Scrim painting
Larry Pint
next show. We want it to look like a wall inside the house when it's
lit from the front and be able to see the actor behind it when lit from
behind. Pretty normal use of a scrim. We're a small theatre group and
have never done this before. We have gotten two "hints" on how to do
the painting of the scrim. Both methods call for newspaper or absorbent
material under the scrim while applying the paint.
The first method is to use watered down (thinned) paint of the same
color as the rest of the wall and roll it onto the scrim being careful
not to fill the holes between the threads.
The second method is to use spray paint.
From your experience, which method is better? Or is there a better way
yet?
I also remember something (from a seminar a while ago) about paint that
could be washed out after the show was over, so we could re-use the
scrim. I can't recall the type of paint that was mentioned. Is this
possible? What kind of paint would that be?
Thanks for your help.
Larry Pint
Curtain Call Theatre
New Prague, MN
Philip Lewis
we had our first experience with a scrim this past show (The Mikado---
Currently playing in Pittsburgh see: http://www.trfn.org/~savoyard
plug plug)
We were going to paint it, be decided against it. The scrim retains
much more functionality if you project a slide onto it instead.
Of course, this requires have a projector, and a slide of the image
you want... but it's an option worth considering. Think about the
price of the projector as the price of the fabric if you needed to
make another scrim.
unfortunatly, we didn't get the slide for this one... but still used
the scrim with front lighting to fade in the scene behind...
Make sure you weight it enough for best results...
--
be safe,
flip
^___^
\^.^/
==u==
sarah thiboutot
<lp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I'd like some experienced opinions. We want to paint a scrim for our
> next show. We want it to look like a wall inside the house when it's
> lit from the front and be able to see the actor behind it when lit from
> behind. Pretty normal use of a scrim. We're a small theatre group and
> have never done this before. We have gotten two "hints" on how to do
> the painting of the scrim. Both methods call for newspaper or absorbent
> material under the scrim while applying the paint.
>
> The first method is to use watered down (thinned) paint of the same
> color as the rest of the wall and roll it onto the scrim being careful
> not to fill the holes between the threads.
>
> The second method is to use spray paint.
>
> From your experience, which method is better? Or is there a better way
> yet?
the key in either method is to avoid filling the holes. whatever way
works best for you to color just the fibers and not fill the space. I was
taught to use fabric dyes and a paintbrush to paint scrims. I'd suggest
getting some scrap pieces and trying different methods to see what you get
the best result with.
> I also remember something (from a seminar a while ago) about paint that
> could be washed out after the show was over, so we could re-use the
> scrim. I can't recall the type of paint that was mentioned. Is this
> possible? What kind of paint would that be?
Scenic (para-casein?) paint theoretically washes out....it has no
permanent binder, and must be sealed for permanent or semi-permanent
uses. HOWEVER, some pigments stain fabric without a binder. And scenic
paints are designed this way to allow the painter to rewet and reblend
dried paint, not to remove completely. I certainly wouldn't paint a new
scrim, and expect it to look new again after washing. YMMV.
HowDow
>the painting of the scrim. Both methods call for newspaper or absorbent
>material under the scrim while applying the paint.
that would be "bogus paper". it's very important. it keeps the paint from
puddling
and allows you to work much quicker.
also, take a paint stick and apply a large
safety pin to the end of the stick, the point
forming a 'hook', pointing upwards. As the
paint is drying, but still damp, walk around
and "pick up' the scrim with the pin hook to keep it from sticking to the
paper. It will shrink back to size as it drys -- you should
paint on natural, not bleached or flameproofed scrim -- unless it's too late
for
that and you've already bought the goods.
>
>The first method is to use watered down (thinned) paint of the same
>color as the rest of the wall and roll it onto the scrim being careful
>not to fill the holes between the threads.
no control. don't do this unless you're just
making an abstract color blend or are using the roller for a specific effect,
like
"bricks". Yes, don't fill the holes, but the
safety pin hook will help you with this too.
