappointed that isn't happening now, lol.
And how long after this episode did Maureen die? I saw a clip a while ago on
SoapCity of Maureen confronting about his affair with Lilllian, the actress did
such a wonderful job with the material, she took a clunky line like "Ed, you've
broken my heart." and made it so real.
Peter J.
>
>Can anyone tell what eventually happened in that Bridget/Nadine plot? I'm
>disappointed that isn't happening now, lol.
Buzz, Nadine's shady ex and father of her 2 kids, came to town soon after her
"delivery" (she had arranged to be out of town during her delivery, and came
back to town with Bridget's baby boy, named Peter after Hart's father, IIRC,
but I can't remember if the child was named that in later years or all along)
and sniffed out Nadine's lie. He began blackmailing her, and eventually Billy
found out the big secret through...I think Vanessa. Billy took the baby and
reunited with Vanessa. Bridget chose to stay on the sidelines. When Billy went
to jail for shooting Roger and Vanessa was all alone, and Bridget had started
really improving her life, she decided she wanted custody. They managed to,
right before the judge's verdict came down, make a mutual decision to each love
and take care of the baby, each be a part of his life, although he would live
with Vanessa (the only soap custody battle I've ever been able to stomach).
Vanessa was presumed dead a few years later and Bridget took over raising
Peter. During that time Bridget and Dylan moved away. When Vanessa returned
from the dead, she left Peter with Bridget, and that's where he is to this day.
>
>And how long after this episode did Maureen die? I saw a clip a while ago on
>SoapCity of Maureen confronting about his affair with Lilllian, the actress
>did
>such a wonderful job with the material, she took a clunky line like "Ed,
>you've
>broken my heart." and made it so real.
>
Mo died not even a month after the Christmas episode. BTW, Ellen Parker won an
Emmy a few months after being killed off the show.
CMK1996
>From: chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn)
>Message-id: <20021227033032...@mb-de.aol.com>
>
>Can anyone tell what eventually happened in that Bridget/Nadine plot? I'm
>disappointed that isn't happening now, lol.
>
>And how long after this episode did Maureen die? I saw a clip a while ago on
>SoapCity of Maureen confronting about his affair with Lilllian, the actress
>did
>such a wonderful job with the material, she took a clunky line like "Ed,
>you've
>broken my heart." and made it so real.
>
>Darn
>
Her car crash was due to snowy/icy roads, so it wasn't too long after. Maybe
the beginning of February. People here will know the exact date, I'm sure.
KC
~*Connie*~
wondering if GL asked you how to bring her back, what would you suggest?...
Darn
>From: "~*Connie*~" ce...@nospam.com
>Date: 12/27/02 1:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <YF0P9.17266$f6.2...@twister.maine.rr.com>
>
>With all this talk about missing Mo... and wanting her to come back, I was
>wondering if GL asked you how to bring her back, what would you suggest?...
>
Roger has her somewhere, in a coma, recooperating.
Yeah, yeah Jessie has her heart. No, he has someone else's heart in this story.
Darn
>From: rhfan...@aol.comhatespam (Peter J.)
>Date: 12/27/02 5:13 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20021227051311...@mb-mp.aol.com>
Thanks for the history lesson. I figured Mo died soon after this episode, the
foreshadowing was huge and looming.
CMK1996
>From: chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn)
>Date: 12/27/2002 2:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20021227141902...@mb-fl.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
>>From: "~*Connie*~" ce...@nospam.com
>>Date: 12/27/02 1:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <YF0P9.17266$f6.2...@twister.maine.rr.com>
>>
>>With all this talk about missing Mo... and wanting her to come back, I was
>>wondering if GL asked you how to bring her back, what would you suggest?...
>>
>
>Roger has her somewhere, in a coma, recooperating.
>
>Yeah, yeah Jessie has her heart. No, he has someone else's heart in this
>story.
>
>Darn
And Jessie's not on anymore anyway, so the heart transplant could be rewritten
just like Roger's supposed inability to have more children after Blake was
born.
I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting to go
back and stop Maureen's accident.
