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retrofit very old fresnel lights with modern bulbs, or where to find old 3200k bulbs

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Aaron Kiley

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:56:23 PM4/20/12
to
Hi, New to Group,

I have some tungsten hot lights from the 40's or 50's. Photogenic
Vari-Beam with GE 750w projector style bulb with two pin base. Also a
Photogenic disk type light with a giant screw in GE clear 1000w bulb.
Last is a fresnel light Narar Pro Spot.

Does anyone know about retrofits, or bulb availability? ... Aaron

Atlantic Illumination Entertainment Lighting

unread,
Apr 26, 2012, 12:54:53 PM4/26/12
to
Aaron Kiley wrote:
> Hi, New to Group,

*** Welcome.


> I have some tungsten hot lights from the 40's or 50's. Photogenic
> Vari-Beam with GE 750w projector style bulb with two pin base.

*** Do you have the ANSI three-letter designation for those projector
lamps? We overhaul lights regularly and have some stock of old projection
lamps. I'd guess that lamp to have a medium or mogul bi-post base. We have
a few medium bi-post, 750-watt lamps in stock and some 1000-watt mogul
bi-post ones.


> Also a Photogenic disk type light with a giant screw-in GE clear
> 1000w bulb. Last is a fresnel light Narar Pro Spot.

*** That is probably a mogul screw base lamp. I would have to dig
through our upstairs archived stock to see if we have something suitable.

Be wary of industrial lamps. They may fit the socket and physical
dimensions, but have the wrong filament. The lamp might work, but light
levels may be too low -- especially if the filament is rotationally
misaligned with the reflector/lens optics after it is screwed in.

Any information written on the bulb surface of the lamp you have would
be helpful. Otherwise, please measure the bulb diameter and also from the
center of the filament to the top of the screw base. E-mail me the
results.


> Does anyone know about retrofits, or bulb availability?
>
> ... Aaron

*** There were some retrofit kits available at one time, but none of
our suppliers have them anymore. The problem with such kits is that they
have to have a variety of plate and shim sizes to position the filament to
align with the reflector and lens system. Even then, a given kit will
typically only fit into a few manufacturers' fixtures. We do this work
ourselves now.
--------


It is my suggestion to try to locate suitable lamps before spending
the money to retrofit. Some old lamps are expensive and their prices
escalate as their rarity increases. However, others may be had for a song
if requests have dropped off enough. Most seem to be in the middle of
pricing levels for similar, but modern lamps.

--
Richard Bonner
http://AIEL.chebucto.biz/

Aaron Kiley

unread,
Apr 28, 2012, 9:42:03 PM4/28/12
to
On Apr 26, 12:54 pm, a...@chebucto.ns.ca (Atlantic Illumination
Thanks for this. Here is what I found.

The Photogenic Vari-Beam fresnel style light has a GE 750w projector
style bulb with two pin base. See photos here.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18132008/2%20pin%20bulb%20socket.jpg
http://db.tt/cgfaoevY
There is a number 52 on the bottom. The top says General Electric
Base Down 3200K M.P. 750W 120V. Diamerter is 3", top of base to mid-
fillement is 2.3", pins are 0.87" on center, bulb is about 6" lon inc
pins.

The 1000 watt 120 volt GE clear glass bulb for the Photogenic dish
light has no other info printed on the bulb anywhere. Mid-filiment to
top of base is 7.5". Diameter of bulb is 7". Diameter of screw in
base is 1.5" and looks exactly like a traditional household bulb base
but bigger. No photos.

Last is a fresnel light Narar Pro Spot. The bulb takes a half turn
sort of like a bayonet mount with two wings on the base. Like all the
others, clear glass, diameter is 2.5"top of base to mid-filiment is
1.75", Total bulb length about 5.6". Numbers on top say. 3200K DMX
50 HR 500W 120V. Photos below
http://db.tt/a2rixcaP and http://db.tt/VQbfk6wG

Are new bulbs going to be close to 3200K? It won't work if they vary
a lot. Also, the existing bulbs are fairly dirty, the I handled them
without gloves. Is there a good way to clean them before I power them
up?

Thanks ... Aaron


Duncan Wood

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Apr 29, 2012, 7:37:23 AM4/29/12
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 02:42:03 +0100, Aaron Kiley <kiley...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Now i'm wondering what you're actually trying to do that's CT sensitive?
(Most modern CP class bulbs are 3200K)

> Also, the existing bulbs are fairly dirty, the I handled them
> without gloves. Is there a good way to clean them before I power them
> up?
>