>
>The second method is to use spray paint.
>From your experience, which method is better? Or is there a better way
>yet?
spray it with a hudson type sprayer. Mask
area with a frisket of absorbent paper -
bogus paper preferably. work from light to
dark, masking the light areas as you go towards the darker ones. avoid dyes
unless you are making
a transluscent scrim (yes that's different
than simply 'scriming through' via lighting
changes. scrim, like muslin, is a fabric
and the fibers can be painted with opaque
or transluscent color - if you want transluscence, VERY thin supersaturated
works easier than dyes, but once you start in this
media, you must stay in it. any opaque
paint, such as white to cover a mistake, will
read as a dirty smudge when the light shifts to the back.
> paint that
>could be washed out after the show was over, so we could re-use the
>scrim. I can't recall the type of paint that was mentioned. Is this
>possible? What kind of paint would that be?
powder pigment in a light hide glue binder -OR -
casein, such as [very thinned out] iddings.
both will require enormous effort to wash out. I realize you're on a budget,
but, you're probably better off picking up a new
piece of scrim, or just repainting the scrim
for another show, this time with opaque
paints. The effect you want can accomplished either with transluscent or
opaque paints.
good luck. scrims are fun.
David Lee
hung vertically. We used to have the luxury of a paint frame (with a
winched full width painting gantry) until our local theatre was
refurbished, when it was cut up for scrap (the gantry not the
theatre!). :-( Now we hang our cloths in our own workshop and paint
from a tower. Hanging from the apex of our roof just about gives us
enough drop but you could hang the cloth from a roller (perhaps made
from cardboard tube?)if you don't have as much height. We generally
use thinned-down Rosco paint applied with brushes - provided you don't
try to slap it on too thickly runs shouldn't be a problem. We have
used compressed air spaying to apply large areas of colour once or
twice although I doubt that we will want to make that much mess in our
own workshop!
When you come to use the painted gauze be prepared to back it with a
black cloth until immediately before your transformation effect as
it's very difficult to keep opaque unless you can limit yourself to
side-lighting downstage of it.
David
Larry Pint <lp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<3BB8A870...@ix.netcom.com>...
Larry Pint
Larry Pint
Torrance Bell/^Gecko^
college PA dept. (California, USA) and afaik its the only paint frame in the
city!
Torrance
"David Lee" <dlee_m...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d38a4643.01100...@posting.google.com...
Rick Corley
going on I just watched, but instead of painting it on the ground we put our
scrim in an upright position (across a wood frame) and painted it that way,
and to keep the holes from getting clogged our scene painter used a
compressed air hose with a blower attachemnt to blow the wet paint out. Of
course this really only worked becasue it was on the wood frame that was
going to sit on the steel frame of the house we built. If you were just
hanging it on a pipe maybe you could put it on a frame just to paint it,
then take it off.
David Lee
Christopher Jahn
> The first method is to use watered down (thinned) paint of
> the same color as the rest of the wall and roll it onto the
> scrim being careful not to fill the holes between the
> threads.
>
> The second method is to use spray paint.
>
> From your experience, which method is better? Or is there a
> better way yet?
Sprayed paint is best to maintain translucence. If you do this,
it's also best to hang it on a stretcher. A verrrry laarrrrge
stretcher.
Painting it "down" almost always results in blocked mesh or the
backer sticking to the scrim. It CAN be done, but it's a very
painstaking process. Best to hang and stretch, if possible.
>
> I also remember something (from a seminar a while ago) about
> paint that could be washed out after the show was over, so
> we could re-use the scrim. I can't recall the type of paint
> that was mentioned. Is this possible? What kind of paint
> would that be?
Dry pigment casein - it doesn't have any binder. You mix it dry
and then mix it with hot animal glue (or whatever they've
eplaced it with) You add detergent into the mix, and IN THEORY
it washes out. I've seen this done with canvas drops, but not
scrim.