KC
Donna L. Bridges
Msg.# <16189-3E...@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
Golden...@webtv.net wrote:
>Everyone loves the old theme song better than the one they have now!!!
>So who the hell- and why the hell- was it changed??? ...
Which old one?
--
DonnaB
"At Christmas play and make good cheer, For Christmas comes but once a
year." - Thomas Tusser (1524-80) English farmer. Five Hundred Points
of Good Husbandry, 'The Farmer's Daily Diet'
Murray Fox
rhfan...@aol.comhatespam wrote on 12/26/02 1:48 PM:
>> "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> How observant that they picked this episode to run. A glaring reminder of
>> the big MISTAKE they made.
>>
>
> Yeah, I think that Maureen's importance was pumped to an even higher degree
> around that time because she was about to die.
You could certainly see all the signs that they were gearing up to kill her
off. Now that I'm watching the show knowing what's in store for poor Mo,
it's pretty clear that they were gearing up to do something dramatic to her.
They were totally setting her up on a pedestal, and fixing every last thing
in her life (she's now reconciled to not having children... she loves her
family and husband *so* much, she brings about Mallet's revelation, she's
the centre of the X-mas party), so that when the end comes it really would
knock us all for a loop.
murr
Murray Fox
rhfan...@aol.comhatespam wrote on 12/26/02 8:49 PM:
>
> I think with proper story planning GL could have survived her departure.
> Instead, they devoted far too much airtime in '93 to new characters or highly
> questionable recasts (did anyone like Malibu Barbie Mindy, AKA Barbara
> Crampton?). I remember 1993 as having way, way too much of Tangie, Jenna
> (although I love Fiona Hutchinson), and Buzz.
Wow! We're in agreement again. I couldn't stand the pairing of Buzz and
Jenna. Yawn yawn yawn!
> Another exit that does not get as much attention but was as damaging in
> different ways than Mo's death was Nadine's death.
Very very true.
> Not only was Nadine the
> heart of the Cooper family and the excuse for why Frank and Harley had such
> emotional problems, she was a constant source of humor and goofiness, while
> being equally effective in drama. To have her not only written out, but
> violently killed and dumped in the docks, was a betrayal of any sense of
> humanity or decency. To this day I am still waiting for them to bring Nadine
> back, because I think that she could at the very least rejuvenate the sad-sack
> Cooper family.
And they could bring her back if they wanted to. Her death wasn't nearly as
final as Mo's.
Peter J.
>
>Wow! We're in agreement again. I couldn't stand the pairing of Buzz and
>Jenna. Yawn yawn yawn!
They weren't bad when she returned, but the first go-round seemed to be a lot
of screaming matches.
>
>And they could bring her back if they wanted to. Her death wasn't nearly as
>final as Mo's.
>
They left huge loopholes for Nadine's death -- no body to idenfity, etc. I
would love to see her again. She was always fun, and endearing, qualities GL
hasn't had much of since she died.
Jude The Obscure
"Donna L. Bridges" <shall...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:qlrr0vgjoa3dpb1e0...@4ax.com...
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:12:03 -0600 (CST) in
> Msg.# <16189-3E...@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> Golden...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> >Everyone loves the old theme song better than the one they have now!!!
> >So who the hell- and why the hell- was it changed??? ...
>
> Which old one?
>
Lynne726
would love to see her again. She was always fun, and endearing, qualities GL
hasn't had much of since she died.<<<
I don't remember that. I thought they pulled a body from the river
(Marion/Brent had wrapped her up in something and dumped her there) and
identified her through dental records????
Peter J.
>
>I don't remember that. I thought they pulled a body from the river
>(Marion/Brent had wrapped her up in something and dumped her there) and
>identified her through dental records????
I don't remember dental records. I remember the body being very decayed and not
helpful, and her being identified because of jewelery found with the body.
Murray Fox
rhfan...@aol.comhatespam wrote on 12/28/02 6:51 PM:
Nope it was dental records, but those are easy to fake. Bring Nadine back,
I say.
Dana Carpender
~*Connie*~ wrote:
>
> With all this talk about missing Mo... and wanting her to come back, I was
> wondering if GL asked you how to bring her back, what would you suggest?...