Clean with alcohol.
> Thanks ... Aaron
>

Aaron Kiley

unread,
Apr 29, 2012, 8:27:08 AM4/29/12
to
On Apr 29, 7:37 am, "Duncan Wood" <nntn...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 02:42:03 +0100, Aaron Kiley <kiley.aa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 12:54 pm, a...@chebucto.ns.ca (Atlantic Illumination
> > Entertainment Lighting) wrote:
> >> Aaron Kiley wrote:
> >> > Hi,  New to Group,
>
> >> ***   Welcome.
>
> >> > I have some tungsten hot lights from the 40's or 50's.  Photogenic
> >> > Vari-Beam with GE 750w projector style bulb with two pin base.
>
> >> ***   Do you have the ANSI three-letter designation for those projector
> >> lamps? We overhaul lights regularly and have some stock ofold
> >> projection
> >> lamps. I'd guess that lamp to have a medium or mogul bi-post base. We
> >> have
> >> a few medium bi-post, 750-watt lamps in stock and some 1000-watt mogul
> >> bi-post ones.
>
> >> > Also a Photogenic disk type light with a giant screw-in GE clear
> >> > 1000w bulb.  Last is afresnellight Narar Pro Spot.
>
> >> ***   That is probably a mogul screw base lamp. I would have to dig
> >> through our upstairs archived stock to see if we have something
> >> suitable.
>
> >>    Be wary of industrial lamps. They may fit the socket and physical
> >> dimensions, but have the wrong filament. The lamp might work, but light
> >> levels may be too low -- especially if the filament is rotationally
> >> misaligned with the reflector/lens optics after it is screwed in.
>
> >>    Any information written on the bulb surface of the lamp you have
> >> would
> >> be helpful. Otherwise, please measure the bulb diameter and also from
> >> the
> >> center of the filament to the top of the screw base. E-mail me the
> >> results.
>
> >> > Does anyone know about retrofits, or bulb availability?
>
> >> >   ... Aaron
>
> >> ***   There were someretrofitkits available at one time, but none of
> >> our suppliers have them anymore. The problem with such kits is that they
> >> have to have a variety of plate and shim sizes to position the filament
> >> to
> >> align with the reflector and lens system. Even then, a given kit will
> >> typically only fit into a few manufacturers' fixtures. We do this work
> >> ourselves now.
> >>                               --------
>
> >>    It is my suggestion to try to locate suitable lamps before spending
> >> the money toretrofit. Someoldlamps are expensive and their prices
> >> escalate as their rarity increases. However, others may be had for a
> >> song
> >> if requests have dropped off enough. Most seem to be in the middle of
> >> pricing levels for similar, but modern lamps.
>
> >> --
> >>     Richard Bonnerhttp://AIEL.chebucto.biz/
>
> > Thanks for this.  Here is what I found.
>
> > The Photogenic Vari-Beamfresnelstyle light has a GE 750w projector
> > style bulb with two pin base.  See photos here.
> >http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18132008/2%20pin%20bulb%20socket.jpg
> >http://db.tt/cgfaoevY
> > There is a number 52 on the bottom.  The top says General Electric
> > Base Down 3200K M.P. 750W 120V.  Diamerter is 3", top of base to mid-
> > fillement is 2.3", pins are 0.87" on center, bulb is about 6" lon inc
> > pins.
>
> > The 1000 watt 120 volt GE clear glass bulb for the Photogenic dish
> > light has no other info printed on the bulb anywhere.  Mid-filiment to
> > top of base is 7.5".  Diameter of bulb is 7".  Diameter of screw in
> > base is 1.5" and looks exactly like a traditional household bulb base
> > but bigger.  No photos.
>
> > Last is afresnellight Narar Pro Spot.  The bulb takes a half turn
> > sort of like a bayonet mount with two wings on the base.  Like all the
> > others, clear glass, diameter is 2.5"top of base to mid-filiment is
> > 1.75", Total bulb length about 5.6".  Numbers on top say.  3200K DMX
> > 50 HR 500W 120V.  Photos below
> >http://db.tt/a2rixcaP and  http://db.tt/VQbfk6wG
>
> > Are newbulbsgoing to be close to 3200K?  It won't work if they vary
> > a lot.
>
> Now i'm wondering what you're actually trying to do that's CT sensitive?
> (Most modern CP classbulbsare 3200K)
>
> >  Also, the existingbulbsare fairly dirty, the I handled them
> > without gloves.  Is there a good way to clean them before I power them
> > up?
>
> Clean with alcohol.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks ... Aaron

I'm shooting cars in a studio. Still photography. I know everything
tungsten is 32k, but I get curious when it's a 60 year old bulb, or an
off brand, projector bulb etc. If one light is even 3,000k in a sea
of 3200k you see the difference on film. That said, I can gel a light
here and there. thanks for the alcohol tip. ... Aaron

Duncan Wood

unread,
Apr 29, 2012, 8:36:48 AM4/29/12
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:27:08 +0100, Aaron Kiley <kiley...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Ah, I was confused as the originals where probably a lower colour
temperature.

