Guys and Dolls: Questions about Arvide
Daniel P. B. Smith
Idyll of Sarah Brown," and Runyon says he is Sarah's grandfather. No
more is said about the name.
1) If Arvide Abernathy is Sarah Brown's grandfather, why don't they
have the same surname? Is the implication that she is illegitimate? Is
that why they changed him to an "uncle" in the movie?
2) Am I right in thinking that on stage and in the movie "Arvide" is
customarily pronounced as if it were an English word, with a long i,
like "carbide?"
3) What is Arvide's nationality/ethnicity? The song "More I Cannot
Wish You" sounds Irish and the character is often played with an Irish
lilt. But "Abernathy" is a Scotch surname, not Irish. "Arvide" seems
to be a Spanish surname, as in Father Martin de Arvide, a Franciscan
missionary. If Spanish, how would it be pronounced: Ar-vee-day?
4) To renege on a bet is, according to a slang dictionary, either "to
welsh" or "to welch." The script from Music Theatre International
spells it "welsh," but some people are very insistent that it be
pronounced "welch." Which is correct, and why?
David Levy
> have the same surname? Is the implication that she is illegitimate? Is
> that why they changed him to an "uncle" in the movie?
Most people have two grandfathers, one of whom shares their last name,
the other of whom (being the father of the individual's mother)
doesn't. One might guess that Arvide was Brown's maternal
grandfather. I don't think there is any implication there. The
change to uncle may have been to accommodate the relative ages of the
actors.
> 2) Am I right in thinking that on stage and in the movie "Arvide" is
> customarily pronounced as if it were an English word, with a long i,
> like "carbide?"
That's how I've always heard it.
> 3) What is Arvide's nationality/ethnicity? The song "More I Cannot
> Wish You" sounds Irish and the character is often played with an Irish
> lilt. But "Abernathy" is a Scotch surname, not Irish. "Arvide" seems
> to be a Spanish surname, as in Father Martin de Arvide, a Franciscan
> missionary. If Spanish, how would it be pronounced: Ar-vee-day?
Guys and Dolls is a fable. He's usually played as vaguely Irish but I
don't think that matters. I wouldn't read too much into the name vis
a vis ethnicity or national origin. Runyon probably crafted the name
more for how it sounds than for what ethnographers might assume from
it.
> 4) To renege on a bet is, according to a slang dictionary, either "to
> welsh" or "to welch." The script from Music Theatre International
> spells it "welsh," but some people are very insistent that it be
> pronounced "welch." Which is correct, and why?
I suspect that has as much to do with the accent of the person
speaking as anything else.
AndrewJ
> customarily pronounced as if it were an English word, with a long i,
> like "carbide?"
We did Guys and Dolls in high school and I distinctly recall the music
director pronouncing "Arvide," for reasons unknown, as "Everett."
Muggins
<dpbs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>3) What is Arvide's nationality/ethnicity? The song "More I Cannot
>Wish You" sounds Irish and the character is often played with an Irish
>lilt.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The song "More I Cannot Wish You" was originally written for Farley
Granger to sing in the movie: Roseanne McCoy (1949).
It was cut from the film, and ended up being one of Loesser's "trunk"
songs that he pulled out for Guys & Dolls to be sung "in one" for a
scene change.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."