Seeing as how her heart was transplanted, she's about as dead as a soap
character can get. The only feasible ways to bring her back I can think
of are either as a ghost, which would be seriously labored, or by making
the last ten years all a dream, which would be even more labored.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
NEW! 500 Low-Carb Recipes
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Lynne726
of are either as a ghost, which would be seriously labored, or by making
the last ten years all a dream, which would be even more labored.<<<
And they have brought Maureen back as a ghost several times already!
Peter J.
>
>And they have brought Maureen back as a ghost several times already!
>
She only came back as a ghost once, and that was when Vanessa was near-death,
possibly dismissing it as an out-of-body experience. The times she appeared to
Michelle were presented as being either a ghost or a figment of the
imagination.
They could bring Mo back if they wanted to. They could always say that she had
seen a crime or something along those lines and her death had to be faked.
Heather
:
>Yeah, yeah Jessie has her heart. No, he has someone else's heart in this story.
Ugh, I'll scream if we find out Mo had a long lost identical twin who
was somehow killed. ;)
Heather
--
My real address is heather @ operamail dot com.
I very rarely read the one shown as a reply to/from address ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Much madness is divinest sense | Mommy to Rowan Justina (11/6/97)
To a discerning eye -Dickinson | Woman of many talents to myself.
Sarah
Oh but that would be SO stupid! I MIGHT buy that as a reason for
Nadine's death being faked or something, but not Maureen, no way, no
how!
I know that because of more poor decisions after Maureen's death her
absence just feels bigger and bigger as time goes on, but I still feel
she must STAY DEAD! This show for me, goes out the window if they bring
her back from death.
Sarah Estell
"Peter J." <rhfan...@aol.comhatespam> wrote in message
news:20021225153405...@mb-fu.aol.com...
>
> Anyone else mist up a bit when you saw Maureen again? GL has never been
the
> same without her.
Yep. And especially since I knew that this was her last Christmas and that
that b*tch Lillian and her stupid delusional letter were going to lead to
Mo's death. The scenes with Maureen and Mallet were touching and when
Maureen was so happy to see Lillian, I was screaming at my TV 10 years
later!
>
> Isn't it another sick joke so typical of life that out of such an
exemplary,
> superb cast, one of the only people left is the annoying-then-annoying-now
> Lillian? How thrilling to see her writing the note that killed Maureen. I
hate
> her even more now :p
I've hated Lillian for years and for many things, but showing her writing
that letter brought it all back for me. OOOhhhhhh I can't stand her. Never
have and never will.
The other interesting thing I noticed about the episode was the interaction
between Ed and Eve. Knowing that they would one day fall in love and marry
was neat. Also, I remembered how much I liked Eleni and Alan-Michael
together. He really loved her so much! I always liked Eleni and A-M better
than Eleni and Frank.
SarahE
Sarah Estell
"CMK1996" <cmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021228083441...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
>
> I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting to
go
> back and stop Maureen's accident.
>
> KC
I love this idea!!
SarahE
Dana Carpender
Twice, that I can remember, once to talk to 'Chelle, and once when she
met Vanessa at the Pearly Gates and told her it wasn't her time yet.
I dunno, I think having Mo as a regular ghostly appearance, giving
council and advice, would be pretty heavy-handed. If we're bringing
back a character as an apparition, I'd rather do it with Nadine. First
of all, she always had a psychic bent, and secondly, it could be played
for laughs, which would lighten the whole thing. However, with both of
them, it's been so long I think it's best left alone. I mean, if Mo
suddenly started showing up as a ghost all the time, why hasn't she been
doing it all along? Why didn't she come when, say, 'Chelle was up for
murder? Or to advise her about Danny?
Dana Carpender
This is the best way of bringing her back I've heard of yet, but how
much history would then have to change? Ed would have had to
miraculously reappear -- and this was before Simon took a new contract.
Michelle would probably not be married to Danny. I'm trying to think
what else would all have to have been changed, overnight...
What a field day for the writers!
James
"Dana Carpender" <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote in message
news:3E108E51...@kiva.net...