Anyway
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PH-500T20P-500w-GE-DMX-T20-120v-Projection-lamp-bulb-/260542011512

may be one of the ones you're looking for

Aaron Kiley

unread,
May 2, 2012, 6:48:31 AM5/2/12
to
On Apr 29, 8:36 am, "Duncan Wood" <nntn...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:27:08 +0100, Aaron Kiley <kiley.aa...@gmail.com>
> >> >http://db.tt/a2rixcaPand  http://db.tt/VQbfk6wG
>
> >> > Are newbulbsgoing to be close to 3200K?  It won't work if they vary
> >> > a lot.
>
> >> Now i'm wondering what you're actually trying to do that's CT sensitive?
> >> (Most modern CP classbulbsare 3200K)
>
> >> >  Also, the existingbulbsare fairly dirty, the I handled them
> >> > without gloves.  Is there a good way to clean them before I power them
> >> > up?
>
> >> Clean with alcohol.
>
> >> > Thanks ... Aaron
>
> > I'm shooting cars in a studio.  Still photography.  I know everything
> > tungsten is 32k, but I get curious when it's a 60 yearoldbulb, or an
> > off brand, projector bulb etc.  If one light is even 3,000k in a sea
> > of 3200k you see the difference on film.  That said, I can gel a light
> > here and there.   thanks for the alcohol tip.  ..
>
> Ah, I was confused as the originals where probably a lower colour
> temperature.
>
> Anywayhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PH-500T20P-500w-GE-DMX-T20-120v-Projection-...
>
> may be one of the ones you're looking for

Checked on Bobs bulbs and most of the bulbs are too expensive to make
this whole plan practice. Can buy new lights for the price of a few
bulbs. ... Aaron

Atlantic Illumination Entertainment Lighting

unread,
May 9, 2012, 1:45:53 PM5/9/12
to
Aaron Kiley wrote:
> On Apr 26, 12:54=A0pm, a...@chebucto.ns.ca (Atlantic Illumination
> Entertainment Lighting) wrote:

> > Aaron Kiley wrote:
> > > I have some tungsten hot lights from the 40's or 50's. =A0Photogenic
> > > Vari-Beam with GE 750w projector style bulb with two pin base.
(Snip)

> > =A0 =A0Any information written on the bulb surface of the lamp you have w=
> ould
> > be helpful. Otherwise, please measure the bulb diameter and also from the
> > center of the filament to the top of the screw base. E-mail me the
> > results.

> Thanks for this. Here is what I found.

*** Sorry for the delay; I was expecting an e-mail from you and this
time of the season, I have too many shows to check the group very often.


(Snip)
> There is a number 52 on the bottom. The top says General Electric
> Base Down 3200K M.P. 750W 120V. Diameter is 3", top of base to mid-
> fillement is 2.3", pins are 0.87" on center, bulb is about 6" lon inc
> pins.

*** OK. Except for the `M.P.'(*), this sounds like a 750T24/16 lamp.
They were long ago discontinued. However, I show some lamps in inventory
that should sub for yours. Please e-mail me.

(*) Are you sure this is not a medium prefocus base; that is, a
push-and-turn base? The socket photo seems to be for a bipost base. If
it is the latter, I'd guess it's a 750T24/16 lamp.


> The 1000 watt 120 volt GE clear glass bulb for the Photogenic dish
> light has no other info printed on the bulb anywhere. Mid-filiment to
> top of base is 7.5". Diameter of bulb is 7". Diameter of screw in
> base is 1.5" and looks exactly like a traditional household bulb base
> but bigger. No photos.

*** I'd guess it's a mogul-screw-base lamp such as a 1M/G40FL, only
larger. This will require more research on my behalf in order to narrow
down what it is.

With the bulb diameter you give, it implies a G56 lamp. I know of no
1000-watt studio lamps that large. I wonder if it is an industrial lamp
that has been substituted for a studio one. When the current lamp is in
the fixture, does the center of the filament align with the center of the
lens and the center of the reflector?


> Last is a fresnel light Narar Pro Spot. The bulb takes a half turn
> sort of like a bayonet mount with two wings on the base. Like all the
> others, clear glass, diameter is 2.5"top of base to mid-filiment is
> 1.75". Total bulb length about 5.6". Numbers on top say. 3200K DMX
> 50 HR 500W 120V.

*** I believe we may have some DMX lamps in archive. If not, there are
substitutes. Please e-mail me.


> Are new bulbs going to be close to 3200K?

*** Most common studio lamps today have 3200K versions, so no worries.


> It won't work if they vary a lot.

*** You could always colour correct, but that's extra work.


> Also, the existing bulbs are fairly dirty; I handled them without
> gloves. Is there a good way to clean them before I power them
> up?

*** If they are really dirty, you can clean them in a sink with dish
soap and water. Be aware that anything written on the bulb face will
likely disappear.

Place a soft towel on the bottom of the sink as a cushion and wash one
lamp at a time so as to avoid collisions. Run water on each to wash away
the loose stuff, then with dish soap slowly rub with your bare hands,
being cautious of sharp edges. Use a scouring soap-pad to shine the
base. Keep the pad away from the bulb to prevent scratches. Rinse well
and place on a dry towel near the sink. Be sure the lamps can't roll away.

Afterward, dry them thoroughly and clean the bulb with rubbing alcohol
or methanol (our favourite) and a soft tissue.

Before replacing the lamp, inspect the socket for discolouration or
burnt areas. Repair or replace. If available, spray industrial silicone
into the socket as a release for future replacement procedures. Do not
touch the bulb during replacement.
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