It's also tricky to work with - you get a superior color, but
you have to keep the glue warm; splatters tend to sting.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also
upside down.
To reply: xjahnATyahooDOTcom
Ronald Killmer
Call up the Department of Theatre and Dance at Mankato. They have a huge
paint fraim in there shop and have years of experience doing scrims. Class of
'70, so got in three seasions in the Theodore Paul Theatre in the PAC.
--
Ronald Killmer
Lighting Designer
Lyric Theatre Productions
Christian
> Dry pigment casein - it doesn't have any binder. You mix it dry
> and then mix it with hot animal glue (or whatever they've
> eplaced it with) You add detergent into the mix, and IN THEORY
> it washes out. I've seen this done with canvas drops, but not
> scrim.
Used to clean out scrims painted this way by stretching them on the frame
and then spraying /very/ hot water using a garden hose. Lots of it! Would
end up grayish. (But, doesn't everything) Just fine for repainting. If the
design was laid in by "inking," those lines would stay, faintly. But
usually weren't a problem for the repaint.
CTucker
NY
Larry Pint
>
> Call up the Department of Theatre and Dance at Mankato. They have a huge
> paint fraim in there shop and have years of experience doing scrims. Class of
> '70, so got in three seasions in the Theodore Paul Theatre in the PAC.
>
> --
> Ronald Killmer
> Lighting Designer
> Lyric Theatre Productions
I go down to see many of their productions. I've been working with the
high school here (New Prague) on their productions for about 7 or 8
years (this year I'm their lighting designer). Many of the kids I've
worked with on these shows have gone there and majored in theater. Gary
Ericson, who does the sound for many of Mankato's productions also did
sound for our last several shows. (Unfortunately, he's too busy to work
with us this year.) I haven't been in their new theatre yet, but I'm
looking forward to seeing it. Seen many shows at the Theodore Paul
Theatre.
Where are you working now? (ie where is Lyric Theatre Productions
located?)
Larry Pint
Ronald Killmer
Northern New York, region known as the Thousand Islands, near Canadian border.
Working with a struggling Non-Profit community theatre group with a 45 year history
of production of musicals only. We are mounting Pippen this month to open November
1st for a three night run. Doing the LD and running the show in an auditorium being
rented from the NY Office of General Services. It is a 750 seat house with nice
acoustics, but like most GP auditoriums, a wide, shallow stage with no flies to
speak of. Lighting is a challenge with only old Altman 360 6x9 elips shooting well
beyond there designed max throw together with tree banks of tri-color border lights.
No cyc lights or ground rows. Lighting system of 120 dimmers is controlled by an old
Lehigh Ovation console, non-DMX unfortunately.
So, how I got here? Retired from the Army after 22 years, last five at Fort Drum,
NY the home of the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry). Originaly from St.
Paul, I had my years at Mankato interupted by Vietnam that postponed graduation till
March, 1970 with a BS in Speech & Theatre Arts ( Tech concentration). If you check
out their web pages you will find my Directing project, *Ex-Miss Copper Queen on a
Set of Pills* listed in the production portfolio.
HowDow
>and then mix it with hot animal glue (or whatever they've
>eplaced it with) You add detergent into the mix, and IN THEORY
>it washes out. I've seen this done with canvas drops, but not
>scrim.
the above quote was a little confusing. "Dry Pigment Casein" suggests it must
have a
casein (milk based) binder. Animal glue,
also called "hide glue", is an entirely different
type of binder. All paint consists of three
parts. pigment (for color) vehicle (water or oil usually) and binder - some
type of glue to
adhere the pigment to the surface being painted.
there are as many different types of binder
as there are glues - casein and hide glue
are (were) typical in traditional theatrical painting
before vinyl (acrylics) took over.
resins or alkyds for oil paints, etc.
adding detergent to casein or hide glue
paints does indeed make them more
removable.
Christopher Jahn
I stand corrected - it's been so long since I've used either
product that I've muddled them together.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate.
To reply: xjahnATyahooDOTcom