>
>
> Sarah Estell wrote:
> >
> > "CMK1996" <cmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20021228083441...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> > > >Subject: Re: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
> >
> > >
> > > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting
to
> > go
> > > back and stop Maureen's accident.
> > >
> > > KC
> >
> > I love this idea!!
> >
>
>
> This is the best way of bringing her back I've heard of yet, but how
> much history would then have to change? Ed would have had to
> miraculously reappear -- and this was before Simon took a new contract.
> Michelle would probably not be married to Danny. I'm trying to think
> what else would all have to have been changed, overnight...
>
> What a field day for the writers!
Well, you could always have her go back and snatch her out before the
accident somehow (keep in mind I don't know what happened as I wasn't
watching back then.) But then bring her to the present. In essence she
would still be gone all those years and nothing would have to change. They
wouldn't have to worry about writing in the past changing, as it really
wouldn't. THey just would not have found a body!! Then she shows up with
Reva through the painting!!
Dana Carpender
Uh, then where did Jesse's heart come from?
It's the whole organ donation thing that messes up this approach.
James
~*Connie*~
na.. it would just be one of those paradox things and jesse would have
either died, or gotten a heart from somewhere else. His would be the only
history that would change, and since he's not on the show they could easily
get around that by having michelle at some point say "jesse who?"
Sarah Estell
> >
> > "CMK1996" <cmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20021228083441...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> > > >Subject: Re: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
> >
> > >
> > > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting
to
> > go
> > > back and stop Maureen's accident.
> > >
> > > KC
> >
> > I love this idea!!
> >
>
>
> This is the best way of bringing her back I've heard of yet, but how
> much history would then have to change? Ed would have had to
> miraculously reappear -- and this was before Simon took a new contract.
> Michelle would probably not be married to Danny. I'm trying to think
> what else would all have to have been changed, overnight...
>
> What a field day for the writers!
Well......Ed would never have left town because he wouldn't have married and
then pulled the plug on Eve. I doubt Fletcher would have left Holly and
taken Meg (Maureen would have talked some sense into him). Michelle would
not have married Danny and we would have no Robbie. There would also have
been no Jesse Blue because he would have died with his bad heart. I can
live with all of that! Need to think more about what else would have
happened. Perhaps the best thing of all is that Lillian would have left
town in disgrace!
SarahE
Donna L. Bridges
<YF0P9.17266$f6.2...@twister.maine.rr.com>, "~*Connie*~"
<ce...@nospam.com> wrote:
>With all this talk about missing Mo... and wanting her to come back, I was
>wondering if GL asked you how to bring her back, what would you suggest?...
My way was all tied up with Roger & Ed & getting Ed back & discovering
Mo alive & getting her back but Roger dying heroically making that a
reality.
--
DonnaB
"Once in royal David's city Stood a lowly cattle shed, Where a Mother
laid her Baby In a manger for His bed: Mary was that Mother mild,
Jesus Christ her little Child." - C. F. Alexander (1818-95) British
hymn writer. Once in Royal David's City
Dave
> back and stop Maureen's accident.
I love the idea of Reva using her magic painting to go back to the
Bauer cabin. Just imagine - she convinces Mo that she's in no
condition to drive, so Reva offers to drive her. The accident still
happens, but Mo is ejected from the car and Reva dies in the horrible
explosion of the car. The Bauer family history doesn't have to change
much, except for the Jesse-has-Mo's-heart silliness. They still
presume Mo died in the accident. And wasn't Reva presumed dead at the
time of Mo's death? This would be perfect, since nobody would miss
her during that time period. Josh and the kids could still be in
Italy, we would have been spared Goshen *and* San Cristobel. (I guess
that would impact Rick due to Abby.) I'm liking this idea more and
more. :-) It could have been the only saving grace of that awful time
travel story, and also a great way to clean house.
Dave
Peter J.
>
>Twice, that I can remember, once to talk to 'Chelle, and once when she
>met Vanessa at the Pearly Gates and told her it wasn't her time yet.
>
>I dunno, I think having Mo as a regular ghostly appearance, giving
>council and advice, would be pretty heavy-handed. If we're bringing
>back a character as an apparition, I'd rather do it with Nadine. First
>of all, she always had a psychic bent, and secondly, it could be played
>for laughs, which would lighten the whole thing. However, with both of
>them, it's been so long I think it's best left alone. I mean, if Mo
>suddenly started showing up as a ghost all the time, why hasn't she been
>doing it all along? Why didn't she come when, say, 'Chelle was up for
>murder? Or to advise her about Danny?
>
None of those were ever true ghost appearances. They were presented as being in
the person's mind.
As for her not appearing regularly as a ghost, I agree.
Sarah
>
> "Dana Carpender" <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:3E108E51...@kiva.net...
> >
> >
> > Sarah Estell wrote:
> > >
> > > "CMK1996" <cmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20021228083441...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> > > > >Subject: Re: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting
> to
> > > go
> > > > back and stop Maureen's accident.
> > > >
> > > > KC
> > >
> > > I love this idea!!
> > >
> >
> >
> > This is the best way of bringing her back I've heard of yet, but how
> > much history would then have to change? Ed would have had to
> > miraculously reappear -- and this was before Simon took a new contract.
> > Michelle would probably not be married to Danny. I'm trying to think
> > what else would all have to have been changed, overnight...
> >
> > What a field day for the writers!
>
> Well, you could always have her go back and snatch her out before the
> accident somehow (keep in mind I don't know what happened as I wasn't
> watching back then.)
Wouldn't Maureen be STUNNED to see Reva alive????
Sarah
>
> > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting to go
> > back and stop Maureen's accident.
>
> I love the idea of Reva using her magic painting to go back to the
> Bauer cabin. Just imagine - she convinces Mo that she's in no
> condition to drive, so Reva offers to drive her. The accident still
> happens, but Mo is ejected from the car and Reva dies in the horrible
> explosion of the car.
ROFL! Why do I have a feeling that wouldn't go over as well as we would
all like to think? :)
Darn
>Date: 12/30/02 9:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3E10FD...@pacbell.net>
>
>Dave wrote:
>>
>> > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting to
>go
>> > back and stop Maureen's accident.
>>
>> I love the idea of Reva using her magic painting to go back to the
>> Bauer cabin. Just imagine - she convinces Mo that she's in no
>> condition to drive, so Reva offers to drive her. The accident still
>> happens, but Mo is ejected from the car and Reva dies in the horrible
>> explosion of the car.
>
>ROFL! Why do I have a feeling that wouldn't go over as well as we would
>all like to think? :)
I'm hoping all of this time travel stuff id just fanwank and people having fun,
not actual story ideas.
Darn
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/ijsbb/forum.cgi?action=list&forum=489
http://pub18.ezboard.com/bsoapslut
http://www.generalshmospital.com/
http://dimwitt.tripod.com/snark.html
http://whoswhoinsalem.com/main/
CMK1996
>Date: 12/30/2002 10:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20021230222043...@mb-de.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: GL / Mo's death was GL/ Christmas Classic wow wow wow
>>From: Sarah sar...@pacbell.net
>>Date: 12/30/02 9:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <3E10FD...@pacbell.net>
>>
>>Dave wrote:
>>>
>>> > I've said it before, they should have used Reva's time-travel painting
>to
>>go
>>> > back and stop Maureen's accident.
>>>
>>> I love the idea of Reva using her magic painting to go back to the
>>> Bauer cabin. Just imagine - she convinces Mo that she's in no
>>> condition to drive, so Reva offers to drive her. The accident still
>>> happens, but Mo is ejected from the car and Reva dies in the horrible
>>> explosion of the car.
>>
>>ROFL! Why do I have a feeling that wouldn't go over as well as we would
>>all like to think? :)
>
>I'm hoping all of this time travel stuff id just fanwank and people having
>fun,
>not actual story ideas.
Yes, it's just a fun what-if exercise. The way I envisioned it when I posted
this idea is that Maureen still reads Lillian's letter and goes to the cabin. I
forgot about the fact the Reva had been presumed dead during that time, but how
about this:
Reva stumbles back into town, semi-amnesiacy, with maybe with Abby in tow, who
is maybe is parentless in this scenario. Alan doesn't get to go to Goshen, or
keep the secret that Reva's alive, but I don't *think* that's a problem. So she
was in SC for a year (time enough to have baby Jonathan) and Goshen for a year.
No disruption of SC (not that anyone here would care) and Abby still exists.
Ed finds her and calls Josh home. All this commotion prevents him from going
after Maureen. If he doesn't go, they don't have the fight that makes her flee
in the car. OK, so Maureen spends time at the cabin and decides that she'll
divorce Ed. She finds Springfield too small a town, running into Ed and Lillian
all the time is too painful, so she leaves town for awhile, or for however long
it would take to explain plots affected by her absence. Ed has the relationship
with Eve, then goes to Africa. Michelle still gets involved with Danny, because
not only does she not have her father around, but her mother is absent and that
"rejection" makes her even more vulnerable. Maureen comes back during
Michelle's trial, maybe.
We'd have scenes where Maureen lays into Lillian a few more times, maybe has
that affair with Fletcher, goes head-to-head with Claire, Maureen dealing with
the mess of Michelle's life, Maureen vs. Carmen. Ed comes back from Africa and
comes face-to-face with Mo again. Mo and Holly and Lillian, oh my. Mo and Buzz
would probably strike up a friendship, if not more.
The only thing that I can't explain is Jesse and the heart, but he's never
coming back and she just referred to Danny as her first love, or something that
basically erased Jesse from her past anyway. We wouldn't have the scenes where
Roger mourns her, but he's most likely never coming back either, so I don't
think that's a huge problem.
I'm probably missing some story points here, but I think it could have worked.
I posted this scenario back during the time travel plot, but people didn't see
it, I guess. I love how this go-round has prompted some past-plot analysis!
KC
Sarah Estell
The way I envisioned it when I posted
> this idea is that Maureen still reads Lillian's letter and goes to the
cabin. I
> forgot about the fact the Reva had been presumed dead during that time,
but how
> about this:
>
> Reva stumbles back into town, semi-amnesiacy, with maybe with Abby in tow,
who
> is maybe is parentless in this scenario.
No need for Abby at all. What did she really do in town?
Alan doesn't get to go to Goshen, or
> keep the secret that Reva's alive, but I don't *think* that's a problem.
So she
> was in SC for a year (time enough to have baby Jonathan) and Goshen for a
year.
> No disruption of SC (not that anyone here would care) and Abby still
exists.
OK.
>
> Ed finds her and calls Josh home. All this commotion prevents him from
going
> after Maureen. If he doesn't go, they don't have the fight that makes her
flee
> in the car.
But somewhere she has to utter her famous line: "Ed, you have broken my
heart." It still kills me that this was Maureen's last line!
OK, so Maureen spends time at the cabin and decides that she'll
> divorce Ed. She finds Springfield too small a town, running into Ed and
Lillian
> all the time is too painful, so she leaves town for awhile, or for however
long
> it would take to explain plots affected by her absence. Ed has the
relationship
> with Eve, then goes to Africa. Michelle still gets involved with Danny,
because
> not only does she not have her father around, but her mother is absent and
that
> "rejection" makes her even more vulnerable. Maureen comes back during
> Michelle's trial, maybe.
No no and no! Maureen Bauer would never have left Michelle under any
circumstances. She would at the very least have taken Michelle with her
(and let that cheating, lying, alcoholic Ed try to keep Michelle away from
Maureen Bauer!). No Danny. No Jesse. If you have Mo divorce Ed and take
Michelle (still living in town or moving away - doesn't matter), then Ed can
still marry Eve.
>
> We'd have scenes where Maureen lays into Lillian a few more times, maybe
has
> that affair with Fletcher, goes head-to-head with Claire, Maureen dealing
with
> the mess of Michelle's life,
I like all this.
>Maureen vs. Carmen.
Nope. never would have been a Carmen.
Ed comes back from Africa and
> comes face-to-face with Mo again. Mo and Holly and Lillian, oh my. Mo and
Buzz
> would probably strike up a friendship, if not more.
Mo and Buzz......Hmmmm.....
>
> The only thing that I can't explain is Jesse and the heart, but he's never
> coming back and she just referred to Danny as her first love, or something
that
> basically erased Jesse from her past anyway.
No Jesse and no Danny. Michelle grows up to marry Bill just like she is
supposed to.
We wouldn't have the scenes where
> Roger mourns her, but he's most likely never coming back either, so I
don't
> think that's a huge problem.
How about a scene where Maureen leaves (with Michelle) for a while and we
get a nice airport goodbye scene with Roger saying all those wonderful
things that he said to her at her grave? Maybe even coming close to kissing
her but stopping? And then he would really, REALLY hate Ed even more for
running Maureen out of town and would set out for vengeance against Lillian.
SarahE
CMK1996
>Date: 12/31/2002 10:52 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <S1jQ9.35810$eB.6...@twister.kc.rr.com>
could have her in or out, depending on how you handle it. Same with Danny. I
suggested Maureen leaving town as the way around it, but you're right, she'd
never leave Michelle. I was trying to lay it out with a few changes to current
story as possible. If we're talking about how it all SHOULD have been, that's
different.
As I say, I think if you disregard the stuff that's irrelevant (Jesse) and
stuff that didn't work anyway (SC, mob) and tweak some other stuff a bit, it
could have dug them out of a big hole.
KC
KC
Shawn Hill
:>Murray Fox mur...@kw.igs.net wrote:
:>And they could bring her back if they wanted to. Her death wasn't nearly as
:>final as Mo's.
:>
: They left huge loopholes for Nadine's death -- no body to idenfity, etc. I
: would love to see her again. She was always fun, and endearing, qualities GL
: hasn't had much of since she died.
They found her body floating in the lake and Frank identified her through
dental records. At the time I thought "wow, they really don't ever want her
back."
Shawn
Sarah Estell
"Shawn Hill" <sh...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:auvsc8$8va$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Of course that's the same way they found and identified Carmen's body, IIRC.
SarahE
Dana Carpender
Well, and she was unconcious, wrapped in a rug, and thrown in the lake.
The chances of escape were virtually non-existant, at least without
assistance.
Dana Carpender
Yabbut Carmen had henchmen and connections. Deenie had neither.
Peter J.
>
>Well, and she was unconcious, wrapped in a rug, and thrown in the lake.
>The chances of escape were virtually non-existant, at least without
>assistance.
Which she could have had. Reva was saved by a fishing boat or whatever. We
never really saw Nadine's dead body. We saw her hit, Brent considered her dead,
wrapped her in a rug, and then tossed her in the lake. AFAIC, she could be
alive somewhere.
CMK1996
>From: rhfan...@aol.comhatespam (Peter J.)
>Date: 1/1/2003 8:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20030101201543...@mb-cn.aol.com>
anybody on right now, and hasn't been in years, that provides that special
something that Nadine did.
KC
Shawn Hill
:>Dana Carpender dcar...@kiva.net wrote:
We saw Nadine's dead body repeatedly, bobbing in the water, her sad
pony-tail poking clearly out of the horridly wrapped bundle.
Shawn
MsLiz
Langford) wrote:
>>From: chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn)
>>>From: "Jude The Obscure" jhc86SP...@worldnet.att.net
>>>Another thing that was nice to see was the FULL opening credits of the last
>>>(previous) theme. I especially love that last part of where Harley is
>>>dancing.....hee hee
>>
>>Me too (regarding Harley dancing), that's the first time I've seen it.
>>
>I liked that too. Does anybody recall when/where that scene took place?
Yes, I do! (Raises hand and hops up and down)
Harley and Josh became engaged the night she had this scene. It may
have been a New Year's Eve party.
Harley and Josh had much more chemistry than Josh ever did with Reva.
Beth Ehlers could generate chemistry with the statue of David!
MsLiz
Using her husband's computer because her daughter is playing games on the other one
Donna L. Bridges
<3e0e53c6....@news.mindspring.com>,
lizg...@mindspring.commotion (MsLiz) wrote:
>Beth Ehlers could generate chemistry with the statue of David!
Great line, just a goodie.
--
DonnaB ยค Snow #4 in NYC
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." -
Bertrand Russell